The tryal of William Viscount Stafford for high treason in conspiring the death of the King, the extirpation of the Protestant religion, the subversion of the government, and introduction of popery into this realm : upon an impeachment by the knights, citizens, and burgesses in Parliament assembled, in the name of themselves and of all the commons of England : begun in Westminster-Hall the 30. day of November 1680, and continued until the 7. of December following, on which day judgment of high treason was given upon him : with the manner of his execution the 29. of the same month.
         Stafford, William Howard, Viscount, 1614-1680.
      
       
         
           1681
        
      
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             The tryal of William Viscount Stafford for high treason in conspiring the death of the King, the extirpation of the Protestant religion, the subversion of the government, and introduction of popery into this realm : upon an impeachment by the knights, citizens, and burgesses in Parliament assembled, in the name of themselves and of all the commons of England : begun in Westminster-Hall the 30. day of November 1680, and continued until the 7. of December following, on which day judgment of high treason was given upon him : with the manner of his execution the 29. of the same month.
             Stafford, William Howard, Viscount, 1614-1680.
          
           [2], 282 p.
           
             Reprinted by Jos. Ray ... and are to be sold by S. Helsham, Joh. North, Jos. Howes and the rest of the booksellers of Dublin,
             Dublin :
             1681.
          
           
             Errata: p. 218.
             Reproduction of original in the University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign Campus). Library.
          
        
      
    
     
       
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         eng
      
       
         
           Stafford, William Howard, -- Viscount, 1614-1680 -- Trials, litigation, etc.
           Trials (Treason) -- England.
           Popish Plot, 1678.
        
      
    
     
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           THE
           TRYAL
           OF
           WILLIAM
           VISCOUNT
           STAFFORD
           FOR
           HIGH
           TREASON
           ,
           In
           Conspiring
           the
           Death
           of
           the
           KING
           ,
           The
           Extirpation
           of
           the
           PROTESTANT
           RELIGION
           ,
           The
           Subversion
           of
           the
           GOVERNMENT
           ,
           and
           Introduction
           of
           POPERY
           into
           this
           Realm
           ,
           Upon
           an
           IMPEACHMENT
           BY
           THE
           
             Knights
             ,
             Citizens
          
           and
           Burgesses
           in
           Parliament
           assembled
           ,
           In
           the
           Name
           of
           Themselves
           and
           of
           All
           the
           COMMONS
           OF
           ENGLAND
           :
           Begun
           in
           Westminster-Hall
           ,
           the
           30.
           day
           of
           November
           1680.
           and
           continued
           until
           the
           7.
           of
           December
           following
           ,
           on
           which
           day
           Judgment
           of
           High
           Treason
           was
           given
           upon
           him
           .
        
         
           With
           the
           Manner
           of
           his
           Execution
           the
           29.
           of
           the
           same
           Month.
           
        
         
           Dublin
           ,
           Reprinted
           by
           
             Jos
             .
             Ray
          
           ,
           at
           College-Green
           ,
           and
           are
           to
           be
           sold
           by
           
             S.
             Helsham
             ,
             Job
             .
             North
             ,
             Jos
             .
             Howes
             ,
          
           and
           the
           rest
           of
           the
           Booksellers
           of
           Dublin
           .
           1681.
           
        
      
    
     
       
         
         
         
           The
           TRYAL
           of
           William
           Viscount
           Stafford
           ,
           
             Begun
             in
          
           Westminster-Hall
           ,
           November
           30.
           1680.
           
        
         
           
             The
             First
             Day
             .
          
           
             WIlliam
             Earl
             of
             
               Powis
               ,
               William
            
             Viscount
             
               Stafford
               ;
               Henry
            
             Lord
             Arundel
             of
             
               Wardour
               ,
               William
            
             Lord
             Petre
             ,
             and
             John
             Lord
             Bellasis
             ,
             having
             been
             formerly
             impeached
             in
             the
             
               House
               of
               Lords
            
             ,
             of
             
               High
               Treason
            
             ,
             and
             other
             high
             Crimes
             and
             Offences
             ,
             by
             the
             
               House
               of
               Commons
            
             ,
             in
             the
             Name
             of
             Themselves
             and
             of
             all
             the
             Commons
             of
             England
             .
          
           
             And
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             having
             sent
             a
             Message
             to
             the
             Lords
             ,
             to
             acquaint
             them
             with
             the
             Resolution
             of
             that
             House
             ,
             to
             proceed
             to
             the
             Tryal
             of
             those
             Lords
             then
             in
             the
             Tower
             ,
             and
             forthwith
             to
             begin
             with
             the
             said
             Viscount
             
               Stafford
               ▪
            
             and
             to
             desire
             their
             Lordships
             to
             appoint
             a
             convenient
             day
             for
             the
             Tryal
             of
             the
             said
             Viscount
             Stafford
             ;
             their
             Lordships
             did
             thereupon
             appoint
             the
             30.
             day
             of
             November
             ,
             1680.
             for
             his
             Trial
             ;
             And
             a
             place
             in
             
               Westminster-Hall
               ▪
            
             having
             been
             (
             for
             that
             purpose
             )
             erected
             ,
             the
             same
             was
             as
             followeth
             ,
             viz.
             Therein
             were
             both
             Seats
             and
             Wool-packs
             ,
             correspondent
             in
             all
             points
             to
             those
             in
             the
             House
             of
             Lords
             ;
             as
             also
             a
             State
             placed
             at
             the
             upper
             end
             thereof
             ,
             with
             a
             Cabinet
             for
             the
             King
             (
             and
             whom
             His
             Majesty
             should
             think
             fit
             to
             attend
             him
             there
             )
             on
             the
             right
             hand
             the
             State
             ,
             and
             the
             like
             on
             the
             left
             hand
             for
             the
             Queen
             and
             her
             Followers
             .
             As
             also
             Galleries
             over
             head
             ,
             for
             Ambassadors
             and
             others
             .
          
           
             And
             to
             the
             end
             that
             the
             Commons
             might
             be
             fitted
             with
             Seats
             upon
             this
             great
             occasion
             ,
             there
             were
             erected
             for
             them
             ,
             on
             each
             side
             divers
             Benches
             ,
             on
             several
             degrees
             ,
             extending
             to
             the
             utmost
             Walls
             of
             the
             Hall.
             
          
           
             At
             the
             lower
             end
             the
             Bar
             ,
             (
             whereunto
             the
             Prisoners
             were
             to
             be
             brought
             )
             being
             placed
             ;
             on
             the
             right
             hand
             thereof
             was
             a
             place
             raised
             about
             five
             Foot
             ,
             wherein
             the
             Witnesses
             were
             to
             stand
             ;
             and
             on
             the
             left
             hand
             a
             convenient
             Room
             for
             those
             particular
             Members
             of
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             ,
             which
             were
             to
             manage
             the
             Evidence
             .
          
           
             And
             the
             Right
             Honourable
             
               Heneage
               Lord
               Finch
               ,
               Baron
               of
               Daventry
               ,
               Lord
               High
               Chancellor
               of
               England
               ,
            
             being
             by
             His
             Majesties
             Special
             Letters
             Patent
             ,
             bearing
             date
             the
             30.
             of
             November
             ,
             1680.
             
             Constituted
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             for
             that
             present
             occasion
             ;
             upon
             Tuesday
             the
             said
             30.
             of
             November
             ,
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             was
             honorably
             attended
             from
             his
             House
             in
             Queen-street
             ,
             by
             all
             the
             Judges
             of
             His
             Majesties
             Courts
             in
             Westminster-Hall
             in
             their
             Robes
             ;
             as
             also
             by
             Garter
             Principal
             King
             of
             Arms
             ,
             in
             His
             Majesties
             Coat
             of
             Arms
             ,
             and
             the
             Gentleman
             Usher
             of
             the
             
               Black
               Rod
            
             ,
             unto
             whom
             His
             Majesty
             had
             the
             day
             before
             delivered
             the
             
               White
               Wand
            
             ,
             to
             be
             carried
             before
             his
             Lordship
             ;
             and
             about
             nine
             of
             the
             clock
             in
             the
             morning
             set
             forwards
             in
             his
             Coach
             towards
             Westminster
             ,
             sitting
             at
             the
             hinder
             end
             thereof
             ;
             Garter
             and
             the
             
             Gentleman
             who
             bore
             the
             
               Great
               Seal
            
             sitting
             both
             uncovered
             at
             the
             other
             end
             ;
             one
             of
             the
             Setjeants
             at
             Arms
             ,
             with
             his
             Mace
             being
             placed
             on
             the
             right
             side
             the
             Coach
             ,
             and
             the
             Usher
             of
             the
             
               Black
               Rod
            
             carrying
             the
             
               VVhite
               VVand
            
             on
             the
             left
             side
             ;
             the
             Judges
             and
             his
             Lordships
             Gentlemen
             in
             several
             Coaches
             following
             after
             .
          
           
             Being
             thus
             come
             to
             the
             Stairs-foot
             ascending
             to
             the
             
               House
               of
               Peers
            
             ,
             the
             Judges
             went
             up
             two
             and
             two
             together
             (
             the
             Juniors
             first
             )
             next
             the
             Lord
             High
             Steward's
             Gentlemen
             :
             after
             them
             the
             
               Serjeant
               at
               Arms
            
             with
             his
             Mace
             ,
             and
             the
             
               Seal
               bearer
            
             ;
             and
             lastly
             the
             Gentleman
             Usher
             of
             the
             
               Black
               Rod
            
             ,
             bearing
             the
             
               VVhite
               VVand
               ;
               Garter
            
             principal
             King
             of
             Arms
             ,
             going
             on
             his
             right
             hand
             .
          
           
             Then
             his
             Lordship
             alone
             ;
             his
             Train
             born
             by
             one
             of
             his
             Gentlemen
             ;
             in
             this
             manner
             entring
             the
             
               House
               of
               Peers
            
             ,
             he
             found
             all
             the
             Lords
             in
             their
             Scarlet
             Robes
             ;
             also
             the
             Bishops
             in
             their
             Rochets
             ,
             and
             took
             his
             place
             upon
             the
             uppermost
             Woolsack
             .
          
           
             This
             done
             and
             Prayers
             ended
             ,
             his
             Commission
             for
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             was
             read
             ,
             And
             then
             the
             Bishops
             receded
             ,
             and
             the
             Lords
             Adjourned
             themselves
             into
             the
             
               new
               erected
               a
               Court
            
             in
             VVestminster-Hall
             .
          
           
             All
             things
             being
             thus
             in
             readiness
             ,
             and
             a
             large
             Door-place
             broken
             through
             the
             upper
             end
             of
             VVestminster-Hall
             ,
             into
             that
             Room
             which
             was
             heretofore
             the
             
               Court
               of
               VVards
            
             .
          
           
             Their
             Lordships
             passed
             from
             their
             House
             first
             into
             the
             
               Painted
               Chamber
            
             ,
             then
             through
             that
             called
             the
             
               Court
               of
               Requests
            
             :
             Thence
             (
             turning
             on
             the
             left
             hand
             )
             into
             that
             called
             the
             
               Court
               of
               VVards
            
             ,
             then
             entred
             at
             the
             Door
             (
             so
             broke
             down
             as
             aforesaid
             )
             into
             
               VVestminster
               Hall
            
             ,
             and
             passed
             through
             a
             long
             Gallery
             ,
             (
             placed
             between
             the
             
             King's
             Bench
             and
             Chancery
             Courts
             )
             into
             this
             New
             erected
             Court
             in
             VVestminster-Hall
             ,
             and
             proceeded
             after
             this
             manner
             ,
             viz.
             
          
           
             First
             the
             Assistants
             to
             the
             Clerk
             of
             the
             Parliament
             .
          
           
             Then
             the
             Clerk
             of
             the
             Crown
             in
             Chancery
             ,
             and
             Clerk
             of
             the
             Parliament
             ;
             after
             them
             the
             Masters
             in
             Chancery
             two
             and
             two
             ,
             and
             the
             King's
             Attorney
             General
             ,
             alone
             .
          
           
             Then
             the
             Judges
             of
             all
             Courts
             in
             VVestminster-Hall
             ,
             by
             two
             and
             two
             .
          
           
             Next
             to
             them
             Noblemens
             Eldest
             Sons
             .
          
           
             After
             them
             Four
             Serjeants
             at
             Arms
             ,
             bearing
             their
             Maces
             .
          
           
             Next
             the
             Gentleman
             Usher
             of
             the
             
               Black
               Rod.
            
             
          
           
             Then
             all
             the
             Noble
             Men
             according
             to
             their
             respective
             Degrees
             ,
             the
             Juniors
             first
             ,
             viz.
             
             
               
                 Barons
                 .
              
               
                 Viscounts
                 .
              
               
                 Earls
                 .
              
            
          
           
             Great
             Officer
             ,
             
               viz.
               Lord
               Chamberlain
            
             of
             the
             Houshould
             .
          
           
             
               Marquesses
               .
            
             
               Dukes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Great
               Officers
            
             
               Lord
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               Great
               Officers
            
             
               
                 Lord
                 President
              
               of
               the
               Council
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Four
             more
             
               Serjeants
               at
               Arms
            
             bearing
             their
             Maces
             .
          
           
             After
             them
             ,
             the
             Gentleman
             carrying
             the
             
               Great
               Seal
            
             .
          
           
           
             Then
             one
             of
             His
             Majesties
             Gentlemen
             Ushers
             ,
             daily-waiters
             ,
             carrying
             the
             
               White
               Wand
               .
               Garter
            
             Principal
             King
             of
             Arms
             going
             on
             his
             right
             Hand
             .
          
           
             Then
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             alone
             ,
             having
             his
             Train
             born
             ,
             and
             after
             him
             his
             Highness
             
               Rupert
               Duke
               of
               Cumberland
            
             ,
             a
             Prince
             of
             the
             Blood.
             
          
           
             This
             done
             ,
             and
             the
             whole
             House
             of
             Peers
             having
             taken
             their
             Places
             according
             to
             their
             Degrees
             ,
             the
             Commons
             being
             also
             Seated
             on
             each
             side
             ,
             and
             the
             Managers
             in
             the
             Room
             appointed
             for
             them
             ▪
             the
             Commons
             being
             all
             bare
             ,
             The
             Lord
             High
             Steward
             (
             after
             obeysance
             made
             towards
             the
             State
             )
             took
             his
             place
             upon
             the
             uppermost
             Wool-sack
             ,
             and
             thereupon
             receiving
             the
             
               VVhite
               VVand
            
             from
             Garter
             and
             the
             Gentleman
             Usher
             upon
             their
             Knees
             ,
             delivered
             it
             to
             the
             Usher
             of
             the
             
               Black
               Rod
            
             ,
             who
             held
             it
             during
             the
             time
             of
             Sitting
             there
             ;
             Having
             so
             done
             ,
             his
             Lordship
             said
             ,
             
               Cryer
               make
               Proclamation
               of
               Silence
            
             ,
             Then
             the
             Cryer
             (
             a
             Serjeant
             at
             Arms
             )
             made
             Proclamation
             thus
             ,
             
               All
               manner
               of
               Persons
               are
               straitly
               commanded
               to
               keep
               Silence
               upon
               pain
               of
               Imprisonment
               .
               God
               save
               the
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Make
               Proclamation
               for
               the
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               to
               bring
               the
               Prisoner
               to
               the
               Bar.
               
            
             
               Cryer
               ,
               
                 Oyes
                 ,
                 Oyes
                 ,
                 Oyes
              
               ,
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               of
               London
               ,
               bring
               forth
               thy
               Prisoner
               ,
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               ,
               upon
               pain
               and
               peril
               shall
               fall
               thereon
               .
               
                 God
                 save
                 the
                 King.
                 
              
            
          
           
             Whereupon
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             brought
             the
             Prisoner
             to
             the
             Bar.
             
          
           
             
               Usher
               of
               the
               Black
               Rod.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               must
               kneel
               ,
               which
               he
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               high
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Rise
               my
               Lord.
               
            
             
               Then
               he
               Arose
               and
               stood
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               and
               the
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               spake
               to
               him
               as
               followeth
               ,
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         
                           My
                           Lord
                           Viscount
                           Stafford
                           ,
                        
                      
                       
                         THE
                         Commons
                         of
                         England
                         Assembled
                         in
                         Parliament
                         have
                         Impeach'd
                         your
                         Lordship
                         of
                         High
                         Treason
                         ;
                         and
                         you
                         are
                         brought
                         this
                         Day
                         to
                         the
                         Bar
                         to
                         be
                         Tryed
                         upon
                         that
                         Impeachment
                         :
                         You
                         are
                         not
                         Try'd
                         upon
                         the
                         Indictment
                         of
                         Treason
                         found
                         by
                         the
                         Grand
                         Jury
                         (
                         tho
                         there
                         be
                         that
                         too
                         in
                         the
                         Case
                         ,
                         )
                         But
                         you
                         are
                         Prosecuted
                         and
                         Pursued
                         by
                         the
                         Loud
                         and
                         Dreadsul
                         Complaints
                         of
                         the
                         Commons
                         :
                         and
                         are
                         to
                         be
                         Try'd
                         upon
                         the
                         Presentment
                         which
                         hath
                         been
                         made
                         by
                         the
                         Grand
                         Inquest
                         of
                         the
                         whole
                         Nation
                         .
                      
                       
                         In
                         this
                         so
                         Great
                         and
                         Weighty
                         Cause
                         ,
                         you
                         are
                         to
                         be
                         Judg'd
                         by
                         the
                         whole
                         Body
                         of
                         the
                         House
                         of
                         Peers
                         ,
                         The
                         Highest
                         and
                         the
                         Noblest
                         Court
                         in
                         This
                         ,
                         or
                         perhaps
                         in
                         any
                         other
                         part
                         of
                         the
                         Christian
                         World.
                         
                      
                       
                         Here
                         you
                         may
                         be
                         sure
                         no
                         False
                         Weights
                         or
                         Measures
                         ever
                         will
                         ,
                         or
                         can
                         be
                         found
                         ;
                         Here
                         the
                         Ballance
                         will
                         be
                         exactly
                         kept
                         ,
                         and
                         all
                         
                         the
                         Grains
                         of
                         Allowance
                         which
                         your
                         Case
                         will
                         bear
                         ,
                         will
                         certainly
                         be
                         put
                         into
                         the
                         Scales
                         .
                      
                       
                         But
                         as
                         it
                         is
                         impossible
                         for
                         my
                         Lords
                         to
                         Condemn
                         the
                         Innocent
                         ;
                         so
                         't
                         is
                         equally
                         Impossible
                         that
                         They
                         should
                         clear
                         the
                         Guilty
                         .
                      
                       
                         If
                         therefore
                         you
                         have
                         been
                         Agitated
                         by
                         a
                         Restless
                         Zeal
                         ,
                         to
                         Promote
                         that
                         which
                         you
                         call
                         the
                         
                           Catholick
                           Cause
                        
                         .
                         If
                         this
                         Zeal
                         have
                         Engaged
                         you
                         in
                         such
                         Deep
                         and
                         Black
                         Designs
                         as
                         you
                         are
                         Charged
                         with
                         ,
                         and
                         this
                         Charge
                         shall
                         be
                         fully
                         Prov'd
                         ,
                         Then
                         you
                         must
                         Expect
                         to
                         Reap
                         what
                         you
                         have
                         Sown
                         ;
                         for
                         every
                         Work
                         must
                         ,
                         and
                         ought
                         to
                         Receive
                         the
                         Wages
                         that
                         are
                         due
                         to
                         it
                         .
                      
                       
                         Hear
                         therefore
                         with
                         Patience
                         what
                         shall
                         be
                         said
                         against
                         you
                         ,
                         for
                         you
                         shall
                         have
                         full
                         Time
                         and
                         Scope
                         to
                         Answer
                         it
                         :
                         Aud
                         when
                         you
                         come
                         to
                         make
                         your
                         Defence
                         ,
                         you
                         shall
                         have
                         a
                         very
                         fair
                         and
                         equal
                         Hearing
                         ,
                      
                       
                         In
                         the
                         mean
                         time
                         ,
                         the
                         best
                         Entrance
                         upon
                         this
                         Service
                         will
                         be
                         to
                         begin
                         with
                         Reading
                         of
                         the
                         Charge
                         .
                      
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               find
               your self
               infirm
               and
               unable
               to
               stand
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               may
               have
               a
               Chair
               to
               ease
               your self
               whilst
               the
               Charge
               is
               Reading
               ,
               and
               a
               Chair
               was
               brought
               accordingly
               ,
               and
               his
               Lordship
               sate
               thereon
               .
            
          
           
             
               Clerk
               of
               the
               Parliament
               ,
            
             
               Read
               the
               Charge
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 
                   
                     Articles
                     of
                     Impeachment
                     of
                     High
                     Treason
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     high
                     Crimes
                     and
                     Offences
                     against
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     
                       Powis
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Viscount
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     and
                     Henry
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     
                       Wardour
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Lord
                     Petre
                     ,
                     and
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     now
                     Prisoners
                     in
                     the
                     Tower
                     of
                     London
                     .
                  
                   
                     1.
                     
                     THat
                     for
                     many
                     years
                     now
                     last
                     past
                     ,
                     there
                     hath
                     been
                     contrived
                     and
                     carried
                     on
                     by
                     Papists
                     ,
                     a
                     Trayterous
                     and
                     execrable
                     Conspiracy
                     and
                     Plot
                     within
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     places
                     ;
                     to
                     Alter
                     ,
                     Change
                     ,
                     and
                     Subvert
                     the
                     Ancient
                     Government
                     and
                     Laws
                     of
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     and
                     Nation
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     Suppress
                     the
                     True
                     Religion
                     therein
                     Established
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     Extirpate
                     and
                     Destroy
                     the
                     Professors
                     thereof
                     ;
                     which
                     said
                     Plot
                     and
                     Conspiracy
                     was
                     contrived
                     and
                     carried
                     on
                     in
                     divers
                     Places
                     ,
                     and
                     by
                     several
                     ways
                     and
                     means
                     ,
                     and
                     by
                     a
                     great
                     number
                     of
                     Persons
                     of
                     several
                     Qualities
                     and
                     Degrees
                     who
                     Acted
                     therein
                     ,
                     and
                     intended
                     
                     thereby
                     to
                     Execute
                     and
                     Accomplish
                     the
                     aforesaid
                     Wicked
                     and
                     Traiterous
                     Designs
                     and
                     Purposes
                     .
                  
                   
                     That
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     
                       Powis
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Viscount
                     
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       Henry
                    
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     
                       Wardour
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Lord
                     Petre
                     ,
                     and
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     ,
                     together
                     with
                     
                       Philip
                       Howard
                    
                     ,
                     commonly
                     called
                     
                       Cardinal
                       of
                       Norfolk
                       ,
                       Thomas
                       White
                    
                     alias
                     Whitebread
                     ,
                     commonly
                     called
                     
                       Provincial
                       of
                       the
                       Jesuits
                       in
                       England
                       ,
                       Richard
                       Strange
                       ,
                    
                     lately
                     called
                     
                       Provincial
                       of
                       the
                       Jesuits
                       in
                       England
                       Vincent
                    
                     commonly
                     called
                     
                       Provincial
                       of
                       the
                       Dominicans
                       in
                       England
                       .
                       James
                       Corker
                       ,
                    
                     commonly
                     called
                     
                       President
                       of
                       the
                       Benedictines
                    
                     .
                     Sir
                     
                       John
                       Warner
                    
                     ,
                     alias
                     Clare
                     Baronet
                     ,
                     
                       William
                       Harcourt
                       ,
                       John
                       Kenis
                       ,
                       Nicholas
                       Blundel
                       ,
                       —
                       Poole
                       ,
                       Edward
                       Mico
                       ,
                       Thomas
                       Bedingfield
                    
                     alias
                     
                       Benefield
                       ,
                       Basil
                       Langworth
                       ,
                       Charles
                       Peters
                       ,
                       Richard
                       Peters
                       ,
                       John
                       Conyers
                       ,
                    
                     Sir
                     
                       George
                       Wakeman
                       ,
                       Thomas
                       Fenwick
                       ,
                       Dominick
                       Kelly
                       ,
                       Fitzgerald
                       ,
                       Evers
                       ,
                    
                     Sir
                     
                       Thomas
                       Preston
                       ,
                       William
                       Lovel
                    
                     Jesuits
                     ,
                     Lord
                     
                       Baltamore
                       ,
                       John
                       Carrel
                       ,
                       John
                       Townely
                       ,
                       Richard
                       Langhorn
                       ,
                       William
                       Fogarty
                       ,
                       Thomas
                       Penny
                       ,
                       Matthew
                       Medbourn
                       ,
                       Edward
                       Coleman
                       ,
                       William
                       Ireland
                       ,
                       John
                       Grove
                       ,
                       Thomas
                       Pickering
                       ,
                       John
                       Smith
                    
                     ;
                     and
                     divers
                     other
                     Jesuits
                     ,
                     Priests
                     ,
                     Fryers
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     Persons
                     ,
                     as
                     false
                     Traytors
                     to
                     his
                     Majesty
                     ,
                     and
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     ,
                     within
                     the
                     time
                     aforesaid
                     ,
                     have
                     Traiterously
                     Consulted
                     ,
                     Contrived
                     ,
                     and
                     Acted
                     to
                     ,
                     and
                     for
                     the
                     accomplishing
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     wicked
                     ,
                     pernitious
                     and
                     Traiterous
                     Designs
                     ,
                     and
                     for
                     that
                     end
                     did
                     most
                     wickedly
                     ,
                     and
                     Traiterously
                     agree
                     ,
                     Conspire
                     ,
                     and
                     resolve
                     to
                     Imprison
                     ,
                     Depose
                     and
                     Murder
                     his
                     Sacred
                     Majesty
                     ;
                     and
                     to
                     deprive
                     him
                     of
                     his
                     Royal
                     State
                     ,
                     Crown
                     and
                     Dignity
                     ,
                     and
                     by
                     malicious
                     and
                     advised
                     speaking
                     ,
                     writing
                     ,
                     and
                     otherwise
                     ,
                     declared
                     such
                     their
                     Purposes
                     and
                     Intentions
                     .
                  
                   
                     And
                     also
                     to
                     subject
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     and
                     Nation
                     to
                     the
                     Pope
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     his
                     Tyrannical
                     Government
                     .
                  
                   
                     And
                     to
                     seize
                     and
                     share
                     amongst
                     themselves
                     the
                     Estates
                     and
                     Inheritances
                     of
                     his
                     Majesties
                     Protestant
                     Subjects
                     .
                  
                   
                     And
                     to
                     Erect
                     and
                     Restore
                     Abbeys
                     ,
                     Monasteries
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     Convents
                     and
                     Societies
                     ,
                     which
                     have
                     been
                     long
                     since
                     by
                     the
                     Laws
                     of
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     suppressed
                     for
                     their
                     Superstition
                     and
                     Idolatry
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     deliver
                     up
                     and
                     restore
                     to
                     them
                     the
                     Lands
                     and
                     Possessions
                     now
                     vested
                     in
                     his
                     Majesty
                     and
                     his
                     Subjects
                     ,
                     by
                     the
                     Laws
                     and
                     Statutes
                     of
                     this
                     Realm
                     :
                     
                     And
                     also
                     to
                     Found
                     and
                     Erect
                     new
                     Monasteries
                     and
                     Convents
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     remove
                     and
                     deprive
                     all
                     Protestant
                     Bishops
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     Ecclesiastical
                     persons
                     from
                     their
                     Offices
                     ,
                     Benefices
                     and
                     Preferments
                     .
                  
                   
                     And
                     by
                     this
                     means
                     to
                     destroy
                     his
                     Majesties
                     Person
                     ,
                     extirpate
                     the
                     Protestant
                     Religion
                     ,
                     overthrow
                     the
                     Rights
                     ,
                     Liberties
                     ,
                     and
                     Properties
                     of
                     all
                     his
                     Majesties
                     good
                     Subjects
                     ,
                     Subvert
                     the
                     lawful
                     Government
                     of
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     ,
                     and
                     subject
                     the
                     same
                     to
                     the
                     Tyranny
                     of
                     the
                     See
                     of
                     Rome
                     .
                  
                   
                     3.
                     
                     That
                     the
                     said
                     Conspirators
                     and
                     their
                     Complices
                     and
                     Confederates
                     ,
                     Traiterously
                     had
                     and
                     held
                     several
                     Meetings
                     ,
                     Assemblies
                     ,
                     and
                     Consultations
                     ,
                     wherein
                     it
                     was
                     Contrived
                     and
                     Designed
                     among
                     them
                     what
                     means
                     should
                     be
                     used
                     ,
                     and
                     what
                     Persons
                     and
                     Instruments
                     should
                     be
                     Employed
                     to
                     Murder
                     his
                     Majesty
                     ;
                     And
                     did
                     then
                     and
                     there
                     resolve
                     to
                     effect
                     it
                     by
                     Poisoning
                     ,
                     Shooting
                     ,
                     Stabbing
                     ,
                     or
                     some
                     such
                     like
                     ways
                     and
                     means
                     ,
                     and
                     offered
                     Rewards
                     and
                     Promises
                     of
                     advantage
                     to
                     several
                     persons
                     to
                     execute
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     hired
                     and
                     imployed
                     several
                     wicked
                     persons
                     to
                     go
                     to
                     Windsor
                     and
                     other
                     places
                     where
                     his
                     Majesty
                     did
                     reside
                     ,
                     to
                     murder
                     and
                     destroy
                     his
                     Majesty
                     ,
                     which
                     said
                     persons
                     or
                     some
                     of
                     them
                     accepted
                     such
                     Rewards
                     ,
                     and
                     undertook
                     the
                     perpetrating
                     thereof
                     ,
                     and
                     did
                     actually
                     go
                     to
                     the
                     said
                     Places
                     for
                     that
                     end
                     and
                     purpose
                     .
                  
                   
                     4.
                     
                     That
                     the
                     said
                     Conspirators
                     the
                     better
                     to
                     compass
                     their
                     Trayterous
                     Designs
                     ,
                     have
                     Consulted
                     to
                     Raise
                     ,
                     and
                     have
                     procured
                     and
                     raised
                     Men
                     ,
                     Money
                     ,
                     Horses
                     ,
                     Arms
                     and
                     Ammunition
                     ,
                     and
                     also
                     have
                     made
                     Application
                     to
                     ,
                     and
                     Treated
                     and
                     Corresponded
                     with
                     the
                     Pope
                     ,
                     his
                     Cardinals
                     ,
                     Nuncioes
                     and
                     Agents
                     ,
                     and
                     with
                     other
                     Forreign
                     Ministers
                     and
                     Persons
                     to
                     raise
                     and
                     obtain
                     Supplies
                     of
                     Men
                     ,
                     Money
                     ,
                     Arms
                     and
                     Ammunition
                     therewith
                     to
                     make
                     ,
                     levy
                     and
                     raise
                     War
                     ,
                     Rebellion
                     and
                     Tumults
                     within
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     Invade
                     the
                     same
                     with
                     Forreign
                     Forces
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     surprize
                     ,
                     seize
                     ,
                     and
                     destroy
                     His
                     Majesties
                     Navy
                     ,
                     Forts
                     ,
                     Magazines
                     and
                     places
                     of
                     strength
                     within
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     ,
                     whereupon
                     the
                     Calamities
                     of
                     War
                     ,
                     Murders
                     of
                     Innocent
                     Subjects
                     ,
                     Men
                     ,
                     Women
                     and
                     Children
                     ,
                     Burnings
                     ,
                     Rapines
                     ,
                     Devastations
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     dreadful
                     Miseries
                     and
                     Mischiefs
                     must
                     inevitably
                     have
                     ensued
                     to
                     the
                     ruine
                     and
                     destruction
                     of
                     this
                     Nation
                     .
                  
                   
                     5.
                     
                     And
                     the
                     said
                     Conspirators
                     have
                     procured
                     and
                     accepted
                     ,
                     and
                     delivered
                     out
                     several
                     Instruments
                     ,
                     Commissions
                     and
                     Powers
                     made
                     and
                     granted
                     by
                     ,
                     or
                     under
                     the
                     Pope
                     ,
                     or
                     other
                     Vnlawful
                     and
                     Vsurped
                     Authority
                     ,
                     to
                     raise
                     and
                     dispose
                     of
                     Men
                     ,
                     Moneys
                     ,
                     Arms
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     things
                     
                     necessary
                     for
                     their
                     wicked
                     and
                     traiterous
                     Designs
                     ,
                     and
                     namely
                     a
                     Commission
                     for
                     the
                     said
                     Henry
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     to
                     be
                     Lord
                     Chancellor
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     another
                     Commission
                     to
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     Powis
                     to
                     be
                     Lord
                     Treasurer
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     another
                     Commission
                     to
                     the
                     said
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     to
                     be
                     General
                     of
                     the
                     Army
                     to
                     be
                     raised
                     ,
                     another
                     Commission
                     to
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Lord
                     Petre
                     to
                     be
                     Lieutenant
                     General
                     of
                     the
                     same
                     Army
                     ,
                     and
                     a
                     Power
                     for
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Viscount
                     Stafford
                     to
                     be
                     Paymaster
                     of
                     the
                     Army
                     .
                  
                   
                     6.
                     
                     That
                     in
                     order
                     to
                     encourage
                     themselves
                     in
                     Prosecuting
                     their
                     said
                     wicked
                     Plots
                     ,
                     Conspiracies
                     and
                     Treasons
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     hide
                     and
                     hinder
                     the
                     Discovery
                     of
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     secure
                     themselves
                     from
                     Justice
                     and
                     Punishment
                     ,
                     the
                     Conspirators
                     aforesaid
                     ,
                     their
                     Complices
                     and
                     Confederates
                     ,
                     have
                     used
                     many
                     wicked
                     and
                     diabolical
                     Practices
                     ,
                     
                       (
                       viz.
                    
                     )
                     They
                     did
                     cause
                     their
                     Priests
                     to
                     Administer
                     to
                     the
                     said
                     Conspirators
                     an
                     Oath
                     of
                     Secrecy
                     together
                     with
                     their
                     Sacrament
                     ,
                     and
                     also
                     did
                     cause
                     their
                     said
                     Priests
                     upon
                     Confessions
                     to
                     give
                     their
                     Absolutions
                     upon
                     Condition
                     that
                     they
                     should
                     conceal
                     the
                     said
                     Conspiracy
                     .
                  
                   
                     And
                     when
                     about
                     the
                     Month
                     of
                     September
                     last
                     Sir
                     
                       Edmundbury
                       Godfrey
                    
                     a
                     Justice
                     of
                     Peace
                     ,
                     had
                     according
                     to
                     the
                     Duty
                     of
                     his
                     Oath
                     and
                     Office
                     taken
                     several
                     Examinations
                     &
                     Informations
                     concerning
                     the
                     said
                     Conspiracy
                     and
                     Plot
                     ,
                     the
                     said
                     Conspirators
                     or
                     some
                     of
                     them
                     by
                     Advice
                     ,
                     Assent
                     ,
                     Counsel
                     and
                     Instigation
                     of
                     the
                     rest
                     ,
                     did
                     incite
                     and
                     procure
                     divers
                     Persons
                     to
                     lie
                     in
                     wait
                     and
                     pursue
                     the
                     said
                     Sir
                     
                       Edmundbury
                       Godfrey
                    
                     divers
                     days
                     ,
                     with
                     intent
                     to
                     Murder
                     him
                     ,
                     which
                     at
                     last
                     was
                     perpetrated
                     and
                     effected
                     by
                     them
                     ,
                     (
                     for
                     which
                     said
                     horrid
                     Crimes
                     and
                     Offences
                     
                       Robert
                       Green
                       ,
                       Henry
                       Berry
                    
                     ,
                     and
                     
                       Lawrence
                       Hill
                    
                     have
                     since
                     been
                     Attainted
                     ,
                     and
                     
                       Dominick
                       Kelly
                    
                     and
                     Girald
                     and
                     others
                     are
                     fled
                     for
                     the
                     same
                     )
                     After
                     which
                     Murder
                     ,
                     and
                     before
                     the
                     Body
                     was
                     found
                     ,
                     or
                     the
                     Murder
                     known
                     to
                     any
                     but
                     the
                     Complices
                     therein
                     ,
                     the
                     said
                     Persons
                     falsly
                     gave
                     out
                     ,
                     that
                     he
                     was
                     alive
                     and
                     privately
                     Married
                     ;
                     And
                     after
                     the
                     Body
                     found
                     ,
                     dispersed
                     a
                     false
                     and
                     malitious
                     Report
                     ,
                     That
                     he
                     had
                     Murdered
                     himself
                     .
                  
                   
                     Which
                     said
                     Murther
                     was
                     committed
                     with
                     design
                     to
                     stifle
                     and
                     suppress
                     the
                     Evidence
                     he
                     had
                     taken
                     and
                     had
                     knowledge
                     of
                     ,
                     and
                     discourage
                     and
                     deter
                     Magistrates
                     and
                     Others
                     ,
                     from
                     Acting
                     in
                     further
                     Discovery
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Conspiracy
                     and
                     Plot
                     :
                     For
                     which
                     end
                     also
                     ,
                     the
                     said
                     Sir
                     
                       Edmundbury
                       Godfrey
                    
                     ,
                     while
                     he
                     was
                     alive
                     ,
                     was
                     by
                     them
                     ,
                     their
                     Complices
                     
                     and
                     Favourers
                     ,
                     threatned
                     and
                     discouraged
                     in
                     his
                     proceedings
                     about
                     the
                     same
                     .
                  
                   
                     7.
                     
                     And
                     of
                     their
                     further
                     Malice
                     ,
                     they
                     have
                     wickedly
                     contrived
                     ,
                     by
                     many
                     false
                     Suggestions
                     ,
                     to
                     lay
                     the
                     Imputation
                     and
                     Guilt
                     of
                     the
                     aforesaid
                     Horrid
                     and
                     Detestable
                     Crimes
                     upon
                     the
                     Protestants
                     ;
                     that
                     so
                     thereby
                     they
                     might
                     escape
                     the
                     Punishments
                     they
                     have
                     justly
                     deserved
                     ,
                     and
                     expose
                     the
                     Protestants
                     to
                     great
                     Scandal
                     ,
                     and
                     subject
                     them
                     to
                     Persecution
                     and
                     Oppression
                     in
                     all
                     Kingdoms
                     and
                     Countries
                     ,
                     where
                     the
                     Romish
                     Religion
                     is
                     received
                     and
                     professed
                     .
                  
                   
                     All
                     which
                     Treasons
                     ,
                     Crimes
                     and
                     Offences
                     above
                     mentioned
                     ,
                     were
                     Contrived
                     ,
                     Committed
                     ,
                     Perpetrated
                     ,
                     Acted
                     and
                     done
                     by
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     
                       Powis
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Viscount
                     
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Lord
                     
                       Petre
                       ,
                       Henry
                    
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     ,
                     and
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     the
                     Conspirators
                     aforesaid
                     ,
                     against
                     our
                     Sovereign
                     Lord
                     the
                     KING
                     ,
                     His
                     Crown
                     and
                     Dignity
                     ,
                     and
                     against
                     the
                     Laws
                     and
                     Sta
                     ▪
                     tutes
                     of
                     this
                     Kingdom
                     .
                  
                   
                     Of
                     all
                     which
                     Treasons
                     ,
                     Crimes
                     ,
                     and
                     Offences
                     ,
                     the
                     Knights
                     ,
                     Citizens
                     and
                     Burgesses
                     in
                     Parliament
                     Assembled
                     ,
                     do
                     in
                     the
                     Name
                     of
                     themselves
                     ,
                     and
                     of
                     all
                     the
                     Commons
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     Impeach
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     
                       Powis
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Viscount
                     
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Lord
                     
                       Petre
                       ,
                       Henry
                    
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     ,
                     and
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     ,
                     and
                     every
                     of
                     them
                     .
                  
                   
                     And
                     the
                     said
                     Commons
                     by
                     protestation
                     ,
                     saving
                     to
                     themselves
                     the
                     liberty
                     of
                     exhibiting
                     at
                     any
                     time
                     hereafter
                     ,
                     any
                     other
                     Accusations
                     or
                     Impeachments
                     ,
                     against
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     
                       Powis
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Viscount
                     
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Lord
                     
                       Petre
                       ,
                       Henry
                    
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     ,
                     and
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     ,
                     and
                     every
                     of
                     them
                     ;
                     And
                     also
                     of
                     replying
                     to
                     the
                     Answers
                     ,
                     which
                     they
                     ,
                     and
                     every
                     of
                     them
                     shall
                     make
                     to
                     the
                     Premises
                     ,
                     or
                     any
                     of
                     them
                     ;
                     or
                     to
                     any
                     other
                     Accusation
                     or
                     Impeachment
                     ,
                     which
                     shall
                     be
                     by
                     them
                     Exhibited
                     (
                     as
                     the
                     cause
                     according
                     to
                     Course
                     and
                     Proceedings
                     of
                     Parliament
                     shall
                     require
                     )
                     do
                     pray
                     that
                     the
                     said
                     William
                     Earl
                     of
                     
                       Powis
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Viscount
                     
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       William
                    
                     Lord
                     
                       Petre
                       ,
                       Henry
                    
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     ,
                     and
                     John
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     ,
                     and
                     every
                     of
                     them
                     ,
                     be
                     put
                     to
                     Answer
                     all
                     ,
                     and
                     every
                     the
                     Premises
                     ;
                     And
                     that
                     such
                     Proceedings
                     ,
                     Examinations
                     ,
                     Trials
                     and
                     Judgments
                     ,
                     may
                     be
                     upon
                     them
                     ,
                     and
                     every
                     of
                     them
                     ,
                     had
                     and
                     used
                     ,
                     as
                     shall
                     be
                     agreeable
                     to
                     L●v
                     and
                     Justice
                     ,
                     and
                     Course
                     of
                     Parliament
                     .
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
             
               
                 
                   
                     The
                     Humble
                     Answer
                     of
                     William
                     Viscount
                     of
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     now
                     Prisoner
                     in
                     His
                     Majesties
                     Tower
                     of
                     London
                     ,
                     to
                     the
                     Impeachment
                     of
                     High
                     Treason
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     high
                     Crimes
                     and
                     Misdemeanors
                     ,
                     exhibited
                     against
                     him
                     and
                     others
                     ,
                     to
                     the
                     Right
                     Honorable
                     the
                     Lords
                     Spiritual
                     and
                     Temporal
                     in
                     Parliament
                     ,
                     by
                     the
                     Knights
                     ,
                     Citizens
                     and
                     Burgesses
                     ,
                     in
                     Parliament
                     assembled
                     ,
                     in
                     the
                     name
                     of
                     themselves
                     and
                     of
                     the
                     Commons
                     of
                     England
                     .
                  
                   
                     THe
                     said
                     Viscount
                     saving
                     to
                     himself
                     all
                     advantage
                     and
                     benefit
                     of
                     Exceptions
                     to
                     the
                     generality
                     ,
                     incertainty
                     and
                     insufficiency
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Impeachment
                     ,
                     most
                     humbly
                     beseeching
                     their
                     Lordships
                     thereof
                     to
                     take
                     due
                     notice
                     ,
                     and
                     thereunto
                     at
                     all
                     times
                     ,
                     to
                     have
                     a
                     just
                     regard
                     ;
                     He
                     answereth
                     and
                     saith
                     ,
                     That
                     he
                     is
                     not
                     Guilty
                     of
                     all
                     or
                     any
                     of
                     the
                     Offences
                     charged
                     against
                     him
                     by
                     the
                     said
                     Impeachment
                     ,
                     and
                     for
                     his
                     Tryal
                     humbly
                     and
                     willingly
                     putteth
                     himself
                     upon
                     his
                     Peers
                     :
                     no
                     ways
                     doubting
                     but
                     that
                     by
                     the
                     Grace
                     of
                     God
                     ,
                     and
                     their
                     Lordships
                     impartial
                     Justice
                     ,
                     he
                     shall
                     make
                     his
                     Innocence
                     appear
                     .
                     All
                     which
                     he
                     most
                     humbly
                     submitteth
                     unto
                     their
                     Lordships
                     further
                     Consideration
                     .
                  
                   
                     
                       Stafford
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               be
               pleased
               to
               proceed
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Mr.
             Serjeant
             Maynard
             one
             of
             the
             Committee
             appointed
             to
             manage
             the
             Evidence
             ,
             began
             as
             followeth
             ;
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         My
                         Lords
                         ,
                      
                    
                     
                       MAy
                       it
                       please
                       your
                       Lordships
                       :
                       By
                       the
                       Command
                       of
                       the
                       House
                       of
                       Commons
                       ,
                       who
                       have
                       imposed
                       upon
                       Us
                       this
                       Task
                       ,
                       we
                       are
                       here
                       to
                       Prosecute
                       this
                       great
                       Charge
                       against
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       the
                       Lord
                       at
                       the
                       Bar.
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       There
                       are
                       two
                       Parts
                       that
                       are
                       in
                       this
                       great
                       Charge
                       ,
                       there
                       is
                       a
                       General
                       ,
                       which
                       is
                       the
                       Subversion
                       of
                       the
                       whole
                       Nation
                       ,
                       the
                       King
                       Himself
                       to
                       be
                       Murdered
                       ,
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Religion
                       to
                       be
                       Suppressed
                       ,
                       War
                       to
                       be
                       introduced
                       ,
                       and
                       those
                       other
                       things
                       that
                       are
                       expressed
                       in
                       the
                       Articles
                       .
                       This
                       General
                       is
                       charged
                       in
                       particular
                       upon
                       this
                       Lord
                       ;
                       And
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       it
                       was
                       in
                       consideration
                       how
                       far
                       it
                       was
                       fit
                       to
                       meddle
                       with
                       this
                       General
                       at
                       this
                       particular
                       Tryal
                       .
                       For
                       if
                       this
                       Lord
                       be
                       guilty
                       of
                       such
                       Crimes
                       ,
                       it
                       will
                       prove
                       well
                       enough
                       that
                       there
                       was
                       such
                       a
                       Plot
                       ;
                       but
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       withall
                       we
                       did
                       consider
                       when
                       the
                       first
                       Discovery
                       of
                       this
                       Plot
                       was
                       made
                       ,
                       how
                       
                       afterwards
                       it
                       took
                       cold
                       ,
                       how
                       rumors
                       were
                       raised
                       against
                       it
                       ,
                       how
                       there
                       were
                       endeavours
                       to
                       suppress
                       the
                       belief
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       and
                       therefore
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       do
                       conceive
                       that
                       it
                       is
                       fit
                       we
                       should
                       first
                       settle
                       that
                       ,
                       that
                       there
                       was
                       a
                       general
                       Plot
                       ,
                       a
                       Plot
                       of
                       such
                       a
                       Nature
                       as
                       the
                       Articles
                       express
                       .
                    
                     
                       Some
                       Objections
                       we
                       thought
                       there
                       might
                       be
                       raised
                       ,
                       because
                       it
                       hath
                       been
                       so
                       long
                       in
                       the
                       World
                       ,
                       some
                       years
                       now
                       since
                       the
                       Discovery
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       some
                       persons
                       ,
                       that
                       is
                       some
                       ten
                       or
                       eleven
                       Prosecuted
                       and
                       Atatinted
                       for
                       it
                       ,
                       and
                       therefore
                       that
                       might
                       have
                       been
                       satisfaction
                       enough
                       that
                       such
                       a
                       Plot
                       there
                       was
                       ;
                       besides
                       ,
                       that
                       there
                       have
                       been
                       publick
                       Declarations
                       of
                       the
                       Particulars
                       to
                       the
                       World
                       ;
                       But
                       being
                       now
                       to
                       proceed
                       before
                       your
                       Lordships
                       in
                       a
                       judicial
                       way
                       ;
                       We
                       did
                       think
                       fit
                       ,
                       and
                       we
                       hope
                       your
                       Lordships
                       will
                       approve
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       to
                       spend
                       some
                       time
                       in
                       the
                       Proof
                       of
                       the
                       general
                       Plot
                       ,
                       which
                       we
                       hope
                       will
                       be
                       to
                       the
                       satisfaction
                       of
                       your
                       Lordships
                       and
                       the
                       whole
                       World
                       ;
                       for
                       we
                       do
                       not
                       think
                       that
                       England
                       only
                       looks
                       into
                       this
                       days
                       Tryal
                       ,
                       but
                       the
                       whole
                       World
                       one
                       way
                       or
                       other
                       ,
                       the
                       whole
                       Christian
                       World
                       is
                       concerned
                       in
                       it
                       .
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       after
                       the
                       Publication
                       of
                       these
                       things
                       ,
                       (
                       which
                       were
                       not
                       judicial
                       )
                       how
                       far
                       your
                       Lordships
                       will
                       believe
                       them
                       as
                       Judges
                       ,
                       we
                       know
                       not
                       ,
                       we
                       will
                       prove
                       it
                       now
                       ,
                       that
                       their
                       Policies
                       and
                       Contrivances
                       may
                       be
                       laid
                       open
                       to
                       the
                       World
                       ;
                       And
                       first
                       we
                       offer
                       it
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ,
                       because
                       we
                       have
                       made
                       it
                       part
                       of
                       the
                       Charge
                       :
                       And
                       secondly
                       we
                       shall
                       do
                       it
                       ,
                       because
                       we
                       think
                       your
                       Lordships
                       are
                       not
                       obliged
                       to
                       believe
                       things
                       that
                       are
                       in
                       Print
                       ,
                       till
                       we
                       prove
                       them
                       by
                       Witnesses
                       judicially
                       before
                       you
                       .
                       But
                       the
                       main
                       Reason
                       why
                       we
                       do
                       it
                       is
                       ,
                       because
                       we
                       would
                       touch
                       upon
                       those
                       Endeavours
                       that
                       have
                       been
                       used
                       to
                       make
                       this
                       seem
                       as
                       if
                       it
                       were
                       a
                       kind
                       of
                       State
                       Plot
                       ,
                       I
                       know
                       not
                       what
                       to
                       call
                       ●t
                       ,
                       a
                       Chimaera
                       ,
                       an
                       Imagination
                       ,
                       and
                       not
                       a
                       real
                       thing
                       .
                       This
                       they
                       laboured
                       many
                       ways
                       to
                       effect
                       ,
                       but
                       we
                       shall
                       prove
                       that
                       it
                       is
                       a
                       very
                       real
                       and
                       a
                       very
                       true
                       one
                       ,
                    
                     
                       When
                       that
                       Oats
                       first
                       made
                       a
                       Discovery
                       ,
                       it
                       seems
                       it
                       had
                       not
                       that
                       weight
                       ,
                       that
                       we
                       think
                       now
                       it
                       will
                       clearly
                       have
                       with
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ;
                       and
                       had
                       not
                       the
                       Murder
                       of
                       Sir
                       
                         Edmundbury
                         Godfrey
                      
                       followed
                       in
                       the
                       Neck
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       the
                       World
                       as
                       it
                       was
                       asleep
                       would
                       have
                       lain
                       so
                       ,
                       but
                       that
                       awaked
                       us
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       it
                       fell
                       out
                       in
                       this
                       Case
                       as
                       it
                       did
                       in
                       another
                       ,
                       when
                       Cateline
                       the
                       Traytor
                       was
                       a
                       great
                       way
                       off
                       Rome
                       ,
                       and
                       four
                       other
                       Lords
                       with
                       him
                       ,
                       
                         Cassius
                         ,
                         Cethegus
                      
                       and
                       others
                       ,
                       five
                       in
                       all
                       ,
                       it
                       came
                       to
                       pass
                       ,
                       that
                       as
                       the
                       great
                       Orator
                       that
                       was
                       at
                       that
                       time
                       said
                       ,
                       
                         Many
                         were
                         so
                         ignorant
                         that
                         they
                         would
                         not
                         think
                         it
                         ,
                         many
                         were
                         so
                         unwise
                         they
                         would
                         not
                         believe
                         it
                         ;
                         some
                         so
                         ill
                         that
                         they
                         would
                         favour
                         it
                         ;
                         &
                         some
                         so
                         much
                         worse
                         that
                         they
                         did
                         Foster
                         it
                         :
                         but
                         all
                         of
                         them
                         in
                         not
                         believing
                         it
                         ,
                         gave
                         strength
                         to
                         the
                         Conspiracy
                         &
                         the
                         Treason
                         .
                      
                       And
                       so
                       it
                       did
                       here
                       ,
                       for
                       we
                       look
                       not
                       upon
                       our selves
                       as
                       discharg'd
                       from
                       the
                       Treason
                       when
                       Discover'd
                       ,
                       but
                       when
                       Prevented
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       another
                       Reason
                       to
                       induce
                       us
                       into
                       the
                       Proof
                       of
                       the
                       main
                       Plot
                       is
                       this
                       ,
                       We
                       do
                       not
                       look
                       upon
                       it
                       as
                       a
                       particular
                       Offence
                       ,
                       as
                       if
                       one
                       Lord
                       was
                       only
                       to
                       be
                       questioned
                       and
                       appear
                       before
                       your
                       Lordships
                       judicially
                       for
                       it
                       ;
                       he
                       is
                       indeed
                       only
                       before
                       you
                       at
                       this
                       time
                       to
                       receive
                       his
                       Tryal
                       ,
                       and
                       your
                       Judgment
                       :
                       But
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       this
                       is
                       a
                       
                       Treason
                       of
                       a
                       Faction
                       ,
                       and
                       of
                       a
                       general
                       Party
                       in
                       the
                       Nation
                       ,
                       't
                       is
                       not
                       this
                       or
                       that
                       Lord
                       ,
                       but
                       a
                       great
                       number
                       ;
                       't
                       is
                       not
                       this
                       or
                       that
                       Lord
                       that
                       is
                       mentioned
                       in
                       the
                       Articles
                       ,
                       but
                       the
                       Conspiracy
                       is
                       of
                       a
                       great
                       Faction
                       .
                       This
                       we
                       do
                       think
                       ,
                       and
                       this
                       makes
                       us
                       so
                       earnest
                       to
                       press
                       the
                       general
                       before
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ,
                       that
                       we
                       may
                       give
                       satisfaction
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       and
                       the
                       World
                       what
                       this
                       Plot
                       hath
                       been
                       ;
                       and
                       how
                       carried
                       on
                       every
                       where
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       The
                       Consequence
                       of
                       that
                       is
                       very
                       great
                       ;
                       for
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       if
                       there
                       were
                       a
                       general
                       Design
                       ,
                       and
                       a
                       general
                       Plot
                       ,
                       as
                       clearly
                       there
                       was
                       ,
                       for
                       some
                       were
                       to
                       act
                       in
                       Spain
                       ,
                       and
                       some
                       in
                       France
                       ,
                       some
                       in
                       other
                       places
                       ,
                       some
                       in
                       
                         Ireland
                         ,
                         Scotland
                      
                       and
                       England
                       ;
                       and
                       a
                       great
                       number
                       of
                       Jesuits
                       ,
                       (
                       we
                       have
                       a
                       matter
                       of
                       Thirty
                       in
                       Chase
                       about
                       this
                       business
                       :
                       )
                       I
                       say
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       if
                       it
                       be
                       so
                       ,
                       if
                       one
                       Action
                       be
                       in
                       one
                       place
                       ,
                       and
                       another
                       in
                       another
                       ,
                       yet
                       if
                       there
                       be
                       a
                       common
                       Consent
                       to
                       accomplish
                       this
                       Plot
                       ,
                       then
                       what
                       the
                       one
                       does
                       ,
                       is
                       the
                       Act
                       of
                       All
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Act
                       of
                       All
                       is
                       the
                       Act
                       of
                       every
                       one
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       The
                       Persons
                       were
                       many
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Places
                       and
                       Times
                       many
                       they
                       acted
                       in
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Designs
                       which
                       they
                       were
                       to
                       accomplish
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       means
                       wherewith
                       they
                       were
                       to
                       accomplish
                       them
                       were
                       many
                       too
                       :
                       Great
                       ,
                       and
                       wicked
                       were
                       their
                       Designs
                       to
                       destroy
                       our
                       King
                       ,
                       to
                       take
                       him
                       out
                       of
                       the
                       World
                       ;
                       and
                       why
                       ?
                       upon
                       hopes
                       of
                       better
                       times
                       to
                       them
                       under
                       him
                       that
                       should
                       succeed
                       him
                       .
                       Another
                       part
                       of
                       the
                       Design
                       was
                       ,
                       to
                       destroy
                       ,
                       not
                       this
                       or
                       that
                       man
                       that
                       stood
                       in
                       their
                       way
                       ,
                       but
                       the
                       whole
                       Body
                       of
                       the
                       Protestants
                       here
                       in
                       England
                       ;
                       not
                       a
                       Murder
                       ,
                       but
                       a
                       Massacre
                       and
                       a
                       Slaughter
                       of
                       all
                       whosoever
                       they
                       were
                       that
                       came
                       near
                       them
                       ,
                       and
                       none
                       were
                       to
                       escape
                       ,
                       for
                       if
                       any
                       meant
                       to
                       flee
                       ,
                       they
                       would
                       be
                       sure
                       to
                       cut
                       them
                       off
                       ;
                       nay
                       ,
                       not
                       only
                       to
                       destroy
                       our
                       King
                       ,
                       though
                       that
                       be
                       the
                       greatest
                       Offence
                       that
                       our
                       Law
                       can
                       take
                       hold
                       off
                       ,
                       but
                       to
                       destroy
                       our
                       Religion
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       destroy
                       us
                       ,
                       because
                       of
                       our
                       Religon
                       .
                    
                     
                       To
                       accomplish
                       this
                       (
                       that
                       we
                       may
                       open
                       the
                       generals
                       of
                       it
                       )
                       Arms
                       were
                       to
                       be
                       provided
                       ,
                       Men
                       to
                       be
                       raised
                       ,
                       an
                       Army
                       was
                       formed
                       in
                       effect
                       ,
                       and
                       who
                       to
                       Lead
                       ,
                       and
                       who
                       to
                       Command
                       ,
                       and
                       who
                       to
                       pay
                       ;
                       But
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       not
                       only
                       were
                       Arms
                       to
                       be
                       had
                       here
                       among
                       our selves
                       ,
                       but
                       a
                       French
                       Aid
                       must
                       be
                       fetch'd
                       in
                       ,
                       Assistance
                       from
                       France
                       must
                       come
                       too
                       ,
                       Intelligences
                       and
                       Letters
                       are
                       written
                       ,
                       and
                       Correspondencies
                       had
                       ,
                       and
                       Aids
                       promised
                       by
                       the
                       Ministers
                       from
                       thence
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       'T
                       is
                       a
                       strange
                       thing
                       that
                       English
                       men
                       should
                       contrive
                       to
                       have
                       an
                       Invasion
                       of
                       Strangers
                       upon
                       their
                       own
                       Country
                       ,
                       and
                       surely
                       they
                       are
                       the
                       worst
                       Biggots
                       in
                       the
                       world
                       that
                       were
                       so
                       zealous
                       to
                       destroy
                       their
                       own
                       Nation
                       ,
                       and
                       they
                       were
                       not
                       wise
                       sure
                       ,
                       to
                       think
                       ,
                       that
                       if
                       the
                       French
                       did
                       come
                       in
                       ,
                       they
                       should
                       continue
                       great
                       Lords
                       or
                       great
                       Men
                       ,
                       and
                       yet
                       thus
                       it
                       was
                       in
                       general
                       ;
                       It
                       is
                       very
                       strange
                       that
                       it
                       should
                       enter
                       into
                       the
                       heart
                       of
                       any
                       man
                       to
                       destroy
                       so
                       many
                       persons
                       :
                       But
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       if
                       we
                       look
                       upon
                       what
                       did
                       incourage
                       them
                       ,
                       and
                       what
                       confirmed
                       them
                       in
                       this
                       Design
                       ,
                       and
                       what
                       they
                       have
                       published
                       to
                       the
                       world
                       about
                       their
                       Religion
                       ,
                       we
                       shall
                       not
                       wonder
                       at
                       it
                       ,
                       since
                       they
                       tell
                       us
                       't
                       is
                       lawful
                       to
                       kill
                       an
                       Heretick
                       King
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       
                       King
                       of
                       England
                       is
                       an
                       Heretick
                       they
                       say
                       ,
                       and
                       so
                       declared
                       ,
                       so
                       that
                       whosoever
                       would
                       Kill
                       him
                       ,
                       did
                       a
                       lawful
                       and
                       pious
                       piece
                       of
                       Service
                       to
                       God
                       ;
                       Nay
                       ,
                       not
                       only
                       so
                       ,
                       but
                       a
                       Meritorious
                       and
                       Glorious
                       one
                       too
                       ,
                       for
                       which
                       they
                       may
                       be
                       Canonized
                       for
                       Saints
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       find
                       it
                       is
                       no
                       new
                       thing
                       ,
                       look
                       into
                       all
                       the
                       Nations
                       where
                       the
                       Pope
                       hath
                       any
                       Power
                       ,
                       or
                       a
                       possibility
                       of
                       hope
                       to
                       gain
                       a
                       Power
                       ,
                       nothing
                       hath
                       been
                       able
                       to
                       stand
                       in
                       their
                       way
                       ,
                       but
                       they
                       have
                       broken
                       through
                       all
                       the
                       Bonds
                       of
                       Nature
                       ,
                       and
                       other
                       Obligations
                       to
                       attain
                       their
                       Ends.
                       Look
                       into
                       Spain
                       ,
                       King
                       Philip
                       there
                       removed
                       his
                       own
                       Son
                       ,
                       by
                       what
                       means
                       the
                       Story
                       tells
                       us
                       ,
                       he
                       was
                       Heir
                       apparent
                       ,
                       but
                       he
                       was
                       a
                       Protestant
                       :
                       and
                       there
                       also
                       the
                       Father
                       puts
                       Fire
                       to
                       his
                       own
                       Daughter
                       because
                       she
                       was
                       a
                       Protestant
                       ,
                       there
                       a
                       Spaniard
                       goes
                       from
                       Spain
                       into
                       Germany
                       to
                       murder
                       ,
                       and
                       did
                       murder
                       his
                       Brother
                       for
                       no
                       other
                       cause
                       but
                       because
                       he
                       was
                       a
                       Protestant
                       .
                       Leave
                       Spain
                       and
                       go
                       into
                       France
                       ,
                       what
                       Massacres
                       have
                       been
                       committed
                       there
                       under
                       the
                       colour
                       of
                       a
                       Marriage
                       in
                       Queen
                       
                       Elizabeth's
                       time
                       ,
                       and
                       before
                       that
                       how
                       many
                       hundred
                       Albingenses
                       and
                       Waldenses
                       have
                       been
                       put
                       to
                       the
                       Sword
                       for
                       Religion
                       .
                       Come
                       we
                       to
                       our
                       own
                       Country
                       ,
                       and
                       look
                       into
                       England
                       what
                       hath
                       been
                       done
                       here
                       ,
                       when
                       Queen
                       Elizabeth
                       had
                       a
                       Successor
                       of
                       another
                       Religion
                       ,
                       how
                       many
                       Attempts
                       were
                       there
                       made
                       upon
                       her
                       Person
                       to
                       bring
                       that
                       Successor
                       in
                       ?
                       When
                       King
                       James
                       came
                       to
                       the
                       Crown
                       let
                       us
                       remember
                       the
                       
                         Gunpowder
                         Treason
                      
                       ,
                       wherein
                       all
                       the
                       Nation
                       was
                       to
                       be
                       destroyed
                       ,
                       King
                       ,
                       Lords
                       ,
                       and
                       Commons
                       together
                       ,
                       and
                       in
                       Parliament
                       assembled
                       were
                       then
                       to
                       be
                       a
                       Sacrifice
                       ,
                       a
                       Burnt-offering
                       ,
                       though
                       they
                       might
                       call
                       it
                       a
                       Peace-offering
                       :
                       for
                       these
                       Gentlemen
                       are
                       for
                       Sacrifices
                       of
                       Blood
                       as
                       Peace-offerings
                       ,
                       to
                       reconcile
                       us
                       to
                       the
                       Pope
                       .
                       If
                       this
                       be
                       made
                       out
                       ,
                       we
                       think
                       ,
                       their
                       Principles
                       having
                       produced
                       these
                       fruits
                       in
                       other
                       Ages
                       ,
                       we
                       may
                       believe
                       they
                       would
                       do
                       so
                       now
                       .
                    
                     
                       What
                       has
                       been
                       said
                       as
                       History
                       of
                       former
                       times
                       is
                       not
                       offered
                       as
                       Evidence
                       of
                       Fact
                       to
                       the
                       present
                       Case
                       ,
                       but
                       induces
                       a
                       probability
                       that
                       what
                       hath
                       been
                       done
                       by
                       such
                       persons
                       may
                       be
                       done
                       by
                       them
                       again
                       .
                       But
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       shall
                       make
                       it
                       clear
                       ,
                       and
                       bring
                       it
                       home
                       to
                       this
                       Lord
                       ,
                       that
                       he
                       hath
                       had
                       his
                       Head
                       ,
                       his
                       Tongue
                       ,
                       his
                       Hand
                       ,
                       his
                       Heart
                       and
                       his
                       Purse
                       in
                       this
                       damnable
                       and
                       horrible
                       Contrivance
                       and
                       Treason
                       for
                       the
                       destroying
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       the
                       Government
                       ,
                       our
                       Religion
                       ,
                       and
                       our
                       Nation
                       .
                       We
                       shall
                       bring
                       it
                       home
                       to
                       him
                       :
                       But
                       my
                       part
                       is
                       only
                       to
                       open
                       the
                       general
                       Conspiracy
                       .
                       And
                       indeed
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       it
                       is
                       an
                       heavy
                       burden
                       on
                       my
                       aged
                       Shoulders
                       ,
                       considering
                       that
                       the
                       Winter
                       of
                       Infirmity
                       and
                       Age
                       is
                       growing
                       so
                       fast
                       upon
                       me
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       the
                       particulars
                       concerning
                       this
                       Noble
                       Lord
                       ,
                       because
                       the
                       Credit
                       of
                       it
                       rests
                       on
                       the
                       Testimony
                       only
                       of
                       one
                       man
                       ,
                       viz.
                       Mr.
                       Oats
                       ,
                       whose
                       Testimony
                       being
                       taken
                       by
                       Sir
                       
                         Edmunbury
                         Godfrey
                      
                       a
                       Justice
                       of
                       Peace
                       ,
                       and
                       kept
                       in
                       writing
                       by
                       him
                       ,
                       then
                       Sir
                       
                         Edmundbury
                         Godfrey
                      
                       was
                       way-laid
                       ,
                       and
                       murdered
                       by
                       men
                       of
                       the
                       Popish
                       Religion
                       ,
                       thereby
                       to
                       suppress
                       the
                       Examination
                       that
                       he
                       had
                       taken
                       .
                    
                     
                       This
                       startled
                       and
                       opened
                       the
                       eyes
                       of
                       the
                       world
                       to
                       look
                       about
                       us
                       for
                       farther
                       Discovery
                       ,
                       
                       lest
                       we
                       should
                       be
                       led
                       as
                       
                         Oxen
                         to
                         the
                         slaughter
                         not
                         knowing
                         whether
                         we
                         went.
                         
                      
                    
                     
                       Afterward
                       it
                       pleased
                       God
                       to
                       bring
                       some
                       of
                       their
                       own
                       Religion
                       and
                       party
                       to
                       make
                       farther
                       Discovery
                       .
                       Whereupon
                       several
                       Jesuits
                       Guilty
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       were
                       therefore
                       Prosecuted
                       and
                       brought
                       to
                       Judgment
                       and
                       Death
                       .
                    
                     
                       After
                       the
                       Murder
                       of
                       Godfrey
                       several
                       Fables
                       were
                       spread
                       abroad
                       ,
                       as
                       if
                       he
                       were
                       alive
                       and
                       Married
                       ,
                       as
                       was
                       declared
                       to
                       several
                       Lords
                       ,
                       others
                       of
                       the
                       party
                       Reported
                       he
                       had
                       Murdered
                       himself
                       ;
                       but
                       his
                       Body
                       being
                       found
                       ;
                       it
                       was
                       hard
                       for
                       the
                       party
                       to
                       invent
                       or
                       tell
                       ,
                       whether
                       he
                       first
                       strangled
                       himself
                       ,
                       and
                       then
                       run
                       himself
                       through
                       ,
                       or
                       first
                       run
                       himself
                       through
                       ,
                       and
                       then
                       strangled
                       himself
                       ;
                       that
                       was
                       a
                       Dilemma
                       to
                       disprove
                       their
                       Fables
                       touching
                       
                       Godfrey's
                       Murder
                       .
                    
                     
                       It
                       then
                       fell
                       out
                       ,
                       that
                       Mr.
                       Bedlow
                       came
                       as
                       a
                       second
                       Discoverer
                       ,
                       whose
                       Testimony
                       Concurred
                       with
                       Oats
                       .
                       And
                       then
                       there
                       being
                       two
                       Witnesses
                       ,
                       as
                       is
                       necessary
                       in
                       case
                       of
                       Treason
                       ,
                       the
                       Design
                       was
                       to
                       take
                       off
                       Bedlow
                       that
                       there
                       should
                       remain
                       but
                       one
                       ,
                       a
                       single
                       Witness
                       .
                       In
                       order
                       to
                       which
                       Reading
                       tempts
                       Bedlow
                       with
                       Rewards
                       to
                       lessen
                       his
                       former
                       Testimony
                       ,
                       and
                       qualifies
                       that
                       which
                       he
                       had
                       deposed
                       positively
                       was
                       but
                       matter
                       of
                       hear
                       say
                       ;
                       For
                       which
                       Reading
                       the
                       Instrument
                       in
                       that
                       Design
                       and
                       Attempt
                       ,
                       was
                       Indicted
                       and
                       Convicted
                       by
                       three
                       Witnesses
                       ,
                       and
                       suffered
                       accordingly
                       .
                    
                     
                       But
                       then
                       this
                       Attempt
                       upon
                       Bedlow
                       failing
                       ,
                       the
                       next
                       Attempt
                       was
                       to
                       take
                       off
                       Oats
                       his
                       Testimony
                       ,
                       by
                       charging
                       him
                       with
                       an
                       Infamous
                       offence
                       ;
                       for
                       which
                       purpose
                       one
                       Knox
                       is
                       imployed
                       ,
                       who
                       Suborns
                       Lane
                       and
                       Osborn
                       ,
                       and
                       they
                       Swore
                       it
                       against
                       Oats
                       .
                       But
                       on
                       Re-examination
                       Confess
                       the
                       Subornation
                       and
                       Falshood
                       of
                       their
                       Design
                       :
                       and
                       Knox
                       and
                       Lane
                       are
                       therefore
                       Indicted
                       and
                       found
                       Guilty
                       .
                    
                     
                       Thus
                       when
                       the
                       Treason
                       was
                       discovered
                       ,
                       the
                       Murder
                       of
                       an
                       Officer
                       of
                       Justice
                       is
                       made
                       the
                       means
                       to
                       hide
                       it
                       ,
                       and
                       then
                       False
                       and
                       Infamous
                       stories
                       set
                       on
                       Foot
                       of
                       that
                       Officer
                       to
                       hide
                       that
                       Murder
                       ;
                       and
                       Perjury
                       and
                       Subornation
                       the
                       means
                       to
                       blast
                       the
                       Discoverers
                       .
                    
                     
                       These
                       wicked
                       and
                       ill
                       practices
                       we
                       take
                       to
                       be
                       a
                       second
                       reproof
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       both
                       in
                       general
                       and
                       particular
                       ,
                       the
                       Records
                       of
                       which
                       Convictions
                       are
                       here
                       before
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ready
                       to
                       be
                       proved
                       .
                       For
                       
                         Cui
                         bono
                      
                       ?
                       none
                       would
                       do
                       such
                       wicked
                       practices
                       but
                       to
                       hide
                       a
                       greater
                       Sin
                       and
                       worse
                       Designs
                       if
                       possible
                       will
                       be
                       opened
                       ,
                       and
                       proved
                       by
                       one
                       to
                       whom
                       that
                       is
                       particularly
                       appointed
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       speak
                       this
                       that
                       the
                       World
                       may
                       receive
                       Satisfaction
                       we
                       will
                       let
                       our
                       Evidence
                       be
                       all
                       open
                       and
                       publick
                       in
                       the
                       face
                       of
                       the
                       Sun
                       ,
                       and
                       shew
                       we
                       go
                       not
                       about
                       by
                       private
                       Subornations
                       ,
                       though
                       there
                       are
                       endeavours
                       to
                       encounter
                       us
                       by
                       such
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       If
                       we
                       make
                       out
                       these
                       things
                       ,
                       here
                       is
                       Matter
                       enough
                       for
                       the
                       Satisfaction
                       of
                       the
                       World
                       as
                       to
                       the
                       general
                       Contrivance
                       ;
                       But
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       As
                       you
                       sit
                       here
                       as
                       Judges
                       of
                       this
                       Lord
                       ,
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ,
                       we
                       must
                       bring
                       it
                       down
                       to
                       particular
                       Persons
                       ,
                       and
                       we
                       shall
                       do
                       it
                       even
                       to
                       him
                       that
                       those
                       things
                       which
                       were
                       mentioned
                       in
                       General
                       were
                       his
                       Contrivance
                       at
                       least-wise
                       ,
                       as
                       a
                       man
                       highly
                       ▪
                       
                       deeply
                       guilty
                       of
                       Conspiring
                       the
                       Kings
                       Death
                       ,
                       and
                       in
                       order
                       to
                       that
                       ,
                       of
                       raising
                       an
                       Army
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       other
                       things
                       that
                       have
                       been
                       opened
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       I
                       beseech
                       you
                       to
                       pardon
                       me
                       if
                       I
                       have
                       troubled
                       you
                       too
                       long
                       ;
                       The
                       Particulars
                       were
                       many
                       ,
                       and
                       I
                       have
                       had
                       little
                       help
                       to
                       prepare
                       it
                       from
                       any
                       body
                       but
                       my self
                       ,
                       but
                       I
                       submit
                       my self
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ,
                       and
                       hope
                       that
                       what
                       is
                       wanting
                       in
                       me
                       will
                       be
                       supplyed
                       by
                       others
                       that
                       follow
                       ;
                       and
                       I
                       also
                       hope
                       you
                       will
                       find
                       no
                       defect
                       in
                       our
                       Evidence
                       at
                       all
                       ,
                       whatsoever
                       may
                       have
                       been
                       in
                       the
                       opening
                       of
                       it
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             Then
             Sir
             
               Francis
               Winnigton
            
             another
             of
             the
             Committee
             appointed
             for
             the
             Management
             of
             the
             Evidence
             ,
             began
             as
             followeth
             ;
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         My
                         Lords
                         ,
                      
                    
                     
                       I
                       Shall
                       begin
                       where
                       Mr.
                       Serjeant
                       Maynard
                       ended
                       ,
                       and
                       confine
                       my self
                       to
                       this
                       Case
                       as
                       it
                       stands
                       before
                       you
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       open
                       the
                       particular
                       Evidence
                       relating
                       to
                       the
                       Lord
                       ,
                       the
                       now
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar.
                       
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       I
                       look
                       upon
                       the
                       Cause
                       of
                       this
                       day
                       to
                       be
                       the
                       Cause
                       of
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Religion
                       ,
                       and
                       I
                       doubt
                       not
                       but
                       that
                       Plot
                       which
                       has
                       alarm'd
                       all
                       Christendom
                       ,
                       will
                       be
                       so
                       clearly
                       made
                       out
                       in
                       this
                       Tryal
                       ,
                       that
                       the
                       most
                       malicious
                       of
                       our
                       Enemies
                       will
                       henceforth
                       want
                       Confidence
                       to
                       deny
                       it
                       .
                    
                     
                       That
                       the
                       Religion
                       of
                       the
                       Papists
                       does
                       countenance
                       and
                       encourage
                       the
                       Murdering
                       of
                       Princes
                       ,
                       the
                       Massacring
                       of
                       such
                       as
                       they
                       miscall
                       Hereticks
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       committing
                       of
                       all
                       sorts
                       of
                       Impiety
                       in
                       order
                       to
                       promote
                       their
                       Superstitions
                       ,
                       and
                       Idolatries
                       ,
                       has
                       been
                       mentioned
                       by
                       the
                       Gentleman
                       who
                       spoke
                       before
                       me
                       ,
                       and
                       I
                       should
                       mispend
                       time
                       to
                       say
                       more
                       of
                       a
                       truth
                       so
                       well
                       known
                       in
                       so
                       great
                       and
                       so
                       learned
                       a
                       Presence
                       .
                       I
                       will
                       therefore
                       directly
                       apply
                       my self
                       to
                       the
                       Business
                       of
                       the
                       day
                       ,
                       to
                       represent
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       our
                       Evidence
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       in
                       general
                       ,
                       and
                       of
                       the
                       Guilt
                       of
                       this
                       Lord
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       in
                       particular
                       .
                    
                     
                       In
                       order
                       to
                       which
                       ,
                       I
                       shall
                       crave
                       your
                       Lordships
                       leave
                       that
                       I
                       may
                       use
                       this
                       method
                       ;
                    
                     
                       First
                       ,
                       To
                       shew
                       what
                       advantageous
                       opportunities
                       the
                       Papists
                       had
                       to
                       enter
                       into
                       ,
                       and
                       undertake
                       this
                       great
                       and
                       detestable
                       Conspiracy
                       .
                    
                     
                       Secondly
                       ,
                       To
                       prove
                       the
                       reality
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       in
                       general
                       ,
                       which
                       I
                       look
                       upon
                       as
                       a
                       very
                       easie
                       undertaking
                       .
                    
                     
                       Thirdly
                       ,
                       To
                       state
                       the
                       particular
                       Evidence
                       against
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       by
                       which
                       he
                       will
                       appear
                       to
                       have
                       been
                       one
                       of
                       the
                       principal
                       Conspirators
                       in
                       this
                       horrid
                       Design
                       ,
                       to
                       murder
                       our
                       Soveraign
                       ,
                       (
                       whom
                       God
                       preserve
                       )
                       to
                       extirpate
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Religion
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       subvert
                       totally
                       the
                       Government
                       and
                       Fundamental
                       Laws
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       To
                       shew
                       what
                       extraordinary
                       Advantages
                       the
                       Papists
                       had
                       to
                       enter
                       upon
                       this
                       Conspiracy
                       ,
                       will
                       very
                       naturally
                       lead
                       us
                       into
                       our
                       Proof
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       and
                       therefore
                       I
                       shall
                       speak
                       somewhat
                       to
                       that
                       in
                       the
                       first
                       place
                       .
                       It
                       is
                       not
                       unknown
                       
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ,
                       or
                       to
                       any
                       others
                       who
                       have
                       in
                       the
                       least
                       degree
                       inquired
                       into
                       Affairs
                       ,
                       that
                       His
                       Majesty
                       has
                       been
                       so
                       unhappy
                       as
                       that
                       (
                       unawares
                       to
                       him
                       )
                       some
                       Ministers
                       who
                       have
                       been
                       Papists
                       at
                       the
                       Bottom
                       ,
                       and
                       others
                       that
                       have
                       drove
                       on
                       their
                       Interest
                       ,
                       have
                       crept
                       into
                       his
                       Councils
                       ,
                       and
                       thereby
                       gave
                       great
                       opportunities
                       to
                       advance
                       Popery
                       .
                    
                     
                       'T
                       is
                       most
                       true
                       ,
                       that
                       as
                       soon
                       as
                       these
                       ill
                       Ministers
                       were
                       detected
                       ,
                       and
                       their
                       ill
                       Designs
                       discovered
                       ,
                       His
                       Majesty
                       did
                       discharge
                       them
                       .
                       But
                       to
                       the
                       misfortune
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       and
                       his
                       People
                       ,
                       as
                       ill
                       men
                       have
                       been
                       recommended
                       to
                       succeed
                       them
                       ,
                       and
                       came
                       into
                       their
                       places
                       .
                    
                     
                       In
                       the
                       next
                       place
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       There
                       did
                       appear
                       in
                       some
                       men
                       too
                       easie
                       and
                       favourable
                       a
                       disposition
                       towards
                       the
                       Papists
                       .
                       They
                       were
                       grown
                       strangely
                       moderate
                       towards
                       these
                       old
                       Enemies
                       of
                       our
                       Church
                       and
                       State.
                       New
                       Projects
                       of
                       Reconciling
                       us
                       were
                       set
                       on
                       foot
                       ,
                       and
                       Books
                       were
                       written
                       to
                       distinguish
                       the
                       Church
                       of
                       Rome
                       from
                       the
                       Court
                       of
                       Rome
                       .
                       One
                       of
                       those
                       Books
                       ,
                       which
                       was
                       printed
                       the
                       year
                       before
                       the
                       Discovery
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       ,
                       pretends
                       ,
                       That
                       there
                       ought
                       to
                       be
                       a
                       Difference
                       made
                       between
                       Papists
                       of
                       Loyal
                       and
                       Disloyal
                       ●●●nciples
                       .
                       This
                       Book
                       ,
                       as
                       it
                       was
                       written
                       more
                       artificially
                       than
                       the
                       rest
                       ,
                       and
                       published
                       in
                       so
                       critical
                       and
                       dangerous
                       a
                       juncture
                       ,
                       deserves
                       ,
                       and
                       I
                       doubt
                       not
                       in
                       time
                       will
                       have
                       ,
                       a
                       particular
                       Consideration
                       .
                       'T
                       is
                       easie
                       to
                       believe
                       how
                       great
                       Encouragement
                       this
                       must
                       give
                       to
                       the
                       Romanists
                       ,
                       to
                       see
                       how
                       very
                       willing
                       men
                       were
                       to
                       meet
                       them
                       ,
                       and
                       how
                       freely
                       the
                       Pen
                       was
                       drawn
                       in
                       their
                       favour
                       .
                    
                     
                       Another
                       great
                       Encouragement
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       which
                       the
                       Papists
                       had
                       ,
                       was
                       ,
                       That
                       by
                       the
                       means
                       of
                       those
                       Ministers
                       who
                       were
                       secretly
                       of
                       their
                       Faction
                       ,
                       whensoever
                       His
                       Majesty
                       was
                       pleased
                       to
                       command
                       the
                       Laws
                       made
                       against
                       them
                       in
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       Queen
                       Elizabeth
                       and
                       King
                       James
                       ,
                       to
                       be
                       put
                       in
                       due
                       Execution
                       ,
                       his
                       good
                       Intentions
                       were
                       frustrated
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Severity
                       of
                       those
                       Laws
                       was
                       turned
                       upon
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Dissenters
                       .
                       This
                       was
                       a
                       Masterpiece
                       of
                       Rome
                       ,
                       not
                       only
                       to
                       divert
                       from
                       themselves
                       the
                       edge
                       of
                       those
                       Laws
                       which
                       were
                       designed
                       against
                       them
                       ;
                       but
                       to
                       turn
                       them
                       upon
                       the
                       Protestants
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       make
                       them
                       useful
                       to
                       advance
                       the
                       Romish
                       Interest
                       .
                       And
                       when
                       they
                       had
                       thus
                       divided
                       and
                       distracted
                       us
                       ,
                       then
                       was
                       the
                       fairest
                       time
                       for
                       them
                       to
                       attempt
                       to
                       destroy
                       us
                       utterly
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       make
                       sharp
                       their
                       Weapons
                       in
                       order
                       to
                       a
                       Massacre
                       .
                    
                     
                       But
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       That
                       which
                       gave
                       the
                       Papists
                       the
                       greatest
                       encouragement
                       to
                       enter
                       into
                       this
                       detestable
                       Conspiracy
                       ,
                       was
                       ,
                       that
                       they
                       had
                       (
                       to
                       the
                       great
                       unhappiness
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       &
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Religion
                       )
                       the
                       expectation
                       &
                       hopes
                       of
                       a
                       Popish
                       Successor
                       .
                       This
                       was
                       an
                       opportunity
                       not
                       to
                       be
                       lost
                       .
                       They
                       had
                       abundant
                       Experience
                       of
                       His
                       Majesties
                       Firmness
                       in
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Religion
                       ,
                       both
                       during
                       his
                       Exile
                       and
                       since
                       his
                       happy
                       Restauration
                       ,
                       and
                       how
                       resolutely
                       he
                       had
                       kept
                       that
                       Promise
                       which
                       he
                       made
                       in
                       his
                       Letter
                       from
                       Breda
                       ,
                       That
                       neither
                       the
                       Unkindness
                       of
                       some
                       Protestants
                       ,
                       nor
                       the
                       Civilities
                       of
                       some
                       Papists
                       should
                       in
                       the
                       least
                       degree
                       startle
                       him
                       ,
                       or
                       make
                       him
                       swerve
                       from
                       his
                       Religion
                       .
                    
                     
                     
                       They
                       therefore
                       could
                       have
                       no
                       hopes
                       of
                       arriving
                       at
                       their
                       Point
                       ,
                       the
                       Re-establishment
                       of
                       their
                       Church
                       ,
                       whilst
                       the
                       King
                       liv'd
                       ;
                       and
                       it
                       was
                       too
                       great
                       a
                       hazard
                       to
                       expect
                       His
                       Majesties
                       Death
                       by
                       the
                       Course
                       of
                       Nature
                       :
                       And
                       therefore
                       ,
                       like
                       true
                       Papists
                       that
                       would
                       stick
                       at
                       no
                       wickedness
                       to
                       accomplish
                       their
                       Designs
                       ,
                       they
                       threw
                       off
                       all
                       Bonds
                       of
                       Loyalty
                       and
                       Allegiance
                       ,
                       and
                       resolved
                       to
                       destroy
                       our
                       Soveraign
                       ,
                       whose
                       Life
                       was
                       the
                       only
                       Obstacle
                       in
                       their
                       way
                       .
                       This
                       was
                       the
                       last
                       and
                       most
                       wicked
                       part
                       of
                       their
                       Plot
                       ,
                       which
                       though
                       it
                       consisted
                       of
                       very
                       many
                       parts
                       ,
                       yet
                       this
                       was
                       the
                       principal
                       ;
                       and
                       our
                       Evidence
                       against
                       the
                       Lord
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       will
                       chiefly
                       run
                       to
                       this
                       part
                       of
                       the
                       Design
                       .
                    
                     
                       I
                       have
                       only
                       mentioned
                       some
                       of
                       those
                       Encouragements
                       which
                       the
                       World
                       plainly
                       saw
                       the
                       Papists
                       had
                       ,
                       before
                       the
                       Plot
                       was
                       detected
                       :
                       But
                       since
                       the
                       Discovery
                       ,
                       it
                       has
                       been
                       abundantly
                       prov'd
                       ,
                       that
                       it
                       had
                       been
                       carrying
                       on
                       for
                       many
                       years
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       so
                       universally
                       ,
                       that
                       it
                       is
                       a
                       wonderful
                       thing
                       it
                       appeared
                       no
                       sooner
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       I
                       come
                       now
                       to
                       our
                       Evidence
                       ;
                       and
                       though
                       it
                       may
                       seem
                       unnecessary
                       to
                       prove
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       general
                       Plot
                       of
                       the
                       Papists
                       ,
                       who
                       are
                       so
                       well
                       satisfied
                       of
                       it
                       already
                       ,
                       and
                       have
                       more
                       than
                       once
                       declared
                       so
                       to
                       the
                       world
                       ;
                       yet
                       because
                       it
                       is
                       the
                       most
                       natural
                       method
                       for
                       us
                       ,
                       first
                       to
                       prove
                       that
                       there
                       was
                       a
                       Conspiracy
                       ,
                       before
                       we
                       attempt
                       to
                       prove
                       this
                       Lord
                       to
                       have
                       been
                       one
                       of
                       the
                       Conspirators
                       ,
                       we
                       shall
                       beg
                       your
                       leave
                       as
                       to
                       that
                       particular
                       ;
                       and
                       as
                       we
                       shall
                       be
                       careful
                       not
                       to
                       take
                       up
                       too
                       much
                       of
                       your
                       time
                       ,
                       so
                       we
                       well
                       know
                       your
                       Lordships
                       will
                       allow
                       us
                       all
                       the
                       time
                       necessary
                       to
                       give
                       our
                       Evidence
                       .
                    
                     
                       We
                       have
                       many
                       Records
                       ,
                       things
                       reduced
                       to
                       Judgment
                       ,
                       whereby
                       the
                       Plot
                       is
                       most
                       undoubtedly
                       proved
                       ,
                       and
                       which
                       are
                       legal
                       Evidences
                       before
                       your
                       Lordships
                       .
                       The
                       Attainders
                       of
                       several
                       Jesuits
                       and
                       Priests
                       ,
                       the
                       Attainder
                       of
                       Langhorn
                       and
                       of
                       Coleman
                       ,
                       whom
                       I
                       should
                       have
                       named
                       in
                       the
                       first
                       place
                       .
                       We
                       have
                       also
                       the
                       Conviction
                       of
                       those
                       that
                       were
                       prosecuted
                       for
                       the
                       Murder
                       of
                       Sir
                       
                         Edmundbury
                         Godfrey
                      
                       ,
                       and
                       there
                       is
                       a
                       Conviction
                       ,
                       though
                       not
                       for
                       Murder
                       ,
                       yet
                       for
                       cutting
                       the
                       Throat
                       of
                       Mr.
                       Arnold
                       .
                       'T
                       is
                       true
                       he
                       is
                       not
                       dead
                       ,
                       yet
                       ,
                       as
                       to
                       the
                       publick
                       ,
                       I
                       count
                       him
                       murdered
                       by
                       the
                       Papists
                       ,
                       though
                       he
                       be
                       alive
                       in
                       the
                       world
                       .
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       have
                       Convictions
                       not
                       only
                       of
                       Treasons
                       ,
                       Murders
                       and
                       cutting
                       of
                       Throats
                       ,
                       but
                       of
                       almost
                       all
                       other
                       Villanies
                       whatsoever
                       .
                       As
                       of
                       Attempts
                       to
                       suborn
                       Witnesses
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       scandalize
                       the
                       Kings
                       Evidence
                       ;
                       and
                       to
                       that
                       we
                       shall
                       produce
                       the
                       Record
                       concerning
                       Readings
                       attempt
                       upon
                       Bedlow
                       ;
                       that
                       concerning
                       the
                       Suborning
                       of
                       Knox
                       and
                       Lane
                       to
                       Swear
                       Buggery
                       against
                       Dr.
                       Oats
                       :
                       and
                       the
                       Conviction
                       of
                       Tasborough
                       and
                       Price
                       to
                       corrupt
                       Dugdale
                       ,
                       a
                       principal
                       Witness
                       as
                       to
                       this
                       Plot.
                       
                    
                     
                       I
                       only
                       mention
                       these
                       particulars
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       and
                       certainly
                       as
                       you
                       are
                       a
                       great
                       Court
                       of
                       Record
                       you
                       will
                       take
                       notice
                       of
                       them
                       .
                       It
                       would
                       be
                       a
                       hard
                       thing
                       perhaps
                       to
                       spend
                       the
                       time
                       in
                       reading
                       all
                       ,
                       since
                       all
                       of
                       them
                       are
                       made
                       known
                       to
                       the
                       world
                       already
                       ,
                       but
                       we
                       shall
                       in
                       the
                       course
                       of
                       our
                       Evidence
                       produce
                       them
                       ,
                       and
                       you
                       may
                       read
                       such
                       of
                       them
                       as
                       you
                       please
                       .
                       All
                       the
                       use
                       we
                       make
                       of
                       them
                       is
                       for
                       the
                       proof
                       of
                       the
                       
                       general
                       Plot
                       ,
                       which
                       is
                       requisite
                       to
                       be
                       done
                       ,
                       for
                       it
                       will
                       be
                       hard
                       to
                       believe
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       Guilty
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       ,
                       if
                       there
                       were
                       no
                       such
                       Plot
                       at
                       all
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       shall
                       make
                       appear
                       to
                       you
                       things
                       which
                       have
                       not
                       yet
                       been
                       brought
                       into
                       Judgment
                       .
                       In
                       the
                       year
                       (
                       76.
                       )
                       we
                       shall
                       prove
                       by
                       a
                       Witness
                       that
                       was
                       then
                       abroad
                       ,
                       and
                       discoursed
                       with
                       
                         Anderton
                         ,
                         Campion
                         ,
                         Green
                      
                       ,
                       and
                       several
                       other
                       Priests
                       and
                       Jesuits
                       ,
                       that
                       they
                       did
                       acquaint
                       him
                       that
                       there
                       would
                       be
                       great
                       alteration
                       in
                       England
                       ere
                       long
                       ,
                       that
                       the
                       King
                       was
                       a
                       Heretick
                       and
                       Excommunicated
                       ,
                       and
                       might
                       be
                       destroyed
                       ;
                       and
                       this
                       Doctrine
                       they
                       continually
                       and
                       industriously
                       preached
                       .
                       And
                       they
                       further
                       said
                       ,
                       if
                       once
                       the
                       King
                       were
                       removed
                       ,
                       (
                       who
                       alone
                       stood
                       in
                       the
                       way
                       )
                       their
                       Religion
                       must
                       needs
                       flourish
                       ;
                       for
                       this
                       Reason
                       ,
                       (
                       as
                       the
                       Witnesses
                       will
                       speak
                       )
                       that
                       the
                       Duke
                       of
                       York
                       was
                       on
                       their
                       side
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       We
                       shall
                       prove
                       ,
                       that
                       they
                       had
                       in
                       England
                       men
                       no
                       less
                       industrious
                       amongst
                       them
                       ,
                       some
                       whereof
                       have
                       been
                       Executed
                       ;
                       Gavan
                       by
                       name
                       ,
                       who
                       made
                       it
                       his
                       business
                       to
                       go
                       up
                       and
                       down
                       in
                       several
                       Counties
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       ,
                       to
                       prove
                       by
                       Scripture
                       ,
                       Councils
                       ,
                       and
                       Examples
                       ,
                       That
                       it
                       was
                       a
                       lawful
                       undertaking
                       to
                       kill
                       His
                       Majesty
                       .
                       These
                       things
                       I
                       name
                       ,
                       as
                       necessary
                       in
                       order
                       to
                       introduce
                       our
                       particular
                       Evidence
                       ,
                       I
                       am
                       unwilling
                       to
                       dwell
                       longer
                       upon
                       this
                       point
                       of
                       the
                       general
                       Plot.
                       I
                       shall
                       produce
                       the
                       Records
                       ,
                       and
                       produce
                       our
                       several
                       Witnesses
                       ,
                       Mr.
                       Oats
                       and
                       others
                       that
                       will
                       give
                       you
                       a
                       full
                       and
                       plain
                       Account
                       of
                       it
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       Having
                       done
                       with
                       the
                       general
                       Plot
                       ,
                       I
                       come
                       now
                       to
                       open
                       the
                       particular
                       Evidence
                       against
                       my
                       Lord
                       ,
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar.
                       As
                       to
                       him
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       our
                       Evidence
                       stands
                       not
                       upon
                       Conjectures
                       ,
                       or
                       upon
                       meer
                       Probability
                       ,
                       because
                       this
                       Lord
                       is
                       (
                       as
                       we
                       well
                       know
                       )
                       a
                       zealous
                       Papist
                       ,
                       and
                       hath
                       owned
                       himself
                       so
                       ,
                       but
                       we
                       have
                       express
                       particular
                       Proofs
                       against
                       his
                       Person
                       .
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       have
                       one
                       Witness
                       to
                       produce
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       who
                       will
                       prove
                       ,
                       that
                       in
                       September
                       (
                       78.
                       )
                       there
                       was
                       a
                       Consult
                       of
                       some
                       Priests
                       and
                       other
                       Conspirators
                       at
                       Tixall
                       in
                       Staffordshire
                       ,
                       my
                       Lord
                       
                       Aston's
                       House
                       ,
                       for
                       killing
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       where
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       was
                       present
                       .
                       And
                       by
                       a
                       Discourse
                       in
                       the
                       same
                       month
                       ,
                       we
                       shall
                       prove
                       what
                       reasons
                       this
                       Lord
                       did
                       give
                       ,
                       why
                       he
                       and
                       their
                       Party
                       undertook
                       the
                       Murdering
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       because
                       he
                       said
                       ,
                       That
                       he
                       and
                       many
                       Cathol●ck
                       Families
                       had
                       no
                       Recompence
                       for
                       their
                       Loyalty
                       ▪
                       but
                       if
                       any
                       thing
                       fell
                       it
                       was
                       disposed
                       of
                       to
                       Rebels
                       and
                       Traytors
                       .
                       This
                       he
                       resented
                       deeply
                       ;
                       but
                       above
                       all
                       ,
                       the
                       Obligation
                       of
                       his
                       Conscience
                       and
                       of
                       his
                       Religion
                       persuaded
                       him
                       to
                       it
                       ,
                       and
                       confirmed
                       him
                       in
                       his
                       resolution
                       to
                       go
                       on
                       in
                       this
                       horrid
                       Design
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       we
                       will
                       go
                       farther
                       ,
                       and
                       prove
                       that
                       this
                       Lord
                       offered
                       500
                       l.
                       out
                       of
                       his
                       own
                       Purse
                       to
                       carry
                       on
                       the
                       Plot
                       ,
                       and
                       particularly
                       this
                       part
                       of
                       it
                       for
                       killing
                       the
                       King.
                       We
                       shall
                       produce
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       a
                       Witness
                       to
                       whom
                       he
                       made
                       this
                       offer
                       ,
                       as
                       looking
                       upon
                       him
                       to
                       be
                       a
                       faithful
                       man
                       ,
                       and
                       having
                       received
                       so
                       great
                       a
                       Character
                       of
                       him
                       from
                       one
                       Evers
                       a
                       Priest
                       ,
                       that
                       he
                       thought
                       he
                       might
                       safely
                       communicate
                       the
                       matter
                       to
                       him
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Argument
                       he
                       urged
                       to
                       persuade
                       the
                       Witness
                       ,
                       besides
                       the
                       500
                       l.
                       which
                       he
                       said
                       upon
                       his
                       application
                       to
                       Harcou●t
                       and
                       
                       Ireland
                       they
                       should
                       pay
                       him
                       ,
                       was
                       this
                       ,
                       that
                       others
                       as
                       well
                       as
                       he
                       was
                       employed
                       in
                       the
                       same
                       Design
                       ,
                       that
                       it
                       was
                       the
                       only
                       way
                       to
                       establish
                       the
                       Romish
                       Religion
                       in
                       England
                       ,
                       that
                       he
                       would
                       lay
                       an
                       everlasting
                       obligation
                       upon
                       all
                       the
                       Persons
                       of
                       that
                       Persuasion
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       he
                       should
                       not
                       only
                       have
                       his
                       Pardon
                       ,
                       but
                       be
                       Canonized
                       for
                       it
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       This
                       is
                       the
                       substance
                       of
                       the
                       Testimony
                       of
                       the
                       first
                       Witness
                       which
                       we
                       shall
                       produce
                       against
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       is
                       so
                       express
                       as
                       I
                       think
                       it
                       can
                       hardly
                       be
                       answered
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       Our
                       next
                       Witness
                       says
                       thus
                       ;
                       (
                       for
                       I
                       shall
                       but
                       open
                       the
                       substance
                       of
                       what
                       they
                       say
                       )
                       In
                       June
                       or
                       July
                       1678.
                       there
                       were
                       several
                       Letters
                       from
                       this
                       Lord
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ,
                       to
                       the
                       Jesuits
                       in
                       London
                       ,
                       in
                       which
                       his
                       Lordship
                       did
                       declare
                       ,
                       his
                       readiness
                       to
                       serve
                       them
                       in
                       their
                       great
                       Design
                       ;
                       and
                       in
                       June
                       (
                       78.
                       )
                       the
                       latter
                       end
                       of
                       the
                       month
                       ,
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       came
                       to
                       Mr.
                       Fenwicks
                       Chamber
                       in
                       Drury-Lane
                       ,
                       (
                       he
                       went
                       not
                       then
                       by
                       the
                       name
                       of
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       but
                       by
                       the
                       name
                       of
                       Mr.
                       Howard
                       of
                       Effingham
                       )
                       and
                       there
                       he
                       did
                       receive
                       a
                       Commission
                       from
                       Fenwick
                       to
                       be
                       Paymaster-General
                       of
                       the
                       Army
                       which
                       was
                       to
                       be
                       raised
                       for
                       the
                       carrying
                       on
                       the
                       Plot.
                       His
                       Lordship
                       told
                       them
                       he
                       was
                       then
                       going
                       into
                       the
                       Country
                       ,
                       but
                       he
                       hoped
                       he
                       should
                       soon
                       hear
                       from
                       them
                       ,
                       that
                       they
                       had
                       done
                       the
                       business
                       ,
                       at
                       least
                       ,
                       that
                       it
                       would
                       be
                       done
                       before
                       his
                       Lordship
                       did
                       return
                       .
                       To
                       which
                       Fenwick
                       made
                       answer
                       ;
                       Your
                       Lordship
                       must
                       look
                       after
                       the
                       business
                       as
                       well
                       as
                       other
                       Persons
                       ,
                       and
                       there
                       will
                       be
                       need
                       of
                       some
                       to
                       Countenance
                       it
                       in
                       Town
                       ;
                       thereupon
                       the
                       Lord
                       ,
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ,
                       said
                       ,
                       That
                       they
                       had
                       been
                       often
                       deceived
                       by
                       this
                       Prince
                       and
                       been
                       patient
                       with
                       him
                       ,
                       but
                       they
                       would
                       bear
                       no
                       longer
                       ,
                       but
                       were
                       now
                       resolved
                       to
                       do
                       the
                       Work
                       without
                       delay
                       ,
                       for
                       their
                       patience
                       was
                       worn
                       out
                       .
                       Several
                       other
                       particular
                       Circumstances
                       the
                       Witnesses
                       will
                       acquaint
                       your
                       Lordships
                       withal
                       ,
                       which
                       I
                       shall
                       not
                       take
                       up
                       your
                       time
                       with
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       We
                       have
                       a
                       third
                       Witness
                       as
                       considerable
                       and
                       particular
                       as
                       any
                       of
                       the
                       rest
                       ,
                       one
                       that
                       lived
                       three
                       years
                       in
                       the
                       Lady
                       Powis
                       House
                       ,
                       had
                       his
                       Education
                       there
                       ,
                       and
                       was
                       persuaded
                       by
                       that
                       Lady
                       and
                       by
                       one
                       Morgan
                       a
                       Jesuit
                       to
                       become
                       a
                       Fryer
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       that
                       end
                       was
                       sent
                       to
                       Doway
                       ;
                       But
                       not
                       liking
                       to
                       continue
                       at
                       Doway
                       ,
                       (
                       he
                       will
                       tell
                       you
                       the
                       reason
                       why
                       )
                       he
                       escaped
                       to
                       France
                       ,
                       and
                       at
                       Paris
                       came
                       to
                       his
                       Brother
                       ,
                       a
                       Benedictine
                       Monk
                       there
                       ,
                       who
                       advised
                       him
                       to
                       go
                       for
                       England
                       .
                       But
                       whilst
                       he
                       staid
                       at
                       Paris
                       ,
                       this
                       Gentleman
                       ,
                       by
                       the
                       means
                       of
                       his
                       Brother
                       and
                       other
                       Priests
                       ,
                       grew
                       into
                       a
                       great
                       samiliarity
                       with
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       who
                       was
                       then
                       in
                       France
                       ,
                       and
                       who
                       at
                       last
                       came
                       to
                       have
                       such
                       a
                       great
                       Confidence
                       in
                       him
                       ,
                       that
                       his
                       Lordship
                       could
                       not
                       hold
                       ,
                       but
                       told
                       him
                       ,
                       that
                       though
                       he
                       had
                       disobliged
                       all
                       his
                       Friends
                       by
                       his
                       going
                       away
                       from
                       Doway
                       ,
                       yet
                       he
                       had
                       something
                       to
                       propose
                       to
                       him
                       which
                       would
                       be
                       a
                       means
                       to
                       reconcile
                       him
                       to
                       h●s
                       Friends
                       ,
                       and
                       bring
                       him
                       into
                       preserment
                       ,
                       and
                       into
                       the
                       friendship
                       of
                       all
                       good
                       Catholicks
                       ,
                       whom
                       he
                       would
                       oblige
                       by
                       it
                       .
                       The
                       Gentleman
                       was
                       willing
                       to
                       embrace
                       so
                       happy
                       an
                       opportunity
                       ,
                       and
                       desired
                       to
                       know
                       what
                       it
                       was
                       ,
                       could
                       procure
                       him
                       so
                       great
                       a
                       good
                       ;
                       My
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ,
                       told
                       him
                       ,
                       It
                       was
                       a
                       thing
                       of
                       very
                       great
                       Importance
                       ,
                       and
                       ,
                       
                       after
                       having
                       required
                       from
                       him
                       all
                       possible
                       obligations
                       of
                       Secrecy
                       ,
                       he
                       told
                       him
                       plainly
                       what
                       great
                       benefits
                       would
                       accrew
                       to
                       himself
                       ,
                       and
                       what
                       advantage
                       to
                       the
                       Catholick
                       Cause
                       ,
                       if
                       he
                       would
                       make
                       himself
                       and
                       the
                       Nation
                       happy
                       by
                       undertaking
                       to
                       kill
                       the
                       King
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       who
                       was
                       an
                       Heretick
                       ,
                       and
                       consequently
                       a
                       Rebel
                       to
                       God
                       Almighty
                       .
                       My
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       did
                       believe
                       the
                       Witnesses
                       did
                       embrace
                       this
                       proposal
                       warmly
                       ,
                       and
                       therefore
                       directed
                       him
                       to
                       prepare
                       to
                       go
                       for
                       England
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       go
                       before
                       hand
                       from
                       Paris
                       to
                       Deep
                       ,
                       where
                       he
                       would
                       meet
                       him
                       ,
                       and
                       go
                       over
                       with
                       him
                       .
                       But
                       it
                       seems
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       met
                       with
                       some
                       diversion
                       ,
                       for
                       he
                       did
                       not
                       keep
                       his
                       word
                       with
                       him
                       in
                       coming
                       ,
                       and
                       so
                       this
                       Gentleman
                       ,
                       being
                       disappointed
                       ,
                       went
                       over
                       without
                       him
                       ;
                       but
                       fearing
                       to
                       be
                       called
                       upon
                       to
                       the
                       same
                       Service
                       ,
                       he
                       returned
                       back
                       again
                       suddenly
                       ,
                       and
                       went
                       into
                       the
                       French
                       Army
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       We
                       shall
                       produce
                       these
                       Witnesses
                       against
                       the
                       Lord
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ,
                       and
                       when
                       they
                       have
                       proved
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       what
                       I
                       have
                       opened
                       ,
                       any
                       one
                       ,
                       who
                       was
                       not
                       acquainted
                       with
                       the
                       Popish
                       party
                       ,
                       would
                       believe
                       they
                       would
                       be
                       at
                       a
                       loss
                       how
                       to
                       acquit
                       themselves
                       from
                       this
                       Charge
                       .
                       All
                       manner
                       of
                       foul
                       and
                       indirect
                       practices
                       have
                       been
                       used
                       by
                       them
                       to
                       Terrifie
                       ,
                       to
                       Corrupt
                       and
                       to
                       Scandalize
                       our
                       Witnesses
                       ;
                       all
                       manner
                       of
                       Objections
                       have
                       been
                       made
                       to
                       our
                       Evidence
                       .
                       If
                       the
                       Witness
                       does
                       not
                       come
                       up
                       to
                       speak
                       directly
                       to
                       every
                       Point
                       ,
                       we
                       are
                       told
                       ,
                       he
                       says
                       nothing
                       at
                       all
                       ;
                       if
                       he
                       speaks
                       directly
                       ,
                       they
                       cry
                       ,
                       he
                       is
                       not
                       to
                       be
                       believed
                       .
                       Thus
                       they
                       have
                       a
                       ready
                       answer
                       to
                       every
                       Witness
                       that
                       has
                       been
                       ,
                       or
                       ever
                       shall
                       be
                       produced
                       ,
                       either
                       that
                       he
                       says
                       nothing
                       Material
                       ,
                       or
                       that
                       nothing
                       that
                       he
                       says
                       ought
                       to
                       have
                       any
                       Credit
                       .
                    
                     
                       But
                       we
                       doubt
                       not
                       ,
                       by
                       this
                       Tryal
                       before
                       your
                       Lordships
                       ,
                       if
                       we
                       cannot
                       stop
                       their
                       mouths
                       ,
                       at
                       least
                       to
                       convince
                       all
                       the
                       World
                       besides
                       ,
                       of
                       the
                       reality
                       of
                       this
                       Plot.
                       
                    
                     
                       It
                       will
                       be
                       no
                       wonder
                       if
                       their
                       Confidence
                       goes
                       on
                       still
                       to
                       frame
                       Cavils
                       ,
                       They
                       are
                       used
                       to
                       scandalize
                       the
                       Government
                       ,
                       and
                       they
                       cannot
                       give
                       it
                       over
                       .
                       How
                       often
                       has
                       His
                       Majesty
                       under
                       his
                       Great
                       Seal
                       ,
                       published
                       and
                       declared
                       this
                       Conspiracy
                       ?
                       How
                       often
                       has
                       he
                       press'd
                       His
                       Parliaments
                       to
                       go
                       on
                       to
                       bring
                       the
                       Conspirators
                       to
                       Punishment
                       ,
                       and
                       at
                       the
                       opening
                       of
                       this
                       very
                       Parliament
                       ,
                       he
                       says
                       plainly
                       ,
                       That
                       he
                       does
                       not
                       believe
                       himself
                       safe
                       from
                       their
                       Designs
                       .
                       Your
                       Lordships
                       also
                       have
                       Voted
                       the
                       unquestionable
                       Truth
                       of
                       the
                       Plot
                       ,
                       and
                       so
                       have
                       the
                       Commons
                       ;
                       yet
                       these
                       men
                       are
                       so
                       hardy
                       ,
                       as
                       still
                       to
                       deny
                       the
                       plainest
                       Truth
                       so
                       confirm'd
                       as
                       this
                       hath
                       been
                       .
                    
                     
                       Nay
                       ,
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       Their
                       Malice
                       goes
                       yet
                       farther
                       ,
                       for
                       they
                       have
                       been
                       so
                       Bold
                       as
                       to
                       whisper
                       up
                       and
                       down
                       ,
                       and
                       industriously
                       to
                       spread
                       Reports
                       before
                       the
                       Trial
                       ,
                       as
                       if
                       this
                       Lord
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       rest
                       who
                       are
                       Impeached
                       should
                       certainly
                       be
                       acquitted
                       .
                       We
                       do
                       hope
                       to
                       be
                       able
                       to
                       detect
                       the
                       Authors
                       of
                       this
                       great
                       Scandal
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Commons
                       doubt
                       not
                       of
                       your
                       Lordships
                       Concurrence
                       to
                       assist
                       them
                       in
                       bringing
                       them
                       to
                       their
                       deserved
                       Punishment
                       .
                       This
                       is
                       sure
                       ,
                       the
                       first
                       time
                       that
                       ever
                       any
                       sort
                       of
                       men
                       presumed
                       to
                       Reflect
                       upon
                       the
                       Justice
                       of
                       this
                       High
                       and
                       Noble
                       
                       Court.
                       Your
                       Ancestors
                       ,
                       my
                       Lords
                       ,
                       did
                       by
                       their
                       Honour
                       ,
                       Courage
                       ,
                       and
                       Justice
                       ,
                       preserve
                       our
                       Ancestors
                       :
                       The
                       advantage
                       of
                       which
                       ,
                       We
                       ,
                       who
                       are
                       descended
                       from
                       them
                       ,
                       do
                       now
                       enjoy
                       ,
                       and
                       We
                       shall
                       never
                       have
                       occasion
                       to
                       doubt
                       in
                       the
                       least
                       ,
                       but
                       that
                       your
                       Lordships
                       will
                       tread
                       in
                       their
                       steps
                       .
                       You
                       have
                       in
                       your
                       hands
                       a
                       great
                       Opportunity
                       to
                       make
                       your
                       Zeal
                       for
                       Truth
                       ,
                       and
                       for
                       the
                       Protestant
                       Religion
                       famous
                       to
                       Posterity
                       .
                       No
                       Artifice
                       or
                       Malice
                       can
                       Create
                       the
                       least
                       Jealousie
                       in
                       us
                       ,
                       that
                       ever
                       your
                       Lordships
                       should
                       shew
                       any
                       Partiality
                       or
                       Injustice
                       to
                       the
                       Commons
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       To
                       your
                       Judgement
                       this
                       Cause
                       is
                       submitted
                       ,
                       and
                       when
                       we
                       have
                       your
                       Judgement
                       ,
                       we
                       doubt
                       not
                       but
                       we
                       shall
                       drive
                       Popery
                       out
                       of
                       this
                       English
                       World.
                       
                    
                     
                       
                         My
                         Lords
                      
                       ,
                       We
                       shall
                       go
                       on
                       to
                       the
                       proof
                       of
                       our
                       Cause
                       ,
                       and
                       I
                       hope
                       this
                       will
                       be
                       a
                       happy
                       day
                       to
                       us
                       and
                       the
                       whole
                       Protestant
                       Interest
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             Then
             Mr.
             Treby
             also
             one
             of
             the
             Committee
             appointed
             for
             the
             Management
             of
             the
             Evidence
             ,
             began
             as
             followeth
             ;
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         My
                         Lords
                         ,
                      
                    
                     
                       THese
                       two
                       Learned
                       Gentlemen
                       have
                       fully
                       discharged
                       their
                       Province
                       .
                    
                     
                       I
                       shall
                       proceed
                       to
                       call
                       our
                       Witnesses
                       to
                       give
                       their
                       Testimony
                       .
                    
                     
                       But
                       before
                       we
                       produce
                       them
                       ,
                       your
                       Lordships
                       will
                       be
                       pleased
                       to
                       take
                       notice
                       ,
                       that
                       our
                       Evidence
                       will
                       consist
                       of
                       Two
                       Parts
                       ;
                       general
                       and
                       particular
                       ;
                       the
                       general
                       ,
                       to
                       shew
                       the
                       
                         Universal
                         Conspiracy
                      
                       ;
                       the
                       particular
                       ,
                       to
                       shew
                       what
                       special
                       part
                       this
                       Noble
                       Lord
                       ,
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       had
                       in
                       it
                       .
                    
                     
                       And
                       though
                       in
                       the
                       first
                       part
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       may
                       not
                       be
                       particularly
                       named
                       ,
                       yet
                       that
                       Evidence
                       will
                       be
                       pertinent
                       and
                       proper
                       for
                       us
                       to
                       give
                       ,
                       in
                       this
                       Trial
                       of
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       ;
                       for
                       ,
                       we
                       charge
                       him
                       not
                       with
                       the
                       Private
                       Treason
                       wherein
                       he
                       with
                       his
                       immediate
                       Complices
                       only
                       might
                       be
                       concerned
                       ,
                       but
                       it
                       is
                       a
                       Treason
                       of
                       the
                       
                         Popish
                         Faction
                      
                       ,
                       or
                       at
                       least
                       ,
                       the
                       Principal
                       and
                       Active
                       Papists
                       .
                    
                     
                       We
                       lay
                       it
                       in
                       our
                       Articles
                       of
                       Impeachment
                       .
                       That
                       there
                       was
                       an
                       
                         Execrable
                         Plot
                         contrived
                         and
                         carried
                         on
                         by
                         the
                         Papists
                         ,
                      
                       and
                       that
                       the
                       Conspirators
                       acted
                       diverse
                       Parts
                       ,
                       and
                       in
                       diverse
                       places
                       
                         beyond
                         Sea
                         ,
                         as
                         well
                         as
                         here
                         .
                      
                       It
                       was
                       a
                       Treason
                       that
                       did
                       best●ide
                       two
                       Lands
                       ,
                       England
                       indeed
                       was
                       the
                       thing
                       aimed
                       at
                       ;
                       the
                       destruction
                       of
                       the
                       Religion
                       ,
                       Government
                       and
                       Liberty
                       of
                       England
                       was
                       the
                       End
                       ;
                       but
                       the
                       Means
                       and
                       Instruments
                       were
                       not
                       Collected
                       here
                       only
                       ,
                       but
                       part
                       of
                       them
                       were
                       to
                       be
                       brought
                       in
                       from
                       abroad
                       .
                    
                     
                       This
                       is
                       an
                       Enterprise
                       too
                       extensive
                       to
                       be
                       intirely
                       manag'd
                       by
                       a
                       Single
                       Nobleman
                       ,
                       And
                       though
                       we
                       look
                       upon
                       my
                       Lord
                       Stafford
                       as
                       a
                       great
                       Malefactor
                       ,
                       yet
                       we
                       cannot
                       think
                       him
                       so
                       great
                       a
                       Man
                       as
                       to
                       be
                       able
                       within
                       his
                       own
                       Sphere
                       to
                       compass
                       this
                       whole
                       Design
                       .
                    
                     
                     
                       
                         Should
                         we
                         not
                         take
                         this
                         course
                         of
                         Evidence
                         first
                         to
                         prove
                         the
                         General
                         Plot
                         ,
                         it
                         might
                         be
                         a
                         great
                         and
                         just
                         objection
                         in
                         my
                         Lords
                         mouth
                         to
                         say
                         ,
                      
                       You
                       charge
                       〈◊〉
                       with
                       a
                       Design
                       of
                       Subverting
                       the
                       Kingdom
                       ,
                       how
                       is
                       that
                       possible
                       to
                       be
                       undertaken
                       by
                       me
                       ,
                       and
                       those
                       I
                       have
                       had
                       opportunity
                       to
                       converse
                       and
                       confederate
                       with
                       ?
                       a
                       mighty
                       part
                       of
                       the
                       Catholick
                       World
                       had
                       need
                       be
                       engaged
                       for
                       such
                       a
                       purpose
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       If
                       this
                       would
                       be
                       a
                       material
                       Objection
                       from
                       this
                       Lord
                       ,
                       then
                       will
                       it
                       be
                       requisite
                       for
                       us
                       to
                       obviate
                       and
                       prevent
                       the
                       Objection
                       by
                       shewing
                       first
                       ,
                       that
                       there
                       was
                       such
                       a
                       grand
                       and
                       universal
                       design
                       of
                       Papists
                       ,
                       in
                       which
                       this
                       Lord
                       was
                       to
                       co-operate
                       for
                       his
                       distinct
                       share
                       ;
                       though
                       perhaps
                       when
                       we
                       descend
                       to
                       our
                       particular
                       Evidence
                       it
                       will
                       appear
                       ,
                       that
                       his
                       part
                       hath
                       been
                       great
                       ,
                       and
                       manag'd
                       with
                       malice
                       as
                       great
                       as
                       any
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lords
                       ,
                       We
                       shall
                       begin
                       with
                       a
                       Witness
                       ,
                       a
                       Gentleman
                       whose
                       Education
                       has
                       given
                       him
                       the
                       opportunity
                       of
                       knowing
                       the
                       inside
                       of
                       their
                       Affairs
                       ,
                       and
                       we
                       presume
                       he
                       will
                       give
                       you
                       a
                       satisfactory
                       account
                       ,
                       his
                       name
                       is
                       Mr.
                       
                         John
                         Smith
                      
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               call
               him
               to
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               To
               the
               General
               Plot
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               May
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               know
               not
               who
               he
               is
               ,
               nor
               his
               Name
               ,
               I
               humbly
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               that
               this
               Witness
               ,
               who
               ever
               he
               be
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               rest
               that
               have
               any
               thing
               to
               witness
               against
               me
               ,
               may
               look
               upon
               me
               face
               to
               face
               ,
               according
               to
               the
               words
               of
               the
               Statute
               .
               I
               humbly
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               to
               grant
               me
               this
               ,
               which
               I
               take
               to
               be
               according
               to
               Law
               ;
               and
               that
               each
               may
               give
               his
               Evidence
               alone
               ,
               and
               that
               both
               against
               me
               and
               for
               me
               ,
               one
               may
               not
               know
               what
               the
               other
               says
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               You
               shall
               have
               all
               the
               fair
               proceeding
               that
               can
               be
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               The
               Law
               says
               ,
               my
               Accusers
               must
               look
               me
               face
               to
               face
               .
               I
               desire
               to
               have
               the
               words
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               may
               see
               him
               there
               where
               he
               stands
               up
               .
            
             
               Then
               Mr.
               Smith
               turned
               ,
               and
               looked
               upon
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Safford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               see
               him
               ,
               but
               do
               not
               know
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Swear
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Clerk.
               
            
             
               The
               Evidence
               that
               you
               shall
               give
               in
               the
               Tryal
               of
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               ,
               shall
               be
               the
               truth
               ,
               the
               whole
               truth
               ,
               and
               nothing
               but
               the
               truth
               ,
               so
               help
               you
               God
               ,
               and
               the
               Contents
               of
               this
               Book
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               observes
               he
               is
               not
               brought
               as
               a
               particular
               Witness
               against
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               but
               to
               prove
               the
               general
               Design
               of
               your
               Party
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               still
               concerning
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Look
               upon
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               (
               which
               he
               did
               )
               and
               now
               tell
               your
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               This
               is
               Mr.
               Smith
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
               And
               that
               which
               we
               would
               examine
               this
               Witness
               to
               ,
               is
               the
               general
               Design
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               what
               knowledge
               he
               hath
               had
               of
               it
               here
               or
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               the
               Gentleman
               is
               able
               to
               understand
               the
               general
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               remember
               very
               well
               ,
               when
               I
               went
               first
               into
               France
               ,
               I
               came
               acquainted
               with
               Abbot
               Montague
               ,
               Father
               Gascoyn
               ,
               and
               several
               other
               Popish
               Priests
               and
               Jesuits
               ,
               who
               often
               discoursed
               with
               me
               ,
               and
               told
               me
               ,
               if
               I
               would
               make
               my self
               a
               Catholick
               I
               should
               have
               an
               Employment
               amongst
               them
               there
               ,
               and
               afterwards
               in
               England
               ;
               for
               they
               did
               not
               doubt
               but
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               would
               come
               in
               very
               soon
               ;
               upon
               which
               I
               asked
               his
               Lordship
               the
               Abbot
               one
               day
               ,
               what
               reason
               he
               had
               to
               believe
               it
               ?
               he
               told
               me
               two
               reasons
               ;
               first
               ,
               that
               they
               did
               not
               doubt
               but
               to
               procure
               a
               toleration
               of
               Religion
               ,
               by
               which
               they
               should
               bring
               it
               in
               without
               noise
               ;
               and
               secondly
               ,
               that
               the
               Gentry
               that
               went
               abroad
               did
               observe
               the
               novelty
               of
               their
               own
               Religion
               ,
               and
               the
               Antiquity
               of
               theirs
               ,
               and
               the
               advantages
               that
               were
               to
               be
               had
               by
               it
               .
               These
               Reasons
               Abbot
               Montague
               gave
               me
               .
               There
               was
               one
               Father
               Bennet
               and
               others
               ,
               that
               told
               me
               the
               chief
               reason
               was
               ,
               their
               party
               was
               very
               strong
               in
               England
               ,
               and
               in
               a
               few
               Years
               they
               would
               bring
               it
               in
               right
               or
               wrong
               .
               All
               this
               would
               not
               prevail
               with
               me
               to
               turn
               Papist
               ,
               and
               I
               lived
               among
               them
               several
               Years
               .
               At
               last
               I
               had
               a
               design
               to
               go
               to
               Rome
               ,
               and
               as
               I
               went
               I
               had
               a
               design
               to
               go
               to
               Provence
               ,
               (
               and
               so
               into
               Italy
               )
               where
               there
               was
               one
               Cardinal
               Grimaldi
               coming
               thorough
               the
               Town
               ,
               and
               the
               Jesuits
               having
               a
               great
               School
               there
               ,
               I
               was
               curious
               to
               go
               to
               the
               School
               ,
               and
               they
               were
               very
               desirous
               I
               should
               tarry
               for
               some
               time
               in
               the
               Town
               ;
               I
               did
               ,
               and
               they
               made
               much
               of
               me
               ,
               and
               told
               me
               much
               to
               the
               same
               substance
               ,
               what
               assurances
               they
               had
               of
               their
               Religion
               coming
               into
               England
               .
               At
               last
               they
               had
               a
               desire
               I
               should
               discourse
               with
               the
               Cardinal
               ,
               which
               I
               did
               ,
               and
               he
               made
               much
               of
               me
               ,
               and
               he
               it
               was
               that
               perverted
               me
               to
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               ;
               upon
               this
               the
               Cardinal
               shewed
               me
               a
               pair
               of
               Hangings
               that
               were
               in
               his
               House
               ,
               which
               he
               said
               did
               belong
               to
               the
               Queen
               Mother
               ,
               and
               were
               bought
               in
               Paris
               ,
               and
               he
               told
               me
               he
               was
               acquainted
               with
               many
               of
               the
               Nobility
               in
               England
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               had
               great
               assurance
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               would
               prevail
               ,
               and
               he
               told
               me
               there
               was
               but
               one
               in
               the
               way
               ,
               and
               though
               that
               man
               was
               a
               good
               natured
               man
               ,
               yet
               they
               could
               not
               so
               far
               prevail
               upon
               him
               ,
               but
               that
               to
               accomplish
               their
               designs
               they
               must
               take
               him
               out
               of
               the
               way
               ;
               but
               at
               last
               I
               left
               this
               place
               and
               went
               to
               Rome
               ,
               where
               I
               lived
               some
               years
               in
               the
               English
               Jesuits
               Colledge
               there
               ,
               and
               when
               I
               had
               lived
               there
               five
               years
               ,
               I
               came
               to
               be
               Prefect
               of
               several
               Rooms
               there
               which
               are
               the
               Scholars
               Lodgings
               and
               places
               of
               Study
               .
               I
               have
               heard
               it
               there
               often
               disputed
               in
               their
               own
               Colledge
               ,
               both
               preach'd
               and
               privately
               exhorted
               ,
               that
               the
               King
               of
               England
               was
               an
               Heretick
               ,
               and
               that
               there
               was
               no
               King
               really
               reigning
               ,
               and
               who
               ever
               took
               him
               out
               of
               the
               way
               would
               do
               a
               meritorious
               action
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               was
               that
               that
               said
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Name
               the
               persons
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Father
               Anderton
               ,
               Rector
               of
               the
               Colledge
               ,
               who
               was
               a
               very
               good
               Scholar
               ,
               Father
               Mumford
               ,
               and
               one
               Father
               Campion
               ,
               but
               chiefly
               one
               Father
               Southwell
               ,
               one
               of
               the
               chief
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               .
               And
               I
               doubting
               of
               the
               truth
               of
               that
               Opinion
               ,
               they
               did
               shew
               me
               several
               of
               their
               Books
               there
               ,
               and
               directed
               me
               to
               some
               passages
               of
               
               
                 Mariana
                 ,
                 Vasquez
              
               and
               Bellarmine
               ,
               which
               I
               have
               since
               published
               to
               the
               world
               ,
               wherein
               they
               did
               assert
               it
               as
               a
               true
               Doctrine
               ,
               and
               as
               Christian
               Doctrine
               ,
               what
               the
               Fathers
               told
               me
               ;
               and
               this
               was
               never
               condemned
               at
               Rome
               .
               Besides
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               when
               I
               was
               coming
               from
               Rome
               ,
               with
               my
               Faculty
               and
               License
               signed
               by
               Cardinal
               Barberino
               ,
               who
               generally
               conducts
               ,
               or
               causes
               to
               be
               conducted
               all
               Papists
               to
               take
               their
               leave
               of
               the
               Pope
               ;
               and
               before
               we
               came
               away
               (
               for
               there
               were
               five
               or
               six
               of
               us
               together
               )
               for
               a
               whole
               month
               these
               Fathers
               were
               exhorting
               us
               ,
               That
               we
               were
               not
               obliged
               to
               obey
               the
               King
               of
               England
               ,
               and
               that
               in
               all
               private
               Confessions
               we
               were
               to
               instruct
               all
               persons
               that
               we
               thought
               were
               capable
               of
               any
               design
               ,
               That
               they
               should
               use
               all
               their
               endeavours
               for
               promoting
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               .
               I
               coming
               into
               England
               ,
               made
               my
               application
               to
               Dr.
               Perrott
               ,
               who
               belonged
               to
               the
               Portugal
               Ambassador
               ,
               and
               was
               chief
               of
               the
               Popish
               Clergy
               in
               England
               :
               I
               was
               kept
               there
               some
               months
               ,
               to
               say
               Mass
               in
               his
               Chappel
               ;
               and
               afterwards
               I
               was
               sent
               into
               the
               North
               ,
               (
               where
               there
               were
               abundance
               of
               Jesuits
               and
               Fryers
               )
               to
               one
               Mr.
               
               Jenison's
               House
               ,
               where
               knowing
               the
               Principles
               of
               these
               people
               ,
               I
               made
               it
               my
               business
               to
               rout
               these
               Jesuits
               away
               ,
               especially
               out
               of
               Mr.
               
               Jenison's
               House
               ,
               who
               had
               a
               Kinsman
               of
               his
               own
               that
               was
               a
               Jesuit
               ,
               and
               used
               to
               serve
               him
               in
               his
               House
               ,
               and
               great
               complaint
               was
               made
               against
               me
               ;
               and
               there
               was
               one
               Mr.
               Smith
               ,
               otherwise
               Serjeant
               ,
               in
               the
               North
               ,
               who
               gave
               me
               intimation
               of
               it
               ;
               ond
               to
               whom
               I
               wrote
               to
               satisfie
               him
               and
               the
               Clergy
               ,
               of
               the
               grounds
               and
               reasons
               why
               I
               routed
               them
               away
               ;
               which
               if
               he
               be
               in
               England
               now
               ,
               he
               can
               justifie
               .
               Upon
               this
               ,
               I
               received
               a
               smart
               Letter
               ,
               as
               a
               kind
               of
               Reprimand
               for
               my
               doing
               so
               ;
               and
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               That
               though
               they
               did
               agree
               with
               me
               in
               Doctrine
               ,
               yet
               they
               would
               endeavour
               what
               they
               could
               to
               bring
               in
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               .
               And
               taxed
               me
               sharply
               for
               appearing
               against
               it
               .
               I
               told
               him
               how
               the
               Jesuits
               perverted
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               ;
               and
               that
               by
               that
               means
               they
               would
               be
               the
               chief
               men
               in
               England
               ,
               though
               there
               were
               none
               of
               their
               Order
               till
               Queen
               Elizabeths
               time
               .
               Besides
               ,
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               Rome
               I
               saw
               
               Coleman's
               Letters
               ,
               and
               read
               them
               once
               a
               month
               ,
               as
               I
               believe
               ;
               wherein
               he
               gave
               us
               intelligence
               of
               several
               passages
               that
               happened
               in
               Court
               ;
               how
               the
               Duke
               and
               the
               Queen
               ,
               and
               the
               chief
               of
               the
               Nobility
               were
               of
               their
               side
               ;
               how
               they
               carried
               matters
               several
               times
               ;
               the
               ways
               my
               Lord
               Clifford
               did
               use
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Godolphin
              
               ,
               to
               effect
               the
               work
               ;
               and
               that
               they
               did
               not
               question
               but
               they
               should
               get
               my
               Lord
               Treasurer
               Danby
               on
               their
               side
               too
               .
               This
               was
               in
               
               Coleman's
               Letters
               ,
               and
               he
               had
               so
               much
               allowance
               for
               his
               Intelligence
               .
               These
               Letters
               of
               his
               I
               read
               several
               times
               in
               the
               Colledge
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               afterwards
               when
               I
               came
               from
               Rome
               ,
               I
               saw
               Abbot
               Montague
               again
               ,
               and
               he
               said
               he
               was
               very
               glad
               to
               see
               me
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               was
               a
               Priest
               ;
               well
               but
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               what
               am
               I
               the
               better
               ?
               where
               is
               the
               Employment
               you
               promised
               me
               when
               I
               should
               come
               into
               England
               ?
               He
               told
               me
               I
               should
               have
               it
               very
               soon
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               very
               glad
               that
               I
               had
               not
               made
               my self
               a
               Jesuit
               ;
               and
               he
               recommended
               me
               to
               Dr.
               Goffe
               ,
               Confessor
               to
               the
               Queen
               Mother
               ;
               who
               said
               ,
               he
               would
               do
               any
               thing
               in
               the
               world
               for
               me
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               not
               doubt
               but
               he
               should
               get
               a
               preferment
               for
               me
               ;
               which
               Dr.
               Goffe
               is
               now
               
               living
               .
               Truly
               when
               I
               came
               into
               England
               I
               found
               all
               the
               Popish
               Clergy
               of
               England
               ,
               that
               I
               discoursed
               with
               ,
               of
               the
               same
               opinion
               ,
               that
               they
               did
               not
               doubt
               but
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               would
               soon
               come
               in
               .
               And
               besides
               ,
               in
               the
               North
               there
               was
               gathering
               of
               Money
               ,
               in
               which
               I
               was
               ordered
               to
               be
               one
               of
               the
               chief
               men
               ;
               but
               I
               was
               against
               it
               :
               I
               told
               them
               I
               would
               do
               nothing
               in
               it
               ,
               I
               thought
               it
               was
               illegal
               to
               send
               any
               Money
               beyond
               Sea
               :
               they
               told
               me
               it
               was
               charity
               only
               to
               repair
               the
               College
               at
               Doway
               :
               I
               told
               them
               it
               was
               strange
               that
               there
               should
               be
               so
               much
               Money
               raised
               only
               to
               repair
               one
               College
               which
               would
               serve
               three
               or
               four
               Colleges
               ;
               and
               I
               perswaded
               Mr.
               Jenison
               and
               all
               other
               persons
               I
               had
               to
               do
               with
               ,
               not
               to
               meddle
               with
               it
               .
               As
               to
               this
               raising
               of
               the
               Money
               ,
               I
               conceive
               it
               may
               be
               inferr'd
               ,
               it
               was
               for
               some
               other
               private
               business
               ;
               and
               I
               believe
               ,
               was
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               the
               design
               .
               As
               for
               the
               Gentleman
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               I
               know
               nothing
               of
               my
               own
               particular
               knowledge
               ,
               but
               only
               this
               ,
               Therewas
               one
               
                 Thomas
                 Smith
              
               ,
               Sir
               Edward
               Smith's
               Brother
               ,
               that
               lived
               at
               a
               place
               not
               far
               off
               the
               place
               where
               I
               lived
               ,
               who
               was
               one
               that
               contributed
               in
               paying
               the
               Money
               that
               was
               then
               Collecting
               :
               he
               was
               the
               man
               that
               writ
               a
               Letter
               up
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               to
               complain
               of
               two
               or
               three
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               that
               were
               active
               against
               Popery
               ,
               upon
               which
               there
               was
               one
               that
               was
               turned
               out
               ,
               that
               I
               think
               is
               now
               of
               the
               Honourable
               House
               of
               Commons
               —
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Name
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Sir
               
                 Henry
                 Calverley
              
               .
               The
               other
               was
               not
               turned
               out
               .
               So
               I
               asked
               Smith
               ,
               when
               I
               was
               lately
               in
               the
               Country
               ,
               about
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               heard
               a
               rumor
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Letter
               of
               this
               Mr.
               Smiths
               found
               in
               my
               Lord
               Staffords
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               I
               was
               told
               it
               by
               a
               Parliament
               Man
               ,
               one
               Collonel
               Tempest
               :
               So
               said
               I
               to
               him
               ,
               now
               you
               will
               be
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot.
               No
               said
               he
               ,
               I
               care
               not
               for
               that
               Letter
               ,
               it
               will
               signifie
               nothing
               ;
               for
               my
               Lord
               won't
               keep
               by
               him
               any
               thing
               of
               any
               moment
               .
               I
               asked
               him
               what
               he
               knew
               about
               my
               Lord
               ;
               he
               told
               me
               he
               writ
               another
               Letter
               to
               my
               Lord
               to
               know
               whether
               he
               would
               make
               a
               conveyance
               of
               his
               Estate
               away
               ,
               and
               whether
               he
               apprehended
               they
               were
               in
               danger
               :
               And
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               his
               Lordships
               answer
               was
               ,
               that
               several
               did
               so
               ,
               but
               he
               would
               not
               ,
               for
               he
               expected
               some
               sudden
               change
               or
               alteration
               :
               I
               asked
               him
               what
               change
               or
               alteration
               he
               understood
               by
               it
               .
               Sir
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               what
               can
               be
               understood
               by
               it
               ,
               but
               an
               alteration
               of
               the
               Government
               and
               Religion
               ?
               I
               am
               sure
               said
               he
               ,
               my
               Lord
               is
               so
               wise
               a
               Man
               ,
               that
               he
               would
               not
               write
               so
               without
               some
               ground
               .
               This
               is
               all
               I
               can
               say
               to
               the
               Gentleman
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               and
               this
               is
               true
               by
               the
               Oath
               I
               have
               taken
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               observe
               Mr.
               Smith
               in
               the
               beginning
               of
               his
               Testimony
               (
               speaking
               of
               the
               Discourse
               he
               had
               at
               Rome
               )
               said
               ,
               they
               told
               him
               there
               was
               one
               in
               the
               way
               ;
               I
               presume
               't
               is
               not
               uneasy
               to
               conjecture
               who
               was
               that
               one
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               It
               was
               surely
               the
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               But
               we
               would
               rather
               have
               it
               explained
               by
               him
               himself
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Father
               Anderton
               ,
               and
               Father
               Southwell
               ,
               did
               say
               that
               the
               King
               was
               a
               good
               man
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               not
               for
               their
               turn
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               the
               only
               man
               that
               stood
               in
               the
               way
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Did
               they
               name
               the
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               it
               was
               the
               common
               Discourse
               all
               over
               the
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               Mr.
               Smith
               in
               the
               next
               place
               may
               give
               an
               account
               of
               the
               methods
               they
               were
               to
               use
               to
               accomplish
               this
               design
               ,
               the
               firing
               of
               the
               City
               ,
               and
               the
               rest
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               As
               to
               the
               burning
               of
               London
               I
               heard
               nothing
               beyond
               Seas
               at
               all
               but
               this
               ,
               it
               was
               discoursed
               that
               the
               Papists
               did
               it
               ,
               and
               the
               like
               ,
               but
               they
               denied
               it
               ,
               and
               they
               said
               it
               came
               accidentally
               in
               a
               Bakers
               House
               ;
               but
               this
               I
               have
               often
               heard
               them
               say
               that
               it
               was
               no
               great
               matter
               if
               it
               had
               been
               all
               burnt
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               more
               Questions
               yet
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               we
               have
               done
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               concluded
               your
               Evidence
               ,
               Sir
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               will
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               how
               long
               ago
               it
               was
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               since
               he
               was
               made
               a
               Priest
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               with
               your
               Lordships
               leave
               ,
               no
               man
               is
               bound
               to
               answer
               a
               Question
               whereby
               he
               shall
               accuse
               himself
               ;
               therefore
               under
               favour
               the
               Question
               is
               somewhat
               harsh
               ,
               and
               we
               demand
               your
               Judgment
               in
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               the
               Question
               your
               Lordship
               would
               have
               asked
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               not
               ask
               it
               since
               't
               is
               an
               offence
               ,
               but
               did
               not
               he
               say
               he
               said
               Mass
               ,
               pray
               how
               long
               ago
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               will
               ask
               him
               a
               Question
               ,
               Are
               not
               you
               a
               Protestant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               have
               you
               been
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               been
               a
               Protestant
               near
               upon
               two
               Years
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               ago
               before
               were
               you
               perverted
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               Some
               six
               or
               seven
               Years
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               is
               nine
               Years
               .
               That
               was
               I
               suppose
               about
               (
               71.
               )
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Smith
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               always
               bred
               a
               Protestant
               ,
               and
               was
               so
               abroad
               till
               I
               went
               towards
               Rome
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               It
               is
               not
               criminal
               to
               have
               been
               a
               Priest
               ,
               if
               he
               have
               conformed
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               any
               more
               Questions
               to
               ask
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               never
               saw
               him
               before
               ,
               he
               may
               be
               as
               honest
               a
               Gentleman
               for
               ought
               I
               know
               as
               any
               one
               here
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Then
               if
               your
               Lordship
               have
               no
               more
               Questions
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               he
               may
               withdraw
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               The
               next
               Witness
               we
               produce
               is
               to
               the
               general
               still
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               Mr.
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Is
               he
               only
               to
               speak
               to
               the
               general
               ,
               or
               to
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               To
               the
               general
               ,
               we
               shall
               tell
               your
               Lordship
               when
               we
               come
               to
               the
               particulars
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               with
               your
               Lordships
               favour
               ,
               we
               have
               opened
               our
               Case
               ,
               first
               ,
               that
               we
               would
               go
               on
               with
               the
               general
               ,
               while
               we
               are
               upon
               that
               head
               we
               will
               only
               call
               those
               that
               speak
               to
               the
               general
               ,
               but
               it
               may
               happen
               that
               one
               Witness
               may
               speak
               to
               both
               ;
               but
               we
               shall
               divide
               his
               Testimony
               when
               we
               come
               to
               observe
               upon
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               take
               leave
               to
               acquaint
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               hath
               but
               a
               low
               voice
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               hear
               him
               without
               a
               Command
               of
               Silence
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 by
                 Proclamation
                 ,
                 and
                 Mr.
                 Dugdale
                 sworn
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               take
               notice
               ,
               We
               call
               you
               now
               only
               to
               the
               general
               part
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               what
               Discourses
               you
               have
               heard
               from
               Priests
               in
               general
               concerning
               any
               part
               of
               the
               Plot.
               And
               you
               are
               not
               to
               give
               your
               particular
               Evidence
               against
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               till
               we
               call
               you
               thereunto
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               Sir
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               About
               fifteen
               or
               sixteen
               Years
               I
               have
               been
               acquainted
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Design
               carrying
               on
               for
               the
               bringing
               in
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               .
               I
               have
               at
               several
               times
               ,
               by
               the
               means
               of
               my
               Ghostly
               Father
               ,
               that
               was
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               been
               acquainted
               ,
               that
               there
               were
               several
               Lords
               ,
               and
               several
               Priests
               in
               several
               places
               in
               England
               that
               were
               to
               carry
               it
               on
               ,
               that
               is
               ,
               they
               were
               to
               have
               Mony
               and
               Arms
               ready
               for
               those
               that
               wanted
               against
               the
               death
               of
               the
               King.
               I
               have
               seen
               several
               Letters
               which
               have
               come
               from
               
                 Paris
                 ,
                 Rome
              
               ,
               and
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               all
               relating
               to
               this
               ,
               to
               incourage
               Mr.
               Evers
               .
               and
               that
               he
               should
               go
               on
               to
               incourage
               the
               rest
               that
               were
               ingaged
               .
               For
               that
               purpose
               I
               read
               some
               of
               them
               ,
               and
               intercepted
               them
               ,
               because
               they
               were
               all
               directed
               to
               me
               .
               Mr.
               Evers
               hath
               sent
               me
               upon
               Messages
               ,
               sometimes
               by
               Letters
               ,
               and
               sometimes
               by
               word
               of
               mouth
               ,
               and
               all
               tended
               for
               the
               introducing
               of
               their
               Religion
               ,
               that
               all
               should
               be
               ready
               with
               Money
               and
               Arms
               against
               the
               Kings
               Death
               .
               For
               I
               did
               hear
               nothing
               till
               of
               late
               about
               the
               killing
               of
               the
               King.
               In
               particular
               ,
               there
               came
               one
               Letter
               to
               Evers
               ,
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               to
               shew
               that
               things
               went
               on
               well
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               and
               hoped
               they
               did
               so
               here
               .
               I
               saw
               another
               time
               some
               Letters
               which
               were
               also
               transmitted
               to
               my
               hands
               by
               a
               Messenger
               that
               came
               from
               Boscobel
               ,
               which
               did
               come
               from
               Paris
               ,
               and
               so
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               from
               whence
               they
               came
               to
               Harcourt
               ,
               and
               Harcourt
               had
               delivered
               the
               Letters
               to
               have
               the
               opinion
               of
               some
               Lords
               :
               All
               which
               contained
               advice
               which
               they
               had
               received
               from
               Paris
               ,
               which
               they
               counted
               extraordinary
               good
               .
               The
               purport
               of
               
               these
               Letters
               were
               to
               shew
               there
               was
               no
               way
               could
               be
               more
               likely
               to
               do
               their
               Work
               ,
               than
               if
               any
               sudden
               death
               should
               happen
               to
               the
               King
               then
               to
               throw
               it
               upon
               the
               Presbyterians
               ,
               who
               had
               killed
               the
               old
               King
               ,
               and
               were
               likeliest
               to
               be
               thought
               to
               have
               done
               this
               ,
               and
               so
               they
               might
               easily
               get
               the
               Protestants
               ,
               those
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               to
               join
               with
               the
               Papists
               against
               the
               Presbyterians
               ,
               who
               would
               by
               that
               become
               odious
               ,
               and
               so
               should
               weaken
               the
               party
               the
               more
               easily
               to
               accomplish
               their
               design
               .
               I
               have
               of
               late
               several
               times
               been
               in
               company
               with
               Priests
               and
               other
               Gentlemen
               in
               the
               Country
               ,
               when
               they
               have
               had
               Consultations
               both
               for
               the
               introducing
               their
               own
               Religion
               ,
               aud
               taking
               away
               the
               Kings
               life
               ,
               which
               they
               did
               always
               intend
               to
               be
               about
               
                 November
                 ,
                 December
              
               ,
               or
               January
               (
               78.
               )
               It
               was
               late
               in
               the
               Year
               ,
               but
               all
               that
               Year
               (
               78.
               )
               this
               was
               their
               Consultation
               .
               I
               have
               been
               sent
               to
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               some
               of
               them
               ,
               particularly
               to
               Mr.
               Vavasor
               and
               Mr.
               Gavan
               for
               some
               Moneys
               ,
               for
               there
               was
               a
               general
               Collection
               ,
               and
               there
               was
               the
               sum
               of
               five
               hundred
               pounds
               at
               one
               time
               which
               I
               received
               ,
               and
               gave
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               and
               he
               returned
               it
               to
               London
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               this
               design
               ,
               and
               for
               discharging
               an
               account
               of
               Arms
               and
               things
               received
               from
               beyond
               Sea.
               And
               it
               was
               agreed
               that
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               and
               others
               ,
               should
               go
               in
               October
               1678.
               to
               dispose
               of
               the
               Arms
               which
               they
               had
               so
               received
               ,
               some
               here
               ,
               and
               some
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               to
               the
               value
               I
               heard
               say
               of
               30000.
               
               Moreover
               I
               did
               hear
               that
               they
               were
               to
               have
               men
               raised
               there
               as
               well
               as
               here
               .
               So
               I
               have
               heard
               from
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Gavan
               and
               others
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               been
               also
               by
               when
               it
               hath
               been
               discoursed
               that
               the
               King
               of
               France
               was
               acquainted
               with
               all
               these
               Designs
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               would
               furnish
               us
               with
               men
               ,
               and
               should
               not
               be
               wanting
               with
               all
               other
               aid
               and
               assistance
               ,
               if
               there
               should
               be
               any
               alteration
               ,
               if
               the
               King
               should
               die
               or
               be
               taken
               away
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               :
               I
               have
               been
               several
               times
               put
               upon
               to
               make
               Foot-Races
               to
               draw
               people
               together
               ,
               that
               they
               might
               the
               better
               have
               Discourses
               together
               without
               suspicion
               .
               I
               was
               likewise
               put
               in
               trust
               by
               the
               Jesuits
               all
               the
               while
               the
               Plot
               was
               carrying
               on
               ,
               and
               particularly
               for
               two
               years
               ,
               all
               the
               Letters
               relating
               to
               the
               Plot
               came
               to
               my
               hand
               ,
               some
               of
               which
               I
               opened
               ,
               and
               some
               I
               kept
               in
               my
               own
               hands
               ,
               and
               particularly
               I
               had
               one
               that
               came
               to
               my
               hands
               which
               was
               about
               the
               Death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               for
               when
               I
               carried
               it
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               There
               was
               one
               of
               our
               Enemies
               taken
               out
               of
               the
               way
               ;
               and
               it
               was
               contained
               in
               the
               Letter
               ,
               
                 This
                 night
                 Sir
              
               Edmondbury
               Godfrey
               
                 is
                 dispatched
              
               ;
               which
               by
               the
               date
               of
               it
               was
               the
               12.
               of
               October
               1678.
               
               I
               told
               him
               that
               that
               would
               prove
               a
               discouragement
               to
               us
               ,
               and
               would
               be
               the
               ruine
               of
               all
               the
               Design
               ;
               he
               said
               ,
               not
               so
               ,
               it
               would
               rather
               prove
               otherwise
               ,
               for
               he
               was
               one
               that
               was
               active
               in
               punishing
               lewd
               and
               debauched
               persons
               ,
               and
               it
               would
               rather
               be
               put
               upon
               them
               than
               us
               ,
               as
               done
               out
               of
               Revenge
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Pray
               Sir
               speak
               the
               particular
               time
               when
               that
               Letter
               came
               into
               Staffordshire
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               The
               14.
               of
               October
               ,
               1678.
               which
               was
               Monday
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               The
               date
               of
               it
               pray
               tell
               us
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               The
               12.
               of
               October
               1678.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               The
               very
               night
               that
               it
               was
               done
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Likewise
               when
               I
               did
               hear
               there
               was
               like
               to
               be
               an
               alteration
               in
               the
               Government
               ,
               and
               having
               such
               fair
               promises
               ,
               I
               was
               incouraged
               to
               it
               ,
               and
               was
               very
               willing
               to
               contribute
               to
               the
               Design
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               then
               make
               over
               an
               Estate
               which
               I
               had
               of
               four
               hundred
               pound
               value
               for
               that
               purpose
               ,
               and
               for
               the
               praying
               for
               my
               Soul.
               And
               when
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               and
               I
               should
               come
               to
               Account
               ,
               as
               there
               was
               money
               over
               and
               above
               due
               to
               me
               ,
               I
               did
               likewise
               promise
               ,
               because
               I
               saw
               money
               would
               be
               wanting
               ,
               I
               would
               give
               them
               a
               hundred
               pound
               more
               .
               There
               were
               several
               other
               Gentlemen
               ,
               as
               Mr.
               Heveningham
               ,
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               Mr.
               Draycott
               ,
               Mr.
               Howard
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Gerard
               ,
               who
               did
               to
               my
               knowledge
               contribute
               towards
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               this
               Charge
               ,
               for
               defraying
               of
               Money
               and
               raising
               Arms
               ,
               and
               paying
               for
               them
               .
               And
               I
               have
               seen
               Letters
               from
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               that
               have
               been
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               that
               all
               things
               have
               been
               ready
               as
               to
               the
               Arms
               ,
               and
               there
               only
               wanted
               Orders
               how
               they
               should
               be
               disposed
               of
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               been
               several
               times
               brought
               to
               the
               Oath
               of
               Secrecy
               for
               fear
               I
               should
               disclose
               it
               ,
               and
               particularly
               that
               time
               that
               I
               went
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               Astons
               ,
               which
               was
               on
               a
               Monday
               morning
               ,
               Mr.
               Evers
               gave
               it
               me
               about
               the
               18.
               or
               19.
               of
               November
               ,
               1678.
               
               And
               I
               did
               then
               promise
               by
               all
               the
               promises
               I
               could
               make
               ,
               and
               upon
               the
               Sacrament
               in
               his
               Chamber
               ,
               that
               I
               would
               not
               disclose
               it
               ;
               but
               having
               others
               to
               advise
               me
               in
               it
               ,
               such
               as
               could
               better
               do
               it
               ,
               that
               told
               me
               such
               Oaths
               were
               better
               broken
               than
               kept
               ,
               and
               thereupon
               I
               came
               to
               discover
               the
               thing
               ,
               which
               I
               have
               done
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               knowledge
               .
               I
               am
               very
               loath
               to
               charge
               my
               memory
               in
               particular
               ,
               about
               times
               ,
               or
               how
               many
               were
               in
               company
               ,
               but
               those
               that
               I
               am
               sure
               of
               ;
               but
               there
               hath
               been
               in
               company
               at
               the
               Consultation
               several
               times
               ,
               Mr.
               Heveningham
               ,
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               Mr.
               Vavasor
               ,
               Mr.
               Petre
               ,
               Mr.
               Howard
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               himself
               ;
               when
               there
               hath
               been
               speech
               about
               the
               Design
               ,
               for
               the
               introducing
               of
               Religion
               ,
               and
               for
               taking
               order
               about
               money
               to
               buy
               Arms
               ,
               and
               particularly
               when
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               by
               about
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               that
               was
               about
               September
               1678.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               you
               speak
               of
               leavying
               Arms
               ,
               and
               of
               the
               Oath
               of
               Secrecy
               that
               was
               given
               you
               ,
               were
               there
               not
               other
               Spiritual
               Weapons
               used
               ?
               Was
               there
               not
               an
               Indulgence
               ,
               or
               such
               a
               thing
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               There
               was
               an
               Indulgence
               about
               78.
               or
               thereabouts
               ,
               which
               came
               through
               Irelands
               hands
               ,
               transmitted
               from
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               and
               so
               to
               Mr
               Evers
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Gavan
               was
               put
               on
               to
               publish
               it
               ,
               which
               he
               did
               one
               time
               at
               Boscobel
               .
               And
               it
               was
               likewise
               at
               all
               private
               Chappels
               ,
               that
               whosoever
               ,
               was
               active
               for
               the
               introducing
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               ,
               or
               killing
               the
               King
               ,
               should
               have
               a
               free
               Pardon
               of
               all
               his
               sins
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Pray
               declare
               what
               Arguments
               have
               been
               used
               by
               your
               Priests
               ,
               to
               induce
               you
               to
               this
               Design
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Raise
               your
               voice
               ,
               that
               we
               may
               hear
               what
               you
               ask
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               We
               would
               know
               what
               Arguments
               have
               been
               used
               to
               perswade
               to
               this
               design
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               They
               have
               told
               me
               in
               their
               Meetings
               ,
               the
               King
               was
               an
               Excommunicated
               Heretick
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               out
               of
               the
               Pale
               of
               the
               Church
               ,
               therefore
               it
               was
               lawful
               to
               kill
               him
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               no
               more
               than
               the
               killing
               of
               a
               dog
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               further
               ,
               what
               he
               hath
               heard
               about
               a
               Massacre
               that
               was
               intended
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               heard
               of
               any
               Massacre
               that
               was
               to
               be
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
            
             
               I
               have
               heard
               that
               about
               the
               time
               the
               King
               should
               be
               killed
               ,
               several
               should
               be
               provided
               with
               Arms
               ,
               and
               such
               Instruments
               ,
               and
               rise
               all
               of
               a
               sudden
               at
               an
               hours
               warning
               ,
               and
               to
               come
               in
               upon
               the
               Protestants
               ,
               and
               cut
               their
               Throats
               ;
               that
               was
               one
               proposal
               :
               and
               if
               any
               did
               escape
               ,
               there
               should
               be
               an
               Army
               to
               cut
               them
               off
               in
               their
               flight
               ,
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               further
               ,
               whether
               he
               ever
               knew
               or
               heard
               of
               Mr.
               Oates
               and
               Bedloe
               till
               the
               Plot
               was
               detected
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               heard
               of
               them
               from
               Priests
               ,
               as
               messengers
               intrusted
               by
               them
               ,
               but
               no
               otherwise
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               did
               you
               hear
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               formerly
               declared
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               when
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Before
               the
               discovery
               or
               after
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Before
               the
               discovery
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               reason
               of
               the
               Question
               ,
               and
               the
               use
               we
               make
               of
               it
               is
               this
               ,
               We
               charge
               the
               Papists
               with
               the
               Conspiracy
               of
               a
               Plot
               ,
               and
               they
               charge
               our
               Witnesses
               with
               a
               Conspiracy
               to
               accuse
               :
               Now
               it
               appears
               ,
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               had
               not
               any
               knowledge
               of
               the
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               only
               had
               heard
               of
               them
               as
               persons
               concern'd
               ;
               so
               it
               could
               not
               possibly
               be
               a
               joint
               contrivance
               amongst
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               this
               Question
               ,
               Whether
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               hath
               seen
               any
               Letters
               from
               Whitebread
               to
               Evers
               ,
               and
               what
               instructions
               were
               in
               those
               Letters
               to
               Evers
               ,
               about
               the
               persons
               to
               be
               concerned
               ,
               and
               what
               kind
               of
               Creatures
               he
               was
               to
               imploy
               in
               this
               great
               Design
               of
               theirs
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               saw
               a
               Letter
               from
               Whitebread
               ,
               to
               give
               Mr
               Evers
               a
               caution
               who
               he
               did
               employ
               or
               trust
               in
               the
               Design
               ;
               for
               he
               told
               him
               there
               had
               been
               good
               care
               taken
               therein
               hitherto
               ;
               and
               it
               were
               no
               matter
               whether
               they
               were
               Gentlemen
               of
               Quality
               or
               not
               ,
               so
               they
               were
               stout
               and
               trusty
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               should
               they
               be
               trusty
               for
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               For
               the
               killing
               the
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               that
               said
               plainly
               in
               the
               Letter
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               To
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               in
               those
               very
               words
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               there
               no
               Cypher
               or
               Character
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               There
               was
               no
               Cypher
               or
               Character
               that
               I
               know
               of
               ,
               nothing
               but
               two
               letters
               for
               his
               Name
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               may
               give
               an
               account
               of
               those
               Papers
               he
               speaks
               of
               ;
               What
               became
               of
               them
               ,
               and
               tell
               us
               the
               reason
               why
               they
               were
               not
               produced
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               when
               I
               was
               by
               the
               instruction
               of
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               to
               take
               my
               flight
               ,
               I
               conveyed
               all
               my
               Papers
               ,
               that
               either
               belonged
               to
               him
               or
               my self
               ,
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               carryed
               them
               to
               an
               House
               not
               far
               remote
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ,
               and
               by
               the
               help
               of
               two
               Maids
               —
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Name
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               
                 Elizabeth
                 Eld
              
               ,
               and
               
                 Anne
                 Eld.
              
               And
               they
               two
               did
               prepare
               a
               Fire
               in
               their
               Chamber
               for
               that
               purpose
               ,
               and
               they
               assisted
               me
               to
               burn
               them
               .
               I
               was
               in
               a
               great
               consternation
               ,
               and
               great
               fear
               ,
               in
               regard
               I
               must
               fly
               and
               abscond
               my self
               ;
               and
               indeed
               I
               did
               it
               with
               Tears
               in
               my
               Eyes
               .
               And
               whilst
               we
               were
               burning
               of
               the
               Papers
               ,
               one
               of
               them
               spy'd
               a
               little
               Paper-book
               ,
               by
               chance
               ,
               and
               she
               asked
               me
               ,
               whether
               that
               should
               be
               burnt
               ;
               I
               told
               her
               ,
               no
               ;
               burn
               not
               that
               ,
               for
               there
               is
               no
               Treason
               in
               it
               .
               With
               that
               one
               of
               them
               ask'd
               me
               ,
               is
               there
               any
               Treason
               in
               the
               rest
               ?
               and
               I
               put
               them
               off
               ,
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               knowledge
               ,
               and
               would
               not
               give
               them
               a
               direct
               answer
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Why
               did
               you
               consent
               to
               burn
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Because
               I
               knew
               they
               would
               discover
               me
               ,
               and
               others
               that
               were
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               observe
               the
               burning
               of
               the
               Letters
               was
               before
               he
               discovered
               the
               Plot
               ,
               or
               any
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sacheverell
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               desire
               he
               may
               be
               asked
               one
               Question
               ,
               he
               told
               your
               Lordships
               of
               the
               Letter
               that
               came
               into
               Staffordshire
               about
               the
               Death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmonbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               but
               he
               hath
               not
               told
               you
               of
               the
               reason
               why
               he
               was
               to
               be
               taken
               away
               .
               We
               desire
               he
               will
               let
               your
               Lordships
               know
               what
               reasons
               they
               gave
               for
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               desirous
               to
               know
               how
               things
               went
               ,
               being
               concerned
               as
               well
               as
               Mr.
               Evers
               ;
               and
               I
               asked
               what
               the
               reason
               was
               they
               took
               away
               his
               life
               ?
               Mr.
               Evers
               told
               me
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Message
               sent
               to
               Mr.
               Coleman
               ,
               to
               desire
               him
               that
               he
               would
               not
               reveal
               what
               he
               knew
               concerning
               the
               Plot
               ,
               or
               any
               thing
               of
               that
               nature
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sacheverell
               .
            
             
               From
               whom
               was
               that
               Message
               sent
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               From
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               .
               And
               Coleman
               did
               send
               word
               back
               again
               ,
               What
               was
               it
               the
               nearer
               ?
               for
               he
               had
               been
               so
               foolish
               as
               to
               reveal
               all
               to
               Sir
               
                 Edmondbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               who
               had
               promised
               to
               keep
               it
               all
               as
               a
               secret
               .
               But
               upon
               the
               Examination
               of
               Oates
               ,
               before
               Sir
               
                 Edmondbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               as
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ,
               he
               was
               afraid
               he
               would
               come
               in
               an
               Evidence
               against
               him
               ;
               and
               had
               shewn
               himself
               a
               little
               too
               eager
               ,
               which
               made
               Coleman
               afraid
               he
               would
               witness
               against
               him
               .
               And
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               did
               send
               word
               back
               again
               ,
               That
               if
               he
               would
               take
               care
               not
               to
               reveal
               but
               conceal
               it
               ,
               he
               should
               not
               come
               in
               against
               him
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               :
               And
               the
               next
               news
               we
               heard
               was
               the
               Letter
               that
               he
               was
               dispatched
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               give
               an
               account
               what
               assistance
               the
               Pope
               gave
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               this
               Design
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               heard
               the
               Pope
               had
               out
               of
               his
               Revenue
               promised
               several
               sums
               of
               money
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               this
               Plot
               ;
               and
               particularly
               that
               he
               would
               assist
               the
               poor
               distressed
               Irish
               ,
               with
               both
               Men
               and
               Money
               ;
               and
               there
               should
               not
               be
               any
               thing
               wanting
               on
               his
               part
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               done
               with
               him
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               think
               we
               have
               done
               with
               him
               as
               to
               the
               general
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               then
               what
               sums
               of
               money
               did
               the
               Pope
               contribute
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               sums
               of
               money
               did
               the
               Pope
               contribute
               to
               this
               Design
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               heard
               of
               several
               sums
               in
               general
               that
               he
               was
               to
               contribute
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               hear
               of
               any
               sum
               certain
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               know
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               I
               have
               heard
               sometimes
               of
               ten
               thousand
               Pound
               ,
               or
               some
               such
               sum
               .
               I
               have
               been
               told
               by
               a
               Servant
               ,
               that
               formerly
               belonged
               to
               my
               Lord
               
                 Stafford
                 ▪
              
               That
               the
               Popes
               daily
               income
               was
               twenty
               four
               thousand
               Pounds
               a
               day
               ;
               and
               that
               if
               he
               would
               do
               as
               he
               had
               promised
               ,
               he
               was
               able
               to
               do
               very
               much
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               They
               told
               you
               so
               ,
               you
               do
               not
               know
               it
               otherwise
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               We
               have
               done
               then
               with
               him
               :
               We
               call
               Mr.
               Prance
               next
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               Mr
               Prance
               would
               give
               us
               an
               account
               of
               what
               discourse
               he
               had
               with
               one
               Mr.
               Singleton
               a
               Priest
               ;
               and
               when
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Prance
               .
            
             
               I
               went
               to
               one
               Mr.
               Singleton
               ,
               a
               Priest
               ,
               at
               one
               
               Hall's
               in
               the
               year
               (
               78.
               )
               and
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               That
               he
               did
               not
               fear
               but
               in
               a
               little
               time
               to
               be
               a
               Priest
               in
               a
               Parish
               Church
               ;
               and
               that
               he
               would
               make
               no
               more
               to
               stab
               Forty
               Parliament
               Men
               ,
               than
               to
               eat
               his
               Dinner
               vhich
               he
               was
               at
               ,
               at
               that
               very
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Prance
               .
            
             
               At
               one
               
               Hall's
               ,
               a
               Cook
               in
               Ivy-lane
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Then
               call
               Dr.
               Oates
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             was
             sworn
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               examine
               Mr.
               Oates
               upon
               the
               general
               Plot
               ,
               or
               the
               particular
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Only
               to
               the
               General
               now
               ;
               and
               we
               desire
               him
               to
               take
               notice
               he
               is
               so
               to
               speak
               ,
               and
               to
               confine
               himself
               to
               that
               at
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oates
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               76
               )
               I
               was
               admitted
               into
               the
               service
               of
               the
               Duke
               of
               Norfolk
               ,
               as
               Chaplain
               in
               his
               House
               ,
               and
               there
               I
               came
               acquainted
               with
               one
               Bing
               ,
               that
               was
               a
               Priest
               in
               the
               House
               .
               And
               being
               acquainted
               with
               him
               ,
               there
               came
               one
               Kemish
               very
               often
               to
               visit
               him
               ,
               and
               one
               Singleton
               ,
               who
               told
               me
               that
               I
               
               should
               find
               that
               the
               Protestant
               Religion
               was
               upon
               its
               last
               legs
               ,
               and
               that
               it
               would
               become
               me
               ,
               and
               all
               men
               of
               my
               Coat
               (
               for
               then
               I
               professed
               my self
               a
               Minister
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               )
               to
               hasten
               betimes
               home
               to
               the
               Church
               of
               
                 Rome
                 .
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               having
               had
               strong
               suspicions
               for
               some
               years
               before
               ,
               of
               the
               great
               and
               apparent
               growth
               of
               Popery
               ;
               to
               satisfie
               my
               curiosity
               ,
               I
               pretended
               some
               doubts
               in
               my
               mind
               .
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               after
               some
               time
               had
               passed
               over
               ,
               &
               I
               had
               some
               conversation
               with
               these
               men
               ,
               I
               found
               they
               were
               not
               men
               for
               my
               turn
               ,
               because
               being
               regular
               men
               ,
               they
               were
               not
               men
               that
               had
               any
               great
               degree
               of
               Learning
               .
               Afterwards
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               met
               with
               one
               Hutchinson
               ;
               I
               found
               him
               a
               Saint-like
               man
               ,
               or
               one
               that
               was
               Religious
               for
               Religion
               sake
               ;
               and
               him
               I
               found
               not
               for
               my
               turn
               neither
               :
               For
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               my
               design
               was
               to
               deal
               with
               their
               Casuists
               ;
               that
               is
               ,
               those
               of
               the
               Society
               .
               After
               that
               I
               had
               obtained
               the
               favour
               from
               him
               ,
               to
               have
               some
               Conference
               with
               one
               of
               the
               Society
               ,
               I
               found
               they
               were
               the
               men
               for
               my
               turn
               ,
               because
               I
               found
               they
               were
               the
               cunning
               politick
               men
               ,
               and
               the
               men
               that
               could
               satisfie
               me
               .
               After
               that
               I
               had
               some
               Discourse
               with
               them
               ,
               I
               pretended
               to
               be
               convinced
               by
               their
               Arguments
               .
               And
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               after
               that
               I
               had
               thus
               acknowledged
               my
               Conviction
               ,
               I
               desired
               to
               be
               reconciled
               ;
               and
               accordingly
               on
               Ash-wednesday
               ,
               1676.
               
               I
               was
               reconciled
               .
               And
               soon
               after
               my
               Reconciliation
               ,
               Strange
               ,
               who
               was
               then
               Provincial
               of
               the
               Society
               ,
               did
               tell
               me
               much
               after
               this
               way
               ;
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               you
               are
               now
               reconciled
               to
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               and
               you
               must
               lay
               down
               your
               Ministry
               ,
               for
               your
               Ordination
               is
               invalid
               ,
               and
               you
               must
               look
               upon
               your self
               as
               no
               more
               than
               a
               Layman
               .
               Pray
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               now
               what
               course
               do
               you
               think
               to
               take
               ?
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               did
               desire
               to
               be
               one
               of
               their
               Society
               ,
               and
               to
               be
               admitted
               a
               Novice
               into
               their
               Order
               .
               He
               said
               ,
               it
               was
               a
               very
               honest
               request
               ,
               and
               a
               very
               honest
               desire
               ;
               and
               he
               said
               ,
               he
               would
               take
               some
               time
               to
               consider
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               he
               would
               take
               till
               the
               Saturday
               following
               .
               Saturday
               following
               I
               was
               sent
               for
               ,
               by
               one
               Fenwick
               :
               I
               lodged
               then
               in
               Barbican
               ,
               and
               Fenwick
               came
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               told
               me
               ,
               the
               Fathers
               were
               met
               at
               
               Wild-House
               ,
               and
               would
               speak
               with
               me
               .
               And
               he
               also
               told
               me
               ,
               they
               had
               granted
               my
               request
               ,
               and
               I
               should
               be
               admitted
               .
               After
               I
               was
               admitted
               ,
               they
               told
               me
               ,
               I
               had
               some
               years
               upon
               me
               ,
               and
               I
               could
               not
               undergo
               those
               burdens
               they
               put
               upon
               younger
               men
               .
               But
               what
               did
               I
               think
               of
               travelling
               ,
               and
               going
               beyond
               Sea
               to
               do
               their
               business
               ?
               I
               did
               agree
               to
               it
               ,
               and
               in
               April
               (
               77.
               )
               I
               went
               aboard
               one
               
                 Luke
                 Roch
              
               ,
               Master
               of
               the
               Bilboa
               Merchant
               ,
               bound
               for
               Bilboa
               ,
               having
               their
               Letters
               of
               Recommendation
               .
               After
               I
               arrived
               there
               ,
               which
               was
               on
               a
               Sunday
               ,
               in
               May
               or
               June
               ,
               )
               I
               can't
               tell
               which
               )
               I
               went
               the
               Friday
               following
               for
               Validolid
               in
               Castile
               ,
               and
               I
               got
               thither
               the
               Tuesday
               following
               ▪
               but
               by
               the
               way
               I
               opened
               certain
               Letters
               ,
               wherein
               was
               made
               mention
               of
               a
               disturbance
               designed
               in
               Scotland
               .
               And
               the
               Letters
               did
               express
               what
               hopes
               they
               had
               to
               effect
               their
               Design
               in
               England
               ,
               ●on
               the
               carrying
               on
               (
               as
               they
               worded
               it
               )
               the
               Catholick
               Cause
               ,
               and
               for
               the
               advancement
               of
               the
               interest
               of
               the
               Bishop
               of
               Rome
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               after
               I
               had
               arrived
               at
               Validolid
               ,
               there
               were
               Letters
               there
               got
               before
               me
               ,
               which
               were
               dated
               in
               May
               ,
               wherein
               was
               expressed
               news
               ,
               That
               the
               King
               was
               
               dispatched
               ,
               which
               was
               the
               cause
               of
               great
               joy
               to
               the
               Fathers
               there
               ;
               and
               afterwards
               Letters
               dated
               in
               May
               too
               (
               but
               towards
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               May
               )
               came
               ,
               That
               they
               were
               mistaken
               ,
               and
               desired
               the
               Fathers
               there
               ,
               to
               stifle
               that
               news
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               came
               Letters
               dated
               in
               June
               ,
               wherein
               they
               did
               give
               an
               account
               ,
               That
               they
               had
               procured
               one
               Beddingfield
               to
               be
               Confessor
               to
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               ;
               which
               Beddingfield
               by
               his
               interest
               might
               prevail
               much
               with
               the
               Duke
               ,
               in
               order
               to
               this
               Design
               .
               Letters
               came
               also
               in
               June
               from
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               which
               gave
               them
               an
               account
               ,
               That
               Father
               Beddingfield
               had
               assured
               them
               of
               the
               Dukes
               willingness
               to
               comply
               with
               them
               ,
               for
               the
               advancement
               of
               the
               Catholick
               Religion
               ,
               My
               Lords
               ,
               after
               I
               had
               stay'd
               some
               time
               there
               ,
               and
               had
               passed
               through
               the
               Country
               for
               the
               business
               of
               the
               Society
               ;
               I
               found
               that
               in
               the
               Court
               of
               Spain
               some
               Ministers
               of
               that
               Court
               had
               been
               very
               ready
               to
               advance
               Money
               ,
               which
               Money
               was
               returned
               for
               England
               ;
               and
               that
               the
               Father
               Provincial
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               of
               Castile
               ,
               by
               his
               care
               and
               industry
               had
               advanced
               Ten
               Thousand
               Pound
               ,
               which
               was
               promised
               to
               be
               paid
               in
               June
               following
               ,
               within
               a
               Twelvemonth
               after
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               July
               I
               received
               Letters
               out
               of
               England
               ,
               wherein
               an
               account
               was
               given
               there
               ,
               to
               the
               Fathers
               in
               Spain
               ,
               That
               they
               were
               sending
               them
               a
               Mission
               of
               Twelve
               Students
               ,
               Four
               whereof
               were
               to
               go
               to
               
                 Madrid
                 ▪
              
               and
               Eight
               to
               Validolid
               :
               the
               Conductors
               of
               these
               Twelve
               Students
               were
               ,
               one
               Father
               Crosse
               (
               that
               was
               his
               true
               Name
               )
               and
               one
               Father
               Mum●ord
               ,
               whose
               true
               Name
               was
               Armstrong
               .
               These
               Missioners
               arrived
               in
               December
               ,
               where
               they
               had
               a
               Sermon
               preached
               at
               their
               coming
               ,
               by
               this
               same
               Armstrong
               ,
               wherein
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               were
               declared
               to
               be
               Antichristian
               ,
               Heretical
               ,
               and
               Devillish
               ;
               in
               which
               the
               Kings
               Legitimacy
               was
               vilified
               and
               abused
               ;
               and
               that
               his
               Religion
               did
               intitle
               him
               to
               nothing
               but
               sudden
               death
               and
               destruction
               ,
               in
               that
               he
               appeared
               an
               enemy
               both
               to
               God
               and
               Man.
               These
               were
               the
               Contents
               of
               that
               Sermon
               ,
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               after
               the
               meeting
               with
               several
               Letters
               there
               ,
               in
               
                 July
                 ,
                 August
              
               ,
               and
               September
               ,
               in
               the
               Kingdom
               of
               Spain
               ,
               it
               was
               ordered
               ,
               I
               should
               return
               for
               England
               ;
               and
               in
               the
               month
               of
               November
               I
               came
               for
               England
               ,
               at
               which
               time
               I
               had
               Letters
               from
               the
               Provincial
               of
               Castile
               ,
               called
               by
               the
               Name
               of
               
                 Padre
                 Hieronymo
                 de
                 Corduba
              
               ,
               who
               did
               in
               his
               Letter
               assure
               the
               Provincial
               in
               England
               ,
               and
               the
               Fathers
               here
               ,
               That
               the
               ten
               thousand
               Pound
               should
               be
               paid
               (
               as
               I
               said
               hefore
               )
               in
               June
               following
               .
               When
               I
               came
               for
               England
               ,
               at
               London
               I
               was
               lodged
               at
               one
               
               Grigson's
               ,
               that
               lived
               in
               Drury-lane
               ,
               near
               the
               Sign
               of
               the
               Red-Lyon
               ,
               and
               there
               I
               lay
               till
               I
               went
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ;
               and
               by
               the
               Provincial
               and
               the
               Consultors
               of
               the
               Province
               ,
               I
               was
               ordered
               a
               maintenance
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               paid
               to
               this
               man
               for
               entertaining
               of
               me
               .
               I
               went
               and
               brought
               these
               Letters
               to
               this
               Strange
               ,
               and
               there
               was
               Father
               Keins
               ,
               lying
               ill
               upon
               
               Strange's
               Bed
               ,
               and
               Keins
               was
               saying
               ,
               he
               was
               mighty
               sorry
               for
               
                 honest
                 William
              
               ,
               (
               so
               they
               called
               the
               Russian
               that
               was
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               )
               that
               he
               had
               missed
               in
               his
               Enterprize
               :
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               I
               think
               good
               to
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               they
               were
               not
               so
               zealous
               for
               the
               destruction
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               till
               the
               King
               had
               refused
               Coleman
               the
               dissolving
               of
               the
               long
               Parliament
               ▪
               
               Then
               they
               were
               more
               intent
               upon
               it
               ,
               though
               they
               had
               several
               times
               attempted
               it
               ever
               since
               the
               Fire
               of
               London
               :
               but
               when
               Coleman
               was
               refused
               the
               Dissolution
               of
               the
               Long
               Parliament
               ,
               then
               were
               they
               more
               zealous
               for
               the
               Destruction
               of
               the
               King
               ;
               but
               the
               Design
               for
               the
               introducing
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               ,
               they
               have
               been
               carrying
               on
               some
               years
               before
               the
               Fire
               ,
               by
               those
               instruments
               some
               of
               whom
               are
               yet
               alive
               .
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               I
               left
               England
               in
               November
               old
               stile
               ,
               and
               December
               new
               stile
               ;
               for
               when
               I
               came
               to
               St.
               Omers
               it
               was
               (
               as
               near
               as
               I
               can
               remember
               )
               the
               9.
               or
               10.
               of
               December
               according
               to
               the
               stile
               of
               the
               place
               .
               I
               carryed
               with
               me
               a
               Packet
               of
               Letters
               from
               Strange
               the
               Provincial
               ,
               and
               other
               Fathers
               that
               were
               of
               the
               Consult
               for
               the
               Province
               of
               England
               to
               the
               Fathers
               at
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               wherein
               Strange
               did
               tell
               them
               ,
               that
               they
               had
               great
               hopes
               of
               their
               Design
               taking
               effect
               the
               next
               year
               ,
               but
               as
               yet
               it
               would
               not
               be
               effected
               ;
               he
               said
               ,
               therefore
               they
               at
               London
               thought
               it
               fit
               to
               suspend
               it
               till
               they
               saw
               what
               the
               Parliament
               would
               do
               .
               And
               he
               did
               in
               the
               same
               Letter
               declare
               ,
               That
               the
               Parliament
               would
               be
               about
               a
               long
               Bill
               that
               had
               been
               brought
               into
               the
               Commons
               House
               some
               Sessions
               before
               ,
               but
               he
               did
               not
               Question
               but
               that
               the
               Catholick
               Party
               would
               evade
               that
               Bill
               .
               And
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               in
               that
               year
               some
               time
               after
               ,
               we
               had
               a
               Letter
               from
               our
               New
               Provincial
               ,
               whose
               true
               Name
               was
               Whitebread
               ,
               and
               his
               counterfeit
               Name
               White
               .
               This
               Father
               writes
               to
               the
               Fathers
               at
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               and
               therein
               he
               does
               order
               one
               Conyers
               to
               preach
               upon
               St.
               Thomas
               of
               Canterburies
               Day
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               therein
               also
               tell
               them
               ,
               that
               he
               would
               be
               as
               zealous
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               the
               Design
               as
               his
               Predecessor
               had
               been
               ,
               and
               a
               Sermon
               was
               accordingly
               preached
               at
               the
               Sodality
               Church
               ,
               wherein
               after
               he
               had
               commended
               the
               Saint
               whose
               Day
               they
               celebrated
               for
               his
               great
               Vertues
               ,
               declaring
               how
               unworthily
               he
               was
               sacrificed
               ,
               he
               did
               inveigh
               against
               the
               Tyranny
               (
               as
               he
               called
               it
               )
               of
               temporal
               Princes
               ,
               and
               particularly
               of
               the
               King
               of
               England
               ,
               and
               when
               he
               came
               to
               speak
               of
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ,
               he
               declared
               ,
               that
               he
               looked
               upon
               them
               as
               Antichristian
               and
               Devillish
               ,
               and
               that
               it
               was
               fit
               to
               destroy
               all
               such
               as
               would
               countenance
               them
               .
               We
               have
               done
               with
               the
               year
               (
               77.
               )
               and
               we
               come
               now
               to
               January
               1678.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               speak
               of
               one
               Keins
               ,
               who
               (
               lying
               upon
               Stranges
               Bed
               )
               said
               he
               was
               sorry
               
                 honest
                 Will
              
               had
               missed
               his
               Enterprize
               :
               You
               have
               not
               explained
               who
               that
               
                 honest
                 Will
              
               was
               :
               explain
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               Grove
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               But
               about
               what
               did
               he
               say
               he
               was
               sorry
               for
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               That
               he
               had
               missed
               his
               Design
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               What
               was
               that
               missing
               of
               his
               Design
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               That
               he
               had
               not
               killed
               the
               King.
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               in
               January
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               mean
               according
               to
               the
               Foreign
               stile
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               according
               to
               the
               Foreign
               stile
               ,
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               we
               received
               Letters
               out
               of
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               there
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               found
               by
               the
               Contents
               of
               those
               Letters
               ,
               that
               they
               were
               as
               busie
               in
               Ireland
               as
               we
               were
               in
               England
               .
               We
               found
               there
               that
               the
               
               Talbots
               and
               other
               persons
               were
               very
               zealous
               in
               raising
               of
               Forces
               ,
               and
               were
               resolved
               to
               let
               in
               the
               French
               King
               ,
               provided
               that
               the
               Parliament
               should
               urge
               the
               King
               to
               break
               with
               France
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               likewise
               in
               January
               (
               as
               near
               as
               I
               can
               remember
               )
               Morgan
               was
               sent
               into
               Ireland
               ,
               as
               a
               Visitor
               (
               which
               is
               something
               a
               better
               place
               than
               a
               Provincial
               ,
               but
               only
               it
               is
               but
               temporary
               for
               the
               time
               he
               visits
               )
               and
               he
               returns
               in
               February
               or
               March
               ,
               and
               gives
               an
               account
               how
               ready
               the
               Irish
               were
               to
               vindicate
               their
               freedom
               ,
               and
               their
               Religion
               from
               the
               oppression
               of
               the
               English
               as
               they
               called
               it
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               February
               some
               were
               employed
               to
               go
               into
               some
               parts
               of
               Germany
               ,
               to
               Liege
               ,
               and
               to
               some
               parts
               of
               Flanders
               ,
               to
               see
               how
               the
               affairs
               there
               stood
               ,
               and
               how
               their
               Correspondencies
               stood
               ,
               to
               see
               whether
               there
               was
               not
               an
               interruption
               in
               the
               Correspondencies
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               upon
               their
               return
               they
               found
               ,
               that
               the
               Fathers
               at
               Ghent
               were
               inclined
               to
               take
               into
               this
               business
               the
               secular
               Clergy
               ,
               but
               the
               Fathers
               of
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               together
               with
               the
               Provincial
               ,
               did
               refuse
               the
               motion
               ,
               because
               the
               secular
               Clergy
               were
               more
               cowardly
               ,
               and
               sought
               themselves
               and
               not
               the
               Interest
               of
               the
               Church
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               March
               we
               received
               Letters
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               very
               shrewd
               attempt
               made
               upon
               the
               person
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               that
               the
               Flint
               of
               
               Pickering's
               Gun
               or
               Pistol
               was
               loose
               ,
               and
               his
               hand
               shaking
               ,
               the
               King
               did
               then
               escape
               ,
               for
               which
               he
               received
               a
               Discipline
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               a
               severe
               chiding
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               explain
               not
               the
               meaning
               of
               what
               you
               say
               ;
               that
               was
               not
               
                 honest
                 William
              
               ,
               for
               he
               you
               say
               was
               Grove
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               mean
               Pickering
               received
               the
               Discipline
               ,
               and
               William
               was
               chid
               ;
               for
               it
               was
               
               Pickering's
               Flint
               that
               was
               loose
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               was
               in
               March
               ,
               and
               at
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               March
               ,
               there
               comes
               a
               Letter
               from
               London
               ,
               in
               which
               there
               was
               a
               Summons
               to
               a
               Consult
               here
               in
               London
               ,
               and
               being
               summoned
               ,
               there
               went
               over
               eight
               or
               nine
               from
               St
               ,
               
                 Omers
                 ,
                 Liege
              
               ,
               and
               Ghent
               ,
               to
               this
               Consult
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               attend
               then
               in
               their
               journey
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               did
               that
               Summons
               come
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               The
               latter
               end
               of
               March
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               April
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               ;
               they
               had
               notice
               of
               it
               in
               England
               before
               ,
               but
               we
               had
               notice
               of
               it
               just
               when
               we
               were
               to
               come
               .
               I
               think
               it
               was
               in
               April
               ,
               as
               near
               as
               I
               can
               remember
               ,
               I
               cannot
               be
               certain
               in
               that
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               We
               did
               come
               to
               Town
               in
               April
               ,
               there
               the
               Consult
               was
               held
               ,
               it
               begun
               at
               the
               
                 White
                 Horse
              
               Tavern
               ,
               where
               they
               did
               consult
               about
               some
               things
               of
               the
               Society
               ,
               and
               afterwards
               they
               did
               adjourn
               into
               particular
               Societies
               ,
               where
               they
               did
               debate
               and
               resolve
               on
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               that
               Grove
               should
               have
               fifteen
               hundred
               pounds
               for
               his
               pains
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               being
               a
               Religious
               man
               should
               have
               thirty
               thousand
               Masses
               said
               for
               him
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               after
               staying
               in
               Town
               a
               while
               we
               returned
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               and
               after
               I
               had
               staid
               there
               some
               few
               days
               the
               new
               Provincial
               did
               begin
               to
               visit
               his
               Province
               ,
               and
               comes
               over
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               where
               after
               staying
               some
               six
               days
               he
               goes
               over
               away
               from
               thence
               to
               Wotion
               .
               But
               whilst
               he
               staid
               at
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               I
               was
               ordered
               to
               go
               into
               England
               to
               attend
               the
               Affairs
               here
               
               and
               for
               to
               do
               some
               other
               Services
               that
               they
               should
               imploy
               me
               about
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               accordingly
               I
               did
               come
               over
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               on
               the
               23.
               new
               stile
               ,
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               I
               got
               to
               Calice
               ,
               the
               24.
               
               I
               got
               to
               Dover
               ,
               on
               the
               25.
               
               I
               got
               to
               Sittenburn
               ,
               but
               between
               Dover
               and
               Sittenburn
               we
               had
               some
               Boxes
               seized
               ;
               for
               at
               Dover
               we
               met
               with
               Fenwick
               ,
               who
               is
               since
               executed
               ,
               who
               went
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Thompson
               ,
               and
               carried
               a
               Box
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               a
               little
               on
               this
               side
               Canterbury
               it
               was
               seized
               by
               the
               Custom-House
               Officers
               ,
               and
               several
               little
               Trinkets
               in
               it
               which
               were
               seized
               as
               French
               Goods
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               desire
               the
               Searcher
               to
               stand
               his
               friend
               ,
               and
               he
               would
               give
               him
               something
               for
               his
               pains
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               where
               he
               should
               write
               to
               him
               in
               London
               .
               There
               was
               a
               Superscription
               on
               the
               Box
               to
               one
               Blundel
               ,
               but
               he
               should
               write
               to
               him
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Thompson
               ,
               at
               the
               Fountain
               Tavern
               neer
               Charing-Cross
               .
               We
               arrived
               in
               Town
               the
               17.
               of
               June
               ,
               which
               is
               the
               27.
               new
               stile
               ;
               it
               was
               upon
               a
               Monday
               ,
               and
               there
               were
               Letters
               which
               did
               follow
               us
               ,
               wherein
               were
               proposals
               to
               be
               made
               to
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               for
               the
               Poisoning
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               that
               the
               Ten
               Thousand
               Pounds
               which
               the
               Spaniards
               had
               promised
               in
               January
               before
               ,
               and
               was
               accordingly
               paid
               in
               London
               at
               the
               time
               ,
               should
               be
               proposed
               to
               Wakeman
               ,
               to
               poison
               the
               King
               ;
               I
               found
               that
               Coleman
               did
               look
               upon
               it
               as
               too
               little
               ,
               and
               he
               thought
               Fifteen
               Thousand
               Pound
               should
               be
               given
               to
               him
               .
               I
               found
               that
               Langhorn
               thought
               it
               too
               much
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               ought
               to
               do
               so
               great
               a
               piece
               of
               Service
               for
               nothing
               ,
               and
               told
               us
               he
               was
               a
               narrow-spirited
               man
               if
               he
               would
               not
               ingage
               in
               such
               a
               thing
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               was
               Five
               Thousand
               Pounds
               ,
               as
               the
               Books
               told
               me
               ,
               paid
               ,
               but
               I
               did
               not
               then
               see
               it
               paid
               ,
               because
               I
               was
               then
               ill
               and
               not
               fit
               to
               stir
               abroad
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               are
               now
               past
               June
               (
               78.
               )
               In
               July
               Father
               Ashby
               comes
               to
               Town
               ,
               who
               did
               revive
               the
               Proposal
               to
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               ,
               but
               being
               sick
               of
               the
               Gout
               ,
               he
               hastened
               down
               to
               the
               Bath
               ,
               and
               when
               he
               came
               there
               ,
               as
               soon
               as
               he
               began
               to
               be
               well
               ,
               he
               was
               advised
               by
               the
               Fathers
               to
               see
               how
               the
               Catholicks
               stood
               affected
               in
               
                 Sommerset
                 shire
              
               ;
               for
               they
               had
               had
               an
               Account
               in
               March
               (
               78.
               )
               by
               Letters
               from
               
                 Berkshire
                 ,
                 Oxfordshire
              
               and
               Essex
               ,
               that
               the
               Catholicks
               stood
               well
               affected
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Andrews
              
               did
               secure
               that
               the
               people
               of
               Essex
               should
               stand
               to
               their
               points
               ;
               and
               so
               several
               men
               did
               secure
               that
               they
               would
               have
               them
               in
               readiness
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               In
               
                 August
                 (
                 I
              
               cannot
               remember
               every
               particular
               ,
               but
               refer
               my self
               to
               the
               Records
               of
               the
               House
               )
               about
               the
               26.
               of
               
                 August
                 ,
                 I
              
               find
               that
               Fenwick
               went
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               and
               there
               he
               was
               to
               attend
               the
               Provincial
               home
               ,
               and
               to
               give
               the
               Provincial
               an
               Account
               of
               the
               Proposal
               accepted
               by
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               ,
               but
               in
               July
               (
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               go
               back
               again
               )
               Strange
               comes
               to
               Town
               ,
               and
               falling
               in
               discourse
               about
               the
               Fire
               of
               London
               ,
               and
               the
               Rebuilding
               of
               it
               ,
               he
               very
               frankly
               told
               me
               how
               it
               was
               fired
               ,
               and
               how
               many
               of
               those
               concerned
               were
               seized
               ,
               and
               among
               the
               rest
               told
               me
               that
               the
               Duke
               of
               
               York's
               Guard
               ,
               as
               by
               his
               order
               ,
               did
               receive
               them
               ,
               and
               afterwards
               willing
               to
               discharge
               them
               ,
               which
               I
               forgot
               to
               mention
               before
               ,
               but
               upon
               review
               of
               my
               Papers
               ,
               I
               do
               find
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               told
               me
               his
               Guard
               did
               release
               the
               Prisoners
               that
               were
               taken
               as
               suspected
               about
               the
               
               Fire
               ,
               and
               that
               all
               the
               Order
               they
               had
               for
               it
               they
               pretended
               was
               from
               the
               Duke
               .
               But
               now
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               We
               return
               to
               August
               again
               .
               Upon
               the
               3.
               of
               August
               ,
               I
               find
               ,
               Ireland
               did
               pretend
               to
               go
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               and
               a
               Letter
               came
               from
               him
               as
               directed
               from
               thence
               ;
               but
               we
               find
               by
               his
               Tryal
               and
               other
               things
               since
               ,
               that
               he
               went
               into
               
                 Stafford
                 shire
              
               ;
               and
               about
               the
               12.
               of
               August
               (
               as
               I
               remember
               )
               he
               was
               here
               in
               Town
               .
               The
               latter
               part
               of
               July
               I
               communicated
               with
               Dr.
               Tongue
               ,
               and
               gave
               him
               some
               particular
               account
               of
               Affairs
               ,
               I
               desired
               him
               to
               communicate
               it
               to
               some
               that
               might
               make
               it
               known
               to
               the
               King
               ;
               the
               King
               had
               notice
               the
               13.
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               the
               14.
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               and
               by
               the
               3.
               of
               September
               I
               was
               betray'd
               ,
               and
               was
               exposed
               to
               the
               vengeance
               of
               these
               men
               whose
               Contrivances
               I
               had
               thus
               discovered
               .
               So
               my
               Intelligence
               did
               cease
               wholly
               the
               8.
               of
               September
               ;
               Then
               was
               I
               forced
               to
               keep
               private
               ,
               and
               upon
               my
               Examination
               ,
               what
               Information
               I
               gave
               before
               the
               Lords
               and
               Commons
               ,
               I
               refer
               my self
               to
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               at
               all
               concerned
               in
               his
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               say
               you
               were
               betray'd
               ,
               can
               you
               tell
               how
               or
               which
               way
               you
               were
               betray'd
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               will
               give
               this
               Honourable
               House
               what
               light
               I
               can
               in
               it
               ,
               but
               I
               desire
               then
               to
               be
               excused
               from
               my
               Oath
               ,
               for
               I
               can't
               speak
               it
               of
               my
               own
               knowledge
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Then
               the
               next
               Witness
               we
               desire
               may
               be
               called
               ,
               is
               Mr.
               
                 Bernard
                 Dennis
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               This
               Witness
               we
               call
               now
               is
               to
               confirm
               what
               Dr.
               Oats
               hath
               said
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               at
               Validolid
               ,
               and
               other
               places
               in
               Spain
               :
               he
               will
               be
               short
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Call
               you
               Oats
               again
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn
               ,
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               We
               call
               Dennis
               to
               confirm
               what
               Dr.
               Oats
               hath
               said
               .
               He
               hath
               given
               your
               Lordship
               an
               account
               that
               he
               was
               in
               Spain
               ,
               we
               now
               produce
               one
               that
               saw
               him
               when
               he
               was
               there
               ,
               and
               so
               confirms
               the
               Evidence
               given
               by
               him
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             Mr.
             Dennis
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               ,
               Do
               you
               give
               their
               Lordships
               an
               Account
               of
               your
               Discoursing
               with
               Dr.
               Oats
               in
               Spain
               ,
               or
               any
               where
               else
               abroad
               ,
               and
               where
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Stay
               a
               little
               ,
               Do
               you
               know
               Mr.
               Oats
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               How
               long
               have
               you
               known
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               I
               knew
               him
               in
               the
               year
               (
               77.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               At
               Validolid
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               see
               him
               there
               ,
               was
               he
               a
               Student
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               he
               known
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Oats
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               he
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               We
               desire
               he
               may
               tell
               his
               knowledge
               of
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               what
               conversation
               he
               had
               with
               him
               in
               Spain
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               in
               Spain
               in
               the
               City
               of
               Victoria
               ,
               and
               leaving
               the
               City
               of
               Victoria
               in
               the
               month
               of
               June
               ,
               I
               took
               my
               course
               to
               Madrid
               ,
               and
               passing
               through
               the
               City
               of
               Validolid
               ,
               going
               into
               the
               Convent
               of
               the
               Dominicans
               ,
               there
               came
               an
               Irishman
               ,
               a
               Priest
               of
               Ireland
               ,
               out
               of
               the
               City
               to
               seo
               me
               ,
               and
               there
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               there
               was
               a
               Student
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               by
               name
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               an
               Englishman
               ,
               and
               I
               understanding
               this
               ,
               went
               into
               the
               Colledge
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               to
               see
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               and
               there
               had
               conversation
               with
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               conversation
               I
               had
               with
               him
               there
               he
               told
               me
               that
               he
               was
               a
               Vicar
               in
               Kent
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               was
               Chaplain
               to
               a
               great
               Nobleman
               in
               England
               ,
               by
               name
               Howard
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               went
               out
               of
               England
               by
               the
               consent
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               in
               England
               ,
               being
               converted
               by
               them
               to
               the
               Roman
               Catholick
               Faith
               ,
               and
               that
               his
               going
               into
               Spain
               was
               to
               fit
               himself
               for
               the
               Society
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               and
               understanding
               my
               resolution
               was
               to
               go
               to
               Madrid
               ,
               he
               did
               desire
               me
               to
               carry
               a
               Letter
               to
               the
               Archbishop
               of
               Tune
               ,
               one
               
                 James
                 Lench
              
               an
               Irishman
               ,
               who
               lived
               at
               Madrid
               ;
               and
               further
               ,
               he
               lent
               me
               four
               pieces
               of
               Eight
               to
               defray
               my
               Journey
               to
               Madrid
               ,
               and
               desired
               me
               to
               pay
               the
               money
               to
               the
               Procurator
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               at
               Madrid
               ,
               and
               in
               carrying
               this
               Letter
               to
               the
               Archbishop
               ,
               when
               I
               came
               there
               I
               got
               a
               Dominican
               Fryer
               of
               Ireland
               ,
               by
               name
               
                 Humphry
                 Delphin
              
               ,
               to
               go
               with
               me
               and
               see
               the
               Archbishop
               at
               his
               lodging
               ,
               and
               going
               in
               ,
               I
               delivered
               him
               the
               Letter
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               the
               Dominican
               ,
               and
               he
               perused
               it
               in
               my
               presence
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               a
               Priest
               that
               waited
               upon
               him
               ,
               and
               finishing
               the
               Contents
               of
               the
               Letter
               ,
               as
               I
               suppose
               ,
               with
               a
               smiling
               Countenance
               he
               turned
               about
               ,
               and
               said
               ,
               Sirs
               ,
               the
               Contents
               of
               this
               Letter
               is
               ,
               that
               Mr.
               Oats
               is
               desirous
               to
               receive
               the
               Order
               of
               Priesthood
               from
               me
               ,
               or
               at
               my
               hands
               ,
               and
               if
               it
               be
               so
               ,
               it
               will
               be
               much
               in
               our
               way
               ,
               and
               this
               man
               will
               be
               a
               fit
               man
               for
               our
               purpose
               ;
               for
               said
               he
               further
               ,
               Dr
               ,
               
                 Oliver
                 Plunket
              
               ,
               Primate
               of
               Ireland
               ,
               is
               resolved
               this
               year
               ,
               or
               with
               the
               next
               Convenience
               ,
               to
               bring
               in
               a
               French
               Power
               into
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               thereby
               to
               support
               the
               Roman
               Catholicks
               in
               England
               and
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               if
               it
               please
               God
               ,
               I
               my self
               ,
               without
               any
               delay
               ,
               will
               go
               into
               Ireland
               to
               assist
               that
               pious
               Work.
               All
               this
               Discourse
               between
               us
               and
               the
               Archbishop
               ,
               and
               between
               Oats
               and
               me
               ,
               was
               in
               July
               (
               77.
               )
               And
               there
               I
               did
               speak
               and
               converse
               with
               Mr.
               Oats
               .
               All
               this
               I
               can
               testifie
               for
               truth
               on
               the
               behalf
               of
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               who
               was
               then
               a
               Student
               in
               the
               Colledge
               of
               Validolid
               ,
               and
               had
               no
               other
               name
               nor
               title
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               himself
               may
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               what
               Religion
               he
               is
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               a
               Dominican
               Fryer
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               I
               am
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               At
               this
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               He
               hath
               a
               Pardon
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               This
               hath
               been
               controverted
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               whether
               Mr.
               Oats
               ever
               was
               in
               Spain
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               make
               it
               out
               plain
               to
               the
               world
               ,
               for
               the
               Confirmation
               of
               his
               Evidence
               .
               Therefore
               we
               ask
               him
               again
               ,
               Do
               you
               know
               the
               person
               of
               Mr.
               Oats
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Is
               this
               person
               that
               gave
               Evidence
               last
               before
               you
               ,
               the
               same
               person
               you
               saw
               at
               Validolid
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               it
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sacheverel
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               ask
               of
               him
               ,
               why
               he
               had
               the
               four
               pieces
               of
               Eight
               of
               Mr.
               Oats
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Why
               had
               you
               that
               money
               of
               Oats
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               For
               to
               defray
               my
               Journey
               to
               Madrid
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               that
               all
               you
               had
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sacheverel
               .
            
             
               We
               pray
               he
               may
               be
               asked
               how
               he
               came
               to
               be
               so
               needy
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               altogether
               needy
               ,
               but
               it
               is
               very
               certain
               ,
               Religious
               persons
               ,
               especially
               of
               my
               Order
               ,
               cannot
               carry
               any
               money
               about
               them
               but
               what
               is
               requisite
               for
               their
               Journey
               ,
               and
               that
               which
               may
               be
               removed
               from
               place
               to
               place
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               did
               he
               see
               any
               more
               money
               that
               Dr.
               Oats
               had
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               see
               Dr.
               Oats
               in
               his
               Chamber
               in
               the
               Colledge
               at
               Validolid
               ,
               when
               he
               delivered
               me
               the
               four
               pieces
               of
               Eight
               ,
               to
               draw
               out
               a
               Drawer
               of
               a
               Table
               in
               his
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               out
               of
               the
               Drawer
               he
               pulled
               a
               Bag
               of
               money
               ,
               which
               was
               a
               very
               considerable
               Sum
               of
               money
               ▪
               and
               I
               am
               certain
               he
               did
               not
               want
               money
               there
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               we
               have
               done
               with
               him
               ,
               if
               my
               Lord
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               any
               Question
               he
               may
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               only
               one
               Question
               ,
               for
               I
               never
               saw
               the
               man
               in
               my
               life
               .
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               be
               asked
               ,
               whether
               he
               be
               still
               of
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               have
               not
               yet
               done
               with
               him
               ,
               the
               Question
               we
               would
               ask
               him
               ,
               is
               this
               ,
               whether
               he
               hath
               heard
               of
               any
               money
               that
               was
               gathered
               in
               Ireland
               for
               the
               support
               of
               this
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Question
               asked
               of
               you
               ,
               have
               you
               heard
               of
               any
               money
               gathered
               in
               Ireland
               for
               the
               support
               of
               this
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               both
               heard
               and
               seen
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               and
               where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               68.
               )
               I
               entred
               into
               the
               Order
               of
               the
               Dominicans
               in
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               same
               year
               there
               arrived
               at
               Dublin
               a
               Franciscan
               Fryer
               ,
               Brother
               to
               the
               late
               Earl
               of
               Carlingford
               ,
               and
               arriving
               there
               he
               made
               several
               
               Collectors
               for
               the
               levying
               a
               competent
               sum
               of
               money
               out
               of
               every
               Convent
               and
               Religious
               House
               .
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               the
               Collectors
               were
               by
               name
               
                 John
                 Reynolds
              
               alias
               Landy
               ,
               and
               
                 John
                 Berne
              
               ,
               and
               arriving
               at
               the
               County
               of
               Sligoe
               in
               the
               month
               of
               May.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               (
               68.
               )
               And
               when
               the
               Collectors
               came
               to
               the
               Convent
               of
               our
               Fryers
               in
               Sligoe
               ,
               all
               the
               Fryers
               gathered
               together
               into
               a
               room
               ,
               and
               these
               Collectors
               coming
               in
               did
               read
               their
               Commission
               given
               them
               from
               one
               
                 James
                 Taaffe
              
               ,
               as
               they
               said
               ,
               and
               I
               was
               there
               personally
               present
               ,
               though
               a
               Novice
               ,
               and
               upon
               reading
               their
               Commissions
               ,
               they
               said
               Forty
               Shillings
               was
               to
               be
               paid
               by
               the
               Prior
               ,
               and
               the
               Fryers
               of
               that
               Convent
               ,
               and
               the
               Provincial
               of
               the
               Order
               of
               the
               Dominicans
               questioned
               the
               Power
               of
               the
               said
               Reynolds
               and
               Berne
               ,
               and
               so
               did
               the
               Prior
               ;
               and
               I
               asked
               why
               the
               money
               was
               levyed
               ?
               they
               gave
               answer
               ,
               That
               that
               levy
               and
               several
               other
               levyes
               was
               to
               encourage
               the
               French
               King
               ,
               in
               whose
               Kingdom
               were
               several
               Bishops
               of
               Ireland
               ,
               Clergymen
               ,
               and
               others
               ,
               whose
               business
               it
               was
               to
               provoke
               the
               King
               to
               bring
               an
               Army
               to
               invade
               Ireland
               ,
               when
               ever
               time
               should
               serve
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               done
               with
               him
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Question
               is
               only
               whether
               he
               profess
               himself
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               or
               a
               Protestant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               a
               Roman
               Catholick
               still
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dennis
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Then
               we
               call
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               ,
               you
               have
               been
               among
               the
               Papists
               ,
               and
               you
               have
               had
               great
               confidence
               among
               them
               ;
               pray
               declare
               what
               you
               know
               of
               their
               Designs
               for
               the
               Destruction
               of
               the
               Protestant
               Religion
               ,
               or
               the
               means
               of
               doing
               it
               ,
               whether
               by
               the
               Murder
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               or
               what
               other
               means
               ,
               tell
               your
               whole
               knowledge
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               In
               the
               beginning
               of
               the
               year
               (
               78.
               )
               I
               have
               heard
               Mr.
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               Mr
               ,
               
                 Thomas
                 Jenison
              
               ,
               both
               Jesuits
               ,
               speak
               of
               a
               Design
               they
               had
               to
               gain
               a
               toleration
               of
               Conscience
               for
               their
               Party
               in
               England
               ;
               and
               the
               way
               then
               designed
               to
               get
               it
               was
               ,
               by
               procuring
               a
               great
               Sum
               of
               Money
               from
               their
               Party
               ,
               and
               by
               bribing
               the
               then
               Parliament
               .
               I
               have
               heard
               them
               likewise
               discourse
               of
               securing
               the
               Duke
               of
               
               York's
               Succession
               ,
               and
               that
               (
               they
               told
               me
               )
               was
               to
               be
               done
               ,
               by
               procuring
               of
               Commissions
               to
               be
               granted
               to
               those
               of
               their
               Party
               to
               be
               ready
               to
               rise
               upon
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King.
               I
               likewise
               have
               heard
               them
               discourse
               of
               the
               necessity
               and
               usefulness
               to
               their
               Party
               of
               the
               Alteration
               of
               the
               Government
               established
               ,
               and
               that
               their
               Religion
               could
               never
               flourish
               till
               that
               was
               done
               ,
               and
               this
               Kingdom
               altered
               
               according
               to
               the
               French
               Model
               .
               In
               the
               month
               of
               June
               (
               78
               )
               I
               was
               at
               Mr.
               
               Ireland's
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               there
               happening
               a
               discourse
               ,
               that
               the
               Roman
               Catholick
               Religion
               was
               like
               to
               come
               into
               England
               ,
               Mr.
               Ireland
               did
               then
               say
               ,
               there
               was
               but
               one
               that
               stood
               in
               the
               way
               ,
               and
               that
               it
               was
               an
               easie
               thing
               to
               Poyson
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               that
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               might
               easily
               and
               opportunely
               do
               it
               .
               I
               asked
               Mr.
               Ireland
               ,
               whether
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               was
               the
               Kings
               Physician
               ?
               His
               answer
               was
               ,
               No
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               the
               Queens
               ,
               and
               so
               might
               have
               an
               opportunity
               to
               do
               it
               .
               In
               the
               month
               of
               August
               the
               same
               year
               ,
               the
               day
               that
               I
               came
               from
               Windsor
               ,
               I
               went
               to
               Mr.
               
               Ireland's
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               I
               found
               he
               was
               newly
               come
               from
               Staffordshire
               ,
               and
               was
               drawing
               off
               his
               Boots
               on
               the
               frame
               of
               a
               Table
               :
               he
               asked
               me
               ,
               whence
               I
               was
               come
               ?
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               from
               Windsor
               :
               He
               inquired
               of
               me
               about
               the
               Diversions
               of
               the
               Court
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               understood
               His
               Majesty
               did
               take
               delight
               in
               Hawking
               and
               Fishing
               ,
               but
               chiefly
               in
               Fishing
               ;
               and
               that
               he
               went
               accompanied
               only
               with
               two
               or
               three
               ,
               early
               in
               the
               morning
               .
               Then
               Mr.
               Ireland
               replyed
               ,
               He
               were
               easily
               taken
               off
               ,
               or
               removed
               :
               to
               which
               I
               answered
               ,
               God
               forbid
               ,
               being
               surprized
               at
               that
               time
               ;
               O
               said
               he
               ,
               I
               say
               not
               that
               it
               is
               lawful
               .
               Then
               there
               happened
               some
               interruption
               to
               our
               Discourse
               about
               Staffordshire
               ;
               then
               we
               fell
               into
               a
               Discourse
               of
               their
               Religion
               that
               he
               said
               was
               suddenly
               to
               come
               into
               England
               ,
               and
               he
               asked
               me
               ,
               if
               I
               would
               be
               one
               of
               those
               that
               would
               go
               to
               Windsor
               to
               assist
               to
               take
               off
               the
               King
               :
               I
               told
               him
               no
               ;
               then
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               he
               would
               remit
               the
               20
               l.
               I
               owed
               him
               ,
               if
               I
               would
               go
               to
               Windsor
               to
               be
               one
               of
               those
               that
               were
               to
               take
               off
               the
               King.
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               would
               have
               no
               hand
               in
               any
               such
               matter
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               would
               not
               for
               twenty
               times
               20
               l.
               have
               any
               hand
               in
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ;
               said
               he
               ,
               Would
               you
               do
               nothing
               for
               the
               bringing
               in
               of
               our
               Religion
               ?
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               thought
               it
               would
               never
               come
               in
               by
               blood
               :
               I
               told
               him
               further
               ,
               God
               forgive
               me
               ,
               if
               the
               King
               were
               taken
               off
               ,
               so
               ,
               well
               and
               good
               ,
               but
               I
               would
               have
               nothing
               to
               do
               with
               it
               .
               He
               left
               not
               the
               Discourse
               there
               ,
               but
               asked
               me
               ,
               if
               I
               knew
               any
               Irishmen
               that
               were
               stout
               and
               couragious
               :
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               yes
               ,
               I
               did
               ,
               and
               named
               Captain
               Levallian
               ,
               Mr.
               Karney
               ,
               Mr.
               Broghall
               and
               Mr.
               Wilson
               ,
               all
               Gentlemen
               of
               my
               acquaintance
               about
               Grays-Inn
               .
               When
               I
               named
               these
               he
               asked
               me
               if
               I
               would
               go
               along
               with
               them
               to
               Windsor
               ,
               to
               assist
               them
               in
               taking
               off
               the
               King
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               I
               did
               not
               think
               any
               man
               of
               Estate
               would
               ingage
               in
               such
               a
               matter
               ,
               that
               I
               was
               Heir
               to
               an
               Estate
               ,
               my
               Brother
               being
               a
               Priest
               ,
               and
               that
               Captain
               Levallian
               was
               Heir
               to
               a
               very
               good
               Estate
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               did
               believe
               he
               would
               not
               do
               such
               a
               thing
               ,
               unless
               the
               Pique
               which
               he
               had
               to
               the
               King
               or
               Religion
               might
               move
               him
               to
               it
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               be
               approved
               of
               these
               persons
               ,
               and
               said
               ,
               he
               knew
               the
               first
               two
               of
               them
               ,
               Levallian
               and
               Karney
               ;
               and
               he
               set
               down
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               the
               other
               two
               Names
               in
               writing
               .
               He
               told
               me
               he
               was
               going
               to
               the
               Club
               ,
               to
               
                 Mr.
                 Coleman
              
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Levallian
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Karney
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               and
               then
               asked
               me
               for
               the
               Money
               ,
               the
               Twenty
               pounds
               that
               I
               owed
               him
               .
               He
               told
               me
               he
               wanted
               Fourscoure
               Pounds
               ,
               and
               he
               desired
               me
               that
               I
               would
               return
               it
               as
               soon
               as
               I
               came
               into
               the
               Countrey
               .
               Now
               my
               Lords
               ,
               
               the
               same
               day
               that
               I
               received
               this
               Twenty
               pound
               of
               Ireland
               ,
               I
               went
               with
               Mr.
               
                 Thomas
                 Jenison
              
               the
               Jesuit
               ,
               to
               Harcourts
               Chamber
               to
               give
               the
               Fathers
               thanks
               for
               the
               Loan
               of
               the
               Money
               ,
               and
               there
               Mr.
               Jenison
               falling
               into
               Discourse
               on
               that
               common
               Topick
               of
               their
               Religion
               coming
               into
               England
               ,
               he
               did
               then
               use
               that
               Expression
               which
               Dr.
               Oats
               hath
               in
               his
               Narrative
               .
               If
               C.
               R.
               
                 would
                 not
                 be
              
               R.
               C.
               
                 he
                 should
                 not
                 be
                 long
              
               C.
               R.
               And
               he
               did
               interpret
               it
               thus
               in
               Latine
               .
               
                 Si
                 Carolus
                 Rex
                 non
                 esset
                 Rex
                 Catholicus
                 non
                 foret
                 din
                 Carolus
                 Rex
                 .
              
               And
               he
               did
               add
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               upon
               the
               Discourse
               ,
               that
               if
               the
               King
               were
               Excommunicated
               or
               Deposed
               he
               was
               not
               longer
               King
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               no
               sin
               ,
               or
               no
               great
               sin
               to
               take
               him
               off
               ,
               and
               if
               it
               were
               discovered
               who
               did
               it
               ,
               two
               or
               three
               might
               perhaps
               suffer
               ,
               but
               denying
               the
               Fact
               the
               matter
               soon
               would
               be
               blown
               over
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               about
               two
               Months
               after
               the
               Mustering
               the
               Forces
               upon
               Hounslowe-Heath
               ,
               Mr.
               
                 Thomas
                 Jenison
              
               did
               tell
               me
               he
               had
               a
               matter
               of
               great
               Consequence
               to
               impart
               to
               me
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Design
               on
               foot
               so
               laid
               as
               that
               it
               could
               not
               well
               be
               discovered
               ,
               and
               that
               the
               greatest
               Papists
               ,
               the
               greatest
               Catholicks
               in
               England
               were
               in
               the
               Design
               ,
               That
               the
               Queen
               and
               the
               Duke
               were
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               that
               several
               Lords
               ,
               by
               name
               my
               Lord
               Bellasis
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Arundel
               of
               Wardour
               and
               others
               ,
               I
               believe
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               named
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               be
               positive
               in
               that
               .
               At
               that
               time
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               wish
               I
               had
               had
               a
               Commission
               in
               the
               new
               raised
               Levies
               that
               were
               Mustered
               on
               Hounslowe-Heath
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               he
               would
               procure
               me
               a
               Commission
               from
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               ,
               and
               that
               there
               was
               a
               new
               Army
               to
               be
               raised
               to
               bring
               in
               the
               Catholick
               Religion
               ,
               but
               he
               did
               say
               he
               would
               tell
               me
               more
               particulars
               after
               my
               receiving
               the
               Sacrament
               of
               Secresie
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               understand
               by
               him
               that
               that
               Commission
               was
               not
               to
               be
               sent
               till
               the
               taking
               off
               the
               King
               was
               effected
               ;
               but
               being
               I
               was
               surp●ised
               at
               it
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               tell
               me
               the
               whole
               matter
               ,
               but
               he
               desired
               me
               to
               come
               and
               receive
               the
               Sacrament
               at
               Sir
               
                 Philip
                 Tyrwhytts
              
               in
               Blomesbury
               ,
               and
               then
               he
               would
               acquaint
               me
               with
               the
               whole
               Affair
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               being
               in
               Berkshire
               about
               the
               Month
               of
               December
               (
               78
               )
               at
               Madam
               Halls
               in
               Shinefield
               Parish
               ,
               one
               Mr.
               Cuffil
               a
               Jesuit
               came
               into
               our
               Company
               .
               It
               was
               about
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Coleman
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Cuffil
               did
               then
               say
               ,
               That
               he
               thought
               Mr.
               Coleman
               was
               infatuated
               upon
               the
               Discovery
               of
               the
               Pl●t
               ,
               to
               give
               notice
               to
               Mr.
               Harcourt
               ,
               Mr.
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               Jesuits
               to
               burn
               or
               secure
               their
               Papers
               ,
               and
               yet
               not
               to
               secure
               his
               own
               .
               My
               Sister
               Hall
               was
               present
               at
               this
               Discourse
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Cuffil
               did
               then
               further
               say
               ,
               that
               Bellarmine
               did
               draw
               a
               Sentence
               out
               of
               the
               Scripture
               ,
               to
               favour
               the
               Popes
               Authority
               of
               Excommunicating
               ,
               Depriving
               ,
               and
               Deposing
               Temporal
               Princes
               ,
               and
               the
               saying
               was
               this
               ,
               
                 Quòd
                 Papa
                 habeat
                 eandem
                 Potestatem
                 super
                 Reges
                 ,
                 quam
                 Jehoiada
                 habuit
                 super
                 Athaliam
                 .
              
               And
               that
               there
               were
               other
               corroborating
               Testimonies
               among
               the
               Fathers
               for
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               ever
               he
               heard
               of
               Mr.
               Oats
               being
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               or
               being
               thought
               Trust-worthy
               among
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               did
               you
               hear
               it
               ,
               and
               of
               whom
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Of
               my
               Brother
               
                 Thomas
                 Jenison
              
               the
               Jesuit
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               did
               he
               tell
               you
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               About
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               July
               (
               78.
               )
               when
               there
               was
               a
               Discourse
               of
               a
               Design
               ,
               and
               that
               the
               greatest
               Papists
               were
               in
               it
               ;
               he
               said
               Mr.
               Oats
               a
               Parson
               newly
               come
               over
               to
               them
               was
               in
               that
               Design
               ,
               I
               answered
               ,
               I
               did
               wonder
               that
               he
               would
               trust
               a
               reconciled
               Enemy
               ;
               he
               answered
               ,
               That
               being
               once
               reconciled
               ,
               they
               were
               more
               Zealous
               and
               Trusty
               :
               I
               submitted
               to
               his
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               instanced
               in
               Dr.
               Godwyn
               and
               Dr.
               Bayley
               that
               were
               Protestants
               ▪
               and
               afterwards
               came
               over
               to
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               We
               have
               done
               with
               him
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               No
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Win.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               only
               observe
               the
               time
               when
               he
               says
               ,
               his
               Brother
               told
               him
               of
               the
               Design
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               about
               the
               time
               of
               the
               Mustering
               of
               the
               Forces
               upon
               Hounslowe-Heath
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               was
               then
               told
               Mr.
               Oats
               was
               in
               the
               Plot
               ;
               I
               only
               observe
               it
               now
               for
               the
               end
               of
               the
               Case
               in
               point
               of
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               says
               it
               was
               in
               July
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               two
               Months
               after
               the
               Mustering
               of
               the
               Forces
               ,
               about
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               July
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Before
               the
               Discovery
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               know
               Oats
               at
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
               I
               was
               not
               acquainted
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               not
               see
               him
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               saw
               him
               at
               Irelands
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               The
               latter
               end
               of
               April
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               May.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               say
               you
               did
               not
               know
               him
               in
               July
               ;
               How
               then
               can
               you
               say
               you
               saw
               him
               before
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               know
               him
               ,
               I
               only
               saw
               him
               come
               into
               Irelands
               Chamber
               and
               whisper
               for
               sometime
               ,
               two
               or
               three
               minutes
               ,
               and
               then
               they
               told
               me
               ,
               that
               that
               was
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               a
               Parson
               newly
               come
               over
               to
               them
               ,
               a
               brisk
               jolly
               man
               ,
               and
               worthy
               my
               acquaintance
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               this
               the
               same
               man
               you
               saw
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can't
               remember
               his
               face
               ,
               for
               he
               was
               gone
               out
               when
               I
               was
               told
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               ,
               you
               know
               Mr.
               Oats
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               him
               to
               be
               the
               same
               man
               that
               you
               saw
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               I
               can't
               tell
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               Mr.
               Oats
               only
               came
               in
               for
               three
               or
               four
               minutes
               and
               his
               back
               was
               towards
               him
               ,
               and
               his
               Brother
               told
               him
               when
               he
               was
               gone
               ,
               who
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               I
               only
               knew
               his
               Name
               from
               my
               Brother
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               And
               I
               presume
               your
               Lordships
               will
               observe
               this
               was
               at
               the
               very
               time
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               Consult
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               this
               Gentleman
               may
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               who
               his
               Brother
               is
               ,
               and
               what
               Profession
               he
               is
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               My
               Brother
               was
               a
               Jesuit
               brought
               up
               at
               St.
               Omers
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Your
               Brother
               is
               dead
               ,
               and
               died
               in
               Newgate
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               did
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Pray
               recollect
               your self
               again
               ,
               When
               was
               it
               that
               you
               saw
               the
               man
               they
               called
               Oats
               at
               the
               Jesuits
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               It
               was
               in
               the
               year
               (
               78
               )
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               April
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               May.
               And
               I
               will
               tell
               you
               why
               I
               apprehend
               it
               to
               be
               that
               time
               ;
               My
               Brother
               being
               a
               Priest
               lived
               with
               Sir
               
                 Phillip
                 Tyrwhitt
              
               in
               Lincolnshire
               ,
               and
               in
               that
               year
               in
               Lent
               he
               came
               to
               Town
               with
               my
               Lady
               and
               that
               Family
               ,
               and
               he
               and
               I
               used
               to
               Dine
               together
               at
               the
               Fish
               Ordinary
               at
               Pedleys
               .
               And
               about
               three
               weeks
               or
               a
               month
               after
               that
               time
               when
               he
               came
               to
               Town
               I
               was
               at
               Mr.
               Irelands
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               there
               was
               a
               Gentleman
               whom
               they
               told
               me
               was
               Oats
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew
               ▪
               
            
             
               This
               you
               say
               was
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               April
               ,
               or
               beginning
               of
               May
               (
               78
               )
               for
               the
               time
               is
               material
               ,
               upon
               your
               Oath
               you
               say
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               say
               it
               was
               at
               
               Ireland's
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Win.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               will
               you
               give
               us
               leave
               to
               ask
               him
               one
               short
               Question
               ,
               because
               some
               of
               the
               Gentlemen
               doubt
               of
               it
               ,
               we
               would
               ask
               it
               again
               ,
               what
               his
               Brother
               was
               ,
               whether
               he
               was
               a
               Jesuit
               or
               no
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Jenison
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               heard
               him
               own
               it
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Whom
               do
               you
               call
               next
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               If
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               we
               shall
               in
               the
               next
               place
               produce
               our
               Evidences
               that
               are
               matters
               of
               Record
               and
               we
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               advice
               and
               direction
               how
               we
               are
               to
               minister
               the
               same
               ,
               whether
               your
               Lordships
               will
               have
               them
               all
               read
               ,
               〈…〉
               of
               them
               ,
               and
               let
               them
               be
               left
               with
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               〈…〉
               
            
             
               〈…〉
               Records
               are
               they
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               〈◊〉
               
            
             
               〈◊〉
               are
               the
               Records
               of
               the
               Attainder
               of
               
                 Coleman
                 ,
                 Ireland
              
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               Conspirators
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Fact
               is
               so
               notorious
               that
               they
               were
               Attainted
               and
               Executed
               ,
               That
               the
               reading
               of
               a
               word
               will
               serve
               the
               turn
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Then
               we
               desire
               they
               may
               be
               produced
               here
               ,
               and
               the
               Copies
               proved
               upon
               Oath
               ,
               and
               then
               we
               shall
               leave
               them
               upon
               your
               Lordships
               Table
               .
               And
               my
               Lords
               we
               desire
               likewise
               at
               the
               same
               time
               to
               save
               another
               trouble
               ,
               there
               may
               be
               delivered
               in
               the
               Convictions
               of
               
                 Reading
                 ,
                 Lane
                 ,
                 Knox
              
               ,
               and
               others
               .
            
          
           
           
             Then
             Mr.
             Clare
             was
             Sworn
             ,
             and
             delivered
             in
             the
             Copies
             of
             the
             Records
             ,
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Record
               is
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Clare
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               the
               Record
               of
               the
               Attainder
               of
               Coleman
               for
               high
               Treason
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               examine
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Clare
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               examine
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               it
               a
               true
               Copy
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Clare
               .
            
             
               To
               the
               best
               of
               my
               understanding
               it
               is
               .
               Here
               is
               likewise
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Record
               of
               the
               Conviction
               of
               
                 Ireland
                 ,
                 Pickering
              
               ,
               and
               Grove
               for
               high
               Treason
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               there
               Judgment
               of
               Attainder
               entred
               upon
               Record
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Clare
               .
            
             
               Yes
               
                 my
                 Lords
              
               ,
               there
               is
               Judgement
               entred
               .
               Here
               is
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Indictment
               ,
               Conviction
               ,
               and
               Attainder
               of
               
                 Whitebread
                 ,
                 Fenwick
                 ,
                 Harcourt
                 ,
                 Gavan
                 ,
              
               and
               Turner
               for
               high
               Treason
               .
               Here
               is
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Record
               of
               Attainder
               of
               
                 Richard
                 Langhorn
              
               for
               high
               Treason
               .
               Here
               is
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Attainder
               of
               
                 Green
                 ,
                 Berry
              
               ,
               and
               Hill
               for
               the
               Murder
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmond-bury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               Here
               is
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Conviction
               of
               Mr.
               
                 Nathaniel
                 Reading
              
               ,
               for
               endeavouring
               to
               Suborn
               Mr.
               Bedlow
               ,
               to
               retract
               his
               Evidence
               against
               some
               of
               the
               Lords
               in
               the
               Tower
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 Henry
                 Tichbourn
              
               ,
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               the
               Judgment
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Clare
               .
            
             
               The
               Judgment
               is
               entred
               upon
               it
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               to
               pay
               1000
               l.
               Fine
               ,
               and
               to
               be
               put
               in
               ,
               and
               upon
               the
               Pillory
               in
               the
               
                 Palace
                 ▪
                 Yard
                 Westminster
              
               for
               an
               hour
               ,
               with
               a
               Paper
               upon
               his
               head
               written
               in
               great
               Letters
               ,
               
                 For
                 endeavouring
                 Subornation
                 of
                 Perjury
              
               .
               Here
               is
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Record
               of
               the
               Conviction
               of
               Tasbrough
               and
               Price
               ,
               for
               endeavouring
               to
               Suborn
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               Judgment
               entred
               upon
               it
               .
               And
               here
               is
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Record
               of
               Conviction
               of
               Knox
               and
               Lane
               ,
               for
               Conspiring
               to
               asperse
               Dr.
               Oats
               and
               Mr.
               Bedlow
               .
            
             
               Here
               is
               the
               Record
               of
               the
               Conviction
               of
               
                 John
                 Giles
              
               for
               barbarously
               attempting
               to
               Assassinate
               
                 John
                 Arnold
              
               
                 Esq
              
               one
               of
               His
               Majesties
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ;
               and
               the
               Judgment
               entred
               thereupon
               is
               ,
               To
               stand
               three
               times
               on
               the
               Pillory
               ,
               with
               a
               Paper
               on
               his
               Hat
               declaring
               his
               Offence
               ,
               to
               pay
               ●00
               l.
               to
               the
               King
               ,
               to
               lie
               in
               Execution
               till
               the
               same
               be
               paid
               ,
               and
               find
               Sureties
               for
               his
               
                 Good
                 Behaviour
              
               during
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Deliver
               them
               all
               in
               .
               And
               if
               my
               Lords
               have
               occasion
               to
               doubt
               of
               any
               thing
               ,
               being
               left
               in
               the
               Court
               they
               will
               be
               there
               ready
               ●o
               be
               used
               .
               (
               All
               which
               were
               then
               delivered
               in
               .
               )
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               humbly
               desire
               that
               the
               Record
               of
               Coleman
               may
               be
               read
               ,
               because
               there
               is
               more
               of
               special
               matter
               in
               it
               than
               any
               of
               the
               rest
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               may
               dispose
               of
               the
               others
               as
               you
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Read
               the
               Record
               of
               Coleman
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Clerk
             read
             (
             in
             Latin
             )
             the
             Record
             of
             the
             Attainder
             of
             
               Edward
               Coleman
            
             ,
             formerly
             Executed
             for
             high
             Treason
             ,
             by
             him
             Committed
             in
             this
             horrid
             Popish
             Plot
             ,
             which
             in
             English
             is
             as
             followeth
             ,
             viz.
             
             
               
               
                 
                   
                     
                       Of
                       the
                       Term
                       of
                       Saint
                       MICHAEL
                       in
                       the
                       Thirtieth
                       Year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       King
                       CHARLES
                       the
                       Second
                       ,
                       &c.
                       
                    
                     
                       
                         Middlesex
                         .
                      
                    
                     
                       AT
                       another
                       time
                       ,
                       (
                       to
                       wit
                       )
                       on
                       VVednesday
                       next
                       after
                       eight
                       days
                       of
                       St.
                       Martin
                       ,
                       this
                       same
                       Term
                       ,
                       before
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       at
                       VVestminster
                       ,
                       by
                       the
                       Oath
                       of
                       Twelve
                       Jurors
                       ,
                       honest
                       and
                       lawful
                       Men
                       of
                       the
                       County
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       Sworn
                       and
                       Charged
                       to
                       Enquire
                       for
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       and
                       the
                       Body
                       of
                       the
                       County
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       it
                       stands
                       presented
                       ,
                       That
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       late
                       of
                       the
                       Parish
                       of
                       Saint
                       
                         Margaret
                         VVestminster
                      
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       Gentleman
                       ,
                       as
                       a
                       false
                       Traitor
                       against
                       the
                       most
                       Illustrious
                       ,
                       most
                       Serene
                       and
                       most
                       Excellent
                       Prince
                       ,
                       our
                       Lord
                       CHARLES
                       the
                       Second
                       ,
                       by
                       the
                       Grace
                       of
                       God
                       of
                       
                         England
                         ,
                         Scotland
                         ,
                         France
                      
                       and
                       Ireland
                       King
                       ,
                       Defender
                       of
                       the
                       Faith
                       ,
                       &c.
                       and
                       his
                       Natural
                       Lord
                       ,
                       not
                       having
                       the
                       Fear
                       of
                       God
                       in
                       his
                       Heart
                       ,
                       nor
                       weighing
                       the
                       Duty
                       of
                       his
                       Allegiance
                       ,
                       but
                       by
                       the
                       instigation
                       of
                       the
                       Devil
                       moved
                       and
                       seduced
                       ,
                       the
                       cordial
                       Love
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       true
                       ,
                       due
                       and
                       Natural
                       Obedience
                       which
                       true
                       and
                       faithful
                       Subjects
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       towards
                       Him
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ought
                       and
                       of
                       right
                       are
                       bound
                       to
                       bear
                       ,
                       utterly
                       withdrawing
                       ,
                       and
                       devising
                       ,
                       and
                       with
                       his
                       whole
                       Strength
                       intending
                       the
                       Peace
                       and
                       common
                       Tranquility
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       of
                       England
                       to
                       disturb
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       true
                       Worship
                       of
                       God
                       within
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       of
                       England
                       practised
                       ,
                       and
                       by
                       Law
                       established
                       ,
                       to
                       overthrow
                       ,
                       and
                       Sedition
                       and
                       Rebellion
                       within
                       this
                       Realm
                       of
                       England
                       to
                       move
                       ,
                       stir
                       up
                       ,
                       and
                       procure
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       cordial
                       Love
                       ,
                       and
                       true
                       and
                       due
                       Obedience
                       ,
                       which
                       true
                       and
                       faithful
                       Subjects
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       towards
                       Him
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       should
                       bear
                       ,
                       and
                       of
                       right
                       are
                       bound
                       to
                       bear
                       ,
                       utterly
                       to
                       withdraw
                       ,
                       blot
                       out
                       ,
                       and
                       extinguish
                       ,
                       and
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       to
                       death
                       and
                       final
                       destruction
                       to
                       bring
                       and
                       put
                       ,
                       the
                       29
                       th
                       .
                       day
                       of
                       September
                       in
                       the
                       27
                       th
                       .
                       year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       Lord
                       CHARLES
                       the
                       Second
                       ,
                       by
                       the
                       Grace
                       of
                       God
                       ,
                       of
                       
                         England
                         ,
                         Scotland
                         ,
                         France
                      
                       and
                       Ireland
                       King
                       ,
                       Defender
                       of
                       the
                       Faith
                       ,
                       &c.
                       at
                       the
                       Parish
                       of
                       St.
                       
                         Margaret
                         VVestminster
                      
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       maliciously
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       proposed
                       ,
                       compassed
                       ,
                       imagined
                       and
                       intended
                       Sedition
                       and
                       Rebellion
                       within
                       this
                       Realm
                       of
                       England
                       to
                       move
                       ,
                       raise
                       up
                       and
                       procure
                       ,
                       and
                       a
                       miserable
                       Slaughter
                       among
                       the
                       Subjects
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       to
                       procure
                       and
                       cause
                       ;
                       and
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       from
                       his
                       Kingly
                       State
                       ,
                       Title
                       ,
                       Power
                       and
                       Government
                       of
                       His
                       Realm
                       of
                       England
                       utterly
                       to
                       deprive
                       ,
                       depose
                       ,
                       deject
                       and
                       disinherit
                       ,
                       and
                       Him
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       to
                       Death
                       and
                       final
                       Destruction
                       to
                       bring
                       and
                       put
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Government
                       of
                       the
                       same
                       Realm
                       and
                       the
                       sincere
                       Religion
                       of
                       God
                       in
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       ,
                       rightly
                       and
                       by
                       the
                       Laws
                       of
                       this
                       Realm
                       established
                       for
                       his
                       Will
                       and
                       Pleasure
                       to
                       change
                       and
                       alter
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       State
                       of
                       this
                       whole
                       Kingdom
                       in
                       its
                       universal
                       parts
                       well
                       instituted
                       and
                       ordained
                       ,
                       wholly
                       to
                       subvert
                       
                       and
                       destroy
                       ;
                       and
                       War
                       against
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       within
                       this
                       Realm
                       of
                       England
                       to
                       levy
                       :
                       and
                       to
                       accomplish
                       and
                       fulfil
                       these
                       his
                       most
                       wicked
                       Treasons
                       and
                       traiterous
                       Imaginations
                       and
                       Purposes
                       aforesaid
                       ;
                       The
                       same
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       afterwards
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       the
                       said
                       Twenty
                       ninth
                       day
                       of
                       September
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       abovesaid
                       Twenty
                       Seventh
                       year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       at
                       the
                       Parish
                       of
                       Saint
                       
                         Margaret
                         VVestminster
                      
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       devised
                       ,
                       composed
                       and
                       writ
                       two
                       Letters
                       to
                       be
                       sent
                       to
                       one
                       Monsieur
                       
                         Le
                         Chese
                      
                       then
                       Servant
                       and
                       Confessor
                       of
                       Lewis
                       the
                       French
                       King
                       ,
                       to
                       desire
                       ,
                       procure
                       and
                       obtain
                       to
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       and
                       other
                       false
                       Traitors
                       against
                       our
                       said
                       Soveragin
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       from
                       the
                       said
                       French
                       King
                       ,
                       his
                       Aid
                       ,
                       Assistance
                       and
                       Adherence
                       ,
                       to
                       alter
                       the
                       true
                       Religion
                       in
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       then
                       and
                       still
                       Established
                       ,
                       to
                       the
                       Superstition
                       of
                       the
                       Church
                       of
                       Rome
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       Subvert
                       the
                       Government
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       of
                       England
                       :
                       And
                       afterwards
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       the
                       said
                       Twenty
                       Ninth
                       Day
                       of
                       September
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       abovesaid
                       Twenty
                       Seventh
                       Year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       now
                       King
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       &c.
                       at
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       Saint
                       
                         Margaret
                         VVestminster
                      
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       and
                       traiterously
                       devised
                       ,
                       composed
                       and
                       writ
                       two
                       other
                       Letters
                       to
                       be
                       sent
                       to
                       one
                       Monsieur
                       
                         Le
                         Chese
                      
                       then
                       Servant
                       and
                       Confessor
                       of
                       the
                       said
                       French
                       King
                       ,
                       to
                       the
                       intent
                       ,
                       that
                       he
                       the
                       said
                       Monsieur
                       
                         Le
                         Chese
                      
                       should
                       intreat
                       ,
                       procure
                       ,
                       and
                       obtain
                       to
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       and
                       other
                       false
                       Traitors
                       ,
                       against
                       our
                       said
                       Soveraign
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       from
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       French
                       King
                       ,
                       his
                       Aid
                       ,
                       Assistance
                       and
                       Adherence
                       to
                       alter
                       the
                       true
                       Religion
                       in
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       of
                       England
                       then
                       and
                       still
                       Established
                       ,
                       to
                       the
                       Superstition
                       of
                       the
                       Church
                       of
                       Rome
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       Subvert
                       the
                       Government
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       of
                       England
                       ;
                       And
                       that
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coloman
                      
                       ,
                       in
                       further
                       prosecution
                       of
                       his
                       Treasons
                       and
                       Traiterous
                       Imaginations
                       and
                       Purposes
                       aforesaid
                       afterwards
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       the
                       same
                       Twenty
                       Ninth
                       Day
                       of
                       September
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       abovesaid
                       Twenty
                       Seventh
                       Year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       now
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       several
                       Letters
                       from
                       the
                       said
                       Parish
                       of
                       Saint
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       ,
                       and
                       traiterously
                       did
                       send
                       into
                       Parts
                       beyond
                       the
                       Seas
                       ,
                       there
                       to
                       be
                       delivered
                       to
                       the
                       said
                       Monsieur
                       
                         Le
                         Chese
                      
                       ;
                       And
                       that
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       afterwards
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       the
                       First
                       Day
                       of
                       December
                       in
                       the
                       Twenty
                       Seventh
                       Year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       Soveraign
                       Lord
                       CHARLES
                       the
                       Second
                       now
                       King
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       &c.
                       at
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       Saint
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       one
                       Letter
                       from
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Mounsie●r
                       
                         L●
                         Ches●
                      
                       ,
                       (
                       in
                       answer
                       to
                       one
                       of
                       the
                       said
                       Letters
                       (
                       so
                       by
                       him
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       writ
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       the
                       said
                       Monsieur
                       
                         L●
                         Che●e
                      
                       to
                       be
                       sent
                       )
                       first
                       mentioned
                       )
                       falsly
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       ,
                       and
                       traiterously
                       received
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       Letter
                       ,
                       so
                       in
                       answer
                       received
                       ,
                       the
                       Day
                       and
                       Year
                       last
                       abovesaid
                       ,
                       at
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       Saint
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       did
                       inspect
                       and
                       read
                       over
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       the
                       Letter
                       aforesaid
                       so
                       by
                       him
                       in
                       answer
                       received
                       in
                       his
                       custody
                       and
                       possession
                       the
                       day
                       and
                       year
                       last
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       at
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       St.
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       detained
                       ,
                       concealed
                       and
                       kept
                       ;
                       By
                       which
                       said
                       Letter
                       the
                       said
                       Monsieur
                       
                         Le
                         Chese
                      
                       the
                       day
                       and
                       year
                       last
                       abovesaid
                       ,
                       at
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       St.
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       signified
                       and
                       promised
                       to
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       to
                       obtain
                       for
                       him
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       and
                       other
                       false
                       Traitors
                       
                       against
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       from
                       the
                       said
                       French
                       King
                       ,
                       his
                       Aid
                       ,
                       Assistance
                       and
                       Adherence
                       ;
                       And
                       that
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       afterwards
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       the
                       Tenth
                       day
                       of
                       December
                       in
                       the
                       abovesaid
                       Twenty
                       seventh
                       Year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Soveraign
                       Lord
                       Charles
                       the
                       Second
                       now
                       King
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       &c.
                       at
                       the
                       Parish
                       of
                       St.
                       
                         Margaret
                         VVestminster
                      
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       ,
                       maliciously
                       ,
                       subtilly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       did
                       relate
                       and
                       declare
                       his
                       traiterous
                       Designs
                       and
                       Purposes
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       to
                       one
                       Monsieur
                       Ro●vigni
                       ,
                       (
                       then
                       Envoy
                       Extraordinary
                       from
                       the
                       French
                       King
                       ,
                       to
                       our
                       said
                       most
                       Serene
                       King
                       ,
                       at
                       the
                       Parish
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       residing
                       )
                       to
                       move
                       and
                       excite
                       him
                       the
                       said
                       Envoy
                       Extraordinary
                       with
                       him
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       in
                       his
                       Treasons
                       aforesaid
                       to
                       partake
                       :
                       And
                       the
                       sooner
                       to
                       fulfil
                       and
                       compleat
                       those
                       his
                       wicked
                       Treasons
                       and
                       traiterous
                       imaginations
                       and
                       purposes
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       he
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       ,
                       afterward
                       ▪
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       December
                       19.
                       in
                       the
                       abovesaid
                       27
                       th
                       .
                       year
                       of
                       the
                       Reign
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       Charles
                       the
                       Second
                       now
                       King
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       &c.
                       at
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       S.
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       advisedly
                       ,
                       maliciously
                       subtilly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       did
                       devise
                       ,
                       compose
                       ,
                       and
                       write
                       three
                       other
                       Letters
                       to
                       be
                       sent
                       to
                       one
                       Sir
                       
                         William
                         Throgmorton
                      
                       Knt.
                       then
                       a
                       Subject
                       of
                       our
                       now
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       of
                       this
                       Kingdom
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       and
                       residing
                       in
                       France
                       ,
                       in
                       Parts
                       beyond
                       the
                       Seas
                       ,
                       to
                       sollicite
                       him
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Monsieur
                       
                         Le
                         Chese
                      
                       to
                       procure
                       &
                       obtain
                       of
                       the
                       said
                       French
                       King
                       his
                       Aid
                       ,
                       Assistance
                       and
                       Adherence
                       aforesaid
                       .
                       And
                       those
                       Letters
                       last
                       mentioned
                       ,
                       afterwards
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       the
                       day
                       and
                       year
                       last
                       abovesaid
                       from
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Parish
                       of
                       St.
                       
                         Margaret
                         Westminster
                      
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       County
                       of
                       Middlesex
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       to
                       the
                       same
                       Sir
                       
                         William
                         Throgmorton
                      
                       in
                       France
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       falsly
                       and
                       traiterously
                       did
                       send
                       ,
                       and
                       cause
                       to
                       be
                       delivered
                       ,
                       against
                       the
                       duty
                       of
                       his
                       Allegiance
                       ,
                       and
                       against
                       the
                       Peace
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       now
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       his
                       Crown
                       and
                       Dignity
                       ,
                       and
                       against
                       the
                       Form
                       of
                       the
                       Statute
                       in
                       such
                       case
                       made
                       and
                       provided
                       .
                       Wherefore
                       〈◊〉
                       was
                       commanded
                       the
                       Sheriff
                       of
                       the
                       County
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       that
                       he
                       should
                       not
                       omit
                       &c
                       but
                       that
                       he
                       should
                       take
                       him
                       ,
                       if
                       &c.
                       to
                       answer
                       &c
                       And
                       now
                       ,
                       to
                       wit
                       ,
                       on
                       Saturday
                       next
                       after
                       eight
                       days
                       of
                       St.
                       Martin
                       this
                       same
                       Term
                       ,
                       before
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       at
                       Westminster
                       ,
                       came
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edw.
                         Coleman
                      
                       under
                       the
                       Custody
                       of
                       
                         Will.
                         Richardson
                      
                       Gent
                       ▪
                       Keeper
                       of
                       the
                       Gaol
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       of
                       Newgate
                       ,
                       by
                       vertue
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       's
                       Writ
                       of
                       
                         Habeas
                         Corpus
                         ad
                         Subjiciend
                      
                       &c.
                       (
                       into
                       whose
                       custody
                       before
                       then
                       for
                       the
                       cause
                       aforesaid
                       he
                       was
                       committed
                       )
                       to
                       the
                       Bar
                       here
                       brought
                       in
                       his
                       proper
                       person
                       ,
                       who
                       is
                       committed
                       to
                       the
                       Marshal
                       ,
                       &c.
                       and
                       presently
                       of
                       the
                       Premisses
                       to
                       him
                       above
                       imposed
                       ,
                       being
                       asked
                       ,
                       how
                       he
                       will
                       thereof
                       be
                       acquitted
                       ?
                       saith
                       ,
                       that
                       he
                       is
                       in
                       no
                       wise
                       thereof
                       guilty
                       ,
                       and
                       thereof
                       for
                       good
                       and
                       evil
                       doth
                       put
                       himself
                       upon
                       the
                       Country
                       .
                       Therefore
                       let
                       a
                       Jury
                       thereupon
                       come
                       before
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       at
                       Westminster
                       on
                       Wednesday
                       next
                       after
                       fifteen
                       days
                       of
                       St.
                       Martin
                       ;
                       and
                       who
                       &c.
                       to
                       recognize
                       &c.
                       because
                       &c.
                       the
                       same
                       day
                       is
                       given
                       to
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       &c.
                       under
                       the
                       custody
                       of
                       the
                       said
                       Keeper
                       of
                       the
                       Gaol
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       of
                       Newgate
                       aforesaid
                       in
                       the
                       mean
                       time
                       committed
                       to
                       be
                       safely
                       kept
                       until
                       &c.
                       
                       At
                       which
                       Wednesday
                       next
                       after
                       fifteen
                       days
                       of
                       St
                       Martin
                       ,
                       before
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       at
                       Westminster
                       ,
                       came
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       under
                       custody
                       of
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       keeper
                       of
                       the
                       Kings
                       Gaol
                       of
                       Newgate
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       by
                       vertue
                       of
                       a
                       Writ
                       of
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       of
                       
                         Habeas
                         Corpus
                         ad
                         Subjiciend
                         ▪
                      
                       &c.
                       to
                       the
                       Bar
                       here
                       brought
                       in
                       his
                       proper
                       person
                       who
                       is
                       committed
                       to
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       Keeper
                       of
                       the
                       Kings
                       Gaol
                       of
                       Newgate
                       aforesaid
                       ;
                       And
                       the
                       Jurors
                       of
                       the
                       Jury
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       by
                       the
                       Sheriff
                       of
                       the
                       County
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       hereunto
                       impannelled
                       ,
                       being
                       called
                       ,
                       came
                       ,
                       who
                       being
                       chosen
                       ,
                       tryed
                       and
                       sworn
                       to
                       speak
                       the
                       Truth
                       upon
                       the
                       Premisses
                       ,
                       say
                       upon
                       their
                       Oaths
                       ,
                       that
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       is
                       guilty
                       of
                       the
                       High
                       Treason
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       in
                       the
                       Indictment
                       aforesaid
                       specified
                       ,
                       in
                       manner
                       
                       and
                       Form
                       as
                       by
                       the
                       said
                       Indictment
                       above
                       against
                       him
                       his
                       supposed
                       ;
                       and
                       that
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       at
                       the
                       time
                       of
                       perpetration
                       of
                       the
                       High
                       Treason
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       or
                       at
                       any
                       time
                       afterwards
                       had
                       no
                       Goods
                       ,
                       Chattels
                       ,
                       Lands
                       or
                       Tenements
                       to
                       the
                       knowledge
                       of
                       the
                       Jurors
                       aforesaid
                       ;
                       And
                       the
                       aforesaid
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       being
                       asked
                       if
                       he
                       hath
                       any
                       thing
                       ,
                       or
                       knows
                       what
                       to
                       say
                       for
                       himself
                       ,
                       why
                       the
                       Court
                       here
                       ought
                       not
                       to
                       proceed
                       to
                       Judgment
                       and
                       Execution
                       of
                       him
                       upon
                       the
                       Verdict
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       saith
                       nothing
                       ,
                       but
                       as
                       before
                       he
                       had
                       said
                       :
                       And
                       hereupon
                       instantly
                       the
                       Attorney
                       General
                       of
                       our
                       said
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       according
                       to
                       due
                       form
                       of
                       Law
                       ,
                       demandeth
                       against
                       him
                       the
                       said
                       Edward
                       ,
                       Judgment
                       and
                       Execution
                       to
                       be
                       had
                       upon
                       the
                       Verdict
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       for
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King.
                       Whereupon
                       all
                       and
                       singular
                       the
                       Premisses
                       being
                       viewed
                       ,
                       and
                       by
                       the
                       Court
                       here
                       understood
                       :
                       It
                       is
                       considered
                       ,
                       That
                       the
                       said
                       
                         Edward
                         Coleman
                      
                       be
                       led
                       by
                       the
                       said
                       Keeper
                       of
                       the
                       Gaol
                       of
                       Newgate
                       aforesaid
                       unto
                       Newgate
                       aforesaid
                       ,
                       &
                       from
                       thence
                       directly
                       be
                       drawn
                       to
                       the
                       Gallows
                       of
                       Tyburn
                       ,
                       and
                       upon
                       those
                       Gallows
                       there
                       be
                       hanged
                       ,
                       and
                       be
                       cut
                       down
                       alive
                       to
                       the
                       Earth
                       ,
                       and
                       his
                       Entrals
                       be
                       taken
                       out
                       of
                       hi●
                       Belly
                       and
                       be
                       burned
                       (
                       he
                       still
                       living
                       :
                       )
                       and
                       that
                       the
                       Head
                       of
                       him
                       be
                       cut
                       off
                       ▪
                       and
                       that
                       the
                       Body
                       of
                       him
                       be
                       divided
                       into
                       Four
                       parts
                       ;
                       and
                       that
                       those
                       Head
                       and
                       Quarters
                       be
                       put
                       where
                       our
                       Lord
                       the
                       King
                       will
                       assign
                       them
                       ,
                       &c.
                       
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               hear
               one
               word
               he
               says
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               this
               does
               not
               concern
               your
               Lordship
               any
               further
               ,
               than
               as
               to
               the
               generality
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               have
               now
               done
               with
               our
               Proofs
               for
               the
               first
               general
               head
               that
               we
               opened
               ,
               which
               was
               to
               make
               it
               out
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Plot
               in
               general
               .
               We
               now
               come
               to
               give
               our
               particular
               Evidence
               against
               this
               very
               Lord
               ,
               and
               before
               we
               do
               begin
               ,
               we
               think
               fit
               to
               acquaint
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               our
               Evidence
               will
               take
               up
               some
               time
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               will
               have
               the
               patience
               to
               hear
               it
               now
               ,
               we
               will
               give
               it
               ;
               but
               if
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               sit
               so
               long
               till
               we
               can
               finish
               it
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               some
               inconvenience
               to
               us
               to
               break
               off
               in
               the
               middle
               .
               And
               therefore
               we
               humbly
               offer
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               consideration
               ,
               whether
               you
               will
               hear
               it
               now
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               it
               cannot
               be
               all
               given
               and
               heard
               now
               ,
               it
               were
               better
               all
               should
               be
               given
               to
               morrow
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               then
               ,
               we
               will
               reserve
               it
               till
               to
               morrow
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               only
               have
               your
               directions
               ,
               whether
               I
               shall
               answer
               this
               General
               first
               ,
               or
               stay
               till
               all
               be
               said
               against
               me
               ?
               That
               which
               I
               have
               to
               say
               to
               this
               General
               ,
               will
               be
               very
               short
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               are
               to
               make
               all
               your
               Answer
               entire
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               best
               for
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               am
               very
               well
               contented
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               be
               the
               better
               prepared
               for
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               ,
               that
               we
               should
               Adjourn
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               this
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chember
               .
               And
               the
               Lords
               went
               away
               in
               the
               same
               Order
               they
               came
               .
            
          
           
             The
             Commons
             returned
             to
             their
             House
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Speaker
             resumed
             the
             Chair
             ,
             and
             then
             the
             House
             Adjourned
             to
             eight
             of
             the
             clock
             the
             next
             morning
             .
          
        
         
           
           
             The
             Second
             Day
             .
          
           
             Wednesday
             December
             1.
             1680.
             
          
           
             A
             Message
             was
             sent
             from
             the
             Lords
             by
             Sir
             
               Timothy
               Baldwyn
            
             and
             Sir
             
               Samuel
               Clark.
            
             
          
           
             Mr
             Speaker
             ,
          
           
             The
             Lords
             have
             sent
             us
             to
             acquaint
             this
             House
             ,
             That
             they
             intend
             to
             proceed
             to
             the
             Tryal
             of
             William
             Viscount
             Stafford
             ,
             at
             ten
             of
             the
             clock
             this
             morning
             in
             Westminster-Hall
             .
          
           
             Mr.
             Speaker
             left
             the
             Chair
             ,
             and
             the
             Commons
             came
             into
             
               Westminster
               Hall
            
             in
             the
             new
             erected
             Court.
             
          
           
             And
             the
             Managers
             appointed
             by
             the
             Commons
             went
             into
             the
             Room
             prepared
             for
             them
             in
             that
             Court
             ,
             to
             proceed
             to
             the
             particular
             Evidence
             against
             William
             Viscount
             Stafford
             .
          
           
             About
             ten
             of
             the
             clock
             in
             the
             morning
             the
             Lords
             came
             into
             the
             said
             Court
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             ,
             and
             Proclamation
             being
             made
             of
             Silence
             ,
             and
             for
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             to
             bring
             his
             Prisoner
             to
             the
             Bar
             ,
             they
             proceeded
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               expect
               you
               should
               go
               on
               with
               your
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               proceed
               in
               the
               Tryal
               of
               this
               Noble
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               humbly
               desire
               that
               my
               Counsel
               may
               be
               near
               me
               for
               the
               Arguing
               of
               what
               is
               fit
               to
               them
               to
               speak
               to
               ,
               as
               to
               points
               of
               Law
               ,
               for
               points
               of
               Fact
               I
               do
               not
               desire
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               have
               an
               Order
               for
               your
               Counsel
               to
               attend
               ,
               and
               they
               must
               and
               ought
               to
               attend
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               The
               Counsel
               must
               not
               suggest
               any
               thing
               to
               him
               while
               the
               Evidence
               is
               giving
               ,
               they
               are
               not
               to
               be
               heard
               as
               to
               matter
               of
               Fact.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               It
               is
               not
               intended
               to
               make
               use
               of
               Counsel
               ,
               as
               to
               matter
               of
               Fact
               ,
               but
               they
               may
               stand
               by
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               they
               may
               stand
               within
               hearing
               ,
               but
               not
               within
               prompting
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               assure
               you
               ,
               if
               I
               had
               all
               the
               Counsel
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               make
               use
               of
               them
               for
               any
               matter
               of
               Fact.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               will
               you
               please
               to
               order
               them
               to
               stand
               at
               a
               convenient
               distance
               ,
               that
               they
               may
               not
               prompt
               the
               Prisoner
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               consider
               ,
               that
               a
               man
               in
               a
               Capital
               Cause
               ought
               not
               to
               have
               Counsel
               to
               matter
               of
               Fact.
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               he
               may
               advise
               with
               his
               Counsel
               ,
               I
               deny
               it
               not
               ;
               but
               for
               him
               in
               the
               face
               of
               the
               Court
               
               to
               communicate
               with
               his
               Counsel
               ,
               and
               by
               them
               be
               told
               what
               he
               shall
               say
               ,
               as
               to
               matters
               of
               Fact
               ,
               is
               that
               which
               (
               with
               submission
               )
               is
               not
               to
               be
               allowed
               .
               If
               your
               Lordships
               order
               they
               shall
               be
               within
               hearing
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               oppose
               it
               ,
               but
               then
               I
               desire
               they
               may
               stand
               at
               that
               distance
               that
               there
               may
               be
               no
               means
               of
               intercouse
               ,
               unless
               points
               in
               Law
               do
               arise
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               were
               best
               make
               that
               exception
               when
               there
               is
               Cause
               for
               it
               ,
               in
               the
               mean
               time
               go
               on
               with
               your
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               We
               did
               perceive
               his
               Counsel
               came
               up
               towards
               the
               Bar
               ,
               and
               very
               near
               him
               ,
               and
               therefore
               we
               thought
               it
               our
               duty
               to
               speak
               before
               any
               inconvenience
               happened
               .
               This
               Lord
               being
               accused
               of
               High
               Treason
               ,
               the
               allowing
               of
               Counsel
               is
               not
               a
               matter
               of
               Discretion
               .
               If
               matters
               of
               Law
               arise
               ,
               all
               our
               Books
               say
               ,
               that
               Counsel
               ought
               to
               be
               allowed
               .
               But
               we
               pray
               that
               there
               may
               be
               no
               Counsel
               to
               advise
               him
               in
               matter
               of
               Fact
               ,
               nor
               till
               your
               Lordships
               find
               some
               Question
               of
               Law
               to
               arise
               upon
               the
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               there
               is
               Cause
               take
               the
               Exception
               ,
               but
               they
               do
               not
               as
               yet
               misbehave
               themselves
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               presume
               your
               Lordships
               did
               ,
               from
               the
               strength
               and
               clearness
               of
               yesterdays
               Evidence
               ,
               receive
               full
               satisfaction
               concerning
               the
               general
               Plot
               and
               Conspiracy
               of
               the
               
                 Popish
                 Party
              
               .
            
             
               It
               being
               an
               Evidence
               apparently
               invincible
               ;
               not
               out
               of
               the
               mouths
               of
               two
               or
               three
               Witnesses
               only
               ,
               but
               of
               twice
               that
               number
               (
               or
               more
               )
               credible
               persons
               .
            
             
               Upon
               which
               we
               doubt
               not
               but
               your
               Lordships
               who
               hear
               ,
               and
               Strangers
               and
               unborn
               Posterity
               when
               they
               shall
               hear
               ,
               will
               justifie
               this
               Prosecution
               of
               the
               Commons
               ,
               and
               will
               allow
               that
               this
               Impeachment
               is
               the
               proper
               voice
               of
               the
               Nation
               crying
               out
               ,
               as
               when
               the
               knife
               is
               at
               the
               throat
               .
               By
               the
               Evidence
               already
               given
               ,
               I
               say
               ,
               it
               is
               manife●t
               that
               there
               was
               a
               general
               grand
               Design
               to
               destroy
               our
               Religion
               ,
               our
               King
               ,
               and
               his
               Protestant
               Subjects
               .
               And
               't
               is
               even
               impossible
               that
               this
               Design
               ,
               so
               big
               ,
               could
               be
               conducted
               without
               the
               concurrence
               of
               such
               persons
               as
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar.
               It
               could
               not
               be
               carried
               on
               by
               less
               and
               lower
               men
               .
            
             
               And
               it
               were
               a
               wonder
               ,
               that
               a
               person
               so
               servently
               affected
               and
               addicted
               (
               as
               this
               Lord
               is
               )
               to
               that
               Party
               ,
               should
               not
               be
               in
               ,
               at
               so
               general
               a
               Design
               of
               the
               Party
               .
            
             
               But
               this
               indeed
               is
               but
               presumptive
               Evidence
               which
               will
               induce
               a
               moral
               persuasion
               .
            
             
               We
               shall
               now
               produce
               such
               positive
               Evidence
               as
               will
               make
               a
               judicial
               certainty
               ;
               and
               will
               abundantly
               suffice
               to
               convince
               your
               Lordships
               and
               convict
               this
               Lord.
               
            
             
               The
               Particulars
               you
               will
               hear
               out
               of
               the
               mouths
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               ,
               whom
               we
               shall
               call
               :
               They
               will
               testifie
               what
               share
               this
               Lord
               had
               in
               (
               almost
               )
               all
               the
               Parts
               and
               Articles
               in
               our
               Charge
               ;
               contriving
               and
               contracting
               for
               the
               
                 Murder
                 of
                 the
                 King
              
               ,
               levying
               Arms
               ,
               &c.
               
               And
               first
               we
               call
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               conceive
               I
               have
               good
               ground
               to
               except
               against
               this
               man
               for
               a
               Witness
               ;
               for
               my
               own
               particular
               ,
               I
               know
               myself
               as
               clear
               ●nd
               
               free
               as
               any
               one
               here
               ,
               but
               I
               will
               not
               except
               against
               him
               now
               ,
               but
               reserve
               it
               against
               the
               time
               when
               I
               come
               to
               make
               my
               Defence
               ,
               and
               therefore
               admit
               him
               to
               be
               sworn
               ,
               provided
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               that
               he
               look
               me
               full
               in
               the
               face
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               what
               is
               your
               Exception
               against
               this
               man
               that
               he
               may
               not
               be
               a
               Witness
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               admit
               him
               to
               be
               sworn
               ,
               I
               say
               nothing
               now
               against
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               sworn
               already
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               swore
               him
               to
               give
               Evidence
               as
               to
               the
               general
               Plot
               ;
               you
               did
               not
               swear
               him
               as
               to
               the
               particulars
               against
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               We
               are
               content
               he
               shall
               be
               sworn
               again
               ,
               we
               pray
               he
               may
               be
               sworn
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               did
               divide
               the
               Evidence
               into
               two
               parts
               ,
               but
               his
               Oath
               was
               not
               divided
               ;
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               you
               may
               swear
               them
               all
               over
               again
               ,
               if
               it
               may
               be
               any
               satisfaction
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               it
               was
               never
               seen
               before
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               There
               is
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               come
               Sir
               ,
               what
               say
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Really
               he
               is
               so
               changed
               I
               do
               not
               know
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               have
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               that
               you
               know
               me
               ,
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               that
               he
               may
               look
               me
               in
               the
               face
               and
               give
               his
               Evidence
               ,
               as
               the
               Law
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               the
               prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar
               will
               have
               this
               Witness
               to
               look
               him
               continually
               in
               the
               face
               ,
               the
               Court
               will
               not
               hear
               half
               his
               Evidence
               ;
               We
               desire
               he
               may
               address
               himself
               as
               the
               Law
               is
               to
               your
               Lordships
               and
               the
               Judges
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               desire
               the
               Letter
               of
               the
               Law
               ,
               which
               says
               ,
               my
               Accuser
               shall
               come
               face
               to
               face
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               willing
               to
               do
               as
               your
               Lordships
               shall
               order
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               do
               see
               the
               Witness
               ,
               that
               is
               enough
               for
               face
               to
               face
               ,
               and
               you
               make
               no
               legal
               exception
               against
               him
               ,
               why
               he
               should
               not
               be
               heard
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Very
               well
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               submit
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               for
               some
               years
               past
               whilst
               I
               was
               a
               Servant
               with
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               been
               acquainted
               and
               frequently
               had
               Discourses
               with
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               before
               we
               came
               to
               discourse
               any
               thing
               concerning
               the
               Plot
               on
               foot
               .
               Lately
               in
               (
               78.
               )
               my
               Lord
               coming
               down
               into
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               it
               was
               either
               in
               August
               or
               September
               ,
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               he
               may
               name
               the
               times
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               please
               do
               not
               interrupt
               the
               Witnesses
               ,
               but
               wherein
               he
               is
               short
               ,
               do
               you
               ask
               him
               the
               Question
               when
               it
               comes
               to
               your
               turn
               ,
               I
               will
               bring
               it
               to
               as
               much
               certainty
               as
               I
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               There
               was
               a
               meeting
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               where
               there
               were
               several
               present
               —
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               in
               September
               or
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               (
               78.
               )
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               had
               then
               by
               Mr.
               Evers
               means
               ,
               admittance
               to
               hear
               ,
               because
               of
               my
               incouragement
               ,
               what
               the
               Discourse
               was
               at
               that
               time
               .
               It
               was
               to
               debate
               and
               determine
               upon
               the
               former
               Resolutions
               both
               beyond
               Sea
               and
               at
               London
               ,
               before
               both
               to
               take
               away
               the
               life
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               to
               introduce
               their
               Religion
               ,
               of
               which
               I
               was
               then
               one
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               there
               present
               ,
               and
               did
               with
               the
               rest
               consent
               to
               it
               .
               Afterwards
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               being
               at
               one
               Mr.
               Abnets
               of
               Stafford
               one
               Sunday
               morning
               in
               September
               ,
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               House
               to
               Mass
               :
               I
               met
               with
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               some
               distance
               from
               the
               Gate
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               speaking
               to
               me
               when
               he
               alighted
               off
               from
               his
               Horse
               ,
               told
               me
               ,
               it
               was
               a
               very
               sad
               thing
               they
               could
               not
               say
               their
               Prayers
               ,
               but
               in
               an
               hidden
               manner
               ,
               but
               e're
               long
               we
               should
               have
               our
               Religion
               established
               ;
               which
               was
               much
               to
               my
               joy
               at
               that
               time
               .
               After
               that
               time
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               sometimes
               at
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               sometimes
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               b●
               positive
               as
               to
               a
               day
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               it
               was
               about
               the
               middle
               of
               September
               :
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               sent
               for
               me
               to
               his
               lodging
               Chamber
               ,
               as
               he
               had
               several
               times
               before
               sent
               for
               me
               :
               and
               said
               ,
               he
               had
               had
               great
               Commendations
               of
               me
               from
               Mr.
               Evers
               that
               I
               was
               Faithful
               and
               Trusty
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               have
               Pen
               ,
               Ink
               and
               Paper
               allowed
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               God
               forbid
               you
               should
               be
               denied
               that
               ;
               Give
               my
               Lord
               Pen
               ,
               Ink
               and
               Paper
               :
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordship
               hath
               one
               to
               assist
               you
               that
               takes
               Notes
               for
               you
               ,
               if
               you
               have
               not
               ,
               you
               have
               lost
               a
               great
               deal
               of
               time
               already
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               There
               was
               one
               all
               day
               yesterday
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               speak
               his
               Evidence
               over
               again
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Let
               him
               begin
               his
               Evidence
               again
               ,
               for
               my
               Lord
               had
               not
               Pen
               ,
               Ink
               nor
               Paper
               ,
               which
               he
               ought
               to
               have
               ,
               to
               help
               his
               memory
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               may
               miss
               as
               to
               the
               words
               ,
               but
               the
               matter
               of
               Fact
               I
               shall
               repeat
               ;
               my
               Lords
               I
               have
               been
               frequently
               acquainted
               whilst
               I
               was
               a
               Servant
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               with
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               coming
               to
               my
               Lords
               House
               in
               the
               Coun●rey
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               being
               several
               times
               there
               I
               came
               to
               that
               Intimacy
               by
               Mr.
               Evers
               means
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               would
               frequently
               discourse
               with
               me
               .
               About
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               or
               some
               day
               in
               September
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               and
               several
               other
               Gentlemen
               ,
               were
               in
               a
               Room
               in
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               House
               ,
               and
               by
               the
               means
               of
               Mr.
               Evers
               I
               was
               admitted
               to
               hear
               for
               my
               incouragement
               ;
               and
               there
               I
               heard
               them
               in
               that
               Debate
               at
               that
               time
               fully
               determine
               a
               Resolution
               upon
               all
               the
               Debates
               that
               had
               been
               beyond
               Sea
               and
               at
               London
               before
               ,
               That
               it
               was
               the
               best
               way
               they
               could
               resolve
               on
               to
               take
               away
               the
               life
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               as
               the
               speediest
               means
               to
               introduce
               their
               own
               Religion
               .
               After
               sometime
               my
               Lord
               being
               at
               Stafford
               at
               Mr.
               Abnets
               —
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               that
               meeting
               ,
               where
               they
               debated
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               he
               consenting
               to
               that
               Resolution
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               heard
               every
               one
               give
               their
               particular
               full
               assent
               .
            
          
           
             (
             At
             which
             there
             was
             a
             great
             Hum
             :
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               the
               meaning
               of
               this
               ?
               For
               the
               Honour
               and
               Dignity
               of
               publick
               Justice
               ,
               let
               us
               not
               carry
               it
               as
               if
               we
               were
               in
               a
               Theatre
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Some
               times
               in
               September
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               being
               at
               Mr.
               Abnets
               House
               in
               Stafford
               ,
               came
               once
               upon
               a
               Sunday
               morning
               to
               hear
               Mass
               :
               I
               meeting
               him
               at
               the
               outward
               Gate
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               House
               when
               he
               alighted
               off
               his
               Horse
               ,
               after
               some
               Discourse
               he
               turned
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               told
               me
               ,
               It
               was
               a
               sad
               thing
               we
               could
               not
               say
               our
               Prayers
               but
               in
               an
               hidden
               manner
               ,
               but
               e're
               long
               if
               things
               took
               effect
               we
               should
               have
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               established
               .
               And
               I
               at
               that
               time
               did
               seem
               to
               be
               ,
               and
               really
               was
               as
               glad
               as
               any
               person
               could
               be
               .
               After
               some
               time
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               was
               about
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               sent
               for
               me
               into
               his
               lodging
               Room
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               was
               by
               his
               page
               ,
               or
               him
               that
               waited
               upon
               him
               in
               his
               Chamber
               :
               and
               he
               told
               me
               I
               must
               come
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               I
               immediately
               went
               to
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               he
               was
               just
               then
               arising
               and
               dressing
               ,
               he
               sent
               his
               men
               out
               ,
               and
               told
               me
               ,
               he
               had
               had
               a
               good
               Accompt
               from
               Mr.
               Evers
               and
               other
               Genlemen
               that
               I
               would
               be
               faithful
               and
               true
               to
               their
               Intentions
               about
               the
               introducing
               their
               Religion
               .
               He
               told
               me
               ,
               he
               was
               likewise
               concerned
               himself
               ,
               and
               that
               in
               a
               very
               high
               degree
               :
               and
               for
               taking
               away
               the
               Life
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               he
               offered
               me
               at
               that
               time
               for
               my
               Charges
               and
               Encouragement
               500
               l.
               and
               that
               I
               should
               go
               in
               October
               after
               to
               London
               with
               him
               (
               my
               Lord
               
                 Stafford
                 ,
              
               )
               and
               that
               I
               should
               be
               with
               him
               sometimes
               at
               London
               ,
               and
               sometimes
               at
               an
               House
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               about
               twenty
               five
               miles
               from
               London
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               should
               be
               under
               the
               care
               of
               him
               in
               London
               and
               Mr.
               Ireland
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               of
               one
               Mr.
               Parsons
               that
               knew
               of
               the
               Design
               .
               I
               did
               then
               shew
               as
               much
               resolution
               to
               be
               faithful
               to
               my
               Lord
               as
               I
               could
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               would
               be
               true
               to
               what
               my
               Lord
               then
               engaged
               me
               .
               I
               after
               went
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               and
               communicated
               to
               him
               what
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               said
               ,
               and
               was
               something
               in
               admiration
               at
               my
               Lord
               's
               offering
               me
               such
               a
               Sum
               of
               Money
               ,
               for
               I
               doubted
               of
               my
               Lords
               Ability
               to
               make
               good
               Payment
               .
               He
               told
               me
               ,
               that
               I
               need
               not
               sear
               it
               ,
               for
               Mr.
               Harcourt
               and
               Mr.
               Ireland
               had
               Money
               enough
               in
               their
               hands
               to
               def●ay
               that
               and
               other
               Charges
               ,
               and
               I
               should
               not
               want
               Money
               for
               the
               carrying
               it
               on
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               remember
               that
               at
               another
               time
               there
               was
               a
               meeting
               ,
               wherein
               there
               was
               a
               Debate
               about
               my
               going
               up
               ,
               and
               other
               businesses
               ;
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               present
               ,
               and
               there
               were
               several
               there
               besides
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               kn●w
               them
               all
               then
               ;
               but
               in
               the
               first
               place
               they
               told
               me
               I
               should
               be
               made
               equal
               with
               one
               Captain
               Adderly
               that
               is
               since
               dead
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               should
               have
               a
               Reward
               in
               London
               :
               I
               understood
               that
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Arundel
               and
               my
               Lord
               Bellasis
               
               and
               others
               were
               to
               give
               me
               it
               ;
               and
               speaking
               of
               the
               Rewards
               to
               those
               that
               were
               ingaged
               ,
               they
               said
               ▪
               there
               would
               be
               Land
               enough
               from
               the
               Protestants
               to
               satisfie
               all
               that
               acted
               in
               the
               Design
               .
               Another
               time
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               discoursing
               in
               a
               Dining
               Room
               in
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               House
               ,
               did
               express
               his
               great
               Zeal
               ,
               and
               the
               reason
               why
               he
               was
               such
               an
               Enemy
               against
               the
               King
               :
               he
               said
               ,
               both
               he
               and
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               had
               been
               great
               Sufferers
               for
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               for
               his
               Father
               ,
               and
               that
               my
               Lord
               in
               particular
               his
               Grandfather
               or
               his
               Father
               had
               spent
               30000
               l.
               in
               the
               Kings
               Service
               ,
               and
               had
               no
               Recompence
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               always
               shewed
               himself
               Loyal
               to
               the
               King
               ,
               but
               whenever
               there
               came
               any
               place
               of
               Preferment
               to
               be
               disposed
               of
               ,
               it
               was
               rather
               given
               to
               such
               as
               had
               been
               Traytors
               and
               Rebels
               to
               the
               old
               King
               ,
               and
               likewise
               to
               the
               King
               himself
               than
               to
               any
               that
               had
               been
               had
               Loyal
               .
               He
               said
               ,
               this
               was
               his
               chief
               Motive
               ,
               if
               there
               were
               not
               Religion
               in
               the
               Case
               ,
               which
               was
               of
               an
               higher
               nature
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               was
               this
               last
               Discourse
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               In
               September
               (
               78.
               )
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               for
               we
               had
               several
               Discourses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               This
               was
               not
               the
               time
               you
               were
               at
               my
               Lords
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               No
               it
               was
               in
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Dining
               Room
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               nor
               when
               he
               sent
               for
               you
               to
               offer
               you
               the
               500
               l.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               not
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               it
               was
               another
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Month
               and
               Year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               September
               (
               78.
               )
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               give
               your
               Lordships
               an
               account
               what
               assurance
               he
               had
               of
               Pardon
               ,
               if
               he
               did
               succeed
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               told
               I
               need
               not
               fear
               ,
               and
               particularly
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               told
               me
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               a
               free
               Pardon
               for
               it
               ,
               for
               the
               King
               had
               been
               Excommunicated
               ,
               and
               was
               likewise
               a
               Traytor
               ,
               and
               a
               Rebel
               ,
               and
               an
               Enemy
               to
               Jesus
               Christ
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               But
               how
               could
               you
               be
               Pardoned
               ?
               From
               whom
               were
               you
               to
               have
               that
               Pardon
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               to
               be
               Pardoned
               by
               the
               Pope
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               was
               for
               your
               Sins
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               expected
               no
               other
               if
               I
               had
               gone
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Were
               you
               promised
               nothing
               else
               but
               a
               Pardon
               from
               the
               Pope
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               was
               to
               be
               Sainted
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Will
               his
               Lordship
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ,
               we
               ask
               him
               no
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               desire
               another
               Question
               may
               be
               asked
               him
               ,
               that
               he
               would
               give
               an
               account
               of
               the
               Letters
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               writ
               to
               Evers
               about
               the
               Design
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               that
               Question
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               There
               came
               a
               Letter
               to
               Evers
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               I
               knew
               it
               to
               be
               my
               Lords
               hand
               ,
               some
               might
               counterfeit
               his
               hand
               ,
               but
               as
               near
               as
               a
               man
               
               can
               swear
               to
               the
               hand
               of
               another
               in
               a
               Paper
               he
               did
               not
               see
               written
               ,
               that
               was
               my
               Lords-hand
               ;
               That
               things
               went
               all
               well
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               and
               so
               he
               did
               hope
               they
               did
               here
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               the
               Design
               ,
               it
               was
               to
               this
               purpose
               expresly
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               We
               have
               done
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               divers
               Questions
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               very
               many
               ,
               but
               I
               humbly
               crave
               your
               Lordships
               Directions
               ,
               if
               I
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               now
               ,
               whether
               I
               may
               not
               ask
               him
               some
               afterwards
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               may
               ask
               Questions
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               as
               often
               as
               you
               please
               ,
               and
               when
               ever
               you
               find
               it
               useful
               to
               you
               ,
               God
               forbid
               there
               should
               be
               any
               time
               to
               foreclose
               a
               man
               from
               asking
               a
               Question
               that
               may
               save
               his
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               pray
               he
               may
               be
               asked
               how
               long
               before
               this
               time
               he
               knew
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               How
               long
               have
               you
               known
               this
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               In
               general
               ,
               for
               the
               introducing
               of
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               ,
               and
               the
               incouragement
               to
               it
               by
               the
               Duke
               of
               Yorks
               being
               Successor
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               it
               15
               or
               16
               years
               by
               the
               means
               of
               Mr.
               Evers
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               understand
               him
               ,
               he
               says
               ,
               he
               knew
               of
               the
               Plot
               15
               or
               16
               years
               ago
               ,
               if
               I
               be
               not
               mistaken
               ,
               he
               says
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               explain
               my self
               further
               ,
               it
               was
               not
               for
               taking
               away
               the
               life
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               but
               for
               making
               ready
               against
               the
               King
               died
               with
               Men
               and
               Arms.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               ,
               in
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               such
               and
               suc●
               things
               ,
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               name
               the
               day
               ,
               that
               may
               be
               many
               days
               ,
               and
               I
               may
               prove
               I
               was
               not
               there
               ,
               and
               I
               can
               prove
               for
               all
               August
               ,
               and
               a
               good
               while
               in
               September
               ,
               therefore
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               name
               the
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               I
               come
               thus
               near
               on
               purpose
               to
               serve
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               that
               you
               may
               not
               strain
               your
               voice
               too
               much
               ,
               but
               I
               am
               not
               so
               happy
               as
               to
               apprehend
               what
               it
               is
               you
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               say
               ,
               he
               speaks
               of
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               which
               is
               too
               great
               a
               latitude
               ,
               and
               I
               conceive
               more
               than
               ought
               to
               be
               given
               in
               such
               a
               matter
               of
               importance
               as
               this
               is
               to
               me
               ;
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               name
               the
               day
               ,
               for
               he
               may
               name
               days
               perhaps
               that
               I
               was
               not
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Look
               you
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               my
               Lord
               does
               desire
               ,
               if
               you
               can
               ,
               you
               would
               be
               a
               little
               more
               particular
               than
               about
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               if
               you
               can
               remember
               the
               day
               tell
               it
               us
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               I
               cannot
               remember
               particular
               days
               ,
               it
               being
               a
               thing
               I
               then
               took
               no
               account
               of
               ,
               only
               this
               I
               do
               remember
               by
               a
               remarkable
               circumstance
               ,
               that
               one
               time
               was
               either
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               was
               the
               time
               of
               your
               coming
               into
               his
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               his
               offering
               you
               five
               hundred
               pound
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               It
               was
               so
               ,
               but
               other
               meetings
               I
               dare
               not
               charge
               to
               a
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               How
               then
               can
               I
               make
               my
               Defence
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               stand
               to
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               How
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               can
               I
               be
               able
               to
               give
               an
               account
               of
               it
               ?
               I
               shall
               prove
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               he
               once
               said
               it
               was
               in
               August
               ,
               now
               he
               says
               it
               was
               in
               August
               or
               September
               .
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               that
               he
               may
               positively
               stand
               to
               the
               month
               ,
               if
               not
               to
               the
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               speak
               as
               neer
               as
               I
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               he
               says
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               particularly
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Thereabouts
               I
               am
               sure
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Look
               you
               ,
               he
               will
               be
               positive
               in
               nothing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               stand
               to
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               he
               swears
               false
               in
               one
               thing
               ,
               I
               hope
               upon
               proof
               of
               that
               your
               Lordships
               will
               believe
               he
               may
               be
               false
               in
               all
               .
               I
               pray
               he
               may
               be
               asked
               what
               hour
               of
               the
               day
               it
               was
               ,
               whether
               it
               was
               morning
               or
               afternoon
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               positive
               only
               to
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               ,
               the
               time
               when
               he
               says
               you
               called
               for
               him
               into
               your
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               offered
               him
               five
               hundred
               pound
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ;
               would
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               him
               whether
               it
               were
               in
               the
               forenoon
               or
               afternoon
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               would
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               it
               in
               the
               forenoon
               ,
               or
               in
               the
               afternoon
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               in
               the
               forenoon
               ;
               for
               I
               did
               formerly
               speak
               of
               that
               ,
               he
               was
               dressing
               himself
               when
               I
               came
               in
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               that
               is
               answered
               positively
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               one
               Sunday
               morning
               I
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               Astons
               to
               Mass
               ,
               I
               desire
               you
               would
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               ever
               he
               saw
               Mr.
               Evers
               and
               me
               in
               his
               life
               alone
               together
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               seen
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               and
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               ever
               together
               alone
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Several
               times
               I
               have
               seen
               them
               walking
               together
               in
               the
               Garden
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               Walks
               at
               my
               Lord
               Astons
               ;
               and
               I
               have
               been
               with
               them
               my self
               when
               there
               hath
               been
               only
               them
               two
               besides
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               is
               answered
               fully
               ;
               will
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               him
               any
               thing
               else
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               he
               was
               to
               go
               to
               London
               in
               October
               with
               me
               ,
               I
               stand
               not
               upon
               that
               till
               I
               come
               to
               make
               my
               Answer
               ;
               but
               I
               take
               it
               ,
               he
               says
               ,
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               ,
               when
               I
               offered
               him
               five
               hundred
               pound
               ,
               in
               my
               Chamber
               ,
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               that
               he
               went
               presently
               to
               Evers
               to
               speak
               with
               him
               about
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               As
               doubting
               the
               payment
               of
               the
               money
               ,
               and
               he
               told
               him
               ,
               that
               Harcourt
               and
               Ireland
               would
               pay
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Was
               it
               the
               same
               day
               ,
               pray
               ask
               him
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               say
               it
               was
               the
               same
               day
               ,
               but
               it
               was
               the
               next
               time
               I
               could
               come
               to
               speak
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               He
               tells
               you
               it
               was
               as
               soon
               as
               he
               could
               speak
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               said
               before
               it
               was
               presently
               after
               he
               went
               from
               me
               .
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               would
               take
               notice
               how
               he
               contradicts
               himself
               in
               every
               circumstance
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               did
               you
               go
               presently
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               after
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               had
               made
               the
               offer
               ?
               Or
               was
               it
               the
               same
               day
               or
               the
               next
               day
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               To
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               it
               was
               the
               same
               day
               ;
               I
               can't
               say
               positively
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               no
               other
               Questions
               with
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               ,
            
             
               Then
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               another
               Witness
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               Dugdale
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Not
               at
               present
               till
               I
               come
               to
               make
               my
               defence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               God
               forbid
               ,
               but
               you
               should
               have
               leave
               to
               say
               all
               that
               you
               can
               for
               your self
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Then
               set
               up
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
               Do
               your
               Lordships
               require
               that
               he
               should
               be
               sworn
               again
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               nothing
               ,
               nor
               propose
               it
               ,
               if
               he
               will
               declare
               upon
               his
               Oath
               that
               he
               took
               yesterday
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Heark
               you
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               This
               is
               but
               a
               continuation
               of
               the
               Proceedings
               yesterday
               ,
               you
               are
               upon
               the
               same
               Oath
               now
               that
               you
               were
               then
               ,
               and
               what
               you
               say
               this
               morning
               will
               be
               taken
               to
               be
               upon
               the
               same
               Oath
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               upon
               the
               Oath
               you
               have
               taken
               yesterday
               —
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               swear
               him
               again
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
               Pray
               speak
               your
               knowledge
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               being
               ing
               aged
               in
               the
               Design
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               be
               left
               to
               my
               own
               method
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Go
               on
               in
               your
               own
               method
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               67.
               )
               there
               were
               divers
               attempts
               upon
               the
               life
               of
               the
               King
               as
               the
               Jesuits
               told
               me
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               year
               (
               74.
               )
               there
               was
               an
               attempt
               upon
               the
               account
               of
               the
               Kings
               withdrawing
               the
               Indulgence
               in
               (
               74.
               )
               and
               (
               75.
               )
               in
               the
               year
               1677.
               whilst
               I
               was
               in
               Spain
               I
               met
               with
               several
               letters
               signed
               Stafford
               ,
               wherein
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               assure
               the
               Jesuits
               in
               Spain
               ,
               that
               were
               of
               the
               Irish
               Nation
               ,
               how
               zealous
               he
               should
               appear
               in
               the
               promoting
               of
               the
               Catholick
               Design
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               77.
               )
               I
               went
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               and
               I
               came
               there
               in
               December
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               that
               year
               I
               being
               ordered
               to
               look
               over
               the
               Papers
               and
               put
               them
               in
               order
               ;
               I
               found
               several
               Letters
               signed
               Stafford
               ,
               wherein
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               intimate
               to
               the
               Fathers
               that
               whereas
               there
               had
               been
               some
               difference
               betwixt
               him
               and
               the
               Society
               for
               several
               years
               ,
               the
               business
               was
               reconciled
               by
               one
               Seignior
               Con
               ,
               who
               came
               over
               into
               England
               in
               the
               year
               (
               76.
               )
               to
               reconcile
               the
               great
               Difference
               that
               was
               betwixt
               the
               Jesuits
               and
               the
               secular
               Clergy
               ,
               and
               between
               the
               Benedictine
               Monks
               and
               the
               Jesuits
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               upon
               the
               perswasion
               
               of
               this
               Seignior
               Con
               ,
               as
               he
               does
               intimate
               in
               his
               letter
               ,
               does
               assure
               the
               Jesuits
               of
               his
               fidelity
               and
               his
               zeal
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               78.
               )
               I
               found
               letters
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               wherein
               he
               does
               blame
               Mr.
               
               Coleman's
               openness
               ,
               and
               his
               being
               too
               publick
               in
               the
               great
               Affair
               ,
               and
               that
               Mr.
               Coleman
               was
               pleased
               to
               communicate
               several
               great
               secrets
               to
               men
               ,
               of
               whose
               Fidelity
               his
               Lordship
               was
               not
               secure
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               78.
               )
               in
               the
               month
               of
               June
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               came
               to
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               ,
               and
               there
               received
               a
               Commission
               from
               him
               to
               pay
               an
               Army
               that
               was
               to
               be
               raised
               for
               the
               promoting
               of
               the
               Catholick
               Interest
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               assure
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               that
               he
               was
               going
               down
               into
               Staffordshire
               ,
               and
               there
               he
               did
               not
               question
               but
               he
               should
               have
               a
               good
               account
               how
               the
               Catholicks
               stood
               affected
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               not
               question
               but
               to
               give
               a
               good
               account
               how
               Affairs
               stood
               in
               
                 Staffordshire
                 ,
                 Shropshire
              
               ,
               and
               Lancashire
               ,
               and
               this
               Commission
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               ,
               as
               neer
               as
               I
               can
               remember
               ,
               to
               be
               Pay-Master-General
               of
               the
               Army
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               among
               other
               Discourses
               with
               my
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               he
               was
               discoursing
               about
               my
               Lord
               Duke
               of
               Norfolk
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Arundel
               his
               Son
               ,
               and
               after
               several
               other
               passages
               ,
               he
               (
               Fenwick
               )
               was
               asking
               of
               him
               how
               my
               Lord
               Arundel
               came
               to
               have
               a
               Jesuit
               in
               his
               House
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               say
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               of
               Peterborough
               ,
               his
               Father
               in
               Law
               ,
               was
               instrumental
               in
               it
               on
               purpose
               to
               oblige
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               ;
               for
               my
               Lord
               Arundel
               ,
               as
               I
               have
               been
               told
               ,
               kept
               Father
               Symonds
               in
               his
               House
               ,
               who
               to
               my
               knowledge
               was
               a
               Jesuit
               .
               But
               ▪
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               came
               to
               Mr.
               Fenwicks
               (
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               )
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Mr.
               Howard
               of
               Effingham
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Were
               you
               at
               Fenwicks
               when
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               came
               to
               his
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Look
               upon
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               is
               that
               the
               same
               Person
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               the
               same
               Gentleman
               that
               came
               there
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Howard
               of
               Effingham
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               And
               he
               took
               the
               Commission
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               did
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               And
               he
               promised
               to
               effect
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               And
               he
               said
               that
               he
               was
               then
               going
               down
               into
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               not
               doubt
               but
               at
               his
               return
               Grove
               should
               do
               the
               business
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               said
               so
               ,
               Fenwick
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
               And
               ,
               says
               Fenwick
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               again
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               ●tis
               fit
               that
               some
               should
               be
               here
               present
               least
               you
               fail
               of
               your
               Expectation
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               .
               'T
               is
               two
               years
               since
               ,
               and
               I
               cannot
               remember
               the
               words
               ,
               but
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               say
               ,
               he
               was
               of
               necessity
               to
               go
               into
               the
               Country
               at
               that
               time
               .
               And
               there
               he
               did
               write
               a
               letter
               to
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               in
               which
               he
               did
               excuse
               himself
               about
               a
               young
               man
               that
               was
               to
               be
               sent
               to
               the
               Jesuits
               Colledge
               ,
               whom
               he
               had
               taken
               care
               of
               another
               way
               .
               And
               he
               desired
               their
               excuse
               ,
               but
               he
               would
               be
               as
               faithful
               to
               them
               as
               any
               body
               for
               all
               that
               .
               And
               the
               same
               hand
               that
               wrote
               that
               letter
               ,
               
               by
               all
               the
               comparing
               I
               could
               make
               in
               my
               thoughts
               ,
               wrote
               all
               the
               other
               Letters
               that
               I
               saw
               at
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               and
               in
               Spain
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               saw
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               Dr.
               Perrotts
               ,
               I
               think
               verily
               it
               was
               in
               June
               or
               July
               (
               78.
               )
               it
               was
               before
               the
               rising
               of
               the
               Parliament
               ,
               that
               sat
               that
               Summer
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               discoursing
               of
               a
               Son
               he
               was
               to
               send
               over
               to
               Lisbon
               ,
               and
               he
               went
               over
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Sir
               
                 John
                 Stafford
              
               .
               And
               after
               this
               Discourse
               was
               over
               they
               fell
               into
               a
               Discourse
               of
               the
               Affairs
               in
               hand
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               was
               mighty
               glad
               there
               was
               so
               good
               a
               Correspondence
               and
               Concord
               ;
               though
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               not
               very
               great
               for
               the
               Jesuits
               have
               an
               irreconcileable
               Quarrel
               with
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Clergy
               .
               But
               my
               Lord
               did
               hope
               that
               their
               fair
               Correspondence
               might
               tend
               highly
               to
               the
               advancing
               the
               Catholick
               Cause
               .
               But
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               one
               thing
               more
               to
               speak
               as
               to
               the
               Discourse
               at
               Fenwicks
               Chamber
               ,
               speaking
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               He
               hath
               deceived
               us
               a
               great
               while
               ,
               and
               we
               can
               bear
               no
               longer
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               said
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               the
               Gentleman
               at
               the
               Bar.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
               At
               Dr.
               Perrotts
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               speak
               of
               a
               passage
               at
               
               Fenwick's
               ,
               which
               I
               had
               forgot
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               is
               all
               I
               can
               remember
               at
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               M.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               give
               an
               Account
               what
               letters
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               sent
               to
               Fenwick
               and
               Ireland
               ,
               to
               pay
               money
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               There
               was
               some
               money
               returned
               ,
               but
               it
               was
               no
               great
               Sum
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               about
               private
               business
               ;
               Mr.
               Morgan
               was
               to
               receive
               it
               ;
               I
               chanced
               to
               have
               the
               money
               in
               my
               own
               keeping
               ;
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               gave
               it
               me
               to
               pay
               to
               Mr.
               Morgan
               ,
               and
               the
               letter
               in
               which
               the
               Sum
               was
               mentioned
               did
               give
               them
               an
               Account
               (
               for
               it
               was
               out
               of
               Staffordshire
               )
               that
               he
               found
               things
               stand
               in
               a
               very
               good
               state
               there
               ;
               but
               I
               being
               not
               within
               ,
               Mr.
               Morgan
               called
               on
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               for
               the
               money
               ,
               which
               I
               returned
               to
               him
               when
               he
               had
               paid
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               in
               the
               first
               place
               desire
               to
               know
               where
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               lived
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               did
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               live
               when
               you
               saw
               my
               Lord
               at
               his
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               the
               Commission
               delivered
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               His
               Lordship
               ,
               I
               suppose
               ,
               knows
               very
               well
               where
               he
               lived
               ,
               he
               lived
               in
               Drury-lane
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               submit
               to
               any
               thing
               ,
               if
               I
               ever
               saw
               the
               man
               or
               heard
               of
               him
               till
               the
               Discovery
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               He
               came
               to
               him
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Thompson
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               does
               not
               observe
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               says
               that
               you
               never
               knew
               any
               Fenwick
               ,
               but
               your
               Lordship
               knew
               one
               Thompson
               ,
               and
               that
               Thompson
               was
               Fenwick
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               know
               one
               Thompson
               ,
               but
               that
               Thompson
               I
               knew
               ,
               was
               an
               ●nglish
               Merchant
               in
               Brussels
               ,
               and
               not
               a
               Jesuit
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               can't
               say
               what
               my
               Lord
               knows
               ,
               that
               he
               knew
               Fenwick
               to
               be
               a
               Jesuit
               ,
               but
               he
               knew
               one
               Thompson
               that
               was
               Fenwick
               the
               Jesuit
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               the
               Name
               till
               this
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               But
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               will
               give
               you
               a
               reason
               why
               I
               believe
               he
               knew
               him
               to
               be
               a
               Jesuit
               ,
               because
               the
               Society
               was
               very
               often
               in
               their
               mouths
               in
               their
               Discourses
               ,
               which
               gives
               me
               a
               ground
               to
               believe
               he
               knew
               him
               to
               be
               what
               he
               was
               ;
               but
               my
               Lord
               ,
               he
               took
               his
               Commission
               from
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               be
               asked
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Good
               my
               Lord
               raise
               your
               voice
               ,
               for
               I
               am
               come
               half
               way
               to
               hear
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               my
               Lords
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               Dr.
               Oats
               hath
               not
               said
               several
               times
               since
               I
               was
               first
               imprisoned
               ,
               that
               he
               never
               saw
               me
               in
               his
               life
               .
               I
               think
               I
               was
               imprisoned
               the
               21.
               of
               October
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               said
               any
               such
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               willingly
               dye
               if
               ever
               I
               saw
               this
               Doctor
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               excuse
               my
               Lord
               for
               that
               ,
               for
               I
               was
               in
               another
               habit
               ,
               and
               I
               went
               by
               another
               Name
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               do
               remember
               I
               came
               in
               another
               habit
               to
               make
               the
               first
               Discovery
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               never
               saw
               his
               face
               ,
               nor
               know
               him
               ,
               nor
               Fenwick
               ,
               or
               Thompson
               ,
               otherwise
               than
               one
               Thompson
               ,
               a
               Merchant
               at
               Brussels
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               one
               thing
               more
               to
               say
               of
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ;
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               went
               into
               France
               ,
               I
               can't
               say
               the
               year
               ,
               but
               I
               believe
               it
               is
               within
               the
               term
               of
               6
               or
               7.
               but
               he
               went
               over
               to
               France
               ,
               and
               it
               did
               appear
               by
               letters
               from
               him
               ,
               that
               Seignior
               Con
               was
               made
               choice
               of
               to
               heal
               the
               Difference
               between
               the
               Regulars
               and
               the
               Seculars
               ,
               and
               Seignior
               Con
               did
               come
               over
               in
               the
               year
               (
               76.
               )
               and
               there
               did
               make
               a
               kind
               of
               a
               peace
               among
               them
               ,
               which
               lasted
               whilst
               Con
               stayed
               here
               ,
               and
               Con
               did
               bring
               over
               Messages
               ,
               to
               which
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               (
               if
               he
               tells
               any
               truth
               in
               his
               own
               letter
               )
               did
               return
               answers
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               For
               the
               present
               all
               I
               say
               to
               it
               is
               this
               ,
               I
               never
               writ
               any
               one
               letter
               this
               25
               years
               ,
               nor
               had
               any
               correspondence
               with
               any
               Jesuit
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordship
               make
               me
               capable
               of
               serving
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               by
               letting
               me
               hear
               what
               you
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               have
               a
               great
               Cold
               ,
               and
               can
               speak
               no
               louder
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               this
               Witness
               no
               more
               Questions
               at
               present
               ;
               but
               I
               say
               I
               never
               writ
               any
               letters
               to
               any
               Priest
               this
               25
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               my
               Lord
               hath
               done
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               another
               Witness
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               Mr.
               
                 Edward
                 Turbervile
              
               .
            
             
               (
               Who
               was
               sworn
               .
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Look
               upon
               the
               Prisoner
               .
               Do
               you
               know
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Raise
               your
               voice
               ,
               and
               speak
               deliberately
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Give
               an
               account
               of
               your
               knowledge
               ,
               and
               use
               your
               own
               method
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               1675.
               
               I
               was
               perswaded
               by
               my
               Lady
               Powis
               ,
               and
               one
               Morgan
               that
               was
               Confessor
               to
               the
               Family
               ,
               to
               go
               to
               Doway
               ,
               in
               order
               to
               take
               upon
               me
               the
               Fryars
               Habit.
               When
               I
               came
               there
               ,
               instead
               of
               Religion
               ,
               I
               found
               nothing
               but
               Hypocrisie
               and
               Villainy
               among
               them
               ,
               and
               quickly
               grew
               weary
               of
               staying
               there
               ,
               and
               with
               much
               difficulty
               I
               escaped
               thence
               to
               go
               for
               England
               ;
               when
               I
               came
               into
               England
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               think
               that
               my
               Friends
               would
               look
               unkindly
               upon
               me
               ,
               because
               I
               refused
               to
               live
               in
               that
               way
               that
               they
               proposed
               to
               me
               to
               live
               in
               .
               I
               used
               all
               the
               means
               I
               could
               to
               have
               them
               reconciled
               ,
               and
               made
               applications
               to
               them
               ,
               that
               since
               I
               could
               not
               bear
               with
               the
               life
               they
               would
               have
               had
               me
               lived
               in
               ,
               they
               would
               contrive
               some
               way
               for
               me
               ,
               being
               a
               younger
               Brother
               ,
               that
               I
               might
               live
               in
               the
               world
               ;
               but
               they
               were
               so
               averse
               and
               inveterate
               against
               me
               ,
               that
               they
               told
               me
               ,
               instead
               of
               doing
               any
               thing
               for
               me
               ,
               they
               would
               do
               me
               all
               the
               mischief
               and
               prejudice
               they
               could
               ;
               and
               having
               lived
               all
               my
               time
               among
               them
               ,
               I
               thought
               the
               World
               would
               receive
               a
               Character
               of
               me
               from
               them
               who
               were
               my
               Relations
               ,
               as
               they
               would
               please
               to
               represent
               it
               ;
               so
               having
               no
               hopes
               in
               England
               I
               took
               a
               resolution
               to
               go
               into
               France
               ,
               where
               I
               had
               a
               Brother
               that
               was
               a
               Benedictine
               Monk
               ,
               and
               I
               hoped
               that
               he
               being
               in
               good
               repute
               amongst
               them
               ,
               might
               be
               able
               to
               do
               me
               some
               service
               there
               .
               When
               I
               came
               to
               Paris
               ,
               my
               Brother
               used
               all
               the
               endeavours
               imaginable
               to
               get
               me
               to
               be
               of
               that
               Order
               ;
               but
               I
               having
               so
               ill
               a
               conceit
               and
               opinion
               of
               the
               Order
               that
               I
               was
               in
               before
               ,
               and
               thinking
               all
               the
               rest
               were
               the
               same
               ,
               I
               was
               unwilling
               at
               all
               to
               enter
               into
               it
               .
               And
               after
               I
               had
               staid
               there
               a
               while
               I
               resolved
               to
               come
               over
               into
               England
               .
               My
               Brother
               used
               all
               the
               means
               he
               could
               for
               my
               accommodation
               ,
               and
               recommended
               me
               to
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               who
               lodged
               then
               at
               a
               corner
               house
               in
               a
               Street
               which
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               bears
               the
               name
               of
               
                 La
                 Rue
                 de
                 Beaufort
              
               ,
               where
               I
               was
               several
               times
               with
               him
               in
               order
               to
               come
               over
               with
               him
               in
               the
               Yaught
               for
               England
               .
               After
               I
               had
               been
               there
               for
               a
               fortnight
               with
               this
               Lord
               ,
               he
               understanding
               my
               condition
               ,
               by
               my
               Brother
               ,
               and
               by
               the
               other
               Fathers
               of
               that
               Convent
               ,
               and
               imagining
               I
               was
               a
               fit
               instrument
               to
               be
               employed
               on
               such
               an
               occasion
               ,
               propos'd
               to
               me
               a
               way
               whereby
               ,
               as
               he
               said
               ,
               I
               might
               not
               only
               retrieve
               my
               Reputation
               with
               my
               Relations
               ,
               but
               also
               make
               my self
               a
               very
               happy
               man
               ;
               and
               after
               having
               exacted
               from
               me
               all
               the
               obligations
               of
               secresie
               which
               I
               could
               give
               him
               ,
               he
               at
               length
               told
               me
               in
               direct
               terms
               ,
               it
               was
               to
               take
               away
               the
               life
               of
               the
               King
               of
               England
               ,
               who
               was
               an
               Heretick
               ,
               and
               consequently
               a
               Rebel
               against
               God
               Almighty
               .
               I
               looked
               upon
               it
               as
               an
               extraordinary
               attempt
               ,
               and
               desired
               time
               to
               consider
               of
               it
               before
               I
               would
               undertake
               it
               .
               And
               I
               gave
               him
               this
               answer
               ,
               I
               would
               give
               him
               my
               resolution
               at
               Diep
               ,
               where
               we
               were
               to
               go
               on
               board
               for
               England
               .
               And
               when
               I
               came
               to
               take
               my
               leave
               of
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               he
               was
               sitting
               upon
               a
               bench
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               troubled
               with
               the
               Gout
               in
               his
               foot
               at
               that
               time
               .
               And
               he
               told
               me
               he
               had
               some
               business
               to
               go
               to
               Versailles
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               should
               not
               be
               in
               six
               or
               seven
               days
               at
               Diep
               ,
               where
               I
               was
               to
               wait
               for
               him
               .
               After
               a
               while
               I
               received
               a
               letter
               at
               Diep
               from
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               wherein
               he
               writ
               word
               ,
               That
               he
               had
               altered
               his
               resolution
               ,
               
               and
               would
               go
               by
               the
               way
               of
               Calice
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               should
               hasten
               to
               wait
               on
               his
               Lordship
               at
               London
               .
               I
               have
               one
               thing
               more
               to
               observe
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               when
               I
               got
               passage
               from
               Diep
               ,
               in
               a
               Fisher-boat
               for
               
                 England
                 ,
                 I
              
               never
               came
               neer
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               because
               being
               not
               willing
               to
               undertake
               his
               proposal
               ,
               I
               thought
               my self
               not
               safe
               ,
               even
               from
               my
               own
               Relations
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               made
               my
               applications
               to
               the
               Duke
               of
               Monmouth
               ,
               and
               his
               Grace
               was
               pleased
               by
               letter
               to
               recommend
               me
               into
               the
               French
               service
               ,
               and
               by
               that
               means
               I
               avoided
               his
               Lordships
               further
               importunity
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               say
               my
               Lord
               did
               propose
               to
               you
               the
               Killing
               of
               the
               King
               ;
               did
               he
               plainly
               make
               the
               proposal
               in
               direct
               terms
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               did
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               did
               he
               offer
               you
               to
               do
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Nothing
               ,
               for
               I
               would
               not
               accept
               of
               it
               .
               I
               told
               him
               it
               was
               a
               matter
               of
               great
               concernment
               ,
               and
               I
               ought
               to
               consider
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               I
               took
               time
               to
               think
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               would
               give
               him
               my
               answer
               at
               Diep
               ,
               which
               he
               came
               not
               to
               ;
               and
               so
               there
               was
               an
               end
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               ingagements
               of
               secresie
               had
               you
               given
               my
               Lord
               before
               he
               opened
               himself
               so
               plainly
               to
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               gave
               my
               Lord
               my
               word
               and
               my
               promise
               that
               I
               would
               not
               discover
               it
               to
               any
               person
               directly
               nor
               indirectly
               ;
               my
               Lord
               had
               nothing
               of
               an
               Oath
               from
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               more
               Questions
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               never
               saw
               the
               man
               before
               in
               my
               life
               .
               I
               will
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               since
               he
               hath
               been
               pleased
               to
               swear
               against
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               had
               no
               reason
               but
               the
               truth
               to
               do
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               never
               received
               any
               injury
               from
               his
               Lordship
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               seems
               I
               had
               ill
               luck
               to
               choose
               this
               man
               for
               an
               attempt
               to
               Kill
               the
               King
               ,
               who
               was
               such
               a
               Coward
               he
               ran
               away
               from
               his
               Colours
               .
               and
               was
               to
               have
               been
               shot
               to
               death
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Ask
               the
               Duke
               of
               Monmouth
               what
               Character
               he
               received
               of
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               in
               the
               year
               ,
               (
               75.
               )
               he
               went
               from
               London
               to
               Doway
               ,
               and
               staid
               some
               time
               there
               ,
               and
               then
               came
               back
               to
               England
               .
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               to
               ask
               him
               what
               time
               he
               went
               back
               to
               Paris
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               time
               was
               it
               that
               you
               went
               back
               to
               Paris
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               cannot
               be
               punctual
               to
               a
               fortnight
               ,
               but
               I
               believe
               it
               was
               the
               beginning
               of
               June
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               (
               75.
               )
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               know
               who
               recommended
               him
               to
               me
               to
               go
               over
               with
               me
               into
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               recommended
               you
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               to
               go
               into
               England
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               Father
               Sherborn
               who
               was
               then
               Prior
               of
               the
               Benedictine
               Monks
               in
               Paris
               ,
               and
               Father
               Nelson
               Sub-prior
               of
               those
               Monks
               ,
               and
               my
               Brother
               who
               is
               a
               Monk
               in
               the
               same
               Convent
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               ,
               that
               there
               were
               three
               persons
               that
               recommended
               him
               to
               your
               Lordship
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               saw
               them
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               that
               says
               I
               was
               a
               Coward
               ,
               and
               run
               away
               from
               my
               Colours
               ,
               will
               say
               any
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               not
               only
               say
               it
               ,
               but
               will
               prove
               it
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Do
               it
               if
               you
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               in
               the
               beginning
               of
               June
               (
               75.
               )
               he
               went
               into
               
                 France
                 .
                 I
              
               desire
               to
               know
               of
               him
               when
               it
               was
               he
               spoke
               to
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               In
               November
               75.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               in
               November
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               about
               the
               beginning
               of
               November
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               where
               was
               it
               he
               spoke
               to
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Turbervile
               ,
               where
               was
               it
               you
               spoke
               to
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               In
               Paris
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whereabouts
               in
               Paris
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               the
               Corner-House
               of
               the
               Street
               ,
               which
               Street
               faces
               Luxenburgh
               House
               ,
               the
               Prince
               of
               Conde
               lodges
               on
               the
               right
               hand
               in
               that
               Street
               ,
               I
               take
               it
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               and
               you
               lodged
               at
               the
               Corner-House
               ,
               I
               think
               the
               Name
               of
               the
               Street
               was
               
                 La
                 Rue
                 de
                 Beaufort
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Which
               if
               the
               Prince
               of
               Conde
               did
               —
               I
               will
               say
               no
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               be
               upon
               my
               Oath
               in
               such
               cases
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               he
               does
               ,
               I
               take
               it
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               ,
               he
               was
               with
               me
               a
               fortnight
               ,
               what
               does
               he
               mean
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               several
               times
               in
               the
               space
               of
               a
               fortnight
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               who
               brought
               him
               to
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Father
               Sherborn
               ,
               Father
               Nelson
               ,
               and
               my
               Brother
               Father
               
                 Anthony
                 Turbervile
              
               ;
               and
               sometimes
               I
               came
               alone
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               ,
               those
               three
               Fathers
               recommended
               him
               to
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               and
               he
               came
               himself
               several
               times
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               is
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               did
               he
               come
               directly
               to
               my
               Chamber
               ,
               or
               where
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Sometimes
               to
               my
               Lords
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               at
               other
               times
               I
               met
               him
               in
               a
               lower
               Room
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               concerns
               me
               much
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               though
               they
               be
               foolish
               Questions
               ,
               yet
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               pardon
               me
               if
               I
               ask
               them
               .
               Where
               was
               this
               Discourse
               about
               killing
               the
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               this
               Discourse
               in
               the
               Chamber
               ,
               or
               in
               the
               lower
               Room
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               lower
               Room
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               ,
               I
               think
               ,
               that
               he
               hath
               been
               in
               my
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               been
               in
               my
               Lords
               Chamber
               as
               well
               as
               in
               the
               lower
               Room
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               What
               kind
               of
               Room
               is
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               remember
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               dare
               sware
               you
               can't
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               can't
               tell
               the
               particulars
               ;
               what
               Stools
               and
               Chairs
               were
               in
               the
               Room
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               at
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               ,
               How
               long
               have
               you
               been
               in
               England
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               answer
               punctually
               ;
               I
               have
               been
               in
               England
               near
               four
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               came
               it
               to
               pass
               that
               you
               never
               discovered
               this
               sooner
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               I
               had
               no
               Faith
               to
               believe
               that
               I
               should
               be
               safe
               if
               I
               did
               it
               ,
               but
               my
               brains
               might
               be
               knocked
               out
               ;
               and
               that
               kept
               me
               off
               from
               doing
               that
               service
               which
               I
               might
               be
               better
               able
               to
               do
               if
               I
               did
               deser
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               came
               you
               to
               discover
               it
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               The
               Kings
               Proclamation
               ,
               and
               some
               Friends
               that
               have
               perswaded
               me
               I
               may
               do
               it
               with
               safety
               ;
               who
               will
               give
               your
               Lordships
               an
               account
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               attend
               when
               I
               make
               my
               defence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               shall
               .
               But
               I
               am
               sorry
               that
               his
               Lordship
               hath
               so
               ill
               a
               memory
               as
               to
               what
               passed
               between
               us
               .
               I
               shall
               be
               very
               unwilling
               to
               do
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               or
               any
               body
               else
               ,
               any
               injury
               ,
               but
               I
               must
               tell
               the
               truth
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               shall
               call
               no
               more
               Witnesses
               ,
               unless
               my
               Lord
               ,
               the
               Prisoner
               ,
               give
               us
               an
               occasion
               .
               If
               he
               shall
               make
               any
               Objections
               to
               any
               of
               our
               Witnesses
               ,
               I
               hope
               we
               shall
               have
               liberty
               to
               call
               Witnesses
               to
               support
               them
               ;
               but
               we
               give
               over
               at
               present
               ,
               and
               expect
               his
               Lordships
               Answer
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               May
               it
               please
               your
               Lorships
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               before
               I
               say
               any
               thing
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               know
               if
               they
               have
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               to
               examine
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               They
               say
               they
               will
               call
               no
               more
               Evidence
               unless
               your
               Lordships
               Answer
               do
               give
               them
               occasion
               to
               fortify
               their
               Witnesses
               you
               except
               against
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               is
               now
               about
               two
               years
               that
               I
               have
               had
               the
               misfortune
               to
               be
               accused
               of
               this
               detestable
               Treason
               .
               I
               have
               been
               several
               times
               in
               those
               two
               years
               a
               close
               prisoner
               ,
               that
               my
               Wife
               and
               Children
               were
               denyed
               to
               come
               neer
               me
               ;
               and
               hardly
               a
               Servant
               permitted
               to
               ask
               how
               I
               did
               ,
               but
               at
               the
               door
               of
               my
               Prison
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               This
               was
               a
               great
               and
               an
               heavy
               affliction
               to
               me
               ;
               and
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               so
               great
               an
               affliction
               to
               me
               ,
               that
               truly
               I
               did
               not
               know
               how
               to
               bear
               it
               .
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               I
               had
               that
               comfort
               ,
               that
               I
               did
               hope
               I
               should
               soon
               come
               to
               my
               Tryal
               ,
               and
               before
               your
               Lordships
               make
               my
               innocency
               appear
               .
               In
               order
               to
               which
               ,
               I
               did
               all
               I
               could
               ,
               having
               heard
               this
               Hall
               was
               provided
               for
               it
               ;
               and
               I
               did
               expect
               in
               a
               very
               few
               days
               to
               clear
               my self
               before
               your
               Lordships
               and
               all
               the
               World.
               When
               I
               had
               settled
               my
               mind
               ,
               and
               did
               not
               foresee
               any
               greater
               affliction
               that
               could
               befall
               me
               ,
               I
               had
               on
               the
               sudden
               by
               some
               of
               my
               friends
               a
               sad
               Message
               sent
               me
               ,
               That
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               had
               impeached
               me
               of
               High
               Treason
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               looked
               upon
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               then
               (
               as
               I
               do
               now
               )
               as
               the
               great
               Representative
               Body
               of
               the
               Commons
               of
               England
               ;
               and
               I
               confess
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               to
               be
               accused
               by
               them
               was
               a
               load
               ,
               especially
               being
               added
               to
               what
               lay
               before
               upon
               me
               ,
               more
               especially
               to
               my
               ●eak
               Body
               ,
               and
               weaker
               mind
               ,
               that
               I
               was
               so
               afflicted
               with
               it
               ,
               and
               have
               so
               continued
               ,
               that
               I
               am
               scarce
               able
               to
               bear
               up
               under
               it
               .
               For
               I
               look
               upon
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               as
               the
               great
               and
               worthy
               Patriots
               of
               this
               Kingdom
               :
               I
               ever
               held
               them
               so
               ,
               and
               I
               hold
               them
               so
               still
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               These
               things
               being
               such
               great
               afflictions
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               some
               other
               accidents
               ,
               which
               I
               shall
               not
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               the
               telling
               you
               of
               ,
               have
               so
               much
               disordered
               my
               sense
               and
               reason
               (
               which
               before
               was
               little
               )
               that
               I
               scarce
               know
               how
               to
               clear
               my self
               to
               your
               ●ordships
               ,
               as
               I
               ought
               to
               do
               ;
               or
               which
               way
               to
               go
               about
               the
               doing
               of
               it
               :
               therefore
               I
               do
               with
               all
               humility
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               if
               I
               say
               any
               thing
               that
               may
               give
               an
               offence
               ,
               or
               urge
               that
               which
               may
               not
               be
               to
               the
               purpose
               :
               All
               which
               I
               desire
               you
               would
               be
               pleased
               to
               attribute
               to
               the
               true
               Cause
               ,
               my
               want
               of
               understanding
               ,
               not
               of
               innocency
               ,
               or
               a
               desire
               to
               make
               it
               appear
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               These
               Gentlemen
               the
               Managers
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               who
               are
               great
               and
               able
               men
               ,
               some
               I
               am
               sure
               ▪
               if
               not
               all
               of
               them
               ,
               very
               well
               read
               ,
               and
               have
               understanding
               in
               the
               Law
               ,
               have
               set
               forth
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Treason
               in
               an
               horrid
               shape
               ;
               but
               I
               confe●s
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               they
               had
               made
               it
               never
               so
               much
               worse
               ,
               it
               cannot
               be
               so
               horrid
               as
               I
               have
               often
               fancied
               it
               my self
               :
               for
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               ,
               and
               did
               ever
               hold
               Treason
               to
               be
               the
               greatest
               sin
               in
               the
               World
               ,
               and
               I
               cannot
               use
               words
               enough
               to
               express
               it
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               clear
               my self
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               I
               shall
               give
               you
               one
               Notion
               of
               it
               which
               I
               heard
               at
               your
               Lordships
               Bar
               some
               years
               ago
               ,
               where
               you
               were
               pleased
               to
               here
               several
               people
               of
               several
               perswasions
               give
               you
               some
               reason
               
               why
               Liberty
               of
               Conscience
               should
               be
               allowed
               them
               .
               And
               I
               remember
               one
               of
               them
               ,
               an
               Anabapti●t
               ,
               I
               think
               ,
               did
               tell
               you
               ,
               that
               they
               held
               Treason
               to
               be
               the
               sin
               of
               Witchcraft
               ,
               and
               so
               do
               ●
               .
               And
               next
               to
               Treason
               I
               hold
               Murder
               to
               be
               the
               worst
               sin
               .
               But
               the
               Murder
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               I
               looked
               upon
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               above
               all
               others
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               not
               to
               be
               expressed
               by
               words
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               heard
               very
               much
               of
               a
               thing
               that
               was
               named
               by
               these
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               and
               that
               very
               properly
               too
               ,
               to
               wit
               ,
               of
               the
               Gun-powder
               Treason
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               born
               then
               ,
               but
               some
               years
               after
               I
               heard
               very
               much
               Discourse
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               very
               various
               Reports
               ;
               and
               I
               made
               a
               particular
               inquiry
               ,
               perhaps
               more
               than
               any
               one
               person
               did
               else
               ▪
               both
               of
               my
               Father
               who
               was
               a●ive
               then
               ,
               and
               my
               Uncle
               and
               others
               ;
               and
               I
               am
               satisfied
               ,
               and
               do
               clearly
               believe
               ,
               by
               the
               Evidence
               I
               have
               received
               ,
               That
               that
               thing
               called
               the
               Gun-powder
               Treason
               ,
               was
               a
               wicked
               and
               horrid
               Design
               (
               among
               the
               rest
               )
               of
               some
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               the
               malice
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               or
               the
               Wit
               of
               man
               ,
               cannot
               offer
               an
               excuse
               for
               it
               ,
               it
               was
               so
               execrable
               a
               thing
               .
               Besides
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               acquainted
               with
               one
               of
               them
               that
               was
               concerned
               in
               it
               ,
               who
               had
               his
               pardon
               ,
               and
               lived
               many
               years
               after
               ,
               I
               discoursed
               with
               him
               about
               it
               ,
               and
               he
               confessed
               it
               ,
               and
               said
               ,
               he
               was
               sorry
               for
               it
               then
               ;
               and
               I
               here
               declare
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               I
               never
               heard
               any
               one
               of
               the
               Chur●h
               of
               Rome
               speak
               a
               good
               word
               of
               it
               :
               it
               was
               so
               horrid
               a
               thing
               that
               it
               cannot
               be
               expressed
               nor
               excused
               .
               And
               God
               Almighty
               shewed
               his
               Judgments
               upon
               them
               for
               their
               wickedness
               ;
               for
               hardly
               any
               of
               the
               Persons
               or
               their
               Posterity
               are
               left
               that
               were
               conc●rned
               in
               it
               ;
               and
               even
               a
               very
               great
               Family
               too
               ,
               that
               had
               collaterally
               something
               to
               do
               in
               it
               ,
               is
               in
               the
               Male
               line
               extinct
               totally
               ;
               and
               I
               do
               think
               God
               Almighty
               always
               shews
               his
               Judgments
               upon
               such
               vile
               Actions
               .
               And
               I
               have
               been
               told
               ,
               all
               those
               persons
               that
               were
               engaged
               in
               this
               wicked
               Act
               ,
               were
               all
               heartily
               sorry
               for
               it
               ,
               and
               repented
               of
               it
               before
               they
               died
               ,
               without
               which
               I
               am
               sure
               there
               is
               no
               Salvation
               .
               And
               therefore
               I
               think
               it
               was
               not
               the
               Interest
               of
               Religion
               ,
               but
               a
               private
               Interest
               put
               them
               upon
               it
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               As
               to
               the
               Doctrine
               of
               King-killing
               ,
               and
               Absolving
               persons
               from
               their
               Allegiance
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               does
               not
               hold
               it
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               it
               did
               hold
               it
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               it
               does
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               not
               ,
               I
               say
               not
               one
               thing
               or
               other
               ,
               but
               my
               Lords
               ,
               there
               was
               an
               English
               Colledge
               of
               Priests
               at
               Rhemes
               ,
               that
               translated
               the
               Bible
               ,
               and
               printed
               it
               with
               Authority
               according
               to
               their
               Translation
               ,
               and
               in
               their
               Annotations
               upon
               the
               fourteenth
               Chapter
               of
               the
               Epistle
               to
               the
               Romans
               ,
               they
               do
               declare
               their
               dislike
               and
               detestation
               of
               that
               Opinion
               .
               They
               say
               all
               Subjects
               ought
               to
               obey
               their
               Kings
               as
               the
               〈◊〉
               mitive
               Christians
               did
               the
               Heathen
               Princes
               of
               the
               Empire
               ;
               and
               the
               learned
               Doctors
               of
               the
               Colledge
               of
               Sorbonne
               ,
               did
               upon
               an
               occasion
               administred
               to
               them
               about
               that
               Opinion
               ,
               declare
               the
               mistakes
               that
               were
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               owned
               
               it
               to
               be
               a
               damnable
               Principle
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               an
               Authentical
               Copy
               of
               that
               Decree
               of
               the
               Sorbonists
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               here
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               can't
               tell
               —
               Yes
               ,
               here
               it
               is
               ,
               which
               does
               declare
               that
               ,
               a
               damnable
               Position
               ;
               and
               there
               is
               lately
               come
               out
               a
               Book
               ,
               written
               by
               a
               Priest
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               tryed
               for
               his
               life
               for
               being
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               but
               acquitted
               of
               that
               ,
               in
               which
               he
               says
               ,
               that
               that
               Opinion
               of
               killing
               Kings
               is
               damnable
               and
               herettical
               ,
               and
               declared
               so
               by
               the
               Council
               of
               Trent
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               This
               gives
               me
               occasion
               to
               believe
               that
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               holds
               it
               not
               .
               I
               do
               not
               say
               that
               it
               does
               not
               ,
               but
               some
               particular
               persons
               do
               abhor
               it
               which
               are
               great
               in
               that
               Church
               ,
               and
               which
               weighs
               far
               with
               me
               ;
               but
               that
               which
               further
               most
               of
               all
               confirms
               me
               in
               my
               ill
               Opinion
               of
               it
               ,
               is
               the
               words
               of
               our
               Saviour
               ,
               when
               not
               only
               he
               commands
               us
               to
               give
               unto
               Caesar
               the
               things
               that
               are
               Caesars
               ,
               but
               asserts
               our
               Obedience
               to
               our
               Governours
               in
               many
               other
               passages
               of
               the
               Holy
               Scripture
               ;
               and
               what
               I
               find
               there
               ,
               the
               whole
               World
               is
               not
               able
               to
               alter
               my
               Opinion
               of
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               Almighty
               God
               ,
               That
               I
               do
               extreamly
               admire
               when
               I
               hear
               of
               any
               thing
               like
               it
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               read
               with
               great
               horror
               what
               I
               found
               the
               other
               day
               in
               the
               Gazette
               ,
               of
               some
               imprudent
               people
               in
               Scotland
               ,
               and
               of
               their
               wicked
               Principles
               and
               Practices
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               Almighty
               God
               ,
               who
               knows
               and
               sees
               all
               things
               ,
               and
               of
               his
               Angels
               ,
               which
               are
               continually
               about
               us
               ,
               and
               of
               your
               Lordships
               who
               are
               my
               Peers
               and
               Judges
               ,
               solemnly
               profess
               and
               declare
               ,
               that
               I
               hate
               and
               detest
               any
               such
               Opinion
               ,
               as
               I
               do
               damnation
               to
               my self
               .
               And
               I
               cannot
               be
               more
               desirous
               of
               Salvation
               to
               my self
               ,
               than
               I
               am
               cordial
               in
               hating
               this
               Opinion
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               know
               no
               person
               upon
               Earth
               ,
               nor
               all
               the
               persons
               in
               the
               world
               put
               together
               ,
               nor
               all
               the
               Power
               they
               have
               ,
               can
               in
               the
               least
               absolve
               me
               of
               my
               Allegigiance
               .
               And
               I
               do
               acknowledge
               the
               King
               is
               my
               Soveraign
               ,
               and
               I
               ought
               to
               obey
               him
               as
               far
               as
               the
               Law
               of
               the
               Land
               obliges
               any
               Subject
               of
               his
               to
               obey
               him
               ;
               whether
               I
               have
               taken
               the
               Oath
               of
               Allegiance
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               to
               be
               my
               Witnesses
               ;
               and
               if
               I
               did
               not
               take
               it
               a
               thousand
               times
               for
               my
               Allegiance
               to
               the
               King
               ,
               if
               required
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               should
               deserve
               a
               thousand
               Deaths
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               Torments
               in
               the
               world
               for
               refusing
               it
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               These
               Gentlemen
               here
               did
               begin
               their
               Charge
               ,
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 Francis
                 Winnington
              
               ,
               with
               telling
               your
               Lordships
               there
               was
               an
               horrid
               Design
               to
               murder
               the
               King
               ,
               to
               alter
               the
               Government
               ,
               and
               introduce
               the
               Popish
               Religon
               .
               This
               they
               say
               was
               ingaged
               in
               by
               the
               Roman
               Catholicks
               ,
               that
               all
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               were
               the
               Contrivers
               of
               it
               ;
               for
               they
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               the
               whole
               Body
               hath
               been
               ingaged
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               they
               have
               given
               you
               many
               Proofs
               by
               Witnesses
               examined
               the
               first
               day
               ,
               of
               a
               General
               Plot
               ;
               what
               Credit
               you
               will
               give
               to
               them
               I
               leave
               to
               your
               Lordships
               in
               the
               end
               of
               the
               Case
               ,
               but
               still
               they
               said
               it
               
               was
               the
               Body
               of
               the
               Roman
               Catholicks
               in
               England
               ,
               or
               the
               Papists
               ,
               or
               what
               they
               call
               them
               ,
               that
               were
               the
               Plotters
               in
               this
               Design
               .
               But
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               how
               am
               I
               concerned
               in
               it
               ?
               for
               I
               must
               say
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               they
               have
               not
               offered
               one
               proof
               that
               I
               am
               of
               that
               Religion
               .
               So
               that
               though
               any
               of
               you
               should
               have
               seen
               me
               at
               the
               Exercises
               of
               that
               Religion
               ,
               or
               otherwise
               know
               it
               of
               your selves
               ,
               yet
               if
               there
               be
               no
               Proof
               judicially
               before
               you
               ,
               you
               are
               not
               to
               take
               notice
               of
               it
               .
               I
               have
               heard
               if
               a
               man
               be
               accused
               of
               a
               Crime
               ,
               and
               be
               to
               be
               tryed
               ,
               and
               no
               Evidence
               come
               in
               ,
               if
               every
               man
               of
               the
               Jury
               were
               sure
               that
               the
               Fact
               was
               done
               ,
               yet
               they
               must
               go
               upon
               the
               Evidence
               produced
               to
               them
               ,
               and
               not
               upon
               their
               own
               knowledge
               .
               So
               then
               no
               Evidence
               being
               produced
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               about
               my
               being
               a
               Papist
               ,
               you
               are
               not
               to
               take
               me
               for
               such
               an
               one
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               I
               were
               of
               that
               Church
               ,
               and
               that
               were
               never
               so
               well
               proved
               too
               ,
               I
               hope
               I
               have
               an
               advantage
               in
               it
               ,
               that
               I
               have
               kept
               my self
               from
               being
               poysoned
               with
               so
               wicked
               a
               Principle
               ,
               or
               ingaged
               with
               the
               rest
               in
               so
               ill
               a
               thing
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               here
               accused
               of
               having
               endeavoured
               to
               kill
               the
               King.
               I
               find
               by
               the
               Law
               ,
               upon
               reading
               Sir
               
                 Edward
                 Coke
              
               ,
               since
               my
               Imprisonment
               ,
               That
               all
               Accusations
               of
               Treason
               ought
               to
               be
               accompanied
               with
               Circumstances
               antecedent
               ,
               concomitant
               and
               subsequent
               ;
               but
               I
               conceive
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               there
               is
               no
               tittle
               of
               any
               such
               thing
               proved
               against
               me
               .
               The
               whole
               compass
               of
               my
               life
               from
               my
               infancy
               hath
               been
               clear
               otherwise
               .
               In
               the
               beginning
               of
               the
               late
               unhappy
               times
               ,
               the
               late
               King
               of
               happy
               and
               glorious
               memory
               ,
               did
               me
               the
               honour
               to
               make
               me
               a
               Peer
               ;
               and
               thinking
               that
               my
               presence
               might
               rather
               prejudice
               him
               than
               serve
               him
               ,
               my
               Wife
               and
               I
               settled
               at
               Antwerp
               when
               the
               War
               begun
               ,
               where
               I
               might
               have
               lived
               ,
               though
               obscurely
               ,
               yet
               safely
               ;
               but
               I
               was
               not
               satisfied
               in
               my
               Conscience
               to
               see
               my
               King
               in
               so
               much
               disorder
               ,
               and
               I
               not
               endeavour
               to
               serve
               him
               what
               I
               could
               ,
               to
               free
               him
               from
               his
               troubles
               .
               And
               I
               did
               come
               into
               England
               ,
               and
               served
               his
               Majesty
               faithfully
               and
               loyally
               ,
               as
               long
               as
               he
               lived
               .
               And
               some
               of
               your
               Lordships
               here
               ,
               know
               ,
               whether
               I
               did
               not
               wait
               upon
               the
               now
               King
               in
               his
               Exile
               ,
               from
               which
               he
               was
               happily
               restored
               ,
               which
               shews
               I
               had
               no
               ill
               intention
               then
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hope
               this
               I
               have
               said
               does
               shew
               ,
               that
               my
               life
               hath
               given
               no
               countenance
               to
               this
               Accusation
               ,
               but
               clear
               contrary
               to
               what
               these
               (
               I
               hope
               I
               may
               call
               them
               so
               ,
               and
               doubt
               not
               to
               prove
               them
               so
               )
               perjured
               Villains
               say
               against
               me
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               After
               I
               had
               this
               misfortune
               to
               be
               thus
               accused
               ,
               about
               a
               month
               or
               six
               weeks
               after
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               were
               pleased
               to
               send
               two
               Members
               of
               this
               honourable
               Body
               to
               me
               .
               I
               do
               not
               see
               them
               at
               present
               here
               ,
               to
               examine
               me
               about
               the
               Plot
               ,
               (
               they
               were
               my
               Lord
               of
               Bridgwater
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               of
               Essex
               )
               if
               they
               be
               here
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               them
               what
               I
               did
               say
               .
               These
               two
               ,
               after
               they
               had
               examined
               me
               told
               me
               ,
               they
               did
               believe
               ,
               and
               could
               almost
               assure
               me
               ,
               That
               if
               I
               would
               confess
               my
               Fault
               ,
               and
               let
               them
               know
               the
               particulars
               of
               it
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               would
               intercede
               with
               the
               King
               for
               my
               Pardon
               ;
               but
               I
               then
               ,
               as
               I
               ought
               ,
               asserted
               my
               own
               
               Innocency
               .
               Not
               long
               after
               ,
               the
               King
               out
               of
               his
               Grace
               and
               Goodness
               to
               me
               ,
               sent
               six
               of
               the
               Council
               to
               the
               Tower
               to
               offer
               me
               ,
               That
               though
               I
               was
               never
               so
               guilty
               ,
               yet
               if
               I
               would
               confess
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               my
               Pardon
               .
               I
               did
               then
               consider
               with
               my self
               ,
               I
               could
               not
               imagine
               what
               ground
               there
               was
               to
               believe
               your
               Lordships
               could
               have
               Evidence
               of
               what
               there
               was
               not
               ,
               to
               bring
               me
               in
               Guilty
               ;
               and
               thereupon
               I
               was
               so
               far
               from
               being
               able
               to
               make
               a
               Discovery
               ,
               that
               I
               could
               not
               invent
               any
               thing
               that
               might
               save
               my
               life
               if
               I
               would
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               seven
               days
               in
               the
               Countrey
               after
               I
               heard
               of
               the
               Plot
               ;
               if
               I
               had
               known
               my self
               guilty
               ,
               I
               should
               surely
               have
               run
               away
               .
               As
               I
               came
               to
               London
               ,
               when
               I
               was
               at
               Lichfield
               there
               met
               me
               two
               of
               my
               Lords
               ;
               They
               told
               me
               ,
               and
               so
               did
               a
               Gentleman
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               how
               much
               there
               was
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               which
               if
               I
               had
               had
               an
               hand
               in
               it
               would
               certainly
               make
               me
               fly
               for
               it
               .
               I
               have
               ever
               heard
               when
               a
               man
               is
               accused
               or
               suspected
               of
               a
               Crime
               ,
               Flight
               is
               a
               great
               sign
               of
               Guilt
               ,
               and
               that
               it
               is
               often
               asked
               of
               the
               Jury
               ,
               though
               there
               be
               no
               certain
               positive
               Evidence
               of
               the
               Fact
               ,
               Whether
               a
               man
               fled
               or
               no
               ?
               As
               that
               is
               a
               sign
               of
               Guilt
               ,
               so
               Remaining
               is
               a
               sign
               of
               Innocency
               .
               If
               then
               after
               Notice
               ,
               I
               come
               to
               Town
               ,
               and
               suffer
               my self
               to
               be
               taken
               ,
               if
               after
               Imprisonment
               and
               Accusation
               I
               refuse
               my
               Pardon
               ,
               and
               yet
               had
               been
               Guilty
               ,
               I
               ought
               to
               die
               for
               my
               Folly
               as
               well
               as
               my
               Crime
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               't
               is
               a
               great
               Offence
               to
               commit
               Treason
               ,
               and
               a
               great
               Addition
               to
               continue
               obstinate
               ,
               when
               upon
               Acknowledgment
               a
               man
               can
               save
               his
               life
               ;
               nay
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               I
               should
               have
               refused
               these
               Offers
               ,
               and
               yet
               known
               my self
               Guilty
               ,
               I
               had
               at
               the
               same
               time
               been
               guilty
               of
               one
               of
               the
               greatest
               Sins
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               as
               being
               the
               cause
               of
               my
               own
               Death
               .
               And
               as
               I
               hold
               ,
               next
               to
               Treason
               ,
               Murder
               the
               greatest
               sin
               ,
               so
               I
               hold
               of
               all
               Murders
               Self-murder
               to
               be
               the
               greatest
               :
               nay
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               think
               any
               man
               living
               can
               pardon
               that
               Sin
               of
               Murder
               .
               And
               I
               do
               profess
               to
               your
               Lordships
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               Almighty
               God
               ,
               that
               if
               I
               could
               immediately
               ,
               by
               the
               Death
               of
               this
               impudent
               Fellow
               Dugdale
               ,
               who
               hath
               done
               me
               so
               much
               wrong
               ,
               make
               my self
               the
               greatest
               man
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               that
               is
               or
               ever
               was
               ;
               I
               profess
               before
               God
               I
               would
               not
               ;
               I
               cannot
               say
               my
               Charity
               is
               so
               great
               ,
               but
               that
               I
               should
               be
               glad
               to
               see
               him
               suffer
               those
               Punishments
               the
               Law
               can
               inflict
               upon
               him
               for
               his
               Crimes
               ,
               but
               his
               Death
               I
               would
               not
               have
               .
               Blood
               is
               so
               great
               a
               Crime
               ,
               and
               I
               know
               every
               man
               is
               careful
               of
               giving
               his
               Voice
               in
               the
               Case
               of
               Blood
               ,
               I
               should
               be
               very
               cautious
               my self
               ;
               and
               if
               I
               were
               a
               Judge
               I
               would
               rather
               save
               twenty
               Guilty
               ,
               than
               condemn
               one
               Innocent
               .
               I
               bless
               God
               I
               have
               not
               the
               least
               desire
               of
               the
               Death
               of
               any
               man
               ,
               and
               would
               not
               for
               all
               the
               world
               have
               the
               innocent
               Blood
               of
               all
               the
               word
               lye
               upon
               me
               .
            
             
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               that
               I
               have
               troubled
               you
               thus
               long
               :
               I
               shall
               now
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               ,
               apply
               my self
               to
               my
               particular
               Defence
               .
               I
               do
               ,
               my
               Lords
               before
               I
               can
               go
               on
               to
               it
               ,
               desire
               I
               may
               have
               such
               Depositions
               as
               have
               been
               taken
               
               against
               me
               ;
               and
               the
               liberty
               to
               look
               on
               your
               Journal
               Book
               ,
               when
               I
               have
               occasion
               .
               I
               do
               particularly
               desire
               the
               Depositions
               of
               Oats
               ,
               upon
               which
               I
               was
               committed
               ,
               by
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               ;
               the
               two
               Depositions
               of
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               ,
               taken
               at
               Stafford
               before
               two
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               Mr.
               Lane
               and
               Mr.
               Vernon
               ;
               I
               desire
               the
               Depositions
               taken
               before
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               was
               Mr.
               Warcup
               and
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Poultney
              
               ,
               or
               some
               other
               two
               Justices
               ▪
               which
               was
               made
               by
               Turbervile
               ,
               and
               then
               I
               shall
               compare
               their
               Testimonies
               together
               :
               And
               I
               hope
               shall
               give
               you
               a
               clear
               account
               that
               they
               are
               perjured
               persons
               .
               How
               without
               these
               to
               go
               on
               to
               my
               just
               Defence
               I
               cannot
               well
               tell
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               say
               to
               it
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ,
               you
               hear
               what
               my
               Lord
               prays
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winnington
               .
            
             
               The
               Witnesse
               are
               here
               ,
               and
               have
               been
               heard
               
                 viva
                 voce
              
               .
               As
               we
               cannot
               use
               any
               of
               the
               Depositions
               of
               which
               he
               speaks
               ,
               so
               no
               more
               can
               they
               be
               used
               by
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               If
               I
               understand
               my
               Lord
               aright
               ,
               this
               is
               the
               thing
               he
               desires
               ▪
               says
               he
               ,
               You
               have
               brought
               Witnesses
               against
               me
               
                 viva
                 voce
              
               ,
               they
               have
               been
               examined
               here
               ,
               and
               they
               have
               been
               examined
               elsewhere
               ,
               and
               their
               Depositions
               are
               upon
               Record
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               confront
               what
               they
               have
               said
               here
               ,
               with
               what
               they
               have
               said
               contrary
               in
               other
               places
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               If
               there
               be
               any
               thing
               expressed
               by
               my
               Lord
               ,
               wherein
               they
               have
               contradicted
               themselves
               ,
               and
               produce
               that
               Deposition
               ,
               he
               may
               do
               that
               ;
               but
               to
               desire
               to
               have
               all
               the
               Depositions
               that
               have
               been
               made
               by
               our
               Witnesses
               is
               a
               strange
               request
               .
               When
               there
               is
               occasion
               to
               use
               them
               upon
               any
               particular
               point
               ,
               he
               may
               produce
               them
               if
               he
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Can
               you
               object
               why
               my
               Lord
               should
               not
               have
               Copies
               of
               any
               thing
               that
               is
               upon
               the
               Journal
               ,
               and
               Depositions
               that
               are
               sworn
               before
               a
               Magistrate
               which
               may
               be
               of
               use
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               do
               not
               object
               against
               it
               ;
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               is
               out
               of
               time
               of
               to
               desire
               it
               .
               What
               was
               sworn
               ,
               and
               is
               entred
               in
               your
               Lordships
               Journal
               ,
               was
               sworn
               above
               two
               years
               since
               .
               My
               Lord
               ,
               or
               any
               man
               else
               might
               repair
               to
               them
               ,
               they
               are
               matters
               of
               Record
               ,
               and
               for
               ought
               we
               know
               were
               never
               denyed
               to
               any
               ,
               especially
               if
               they
               desired
               it
               in
               the
               House
               ;
               but
               after
               two
               years
               time
               ,
               and
               after
               three
               weeks
               time
               given
               to
               prepare
               for
               this
               Tryal
               ,
               when
               my
               Lord
               could
               not
               but
               know
               what
               Witnesses
               would
               be
               examined
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               for
               him
               to
               come
               now
               and
               desire
               such
               and
               such
               Depositions
               may
               be
               produced
               ,
               which
               if
               by
               Law
               he
               might
               be
               allowed
               to
               do
               ,
               he
               might
               have
               done
               before
               ,
               is
               to
               no
               other
               purpose
               ,
               under
               favour
               ,
               but
               to
               gain
               time
               ,
               and
               to
               cause
               our
               Evidence
               to
               be
               forgotten
               .
               And
               therefore
               we
               must
               humbly
               pray
               it
               may
               not
               be
               admitted
               :
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               is
               an
               unusual
               thing
               ,
               My
               Lords
               the
               Judges
               are
               neer
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               suppose
               they
               will
               inform
               your
               Lordships
               .
               If
               a
               man
               be
               tryed
               at
               the
               Assizes
               ,
               for
               
               him
               to
               desire
               a
               Coppy
               of
               the
               Informations
               remaining
               in
               Court
               ,
               by
               which
               he
               may
               except
               against
               the
               Witnesses
               ,
               is
               what
               the
               Court
               does
               not
               use
               to
               grant
               :
               But
               if
               your
               Lordships
               proceedings
               vary
               from
               the
               common
               proceedings
               of
               other
               Courts
               ,
               then
               I
               resort
               to
               what
               I
               said
               before
               .
               Whether
               your
               Lordships
               will
               think
               this
               a
               proper
               time
               when
               he
               might
               have
               had
               it
               in
               the
               Parliament
               that
               was
               first
               Dissolved
               ,
               and
               then
               in
               the
               Parliament
               that
               was
               last
               Dissolved
               .
               Now
               to
               desire
               those
               Copies
               at
               this
               time
               ,
               is
               to
               put
               off
               the
               Cause
               ,
               for
               that
               which
               perhaps
               he
               cannot
               be
               furnished
               with
               in
               a
               day
               or
               two
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVin.
               
            
             
               I
               would
               add
               but
               one
               word
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               you
               have
               the
               Learned
               Judges
               near
               you
               ,
               who
               will
               inform
               you
               Whether
               ever
               ,
               when
               a
               man
               was
               accused
               of
               a
               Capital
               Offence
               ,
               and
               the
               Evidence
               against
               him
               had
               been
               fully
               heard
               ,
               by
               the
               Court
               and
               by
               himself
               ,
               he
               was
               admitted
               to
               require
               from
               the
               Prosecutors
               ,
               the
               Copies
               of
               Examinations
               formerly
               taken
               before
               other
               Persons
               ?
               Does
               my
               Lord
               intend
               to
               have
               time
               to
               peruse
               those
               Examinations
               ,
               and
               to
               have
               the
               Copies
               of
               them
               ,
               that
               he
               may
               consult
               in
               private
               with
               his
               Counsel
               to
               find
               out
               Exceptions
               ,
               and
               with
               his
               Witnesses
               to
               make
               them
               good
               ?
               My
               Lords
               ▪
               I
               must
               say
               that
               in
               my
               short
               Experience
               (
               and
               I
               have
               attended
               a
               considerable
               time
               upon
               the
               greatest
               Court
               for
               Trial
               of
               Offenders
               )
               I
               never
               heard
               such
               a
               thing
               asked
               by
               a
               Prisoner
               ,
               either
               at
               the
               Bar
               of
               the
               Kings
               Bench
               ,
               or
               at
               the
               Assizes
               .
               I
               speak
               with
               all
               the
               tenderness
               imaginable
               ,
               because
               we
               are
               in
               a
               matter
               of
               Blood
               ,
               and
               God-forbid
               but
               the
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               should
               have
               true
               and
               equal
               Justice
               done
               him
               .
               But
               if
               I
               take
               my
               Lord
               right
               ,
               this
               seems
               but
               an
               Artifice
               to
               delay
               the
               Trial
               ,
               of
               which
               it
               is
               our
               duty
               to
               be
               very
               cautious
               .
               Indeed
               I
               have
               seen
               the
               Judges
               ,
               upon
               trial
               of
               a
               Criminal
               ,
               call
               for
               the
               Depositions
               ,
               or
               Informations
               from
               the
               Clerk
               ,
               or
               the
               Justice
               of
               the
               Peace
               who
               took
               them
               ,
               and
               caused
               them
               to
               be
               read
               ;
               but
               for
               a
               Prisoner
               to
               call
               for
               Examinations
               at
               the
               Bar
               from
               the
               Prosecutors
               ,
               
                 Et
                 ex
                 Debita
                 Justitia
              
               ,
               to
               demand
               them
               ,
               is
               a
               thing
               ,
               which
               as
               it
               never
               has
               been
               ,
               so
               I
               think
               will
               not
               be
               admitted
               at
               this
               time
               ,
               especially
               when
               we
               are
               now
               almost
               at
               the
               end
               of
               the
               Cause
               ,
               and
               with
               all
               Modesty
               and
               Submission
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               look
               upon
               it
               as
               a
               very
               strange
               and
               unreasonable
               Demand
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               What
               is
               the
               reason
               your
               Lordship
               had
               not
               ,
               all
               this
               while
               ,
               Copies
               of
               the
               Journal
               ,
               which
               is
               that
               you
               now
               ask
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               shall
               not
               undertake
               that
               I
               am
               able
               to
               give
               your
               Lordships
               a
               reason
               for
               it
               ,
               because
               I
               think
               wherein
               I
               have
               been
               mistaken
               as
               to
               point
               of
               Time
               ;
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               tie
               me
               up
               to
               that
               .
               But
               this
               Gentleman
               that
               spoke
               last
               is
               not
               acquainted
               with
               me
               ,
               and
               does
               not
               know
               me
               ;
               for
               I
               have
               no
               desire
               to
               go
               back
               ,
               or
               to
               put
               off
               this
               Trial
               :
               But
               if
               it
               cannot
               be
               done
               to
               Day
               ,
               I
               am
               as
               guilty
               to
               Morrow
               as
               I
               am
               to
               Day
               ;
               and
               I
               desire
               no
               more
               than
               what
               he
               says
               hath
               been
               done
               in
               the
               like
               Cases
               .
               I
               do
               desire
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               the
               Informations
               and
               Depositions
               of
               
                 Dugdale
                 ,
                 Oates
              
               ,
               and
               Turbervile
               ,
               may
               be
               produced
               and
               read
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               make
               
               Observations
               upon
               them
               in
               my
               Defence
               .
               I
               desire
               those
               Affidavits
               may
               be
               brought
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Affidavits
               taken
               ,
               When
               ,
               and
               where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Of
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               that
               was
               read
               in
               your
               Lordships
               House
               ,
               I
               heard
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Let
               us
               understand
               your
               Lordships
               demands
               ,
               that
               when
               my
               Lords
               are
               withdrawn
               ,
               I
               may
               know
               what
               Questions
               to
               put
               to
               them
               ,
               and
               acquaint
               them
               with
               your
               desires
               :
               The
               one
               is
               the
               Journal
               of
               the
               Lords
               House
               ,
               which
               is
               always
               before
               their
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               you
               might
               have
               had
               Copies
               long
               since
               .
               The
               next
               thing
               you
               ask
               is
               an
               Affidavit
               of
               Dugdale
               ,
               if
               this
               Affidavit
               is
               entred
               into
               the
               Journal
               ,
               that
               supplies
               your
               Demands
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               not
               entred
               there
               ,
               where
               shall
               we
               find
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               know
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Does
               your
               Lordship
               think
               all
               this
               matter
               must
               stay
               till
               we
               can
               find
               a
               loose
               Affidavit
               ,
               that
               we
               know
               not
               where
               't
               is
               filed
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               know
               it
               was
               before
               the
               Council
               ,
               and
               I
               believe
               my
               Accusers
               have
               it
               ;
               I
               desire
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               may
               produce
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               seen
               none
               ,
               nor
               have
               none
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               The
               one
               was
               taken
               the
               24.
               of
               December
               this
               time
               two
               year
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               the
               29.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               will
               your
               Lordship
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               tell
               you
               ,
               you
               ought
               to
               be
               provided
               with
               some
               particular
               exception
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               make
               your
               demand
               in
               general
               .
               If
               your
               Lordship
               will
               say
               Dugdale
               did
               swear
               such
               and
               such
               things
               ,
               which
               are
               contrary
               to
               what
               he
               now
               affirms
               ,
               we
               know
               what
               to
               make
               of
               it
               ;
               but
               to
               hunt
               after
               an
               Affidavit
               ,
               that
               we
               know
               not
               where
               to
               find
               ,
               to
               pick
               something
               out
               of
               it
               ,
               that
               I
               do
               not
               understand
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               I
               appeal
               to
               my
               Lord
               of
               Essex
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Bridgewater
               ,
               whether
               they
               did
               not
               examine
               me
               the
               first
               time
               upon
               one
               or
               two
               Affidavits
               of
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Suppose
               it
               be
               not
               to
               be
               found
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               I
               must
               have
               patience
               and
               submit
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Can
               you
               tell
               wherein
               he
               swore
               quite
               blank
               contrary
               to
               what
               he
               swears
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               conceive
               it
               was
               never
               denied
               before
               ,
               but
               your
               Lordships
               may
               do
               what
               you
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Well
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               let
               us
               go
               on
               to
               the
               next
               .
               The
               Affidavits
               of
               Dugdale
               ,
               if
               they
               be
               entred
               on
               the
               Journal
               ,
               may
               be
               ready
               ,
               if
               not
               ,
               then●
               shall
               acquaint
               their
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               they
               will
               direct
               what
               is
               fit
               in
               the
               case
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               there
               is
               the
               Affidavit
               of
               Oats
               before
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               ,
               upon
               which
               I
               was
               committed
               ;
               the
               next
               day
               ,
               which
               was
               Friday
               ,
               it
               was
               read
               in
               your
               Lordships
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               believe
               that
               is
               entred
               upon
               the
               Journal
               ,
               and
               so
               will
               be
               ready
               to
               be
               used
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               do
               hope
               to
               make
               it
               evidently
               appear
               thereby
               that
               he
               is
               forsworn
               .
               I
               desire
               two
               Affidavits
               more
               that
               were
               taken
               before
               the
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               of
               Middlesex
               ,
               who
               examined
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               twice
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Justice
               of
               the
               Peace
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Warcupp
               ,
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Poultney
              
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 Thomas
                 Stringer
              
               .
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               not
               be
               misunderstood
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               desire
               to
               have
               them
               to
               instruct
               my
               Counsel
               ,
               or
               advise
               with
               them
               upon
               them
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               make
               my
               Defence
               without
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Those
               are
               voluntary
               extrajudicial
               Affidavits
               ,
               that
               no
               body
               is
               bound
               to
               keep
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               They
               were
               spoken
               of
               in
               the
               Votes
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               Gentlemen
               to
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               because
               my
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               is
               pleased
               to
               insinuate
               ,
               as
               if
               we
               knew
               where
               those
               Affidavits
               are
               which
               he
               seems
               to
               desire
               ,
               and
               because
               your
               Lordship
               was
               pleased
               to
               say
               that
               the
               Commons
               in
               Parliament
               are
               the
               Grand-Jury
               of
               the
               Kingdom
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               say
               one
               thing
               ;
               That
               certainly
               it
               will
               not
               be
               required
               from
               us
               to
               produce
               and
               publish
               the
               several
               Facts
               and
               Circumstances
               that
               induced
               us
               to
               impeach
               him
               ,
               if
               it
               shall
               be
               demanded
               by
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               wish
               you
               would
               answer
               the
               Question
               ,
               and
               not
               argue
               upon
               it
               ,
               whether
               those
               Affidavits
               of
               Turbervile
               may
               not
               be
               produced
               ;
               for
               't
               is
               my
               Lords
               Exception
               against
               your
               Witnesses
               ,
               that
               he
               swears
               several
               ways
               ;
               and
               by
               those
               Affidavits
               of
               Turbervile
               ,
               he
               intends
               to
               disprove
               him
               in
               what
               he
               hath
               said
               to
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Win.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               never
               administer
               an
               Oath
               ,
               and
               therefore
               it
               is
               not
               to
               be
               said
               to
               us
               ,
               but
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               must
               go
               to
               the
               particular
               Offices
               where
               they
               are
               to
               be
               found
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               ask
               you
               where
               my
               Lord
               should
               find
               them
               ,
               but
               whether
               ,
               if
               they
               can
               be
               found
               ,
               you
               can
               object
               any
               thing
               why
               they
               should
               not
               be
               produced
               and
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               When
               they
               are
               produced
               we
               will
               give
               an
               Answer
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               informed
               this
               is
               the
               substance
               of
               the
               Affidavit
               ,
               That
               Turbervile
               did
               swear
               before
               two
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               whether
               they
               be
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               cann't
               tell
               ,
               that
               he
               spoke
               with
               me
               at
               Doway
               ,
               and
               in
               Paris
               ,
               in
               the
               years
               (
               73.
               )
               and
               (
               77.
               )
               and
               now
               he
               says
               (
               72.
               )
               and
               75.
               )
               I
               am
               informed
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               I
               appeal
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               they
               are
               all
               Persons
               of
               Honour
               and
               Worth
               (
               if
               my
               Information
               be
               mistaken
               I
               beg
               their
               Pardon
               ,
               and
               yours
               for
               't
               )
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               mend
               it
               after
               he
               had
               sworn
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               these
               all
               you
               do
               demand
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
               Whether
               this
               was
               true
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               don't
               know
               ,
               ●
               is
               what
               I
               have
               been
               told
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               (
               who
               are
               all
               worthy
               
               persons
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               believe
               I
               have
               an
               Enemy
               among
               them
               )
               they
               know
               whether
               I
               speak
               true
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               will
               your
               Lordship
               be
               ready
               to
               make
               your
               Defence
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               As
               soon
               as
               ever
               I
               have
               them
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               stay
               a
               minute
               ,
               a
               moment
               ,
               an
               instant
               ,
               I
               desire
               not
               to
               shew
               my
               Counsel
               ,
               nor
               any
               one
               ;
               for
               my
               Tryal
               is
               a
               thing
               that
               I
               have
               long
               desired
               .
               Therefore
               I
               would
               not
               be
               mistaken
               ,
               as
               if
               I
               would
               put
               off
               the
               Cause
               .
               I
               am
               innocent
               ,
               and
               shall
               be
               so
               while
               I
               live
               ,
               and
               hope
               I
               shall
               make
               it
               appear
               so
               .
               I
               beg
               if
               this
               be
               a
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               whether
               I
               may
               have
               them
               or
               not
               ,
               that
               my
               Counsel
               be
               heard
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               This
               is
               a
               matter
               of
               Fact.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               I
               insist
               upon
               it
               as
               things
               without
               which
               I
               cannot
               make
               my
               Defence
               ;
               I
               am
               innocent
               ,
               and
               I
               suppose
               not
               one
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               nor
               one
               of
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               will
               debar
               me
               of
               that
               by
               which
               I
               may
               make
               my
               Innocency
               appear
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               cannot
               know
               my
               Lords
               pleasure
               till
               they
               are
               withdrawn
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Before
               your
               Lordships
               withdraw
               ,
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               please
               to
               hear
               us
               a
               few
               words
               ,
               which
               we
               think
               may
               be
               for
               the
               Service
               of
               this
               Court.
               My
               Lords
               ,
               what
               Evidence
               is
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               't
               is
               in
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               what
               of
               that
               you
               shall
               please
               to
               communicate
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ;
               but
               for
               this
               Evidence
               he
               speaks
               of
               as
               remaining
               in
               our
               hands
               ,
               and
               which
               he
               takes
               upon
               himself
               to
               appeal
               to
               us
               for
               ,
               admits
               of
               another
               consideration
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               we
               were
               conscious
               of
               any
               thing
               in
               these
               Affidavits
               that
               were
               for
               my
               Lords
               Advantage
               ,
               and
               knew
               where
               they
               were
               ,
               we
               would
               redily
               produce
               them
               ;
               but
               for
               my self
               ,
               I
               must
               answer
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               my
               Companions
               will
               say
               so
               too
               ,
               that
               we
               do
               not
               know
               where
               these
               Affidavits
               are
               ,
               nor
               of
               any
               Variation
               in
               those
               Affidavits
               from
               what
               is
               now
               sworn
               ,
               but
               whatever
               they
               were
               ,
               they
               were
               taken
               for
               the
               Information
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               who
               are
               the
               Prosecutors
               in
               this
               Cause
               ,
               and
               who
               are
               no
               Judges
               .
               Now
               if
               my
               Lord
               will
               bring
               any
               Witness
               that
               will
               say
               this
               Witness
               of
               ours
               did
               before
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peaee
               depose
               so
               and
               so
               ,
               and
               says
               the
               contrary
               now
               ,
               there
               might
               be
               then
               just
               reasons
               to
               look
               after
               these
               Affidavits
               and
               to
               have
               them
               produced
               ,
               but
               upon
               a
               bare
               imagination
               that
               there
               is
               a
               Variance
               where
               in
               truth
               there
               is
               none
               ,
               and
               the
               Truth
               may
               otherwise
               be
               known
               ;
               to
               desire
               that
               these
               Affidavits
               that
               never
               were
               before
               you
               should
               be
               produced
               ,
               whether
               such
               a
               Suggestion
               is
               to
               be
               admitted
               ,
               I
               humbly
               submit
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Consideration
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               these
               Gentlemen
               that
               are
               the
               Managers
               for
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               will
               aver
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               there
               is
               no
               Variation
               in
               them
               ,
               I
               will
               submit
               to
               them
               and
               be
               quiet
               ;
               if
               they
               will
               say
               it
               was
               not
               debated
               in
               the
               House
               ,
               whether
               he
               should
               amend
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Look
               you
               ,
               he
               puts
               it
               upon
               you
               so
               far
               Gentlemen
               ,
               that
               if
               you
               will
               
               take
               it
               upon
               you
               to
               aver
               that
               there
               is
               no
               Variation
               between
               those
               Affidavits
               upon
               which
               you
               grounded
               your
               Impeachment
               ,
               and
               the
               Evidence
               you
               have
               given
               upon
               the
               Trial
               of
               your
               Impeachment
               ,
               he
               will
               not
               give
               you
               the
               trouble
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               let
               me
               say
               one
               word
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               thus
               long
               a
               Prisoner
               ,
               I
               was
               as
               far
               from
               being
               proceeded
               against
               now
               ,
               as
               any
               of
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Lords
               in
               the
               Tower
               ,
               till
               Turbervile
               came
               in
               with
               his
               Discovery
               ,
               and
               I
               believe
               I
               am
               now
               called
               the
               sooner
               (
               which
               I
               am
               glad
               of
               ,
               and
               I
               give
               the
               Gentlemen
               thanks
               for
               it
               )
               upon
               the
               Affidavit
               of
               Turbervile
               ,
               I
               desire
               that
               Affidavit
               ;
               and
               though
               it
               be
               true
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               give
               no
               Oath
               ,
               yet
               they
               appointed
               two
               Members
               of
               the
               House
               that
               were
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               of
               Middlesex
               to
               take
               it
               upon
               Oath
               ,
               and
               he
               desired
               the
               next
               day
               to
               amend
               it
               ;
               and
               I
               put
               my self
               upon
               them
               ,
               whether
               this
               be
               not
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               to
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               cannot
               answer
               ,
               because
               I
               don't
               hear
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               say
               this
               ,
               I
               do
               observe
               that
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               (
               whose
               face
               I
               never
               saw
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               that
               I
               know
               of
               ,
               till
               to
               day
               ,
               nor
               never
               spoke
               a
               word
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               I
               shall
               prove
               that
               no
               Servant
               that
               ever
               I
               had
               see
               him
               )
               did
               depose
               (
               for
               the
               purpose
               )
               to
               day
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               in
               the
               Years
               (
               73.
               )
               and
               (
               76.
               )
               in
               such
               and
               such
               places
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               did
               speak
               with
               me
               at
               Doway
               and
               Paris
               ,
               and
               to
               Morrow
               recollecting
               his
               Notes
               ,
               he
               found
               he
               was
               mistaken
               in
               his
               Affidavit
               that
               he
               had
               made
               before
               ,
               and
               desired
               to
               mend
               it
               ,
               and
               brought
               it
               to
               the
               Years
               (
               72.
               )
               and
               (
               75.
               )
               there
               was
               some
               Debate
               in
               the
               House
               about
               it
               ,
               whether
               they
               should
               permit
               him
               to
               mend
               it
               ;
               I
               appeal
               to
               all
               the
               Gentlemen
               ,
               whether
               it
               were
               not
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               labour
               is
               to
               have
               two
               Affidavits
               that
               you
               do
               presume
               will
               do
               your
               business
               in
               order
               to
               the
               finding
               out
               a
               variety
               of
               time
               of
               his
               being
               at
               Doway
               or
               at
               Paris
               :
               That
               which
               does
               press
               your
               Lordship
               we
               know
               in
               
               Turbervile's
               Evidence
               ,
               is
               ,
               That
               at
               Paris
               in
               the
               Room
               below
               of
               your
               Lodging
               ,
               you
               encouraged
               him
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               you
               were
               to
               have
               met
               him
               at
               Diep
               to
               know
               his
               mind
               ,
               but
               you
               came
               not
               ,
               and
               he
               went
               away
               ;
               if
               you
               have
               it
               in
               the
               Affidavit
               quite
               contrary
               to
               this
               ,
               you
               say
               somewhat
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               it
               presses
               me
               ,
               and
               every
               man
               in
               England
               ,
               not
               to
               be
               run
               down
               by
               a
               Fellow
               that
               forswears
               himself
               ;
               for
               him
               to
               swear
               one
               thing
               to
               day
               ,
               and
               another
               thing
               to
               morrow
               ,
               is
               Perjury
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               it
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               was
               done
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               it
               does
               not
               become
               any
               of
               us
               that
               are
               Members
               to
               disclose
               :
               But
               I
               have
               heard
               ,
               and
               will
               admit
               it
               ,
               that
               in
               the
               Depositions
               ,
               the
               Witness
               made
               before
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ,
               there
               was
               a
               year
               put
               down
               ,
               which
               he
               going
               home
               ,
               and
               upon
               sight
               of
               Letters
               and
               Papers
               ,
               found
               it
               to
               be
               mistaken
               ,
               he
               comes
               the
               next
               day
               and
               desires
               to
               alter
               it
               ,
               if
               this
               be
               for
               my
               Lords
               Service
               ▪
               we
               shall
               grant
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               on
               or
               about
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               my
               Lord
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               do
               say
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               am
               informed
               by
               what
               I
               have
               heard
               cursorily
               ;
               for
               I
               have
               not
               seen
               one
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               before
               the
               day
               of
               my
               Tryal
               ,
               that
               though
               in
               his
               second
               Deposition
               he
               named
               the
               years
               (
               72.
               )
               and
               (
               75.
               )
               yet
               I
               can
               prove
               him
               perjured
               as
               to
               what
               he
               hath
               sworn
               here
               to
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Since
               't
               is
               insisted
               upon
               Gentlemen
               ,
               that
               there
               is
               a
               Variety
               in
               the
               last
               Deposition
               from
               what
               he
               swore
               at
               first
               ,
               what
               can
               you
               say
               why
               he
               should
               not
               have
               the
               avail
               of
               his
               Exception
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               whether
               your
               Lordships
               will
               think
               fit
               to
               consider
               by
               what
               ways
               and
               means
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               informed
               themselves
               ,
               in
               order
               to
               Impeachments
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               you
               ;
               and
               for
               those
               things
               that
               still
               remain
               in
               the
               hands
               of
               the
               Commons
               ,
               I
               suppose
               you
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               consider
               how
               you
               can
               send
               for
               them
               to
               inform
               you
               .
               We
               would
               not
               be
               mistaken
               in
               the
               matter
               ;
               let
               not
               any
               one
               that
               hears
               us
               think
               that
               we
               are
               conscious
               there
               is
               the
               least
               Variation
               ,
               nay
               we
               are
               confident
               ,
               if
               the
               thing
               were
               produced
               ,
               it
               would
               turn
               to
               my
               Lords
               prejudice
               ;
               but
               what
               is
               done
               in
               this
               Case
               ,
               may
               be
               a
               President
               for
               the
               future
               ;
               and
               therefore
               we
               cannot
               without
               resorting
               to
               the
               House
               ,
               consent
               to
               deliver
               any
               thing
               the
               House
               took
               for
               their
               Information
               .
               Therefore
               if
               your
               Lordships
               stand
               upon
               it
               ,
               and
               incline
               to
               have
               it
               done
               ,
               we
               must
               resort
               to
               the
               House
               to
               ask
               their
               leave
               whether
               we
               shall
               do
               it
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               cannot
               tell
               what
               my
               Lords
               will
               incline
               to
               do
               ;
               but
               I
               desire
               when
               you
               are
               gone
               back
               ,
               you
               will
               consider
               how
               far
               it
               will
               make
               the
               matter
               easie
               to
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               can
               give
               no
               Answer
               to
               that
               till
               we
               have
               attended
               our
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               consider
               what
               a
               piece
               of
               cunning
               he
               hath
               put
               upon
               both
               Houses
               ,
               to
               pass
               by
               his
               villifying
               our
               Witnesses
               ,
               which
               I
               may
               say
               was
               not
               comely
               .
               But
               if
               he
               makes
               any
               Question
               ,
               it
               must
               be
               put
               to
               the
               Houses
               upon
               supposition
               to
               be
               a
               Question
               ,
               and
               so
               he
               would
               bring
               things
               only
               to
               this
               issue
               to
               put
               off
               the
               Cause
               for
               to
               day
               .
               He
               ought
               to
               put
               that
               which
               might
               probably
               be
               something
               of
               a
               Question
               .
               Let
               him
               instance
               in
               particulars
               ,
               and
               make
               out
               his
               Evidence
               ,
               not
               seign
               things
               to
               put
               off
               the
               Cause
               ;
               for
               ought
               I
               see
               't
               is
               to
               no
               other
               end
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               a
               Jesuitical
               trick
               I
               think
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               feign
               nothing
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               told
               this
               that
               I
               speak
               here
               ,
               and
               I
               desire
               it
               may
               be
               proved
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               are
               bound
               up
               so
               that
               you
               cannot
               consent
               ,
               I
               can
               ▪
               t
               help
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Let
               him
               put
               the
               Fact
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               not
               suppose
               ,
               and
               imagine
               Things
               ,
               and
               then
               raife
               Questions
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               It
               is
               usual
               in
               these
               Cases
               for
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               
               Commons
               to
               stay
               till
               the
               Lords
               are
               withdrawn
               ,
               and
               expect
               their
               Lordships
               Resolution
               ;
               perhaps
               they
               may
               so
               order
               it
               that
               you
               need
               not
               go
               back
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               before
               your
               Lordships
               withdraw
               ,
               that
               it
               may
               be
               taken
               notice
               of
               by
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               for
               the
               matter
               of
               the
               variation
               of
               the
               year
               we
               do
               admit
               it
               .
               My
               Lord
               is
               not
               pleased
               to
               mention
               any
               other
               particular
               matter
               of
               the
               Affidavit
               ,
               but
               only
               says
               in
               general
               that
               it
               is
               contrary
               to
               what
               he
               says
               to
               day
               ;
               if
               my
               Lord
               would
               tell
               us
               wherein
               ,
               perhaps
               we
               should
               admit
               it
               ,
               or
               answer
               it
               ,
               or
               take
               it
               into
               further
               consideration
               ;
               but
               to
               make
               so
               general
               an
               Allegation
               ,
               and
               give
               your
               Lordships
               no
               particular
               account
               ,
               we
               submit
               whether
               such
               a
               suggestion
               ought
               to
               be
               regarded
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               there
               any
               further
               variation
               ,
               besides
               the
               variation
               of
               the
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               cannot
               say
               there
               is
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               it
               ;
               but
               I
               do
               really
               believe
               in
               my
               Conscience
               there
               is
               ,
               from
               what
               I
               have
               heard
               ;
               but
               however
               I
               insist
               upon
               it
               ,
               and
               demand
               your
               Judgment
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Win.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               humbly
               desire
               one
               word
               as
               to
               the
               Objection
               that
               hath
               been
               made
               ,
               that
               he
               hath
               prayed
               your
               Lordships
               to
               grant
               him
               the
               sight
               of
               such
               and
               such
               Papers
               .
               The
               nature
               of
               this
               Cause
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               know
               is
               such
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               never
               the
               like
               number
               of
               Papers
               known
               ,
               as
               to
               the
               General
               Plot
               ;
               and
               my
               Lord
               ,
               that
               is
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               may
               as
               well
               demand
               to
               morrow
               such
               a
               particular
               Paper
               ,
               and
               the
               next
               day
               another
               ,
               that
               he
               hath
               heard
               of
               in
               the
               General
               Plot
               ;
               and
               where
               will
               the
               end
               of
               this
               be
               ?
               So
               that
               if
               the
               thing
               be
               granted
               upon
               the
               variation
               of
               the
               time
               that
               it
               was
               immediately
               rectifyed
               ,
               and
               he
               cannot
               produce
               any
               grounds
               that
               may
               satisfie
               your
               Lordships
               why
               he
               should
               have
               that
               Paper
               ,
               you
               may
               as
               well
               suffer
               him
               to
               demand
               any
               other
               Paper
               after
               ,
               and
               so
               never
               end
               the
               Cause
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               hath
               been
               told
               ,
               and
               you
               shall
               find
               it
               ,
               that
               you
               shall
               have
               as
               fair
               and
               equal
               an
               Hearing
               as
               is
               possible
               ,
               and
               nothing
               shall
               be
               denied
               you
               that
               is
               just
               and
               reasonable
               to
               safe
               your
               Life
               ,
               or
               make
               your
               Defence
               .
               But
               pray
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               for
               so
               much
               as
               is
               upon
               the
               Journal
               ,
               which
               you
               may
               resort
               unto
               ,
               you
               may
               easily
               know
               what
               answer
               my
               Lords
               will
               give
               to
               that
               ;
               but
               for
               this
               other
               thing
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               only
               the
               variety
               you
               alledge
               of
               the
               Time
               and
               the
               Year
               ,
               and
               you
               do
               desire
               it
               to
               look
               for
               other
               Exceptions
               ,
               and
               you
               pray
               the
               help
               of
               the
               Lords
               to
               see
               such
               a
               Paper
               ,
               that
               you
               might
               make
               inquiry
               after
               other
               varieties
               ,
               Do
               you
               think
               they
               are
               to
               help
               you
               to
               find
               out
               Exceptions
               to
               the
               Witnesses
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               desire
               their
               Lordships
               to
               help
               me
               to
               find
               out
               Exceptions
               ;
               but
               I
               have
               told
               your
               Lordships
               of
               one
               Exception
               to
               the
               Affidavit
               which
               these
               Gentlemen
               acknowledge
               to
               be
               true
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               Affidavit
               is
               ,
               that
               he
               Swears
               I
               spoke
               to
               him
               at
               Doway
               in
               the
               year
               (
               72
               )
               or
               (
               73
               )
               which
               I
               can
               disprove
               ;
               and
               then
               I
               say
               he
               Swearing
               several
               things
               false
               ,
               he
               is
               no
               credible
               Witness
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               admitted
               to
               your
               Lordship
               that
               he
               did
               mistake
               the
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               admitted
               that
               he
               said
               he
               spoke
               to
               me
               at
               Doway
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               very
               an
               easie
               matter
               were
               it
               to
               expedite
               this
               Process
               ,
               by
               allowing
               the
               Prisoner
               his
               demand
               in
               this
               particular
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               saw
               it
               ,
               and
               a
               great
               many
               of
               the
               Managers
               say
               they
               never
               saw
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               These
               Gentlemen
               say
               I
               did
               it
               to
               put
               off
               the
               Cause
               ,
               I
               am
               far
               from
               it
               :
               for
               though
               I
               am
               in
               a
               condition
               very
               unfit
               to
               manage
               my
               Defence
               ,
               faint
               and
               weak
               with
               speaking
               so
               long
               ,
               and
               hardly
               able
               to
               speak
               any
               more
               ,
               yet
               I
               desire
               to
               finish
               this
               night
               ,
               and
               if
               I
               see
               it
               now
               ,
               it
               will
               be
               enough
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               desire
               to
               have
               a
               Copy
               to
               advise
               with
               my
               Counsel
               ,
               or
               any
               body
               else
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               will
               you
               observe
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               as
               weary
               as
               he
               is
               ,
               would
               make
               an
               end
               of
               the
               matter
               presently
               ,
               if
               you
               would
               but
               send
               for
               the
               Affidavit
               ,
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               is
               not
               in
               our
               hands
               here
               ,
               if
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               will
               order
               it
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               done
               ,
               we
               cannot
               order
               it
               of
               our selves
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powle
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               is
               a
               Paper
               that
               does
               properly
               belong
               to
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               think
               ,
               that
               none
               of
               us
               here
               that
               are
               Managers
               for
               this
               Trial
               ,
               will
               undertake
               it
               shall
               be
               delivered
               without
               resorting
               to
               the
               House
               for
               their
               Opinion
               ;
               for
               though
               I
               do
               verily
               beleive
               ,
               and
               am
               fully
               persuaded
               ,
               that
               what
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               does
               object
               ,
               will
               not
               appear
               to
               be
               so
               ;
               For
               I
               think
               there
               is
               not
               any
               thing
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Staffora's
               speaking
               with
               this
               Witness
               at
               Doway
               mentioned
               therein
               ;
               yet
               how
               far
               the
               Presidents
               of
               this
               may
               reach
               in
               other
               Cases
               ,
               I
               think
               ,
               is
               worthy
               the
               Consideration
               of
               the
               House
               .
               And
               we
               cannot
               presume
               to
               offer
               any
               thing
               in
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               until
               you
               be
               pleased
               to
               give
               us
               leave
               to
               go
               and
               resort
               thither
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Lords
             withdrew
             ,
             and
             after
             an
             Hours
             and
             an
             Halfs
             space
             returned
             ,
             and
             Proclamation
             was
             made
             for
             Silence
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Viscount
               Safford
               ,
               my
               Lords
               have
               considered
               of
               the
               Demands
               you
               made
               ;
               and
               my
               Lords
               ,
               upon
               the
               Debate
               of
               the
               Reasons
               of
               your
               Demands
               ,
               are
               come
               to
               this
               Resolution
               .
               Your
               Lordship
               did
               demand
               in
               the
               first
               place
               ,
               that
               you
               might
               have
               a
               sight
               of
               the
               Journal
               ,
               and
               have
               the
               Papers
               lodged
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Peers
               :
               My
               Lords
               take
               notice
               that
               this
               Demand
               which
               your
               Lordship
               now
               makes
               ,
               is
               a
               Demand
               that
               was
               granted
               you
               long
               ago
               ,
               about
               two
               years
               since
               ;
               you
               have
               an
               Order
               entred
               upon
               the
               Books
               ,
               that
               your
               Lordship
               should
               have
               Copies
               of
               every
               thing
               in
               that
               House
               ,
               and
               if
               your
               Lordship
               have
               not
               taken
               out
               Copies
               ,
               and
               if
               any
               thing
               is
               missing
               to
               your
               Lordship
               that
               is
               yet
               there
               extant
               ,
               't
               is
               your
               Lordships
               fault
               .
               However
               ,
               my
               Lords
               will
               command
               their
               Journals
               to
               be
               brought
               hither
               ,
               that
               your
               Lordship
               may
               make
               that
               use
               of
               them
               that
               may
               be
               of
               most
               profit
               to
               you
               .
               For
               the
               other
               
               Demand
               touching
               the
               Affidavit
               supposed
               to
               be
               taken
               from
               Turbervile
               by
               the
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               that
               my
               Lords
               upon
               Consideration
               had
               ,
               do
               find
               that
               there
               is
               no
               Obligation
               at
               all
               upon
               them
               as
               a
               Court
               ,
               to
               concern
               themselves
               in
               that
               Matter
               .
               And
               therefore
               my
               Lords
               have
               made
               no
               Order
               in
               that
               Point
               ,
               but
               your
               Lordship
               must
               come
               provided
               as
               well
               as
               you
               can
               ,
               and
               the
               Court
               can
               do
               no
               more
               to
               help
               you
               in
               it
               .
               For
               the
               rest
               ,
               my
               Lords
               did
               take
               notice
               that
               your
               Lordship
               said
               before
               they
               were
               withdrawn
               ,
               That
               you
               found
               your self
               very
               Faint
               and
               Weary
               ,
               and
               that
               you
               were
               much
               spent
               in
               Discourse
               ,
               and
               Tired
               with
               what
               already
               you
               have
               done
               .
               My
               Lords
               are
               extreamly
               willing
               to
               give
               your
               Lordship
               all
               the
               Favour
               and
               Accommodation
               possible
               ,
               for
               the
               Recollecting
               your self
               ,
               therefore
               my
               Lords
               will
               not
               now
               put
               you
               upon
               it
               ,
               to
               go
               on
               to
               make
               your
               Defence
               ,
               but
               will
               give
               you
               time
               till
               to
               Morrow
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               humbly
               give
               your
               Lordships
               thanks
               for
               your
               kindness
               and
               Favour
               to
               me
               ;
               but
               here
               I
               profess
               ,
               and
               call
               Almighty
               God
               to
               witness
               ,
               rather
               than
               I
               would
               have
               it
               thought
               I
               am
               willing
               to
               put
               it
               off
               ,
               I
               would
               have
               sunk
               down
               Dead
               at
               the
               Bar.
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               there
               was
               another
               Demand
               that
               I
               made
               :
               Your
               Lordships
               say
               ,
               I
               shall
               have
               Copies
               of
               all
               the
               Journals
               ,
               and
               that
               you
               cannot
               help
               me
               to
               the
               Affidavit
               of
               Turbervile
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               it
               without
               saying
               one
               word
               more
               ;
               but
               I
               desire
               that
               I
               may
               have
               brought
               hither
               to
               Morrow
               the
               Journals
               ,
               and
               other
               Papers
               in
               the
               Lords
               House
               ,
               but
               I
               desire
               also
               the
               two
               Affidavits
               of
               Dugdale
               ,
               taken
               the
               one
               the
               24.
               the
               other
               the
               29.
               of
               December
               following
               ,
               which
               Depositions
               were
               taken
               before
               Mr.
               Lane
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Vernon
               ,
               in
               Stafford
               Town
               ,
               when
               Dugdale
               was
               in
               Prison
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Look
               you
               my
               Lord
               ,
               This
               is
               all
               under
               the
               same
               Rule
               :
               What
               Evidence
               soever
               there
               is
               before
               the
               Court
               of
               Peers
               ,
               that
               you
               shall
               have
               ;
               whatsoever
               Evidence
               is
               not
               in
               that
               Court
               ,
               you
               ought
               to
               come
               provided
               of
               ;
               the
               Court
               is
               not
               to
               stay
               ,
               nor
               to
               help
               you
               to
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               beg
               your
               pardon
               ,
               Dugdale
               made
               an
               Affidavit
               then
               ,
               and
               says
               the
               clean
               contrary
               now
               ;
               I
               desire
               nothing
               but
               Justice
               ,
               and
               I
               am
               sure
               I
               shall
               have
               all
               Justice
               from
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Produce
               it
               ,
               and
               alledge
               what
               you
               will
               for
               your self
               ,
               it
               shall
               be
               heard
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               How
               then
               shall
               I
               be
               able
               to
               make
               my
               Defence
               ,
               if
               I
               have
               not
               those
               Papers
               ,
               which
               I
               humbly
               concieve
               by
               the
               Law
               ,
               ought
               to
               be
               brought
               ?
               These
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               say
               ,
               That
               I
               could
               not
               have
               Turbervile's
               Affidavit
               because
               it
               was
               in
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               they
               could
               not
               give
               it
               without
               consent
               of
               the
               House
               ,
               but
               this
               was
               examined
               before
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ,
               and
               returned
               to
               the
               Council
               :
               Sure
               I
               shall
               have
               that
               ?
               I
               was
               examined
               by
               my
               Lord
               of
               Essex
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               of
               Bridgewater
               ,
               upon
               that
               Affidavit
               twice
               I
               think
               ,
               therefore
               that
               is
               material
               and
               necessary
               ;
               and
               I
               know
               your
               Lordships
               would
               not
               have
               me
               come
               to
               defend
               my self
               without
               Weapons
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               I
               do
               beseech
               your
               Lordship
               to
               be
               a
               little
               better
               informed
               in
               your
               own
               Business
               .
               You
               have
               leave
               to
               make
               use
               of
               the
               Journal
               ,
               and
               all
               Papers
               that
               are
               entred
               there
               ;
               the
               Clerks
               say
               ,
               
               Dugdale's
               Oath
               is
               entred
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Is
               the
               24.
               of
               December
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Clerk.
               
            
             
               It
               is
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               do
               not
               put
               the
               Court
               upon
               Interrogatories
               ,
               but
               come
               provided
               as
               well
               as
               you
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               it
               be
               entred
               on
               the
               Journal
               Book
               ,
               I
               desire
               not
               the
               Original
               ,
               I
               am
               very
               well
               satisfied
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               be
               ready
               to
               go
               on
               to
               morrow
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               withall
               my
               heart
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               too
               late
               Gentlemen
               to
               go
               on
               to
               Night
               ,
               we
               must
               Adjourn
               till
               to
               Morrow
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               had
               so
               much
               to
               write
               last
               Night
               ,
               that
               I
               had
               very
               little
               sleep
               ;
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               not
               come
               till
               Ten.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               able
               to
               hear
               you
               ,
               I
               take
               as
               much
               pains
               to
               come
               near
               you
               as
               I
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               had
               a
               great
               deal
               to
               write
               last
               Night
               ,
               I
               say
               ,
               and
               I
               want
               some
               sleep
               ;
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               not
               come
               till
               Ten.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               be
               ready
               by
               Ten
               a
               Clock
               to
               Morrow
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               be
               ready
               by
               Ten.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               will
               move
               my
               Lords
               when
               they
               are
               withdrawn
               ,
               to
               Adjourn
               till
               Ten
               to
               Morrow
               .
               But
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               how
               your
               Lordship
               is
               provided
               ,
               or
               how
               you
               look
               after
               your
               own
               Business
               .
               If
               you
               have
               not
               had
               Copies
               of
               the
               Journal
               all
               this
               while
               ,
               't
               is
               you
               are
               in
               the
               fault
               .
               A
               great
               deal
               of
               it
               is
               in
               Print
               ,
               you
               may
               send
               your
               Solicitor
               to
               the
               Clerk
               of
               the
               Parliament
               ,
               and
               take
               Copies
               of
               what
               you
               have
               need
               of
               .
               I
               give
               you
               notice
               of
               it
               ,
               that
               if
               you
               come
               unprovided
               ,
               you
               may
               know
               it
               is
               your
               own
               fault
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               acknowledge
               I
               have
               Copies
               of
               the
               Journal
               Book
               ,
               I
               think
               of
               all
               ;
               but
               I
               do
               not
               find
               any
               thing
               of
               
               Dugdale's
               second
               Deposition
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Here
               is
               that
               of
               the
               24.
               of
               December
               ,
               that
               you
               ask
               after
               ,
               send
               your
               Solicitor
               and
               then
               you
               shall
               have
               a
               Copy
               out
               of
               the
               Journal
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               assure
               your
               Lordship
               I
               will
               be
               ready
               to
               morrow
               ,
               if
               I
               can
               get
               those
               Copies
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               will
               give
               you
               as
               much
               Ease
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               Accommodations
               that
               are
               fit
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               to
               morrow
               I
               will
               be
               ready
               by
               Ten
               a
               Clock
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               only
               I
               would
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               take
               notice
               ,
               that
               these
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               do
               acknowledge
               that
               Turbervile
               swore
               one
               day
               to
               one
               year
               ,
               and
               the
               next
               day
               to
               another
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               you
               say
               you
               can
               be
               ready
               to
               mor●ow
               at
               Ten
               a
               Clock
               ,
               Are
               you
               sure
               you
               can
               be
               ready
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               be
               so
               ready
               as
               I
               shall
               be
               next
               day
               ;
               but
               I
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               will
               rather
               sink
               down
               in
               the
               place
               where
               I
               am
               ,
               if
               you
               think
               fit
               ,
               than
               put
               off
               the
               Tryal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Look
               you
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               in
               a
               Case
               of
               this
               consequence
               ,
               and
               of
               this
               Vital
               Importance
               to
               a
               Man
               as
               this
               is
               ,
               where
               is
               the
               inconvenience
               if
               there
               should
               be
               a
               days
               respite
               ,
               and
               the
               Court
               should
               Adjourn
               till
               Friday
               ,
               if
               my
               Lords
               be
               moved
               in
               it
               ,
               I
               make
               no
               direction
               ,
               but
               what
               inconvenience
               will
               be
               in
               it
               ?
               Will
               it
               not
               be
               every
               way
               as
               well
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               does
               not
               expect
               from
               us
               to
               give
               our
               consent
               to
               put
               off
               the
               Tryal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               ask
               only
               what
               inconvenience
               it
               is
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordships
               are
               the
               Judges
               ,
               and
               will
               do
               as
               you
               find
               it
               reasonable
               ;
               but
               this
               I
               say
               ,
               it
               is
               very
               unusual
               ,
               and
               scarce
               to
               be
               Presidented
               ,
               that
               when
               the
               Prosecutors
               have
               given
               an
               Evidence
               ,
               the
               Prisoner
               should
               have
               time
               ,
               a
               further
               considerable
               time
               ,
               to
               give
               his
               Answer
               to
               it
               ;
               the
               Prisoner
               knows
               before
               ▪
               hand
               the
               general
               Scope
               and
               Drift
               of
               the
               Evidence
               ;
               therefore
               for
               him
               to
               have
               time
               till
               to
               morrow
               is
               a
               favour
               ;
               but
               to
               have
               more
               than
               that
               ,
               even
               a
               whole
               day
               to
               intervene
               ,
               is
               very
               unusual
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               that
               be
               all
               ,
               and
               the
               matter
               depend
               upon
               what
               is
               usual
               ,
               I
               do
               venture
               with
               my
               Lords
               leave
               ,
               to
               inform
               you
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               of
               Strafford
               had
               two
               days
               time
               after
               the
               Prosecution
               to
               give
               his
               Answer
               to
               what
               was
               said
               against
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               That
               was
               an
               Evidence
               upon
               Twenty
               Eight
               Articles
               ,
               this
               but
               upon
               Two
               Heads
               ;
               and
               that
               was
               after
               a
               long
               Examination
               of
               many
               days
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               I
               had
               prepared
               my self
               for
               my
               Tryal
               as
               well
               as
               I
               could
               ,
               and
               had
               written
               down
               a
               few
               things
               that
               I
               intended
               to
               say
               ;
               and
               I
               profess
               before
               God
               as
               I
               am
               a
               Man
               ,
               and
               as
               I
               am
               a
               Christian
               ,
               of
               all
               I
               intended
               to
               say
               I
               have
               in
               a
               manner
               made
               use
               of
               very
               few
               words
               ;
               but
               as
               to
               what
               I
               had
               to
               say
               upon
               the
               Evidence
               I
               was
               forced
               to
               lay
               all
               aside
               ,
               because
               I
               wanted
               these
               Papers
               ;
               I
               have
               not
               eaten
               to
               day
               ,
               and
               being
               forced
               to
               lay
               aside
               all
               that
               I
               had
               written
               ,
               I
               shall
               need
               a
               whole
               day
               to
               write
               ;
               however
               I
               submit
               my self
               to
               your
               Lordships
               in
               that
               matter
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               equal
               to
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordship
               will
               be
               as
               ready
               to
               morrow
               as
               another
               day
               ,
               this
               Court
               will
               be
               more
               ready
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               do
               give
               me
               another
               day
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               debate
               with
               my
               Counsel
               any
               one
               thing
               upon
               the
               Papers
               I
               have
               asked
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               will
               you
               be
               pleased
               to
               make
               your
               demand
               to
               my
               Lords
               ,
               who
               are
               your
               Judges
               ,
               by
               what
               time
               you
               will
               be
               content
               to
               be
               foreclosed
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               you
               will
               give
               me
               till
               Friday
               ,
               I
               shall
               be
               ready
               to
               give
               my
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               bring
               Witnesses
               sufficient
               I
               hope
               to
               prove
               my
               Innocency
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               do
               not
               presume
               at
               all
               to
               offer
               our
               consent
               to
               what
               time
               the
               Court
               shall
               be
               Adjourned
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               we
               do
               not
               ask
               your
               Consent
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               And
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               ask
               the
               Prisoners
               consent
               ,
               nor
               do
               it
               by
               his
               direction
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               De
               morte
               hominis
               non
               est
               cunctatio
               longa
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               But
               we
               must
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               as
               we
               are
               entrusted
               by
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               to
               Manage
               this
               Tryal
               ,
               to
               take
               notice
               ,
               that
               as
               we
               do
               not
               expect
               your
               Lordships
               should
               take
               the
               Measures
               from
               our
               Desires
               ,
               much
               less
               do
               we
               expect
               you
               should
               do
               it
               at
               the
               only
               instance
               of
               the
               Prisoner
               .
               'T
               is
               a
               great
               advantage
               to
               this
               Lord
               to
               choose
               his
               own
               time
               when
               he
               will
               please
               to
               answer
               our
               Evidence
               .
               We
               do
               know
               very
               well
               ,
               that
               in
               this
               Case
               there
               have
               been
               Attempts
               to
               Suborn
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               that
               we
               shall
               prove
               in
               due
               time
               ,
               and
               Attempts
               to
               destroy
               Witnesses
               too
               ;
               So
               that
               there
               hath
               been
               too
               much
               time
               lost
               already
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               to
               morrow
               is
               a
               very
               convenient
               time
               for
               him
               to
               make
               his
               Answer
               .
               And
               I
               must
               observe
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               the
               Prisoner
               hath
               gained
               his
               end
               of
               not
               making
               his
               Answer
               this
               day
               by
               raising
               an
               Objection
               ,
               which
               in
               my
               Thoughts
               carried
               no
               great
               weight
               in
               it
               ,
               though
               when
               it
               was
               made
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               were
               pleased
               to
               Adjourn
               upon
               it
               :
               But
               seeing
               he
               hath
               got
               his
               Point
               of
               deferring
               the
               making
               Answer
               till
               to
               morrow
               ,
               there
               can
               be
               no
               reason
               he
               should
               gain
               a
               further
               day
               ,
               since
               the
               Depositions
               may
               be
               ready
               by
               to
               morrow
               as
               well
               as
               by
               the
               next
               day
               .
               And
               therefore
               we
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               go
               on
               in
               the
               Tryal
               to
               morrow
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               shall
               know
               their
               Lordships
               pleasure
               when
               they
               are
               withdrawn
               .
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               that
               we
               should
               Adjourn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               This
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             So
             the
             Lords
             withdrew
             in
             their
             Order
             ,
             and
             the
             Commons
             went
             back
             to
             their
             House
             ,
             and
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
            
             resumed
             the
             Chair
             .
          
           
             A
             Message
             was
             sent
             from
             the
             Lords
             by
             Sir
             
               Timothy
               Baldwin
            
             and
             Sir
             
               Samuel
               Clark.
            
             
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               .
            
             
               The
               Lords
               have
               sent
               us
               to
               acquaint
               this
               House
               ,
               that
               they
               have
               ordered
               the
               Prisoner
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               to
               be
               brought
               to
               the
               Bar
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               to
               morrow
               morning
               at
               Ten
               of
               the
               Clock
               .
            
          
           
             And
             then
             the
             Commons
             Adjourned
             to
             Eight
             of
             the
             Clock
             next
             morning
             .
          
        
         
           
           
             The
             Third
             Day
             .
          
           
             
               Thursday
               ,
               December
            
             2.
             1680.
             
          
           
             AT
             the
             Hour
             of
             Ten
             in
             the
             Morning
             the
             Lords
             Adjourned
             into
             Westminster-Hall
             ,
             and
             returned
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             into
             the
             Court
             there
             erected
             ;
             and
             Mr.
             Speaker
             having
             left
             the
             Chair
             ,
             the
             Commons
             were
             seated
             as
             before
             :
             The
             Court
             being
             sat
             ,
             Proclamation
             for
             Silence
             was
             made
             ,
             and
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             commanded
             to
             bring
             his
             Prisoner
             to
             the
             Bar
             ,
             which
             being
             done
             ,
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             spake
             to
             him
             as
             followeth
             :
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               this
               is
               the
               time
               appointed
               to
               hear
               what
               your
               Lordship
               hath
               to
               say
               in
               your
               Defence
               ,
               and
               to
               call
               your
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               yesterday
               my
               Lord
               Viscount
               Stafford
               was
               pleased
               to
               make
               mention
               of
               an
               Affidavit
               of
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               taken
               before
               two
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               wherein
               he
               was
               pleased
               to
               say
               there
               was
               some
               Amendment
               made
               ,
               and
               so
               indeed
               we
               did
               then
               acknowledg
               there
               was
               .
               But
               he
               had
               a
               desire
               to
               see
               it
               notwithstanding
               our
               acknowledgment
               ,
               because
               he
               was
               informed
               that
               that
               which
               Turbervile
               swore
               then
               ,
               differed
               from
               what
               Turbervile
               swore
               yesterday
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               at
               that
               time
               we
               had
               not
               the
               Affidavit
               ,
               nor
               was
               it
               proper
               for
               us
               to
               produce
               it
               ,
               for
               indeed
               it
               remained
               in
               the
               Justice
               of
               Peace's
               Hands
               that
               took
               it
               ;
               but
               now
               that
               his
               Lordship
               may
               have
               full
               satisfaction
               ,
               and
               not
               only
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               but
               also
               all
               that
               are
               present
               at
               this
               Tryal
               .
               I
               do
               inform
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               that
               the
               Affidavit
               is
               in
               the
               hands
               of
               a
               Member
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               Sir
               
                 Will.
                 Poulteney
              
               by
               name
               ,
               and
               if
               his
               Lordship
               please
               ,
               he
               may
               have
               it
               produceed
               ,
               and
               make
               what
               use
               he
               can
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               extream
               Honourably
               and
               Worthily
               done
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               hath
               no
               manner
               of
               Exception
               left
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               I
               shall
               have
               occasion
               to
               use
               it
               ,
               I
               shall
               call
               for
               it
               ;
               but
               I
               would
               first
               say
               something
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ;
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               first
               give
               your
               Lordships
               thanks
               ,
               for
               granting
               me
               the
               liberty
               to
               come
               so
               late
               to
               Day
               ,
               I
               have
               had
               a
               little
               sleep
               upon
               it
               .
               Your
               Lordships
               heard
               yesterday
               ,
               when
               you
               had
               Dr.
               Oats
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               the
               first
               thing
               that
               he
               said
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               was
               to
               desire
               you
               would
               be
               pleased
               to
               leave
               him
               to
               his
               own
               method
               ;
               I
               beg
               of
               your
               Lordships
               the
               same
               favour
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               begin
               with
               the
               one
               or
               the
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               or
               with
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               as
               I
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               God
               forbid
               but
               you
               should
               take
               your
               own
               Method
               in
               your
               Defence
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               In
               order
               to
               which
               ,
               I
               desire
               first
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               may
               come
               to
               the
               Bar.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               call
               Turbervile
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               is
               there
               ,
               what
               say
               you
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               ask
               him
               but
               one
               Question
               ,
               and
               I
               hope
               I
               shall
               have
               occasion
               to
               ask
               him
               no
               more
               :
               When
               was
               the
               last
               time
               that
               he
               spoke
               with
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               hear
               right
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               :
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               asks
               when
               was
               the
               last
               time
               you
               spoke
               with
               his
               Lordship
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervile
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               in
               November
               1675.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               very
               much
               to
               say
               against
               his
               Evidence
               ;
               but
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               think
               him
               any
               Evidence
               against
               me
               ,
               or
               any
               body
               else
               .
               But
               I
               desire
               your
               Judgment
               ,
               whether
               I
               be
               not
               within
               the
               compass
               of
               the
               time
               limited
               by
               the
               Statute
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Express
               your self
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               for
               we
               do
               not
               understand
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               say
               more
               than
               I
               do
               ;
               the
               time
               which
               the
               Statute
               limits
               is
               six
               months
               ,
               but
               this
               is
               five
               years
               ;
               I
               desire
               the
               Statute
               may
               be
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Statute
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               The
               Statute
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordship
               pleases
               you
               shall
               have
               it
               read
               ,
               But
               your
               Lordship
               does
               not
               observe
               ,
               you
               are
               prosecuted
               and
               impeached
               of
               High
               Treason
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               the
               25
               th
               .
               of
               Edward
               the
               3
               d.
               not
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               ,
               made
               for
               the
               Safety
               of
               the
               Kings
               Person
               ,
               which
               limits
               the
               Prosecution
               of
               some
               Offences
               to
               be
               within
               six
               months
               ;
               but
               the
               Prosecution
               for
               Treason
               may
               be
               at
               any
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Does
               your
               Lordship
               say
               it
               may
               be
               at
               any
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               This
               truly
               does
               very
               much
               surprise
               me
               ,
               though
               I
               am
               wholly
               ignorant
               in
               matters
               of
               Law.
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               ever
               heard
               that
               no
               man
               can
               be
               prosecuted
               by
               that
               Statute
               but
               within
               so
               many
               days
               ,
               in
               one
               part
               of
               it
               Thirty
               Days
               ,
               in
               another
               six
               months
               ;
               and
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               that
               the
               Statute
               may
               be
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordship
               please
               ,
               the
               Statute
               shall
               be
               read
               ;
               if
               your
               Lordship
               desires
               the
               Clause
               of
               the
               Statute
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               ,
               which
               limits
               the
               Prosecution
               to
               be
               within
               six
               months
               ,
               that
               shall
               be
               read
               .
               But
               I
               conceive
               your
               Lordship
               is
               not
               accused
               upon
               that
               Statute
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               may
               know
               whether
               I
               am
               prosecuted
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               ,
               or
               upon
               what
               other
               Statute
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               the
               worthy
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ;
               Is
               my
               Lord
               prosecuted
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               M.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Not
               at
               all
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ▪
               he
               is
               not
               prosecuted
               upon
               that
               Statute
               ,
               but
               upon
               the
               Common
               Law
               ,
               and
               the
               25
               th
               .
               of
               Edward
               the
               3
               d.
               which
               was
               only
               Declarative
               of
               the
               Common
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               This
               is
               a
               point
               of
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               the
               point
               of
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Whether
               I
               can
               be
               prosecuted
               after
               so
               many
               days
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               The
               Law
               is
               very
               clear
               .
               If
               you
               were
               prosecuted
               upon
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               for
               any
               less
               Offence
               than
               Treason
               ,
               you
               could
               not
               be
               prosesecuted
               after
               six
               months
               ,
               but
               if
               you
               be
               prosecuted
               for
               Treason
               either
               upon
               the
               25
               th
               .
               of
               Edward
               the
               3
               d.
               or
               13.
               
               Car.
               2
               d.
               there
               is
               no
               time
               limited
               ,
               and
               God
               forbid
               there
               should
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               ,
               whether
               there
               be
               not
               a
               Statute
               ,
               I
               think
               't
               is
               in
               the
               Reign
               of
               Edward
               the
               6
               th
               .
               that
               sets
               the
               time
               ,
               after
               which
               no
               man
               shall
               be
               prosecuted
               for
               any
               thing
               of
               Treason
               ;
               I
               desire
               a
               quarter
               of
               an
               hours
               time
               to
               look
               into
               the
               Statute
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               my
               Lord
               ,
               let
               me
               read
               the
               Statute
               of
               Edward
               the
               6
               th
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               We
               know
               not
               of
               any
               such
               Statute
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               not
               say
               there
               is
               ,
               but
               I
               will
               say
               ,
               I
               cannot
               read
               if
               there
               be
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               my
               Lord
               does
               suppose
               he
               hath
               some
               kind
               of
               Objection
               in
               Law
               to
               make
               ,
               which
               he
               cannot
               make
               out
               of
               himself
               ;
               will
               it
               be
               amiss
               to
               let
               his
               Counsel
               make
               and
               propose
               the
               Question
               for
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               rather
               would
               have
               my
               Lord
               propose
               the
               Objection
               ;
               for
               your
               Lordships
               know
               ,
               till
               a
               matter
               of
               Law
               is
               proposed
               ,
               he
               cannot
               be
               admitted
               to
               have
               Counsel
               .
               If
               he
               desires
               time
               to
               recollect
               himself
               about
               the
               Objection
               ,
               we
               can't
               oppose
               it
               .
               But
               we
               desire
               that
               he
               may
               propose
               the
               Objection
               ,
               and
               after
               if
               it
               be
               any
               doubt
               in
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               assign
               him
               Counsel
               to
               be
               heard
               to
               speak
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               This
               would
               be
               a
               way
               for
               a
               Prisoner
               to
               have
               the
               Advantage
               of
               Counsel
               ,
               when
               they
               ought
               not
               to
               be
               allowed
               ;
               for
               't
               is
               but
               to
               say
               ,
               he
               hath
               some
               doubt
               which
               he
               cannot
               propose
               himself
               ,
               and
               so
               let
               in
               his
               Counsel
               to
               make
               Objections
               for
               him
               .
               If
               any
               Question
               of
               Law
               do
               arise
               ,
               and
               that
               Question
               is
               stated
               ,
               you
               will
               allow
               the
               Prisoner
               Counsel
               to
               argue
               it
               ,
               but
               at
               this
               rate
               he
               may
               make
               the
               like
               pretences
               in
               every
               part
               of
               his
               Defence
               ,
               and
               so
               obtain
               that
               Counsel
               shall
               manage
               his
               whole
               Defence
               for
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               suppose
               my
               Lord
               does
               intend
               an
               Objection
               as
               to
               the
               time
               of
               the
               Prosecution
               ,
               but
               he
               does
               not
               know
               how
               to
               make
               it
               .
               He
               supposes
               he
               is
               prosecuted
               
               after
               the
               six
               months
               ,
               which
               he
               thinks
               is
               the
               time
               limited
               for
               the
               Prosecution
               .
               But
               I
               pray
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               will
               your
               Lordship
               take
               time
               to
               recollect
               your self
               ,
               and
               make
               an
               Objection
               fit
               for
               Counsel
               to
               be
               heard
               upon
               ,
               and
               you
               shall
               have
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               I
               may
               have
               the
               Statute-Book
               with
               me
               ,
               for
               I
               have
               none
               my self
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               With
               all
               our
               hearts
               ,
               we
               do
               not
               oppose
               it
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             my
             Lord
             withdrew
             into
             the
             Room
             provided
             for
             him
             ,
             and
             within
             a
             quarter
             of
             an
             hour
             returned
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Say
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               confess
               I
               have
               been
               very
               much
               mistaken
               ever
               since
               I
               was
               first
               committed
               to
               the
               Tower
               :
               For
               I
               did
               conceive
               that
               they
               would
               have
               proceeded
               ,
               as
               I
               thought
               ,
               I
               was
               impeached
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King.
               I
               humbly
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               ,
               whether
               I
               ought
               or
               no
               ,
               to
               be
               prosecuted
               upon
               that
               Statute
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Gentlemen
               have
               told
               you
               already
               :
               They
               prosecute
               you
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               25
               th
               .
               of
               Edward
               the
               3
               d.
               and
               upon
               the
               Common
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               And
               they
               lay
               aside
               that
               Statute
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Statute
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               The
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ,
               once
               more
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               have
               declared
               already
               to
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               and
               if
               my
               Lord
               had
               looked
               well
               upon
               the
               Articles
               of
               Impeachment
               ,
               he
               could
               not
               have
               put
               that
               Question
               ,
               but
               would
               have
               found
               himself
               impeached
               for
               Treason
               at
               the
               Common
               Law
               ,
               declared
               by
               the
               25
               th
               .
               of
               Edward
               the
               3
               d.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               So
               then
               they
               lay
               that
               aside
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               We
               do
               not
               mention
               any
               Statute
               ,
               but
               we
               mention
               the
               Crime
               ,
               and
               that
               Crime
               is
               against
               the
               Common
               Law
               declared
               by
               the
               Statute
               ,
               to
               wit
               ,
               The
               attempting
               the
               King's
               Death
               ,
               and
               the
               Subversion
               of
               the
               Government
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               There
               is
               no
               doubt
               but
               the
               attempting
               the
               King's
               Death
               is
               a
               great
               and
               hainous
               Crime
               ,
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               find
               that
               in
               the
               Impeachment
               ,
               there
               is
               any
               Overt
               Act
               at
               all
               .
               And
               whether
               I
               shall
               answer
               to
               a
               Treason
               not
               proved
               by
               any
               Overt
               Act
               sworn
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               because
               your
               Lordships
               and
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               may
               not
               think
               that
               I
               propose
               these
               things
               out
               of
               a
               desire
               of
               delay
               ;
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               saved
               to
               me
               with
               all
               other
               points
               of
               Law
               ,
               I
               will
               go
               on
               to
               my
               proofs
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               all
               these
               things
               shall
               be
               saved
               to
               you
               ,
               pray
               let
               us
               hear
               your
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Since
               your
               Lordships
               hath
               granted
               me
               that
               ,
               be
               pleased
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               I
               begin
               with
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Set
               up
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordships
               please
               I
               may
               have
               Pen
               ,
               Ink
               and
               Paper
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               By
               all
               means
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
             
               (
               Which
               was
               given
               him
               .
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               May
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               said
               ,
               if
               I
               understand
               him
               aright
               ,
               (
               and
               I
               ask
               him
               again
               )
               that
               he
               knew
               something
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               15
               or
               16
               years
               ago
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               you
               hear
               the
               Question
               .
               Did
               not
               you
               say
               you
               knew
               of
               the
               Plot
               15
               or
               16
               years
               ago
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               say
               it
               ,
               and
               did
               explain
               my
               meaning
               in
               it
               .
               I
               did
               say
               there
               was
               among
               us
               such
               a
               preparation
               to
               be
               made
               against
               the
               King
               died
               ,
               of
               Arms
               and
               Money
               ,
               that
               neither
               should
               be
               wanting
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordship
               to
               ask
               what
               proportion
               of
               Arms
               was
               to
               be
               provided
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               proportion
               of
               Arms
               was
               to
               be
               provided
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               heard
               it
               nominated
               how
               many
               absolutely
               .
               I
               have
               heard
               of
               some
               Numbers
               .
               I
               heard
               of
               late
               of
               30000.
               that
               were
               to
               be
               raised
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               what
               the
               whole
               number
               in
               England
               was
               ,
               I
               have
               forgot
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               I
               have
               heard
               Mr.
               Gavan
               ,
               and
               some
               of
               the
               Priests
               say
               ,
               That
               if
               there
               was
               occasion
               ,
               they
               should
               have
               at
               least
               200000
               to
               assist
               them
               ,
               that
               was
               of
               Men
               ,
               and
               I
               suppose
               they
               had
               Arms
               as
               well
               as
               Men.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               If
               this
               were
               true
               which
               he
               says
               Mr.
               Gavan
               said
               ,
               that
               they
               were
               200000
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               what
               Men
               he
               ment
               ,
               what
               Religion
               they
               must
               be
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Religion
               were
               they
               of
               that
               were
               to
               come
               in
               and
               help
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               He
               did
               not
               name
               them
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               but
               I
               understood
               them
               ,
               and
               so
               I
               apprehend
               the
               Company
               would
               ,
               that
               they
               were
               Roman
               Catholicks
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               a
               strange
               thing
               that
               there
               should
               be
               200000
               Catholicks
               raised
               ,
               when
               there
               are
               not
               20●00
               in
               England
               that
               can
               bear
               Arms.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Good
               my
               Lord
               ,
               They
               might
               come
               from
               beyond
               sea
               ,
               and
               so
               they
               might
               be
               so
               many
               Roman
               Catholicks
               ,
               though
               there
               were
               not
               so
               many
               in
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               And
               he
               says
               not
               they
               were
               Roman
               Catholicks
               ,
               but
               he
               heard
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               There
               might
               be
               so
               many
               Roman
               Catholicks
               ,
               and
               such
               as
               should
               be
               with
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               hear
               15
               or
               16
               Years
               that
               I
               was
               one
               to
               be
               among
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Answer
               that
               Question
               :
               Did
               you
               hear
               then
               that
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               to
               be
               one
               among
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               remember
               it
               that
               I
               did
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               make
               this
               use
               of
               it
               :
               He
               tells
               you
               of
               a
               Plot
               16
               Years
               ago
               ,
               that
               200000
               Men
               in
               Arms
               were
               ready
               against
               the
               King's
               death
               .
               —
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               say
               so
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               be
               understood
               aright
               .
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               You
               say
               you
               heard
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               speak
               as
               to
               the
               number
               of
               Men
               what
               I
               heard
               of
               late
               at
               the
               Consults
               and
               Meetings
               within
               these
               two
               Years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               I
               speak
               of
               16
               Years
               ago
               ,
               what
               Number
               of
               Men
               was
               there
               to
               be
               raised
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               a
               general
               word
               that
               was
               amongst
               us
               ,
               That
               we
               must
               be
               provided
               against
               that
               time
               ,
               against
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               but
               no
               Number
               at
               all
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               This
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               under
               favour
               ,
               I
               conceive
               does
               not
               concern
               me
               .
               He
               tells
               you
               there
               was
               such
               a
               thing
               ,
               it
               might
               be
               so
               ,
               or
               it
               might
               not
               be
               so
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               concerned
               in
               it
               ,
               then
               't
               is
               out
               of
               Doors
               as
               to
               what
               concerns
               me
               :
               I
               conceive
               otherwise
               ,
               if
               the
               Gentlemen
               conceive
               otherwise
               they
               will
               say
               so
               .
               Then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               the
               next
               thing
               is
               ,
               How
               long
               ago
               it
               is
               since
               I
               first
               spake
               to
               him
               about
               this
               Plot
               ,
               and
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               he
               may
               mention
               time
               and
               place
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               hear
               the
               Question
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               The
               first
               time
               ,
               to
               my
               best
               remembrance
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               let
               us
               have
               no
               remembrance
               ,
               but
               let
               him
               swear
               positively
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               There
               is
               no
               mortal
               Man
               can
               swear
               otherwise
               than
               according
               to
               his
               Remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               When
               a
               mans
               Life
               and
               Honour
               ,
               and
               all
               he
               hath
               is
               at
               stake
               ,
               and
               indeed
               in
               Consequence
               every
               man
               in
               England
               is
               concerned
               if
               they
               swear
               not
               positively
               ,
               but
               still
               say
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               who
               can
               make
               a
               Defence
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               Go
               on
               and
               say
               as
               near
               as
               you
               can
               ,
               and
               be
               as
               particular
               as
               you
               can
               ,
               upon
               your
               Oath
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               That
               which
               I
               can
               positively
               affirm
               ,
               is
               ,
               It
               was
               about
               
                 August
                 ▪
              
               or
               September
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               said
               yesterday
               it
               was
               in
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               which
               are
               two
               Months
               .
               I
               beseech
               you
               what
               does
               he
               mean
               by
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               how
               long
               before
               the
               end
               of
               August
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               was
               it
               before
               the
               last
               day
               in
               August
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               be
               positive
               ,
               but
               it
               was
               either
               in
               one
               Month
               ,
               or
               the
               other
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               keep
               a
               Diary
               ,
               or
               else
               I
               would
               give
               your
               Lordships
               satisfaction
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               he
               may
               positively
               say
               whether
               in
               August
               or
               nor
               in
               August
               ,
               or
               whether
               in
               September
               or
               not
               in
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               dare
               not
               venture
               to
               swear
               that
               ,
               I
               dare
               not
               do
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Then
               saving
               my
               Exceptions
               to
               the
               incertainty
               of
               that
               afterwards
               ,
               I
               would
               ask
               him
               what
               day
               was
               it
               in
               September
               that
               I
               spoke
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               I
               remember
               one
               was
               either
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               does
               he
               say
               that
               was
               the
               first
               time
               he
               spoke
               with
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Jolm
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               my
               Lords
               ,
               they
               may
               not
               answer
               the
               Questions
               ,
               but
               the
               Witnesses
               ;
               they
               cry
               No
               ,
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               shall
               certainly
               have
               an
               answer
               to
               all
               the
               Questions
               you
               will
               ask
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               But
               when
               I
               ask
               they
               answer
               for
               them
               ,
               I
               would
               know
               whether
               that
               is
               the
               Course
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               not
               disquite
               your self
               for
               any
               thing
               that
               is
               said
               about
               you
               ,
               you
               shall
               have
               a
               fair
               hearing
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               cannot
               but
               be
               disquieted
               when
               I
               hear
               these
               learned
               Gentlemen
               make
               Answers
               to
               my
               Questions
               for
               the
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               Was
               the
               20.
               or
               the
               21.
               of
               September
               ,
               you
               speak
               of
               ,
               the
               first
               time
               you
               spoke
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               what
               day
               was
               it
               then
               I
               spoke
               first
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               was
               the
               day
               you
               first
               spoke
               to
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Truly
               my
               Lords
               I
               cannot
               remember
               so
               well
               as
               to
               tell
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               when
               my
               Lord
               came
               to
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               remember
               one
               Sunday
               in
               particular
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               tell
               what
               day
               of
               the
               month
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               Tixal
               in
               company
               of
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               and
               Father
               Evers
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               that
               any
               discourse
               passed
               between
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               that
               before
               or
               after
               the
               21.
               of
               September
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Both
               before
               and
               after
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               where
               such
               and
               such
               were
               present
               ,
               and
               the
               Kings
               Death
               determined
               ,
               I
               ask
               when
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               That
               was
               in
               September
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               positively
               the
               day
               ,
               but
               in
               September
               ,
               or
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               must
               acquiesce
               and
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordships
               to
               do
               what
               you
               please
               ;
               but
               if
               he
               does
               not
               name
               times
               nor
               places
               ,
               how
               can
               I
               make
               my
               Defence
               ?
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               say
               positively
               within
               five
               days
               of
               the
               one
               or
               of
               the
               other
               ;
               and
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               put
               it
               upon
               that
               ,
               if
               he
               say
               five
               days
               before
               the
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               five
               days
               in
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               which
               one
               would
               think
               is
               space
               enough
               ,
               that
               is
               ten
               days
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               do
               observe
               how
               far
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               goes
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               is
               no
               further
               positive
               than
               he
               does
               express
               himself
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               press
               this
               ,
               because
               it
               concerns
               me
               very
               much
               ,
               that
               he
               may
               be
               positive
               within
               five
               days
               over
               or
               under
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Can
               you
               remember
               whether
               it
               were
               within
               five
               days
               of
               the
               one
               ,
               or
               of
               the
               other
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Truly
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               cannot
               be
               positive
               ,
               if
               I
               had
               not
               made
               a
               particular
               Remark
               upon
               that
               of
               the
               20
               ▪
               or
               ▪
               the
               21.
               
               I
               could
               not
               have
               remembred
               that
               ;
               for
               I
               did
               not
               then
               intend
               to
               reveal
               the
               Plot
               ,
               or
               else
               I
               could
               have
               given
               you
               satisfaction
               in
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               hath
               an
               answer
               to
               it
               ,
               he
               cannot
               speak
               more
               positively
               to
               it
               than
               he
               does
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               then
               how
               is
               it
               possible
               I
               can
               make
               my
               Defence
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               kept
               no
               Journal
               :
               if
               I
               had
               I
               would
               be
               more
               positive
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               it
               was
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               I
               desire
               he
               will
               say
               whether
               it
               was
               the
               last
               week
               in
               August
               ,
               or
               the
               first
               week
               in
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               answers
               he
               cannot
               tell
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               must
               make
               what
               advantage
               you
               can
               of
               that
               Answer
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               can
               make
               no
               advantage
               of
               it
               unless
               he
               does
               speak
               positively
               to
               the
               time
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               I
               may
               know
               what
               is
               the
               end
               of
               August
               and
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               hear
               you
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               a
               man
               says
               the
               beginning
               of
               
                 June
                 I
              
               was
               at
               such
               a
               place
               ,
               how
               many
               days
               is
               the
               beginning
               ,
               and
               how
               many
               days
               the
               end
               of
               a
               Month
               ?
               How
               much
               time
               will
               your
               Lordships
               understand
               the
               meaning
               of
               that
               to
               be
               ?
               I
               am
               concerned
               extremely
               in
               the
               point
               of
               time
               ,
               for
               it
               is
               that
               which
               the
               whole
               Business
               depends
               upon
               ,
               I
               mean
               as
               to
               this
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               go
               on
               with
               your
               Evidence
               ,
               I
               know
               not
               how
               to
               give
               you
               an
               Answer
               ,
               what
               Judgment
               my
               Lords
               will
               make
               of
               it
               ,
               or
               how
               much
               they
               will
               understand
               by
               it
               ,
               till
               they
               are
               withdrawn
               ,
               they
               observe
               how
               much
               you
               Lordship
               insists
               upon
               it
               ,
               and
               will
               hear
               what
               the
               worthy
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               will
               answer
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               my
               whole
               business
               with
               this
               Fellow
               is
               concerned
               in
               a
               positive
               Answer
               to
               this
               Question
               ,
               I
               give
               him
               I
               think
               reasonable
               time
               to
               confine
               himself
               to
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               give
               a
               clear
               Answer
               to
               that
               anon
               ;
               but
               I
               am
               extremely
               concerned
               in
               this
               to
               know
               whether
               it
               was
               in
               August
               or
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               be
               concerned
               never
               so
               much
               at
               that
               ,
               the
               Witness
               can
               swear
               no
               more
               than
               he
               can
               swear
               .
               He
               says
               about
               the
               latter
               
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ;
               will
               your
               Lordship
               stand
               still
               for
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Well
               then
               I
               will
               go
               on
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               ;
               as
               for
               the
               matter
               of
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               
                 September
                 ,
                 I
              
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               I
               may
               ask
               Dugdale
               one
               Question
               ,
               whether
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               ,
               or
               the
               Five
               Jesuits
               he
               did
               not
               say
               the
               Consult
               was
               in
               August
               ,
               if
               he
               deny
               it
               ,
               I
               shall
               prove
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               my
               Lord
               asks
               whether
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Wakeman
               ,
               or
               of
               the
               Five
               Jesuits
               you
               did
               not
               say
               it
               was
               in
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               name
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               at
               Boscobel
               in
               August
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               that
               I
               did
               name
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               in
               any
               Consult
               in
               August
               positively
               ;
               but
               as
               I
               say
               now
               ,
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               .
               But
               I
               did
               name
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               at
               Boscobel
               in
               August
               ,
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               He
               did
               say
               I
               was
               at
               the
               Consult
               in
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               say
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               there
               ,
               I
               don't
               charge
               him
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               if
               any
               such
               thing
               was
               printed
               I
               have
               wrong
               done
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Then
               he
               says
               he
               had
               nothing
               to
               do
               with
               me
               till
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               in
               Sir
               George
               Wakeman's
               Tryal
               he
               did
               not
               say
               ,
               he
               was
               to
               receive
               Orders
               from
               me
               in
               June
               or
               July
               ,
               when
               I
               came
               into
               the
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               not
               you
               say
               at
               Sir
               George
               Wakeman's
               Tryal
               ,
               that
               you
               were
               to
               receive
               Orders
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               in
               June
               or
               July
               ,
               when
               he
               came
               into
               the
               Countrey
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordship
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               my
               Lords
               here
               ,
               whether
               when
               that
               Question
               was
               asked
               by
               my
               Lord
               
                 Stafford
                 ,
                 I
              
               did
               not
               say
               ,
               That
               the
               first
               time
               I
               entred
               into
               correspondency
               with
               the
               Consulters
               ,
               they
               told
               me
               ,
               my
               Lord
               was
               to
               come
               down
               then
               ,
               and
               I
               should
               receive
               Orders
               from
               him
               ?
               I
               had
               heard
               of
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               before
               ,
               but
               not
               to
               enter
               into
               any
               Consults
               with
               him
               ,
               till
               he
               came
               down
               ,
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               that
               Summer
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               me
               ,
               I
               desire
               him
               to
               answer
               positively
               ,
               whether
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               ,
               he
               did
               not
               say
               ,
               he
               was
               to
               receive
               Orders
               from
               me
               in
               June
               or
               July
               ,
               when
               I
               came
               into
               the
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               say
               so
               at
               Sir
               George
               Wakeman's
               Tryal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               believe
               I
               did
               say
               so
               ,
               for
               I
               had
               it
               from
               others
               ,
               and
               not
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               himself
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               June
               or
               
                 July
                 I
              
               was
               not
               in
               the
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               ,
               You
               were
               to
               come
               down
               ,
               not
               that
               you
               did
               come
               down
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               will
               let
               him
               do
               thus
               ,
               there
               is
               no
               man
               safe
               ,
               I
               shall
               begin
               the
               Tragedy
               and
               millions
               will
               follow
               .
               He
               swore
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               ,
               or
               that
               of
               those
               other
               persons
               ,
               That
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               where
               I
               was
               one
               ,
               in
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               swear
               so
               ;
               but
               in
               August
               or
               September
               ,
               or
               one
               of
               them
               ,
               as
               now
               I
               swear
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               shall
               prove
               it
               by
               the
               Book
               ,
               and
               Witnesses
               that
               were
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               Then
               they
               did
               me
               wrong
               by
               printing
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               never
               said
               of
               your
               Lordship
               otherwise
               than
               I
               do
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               
            
             
               I
               desire
               my
               Witnesses
               may
               be
               called
               to
               prove
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               conceive
               it
               is
               very
               material
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               does
               he
               deny
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               I
               do
               say
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               ▪
               at
               Tixal
               in
               August
               ,
               but
               I
               did
               not
               charge
               your
               Lordship
               positively
               to
               be
               there
               then
               ,
               nor
               with
               more
               than
               I
               do
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               think
               you
               did
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               witnesses
               to
               prove
               it
               .
               And
               't
               is
               impossible
               for
               any
               man
               living
               to
               defend
               himself
               ,
               if
               persons
               shall
               swear
               as
               they
               suppose
               ,
               think
               ,
               or
               remember
               .
               I
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               there
               in
               all
               the
               month
               of
               
                 August
                 ▪
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Does
               your
               Lordship
               intend
               to
               call
               any
               Witnesses
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               thought
               I
               had
               more
               Witnesses
               than
               I
               have
               .
               But
               I
               have
               two
               here
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               will
               hear
               them
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               swear
               I
               was
               at
               Tixal
               in
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               are
               they
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Daughter
               Winchester
               for
               one
               ,
               and
               a
               Lady
               that
               is
               my
               Kinswoman
               for
               another
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Let
               them
               stand
               up
               ,
               they
               are
               not
               to
               be
               sworn
               .
               You
               don't
               except
               against
               them
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               let
               him
               prove
               what
               he
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lady
               Marchioness
               of
               Winchester
               .
            
             
               He
               did
               swear
               that
               he
               was
               to
               receive
               his
               Orders
               from
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Madam
               ,
               your
               Ladyship
               is
               not
               upon
               your
               Oath
               ;
               but
               you
               are
               under
               all
               the
               obligations
               of
               Truth
               and
               Honour
               in
               the
               world
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lady
               March.
               Winch.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               by
               the
               Grace
               of
               God
               I
               will
               not
               speak
               an
               untrue
               word
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               this
               Ladies
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               my
               Daughter
               Winchester
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lady
               March.
               Winch.
               
            
             
               This
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               ,
               did
               say
               ,
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               ,
               That
               he
               was
               to
               receive
               Orders
               from
               my
               Lord
               in
               June
               or
               July
               ,
               when
               he
               was
               to
               come
               down
               ;
               and
               that
               my
               Lord
               was
               at
               a
               Consult
               at
               Tixal
               in
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               say
               positively
               in
               August
               ,
               or
               in
               August
               and
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lady
               March.
               Winch.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               he
               did
               not
               name
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               might
               say
               my
               Lord
               was
               to
               come
               down
               then
               ,
               but
               not
               that
               ever
               I
               said
               he
               was
               there
               but
               as
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               she
               says
               ,
               you
               did
               not
               name
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Here
               is
               another
               Lady
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Who
               is
               she
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Mrs.
               Howard
               ,
               Daugh●er
               to
               Sir
               
                 George
                 ●lount
              
               ,
               and
               married
               to
               Mr.
               Howard
               ,
               a
               Kinsman
               of
               mine
               ;
               she
               is
               now
               a
               Widow
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mrs.
               Howard
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
                 ,
                 Dugdale
              
               was
               asked
               to
               be
               positive
               in
               the
               Month
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               came
               down
               .
               And
               he
               said
               ,
               he
               came
               down
               in
               June
               or
               July
               ;
               but
               he
               said
               the
               Consult
               was
               in
               August
               ,
               wherein
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               Lady
               likewise
               says
               the
               same
               ,
               That
               you
               would
               not
               be
               positive
               as
               to
               June
               or
               July
               ;
               but
               as
               to
               August
               you
               were
               positive
               that
               my
               Lord
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               only
               said
               ,
               in
               August
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               ,
               and
               in
               June
               or
               July
               my
               Lord
               was
               to
               come
               down
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mrs.
               Howard
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               assure
               you
               we
               came
               to
               that
               Tryal
               on
               purpose
               to
               observe
               every
               word
               he
               said
               about
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               we
               have
               kept
               it
               in
               our
               memories
               ever
               since
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               say
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               to
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               I
               suppose
               there
               was
               a
               great
               many
               more
               at
               that
               Tryal
               than
               these
               two
               worthy
               Ladies
               ,
               and
               I
               suppose
               some
               of
               them
               may
               remember
               ,
               I
               said
               no
               more
               than
               I
               do
               now
               .
               I
               said
               then
               ,
               my
               Lord
               was
               to
               come
               down
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               and
               so
               I
               said
               several
               times
               ,
               but
               not
               positively
               that
               he
               was
               there
               till
               the
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               positively
               averr
               ,
               here
               are
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               that
               say
               ,
               he
               swore
               ,
               I
               was
               there
               at
               the
               Consult
               in
               August
               .
               Now
               it
               concerns
               me
               to
               prove
               ,
               that
               I
               was
               not
               there
               in
               August
               ,
               since
               he
               said
               absolutely
               I
               was
               there
               in
               August
               ;
               and
               I
               assure
               you
               I
               can
               prove
               I
               was
               not
               there
               not
               all
               the
               whole
               Month.
               In
               the
               beginning
               of
               August
               I
               came
               from
               London
               ,
               from
               my
               own
               House
               ;
               on
               Tuesday
               or
               Wednesday
               the
               6.
               of
               August
               ,
               I
               went
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Bellasis's
               ,
               and
               that
               night
               I
               went
               to
               
                 George
                 Porters
              
               ,
               the
               next
               night
               I
               went
               onwards
               towards
               Bath
               ;
               when
               I
               was
               there
               I
               went
               over
               and
               staid
               with
               my
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               the
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               ,
               there
               I
               staid
               two
               or
               three
               days
               ,
               and
               I
               went
               thence
               to
               another
               place
               hard
               by
               there
               ,
               and
               then
               I
               came
               back
               again
               to
               Bath
               ,
               and
               went
               back
               again
               afterwards
               to
               my
               Lords
               House
               ;
               and
               the
               first
               or
               second
               of
               September
               ,
               I
               went
               from
               my
               Lords
               House
               to
               London
               .
               Then
               it
               this
               be
               acknowledged
               ,
               I
               need
               say
               no
               more
               ;
               if
               not
               ,
               I
               'll
               prove
               it
               by
               sufficient
               Witnesses
               :
               So
               then
               I
               was
               not
               there
               the
               whole
               Month
               of
               August
               ,
               and
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               he
               says
               he
               spoke
               with
               me
               .
               I
               was
               not
               there
               till
               the
               12.
               of
               September
               .
               Now
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               how
               that
               could
               possibly
               be
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               .
               I
               submit
               to
               you
               ,
               whether
               then
               he
               be
               a
               Witness
               fit
               to
               be
               heard
               ,
               that
               shall
               sweat
               positively
               what
               hath
               no
               colour
               of
               truth
               in
               it
               ,
               I
               also
               leave
               to
               you
               .
               And
               if
               they
               object
               I
               was
               not
               where
               I
               say
               I
               was
               in
               
                 August
                 ,
                 I
              
               will
               prove
               it
               .
               And
               for
               the
               20.
               and
               21.
               of
               September
               ,
               I
               do
               own
               something
               of
               that
               ,
               and
               I
               shall
               prove
               to
               your
               Lordships
               what
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               what
               Witnesses
               you
               please
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Daughter
               proves
               when
               I
               went
               out
               of
               Town
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lady
               March.
               Winch.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               on
               a
               Tuesday
               my
               Father
               went
               to
               my
               Lord
               Bellasis
               ,
               he
               dined
               there
               and
               then
               went
               on
               to
               
                 George
                 Porters
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               That
               I
               was
               at
               
                 Bath
                 I
              
               shall
               call
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               should
               prove
               when
               you
               first
               came
               to
               Tixal
               ,
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Will
               that
               satisfie
               your
               Lordship
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Me
               ;
               'T
               is
               not
               me
               you
               are
               to
               satisfie
               ,
               but
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Then
               I
               do
               own
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               came
               the
               first
               time
               the
               12
               th
               .
               of
               September
               to
               Tixal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               was
               the
               first
               day
               you
               were
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               That
               Year
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Prove
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Does
               he
               deny
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               deny
               that
               my
               Lord
               came
               first
               to
               Tixal
               the
               12.
               of
               September
               ?
               Or
               do
               you
               know
               he
               was
               there
               before
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               positively
               spoke
               to
               no
               day
               ,
               but
               only
               to
               the
               21.
               or
               20.
               of
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Where
               is
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               
               Worcester's
               Servant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               it
               will
               be
               best
               for
               your
               Lordship
               to
               produce
               all
               the
               Witnesses
               you
               have
               ,
               and
               not
               to
               leave
               any
               thing
               undone
               that
               you
               can
               prove
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               But
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               may
               ask
               one
               Question
               ,
               if
               I
               shall
               name
               any
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Peers
               as
               my
               Witnesses
               ,
               does
               that
               exempt
               them
               from
               being
               Judges
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               If
               your
               Lordship
               have
               any
               Witnesses
               among
               any
               of
               my
               Lords
               here
               ,
               they
               may
               very
               well
               testifie
               for
               you
               ,
               and
               yet
               remain
               still
               in
               the
               capacity
               of
               your
               Judges
               :
               for
               my
               Lord
               of
               Strafford
               had
               a
               great
               many
               Witnesses
               that
               were
               Peers
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               We
               do
               not
               oppose
               it
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               call
               your
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               
            
             
               There
               is
               no
               place
               appointed
               for
               them
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               could
               not
               have
               them
               ready
               here
               ;
               I
               have
               sent
               for
               them
               ;
               I
               have
               a
               throng
               of
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               They
               will
               open
               the
               way
               ,
               and
               we
               will
               stay
               for
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               ,
               that
               as
               Yesterday
               ,
               when
               the
               Witnesses
               were
               sworn
               against
               me
               ,
               mine
               did
               not
               hear
               what
               they
               said
               ,
               so
               I
               desire
               when
               my
               Witnesses
               come
               ,
               theirs
               may
               not
               be
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               with
               your
               Lordships
               Pardon
               ,
               it
               was
               not
               well
               done
               that
               your
               Witnesses
               were
               not
               there
               ;
               but
               if
               Witnesses
               be
               to
               confront
               one
               another
               ,
               shall
               they
               not
               hear
               what
               one
               another
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               so
               clear
               in
               every
               thing
               ,
               I
               will
               dispute
               no
               little
               matters
               .
            
             
               Then
               my
               Lords
               Witness
               stood
               up
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               this
               mans
               name
               you
               call
               now
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Indeed
               my
               Lord
               I
               ▪
               don't
               know
               .
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               My
               Name
               is
               Bonny
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Does
               your
               Lordship
               call
               this
               man
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               are
               not
               upon
               your
               Oath
               ,
               but
               you
               are
               to
               look
               that
               a
               strict
               account
               will
               be
               taken
               of
               what
               you
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               know
               where
               this
               Witness
               lives
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               I
               live
               in
               Exeter-street
               ,
               by
               Exeter
               Exchange
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               declare
               it
               ,
               I
               know
               him
               not
               ,
               but
               I
               am
               told
               he
               can
               witness
               for
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Christian
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               Thomas
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Profession
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               I
               live
               as
               Clerk
               of
               the
               Kitchin
               to
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               A
               Protestant
               ,
               one
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               humbly
               move
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               When
               I
               asked
               Mr.
               Smith
               the
               first
               day
               ,
               where
               he
               was
               made
               a
               Priest
               ,
               a
               Gentleman
               said
               ,
               he
               was
               not
               bound
               to
               answer
               any
               thing
               against
               himself
               that
               might
               make
               him
               Criminal
               .
               I
               desire
               that
               the
               Question
               may
               not
               be
               put
               to
               my
               Witnesses
               what
               Religion
               they
               are
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Gentleman
               will
               not
               offer
               to
               ask
               any
               Question
               that
               may
               make
               a
               man
               accuse
               himself
               ;
               but
               my
               Lord
               ,
               a
               Papist
               or
               not
               a
               Papist
               is
               not
               so
               penal
               as
               a
               Priest
               or
               no
               Priest
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               To
               acknowledge
               a
               mans
               self
               a
               Papist
               ,
               is
               not
               to
               make
               him
               a
               Criminal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               does
               your
               Lordship
               call
               this
               Witness
               for
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               To
               prove
               when
               I
               was
               at
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcesters
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               when
               was
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcesters
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               In
               August
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               it
               perfectly
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               Very
               well
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               day
               of
               August
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               The
               17.
               of
               August
               ,
               which
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               keeps
               as
               his
               Wedding
               Day
               every
               Year
               ,
               and
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               Country
               are
               invited
               thither
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               then
               at
               Bath
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               was
               pleased
               to
               send
               his
               Coach
               for
               him
               to
               be
               present
               there
               that
               day
               ;
               there
               he
               staid
               that
               day
               and
               the
               next
               day
               ,
               and
               then
               returned
               on
               Monday
               .
               And
               in
               the
               same
               month
               ,
               the
               31.
               of
               August
               ,
               my
               Lord
               came
               again
               from
               Bath
               to
               Badmin●on
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               
               Worcester's
               ,
               and
               upon
               the
               Monday
               after
               returned
               for
               London
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               was
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bonny
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               the
               2.
               he
               went
               to
               London
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               Genlemen
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Call
               another
               Witness
               then
               .
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               this
               mans
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Thomas
               .
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Thomas
               White
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Thomas
               what
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               I
               live
               with
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               at
               Badminton
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               —
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
             
               My
               
                 Lord
                 Steward
              
               ,
               I
               have
               only
               this
               to
               say
               ▪
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               desired
               that
               his
               Witnesses
               might
               not
               be
               asked
               what
               Religion
               they
               were
               of
               ,
               but
               I
               desire
               all
               my
               Servants
               may
               be
               asked
               ,
               for
               I
               keep
               none
               but
               Protestants
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               A
               Protestant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               require
               it
               for
               them
               ;
               I
               know
               my
               Lord
               keeps
               none
               but
               Protestants
               ,
               but
               I
               asked
               it
               for
               others
               of
               my
               Witnesses
               ,
               that
               may
               come
               and
               be
               startled
               at
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               when
               was
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               
               Worcester's
               House
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               The
               17.
               of
               August
               (
               78.
               )
               I
               fetched
               him
               from
               Bath
               ,
               being
               my
               Lords
               Wedding
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               fetched
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               place
               do
               you
               serve
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               in
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               As
               Coachman
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               he
               there
               afterwards
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               Yes
               he
               was
               ,
               but
               I
               can't
               remember
               the
               day
               ,
               only
               this
               being
               a
               remarkable
               day
               I
               can
               remember
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               carry
               my
               Lord
               from
               thence
               towards
               London
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               White
               .
            
             
               The
               second
               of
               September
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Gentlemen
               ,
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               think
               this
               is
               so
               clear
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               need
               to
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               further
               with
               more
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               whom
               you
               please
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               as
               many
               as
               you
               think
               fit
               ,
               they
               shall
               be
               heard
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               One
               more
               then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Richard
               Bevan
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               do
               you
               live
               with
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bevan
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               Groom
               to
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               VVorcester
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bevan
               .
            
             
               A
               Protestant
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               when
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               at
               the
               Marquess
               of
               
               Worcester's
               House
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bevan
               ,
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               time
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bevan
               .
            
             
               The
               17.
               of
               August
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               any
               other
               day
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Bevan
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               there
               that
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               desire
               my
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               may
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               whether
               his
               men
               have
               said
               true
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               remember
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               pleased
               to
               do
               me
               the
               Honour
               ,
               to
               come
               upon
               my
               Wedding
               day
               from
               the
               Bath
               ,
               and
               dine
               with
               me
               ,
               as
               most
               Persons
               of
               Quality
               that
               are
               of
               my
               acquaintance
               ,
               and
               happen
               to
               be
               at
               the
               Bath
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               are
               pleased
               to
               do
               .
               And
               as
               most
               of
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               within
               such
               a
               distance
               do
               also
               .
               (
               And
               that
               day
               is
               the
               17.
               of
               August
               )
               I
               think
               he
               was
               there
               once
               or
               twice
               after
               ,
               from
               the
               Bath
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               tell
               precisely
               the
               days
               ;
               but
               that
               particular
               day
               I
               remember
               ,
               because
               it
               was
               my
               Wedding
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Can
               your
               Lordship
               remember
               when
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               went
               to
               London
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Marq.
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
             
               Truly
               I
               cannot
               tell
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               not
               after
               that
               ,
               lend
               my
               Lord
               your
               Coach
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Marq.
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               did
               ,
               to
               carry
               him
               as
               far
               as
               Sandy-lane
               ,
               on
               the
               Road
               to
               London
               ;
               but
               the
               particular
               day
               I
               remember
               not
               ;
               but
               one
               of
               the
               persons
               examined
               (
               who
               was
               then
               my
               Clerk
               of
               the
               Kitchin
               )
               must
               needs
               know
               ,
               because
               he
               books
               every
               day
               ,
               who
               is
               in
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               believe
               what
               he
               has
               said
               is
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               I
               desire
               may
               come
               again
               .
               I
               conceive
               I
               have
               made
               it
               plain
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               That
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               did
               swear
               ,
               that
               in
               August
               there
               was
               a
               Consult
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ,
               where
               I
               was
               ,
               and
               I
               conceive
               it
               is
               also
               clear
               that
               in
               August
               I
               was
               not
               there
               ;
               and
               then
               if
               it
               were
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               that
               could
               not
               be
               neither
               ,
               for
               I
               came
               not
               down
               to
               Tixall
               till
               the
               12.
               
               I
               beseech
               you
               to
               ask
               him
               when
               I
               offered
               him
               the
               Five
               Hundred
               Pounds
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               I
               think
               he
               says
               it
               was
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               was
               the
               time
               my
               Lord
               offered
               you
               the
               Five
               hundred
               pound
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               about
               that
               time
               ,
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               September
               to
               my
               remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               said
               positively
               before
               ,
               it
               was
               one
               of
               those
               two
               days
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordship
               to
               ask
               him
               where
               it
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               was
               that
               offer
               made
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               In
               my
               Lords
               lodging
               chamber
               at
               Tixall
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               one
               Question
               more
               ,
               I
               desire
               you
               Lordship
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               what
               day
               the
               Race
               was
               at
               
               Etching-Hill
               ,
               between
               Sir
               John
               Crew
               's
               man
               and
               Lazinby
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               If
               it
               please
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               I
               do
               conceive
               it
               was
               about
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               pray
               he
               may
               answer
               positively
               ,
               for
               if
               you
               please
               I
               will
               tell
               you
               how
               it
               was
               .
               It
               is
               very
               true
               the
               20.
               of
               September
               this
               fellow
               was
               in
               my
               chamber
               ,
               and
               I
               shall
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               some
               little
               discourse
               about
               it
               ,
               and
               my
               reasons
               why
               :
               First
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               to
               permit
               me
               to
               let
               you
               know
               ,
               that
               this
               fellow
               did
               serve
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               in
               the
               quality
               of
               a
               Bailiff
               .
               And
               I
               never
               thought
               him
               to
               be
               an
               honest
               man
               ,
               he
               was
               a
               mean
               Servant
               ,
               and
               when
               the
               other
               Servants
               waited
               but
               till
               the
               second
               Course
               came
               in
               ,
               he
               staid
               till
               the
               Coach-man
               and
               the
               Groom
               went
               to
               Dinner
               ,
               and
               eat
               with
               them
               .
               I
               profess
               before
               God
               it
               is
               true
               as
               that
               the
               Sun
               shines
               ,
               I
               have
               often
               and
               often
               ,
               I
               cannot
               tell
               how
               many
               times
               ,
               when
               I
               have
               been
               very
               dry
               at
               my
               Lords
               Table
               ,
               and
               seen
               him
               by
               me
               ,
               not
               called
               for
               Drink
               ,
               I
               did
               detest
               him
               as
               so
               mean
               a
               Knave
               ,
               that
               I
               often
               refused
               to
               take
               Drink
               at
               his
               hands
               .
               And
               now
               for
               me
               to
               offer
               this
               f●llow
               five
               hundred
               pounds
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               think
               your
               Lordship
               says
               he
               was
               Bailiff
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               I
               knew
               him
               to
               be
               an
               errant
               Knave
               ,
               and
               a
               great
               Gamester
               at
               Races
               and
               such
               things
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               would
               you
               have
               offered
               five
               hundred
               pounds
               to
               an
               honest
               man
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               You
               said
               you
               never
               saw
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               S.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               said
               I
               had
               seen
               him
               ,
               but
               now
               I
               did
               not
               know
               him
               by
               his
               Peruke
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               not
               know
               him
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               profess
               I
               did
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Why
               your
               Lordship
               was
               a
               going
               to
               shew
               that
               the
               Race
               at
               
               Etching-Hill
               was
               upon
               the
               2●
               .
               of
               September
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordship
               confesses
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               speak
               with
               you
               on
               the
               20.
               of
               September
               in
               your
               chamber
               ;
               and
               Dugdale
               says
               ,
               this
               day
               was
               the
               very
               offer
               made
               him
               of
               five
               hundred
               pounds
               to
               kill
               the
               King.
               What
               do
               you
               say
               Dugdale
               ,
               were
               you
               at
               the
               Race
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               was
               with
               my
               Lord
               at
               the
               Race
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               my
               Lord
               speak
               with
               you
               before
               he
               went
               or
               after
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               Before
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               That
               morning
               in
               his
               chamber
               ▪
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               it
               was
               that
               very
               morning
               ,
               before
               he
               went
               to
               the
               Race
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               own
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               thus
               far
               ,
               he
               was
               in
               my
               chamber
               that
               morning
               ;
               but
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               can
               prove
               what
               I
               say
               to
               you
               .
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               that
               20.
               of
               September
               in
               the
               morning
               ,
               I
               was
               in
               my
               bed
               ,
               and
               there
               comes
               a
               Servant
               of
               mine
               that
               hath
               served
               twelve
               or
               fourteen
               years
               ,
               and
               he
               comes
               in
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               says
               ,
               Yonder
               is
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               very
               desirous
               to
               go
               to
               this
               Race
               ;
               it
               seems
               he
               says
               he
               went
               along
               with
               me
               to
               this
               Race
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               I
               went
               either
               before
               or
               after
               ,
               or
               when
               you
               went
               to
               the
               Race
               ,
               for
               I
               was
               with
               you
               at
               the
               Race
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Whether
               he
               went
               with
               you
               ,
               or
               no
               ,
               is
               not
               the
               point
               ,
               but
               whether
               he
               was
               in
               your
               chamber
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               the
               point
               ,
               for
               he
               said
               just
               now
               ,
               he
               went
               with
               me
               ,
               as
               I
               apprehended
               him
               .
               But
               I
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               my
               Servant
               came
               and
               told
               me
               ,
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               desires
               that
               you
               will
               ask
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               leave
               that
               he
               may
               go
               before
               to
               the
               Race
               ,
               my
               Lord
               is
               angry
               with
               him
               already
               for
               his
               medling
               in
               Races
               ,
               and
               he
               dare
               not
               ask
               himself
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               a
               little
               concerned
               in
               the
               Race
               ,
               for
               I
               had
               betted
               some
               money
               ,
               and
               I
               thought
               with
               my self
               ,
               should
               I
               ask
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               leave
               for
               him
               to
               go
               ▪
               my
               Lord
               will
               not
               deny
               me
               ,
               but
               perhaps
               will
               take
               it
               ill
               to
               be
               asked
               ;
               so
               I
               was
               not
               over
               willing
               to
               do
               it
               .
               But
               I
               bid
               my
               Servant
               call
               him
               in
               ,
               and
               when
               he
               came
               ,
               I
               asked
               him
               some
               foolish
               Questions
               about
               the
               Race
               ,
               as
               who
               he
               thought
               would
               win
               ,
               and
               the
               like
               ;
               but
               I
               told
               him
               I
               would
               get
               leave
               of
               my
               Lord
               for
               him
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               ,
               My
               Lord
               I
               am
               sending
               my
               Servant
               before
               to
               the
               place
               of
               the
               Race
               ,
               but
               I
               am
               afraid
               he
               does
               not
               well
               know
               the
               way
               ,
               shall
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               go
               along
               with
               him
               ?
               My
               Lord
               gave
               him
               leave
               to
               go
               ;
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               dressed
               me
               ,
               and
               did
               not
               speak
               one
               tittle
               more
               to
               this
               Dugdale
               ,
               but
               he
               went
               away
               before
               ,
               and
               I
               was
               hardly
               or
               but
               just
               drest
               when
               he
               was
               gone
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               pray
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               was
               your
               Lordship
               at
               no
               time
               alone
               with
               him
               in
               your
               chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               never
               since
               I
               was
               born
               ,
               never
               in
               all
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               !
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               my
               Servants
               use
               to
               come
               for
               him
               ,
               I
               profess
               it
               is
               all
               false
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               that
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               in
               my
               chamber
               ,
               and
               busie
               when
               my
               Lord
               sent
               for
               me
               that
               morning
               ;
               and
               it
               was
               either
               by
               his
               Page
               or
               one
               that
               waits
               on
               him
               in
               his
               chamber
               ;
               I
               went
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               the
               Page
               was
               in
               the
               chamber
               ,
               and
               he
               ordered
               him
               to
               go
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               declare
               and
               averr
               to
               your
               Lordships
               he
               was
               in
               the
               Hall
               or
               the
               next
               room
               and
               desired
               to
               come
               in
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               is
               the
               Page
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               This
               fellow
               was
               but
               a
               poor
               Boy
               found
               at
               the
               Door
               ,
               then
               he
               was
               a
               Thresher
               ,
               and
               now
               a
               Witness
               for
               the
               King.
               
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             my
             Lord
             
             Stafford's
             man
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               My
               Name
               is
               Furnese
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               the
               day
               of
               the
               Race
               at
               
               Etching-Hill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               Dugdale
               was
               in
               your
               Lords
               chamber
               that
               morning
               .
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               whether
               your
               Lord
               did
               bid
               you
               go
               out
               or
               no
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               he
               did
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Were
               you
               there
               all
               the
               while
               Dugdale
               was
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               him
               whether
               I
               sent
               for
               Dugdale
               ,
               or
               he
               desired
               to
               speak
               to
               〈◊〉
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               my
               Lord
               send
               for
               Dugdale
               ,
               or
               did
               he
               come
               to
               you
               to
               speak
               to
               my
               Lord
               for
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               Dugdale
               spoke
               to
               me
               first
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               did
               he
               say
               to
               you
               ,
               pray
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               about
               eight
               or
               nine
               of
               the
               clock
               in
               the
               morning
               ,
               I
               came
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Lords
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               I
               came
               through
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Hall
               ,
               and
               coming
               through
               ,
               I
               met
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               coming
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               said
               ,
               he
               had
               one
               favour
               to
               desire
               of
               me
               .
               He
               said
               ,
               he
               would
               fain
               go
               to
               the
               Race
               ,
               but
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               how
               to
               go
               ,
               for
               my
               Lord
               is
               very
               angry
               with
               me
               ,
               and
               if
               I
               should
               ask
               him
               ,
               he
               would
               be
               worse
               ,
               for
               he
               is
               displeased
               that
               I
               have
               medled
               so
               far
               in
               these
               matters
               already
               :
               Therefore
               I
               desire
               some
               means
               may
               be
               used
               that
               I
               may
               go
               ,
               and
               I
               desire
               that
               you
               would
               speak
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               to
               get
               leave
               for
               me
               to
               go
               ;
               for
               Mr.
               Fox
               is
               there
               ,
               and
               hath
               a
               great
               deal
               of
               money
               in
               his
               hands
               ,
               and
               divers
               people
               will
               give
               mony
               to
               bett
               ;
               and
               so
               it
               will
               be
               a
               great
               loss
               and
               prejudice
               to
               me
               not
               to
               go
               .
               So
               I
               did
               promise
               him
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               went
               into
               my
               Lords
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               ;
               and
               when
               I
               had
               spoke
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               my
               Lord
               bid
               him
               come
               in
               ,
               and
               when
               he
               came
               in
               ,
               my
               Lord
               asked
               him
               several
               Questions
               about
               the
               Race
               ;
               my
               Lord
               asked
               him
               what
               hopes
               he
               had
               ,
               for
               he
               said
               ,
               a
               great
               deal
               of
               money
               was
               laid
               by
               several
               people
               ;
               he
               replyed
               ,
               he
               could
               win
               ,
               but
               he
               wanted
               money
               to
               bett
               ;
               says
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               will
               bett
               Twenty
               pound
               for
               Staffordshire
               sake
               though
               I
               were
               sure
               to
               lose
               .
               And
               then
               after
               some
               discourse
               to
               that
               purpose
               ,
               my
               Lord
               told
               him
               ,
               he
               would
               speak
               to
               his
               Lord.
               After
               my
               Lord
               was
               drest
               ,
               he
               went
               out
               of
               his
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               went
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               to
               ask
               him
               leave
               for
               Dugdale
               ;
               and
               my
               Lord
               bid
               me
               make
               my self
               ready
               to
               go
               to
               the
               Race
               .
               About
               nine
               or
               ten
               of
               the
               clock
               I
               was
               ready
               to
               go
               ,
               and
               coming
               down
               the
               back
               stairs
               ,
               my
               Lord
               met
               me
               ;
               go
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               to
               
               Etching-Hill
               ,
               and
               see
               what
               Bets
               there
               are
               ,
               and
               take
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               with
               you
               to
               shew
               you
               the
               way
               ,
               for
               I
               have
               asked
               his
               Lord
               leave
               for
               him
               to
               go
               .
               So
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               went
               along
               with
               me
               to
               the
               Stable
               ,
               and
               took
               out
               his
               Horse
               ;
               mine
               was
               not
               ready
               ,
               but
               I
               overtook
               him
               in
               half
               a
               mile
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               eleven
               of
               the
               clock
               ere
               we
               were
               at
               Ridgley
               .
               I
               asked
               some
               questions
               about
               one
               Mr.
               Gerard
               ;
               and
               I
               think
               about
               Twelve
               of
               the
               Clock
               we
               were
               at
               the
               Race
               ,
               and
               I
               staid
               till
               One
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Fox
               ,
               who
               was
               a
               party
               concerned
               in
               the
               Race
               ,
               and
               there
               were
               several
               Betts
               laid
               ;
               I
               was
               watchfnl
               when
               my
               Lord
               should
               come
               ,
               lest
               he
               should
               want
               me
               :
               So
               I
               left
               them
               ,
               and
               went
               to
               the
               Room
               where
               my
               Lord
               was
               to
               dine
               ;
               and
               when
               I
               went
               to
               my
               Lord
               I
               left
               him
               betting
               .
               About
               2
               of
               the
               Clock
               the
               Lords
               and
               Gentlemen
               all
               went
               to
               Dinner
               (
               that
               were
               there
               )
               and
               when
               we
               had
               half
               dined
               ,
               
               betwixt
               two
               and
               three
               ,
               Dugdale
               came
               in
               ,
               and
               we
               ask'd
               him
               how
               the
               wagers
               went
               ?
               he
               said
               he
               would
               bet
               Gold
               to
               Silver
               if
               he
               had
               it
               ,
               but
               he
               had
               betted
               away
               all
               his
               Money
               .
               I
               know
               not
               how
               much
               .
               So
               there
               was
               a
               Gentleman
               that
               was
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               one
               
                 George
                 Hobson
              
               by
               name
               ,
               he
               lent
               him
               two
               Guineys
               and
               odd
               Money
               ,
               and
               I
               lent
               him
               some
               forty
               or
               fifty
               Shillings
               out
               of
               my
               own
               Pocket
               ,
               which
               I
               told
               him
               I
               would
               not
               lend
               unless
               he
               would
               give
               it
               me
               at
               the
               Hill
               again
               ,
               before
               the
               Race
               began
               ,
               because
               I
               was
               fearful
               my
               Lord
               should
               go
               to
               Stafford
               again
               ,
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               that
               night
               .
               About
               4
               or
               5
               a
               Clock
               I
               went
               up
               to
               the
               Race
               ,
               and
               demanded
               my
               Money
               ,
               and
               he
               paid
               it
               me
               before
               the
               Race
               begun
               ,
               and
               after
               the
               Race
               was
               done
               I
               lost
               him
               .
               My
               Lord
               went
               home
               ,
               and
               I
               waited
               on
               him
               .
               This
               was
               about
               5
               or
               6
               ,
               and
               about
               the
               mid-way
               towards
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               House
               he
               went
               into
               the
               Coach
               ,
               and
               I
               got
               on
               Horseback
               ,
               and
               we
               got
               home
               about
               6
               or
               7
               of
               the
               Clock
               as
               I
               suppose
               .
               But
               at
               night
               after
               Supper
               I
               enquired
               for
               Dugdale
               ,
               how
               he
               took
               his
               loosings
               ,
               and
               how
               he
               did
               after
               it
               ?
               They
               told
               me
               he
               was
               gone
               to
               Bed
               ,
               so
               I
               saw
               him
               no
               more
               that
               night
               .
               The
               next
               morning
               my
               Lord
               bid
               me
               come
               betimes
               ,
               for
               he
               would
               go
               to
               Stafford
               that
               morning
               ,
               where
               we
               dined
               ,
               at
               Mr.
               
               Abden's
               ,
               and
               from
               thence
               took
               our
               way
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Lords
               own
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Now
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               to
               ask
               this
               Boy
               ,
               whether
               I
               bid
               him
               go
               and
               call
               Dugdale
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               leave
               him
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               bid
               you
               ,
               Mr.
               Furnese
               ,
               go
               and
               dress
               your self
               ,
               and
               make
               you
               ready
               for
               the
               Race
               ,
               did
               you
               not
               leave
               Dugdale
               behind
               you
               in
               the
               Chamber
               when
               you
               went
               to
               dress
               your self
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               Dugdale
               was
               gone
               thence
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               was
               gone
               too
               ,
               before
               me
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               still
               ask
               you
               the
               Question
               ,
               (
               you
               are
               upon
               an
               Obligation
               very
               great
               ,
               as
               much
               as
               if
               you
               were
               upon
               your
               O●th
               )
               whether
               you
               were
               in
               my
               Lords
               Chamber
               before
               Dugdale
               came
               in
               ,
               and
               staid
               till
               after
               he
               went
               out
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               And
               whether
               I
               bid
               him
               go
               out
               or
               no
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               there
               before
               Dugdale
               went
               in
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               He
               went
               along
               with
               me
               in
               ,
               I
               conducted
               him
               in
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               stay
               all
               the
               while
               Dugdale
               was
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               As
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               I
               staid
               there
               all
               the
               while
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ask
               him
               positively
               ,
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               there
               all
               the
               while
               Dugdale
               staid
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               say
               positively
               how
               long
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               you
               are
               upon
               your
               Oath
               ,
               he
               says
               he
               came
               in
               along
               with
               you
               ,
               and
               you
               went
               out
               of
               the
               Chamber
               before
               him
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               there
               all
               the
               while
               you
               were
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               positive
               which
               of
               my
               Lord's
               Servants
               it
               was
               that
               came
               for
               me
               ,
               but
               one
               it
               was
               .
               But
               when
               I
               came
               into
               the
               Chamber
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               my
               Lord
               was
               getting
               up
               ,
               and
               he
               charged
               them
               both
               to
               go
               sorth
               ,
               and
               the
               Room
               was
               clear
               ,
               and
               I
               saw
               no
               body
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               my
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               never
               bid
               me
               go
               forth
               that
               day
               ,
               nor
               any
               else
               in
               my
               life
               when
               any
               was
               in
               the
               room
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               Mr.
               Furnese
               was
               pleased
               to
               say
               ,
               I
               would
               bett
               Gold
               to
               Silver
               ,
               but
               in
               that
               he
               was
               mistaken
               ,
               for
               the
               odds
               was
               quite
               six
               to
               four
               against
               us
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Well
               we
               are
               not
               upon
               the
               Race
               now
               ,
               or
               the
               Wagers
               laid
               there
               .
               But
               ,
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               will
               you
               ask
               this
               man
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               have
               none
               to
               ask
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Tho.
               Lee.
               
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               where
               he
               lives
               now
               ,
               what
               Country-man
               he
               is
               ,
               and
               what
               Religion
               he
               is
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Whom
               do
               you
               serve
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               live
               with
               him
               still
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               ,
               and
               have
               done
               this
               fourteen
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Country-man
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               A
               
               Dutch-man
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               born
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               At
               Brussels
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               We
               would
               ask
               him
               what
               Perswasion
               or
               Religion
               he
               is
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               may
               be
               sure
               of
               what
               answer
               you
               shall
               have
               .
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               a
               Roman
               Catholick
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               That
               is
               as
               good
               as
               a
               Jew
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               The
               Question
               is
               not
               intended
               for
               any
               harm
               ,
               not
               with
               any
               purpose
               to
               criminate
               him
               ,
               't
               is
               only
               in
               regard
               of
               his
               Credit
               in
               this
               matter
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               another
               Witness
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Where
               is
               
                 George
                 Leigh
              
               ?
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               old
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               about
               fifteen
               or
               sixteen
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               believe
               he
               is
               eighteen
               or
               nineteen
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Whose
               servant
               is
               he
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               my
               Servant
               ,
               he
               hath
               served
               me
               seven
               or
               eight
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               does
               your
               Lordship
               call
               him
               for
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               To
               tell
               you
               ,
               whether
               I
               bid
               my
               Servants
               to
               go
               out
               when
               Dugdale
               came
               in
               ,
               and
               whether
               ever
               he
               saw
               Dugdale
               and
               I
               alone
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               
                 George
                 Leigh
              
               ,
               How
               long
               have
               you
               lived
               with
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               Seven
               years
               the
               10.
               of
               June
               last
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               then
               you
               were
               but
               nine
               years
               old
               when
               you
               came
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               was
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               when
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               at
               Tixall
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               the
               month
               very
               well
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               the
               time
               of
               the
               Race
               at
               
               Etching-Hill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               the
               day
               ,
               but
               I
               was
               at
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               come
               into
               your
               Lords
               chamber
               that
               morning
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               he
               was
               there
               that
               very
               morning
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               ever
               I
               bid
               him
               go
               out
               of
               my
               chamber
               when
               Dugdale
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               see
               Dugdale
               any
               other
               morning
               in
               your
               Lords
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               not
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               certain
               ,
               he
               was
               there
               one
               morning
               and
               it
               was
               about
               a
               Race
               ,
               but
               I
               am
               not
               certain
               what
               Race
               it
               was
               ,
               whether
               it
               was
               two
               Boys
               ran
               or
               two
               Men.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               your
               Lord
               bid
               you
               go
               out
               of
               his
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Dugdale
               says
               ,
               I
               often
               sent
               him
               for
               him
               ,
               pray
               ask
               him
               that
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               this
               Boy
               does
               not
               remember
               that
               Dugdale
               at
               all
               was
               at
               your
               Chamber
               that
               time
               of
               the
               Race
               at
               
               Etching-Hill
               ;
               so
               that
               it
               is
               not
               material
               to
               the
               thing
               in
               question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               Dugdale
               told
               your
               Lordships
               yesterday
               ,
               that
               I
               sent
               this
               Boy
               often
               for
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               ever
               this
               Boy
               come
               for
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               hath
               I
               am
               sure
               come
               to
               my
               Chamber
               for
               me
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               sent
               for
               by
               my
               Lord
               more
               than
               once
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               several
               times
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Before
               or
               after
               the
               Race
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Both
               before
               the
               Race
               and
               after
               the
               Race
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               By
               whom
               were
               you
               sent
               for
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Sometimes
               by
               the
               Gentleman
               that
               was
               last
               examined
               ,
               and
               sometimes
               by
               this
               Boy
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               come
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               to
               bid
               Dugdale
               come
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               that
               ever
               I
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               an
               hard
               thing
               to
               remember
               so
               long
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               If
               ever
               he
               came
               once
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               was
               alone
               with
               me
               ,
               I
               will
               be
               content
               to
               acknowledge
               all
               this
               to
               be
               true
               .
               Pray
               ask
               the
               other
               man
               ,
               if
               ever
               I
               sent
               him
               for
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               did
               testifie
               before
               ,
               that
               he
               came
               with
               him
               that
               day
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               That
               day
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               But
               he
               says
               other
               days
               I
               sent
               for
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               Furnese
               again
               .
               
                 (
                 Who
                 stood
                 up
                 .
                 )
              
               Furnese
               ,
               did
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ever
               send
               you
               for
               Dugdale
               ,
               either
               before
               or
               after
               the
               Race
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Never
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               to
               his
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               ever
               in
               his
               life
               send
               you
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               to
               speak
               with
               him
               as
               you
               remember
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Never
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               such
               a
               Fellow
               I
               could
               not
               endure
               he
               should
               come
               near
               me
               ,
               such
               an
               Impudent
               lying
               Fellow
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               a
               great
               many
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               them
               all
               ,
               I
               pray
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hope
               you
               think
               I
               would
               not
               be
               so
               great
               and
               impudent
               a
               Fool
               to
               employ
               such
               a
               Fellow
               as
               this
               ,
               who
               not
               long
               after
               run
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               did
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               .
               And
               for
               that
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               ,
               I
               would
               call
               some
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               Furnese
               again
               .
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 .
                 )
              
               Did
               you
               ever
               see
               Dugdale
               and
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               together
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Never
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               ,
               you
               saw
               them
               together
               that
               morning
               you
               brought
               him
               to
               the
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             [
             Then
             the
             Auditory
             laughed
             .
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Never
               alone
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               think
               I
               was
               in
               a
               Cock-Pitt
               ,
               or
               a
               Play-House
               .
               But
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               let
               me
               call
               my
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               ,
               That
               Dugdale
               ran
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               I
               shall
               call
               for
               that
               
                 Thomas
                 Sawyer
              
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Christian
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Thomas
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               do
               you
               live
               withall
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Aston
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               At
               Tixall
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               you
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Servant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               have
               you
               been
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Six
               years
               and
               ever
               since
               Michaelmas
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               have
               you
               to
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               As
               to
               
               Dugdale's
               reputation
               ,
               I
               have
               this
               to
               say
               ,
               How
               that
               he
               went
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               for
               debt
               ,
               and
               was
               taken
               by
               the
               Watch
               at
               Heywood
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               The
               latter
               end
               of
               November
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               December
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               Year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               the
               Family
               broke
               up
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               And
               coming
               thither
               ,
               and
               being
               taken
               by
               the
               Watch
               ,
               he
               was
               brought
               by
               the
               Justices
               to
               Tixall
               ;
               and
               after
               the
               Justices
               had
               been
               with
               my
               Lord
               ,
               their
               resolution
               was
               ,
               to
               carry
               him
               to
               the
               Gaol
               .
               So
               coming
               to
               Tixal
               where
               Dugdale
               was
               ,
               at
               an
               Ale
               ▪
               house
               ,
               he
               desired
               me
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               desire
               him
               that
               he
               would
               own
               him
               as
               his
               Servant
               ,
               for
               he
               was
               so
               much
               in
               debt
               that
               he
               should
               else
               be
               undone
               for
               ever
               .
               In
               the
               mean
               time
               Mr.
               Philips
               the
               Parson
               of
               the
               Town
               had
               been
               with
               my
               Lord
               (
               for
               Dugdale
               had
               desired
               him
               to
               go
               to
               him
               also
               )
               and
               he
               asking
               me
               whither
               
               I
               was
               going
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               I
               am
               going
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               from
               Dugdale
               ,
               to
               desire
               him
               to
               own
               him
               as
               his
               Servant
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               with
               my
               Lord
               just
               now
               ,
               and
               he
               said
               ,
               he
               will
               not
               own
               him
               as
               his
               Servant
               ;
               it
               was
               his
               own
               act
               and
               deed
               .
               So
               Mr.
               Philips
               and
               I
               came
               back
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               .
               So
               he
               sat
               down
               in
               the
               Chair
               ,
               and
               then
               rose
               up
               again
               ,
               and
               swore
               ,
               He
               would
               be
               revenged
               of
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               if
               ever
               it
               lay
               in
               his
               power
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               never
               heard
               him
               say
               ,
               he
               would
               be
               revenged
               of
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               did
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               of
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               .
               Then
               another
               time
               ,
               being
               at
               Stafford
               ,
               he
               owed
               me
               Twenty
               nine
               Pounds
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               under
               the
               Serjeants
               hands
               ,
               and
               then
               he
               promised
               me
               from
               time
               to
               time
               he
               would
               pay
               me
               ,
               and
               did
               not
               keep
               his
               word
               .
               This
               was
               three
               or
               four
               days
               before
               he
               begun
               to
               peach
               .
               He
               bid
               me
               come
               such
               a
               day
               ,
               and
               he
               would
               pay
               me
               part
               of
               the
               money
               ;
               and
               when
               I
               came
               thither
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               it
               was
               reported
               ,
               That
               he
               should
               be
               a
               Peacher
               ;
               and
               that
               there
               was
               a
               speech
               ,
               how
               that
               he
               should
               have
               two
               hundred
               pounds
               for
               informing
               ,
               that
               there
               were
               Fourteen
               Priests
               in
               the
               Country
               ;
               but
               he
               takes
               a
               Glass
               of
               Drink
               ,
               and
               Thomas
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               by
               God
               ,
               I
               wish
               this
               may
               be
               my
               Damnation
               and
               my
               Poison
               ,
               if
               I
               know
               of
               any
               Plot
               ,
               or
               any
               Priests
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               not
               he
               a
               Papist
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               absolutely
               tell
               that
               ,
               whether
               he
               was
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               one
               Father
               Evers
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               seen
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Hath
               he
               never
               been
               at
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Yes
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               seen
               him
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               And
               have
               not
               you
               seen
               Dugdale
               in
               his
               Company
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Yes
               I
               have
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               not
               you
               at
               Tixal
               think
               Dugdale
               a
               stout
               able
               Fellow
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               he
               never
               was
               accounted
               to
               be
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               I
               ask
               you
               ,
               if
               you
               thought
               him
               an
               honest
               man
               ,
               or
               a
               rich
               man
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ;
               for
               I
               'll
               tell
               you
               more
               than
               that
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               employed
               him
               to
               be
               his
               Bayliff
               ,
               and
               receive
               his
               Rents
               ,
               and
               to
               pay
               Workmen
               their
               Wages
               ,
               which
               he
               received
               every
               Saturday
               ;
               aud
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               did
               Accompt
               with
               him
               ,
               where
               he
               did
               set
               his
               hand
               to
               receive
               the
               poor
               Workmens
               Wages
               according
               to
               their
               Bills
               ,
               when
               they
               had
               not
               been
               paid
               some
               of
               them
               whole
               years
               ,
               and
               half
               years
               ,
               and
               quarters
               .
               And
               they
               came
               and
               cryed
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               that
               they
               were
               not
               paid
               ;
               and
               thereupon
               Dugdale
               did
               say
               ,
               That
               one
               of
               them
               had
               demanded
               more
               of
               my
               Lord
               than
               was
               his
               due
               ;
               for
               he
               said
               he
               had
               reckoned
               such
               a
               day
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               paid
               him
               so
               much
               money
               ;
               which
               man
               said
               he
               was
               not
               that
               day
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               and
               so
               he
               hindred
               him
               of
               part
               of
               his
               money
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               know
               that
               Dugdale
               did
               forswear
               himself
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               That
               I
               do
               not
               know
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
               I
               did
               hear
               he
               was
               concern'd
               in
               a
               
               Race
               ,
               about
               which
               there
               was
               a
               Tryal
               and
               a
               Dispute
               which
               had
               won
               .
               (
               This
               ●
               have
               heard
               by
               report
               .
               )
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Speak
               your
               own
               knowledge
               ,
               not
               Reports
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               ask
               you
               ;
               do
               you
               remember
               the
               day
               when
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               came
               to
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               He
               came
               on
               the
               12.
               day
               of
               the
               month
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               ,
               September
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               the
               12.
               of
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               see
               Dugdale
               in
               the
               Company
               of
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               while
               he
               was
               at
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               never
               in
               the
               House
               ,
               but
               at
               the
               Race
               ,
               he
               hath
               come
               into
               the
               Parlour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               You
               had
               Discourse
               with
               Dugdale
               ;
               you
               say
               he
               took
               a
               Glass
               and
               drank
               ,
               and
               wished
               it
               might
               be
               his
               Poyson
               .
               Was
               not
               Father
               Evers
               that
               time
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Not
               as
               I
               know
               of
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Was
               he
               not
               commonly
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               If
               he
               were
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               must
               know
               it
               ;
               and
               how
               then
               could
               he
               take
               a
               Glass
               and
               wish
               it
               were
               Poyson
               if
               he
               knew
               where
               any
               Priest
               was
               ,
               since
               it
               was
               apparent
               he
               knew
               where
               that
               Priest
               was
               ?
               'T
               is
               most
               improbable
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               should
               say
               thus
               !
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               was
               three
               or
               four
               days
               e're
               he
               confessed
               any
               thing
               he
               knew
               of
               his
               knowledge
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               What
               Perswasion
               of
               Religion
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               ;
               he
               says
               Dugdale
               went
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               :
               was
               not
               there
               a
               speech
               of
               a
               Plot
               (
               at
               that
               time
               )
               that
               was
               discovered
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               that
               I
               heard
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ▪
               I
               would
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               more
               :
               Was
               there
               no
               discourse
               of
               the
               Death
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               that
               was
               said
               to
               be
               killed
               in
               London
               about
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sawyer
               .
            
             
               To
               my
               best
               remembrance
               ,
               as
               I
               heard
               ,
               there
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               that
               I
               should
               call
               Witnesses
               to
               confront
               him
               now
               ,
               or
               afterwards
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Not
               now
               ;
               stay
               till
               your
               time
               comes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               call
               Philips
               .
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew
               ▪
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ,
               Sir
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Ralph
               Philips
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               are
               you
               ,
               a
               Clergy-man
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               you
               beneficed
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               At
               Tixal
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               are
               a
               person
               that
               knows
               the
               Obligation
               that
               lies
               upon
               you
               to
               give
               a
               true
               Testimony
               ;
               what
               can
               you
               say
               of
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               very
               little
               to
               say
               concerning
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               as
               to
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               but
               in
               reference
               to
               what
               he
               should
               relate
               concerning
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               and
               me
               in
               the
               Narrative
               which
               he
               deposed
               upon
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               :
               He
               said
               then
               he
               did
               receive
               a
               Letter
               concerning
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               which
               was
               dated
               the
               12.
               of
               October
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               ;
               and
               that
               he
               did
               communicate
               the
               Letter
               to
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               and
               me
               immediately
               the
               next
               Tuesday
               :
               Whereas
               I
               will
               assure
               you
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               neither
               by
               Letter
               nor
               word
               of
               mouth
               from
               him
               nor
               any
               other
               ,
               till
               it
               was
               publickly
               known
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               did
               not
               live
               in
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               house
               ,
               did
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               know
               not
               what
               he
               says
               ;
               we
               desire
               to
               understand
               what
               he
               means
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               takes
               notice
               that
               Dugdale
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
              
               did
               depose
               touching
               a
               Letter
               dated
               the
               12.
               of
               October
               ,
               which
               should
               come
               down
               to
               Tixal
               ,
               intimating
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmnndbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               did
               communicate
               that
               with
               the
               Parson
               of
               Tixal
               and
               another
               ;
               which
               Parson
               comes
               now
               to
               say
               ,
               He
               did
               communicate
               no
               such
               a
               matter
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               he
               was
               present
               at
               that
               Tryal
               ,
               and
               heard
               him
               say
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               not
               present
               at
               the
               Tryal
               ;
               but
               if
               the
               Narrative
               of
               the
               Tryal
               be
               truth
               ,
               he
               did
               say
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               So
               then
               you
               only
               come
               to
               disprove
               what
               is
               printed
               that
               Dugdale
               should
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               Then
               I
               leave
               it
               to
               your
               Judgments
               ,
               whether
               what
               he
               said
               in
               the
               Narrative
               of
               that
               Tryal
               ,
               do
               concur
               with
               the
               Truth
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               then
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               did
               not
               run
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ,
               and
               would
               have
               him
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               to
               own
               him
               for
               his
               Servant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               know
               of
               
               Dugdale's
               running
               away
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               I
               know
               nothing
               at
               all
               of
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whether
               he
               did
               speak
               to
               him
               for
               his
               Servant
               when
               he
               was
               in
               the
               Justices
               hands
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Can
               you
               say
               any
               thing
               touching
               the
               Credit
               of
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               nothing
               to
               say
               concerning
               
               Dugdale's
               Credit
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               know
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               ever
               since
               I
               came
               to
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               is
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               About
               fourteen
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Reputation
               had
               he
               in
               the
               Country
               ?
               was
               he
               looked
               upon
               as
               one
               that
               would
               perjure
               himself
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               knew
               any
               thing
               of
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               he
               thought
               a
               stout
               man
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               in
               good
               repute
               with
               some
               ,
               and
               indifferent
               with
               others
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               call
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               would
               only
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               ;
               Whether
               he
               did
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               from
               Dugdale
               ,
               to
               know
               if
               he
               would
               own
               him
               for
               his
               Servant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               did
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               knows
               very
               well
               I
               did
               ;
               he
               did
               request
               me
               to
               go
               to
               him
               .
               My
               Lord
               Aston
               I
               was
               loth
               to
               go
               to
               ,
               because
               I
               had
               no
               familiarity
               with
               him
               ,
               nor
               Interest
               in
               him
               ;
               but
               he
               did
               request
               and
               urge
               me
               so
               much
               ,
               that
               I
               did
               go
               by
               much
               motives
               and
               persuasions
               from
               him
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               speak
               to
               my
               Lord
               ;
               so
               I
               told
               him
               the
               Message
               I
               had
               was
               from
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               who
               would
               request
               of
               my
               Lord
               that
               he
               would
               own
               him
               for
               his
               Servant
               ;
               for
               if
               he
               did
               not
               ,
               he
               knew
               not
               what
               to
               do
               with
               himself
               :
               but
               if
               he
               did
               ,
               he
               might
               be
               free
               from
               the
               Gaol
               and
               from
               the
               Oaths
               ,
               and
               escape
               the
               Troubles
               that
               were
               upon
               him
               .
               So
               my
               Lord
               replyed
               to
               me
               ,
               'T
               is
               his
               own
               act
               and
               deed
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               nothing
               to
               do
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               let
               the
               Justices
               do
               what
               they
               will
               with
               him
               ;
               which
               were
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               and
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               whether
               he
               heard
               any
               discourse
               about
               a
               Plot
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               heard
               a
               talk
               of
               a
               Plot
               ,
               but
               not
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               if
               he
               took
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               for
               a
               person
               that
               might
               be
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               if
               there
               was
               any
               such
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               tell
               how
               to
               answer
               that
               ,
               't
               is
               an
               hard
               Question
               ;
               I
               am
               not
               so
               intimately
               acquainted
               with
               persons
               whose
               secrets
               are
               not
               reposed
               in
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               The
               next
               Witness
               I
               desire
               may
               be
               (
               with
               the
               leave
               of
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               )
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               ,
               I
               did
               desire
               him
               to
               be
               here
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               There
               he
               is
               ,
               we
               do
               not
               oppose
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               that
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               be
               heard
               in
               his
               place
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             Sir
             Walter
             Bagott
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               would
               you
               ask
               Sir
               Walter
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               apprehend
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               upon
               what
               account
               it
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               ,
               my
               Lord
               desires
               to
               know
               of
               you
               ,
               whether
               you
               did
               apprehend
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               upon
               what
               account
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               Walter
               Bagott
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               taken
               at
               an
               unseasonable
               time
               of
               night
               and
               brought
               to
               me
               the
               next
               morning
               by
               the
               Watch
               ,
               as
               the
               other
               Witnesses
               have
               told
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               I
               took
               him
               away
               to
               Stafford
               ,
               where
               there
               were
               several
               other
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ;
               there
               we
               offered
               him
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ,
               which
               he
               took
               .
               After
               the
               taking
               of
               these
               Oaths
               ,
               we
               told
               him
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               a
               likely
               man
               to
               know
               something
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               a
               very
               proper
               time
               for
               him
               to
               discover
               it
               to
               us
               that
               were
               Justices
               :
               he
               at
               that
               time
               did
               deny
               the
               knowledge
               of
               it
               ,
               that
               is
               all
               I
               can
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               may
               be
               asked
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               to
               see
               whether
               he
               would
               own
               Dugdale
               as
               his
               Servant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               ask
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               to
               own
               him
               for
               his
               Servant
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Walt.
               Bag.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               did
               :
               for
               my
               Lords
               house
               being
               in
               the
               way
               to
               Stafford
               ,
               whither
               I
               was
               going
               ,
               I
               called
               upon
               him
               to
               know
               if
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               were
               his
               Servant
               :
               he
               told
               me
               he
               was
               no
               servant
               of
               his
               ,
               and
               he
               would
               not
               receive
               him
               :
               Upon
               which
               I
               and
               another
               Justice
               of
               the
               Peace
               that
               was
               with
               me
               ,
               took
               him
               to
               Stafford
               .
               The
               occasion
               of
               our
               meeting
               there
               ,
               was
               to
               summon
               in
               the
               Militia
               ,
               upon
               an
               Alarm
               of
               the
               Papists
               being
               risen
               in
               Derbyshire
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               make
               this
               use
               of
               it
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               would
               not
               receive
               him
               :
               and
               if
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               had
               known
               he
               had
               been
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               could
               have
               discovered
               him
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               have
               disobliged
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Nay
               ,
               he
               says
               more
               then
               that
               ,
               which
               you
               don't
               hear
               ,
               he
               says
               when
               they
               examined
               him
               ,
               they
               gave
               him
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ,
               and
               then
               told
               him
               he
               would
               do
               well
               to
               discover
               his
               knowledge
               of
               the
               Plot
               ?
               and
               then
               he
               did
               not
               own
               any
               thing
               he
               knew
               ?
               nay
               ,
               he
               denyed
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               deny
               the
               knowing
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Walter
               Bagott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               did
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               
            
             
               Win.
               He
               was
               not
               resolved
               to
               discover
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Bagott
              
               may
               be
               asked
               whether
               he
               examined
               him
               upon
               his
               Oath
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Walter
               Bagott
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               But
               had
               they
               then
               just
               given
               him
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Walter
               Bagott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               gave
               him
               those
               Oaths
               ,
               and
               those
               only
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               ,
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 )
              
               Be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               this
               worthy
               Gentleman
               what
               he
               knows
               about
               Dugdales
               going
               from
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               First
               let
               us
               know
               this
               Gentleman
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               His
               name
               is
               Kinnersley
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               What
               Questions
               would
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               What
               you
               know
               about
               Dugdales
               going
               from
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               ,
               we
               must
               know
               your
               Christian
               Name
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               Thomas
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               acquainted
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               till
               
                 Sir
                 Brian
                 Broughton
                 ,
                 Sir
                 Walter
                 Bagott
                 ,
              
               and
               I
               and
               others
               gave
               him
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ,
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               November
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               December
               ;
               I
               did
               not
               take
               notice
               exactly
               of
               the
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               (
               78
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Well
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               go
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               When
               he
               had
               taken
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ,
               I
               asked
               him
               if
               he
               knew
               any
               Treason
               or
               Conspiracy
               against
               the
               King
               ,
               telling
               him
               it
               was
               a
               seasonable
               time
               to
               declare
               it
               .
               He
               told
               me
               he
               knew
               of
               none
               .
               This
               is
               all
               I
               know
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               discourse
               that
               I
               remember
               we
               had
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Pray
               why
               did
               you
               ask
               him
               that
               Question
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               The
               Plot
               was
               then
               newly
               broken
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Why
               did
               you
               ask
               him
               so
               particularly
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Why
               did
               you
               think
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               concerned
               in
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               .
            
             
               Because
               we
               heard
               he
               was
               a
               Papist
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Servant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Then
               I
               desire
               Sir
               
                 Thomas
                 Whitegrave
              
               may
               be
               examined
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               Sir
               
                 Tho.
                 Whitegrave
              
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Will
               
                 your
                 Lordships
              
               please
               to
               ask
               Sir
               
                 Tho.
                 Whitegrave
              
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               examine
               Dugdale
               about
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               what
               he
               said
               at
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Tho.
               Whitegrave
               .
            
             
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               I
               came
               to
               Stafford
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               November
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               December
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               certain
               which
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               it
               was
               this
               time
               two
               years
               .
               The
               Deputy-Lieutenants
               met
               about
               the
               Militia
               of
               the
               County
               .
               They
               told
               me
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               in
               Town
               ,
               and
               was
               under
               an
               Arrest
               :
               the
               occasion
               of
               his
               coming
               to
               Town
               ,
               was
               his
               refusal
               of
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ▪
               which
               he
               had
               since
               taken
               .
               I
               proposed
               to
               them
               the
               sending
               for
               him
               ,
               for
               I
               thought
               this
               was
               a
               fit
               opportunity
               to
               get
               something
               of
               him
               about
               the
               Plot.
               They
               seemed
               to
               approve
               of
               what
               I
               said
               ;
               but
               withal
               ,
               I
               told
               them
               it
               was
               not
               good
               to
               send
               for
               him
               till
               the
               Evening
               late
               ,
               that
               the
               people
               of
               the
               Town
               might
               not
               take
               notice
               of
               his
               coming
               .
               At
               night
               we
               did
               send
               for
               him
               ,
               and
               the
               Gentlemen
               desired
               that
               I
               would
               examine
               him
               at
               the
               end
               of
               the
               Table
               :
               so
               I
               called
               him
               up
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               was
               sorry
               he
               was
               fallen
               into
               that
               misfortune
               to
               be
               Arrested
               ,
               and
               that
               Mr.
               Mayor
               had
               not
               dealt
               well
               with
               him
               or
               us
               to
               take
               that
               advantage
               of
               him
               :
               that
               now
               he
               had
               taken
               the
               Oaths
               ,
               I
               looked
               upon
               him
               as
               one
               of
               us
               ,
               and
               would
               do
               him
               any
               kindness
               I
               could
               .
               He
               said
               ,
               truly
               for
               his
               part
               ,
               he
               was
               born
               a
               Protestant
               ,
               and
               of
               Protestant
               Parents
               ;
               and
               it
               was
               his
               misfortune
               to
               fall
               into
               the
               Houses
               of
               Papists
               ,
               but
               he
               never
               liked
               their
               Religion
               .
               I
               then
               told
               him
               ,
               Sir
               you
               may
               do
               your self
               a
               kindness
               ,
               serve
               God
               and
               oblige
               your
               King
               and
               Country
               :
               I
               
               am
               very
               confident
               you
               know
               of
               this
               horrid
               Plot
               ;
               pray
               do
               not
               stifle
               your
               Conscience
               with
               any
               Oath
               of
               Secrecy
               ,
               but
               let
               it
               come
               out
               .
               Many
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               strained
               their
               Consciences
               to
               serve
               their
               Interests
               ,
               but
               you
               may
               clear
               your
               Conscience
               ,
               and
               at
               the
               same
               time
               promote
               your
               true
               Interest
               .
               He
               replyed
               ,
               as
               he
               hoped
               to
               be
               saved
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               it
               .
               And
               this
               is
               as
               much
               as
               I
               know
               of
               the
               matter
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Question
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               
                 My
                 Lords
              
               ,
               I
               shall
               humbly
               move
               
                 your
                 Lordships
              
               now
               ,
               that
               you
               will
               please
               to
               take
               notice
               ,
               this
               fellow
               ,
               Dugdale
               ,
               hath
               endeavoured
               to
               perswade
               people
               to
               Swear
               against
               me
               falsly
               ,
               and
               offered
               them
               money
               for
               it
               .
               In
               order
               to
               the
               proof
               of
               which
               ,
               I
               desire
               
                 your
                 Lordships
              
               would
               call
               
                 John
                 Morrall
                 ,
                 Samuel
                 Holt
              
               ,
               and
               
                 William
                 Robinson
              
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Robinson
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               This
               man
               I
               never
               saw
               before
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Robinson
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Christian
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               William
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               In
               Worcestershire
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               With
               whom
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               With
               my self
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               We
               desire
               he
               may
               give
               you
               an
               account
               what
               Profession
               he
               is
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               An
               Upholster
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               he
               hath
               lived
               in
               Worcestershire
               ,
               and
               in
               what
               place
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               lived
               half
               a
               year
               in
               Worcestershire
               half
               a
               mile
               beyond
               Worcester
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Win.
               
            
             
               And
               whether
               he
               follows
               that
               Trade
               or
               Profession
               now
               or
               no
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               follow
               it
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               live
               upon
               ,
               and
               how
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               I
               live
               of
               my self
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               is
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Of
               my
               own
               Money
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hambden
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               whether
               this
               man
               was
               a
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lady
               Gerard
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               
            
             
               Never
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hambden
            
             
               Or
               to
               my
               Lord
               Gerard
               of
               
                 Gerards
                 Bromley
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Never
               ,
               not
               an
               hired
               Servant
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Were
               you
               a
               volunteer
               Servant
               ,
               or
               what
               were
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               work
               at
               any
               time
               there
               for
               my
               Lord
               or
               Lady
               Gerard
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               came
               you
               to
               live
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               I
               went
               over
               from
               a
               Cocking
               out
               of
               Cheshire
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               were
               you
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Three
               weeks
               or
               a
               month
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               was
               your
               Employment
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Nothing
               at
               all
               ,
               I
               followed
               no
               Employment
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               What
               kind
               of
               servant
               were
               you
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Come
               ,
               do
               you
               know
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               have
               you
               known
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               known
               him
               about
               five
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               ,
               I
               met
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               about
               Midsummer
               was
               twelve-month
               in
               London
               ,
               about
               Charing-Cross
               ,
               and
               he
               carried
               me
               to
               the
               Harp
               and
               Ball
               ,
               and
               gave
               me
               Beer
               and
               Mum
               ,
               and
               such
               as
               the
               House
               did
               afford
               ,
               and
               treated
               me
               ,
               and
               asked
               me
               what
               made
               me
               so
               dejected
               and
               cast
               down
               .
               I
               told
               him
               I
               was
               not
               well
               ,
               I
               was
               poorer
               than
               I
               used
               to
               be
               .
               He
               told
               me
               again
               ,
               I
               should
               not
               want
               any
               money
               that
               he
               had
               ;
               and
               if
               I
               would
               please
               to
               be
               ruled
               by
               him
               ,
               and
               do
               what
               he
               would
               have
               me
               ,
               he
               would
               furnish
               me
               with
               money
               .
               And
               he
               took
               his
               Handkerchief
               out
               of
               his
               pocket
               ,
               and
               bid
               me
               ,
               if
               I
               wanted
               ,
               take
               money
               there
               .
               I
               took
               none
               ,
               but
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               meddle
               nor
               make
               with
               any
               thing
               that
               night
               .
               Then
               he
               told
               me
               he
               could
               furnish
               me
               with
               money
               ,
               and
               put
               me
               in
               a
               way
               to
               get
               money
               ,
               if
               I
               would
               come
               in
               as
               an
               Evidence
               against
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               for
               I
               never
               saw
               the
               man
               before
               ,
               nor
               heard
               of
               him
               till
               last
               week
               ,
               what
               he
               should
               say
               against
               me
               ,
               and
               whether
               he
               knew
               me
               or
               not
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               tell
               you
               what
               you
               should
               say
               against
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Nothing
               at
               all
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               say
               any
               thing
               or
               nothing
               ?
               Or
               did
               he
               ask
               whether
               he
               knew
               me
               or
               not
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               tell
               him
               you
               knew
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               if
               it
               please
               you
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               I
               did
               not
               know
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               And
               after
               you
               said
               you
               did
               not
               know
               him
               ,
               he
               offered
               you
               money
               to
               swear
               against
               him
               .
               Did
               he
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               did
               so
               ,
               to
               come
               in
               as
               an
               Evidence
               against
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               ask
               how
               much
               money
               there
               was
               in
               the
               Handkerchief
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               much
               money
               was
               in
               the
               Hankerchief
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               I
               believe
               there
               might
               be
               eight
               ,
               or
               nine
               ,
               or
               ten
               pounds
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               offer
               you
               all
               the
               money
               ,
               or
               bid
               you
               take
               some
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               He
               bid
               me
               take
               some
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               make
               any
               agreement
               with
               you
               for
               what
               yon
               should
               take
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               not
               at
               all
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               see
               Dugdale
               any
               more
               ,
               or
               was
               there
               an
               end
               of
               it
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Robinson
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               saw
               him
               no
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               more
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               shall
               have
               occasion
               to
               speak
               of
               him
               (
               we
               desire
               he
               would
               not
               go
               away
               )
               when
               our
               time
               comes
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             another
             Witness
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               John
               Morrall
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               A
               Barber
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               At
               Ridgley
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               is
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               In
               Staffordshire
               ,
               within
               six
               miles
               of
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               ask
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whether
               Dugdale
               did
               not
               perswade
               him
               to
               swear
               against
               some
               of
               the
               Lords
               in
               the
               Tower
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               him
               twelve
               or
               thirteen
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               can
               you
               say
               against
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               the
               6.
               of
               August
               last
               was
               twelve-month
               ,
               sent
               for
               me
               to
               the
               White
               Horse
               in
               Ridgley
               ,
               and
               there
               when
               I
               came
               to
               him
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               I
               knew
               as
               much
               of
               the
               Plot
               as
               he
               .
               I
               told
               him
               I
               was
               innocent
               of
               the
               thing
               ;
               he
               swore
               God
               damn
               him
               ,
               that
               I
               knew
               as
               much
               as
               he
               :
               Then
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               if
               he
               knew
               no
               more
               than
               I
               did
               ,
               he
               knew
               no
               more
               than
               my
               Lord
               Mayor's
               great
               Horse
               did
               .
               Then
               he
               took
               me
               aside
               ;
               Come
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               you
               are
               a
               poor
               man
               ,
               and
               live
               poorly
               ;
               I
               can
               put
               you
               in
               a
               way
               whereby
               you
               may
               live
               gallantly
               ;
               I
               will
               give
               you
               50
               l.
               in
               hand
               ,
               if
               so
               be
               you
               will
               do
               so
               and
               so
               ,
               and
               50
               l.
               more
               when
               the
               thing
               is
               done
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               mean
               by
               so
               and
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               To
               swear
               against
               Mr.
               Howard
               ,
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               and
               several
               other
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               offer
               you
               any
               mony
               to
               swear
               against
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               hear
               him
               mention
               any
               thing
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               he
               offered
               you
               mony
               to
               swear
               against
               Symons
               and
               Howard
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ;
               and
               
                 Herbert
                 Aston
              
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Kinsman
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               were
               you
               to
               swear
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Morrall
               .
            
             
               That
               they
               were
               at
               such
               a
               Meeting
               at
               Mr.
               Herbert
               Aston's
               upon
               the
               Conspiracy
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               thing
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               set
               him
               by
               .
            
          
           
           
             Then
             another
             Witness
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Samuel
               Holt.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Profession
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               him
               whether
               Dugdale
               would
               perswade
               him
               to
               swear
               that
               which
               he
               knew
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               Profession
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               A
               Protestant
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Trade
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               A
               Blacksmith
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               At
               Tixal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               you
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Servant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               sent
               a
               man
               and
               a
               Horse
               for
               me
               to
               Stafford
               to
               the
               Star.
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               did
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               did
               .
               And
               there
               I
               waited
               upon
               him
               a
               good
               while
               .
               At
               length
               he
               came
               and
               told
               me
               he
               must
               speak
               with
               me
               privately
               ;
               so
               he
               told
               me
               if
               I
               would
               swear
               that
               
                 VValter
                 Moor
              
               carried
               Evers
               away
               ,
               he
               would
               give
               me
               40
               l.
               And
               he
               bid
               me
               not
               be
               afraid
               to
               swear
               for
               fear
               of
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ;
               for
               he
               would
               hire
               me
               an
               Horse
               and
               get
               me
               to
               London
               ,
               and
               place
               me
               ,
               that
               where
               I
               got
               one
               shilling
               I
               should
               g
               et
               five
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               know
               Evers
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               seen
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               when
               he
               went
               away
               from
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               else
               can
               you
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Holt.
               
            
             
               Nothing
               else
               ,
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               T'
               e
               next
               thing
               I
               go
               upon
               is
               ,
               that
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               ,
               swore
               ,
               That
               he
               acquainted
               Sambidge
               with
               the
               Letter
               about
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godsrey
              
               the
               Munday
               or
               Tuesday
               after
               ;
               which
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               denies
               .
               And
               in
               order
               to
               that
               ,
               I
               call
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               ;
               but
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               shall
               first
               prove
               that
               h●
               swore
               it
               then
               .
               Where
               is
               Mr.
               Lydcott
               ?
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 .
                 )
              
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               Dugdale
               did
               swear
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               ,
               that
               he
               acquainted
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               with
               the
               Letter
               about
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               fellow
               .
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVitness
               .
            
             
               John
               Lydcott
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               a
               Fellow
               of
               
                 Kings
                 Colledge
              
               in
               Cambridge
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               come
               to
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               I
               don't
               know
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ;
               what
               my
               Lord
               will
               ask
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               before
               you
               enter
               into
               the
               examination
               of
               this
               man
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               a
               Question
               or
               two
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               Whose
               Servant
               are
               you
               ,
               or
               were
               you
               lately
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               Fellow
               of
               
                 Kings
                 Colledge
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               But
               whom
               did
               you
               serve
               lately
               ?
               were
               you
               never
               Secretary
               to
               a
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               To
               what
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               To
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               ,
               Sir.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               and
               always
               was
               ;
               nay
               I
               can't
               say
               always
               ,
               for
               I
               was
               bred
               up
               a
               Presbyterian
               :
               my
               Father
               was
               a
               Colonel
               under
               Monk.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Lydcott
               .
               I
               ask
               whether
               you
               did
               not
               hear
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               swear
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               one
               favour
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ;
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               asks
               Questions
               to
               lead
               the
               Witness
               ;
               pray
               let
               him
               ask
               his
               Questions
               more
               generally
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               say
               you
               are
               a
               Protestant
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               did
               you
               last
               receive
               the
               Sacrament
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               When
               I
               was
               last
               at
               Cambridge
               .
               —
               No
               not
               so
               ;
               for
               it
               is
               not
               above
               a
               year
               ago
               that
               I
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               then
               did
               you
               receive
               the
               Sacrament
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               exactly
               remember
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               would
               be
               glad
               to
               know
               what
               is
               the
               Question
               your
               Lordship
               calls
               him
               for
               ,
               that
               your
               Lordship
               may
               not
               ask
               the
               Question
               but
               by
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               (
               for
               my
               part
               I
               know
               not
               what
               his
               Answer
               will
               be
               )
               whether
               he
               did
               hear
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               ,
               Dugdale
               swear
               he
               had
               communicated
               the
               news
               of
               Sir
               Edmundbury
               Godfrey's
               death
               ,
               which
               was
               on
               the
               Saturday
               ,
               on
               the
               Tuesday
               after
               to
               any
               people
               ,
               and
               to
               whom
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               hear
               Dugdale
               swear
               there
               ,
               and
               give
               his
               Testimony
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               what
               Dugdale
               swore
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Very
               well
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               spoke
               of
               a
               Letter
               that
               came
               down
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               on
               the
               Munday
               ,
               and
               he
               imparted
               it
               on
               the
               Tuesday
               after
               ,
               at
               an
               Ale-house
               ,
               to
               one
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               and
               Mr.
               Philips
               ;
               This
               was
               also
               at
               Sir
               George
               Wakeman's
               Tryal
               ,
               which
               I
               took
               notice
               of
               more
               particularly
               ,
               because
               I
               had
               occasion
               to
               take
               some
               Notes
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               use
               do
               you
               make
               of
               this
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               that
               be
               allowed
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               then
               I
               will
               call
               no
               more
               Witnesses
               ,
               otherwise
               I
               have
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               them
               all
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
             
               Then
               call
               Mr.
               
                 Charles
                 Gifford
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               ask
               this
               young
               Scholar
               one
               Question
               before
               he
               goes
               ;
               By
               whose
               commendation
               or
               means
               did
               you
               come
               into
               that
               Colledge
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               By
               Election
               from
               Eaton
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               Who
               promoted
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               One
               Mr.
               Doyley
               ,
               now
               Senior
               Fellow
               of
               
                 Kings
                 Colledge
              
               ;
               it
               was
               his
               Election
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               .
               He
               says
               he
               went
               to
               take
               Notes
               ;
               by
               whose
               direction
               did
               he
               go
               to
               take
               Notes
               at
               Sir
               George
               Wakeman's
               Tryal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               for
               my
               own
               curiosity
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Friend
               ,
               't
               is
               all
               one
               as
               if
               you
               were
               upon
               your
               Oath
               ,
               and
               as
               penal
               to
               you
               ;
               by
               whose
               direction
               did
               you
               go
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               partly
               my
               own
               curiosity
               ,
               and
               partly
               to
               see
               what
               Evidence
               was
               against
               my
               Lord
               ;
               for
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               thought
               himself
               concerned
               as
               well
               as
               others
               ,
               and
               therefore
               desired
               me
               to
               go
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Now
               it
               is
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               done
               like
               a
               Secretary
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Had
               you
               ever
               that
               curiosity
               before
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               'll
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               had
               a
               great
               curiosity
               to
               hear
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               at
               any
               other
               Tryal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcott
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               at
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               Tryal
               ,
               and
               Langhorns
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             another
             Witness
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Charles
               Gifford
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ask
               him
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               hear
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               five
               Jesuits
               ,
               or
               Sir
               
                 George
                 Wakeman
                 ,
                 Dugdale
              
               say
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               communicate
               that
               Letter
               to
               some
               people
               ,
               I
               name
               not
               who
               ,
               the
               Tuesday
               after
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               the
               Five
               Jesuits
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Gifford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               take
               Notes
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Gifford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               summoned
               there
               as
               an
               Evidence
               ;
               I
               had
               occasion
               of
               being
               there
               ,
               both
               at
               the
               Five
               Jesuits
               Tryal
               ,
               and
               VVakemans
               and
               Langhorns
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               took
               Notes
               you
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Gifford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               I
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               remember
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               did
               then
               swear
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Gifford
               .
            
             
               I
               remember
               at
               the
               Five
               Jesuits
               Tryals
               ,
               he
               did
               swear
               he
               received
               a
               Letter
               sent
               to
               Evers
               which
               he
               intercepted
               ,
               and
               it
               spoke
               of
               the
               death
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ;
               and
               he
               returned
               Answer
               to
               Evers
               again
               ,
               he
               would
               be
               hanged
               if
               it
               did
               not
               spoil
               the
               business
               .
               And
               he
               said
               farther
               ,
               he
               could
               not
               hold
               ,
               but
               went
               to
               an
               Ale-house
               ,
               and
               there
               he
               did
               impart
               it
               :
               but
               then
               he
               did
               say
               there
               was
               one
               that
               could
               testifie
               and
               make
               out
               what
               he
               said
               ;
               upon
               which
               ,
               he
               called
               Mr.
               Chetwyn
               ,
               who
               deposed
               much
               to
               the
               same
               purpose
               .
               And
               then
               at
               Sir
               
                 George
                 VVakemans
              
               Tryal
               he
               did
               positively
               declare
               ,
               that
               he
               spoke
               of
               it
               at
               an
               Alehouse
               to
               a
               Minister
               ,
               Parson
               Philips
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Kinsman
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               his
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Gifford
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Well
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               ;
               but
               I
               conceive
               by
               this
               't
               is
               plain
               that
               Dugdale
               did
               then
               say
               ,
               he
               had
               communicated
               it
               to
               Mr.
               Philips
               and
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
               I
               shall
               call
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               to
               g
               ve
               you
               an
               account
               .
            
          
           
             Mr.
             Sambidge
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               he
               did
               hear
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               say
               on
               the
               Tuesday
               ,
               that
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               was
               murdered
               the
               Saturday
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               hear
               the
               Question
               ▪
               answer
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               Who
               must
               I
               speak
               to
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               very
               deaf
               and
               very
               old
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Black
             Rod
             was
             sent
             to
             be
             near
             him
             ,
             to
             put
             the
             Question
             to
             him
             .
          
           
             
               Black
               Rod.
               
            
             
               What
               would
               you
               have
               h●m
               asked
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whether
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               did
               tell
               him
               on
               the
               Tuesday
               ,
               that
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               was
               murdered
               the
               Saturday
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               Black
               Rod.
               
            
             
               Did
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               tell
               you
               of
               the
               Tuesday
               ,
               that
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               was
               murdered
               the
               Saturday
               before
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               never
               told
               me
               any
               such
               thing
               ,
               I
               take
               it
               upon
               my
               salvation
               .
               I
               never
               heard
               it
               till
               Friday
               or
               Saturday
               he
               was
               found
               at
               
                 Bury
                 hill
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ask
               him
               if
               he
               were
               with
               Dugdale
               at
               the
               Alehouse
               the
               Tuesday
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               Dugdale
               never
               spoke
               any
               such
               thing
               to
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               not
               you
               with
               him
               at
               the
               Alehouse
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Not
               on
               Munday
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Nor
               on
               Tuesday
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Nor
               Wednesday
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               Not
               as
               I
               know
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               shall
               prove
               he
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ask
               him
               what
               Reputation
               Dugdale
               hath
               in
               the
               Country
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               Oh
               the
               wickedst
               man
               that
               ever
               lived
               upon
               the
               face
               of
               the
               earth
               ;
               I
               know
               great
               part
               of
               it
               my self
               ,
               and
               a
               hundred
               and
               a
               hundred
               of
               people
               will
               say
               as
               much
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               never
               a
               Papist
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               nor
               ever
               a
               Phanatick
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               know
               of
               Dugdale
               in
               particular
               that
               is
               ill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               'll
               tell
               you
               ,
               he
               was
               a
               very
               abusive
               man
               ,
               especially
               to
               the
               Clergy
               and
               most
               especially
               to
               Mr.
               Philips
               ,
               with
               whom
               I
               boarded
               .
               My
               Lord
               Aston
               that
               is
               dead
               ,
               came
               and
               told
               me
               of
               it
               .
               Said
               I
               ,
               You
               are
               misinformed
               ,
               for
               this
               Dugdale
               is
               a
               Knave
               &
               a
               Rogue
               ,
               and
               all
               the
               Countrey
               ring
               of
               him
               for
               his
               wickedness
               ;
               upon
               which
               he
               cites
               me
               into
               Litchfield
               Court
               for
               defaming
               him
               ,
               and
               he
               entertains
               all
               the
               Proctors
               ,
               that
               I
               could
               not
               get
               one
               to
               put
               in
               my
               Answer
               :
               but
               before
               the
               day
               came
               he
               discharged
               the
               Court
               ,
               and
               never
               appeared
               ;
               for
               we
               had
               that
               against
               him
               that
               he
               durst
               not
               appear
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               particulars
               do
               you
               know
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               .
            
             
               He
               said
               the
               Clergy
               of
               England
               was
               a
               lewd
               Clergy
               ,
               and
               a
               pack
               of
               Rogues
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Question
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Hath
               my
               Lord
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               go
               on
               ;
               hath
               your
               Lordship
               done
               with
               Dugdale
               ,
               or
               have
               you
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               a
               great
               deal
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Go
               on
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               conceive
               by
               this
               ,
               't
               is
               proved
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               Dugdale
               did
               at
               that
               Tryal
               declare
               ,
               he
               had
               acquainted
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               and
               Mr.
               Philips
               with
               the
               Letter
               about
               the
               Death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               the
               Tuesday
               after
               he
               was
               murdered
               .
               And
               I
               conceive
               I
               have
               proved
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               by
               their
               denying
               it
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               not
               tell
               them
               so
               ;
               and
               so
               he
               is
               forsworn
               in
               that
               .
               I
               should
               now
               have
               humbly
               desired
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               you
               will
               please
               to
               call
               
                 William
                 Day
              
               :
               but
               upon
               asking
               the
               Question
               ,
               I
               find
               he
               is
               not
               yet
               come
               to
               Town
               ,
               and
               so
               I
               shall
               not
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               him
               ,
               I
               desire
               that
               
                 Thomas
                 Sawyer
              
               may
               be
               called
               again
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               hear
               Dugdale
               wish
               he
               might
               be
               damned
               ,
               if
               he
               knew
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               said
               that
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               call
               him
               again
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Go
               on
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ▪
               there
               are
               a
               great
               many
               other
               Witnesses
               which
               I
               could
               call
               ;
               but
               it
               is
               to
               no
               purpose
               ,
               and
               so
               I
               shall
               call
               no
               more
               as
               to
               Dugdale
               .
               I
               conceive
               upon
               the
               whole
               matter
               ,
               his
               Reputation
               and
               Credit
               are
               gone
               ,
               for
               he
               is
               forsworn
               before
               the
               Justices
               of
               Peace
               ,
               in
               that
               he
               said
               there
               was
               no
               Plot
               ,
               and
               wished
               he
               might
               be
               damned
               if
               he
               knew
               of
               any
               Plot.
               I
               conceive
               't
               is
               also
               proved
               ,
               that
               upon
               the
               Twentieth
               of
               September
               ,
               when
               ,
               he
               says
               ,
               I
               did
               communicate
               with
               him
               about
               the
               Kings
               Death
               ,
               he
               was
               only
               then
               with
               me
               upon
               his
               own
               desire
               ,
               and
               my
               servants
               were
               by
               ;
               there
               was
               nothing
               discoursed
               of
               ,
               but
               about
               the
               Foot-Race
               .
               And
               likewise
               as
               to
               what
               he
               swore
               in
               August
               ,
               that
               I
               was
               at
               such
               a
               meeting
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               he
               is
               forsworn
               ,
               for
               I
               was
               not
               there
               ;
               and
               so
               I
               hope
               that
               Witness
               is
               laid
               aside
               ,
               no
               Creature
               will
               give
               any
               Credit
               to
               him
               ,
               neither
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               nor
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               done
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Whom
               will
               you
               proceed
               against
               next
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Only
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               one
               thing
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               that
               you
               were
               pleased
               to
               say
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               Copies
               of
               the
               two
               Depositions
               of
               the
               Twenty
               fourth
               and
               Twenty
               ninth
               of
               December
               .
               And
               I
               had
               one
               to
               inquire
               ,
               but
               can't
               find
               that
               of
               the
               Twenty
               ninth
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Dr.
             Oats
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               This
               Dr.
               
                 Oats
                 ▪
              
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               desire
               may
               be
               asked
               when
               was
               the
               first
               time
               he
               ever
               saw
               me
               in
               his
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               was
               the
               first
               time
               ,
               Dr
               Oats
               ,
               you
               saw
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               first
               time
               I
               saw
               this
               Gentleman
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               was
               ,
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               at
               Mr.
               Fenwicks
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               was
               in
               
                 Drury
                 ▪
                 lane
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               That
               was
               ,
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               in
               June
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               it
               that
               time
               the
               Commission
               you
               spoke
               of
               was
               delivered
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               see
               that
               Commission
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               read
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               From
               whom
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               be
               positive
               as
               to
               that
               ;
               but
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               it
               was
               signed
               as
               the
               rest
               was
               signed
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Johannes
               Paulus
               Oliva
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               read
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               I
               did
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               It
               was
               a
               Commission
               to
               be
               Pay-Master
               of
               the
               Army
               ,
               was
               it
               not
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               And
               it
               was
               delivered
               to
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               By
               the
               Name
               of
               Mr.
               Howard
               of
               Effingham
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               says
               your
               Lordship
               to
               this
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               it
               possible
               for
               me
               to
               say
               against
               this
               ?
               I
               declare
               to
               your
               Lordships
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               God
               ,
               I
               never
               saw
               the
               man
               in
               my
               life
               ;
               I
               never
               went
               by
               any
               Name
               ,
               since
               I
               had
               the
               Honour
               of
               being
               a
               Peer
               ,
               but
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Stafford
               ;
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               Mr.
               Fenwick
               the
               Jesuit
               ,
               nor
               by
               the
               name
               Thompson
               ,
               till
               this
               Plot
               was
               discovered
               ,
               and
               he
               taken
               .
               This
               you
               may
               believe
               ,
               or
               not
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               ;
               but
               this
               is
               as
               true
               as
               I
               am
               alive
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               have
               out
               of
               the
               Journals
               the
               Deposition
               on
               which
               I
               was
               committed
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Turn
               to
               the
               Journal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               read
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               Friday
               25.
               
               Octob.
               (
               78.
               )
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Clerk
             turned
             to
             the
             Journal
             ,
             and
             read
             .
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         
                           Die
                           Veneris
                           25.
                           die
                           Octobris
                           ,
                           1678.
                           
                        
                      
                    
                     
                       THe
                       Lord
                       Viscount
                       Stafford
                       acquainted
                       the
                       House
                       ,
                       That
                       he
                       was
                       informed
                       that
                       there
                       was
                       a
                       Warrant
                       issued
                       out
                       from
                       the
                       Lord
                       Chief
                       Justice
                       of
                       England
                       to
                       apprehend
                       him
                       ;
                       which
                       he
                       thought
                       fit
                       to
                       acquaint
                       their
                       Lordships
                       with
                       ,
                       and
                       submitted
                       himself
                       their
                       Lordships
                       Judgment
                       .
                    
                     
                       The
                       Lord
                       Chief
                       Justice
                       (
                       being
                       present
                       )
                       was
                       commanded
                       to
                       give
                       the
                       House
                       an
                       account
                       of
                       the
                       business
                       ;
                       who
                       said
                       ,
                       That
                       last
                       night
                       about
                       nine
                       of
                       the
                       clock
                       he
                       received
                       a
                       Letter
                       from
                       the
                       Speaker
                       of
                       the
                       House
                       of
                       Commons
                       ,
                       dated
                       from
                       the
                       Speakers
                       Chair
                       ,
                       to
                       come
                       to
                       the
                       House
                       of
                       Commons
                       about
                       business
                       of
                       great
                       concernment
                       .
                       Accordingly
                       he
                       attended
                       the
                       House
                       of
                       Commons
                       ;
                       where
                       the
                       Speaker
                       told
                       him
                       ,
                       that
                       the
                       House
                       of
                       Commons
                       had
                       receiv'd
                       Accusations
                       of
                       High
                       Treason
                       against
                       five
                       Lords
                       and
                       some
                       Gentlemen
                       ,
                       and
                       desired
                       him
                       to
                       issue
                       out
                       his
                       Warrants
                       for
                       their
                       
                       Apprehension
                       .
                       The
                       Persons
                       were
                       ,
                       the
                       Earl
                       of
                       Powis
                       ,
                       Viscount
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       the
                       Lord
                       Arundel
                       of
                       Wardour
                       ,
                       the
                       Lord
                       Petres
                       ,
                       and
                       the
                       Lord
                       Bellasis
                       .
                       And
                       upon
                       this
                       he
                       issued
                       out
                       his
                       Warrants
                       for
                       their
                       Apprehension
                       ,
                       having
                       taken
                       the
                       Examination
                       of
                       
                         Titus
                         Oats
                      
                       upon
                       Oath
                       .
                       That
                       the
                       Earl
                       of
                       Powis
                       and
                       the
                       Lord
                       Arundel
                       were
                       brought
                       to
                       him
                       this
                       morning
                       in
                       custody
                       ,
                       and
                       he
                       advised
                       them
                       to
                       render
                       themselves
                       to
                       the
                       Gatehouse
                       ,
                       where
                       now
                       they
                       are
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             Upon
             this
             the
             Examination
             of
             Oats
             was
             read
             ;
             whereby
             it
             did
             appear
             ,
             That
             the
             Lord
             Viscount
             Stafford
             was
             charged
             to
             be
             in
             a
             Conspiracy
             of
             Treason
             against
             the
             King.
             
          
           
             The
             Lord
             Viscount
             Stafford
             denyed
             the
             Fact
             ,
             and
             after
             this
             ,
             withdrew
             .
             And
             after
             a
             while
             the
             House
             was
             informed
             that
             his
             Lordship
             would
             render
             himself
             to
             the
             Lord
             Chief
             Justice
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               This
               is
               all
               that
               is
               in
               the
               Journal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               remember
               ,
               all
               of
               you
               that
               were
               there
               ,
               that
               I
               was
               accused
               by
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               whose
               Depositions
               I
               desire
               to
               see
               ,
               taken
               before
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               seen
               Letters
               of
               mine
               written
               to
               
                 Fenwick
                 ,
                 Harcourt
              
               ,
               and
               some
               others
               ,
               three
               or
               four
               Jesuits
               ,
               in
               which
               I
               was
               consenting
               to
               the
               Plot
               ,
               that
               I
               had
               sent
               my
               Son
               to
               Lisbon
               ,
               yet
               I
               would
               be
               as
               kind
               to
               the
               Jesuits
               as
               before
               ,
               though
               there
               was
               some
               difference
               between
               us
               .
               These
               Affidavits
               I
               desire
               to
               see
               ,
               which
               as
               I
               take
               it
               were
               read
               before
               your
               Lordships
               that
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Affidavit
               was
               taken
               by
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               where
               he
               did
               attend
               them
               upon
               their
               Summons
               :
               I
               know
               not
               if
               the
               Original
               were
               read
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               or
               the
               Copy
               ;
               but
               it
               seems
               it
               is
               not
               entred
               into
               the
               Lords
               Journal
               ,
               but
               your
               Lordship
               had
               an
               Order
               to
               take
               Copies
               of
               all
               things
               you
               would
               have
               demanded
               ,
               and
               if
               you
               would
               not
               ,
               I
               cannot
               tell
               what
               to
               say
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Truly
               I
               could
               not
               take
               a
               Copy
               ,
               because
               I
               did
               not
               know
               where
               it
               was
               .
               I
               desire
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               may
               be
               asked
               where
               it
               is
               ,
               that
               is
               all
               I
               desire
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               then
               go
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               think
               Dr.
               Oats
               does
               say
               at
               this
               time
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               seen
               Letters
               of
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               offering
               your
               Correspondence
               and
               Assistance
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               Dr.
               Oats
               will
               own
               he
               said
               no
               more
               than
               is
               in
               that
               Affidavit
               ,
               I
               am
               content
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               any
               Copy
               of
               your
               own
               Examination
               Doctor
               Oats
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               have
               it
               here
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Marry
               ,
               that
               is
               very
               well
               ,
               produce
               it
               then
               .
               Do
               you
               oppose
               it
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               we
               agree
               ,
               we
               desire
               the
               Truth
               may
               come
               out
               .
               Then
               Dr.
               Oats
               looking
               amongst
               his
               Papers
               drew
               out
               one
               ,
               and
               offered
               it
               to
               the
               Court.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               that
               a
               true
               Copy
               of
               your
               first
               Examination
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oates
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               swear
               it
               ,
               but
               it
               was
               given
               me
               for
               a
               true
               Copy
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               By
               whom
               was
               it
               given
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oates
               .
            
             
               I
               can't
               remember
               now
               ,
               't
               is
               two
               years
               ago
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Unless
               we
               know
               whence
               it
               comes
               ,
               or
               what
               authority
               it
               hath
               ,
               we
               cannot
               consent
               it
               should
               be
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Had
               you
               it
               from
               my
               Lord
               Cheif
               Justice
               ,
               or
               any
               servant
               of
               his
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oates
               .
            
             
               I
               can't
               tell
               whether
               Sir
               
                 Charles
                 Harbord
              
               gave
               it
               me
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Sir
               
                 Charles
                 Harbord
              
               might
               be
               of
               the
               Committee
               of
               Examinations
               ,
               but
               the
               Examination
               for
               which
               my
               Lord
               asked
               was
               not
               in
               the
               Committee
               nor
               before
               the
               house
               .
               My
               Lord
               chief
               Justice
               retired
               out
               of
               the
               house
               &
               
                 Virtute
                 Officii
              
               took
               it
               .
               Now
               it
               was
               very
               fair
               in
               Mr.
               Oates
               to
               produce
               it
               ,
               but
               yet
               in
               point
               of
               Evidence
               ,
               if
               he
               will
               not
               swear
               it
               to
               be
               a
               true
               Copy
               ,
               or
               give
               an
               account
               how
               he
               came
               by
               it
               ,
               we
               cannot
               allow
               it
               to
               be
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               'T
               is
               you
               that
               want
               this
               Paper
               ,
               you
               desire
               to
               have
               the
               benefit
               of
               the
               Examination
               that
               was
               taken
               of
               Mr.
               Oates
               ,
               and
               therefore
               you
               must
               produce
               a
               Copy
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               could
               never
               get
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               not
               entred
               in
               our
               Journal
               ,
               nor
               is
               it
               to
               be
               traced
               ,
               we
               know
               not
               where
               it
               is
               .
               You
               have
               had
               time
               enough
               to
               look
               after
               it
               .
               You
               are
               now
               offered
               by
               Oates
               himself
               a
               Copy
               that
               was
               given
               him
               for
               a
               true
               Copy
               ,
               though
               he
               can't
               swear
               by
               whom
               .
               Are
               you
               content
               that
               shall
               be
               read
               ,
               if
               the
               Gentlemen
               will
               admit
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               By
               what
               I
               guess
               of
               Dr.
               Oates
               ,
               (
               I
               know
               him
               not
               )
               he
               would
               not
               give
               in
               a
               Copy
               of
               an
               Examination
               unless
               it
               were
               true
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               true
               I
               know
               not
               what
               should
               hinder
               the
               reading
               of
               it
               ;
               but
               as
               far
               as
               concerns
               me
               I
               desire
               it
               may
               be
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               do
               Consent
               ,
               and
               will
               you
               Gentlemen
               permit
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               We
               do
               not
               know
               whence
               it
               comes
               ,
               we
               can't
               admit
               it
               unless
               Oates
               says
               't
               is
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               hath
               been
               long
               in
               the
               Doctors
               possession
               ,
               he
               hath
               read
               it
               over
               ,
               he
               can't
               say
               't
               is
               a
               true
               Copy
               ,
               but
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               all
               in
               that
               writing
               be
               true
               ?
               and
               whether
               he
               did
               swear
               what
               is
               in
               that
               writing
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               thus
               ,
               and
               you
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               :
               The
               best
               way
               to
               have
               an
               answer
               to
               this
               Question
               is
               ,
               that
               it
               may
               be
               read
               
                 de
                 bene
                 esse
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Pray
               my
               Lords
               ,
               let
               him
               read
               it
               over
               to
               himself
               privately
               ,
               and
               then
               let
               us
               know
               whether
               he
               can
               swear
               the
               same
               things
               that
               are
               in
               that
               Paper
               .
               
                 (
                 which
                 Dr.
                 Oates
                 began
                 to
                 do
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordships
               ask
               only
               as
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               desires
               no
               more
               ,
               but
               pray
               read
               it
               over
               all
               ,
               and
               give
               your
               Answer
               to
               all
               ;
               for
               that
               Question
               ,
               may
               be
               ,
               will
               be
               asked
               in
               other
               Cases
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               fit
               you
               should
               be
               provided
               for
               it
               .
               
                 (
                 which
                 he
                 did
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               Doctor
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               verily
               believe
               I
               did
               swear
               the
               Contents
               of
               that
               Paper
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               oppose
               the
               reading
               of
               that
               Paper
               ,
               but
               I
               have
               here
               a
               Copy
               of
               something
               in
               the
               Journal
               ,
               and
               do
               not
               stand
               upon
               my
               memory
               ;
               but
               I
               think
               upon
               the
               viewing
               of
               it
               now
               ,
               there
               is
               something
               in
               the
               Copies
               of
               the
               Journal
               .
            
          
           
             
               Clerks
               .
            
             
               We
               cannot
               find
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               read
               this
               Paper
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Will
               you
               have
               this
               Copy
               of
               the
               Examination
               read
               ,
               or
               not
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Clerk.
               
            
             
               The
               Examination
               of
               
                 Titus
                 Oats
              
               Clerk
               ,
               taken
               before
               us
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Clerk.
               
            
             
               The
               24.
               of
               October
               1678.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               That
               was
               read
               the
               25.
               the
               next
               day
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 
                   
                     The
                     Examination
                     of
                     
                       Titus
                       Oats
                    
                     Clerk
                     ,
                     taken
                     by
                     us
                     the
                     24.
                     of
                     
                       October
                       1678.
                    
                     
                  
                   
                     THis
                     Examinant
                     saith
                     ,
                     That
                     in
                     the
                     Month
                     of
                     May
                     last
                     ,
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     a
                     Patent
                     under
                     the
                     Seal
                     of
                     the
                     Father
                     general
                     of
                     the
                     Society
                     of
                     Jesus
                     at
                     Rome
                     ,
                     called
                     
                       Johannes
                       Paulus
                       Oliva
                    
                     ,
                     at
                     the
                     Chamber
                     of
                     Mr.
                     Langhorn
                     ,
                     wherein
                     it
                     was
                     expressed
                     ,
                     That
                     by
                     vertue
                     of
                     a
                     Breve
                     from
                     the
                     Pope
                     ,
                     he
                     did
                     Constitute
                     the
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     Lord
                     High
                     Chancellor
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     which
                     Patent
                     was
                     sent
                     to
                     the
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     of
                     Wardour
                     by
                     a
                     Messenger
                     ,
                     who
                     was
                     the
                     Son
                     of
                     Mr.
                     Langhorn
                     ;
                     And
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saith
                     ,
                     That
                     he
                     saw
                     a
                     Letter
                     subscribed
                     by
                     the
                     Lord
                     Arundell
                     of
                     Wardour
                     as
                     he
                     believes
                     ,
                     wherein
                     the
                     Lord
                     Arundel
                     did
                     acknowledge
                     the
                     receipt
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Patent
                     ,
                     and
                     accepted
                     of
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     promised
                     to
                     answer
                     the
                     expectation
                     of
                     the
                     Society
                     .
                  
                   
                     This
                     Examinant
                     saith
                     ,
                     That
                     in
                     June
                     last
                     he
                     saw
                     the
                     like
                     Patent
                     ,
                     wherein
                     the
                     Lord
                     Powis
                     was
                     Constituted
                     Lord
                     Treasurer
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     which
                     Patent
                     was
                     carried
                     by
                     one
                     Parsons
                     Secretary
                     to
                     the
                     Lord
                     Powis
                     from
                     one
                     Saunders
                     House
                     in
                     Wild-street
                     to
                     be
                     delivered
                     to
                     the
                     Lord
                     Powis
                     ,
                     and
                     at
                     the
                     delivery
                     of
                     the
                     Patent
                     3001
                     ,
                     was
                     paid
                     by
                     Parsons
                     to
                     Fenwick
                     and
                     Ireland
                     to
                     carry
                     on
                     the
                     design
                     of
                     the
                     Jesuits
                     ,
                     which
                     was
                     to
                     raise
                     a
                     Rebellion
                     in
                     the
                     three
                     Kingdoms
                     and
                     to
                     destroy
                     the
                     King.
                     
                  
                   
                     In
                     the
                     Month
                     of
                     July
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     a
                     Letter
                     subscribed
                     Powis
                     ,
                     and
                     directed
                     to
                     Fenwick
                     ,
                     wherein
                     his
                     Lordship
                     did
                     acknowledge
                     the
                     receipt
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Patent
                     ,
                     and
                     did
                     accept
                     of
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     said
                     he
                     had
                     300
                     Men
                     and
                     Horse
                     ready
                     for
                     the
                     Design
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     his
                     Lordship
                     would
                     venture
                     his
                     life
                     and
                     fortune
                     in
                     the
                     Affair
                     .
                  
                   
                   
                     In
                     the
                     month
                     of
                     August
                     last
                     ,
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     a
                     Letter
                     directed
                     to
                     Mr.
                     Langhorn
                     by
                     the
                     outside
                     ,
                     but
                     within
                     to
                     the
                     Society
                     of
                     the
                     Jesuits
                     ,
                     wherein
                     Sir
                     
                       William
                       Godolphin
                    
                     acknowledged
                     he
                     had
                     received
                     the
                     like
                     Patent
                     to
                     be
                     Lord
                     Privy
                     Seal
                     ,
                     and
                     had
                     accepted
                     thereof
                     ,
                     and
                     in
                     July
                     1677.
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     the
                     same
                     in
                     the
                     hands
                     of
                     the
                     Archbishop
                     of
                     Tuam
                     ,
                     at
                     Madrid
                     in
                     Spain
                     .
                  
                   
                     This
                     Examinant
                     saith
                     ,
                     that
                     in
                     July
                     last
                     Mr.
                     Coleman
                     ackowledged
                     and
                     confessed
                     to
                     Fenwick
                     in
                     this
                     Examinants
                     presence
                     ,
                     that
                     he
                     had
                     received
                     the
                     like
                     Patent
                     to
                     be
                     Secretary
                     of
                     State
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     it
                     was
                     a
                     good
                     exchange
                     .
                  
                   
                     This
                     Examinant
                     saith
                     ,
                     that
                     in
                     
                       May
                       ,
                       June
                       ,
                       July
                    
                     and
                     August
                     last
                     ,
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     several
                     Letters
                     signed
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     whereby
                     it
                     appeared
                     that
                     the
                     Lord
                     Stafford
                     was
                     in
                     this
                     Conspiracy
                     against
                     His
                     Majesty
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     he
                     had
                     returned
                     several
                     Sums
                     of
                     Mony
                     to
                     the
                     Jesuits
                     to
                     carry
                     on
                     the
                     Design
                     ,
                     the
                     Letters
                     were
                     directed
                     to
                     Fenwick
                     and
                     Ireland
                     ,
                     and
                     in
                     August
                     last
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     another
                     Letter
                     directed
                     to
                     the
                     same
                     persons
                     signed
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     wherein
                     my
                     Lord
                     writ
                     ,
                     that
                     although
                     he
                     had
                     sent
                     his
                     Son
                     to
                     Lisbon
                     ,
                     yet
                     he
                     would
                     be
                     ne'r
                     the
                     worse
                     friend
                     to
                     the
                     Jesuits
                     ,
                     and
                     this
                     Examinant
                     conceiveth
                     the
                     Reason
                     of
                     that
                     Letter
                     was
                     ,
                     because
                     there
                     was
                     then
                     a
                     difference
                     between
                     the
                     English
                     Colledge
                     at
                     Lisbon
                     and
                     the
                     Jesuits
                     ;
                     in
                     July
                     last
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     in
                     the
                     hands
                     of
                     Fenwick
                     a
                     Commission
                     directed
                     to
                     the
                     Lord
                     Bellasis
                     from
                     the
                     person
                     aforesaid
                     ,
                     to
                     be
                     Lord
                     General
                     of
                     the
                     Army
                     to
                     be
                     raised
                     in
                     England
                     against
                     His
                     Majesty
                     ,
                     and
                     in
                     July
                     this
                     Examinant
                     saw
                     a
                     Letter
                     from
                     my
                     Lord
                     directed
                     to
                     Fenwick
                     ,
                     wherein
                     his
                     Lordship
                     acknowledged
                     the
                     receipt
                     of
                     the
                     Commission
                     ,
                     and
                     thanked
                     the
                     Society
                     for
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     he
                     accepted
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     would
                     do
                     what
                     in
                     him
                     lay
                     to
                     answer
                     their
                     expectations
                     .
                  
                   
                     In
                     May
                     last
                     this
                     Examminant
                     saw
                     a
                     Patent
                     in
                     the
                     hands
                     of
                     Mr.
                     Langhorn
                     to
                     make
                     my
                     Lord
                     Petres
                     Lieutenant-General
                     of
                     the
                     Army
                     ,
                     and
                     in
                     June
                     last
                     ,
                     this
                     Examinant
                     did
                     hear
                     my
                     Lord
                     Petres
                     in
                     the
                     presence
                     of
                     Mr.
                     Longworth
                     his
                     Confessor
                     acknowledge
                     the
                     receipt
                     of
                     the
                     same
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     he
                     accepted
                     thereof
                     ,
                     and
                     his
                     Confessor
                     wished
                     him
                     much
                     joy
                     thereof
                     .
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               this
               be
               owned
               for
               truth
               that
               he
               swore
               ,
               then
               I
               proceed
               upon
               the
               Evidence
               of
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Without
               allowing
               it
               to
               be
               a
               true
               Copy
               ,
               Dr.
               Oats
               at
               the
               Bar
               does
               swear
               ,
               what
               is
               said
               there
               is
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               he
               says
               there
               ,
               he
               saw
               Letters
               signed
               by
               me
               to
               Fenwick
               and
               others
               ,
               I
               do
               humbly
               desire
               to
               know
               whether
               that
               be
               Evidence
               or
               no
               ,
               that
               a
               man
               says
               he
               saw
               Letters
               ,
               and
               does
               not
               say
               he
               knew
               them
               to
               be
               my
               hand
               ,
               nor
               what
               the
               Letters
               were
               in
               particular
               ,
               nothing
               that
               he
               did
               prove
               of
               it
               .
               I
               must
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               to
               all
               my
               Lords
               ,
               to
               my
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               ,
               and
               the
               rest
               that
               were
               of
               the
               Council
               at
               that
               time
               ;
               whether
               Dr.
               Oats
               did
               not
               positively
               name
               some
               ,
               and
               left
               ne
               out
               at
               the
               Council
               Table
               ?
               And
               whether
               Dr.
               Oats
               did
               not
               say
               there
               was
               no
               Lord
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               whether
               some
               of
               my
               Lords
               
               did
               not
               say
               so
               ,
               and
               told
               some
               other
               Lords
               of
               it
               ,
               from
               whom
               I
               had
               it
               ?
               And
               in
               order
               to
               this
               desire
               Sir
               
                 Philip
                 Lloyd
              
               may
               be
               examined
               ,
               and
               if
               he
               did
               not
               know
               of
               my
               being
               in
               it
               ,
               then
               he
               hath
               since
               forsworn
               himself
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               know
               not
               where
               you
               are
               ,
               nor
               what
               you
               are
               about
               ,
               are
               you
               objecting
               against
               Oats
               upon
               any
               Evidence
               out
               of
               the
               Journal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               go
               upon
               this
               that
               hath
               been
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               my
               Lord
               produce
               your
               Witnesses
               that
               did
               hear
               him
               say
               any
               thing
               ,
               and
               take
               your
               advantage
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               
                 call
                 Sir
              
               Philip
               Lloyd
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               is
               Sir
               
                 Philip
                 Lloyd
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               ,
               I
               think
               he
               is
               here
               ,
               I
               hope
               he
               will
               come
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             he
             appeared
             amongst
             the
             Members
             of
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             ,
             and
             was
             called
             to
             the
             Bar
             amongst
             the
             other
             Witnesses
             ,
             and
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               does
               your
               Lordship
               ask
               Sir
               
                 Philip
                 Lloyd
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Whether
               he
               was
               not
               by
               when
               Dr.
               Oats
               was
               asked
               ,
               if
               there
               were
               any
               Lords
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               he
               said
               no
               ;
               and
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               tell
               me
               so
               a
               day
               or
               two
               before
               I
               was
               committed
               in
               the
               P●inces
               Lodgings
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               Sir
               
                 Philip
                 ●loyd
              
               did
               you
               ever
               hear
               Dr.
               Oats
               deny
               upon
               his
               Oath
               ,
               that
               ever
               he
               heard
               of
               any
               Lords
               that
               were
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Philip
               Lloyd
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Truly
               I
               cannot
               remember
               any
               such
               thing
               .
               If
               my
               Lord
               put
               me
               in
               mind
               of
               any
               particular
               Circumstance
               or
               time
               ,
               I
               may
               recollect
               it
               ;
               I
               must
               confess
               I
               think
               I
               have
               heard
               such
               a
               thing
               rumor'd
               ,
               but
               I
               am
               so
               unfortunate
               I
               cannot
               remember
               any
               thing
               positively
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               did
               tell
               me
               so
               I
               am
               sure
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Philip
               Lloyd
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               be
               glad
               to
               remember
               any
               thing
               to
               justifie
               the
               Truth
               ,
               but
               I
               can't
               remember
               this
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               whether
               it
               were
               so
               or
               no
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               that
               were
               of
               the
               Council
               can
               tell
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               .
               Your
               Lordship
               cannot
               be
               refused
               if
               you
               press
               it
               ,
               to
               ask
               any
               of
               the
               Lords
               of
               the
               Council
               ,
               if
               they
               remember
               any
               such
               thing
               that
               did
               pass
               there
               ;
               but
               if
               I
               were
               there
               or
               in
               the
               Council
               ,
               I
               deal
               plainly
               with
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               that
               there
               was
               any
               such
               thing
               said
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               there
               be
               any
               here
               that
               were
               there
               besides
               ,
               I
               desire
               they
               may
               be
               asked
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordship
               will
               call
               upon
               any
               other
               of
               my
               Lords
               that
               were
               there
               ,
               they
               will
               tell
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               know
               who
               were
               there
               ,
               I
               can't
               call
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               may
               ask
               any
               of
               the
               Lords
               of
               the
               Council
               who
               were
               there
               that
               time
               Dr.
               Oats
               was
               examined
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               at
               the
               Council
               then
               ,
               but
               I
               heard
               it
               ,
               not
               there
               indeed
               ,
               but
               as
               a
               general
               Report
               abroad
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               my
               Lord
               Privy
               Seal
               may
               tell
               what
               he
               knows
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               it
               your
               Lordship
               would
               know
               of
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whether
               Oats
               did
               not
               say
               ,
               he
               had
               no
               more
               to
               accuse
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               Where
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               At
               the
               Council
               Table
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               a
               very
               hard
               thing
               for
               me
               to
               charge
               my
               memory
               with
               all
               the
               Questions
               at
               an
               Examination
               ,
               we
               use
               to
               refer
               to
               the
               Examinations
               themselves
               ;
               I
               have
               seen
               some
               Examinations
               ,
               I
               wish
               all
               were
               so
               ,
               wherein
               the
               Questions
               are
               put
               down
               as
               well
               as
               the
               Answers
               ,
               and
               I
               cannot
               charge
               my
               memory
               that
               he
               said
               ,
               he
               had
               no
               more
               to
               accuse
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               desire
               then
               all
               the
               Lords
               of
               the
               Council
               that
               are
               here
               to
               say
               whether
               or
               no
               he
               was
               not
               asked
               this
               Question
               particularly
               by
               my
               Lord
               Chancellor
               ,
               (
               and
               I
               desire
               particularly
               his
               Lordship
               would
               say
               ,
               whether
               he
               can't
               remember
               it
               )
               whether
               he
               had
               any
               thing
               to
               say
               against
               some
               Lords
               ,
               and
               he
               answered
               ,
               they
               were
               to
               know
               of
               it
               ,
               but
               God
               forbid
               he
               should
               accuse
               them
               !
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               should
               that
               be
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can't
               say
               the
               day
               ,
               for
               I
               was
               not
               in
               Town
               .
               But
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               whether
               you
               did
               not
               ask
               him
               upon
               the
               first
               Discovery
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               whether
               he
               had
               any
               thing
               to
               say
               against
               some
               Lords
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               desire
               to
               know
               whether
               I
               asked
               him
               this
               Question
               ,
               if
               he
               had
               any
               thing
               to
               say
               against
               some
               Lords
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               say
               positively
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               but
               whether
               that
               Question
               was
               not
               asked
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Certainly
               I
               should
               never
               ask
               any
               such
               Question
               of
               any
               man
               alive
               .
               I
               might
               ask
               in
               general
               of
               any
               Lord
               ,
               but
               not
               of
               some
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Some
               or
               other
               Lords
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               don't
               remember
               it
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               impossible
               for
               any
               man
               living
               to
               remember
               ,
               what
               Questions
               he
               did
               ask
               two
               or
               three
               years
               ago
               upon
               an
               Examination
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               have
               leave
               to
               ask
               the
               Earl
               of
               Berkley
               a
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               it
               you
               would
               ask
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               humbly
               ask
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               hear
               Dr.
               Oats
               say
               ,
               after
               he
               had
               accused
               some
               persons
               before
               the
               Council
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               no
               more
               to
               accuse
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Berkley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               had
               the
               Honour
               to
               be
               of
               the
               Privy
               Council
               about
               the
               time
               of
               the
               Discovery
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               that
               I
               heard
               Dr.
               Oats
               say
               any
               such
               thing
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Or
               ,
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               ,
               for
               I
               may
               mistake
               .
               And
               therefore
               I
               desire
               my
               Lord
               of
               Berkley
               would
               declare
               what
               he
               heard
               Dr.
               Oats
               say
               before
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Earl
               of
               Berkley
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ;
               in
               the
               Lords
               House
               I
               will
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               what
               I
               remember
               .
               My
               Lord
               Chancellor
               ,
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               ,
               did
               ask
               Dr.
               Oats
               at
               the
               Bar
               of
               the
               House
               ,
               this
               Question
               —
               My
               Lords
               desire
               to
               know
               if
               you
               can
               accuse
               any
               other
               Person
               or
               Persons
               of
               what
               Quality
               soever
               ,
               and
               you
               are
               incouraged
               by
               their
               Lordships
               to
               Accuse
               them
               :
               His
               Answer
               was
               —
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               accuse
               in
               relation
               to
               England
               ,
               but
               in
               relation
               to
               Ireland
               ,
               I
               have
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               That
               was
               after
               he
               had
               accused
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               may
               have
               the
               favour
               to
               ask
               that
               very
               Honourable
               Lord
               ,
               at
               what
               time
               Dr.
               Oats
               said
               this
               ,
               for
               the
               satisfaction
               of
               those
               that
               are
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Berkley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               after
               Dr.
               Oats
               had
               accused
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               but
               before
               he
               had
               accused
               the
               Queen
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               to
               mark
               it
               (
               and
               I
               am
               very
               glad
               of
               it
               )
               he
               said
               he
               had
               no
               more
               to
               accuse
               in
               relation
               to
               England
               ,
               and
               yet
               after
               that
               he
               accused
               the
               Queen
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               then
               the
               best
               account
               of
               it
               will
               be
               on
               the
               Journal
               ,
               the
               Question
               and
               Answer
               is
               entred
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         Die
                         Jovis
                         31.
                         die
                         Octobr.
                         1678.
                         
                         Post
                         Meridiem
                         .
                      
                    
                  
                   
                     
                       TItus
                       Oats
                    
                     being
                     at
                     the
                     Bar
                     ,
                     is
                     directed
                     to
                     proceed
                     in
                     giving
                     an
                     Account
                     of
                     the
                     Commissions
                     given
                     to
                     several
                     Lords
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     Persons
                     for
                     Offices
                     Civil
                     and
                     Military
                     .
                  
                   
                     Upon
                     which
                     he
                     proceeded
                     in
                     a
                     particular
                     Narrative
                     thereof
                     ,
                     with
                     some
                     Circumstances
                     tending
                     to
                     make
                     out
                     the
                     truth
                     thereof
                     ,
                     and
                     then
                     was
                     commanded
                     to
                     withdraw
                     ,
                     but
                     stay
                     without
                     .
                  
                   
                     Then
                     upon
                     Consideration
                     had
                     hereof
                     ,
                     the
                     Lord
                     Chancellor
                     by
                     directions
                     of
                     the
                     House
                     caused
                     him
                     to
                     be
                     called
                     in
                     again
                     ,
                     and
                     told
                     him
                     ,
                     that
                     the
                     Lords
                     expect
                     not
                     his
                     entring
                     into
                     particular
                     Circumstances
                     ,
                     but
                     if
                     there
                     be
                     particular
                     Persons
                     concerned
                     ,
                     of
                     what
                     Quality
                     soever
                     they
                     be
                     ,
                     the
                     House
                     expected
                     he
                     should
                     name
                     them
                     ,
                     but
                     he
                     named
                     none
                     but
                     those
                     he
                     had
                     mentioned
                     in
                     his
                     Narrative
                     ,
                     nor
                     could
                     name
                     no
                     other
                     Person
                     .
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               He
               knew
               no
               Persons
               more
               than
               he
               he
               had
               discovered
               :
               and
               after
               ,
               did
               he
               not
               accuse
               the
               Queen
               and
               several
               others
               ?
               if
               he
               said
               true
               ,
               then
               he
               knew
               no
               body
               more
               ,
               if
               not
               ,
               he
               is
               Forsworn
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Pray
               prove
               he
               did
               Accuse
               the
               Queen
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               did
               so
               in
               the
               Council
               ,
               and
               he
               is
               clearly
               Perjured
               in
               that
               ,
               and
               so
               not
               to
               be
               believed
               .
               And
               I
               say
               besides
               ,
               after
               that
               Dr.
               Oats
               had
               consulted
               with
               himself
               and
               possibly
               with
               some
               others
               what
               his
               Narrative
               should
               be
               ,
               and
               what
               he
               should
               accuse
               Persons
               of
               ,
               and
               did
               only
               accuse
               me
               of
               seeing
               some
               Letters
               signed
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               now
               he
               comes
               to
               give
               Evidence
               he
               knows
               more
               ,
               of
               my
               having
               a
               Commission
               :
               After
               this
               rate
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               he
               may
               know
               a
               great
               deal
               more
               to
               morrow
               ,
               when
               he
               hath
               invented
               it
               :
               And
               't
               is
               a
               great
               sign
               he
               did
               not
               know
               of
               any
               more
               ,
               if
               he
               did
               know
               of
               that
               ;
               for
               I
               never
               had
               any
               Correspondence
               with
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               nor
               any
               business
               transacted
               with
               them
               these
               twenty
               four
               or
               twenty
               five
               years
               .
               Indeed
               at
               Ghent
               the
               English
               Jesuits
               were
               desired
               to
               do
               a
               little
               thing
               for
               me
               ,
               and
               they
               refused
               it
               me
               :
               it
               was
               to
               send
               over
               a
               man
               that
               was
               to
               be
               a
               Witness
               in
               a
               Suit
               I
               had
               beyond
               Sea.
               And
               I
               never
               writ
               one
               Letter
               to
               a
               Jesuit
               since
               ,
               nor
               he
               to
               me
               that
               I
               know
               of
               ,
               nor
               never
               had
               to
               do
               with
               them
               that
               I
               know
               of
               :
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               Fenwicks
               Name
               nor
               Harcourts
               till
               I
               heard
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               nor
               of
               Johnson
               nor
               Thompson
               Jesuits
               :
               and
               if
               any
               can
               prove
               it
               ,
               I
               will
               acknowledge
               my self
               guilty
               of
               all
               that
               is
               said
               against
               me
               .
               And
               for
               that
               Dr.
               Oats
               at
               first
               said
               ,
               He
               only
               saw
               Letters
               of
               mine
               ,
               and
               after
               comes
               and
               accuses
               me
               of
               a
               Commission
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               if
               there
               can
               be
               any
               truth
               or
               belief
               in
               him
               .
               I
               cannot
               say
               more
               than
               what
               I
               have
               said
               already
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               challenge
               Dr.
               Oats
               at
               the
               day
               of
               Judgment
               to
               say
               ,
               if
               ever
               he
               saw
               me
               in
               his
               life
               till
               I
               was
               committed
               ,
               or
               if
               I
               did
               ever
               go
               by
               any
               Name
               ,
               but
               that
               of
               
                 Stafford
                 ,
                 I
              
               will
               be
               content
               to
               dye
               immediately
               .
               If
               I
               had
               gone
               by
               the
               Name
               of
               
                 Howard
                 I
              
               need
               not
               be
               ashamed
               of
               it
               ,
               for
               't
               is
               a
               Name
               good
               enough
               to
               be
               owned
               .
               I
               know
               there
               is
               a
               worthy
               Gentleman
               that
               bears
               the
               Name
               of
               Howard
               of
               Effingham
               ,
               but
               I
               never
               did
               .
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               let
               me
               ask
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               one
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               Dugdale
               again
               ,
               
                 (
                 who
                 appeared
                 .
                 )
              
               What
               say
               you
               to
               him
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               Dugdale
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               in
               his
               Depositions
               before
               Mr.
               Lane
               and
               Mr.
               Vernon
               swear
               ,
               that
               the
               20
               th
               .
               of
               
                 October
                 ,
                 I
              
               offered
               him
               500
               l.
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               September
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               September
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               did
               make
               that
               Deposition
               before
               Captain
               Lane.
               I
               am
               certain
               I
               did
               that
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               the
               20
               th
               .
               or
               21
               th
               .
               of
               September
               offered
               me
               500
               l.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               did
               not
               he
               say
               presently
               upon
               this
               he
               went
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               Chamber
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               says
               so
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               certain
               it
               was
               the
               same
               day
               ,
               it
               was
               assoon
               as
               I
               could
               have
               opportunity
               ,
               it
               was
               presently
               after
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               not
               say
               he
               told
               Erers
               what
               I
               said
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               he
               did
               not
               understand
               the
               meaning
               of
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               say
               so
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               I
               did
               ask
               Mr.
               Evers
               what
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               meaning
               was
               ,
               whether
               his
               intention
               was
               true
               or
               no
               to
               do
               as
               he
               said
               ,
               and
               whether
               my
               Lord
               was
               in
               that
               Condition
               as
               to
               be
               able
               to
               perform
               his
               promise
               ,
               for
               I
               feared
               payment
               of
               the
               mony
               ,
               and
               he
               told
               me
               Harcourt
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               would
               furnish
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               So
               he
               said
               Yesterday
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Then
               ask
               him
               if
               he
               did
               not
               say
               ,
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               I
               met
               him
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               and
               I
               spake
               to
               him
               about
               such
               a
               business
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               say
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               Remembrance
               it
               was
               about
               that
               time
               ,
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               be
               positive
               ,
               nor
               could
               not
               to
               five
               days
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               I
               think
               not
               to
               5000.
               
               Then
               I
               askt
               him
               this
               Question
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               presently
               upon
               that
               ,
               when
               I
               told
               him
               about
               the
               Design
               ,
               go
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               and
               ask
               what
               it
               meant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               He
               said
               so
               but
               now
               ,
               he
               went
               to
               Evers
               and
               asked
               what
               you
               meant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               I
               may
               be
               understood
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               say
               in
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               which
               was
               before
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               in
               the
               Journal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               it
               in
               the
               Journal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               then
               ,
               read
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         Die
                         Sabbati
                         28.
                         
                         Decembris
                         ,
                         1678.
                         
                      
                    
                  
                   
                     The
                     Earl
                     of
                     Essex
                     acquainted
                     the
                     House
                     ,
                     that
                     he
                     had
                     received
                     an
                     Information
                     out
                     of
                     the
                     Countrey
                     of
                     very
                     great
                     Concernment
                     ,
                     which
                     was
                     read
                     as
                     followeth
                     .
                     
                       
                         
                           
                             
                               
                                 Staffordsh
                                 .
                                 
                                   December
                                   24th
                                   ,
                                   1678.
                                   
                                
                              
                            
                             
                               The
                               Information
                               of
                               
                                 Stephen
                                 Dugdale
                              
                               Gent.
                               late
                               servant
                               to
                               the
                               Lord
                               Aston
                               of
                               Tixal
                               ,
                               concerning
                               the
                               Plot
                               against
                               our
                               Soveraign
                               Lord
                               the
                               King
                               ,
                               as
                               followeth
                               .
                            
                             
                               1.
                               
                               THis
                               Informant
                               saith
                               ,
                               that
                               presently
                               after
                               one
                               Howard
                               Almoner
                               to
                               the
                               Queen
                               went
                               beyond
                               the
                               Seas
                               ,
                               he
                               was
                               told
                               by
                               
                                 George
                                 Hobson
                              
                               (
                               Servant
                               to
                               the
                               said
                               Lord
                               Aston
                               )
                               that
                               there
                               was
                               a
                               Design
                               then
                               intended
                               for
                               the
                               Reformation
                               of
                               the
                               Government
                               to
                               the
                               Romish
                               Religion
                               .
                            
                             
                               2.
                               
                               He
                               informeth
                               that
                               in
                               the
                               beginning
                               of
                               September
                               1678.
                               he
                               met
                               in
                               Tixal
                               ,
                               nigh
                               the
                               Lord's
                               Gates
                               ,
                               the
                               Lord
                               Stafford
                               ,
                               who
                               said
                               to
                               this
                               Informant
                               it
                               was
                               said
                               
                               that
                               they
                               were
                               troubled
                               for
                               that
                               they
                               could
                               no
                               say
                               their
                               Prayers
                               but
                               in
                               a
                               hid
                               manner
                               ,
                               but
                               suddenly
                               there
                               would
                               be
                               a
                               Reformation
                               to
                               the
                               Romish
                               Religion
                               ,
                               and
                               if
                               there
                               was
                               but
                               a
                               good
                               Success
                               they
                               should
                               enjoy
                               their
                               Religion
                               .
                               And
                               upon
                               the
                               20
                               th
                               .
                               day
                               of
                               September
                               last
                               ,
                               the
                               said
                               Lord
                               Stafford
                               told
                               this
                               Informant
                               that
                               there
                               was
                               a
                               Design
                               in
                               hand
                               ,
                               and
                               if
                               this
                               Informant
                               would
                               undertake
                               the
                               Design
                               ,
                               he
                               should
                               have
                               a
                               good
                               Reward
                               ,
                               and
                               make
                               himself
                               famous
                               .
                            
                             
                               3.
                               
                               Upon
                               the
                               aforesaid
                               day
                               immediately
                               after
                               ,
                               this
                               Informant
                               went
                               into
                               the
                               Chamber
                               of
                               Mr.
                               
                                 Francis
                                 Urie
                                 alias
                                 Evers
                              
                               (
                               a
                               Jesuit
                               )
                               in
                               Tixal-Hall
                               ,
                               and
                               asked
                               him
                               what
                               the
                               Lord
                               Stafford
                               meant
                               by
                               those
                               words
                               ,
                               and
                               after
                               he
                               had
                               made
                               him
                               to
                               swear
                               secresie
                               upon
                               his
                               knees
                               ,
                               he
                               told
                               him
                               he
                               might
                               be
                               a
                               person
                               imployed
                               in
                               the
                               work
                               ,
                               and
                               have
                               a
                               good
                               Reward
                               that
                               would
                               make
                               him
                               famous
                               :
                               and
                               then
                               he
                               told
                               him
                               he
                               must
                               be
                               instrumental
                               with
                               others
                               in
                               taking
                               away
                               the
                               Kings
                               life
                               ;
                               and
                               that
                               it
                               should
                               be
                               done
                               by
                               shooting
                               or
                               otherwise
                               .
                               And
                               that
                               this
                               Informant
                               need
                               not
                               to
                               fear
                               ,
                               for
                               the
                               Pope
                               had
                               excommunicated
                               the
                               King
                               ,
                               and
                               that
                               all
                               that
                               were
                               excommunicated
                               by
                               him
                               were
                               Hereticks
                               ,
                               and
                               they
                               might
                               kill
                               them
                               and
                               be
                               canoniz'd
                               for
                               Saints
                               in
                               so
                               doing
                               .
                            
                             
                               4.
                               
                               The
                               Informant
                               saith
                               ,
                               that
                               the
                               said
                               Evers
                               and
                               Hobson
                               both
                               said
                               ,
                               that
                               the
                               Design
                               was
                               as
                               well
                               to
                               kill
                               the
                               Duke
                               of
                               Monmouth
                               as
                               the
                               King.
                               
                            
                             
                               5.
                               
                               That
                               
                                 George
                                 North
                              
                               (
                               Nephew
                               to
                               Pickering
                               ,
                               and
                               Servant
                               to
                               the
                               Lord
                               Aston
                               )
                               lately
                               told
                               this
                               Informant
                               that
                               they
                               had
                               taken
                               his
                               Uncle
                               (
                               meaning
                               Pickering
                               )
                               and
                               put
                               him
                               into
                               Newgate
                               ,
                               and
                               thought
                               the
                               King
                               deserved
                               such
                               an
                               execrable
                               death
                               as
                               was
                               intended
                               him
                               ,
                               because
                               of
                               his
                               Whoring
                               and
                               Debauchery
                               .
                            
                             
                               6.
                               
                               That
                               Mr.
                               Evers
                               said
                               Mr.
                               Bennyfield
                               had
                               a
                               packet
                               of
                               Letters
                               delivered
                               to
                               him
                               from
                               the
                               Post-house
                               ,
                               which
                               he
                               feared
                               the
                               Lord
                               Treasurer
                               had
                               notice
                               of
                               ,
                               and
                               therefore
                               he
                               delivered
                               them
                               to
                               the
                               Duke
                               of
                               York
                               ,
                               and
                               the
                               Duke
                               delivered
                               them
                               to
                               the
                               King
                               ,
                               and
                               that
                               the
                               King
                               gave
                               them
                               to
                               the
                               Treasurer
                               ,
                               after
                               he
                               had
                               read
                               them
                               ,
                               but
                               that
                               the
                               King
                               did
                               not
                               believe
                               them
                               ,
                               and
                               therefore
                               it
                               was
                               happy
                               ,
                               or
                               else
                               the
                               Plot
                               had
                               been
                               discovered
                               .
                            
                             
                               7.
                               
                               That
                               he
                               had
                               received
                               many
                               Packets
                               of
                               Letters
                               for
                               Evers
                               ,
                               some
                               of
                               which
                               this
                               Informant
                               broke
                               up
                               ,
                               and
                               found
                               them
                               to
                               be
                               ,
                               and
                               tend
                               to
                               the
                               Establishing
                               of
                               the
                               Romish
                               Religion
                               ,
                               &c.
                               
                            
                             
                               8.
                               
                               That
                               he
                               had
                               received
                               several
                               Sums
                               of
                               mony
                               himself
                               ,
                               and
                               knew
                               of
                               divers
                               others
                               that
                               were
                               imployed
                               to
                               put
                               forth
                               mony
                               ,
                               which
                               was
                               and
                               is
                               for
                               the
                               Jesuits
                               use
                               .
                            
                             
                               
                                 Stephen
                                 Dugdale
                                 .
                              
                            
                             
                               
                                 Taken
                                 upon
                                 Oath
                                 the
                                 
                                 24th
                                 .
                                 day
                                 of
                                 
                                   Dcember
                                   ,
                                   1678.
                                
                                 before
                                 us
                                 .
                              
                               
                                 
                                   Tho.
                                   Lane
                                   ,
                                   J.
                                   Vernon
                                   .
                                
                              
                            
                          
                        
                      
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               find
               by
               this
               here
               ,
               that
               presently
               after
               one
               Howard
               Almoner
               to
               the
               Queen
               went
               over
               ,
               
                 George
                 Hobson
              
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               told
               Dugdale
               there
               was
               a
               Design
               to
               Reform
               the
               Government
               ,
               &c.
               
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               I
               may
               ask
               him
               ,
               how
               long
               after
               he
               went
               over
               ,
               this
               Discourse
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               say
               I
               knew
               
                 George
                 Hobson
              
               before
               he
               came
               to
               be
               a
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               which
               was
               in
               the
               year
               (
               78.
               )
               but
               that
               this
               was
               only
               a
               Discourse
               to
               me
               ,
               that
               the
               Plot
               had
               been
               so
               long
               carrying
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               upon
               his
               Oath
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ,
               he
               told
               him
               so
               .
               Now
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ;
               years
               before
               that
               ,
               when
               the
               Proclamation
               came
               out
               to
               Banish
               the
               Queens
               Servants
               for
               being
               Papists
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               I
               heard
               it
               there
               ,
               I
               never
               knew
               
                 George
                 Hobson
              
               before
               he
               came
               to
               be
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               but
               I
               did
               not
               tell
               it
               as
               a
               Discourse
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               or
               that
               it
               was
               more
               than
               what
               I
               had
               from
               him
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               such
               a
               Design
               so
               long
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ,
               in
               his
               Oath
               ,
               which
               was
               I
               think
               in
               the
               year
               (
               72.
               )
               or
               (
               73.
               )
               or
               rather
               in
               the
               year
               (
               75.
               )
               about
               the
               end
               of
               the
               year
               (
               74.
               )
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               and
               he
               says
               presently
               ,
               three
               years
               after
               ;
               is
               that
               presently
               ?
               E'n
               now
               the
               end
               of
               August
               was
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               and
               how
               long
               that
               was
               we
               can't
               tell
               ,
               and
               now
               three
               years
               is
               presently
               after
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               telling
               of
               anothers
               Discourse
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               must
               observe
               that
               Dugdale
               says
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               hear
               it
               from
               Hobson
               after
               he
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Service
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               he
               says
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               impossible
               ,
               for
               he
               did
               not
               say
               it
               till
               three
               years
               after
               ,
               and
               so
               there
               is
               no
               truth
               in
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               it
               was
               that
               Hobson
               told
               me
               that
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               Howard
               went
               over
               ,
               there
               was
               such
               a
               Design
               carrying
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               distinguish
               not
               ,
               and
               therefore
               don't
               comprehend
               .
               'T
               is
               one
               thing
               if
               Dugdale
               had
               said
               ,
               that
               presently
               after
               there
               was
               such
               a
               Design
               ,
               Hobson
               told
               him
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               you
               ,
               it
               is
               said
               ,
               That
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ,
               Hobson
               told
               him
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               But
               it
               is
               not
               that
               presently
               after
               he
               heard
               the
               Discourse
               ,
               but
               
                 George
                 Hobson
              
               told
               him
               ,
               that
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ,
               there
               was
               such
               a
               Design
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               said
               he
               was
               told
               presently
               after
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Information
             was
             read
             again
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               when
               Howard
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               but
               by
               report
               I
               heard
               when
               he
               went
               :
               But
               I
               do
               not
               make
               that
               part
               of
               my
               Oath
               ,
               for
               I
               cannot
               absolutely
               remember
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord.
               High.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               must
               not
               make
               a
               Strain
               to
               to
               make
               a
               mistake
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Gods
               Life
               ,
               is
               three
               years
               a
               Strain
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugd.
               
            
             
               I
               never
               did
               mean
               so
               ,
               nor
               never
               did
               intend
               so
               ,
               for
               I
               never
               knew
               him
               till
               he
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ,
               but
               he
               told
               me
               then
               this
               Discourse
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               this
               is
               only
               a
               Question
               of
               Grammar
               ,
               how
               it
               can
               be
               construed
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               beg
               your
               pardon
               :
               't
               is
               to
               my
               little
               Reason
               a
               Question
               of
               Sense
               ,
               and
               it
               is
               plain
               to
               me
               it
               can
               have
               no
               other
               sense
               ,
               but
               I
               submit
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               whether
               this
               be
               not
               the
               true
               Construction
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Go
               on
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               with
               your
               Evidence
               ,
               notice
               will
               be
               taken
               of
               your
               Objection
               :
               you
               shall
               see
               what
               they
               say
               to
               it
               ,
               if
               they
               do
               not
               give
               it
               an
               Answer
               ,
               it
               will
               have
               its
               weight
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               will
               give
               that
               an
               Answer
               in
               due
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               next
               he
               says
               ,
               I
               talked
               with
               him
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               ,
               where
               he
               met
               with
               me
               at
               Tixal
               at
               the
               Gate
               .
               And
               I
               said
               ,
               it
               was
               sad
               we
               could
               not
               say
               our
               Prayers
               ,
               but
               in
               private
               .
               Truely
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               say
               this
               to
               him
               ;
               but
               if
               I
               did
               say
               it
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               it
               ,
               or
               that
               ever
               I
               thought
               so
               much
               ;
               for
               I
               was
               so
               much
               of
               a
               contrary
               Opinion
               ,
               that
               I
               thought
               those
               of
               that
               Religion
               said
               their
               Prayers
               too
               openly
               ,
               and
               have
               chid
               them
               for
               it
               .
               And
               why
               should
               I
               speak
               it
               to
               him
               whom
               I
               did
               not
               know
               what
               Religion
               or
               what
               Profession
               he
               might
               be
               of
               ?
               And
               presently
               after
               I
               spoke
               of
               these
               things
               ,
               he
               says
               ,
               he
               went
               to
               know
               what
               the
               Design
               was
               ,
               and
               then
               Mr.
               Evers
               told
               him
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               yet
               yesterday
               he
               said
               he
               knew
               it
               sixteen
               years
               ago
               .
               How
               can
               all
               this
               be
               true
               ?
               And
               besides
               ,
               it
               seems
               I
               could
               have
               no
               great
               power
               with
               him
               to
               persuade
               him
               ,
               for
               it
               seems
               he
               mistrusted
               my
               ability
               to
               pay
               ,
               and
               he
               had
               reason
               ,
               for
               I
               should
               hardly
               have
               parted
               with
               500
               l.
               in
               the
               Condition
               I
               was
               then
               in
               to
               any
               one
               ,
               but
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               now
               .
               There
               is
               a
               third
               Witness
               ,
               one
               Turbervill
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               a
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               Turbervill
               ,
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               what
               time
               he
               came
               to
               serve
               my
               Lady
               Molineaux
               ,
               (
               for
               it
               is
               in
               the
               beginning
               of
               the
               Information
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               that
               he
               came
               in
               the
               year
               73.
               )
               and
               how
               long
               he
               staid
               with
               her
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               please
               ,
               there
               was
               an
               offer
               made
               to
               you
               ,
               that
               those
               Affidavits
               should
               be
               produced
               if
               you
               desired
               to
               see
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               think
               I
               shall
               have
               no
               occasion
               as
               yet
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               I
               may
               by
               and
               by
               :
               But
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               this
               Question
               first
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               say
               he
               came
               in
               the
               year
               (
               73.
               )
               into
               my
               Lady
               
                 Mary
                 Molineaux
              
               her
               Service
               ,
               and
               staid
               with
               her
               about
               three
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               swear
               in
               the
               year
               (
               73.
               (
               he
               came
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               so
               in
               his
               Narrative
               in
               Print
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               own
               that
               Narrative
               in
               Print
               for
               true
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               No
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               can
               you
               challenge
               him
               then
               with
               a
               Narrative
               he
               does
               not
               own
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               what
               can
               a
               man
               do
               if
               he
               must
               not
               go
               according
               to
               what
               is
               Printed
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               There
               is
               a
               mistake
               in
               the
               Printing
               of
               it
               ,
               there
               is
               a
               mistake
               of
               (
               73.
               )
               for
               (
               72.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               now
               desire
               that
               Affidavit
               may
               be
               produced
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Pray
               let
               him
               have
               the
               benefit
               that
               was
               offered
               him
               of
               the
               Affidavit
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Besides
               ,
               I
               declared
               I
               could
               not
               be
               positive
               to
               a
               year
               ,
               I
               own
               any
               thing
               else
               in
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               I
               shall
               have
               fellows
               that
               will
               not
               swear
               to
               Months
               nor
               to
               years
               ,
               I
               beg
               of
               your
               Lordships
               to
               know
               whether
               these
               be
               legal
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               The
               Affidavit
               is
               in
               the
               Custody
               of
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Poulteney
              
               a
               Member
               of
               our
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Poulteney
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               the
               Affidavit
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               I
               shall
               give
               you
               an
               account
               what
               I
               did
               upon
               it
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 Thomas
                 Stringer
              
               another
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               after
               that
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               had
               given
               his
               Evidence
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               Vivavoce
               ,
               he
               tendred
               to
               them
               this
               Information
               that
               I
               have
               in
               my
               hand
               ,
               The
               House
               of
               Commons
               after
               it
               had
               been
               read
               thought
               it
               might
               be
               convenient
               to
               have
               it
               sworn
               to
               before
               two
               Justices
               of
               Peace
               .
               Whereupon
               Sir
               
                 Thomas
                 Stringer
              
               and
               my self
               withdrew
               into
               the
               Speakers
               Chamber
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               came
               to
               us
               ,
               we
               read
               over
               the
               Information
               to
               him
               again
               ,
               and
               after
               we
               had
               read
               it
               over
               it
               was
               signed
               and
               he
               swore
               it
               .
               In
               this
               Information
               when
               we
               then
               took
               it
               he
               declared
               there
               ,
               that
               he
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               in
               the
               year
               1673
               ,
               and
               came
               into
               England
               1676.
               
               After
               we
               had
               sworn
               him
               ,
               we
               carried
               this
               Information
               into
               the
               House
               again
               .
               The
               next
               morning
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               came
               to
               me
               ,
               (
               I
               being
               one
               of
               the
               Justices
               that
               had
               sworn
               him
               )
               and
               told
               me
               that
               searching
               among
               his
               Papers
               the
               last
               night
               for
               a
               Letter
               ,
               which
               he
               had
               said
               he
               had
               received
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               sent
               to
               Diep
               ,
               though
               he
               could
               not
               find
               the
               Letter
               he
               looked
               for
               ,
               yet
               he
               found
               that
               the
               precise
               time
               that
               he
               went
               to
               live
               with
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               was
               1672
               ,
               and
               the
               precise
               time
               of
               his
               coming
               into
               England
               was
               1675.
               
               And
               he
               desired
               me
               to
               acquaint
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               with
               it
               ,
               that
               this
               Circumstance
               of
               time
               might
               be
               altered
               .
               Whereupon
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               acquaint
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               with
               it
               ,
               how
               he
               was
               mistaken
               in
               that
               point
               of
               a
               Circumstance
               of
               time
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               came
               of
               his
               own
               accord
               and
               desired
               me
               to
               move
               the
               House
               in
               it
               ;
               I
               moved
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               they
               did
               direct
               we
               should
               withdraw
               again
               ,
               and
               take
               his
               Information
               again
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               
               should
               amend
               it
               ,
               he
               amended
               it
               ,
               and
               made
               the
               (
               73
               )
               (
               72
               )
               and
               the
               (
               76
               )
               (
               75
               )
               and
               then
               afterwards
               we
               swore
               him
               to
               it
               again
               
                 de
                 novo
              
               ,
               and
               this
               is
               the
               matter
               of
               Fact
               concerning
               the
               Affidavit
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Poultney
              
               ,
               Did
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               correct
               the
               mistake
               himself
               first
               ,
               or
               was
               it
               found
               and
               altered
               by
               others
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Poultney
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               came
               to
               me
               ,
               for
               I
               did
               not
               know
               any
               thing
               of
               it
               that
               he
               was
               mistaken
               ,
               but
               he
               came
               to
               me
               the
               next
               morning
               assoon
               as
               ever
               I
               came
               to
               the
               House
               ,
               before
               indeed
               I
               entred
               into
               the
               House
               and
               told
               me
               of
               the
               mistake
               and
               told
               me
               the
               reasons
               how
               he
               came
               to
               recollect
               himself
               ,
               and
               find
               out
               the
               mistake
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               I
               would
               ask
               you
               the
               Question
               ,
               how
               came
               you
               to
               be
               informed
               that
               you
               had
               mistaken
               your self
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               'll
               tell
               you
               ,
               I
               was
               searching
               for
               a
               Letter
               which
               I
               received
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               missing
               that
               ,
               I
               found
               my
               Discharge
               I
               had
               from
               the
               French
               Army
               ,
               wherein
               I
               saw
               my
               mistake
               as
               to
               the
               time
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               have
               to
               produce
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               ask
               you
               again
               ,
               by
               the
               Oath
               you
               have
               taken
               ,
               did
               you
               correct
               it
               of
               your self
               ,
               or
               by
               information
               from
               any
               other
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               By
               the
               Oath
               I
               have
               taken
               I
               did
               correct
               it
               of
               my self
               ,
               and
               no
               body
               moved
               it
               to
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Mayn
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               but
               a
               Circumstance
               of
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               And
               corrected
               by
               himself
               the
               very
               next
               morning
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               does
               acknowledge
               he
               did
               forswear
               himself
               once
               ,
               and
               did
               make
               himself
               an
               honest
               man
               the
               next
               day
               ,
               when
               he
               was
               a
               perjured
               Villain
               the
               day
               before
               .
               And
               now
               he
               tells
               your
               Lordships
               that
               he
               was
               searching
               for
               a
               Letter
               that
               I
               sent
               to
               him
               ,
               but
               he
               cannot
               find
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               thought
               I
               had
               it
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               find
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               
               I
               'le
               swear
               thou
               canst
               not
               .
               But
               then
               he
               does
               say
               that
               he
               had
               a
               Discharge
               from
               the
               French
               Army
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Yes
               't
               is
               here
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               that
               the
               Paper
               of
               your
               Discharge
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               it
               is
               .
               'T
               is
               worn
               out
               a
               little
               and
               torn
               ,
               but
               the
               Seal
               is
               preserved
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               know
               that
               ever
               I
               should
               have
               occasion
               to
               make
               use
               of
               it
               ,
               but
               my
               Lord
               Challenging
               me
               for
               a
               Coward
               ,
               and
               a
               Deserter
               of
               my
               Colours
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               so
               still
               ,
               for
               I
               have
               heard
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Honour
               is
               not
               in
               question
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               The
               Title
               is
               a
               little
               torn
               ,
               and
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               I
               will
               read
               it
               (
               which
               he
               did
               being
               in
               French
               ,
               and
               is
               rendred
               in
               English
               in
               these
               words
               .
               )
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         THis
                         certifieth
                         to
                         all
                         to
                         whom
                         it
                         shall
                         appertain
                         ,
                         that
                         I
                         have
                         given
                         an
                         absolute
                         Discharge
                         to
                         the
                         
                           Sieur
                           Turbervill
                        
                         a
                         Cavalier
                         of
                         my
                         Company
                         ,
                         after
                         having
                         served
                         the
                         space
                         of
                         six
                         months
                         with
                         all
                         Honour
                         and
                         Fidelity
                         .
                         Therefore
                         I
                         desire
                         
                         those
                         that
                         are
                         to
                         be
                         desired
                         ,
                         to
                         treat
                         him
                         Civilly
                         ,
                         and
                         let
                         him
                         pass
                         and
                         re-pass
                         without
                         doing
                         him
                         any
                         Injury
                         or
                         giving
                         him
                         any
                         hindrance
                         ;
                         But
                         on
                         the
                         contrary
                         to
                         afford
                         him
                         all
                         Aid
                         and
                         Assistance
                         where
                         it
                         shall
                         be
                         necessary
                         ,
                         promising
                         the
                         like
                         upon
                         all
                         occasions
                         that
                         shall
                         require
                         it
                         .
                         In
                         Confirmation
                         of
                         which
                         I
                         have
                         for
                         him
                         signed
                         this
                         present
                         Discharge
                         ,
                         and
                         thereto
                         put
                         the
                         Seal
                         of
                         my
                         Arms
                         to
                         serve
                         him
                         in
                         case
                         he
                         shall
                         need
                         it
                         .
                         Made
                         at
                         the
                         Camp
                         before
                         Air
                         this
                         4.
                         of
                         August
                         ,
                         1676.
                         
                      
                       
                         
                           Sheldon
                           .
                        
                      
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               the
               date
               of
               that
               Discharge
               Turbervill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               in
               August
               (
               76.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               May
               I
               see
               it
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               deliver
               it
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 ,
                 and
                 he
                 looked
                 upon
                 it
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               The
               thing
               looks
               like
               truth
               ,
               but
               there
               is
               no
               proof
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               The
               Seal
               is
               a
               little
               broke
               ,
               but
               the
               Name
               remains
               perfect
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               here
               is
               a
               dismission
               from
               the
               Army
               in
               (
               76.
               )
               how
               will
               that
               rectifie
               this
               mistake
               about
               (
               73.
               )
               I
               understand
               not
               that
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Court
             called
             for
             the
             Paper
             ,
             and
             it
             was
             looked
             upon
             by
             the
             Duke
             of
             Monmouth
             and
             some
             other
             Lords
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               this
               Paper
               hath
               been
               looked
               upon
               ,
               the
               Hand
               is
               well
               known
               by
               those
               that
               should
               know
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               say
               the
               contrary
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Whereabouts
               are
               you
               now
               my
               Lord
               then
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               extreamly
               faint
               and
               weary
               ,
               that
               I
               am
               sure
               of
               .
               This
               Gentleman
               told
               you
               yesterday
               ,
               that
               he
               spoke
               with
               me
               several
               times
               in
               France
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               was
               conversant
               with
               me
               for
               a
               fortnight
               together
               ,
               that
               he
               visited
               me
               ,
               and
               I
               proposed
               the
               Killing
               of
               the
               King
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               refused
               to
               give
               me
               an
               Answer
               then
               ,
               but
               told
               me
               he
               would
               give
               it
               me
               at
               Diep
               ;
               This
               he
               said
               yesterday
               ,
               as
               I
               remember
               :
               And
               afterwards
               when
               he
               was
               gone
               down
               ,
               he
               came
               up
               again
               ,
               and
               desired
               to
               put
               your
               Lordships
               in
               mind
               of
               a
               particular
               Circumstance
               which
               he
               said
               he
               did
               remember
               ,
               That
               when
               he
               came
               to
               me
               I
               had
               the
               Gout
               ,
               and
               was
               in
               a
               lower
               Room
               of
               the
               House
               ,
               in
               such
               a
               Street
               which
               faced
               Luxenburgh
               House
               ,
               all
               which
               I
               stand
               not
               upon
               :
               and
               that
               the
               Prince
               of
               Conde
               lived
               in
               the
               same
               Street
               ▪
               on
               the
               left
               hand
               he
               said
               first
               ,
               and
               after
               on
               the
               right
               hand
               ,
               and
               after
               he
               knew
               not
               where
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               did
               lodge
               in
               the
               same
               Street
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               say
               I
               believed
               the
               Prince
               of
               Conde
               lived
               there
               ,
               but
               was
               not
               positive
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               but
               first
               he
               swears
               a
               thing
               ,
               and
               then
               only
               believes
               it
               .
               Be
               pleased
               to
               call
               my
               Servants
               ,
               to
               know
               if
               ever
               I
               had
               my
               Foot
               ill
               of
               the
               Gout
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               told
               me
               it
               was
               the
               Gout
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               ever
               I
               put
               my
               Foot
               on
               a
               Stool
               ,
               or
               was
               lame
               there
               ,
               I
               will
               own
               all
               that
               he
               says
               .
               But
               when
               a
               man
               swears
               his
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               goes
               down
               from
               the
               place
               ,
               and
               then
               invents
               and
               comes
               up
               again
               to
               tell
               new
               stories
               ,
               who
               shall
               believe
               such
               a
               man
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               went
               from
               the
               Bar.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               say
               ,
               y●●
               went
               down
               and
               had
               given
               all
               your
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               came
               up
               again
               and
               told
               this
               Circumstance
               :
               I
               have
               not
               been
               lame
               not
               one
               moment
               these
               forty
               years
               ,
               and
               yet
               this
               Fellow
               ,
               this
               impudent
               Fellow
               ,
               to
               say
               ,
               that
               I
               was
               lame
               and
               put
               my
               Foot
               on
               a
               Stool
               .
               He
               does
               not
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               swear
               positively
               in
               any
               thing
               but
               this
               ,
               and
               this
               I
               can
               easily
               disprove
               in
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               this
               particular
               ,
               Turbervill
               ?
               Had
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               never
               the
               Gout
               while
               he
               was
               in
               France
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               He
               told
               me
               it
               was
               the
               Gout
               ,
               my
               Lords
               :
               He
               had
               a
               great
               lameness
               ,
               he
               could
               not
               go
               from
               one
               place
               to
               another
               :
               Here
               are
               several
               people
               to
               give
               Testimony
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               was
               lame
               within
               less
               time
               than
               he
               says
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Hold
               ,
               hold
               Turbervill
               ,
               you
               must
               not
               give
               that
               Evidence
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Call
               
                 Nicholas
                 Furnese
              
               again
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               call
               him
               for
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ask
               whether
               ever
               he
               saw
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               with
               me
               in
               France
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               with
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               all
               the
               while
               he
               was
               in
               France
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               never
               see
               Turbervill
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               did
               you
               never
               see
               Father
               
                 Anthony
                 Turbervill
              
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               his
               Name
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Was
               I
               ever
               one
               moment
               lame
               while
               I
               was
               in
               France
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               Not
               ,
               that
               I
               remember
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               was
               my
               Lord
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               About
               three
               Months
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               time
               of
               the
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               At
               Paris
               in
               October
               and
               November
               ,
               in
               December
               at
               Rohan
               ,
               in
               January
               we
               came
               over
               into
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ask
               him
               if
               ever
               I
               put
               my
               Foot
               upon
               a
               Cushion
               ,
               or
               upon
               a
               Stool
               for
               lameness
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord.
               High.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               did
               you
               ever
               see
               Furnese
               when
               you
               were
               in
               France
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               This
               Man
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 L
                 ▪
              
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               not
               that
               I
               remember
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               In
               what
               quality
               did
               you
               serve
               my
               Lord
               in
               
                 France
                 ,
                 Furnese
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               waited
               on
               him
               in
               his
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               any
               other
               Servant
               of
               my
               Lords
               ,
               that
               you
               did
               see
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               don't
               remember
               ,
               I
               might
               forget
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               So
               I
               believe
               thou
               dost
               me
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               ,
               that
               could
               call
               me
               Coward
               may
               say
               any
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               You
               shall
               be
               as
               valiant
               as
               Hector
               ,
               if
               you
               will.
               Pray
               call
               my
               other
               Boy
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               little
               Boy
               ,
               were
               you
               all
               the
               while
               with
               my
               Lord
               that
               he
               was
               in
               France
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               see
               Turbervill
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               not
               that
               I
               know
               of
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 L
                 ▪
              
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Had
               my
               Lord
               the
               Gout
               in
               France
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               No
               nor
               never
               had
               since
               I
               have
               been
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               is
               six
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               Seven
               years
               almost
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               you
               sure
               of
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               sure
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Now
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               says
               I
               writ
               him
               a
               Letter
               to
               Diep
               ,
               which
               Letter
               he
               can't
               find
               .
               I
               beseech
               you
               what
               were
               the
               Contents
               of
               the
               Letter
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               were
               the
               Contents
               of
               the
               Letter
               my
               Lord
               sent
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turberv
               .
            
             
               The
               Contents
               of
               the
               Letter
               were
               that
               I
               should
               not
               stay
               at
               Diep
               in
               expectation
               of
               him
               ;
               for
               he
               had
               appointed
               a
               Yatcht
               to
               come
               to
               Calice
               ,
               but
               I
               should
               make
               what
               haste
               I
               could
               to
               
                 London
                 ▪
              
               and
               there
               I
               should
               meet
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               whether
               I
               sent
               him
               word
               that
               Count
               Gramont
               came
               over
               with
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               shall
               now
               bring
               Witnesses
               that
               I
               did
               not
               come
               by
               Calice
               ,
               but
               by
               Diep
               ,
               and
               Count
               Gramont
               came
               not
               with
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               which
               way
               came
               you
               ,
               from
               Diep
               ,
               or
               from
               Calice
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               From
               Diep
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               And
               I
               came
               from
               Diep
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               came
               that
               way
               too
               ,
               he
               says
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               know
               not
               of
               it
               ,
               he
               sent
               me
               word
               otherwise
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               shall
               now
               prove
               what
               I
               say
               ,
               pray
               call
               Mr.
               Wyborne
               .
            
          
           
             (
             VVho
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               ask
               him
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whether
               he
               did
               not
               see
               me
               at
               Diep
               ,
               and
               embark
               from
               thence
               for
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVyborne
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               ▪
               will
               give
               you
               an
               Account
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               .
               In
               the
               year
               (
               75.
               )
               in
               December
               I
               had
               occasion
               to
               go
               over
               into
               France
               upon
               my
               own
               Concerns
               ;
               
               and
               enquiring
               where
               there
               was
               a
               conveniency
               to
               go
               over
               ,
               I
               heard
               that
               a
               Yatcht
               was
               sending
               to
               Diep
               for
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               
                 Henry
                 Sidney
              
               His
               Majesties
               Envoy
               Extraordinary
               now
               in
               Holland
               ,
               I
               took
               that
               occasion
               ,
               and
               we
               weighed
               Anchor
               on
               Friday
               the
               24.
               of
               December
               ;
               and
               it
               being
               foul
               weather
               ,
               and
               we
               being
               tossed
               long
               upon
               the
               Sea
               ,
               we
               did
               not
               come
               to
               an
               Anchor
               before
               Diep
               till
               Sunday
               was
               sevennight
               ,
               at
               Two
               a
               Clock
               in
               the
               Afternoon
               ,
               which
               was
               January
               2.
               
               Then
               I
               came
               with
               the
               Captain
               immediately
               ashoar
               ,
               to
               enquire
               for
               my
               Lord
               and
               Mr.
               Sidney
               ,
               I
               enquired
               for
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               they
               told
               me
               ,
               he
               was
               at
               Rohan
               ,
               expecting
               to
               hear
               of
               the
               arrival
               of
               the
               Yatcht
               ;
               upon
               which
               the
               Captain
               desired
               me
               to
               write
               a
               Letter
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               so
               ;
               upon
               sight
               of
               which
               Letter
               he
               came
               to
               Diep
               on
               Tuesday
               in
               the
               Afternoon
               ,
               which
               was
               as
               I
               take
               it
               ,
               the
               4.
               of
               January
               ,
               and
               we
               were
               at
               the
               Bastile
               there
               then
               together
               ,
               when
               he
               came
               that
               evening
               ;
               and
               the
               next
               day
               I
               went
               on
               my
               own
               occasions
               to
               Paris
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               and
               Mr.
               Sidney
               did
               come
               over
               together
               in
               the
               Yatcht
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               please
               I
               will
               call
               my
               two
               Servants
               again
               to
               this
               matter
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord.
               High.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Call
               them
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             Then
             Furnese
             and
             Leigh
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Which
               way
               came
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               out
               of
               France
               into
               England
               ,
               by
               Diep
               or
               by
               Calice
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Furnese
               .
            
             
               By
               Diep
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               Boy
               ,
               which
               way
               came
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               By
               Diep
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               came
               with
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               we
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               The
               Question
               is
               not
               whether
               you
               came
               by
               Calice
               or
               no
               ,
               but
               whether
               you
               writ
               a
               Letter
               to
               him
               to
               Diep
               that
               you
               would
               go
               by
               Calice
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               swore
               yesterday
               that
               I
               did
               come
               by
               Calice
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               say
               my
               Lord
               came
               by
               Calice
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               had
               a
               Letter
               from
               his
               Lordship
               ,
               which
               he
               wrote
               to
               me
               ,
               that
               he
               would
               come
               by
               Calice
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               did
               not
               name
               the
               Letter
               yesterday
               ,
               nor
               is
               't
               in
               the
               Information
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Read
               the
               Affidavit
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               
                 
                   
                     The
                     Information
                     of
                     
                       Edward
                       Turbervill
                    
                     of
                     Skerr
                     ,
                     in
                     the
                     
                       County
                       of
                    
                     Glamorgan
                     ,
                     Gent.
                     
                  
                   
                     WHo
                     saith
                     ,
                     That
                     being
                     a
                     younger
                     Brother
                     about
                     the
                     Year
                     1672
                     ,
                     he
                     became
                     Gentleman
                     Usher
                     to
                     the
                     Lady
                     
                       Mary
                       Molineaux
                    
                     ,
                     Daughter
                     to
                     the
                     Earl
                     of
                     Powis
                     ,
                     and
                     by
                     that
                     means
                     lived
                     in
                     the
                     House
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Earl
                     about
                     three
                     Years
                     ,
                     and
                     by
                     serving
                     and
                     assisting
                     at
                     Mass
                     there
                     ,
                     grew
                     intimate
                     with
                     
                       William
                       Morgan
                    
                     ,
                     Confessor
                     to
                     the
                     said
                     Earl
                     and
                     his
                     Family
                     ,
                     who
                     was
                     a
                     Jesuit
                     ,
                     and
                     Rector
                     over
                     all
                     the
                     Jesuits
                     in
                     
                       North-Wales
                       ,
                       Shropshire
                    
                     ,
                     and
                     Staffordshire
                     :
                     And
                     he
                     ,
                     during
                     the
                     three
                     years
                     time
                     ,
                     often
                     heard
                     the
                     said
                     Morgan
                     tell
                     the
                     said
                     Earl
                     and
                     his
                     Lady
                     ,
                     that
                     the
                     Kingdom
                     was
                     in
                     a
                     high
                     Fever
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     nothing
                     but
                     Blood-letting
                     could
                     restore
                     it
                     to
                     Health
                     ▪
                     and
                     then
                     the
                     
                       Catholick
                       Religion
                    
                     would
                     flourish
                     .
                     Whereunto
                     the
                     said
                     Earl
                     many
                     times
                     replied
                     ,
                     It
                     was
                     not
                     yet
                     time
                     ,
                     but
                     he
                     do●●ted
                     not
                     but
                     such
                     means
                     should
                     be
                     used
                     in
                     due
                     time
                     ,
                     or
                     words
                     to
                     that
                     effect
                     .
                     And
                     he
                     heard
                     the
                     Lady
                     Powis
                     tell
                     the
                     said
                     Morgan
                     ,
                     and
                     others
                     publickly
                     and
                     privately
                     ,
                     That
                     when
                     Religion
                     should
                     be
                     restored
                     in
                     England
                     ,
                     which
                     she
                     doubted
                     not
                     but
                     would
                     be
                     in
                     a
                     very
                     short
                     time
                     ,
                     she
                     would
                     persuade
                     her
                     Husband
                     to
                     give
                     
                       300
                       l.
                       per
                       annum
                    
                     ,
                     for
                     a
                     Foundation
                     to
                     maintain
                     a
                     Nunnery
                     ;
                     and
                     this
                     Informant
                     was
                     persuaded
                     by
                     the
                     Lady
                     Powis
                     and
                     the
                     said
                     Morgan
                     to
                     become
                     a
                     Fryar
                     ,
                     the
                     said
                     Lady
                     en●ouraging
                     this
                     Informant
                     thereunto
                     ,
                     by
                     saying
                     ,
                     that
                     if
                     he
                     would
                     follow
                     his
                     Studies
                     ,
                     and
                     make
                     himself
                     capable
                     ,
                     she
                     questioned
                     not
                     but
                     he
                     might
                     shortly
                     be
                     made
                     a
                     Bishop
                     by
                     her
                     Interest
                     in
                     England
                     ,
                     because
                     upon
                     Restauration
                     of
                     the
                     
                       Catholick
                       Religion
                    
                     ,
                     there
                     would
                     want
                     People
                     fit
                     to
                     make
                     Bishops
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     do
                     the
                     Business
                     of
                     the
                     Church
                     ,
                     and
                     thereupon
                     she
                     gave
                     this
                     Informant
                     Ten
                     Pounds
                     to
                     carry
                     him
                     to
                     Doway
                     ,
                     where
                     this
                     Informant
                     entred
                     the
                     Monastery
                     ,
                     and
                     continued
                     about
                     three
                     weeks
                     ;
                     and
                     with
                     much
                     difficulty
                     made
                     his
                     escape
                     thence
                     ,
                     and
                     returned
                     for
                     England
                     ;
                     for
                     which
                     the
                     said
                     Earl
                     and
                     his
                     Lady
                     ,
                     and
                     all
                     the
                     rest
                     that
                     encouraged
                     him
                     to
                     go
                     to
                     the
                     Monastery
                     ,
                     became
                     his
                     utter
                     Enemies
                     ,
                     threatning
                     to
                     take
                     away
                     his
                     Life
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     get
                     his
                     Brother
                     to
                     disinherit
                     him
                     ,
                     which
                     last
                     is
                     compassed
                     against
                     him
                     .
                     And
                     Father
                     Cudworth
                     ,
                     who
                     was
                     than
                     Guardian
                     of
                     the
                     Fryars
                     at
                     Doway
                     ,
                     some
                     days
                     before
                     his
                     escape
                     thence
                     ,
                     told
                     this
                     Informant
                     ,
                     That
                     if
                     he
                     should
                     not
                     persevere
                     with
                     them
                     ,
                     he
                     should
                     lose
                     his
                     life
                     and
                     friends
                     .
                     And
                     further
                     added
                     ,
                     That
                     this
                     King
                     should
                     not
                     last
                     long
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     his
                     Successor
                     should
                     be
                     wholly
                     for
                     their
                     purpose
                     .
                     And
                     Father
                     Cross
                     ,
                     Provincial
                     of
                     the
                     Fryars
                     ,
                     told
                     this
                     Informant
                     ,
                     That
                     had
                     he
                     been
                     at
                     Doway
                     when
                     this
                     Informant
                     made
                     his
                     escape
                     thence
                     ,
                     he
                     should
                     never
                     have
                     come
                     to
                     England
                     :
                     And
                     this
                     Informant
                     finding
                     himself
                     friendless
                     ,
                     and
                     in
                     danger
                     in
                     England
                     ,
                     went
                     to
                     Paris
                     ,
                     where
                     one
                     of
                     his
                     Brothers
                     is
                     a
                     Benedictine
                     Monk
                     ,
                     who
                     persuaded
                     this
                     Informant
                     to
                     return
                     for
                     England
                     ;
                     and
                     in
                     order
                     thereunto
                     ,
                     
                     about
                     the
                     latter
                     end
                     of
                     
                       November
                       1675.
                    
                     he
                     was
                     introduced
                     into
                     the
                     acquaintance
                     of
                     the
                     Lord
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     that
                     he
                     might
                     go
                     for
                     England
                     with
                     his
                     Lordship
                     ,
                     and
                     three
                     weeks
                     he
                     attended
                     his
                     Lordship
                     ,
                     and
                     had
                     great
                     access
                     and
                     freedom
                     with
                     his
                     Lordship
                     ,
                     who
                     gave
                     him
                     great
                     assurances
                     of
                     his
                     Favour
                     and
                     Interest
                     to
                     restore
                     him
                     to
                     his
                     Relations
                     esteem
                     again
                     .
                     And
                     said
                     ,
                     That
                     he
                     had
                     a
                     piece
                     of
                     service
                     to
                     propose
                     to
                     this
                     Informant
                     ,
                     that
                     would
                     not
                     only
                     retrieve
                     his
                     Reputation
                     with
                     his
                     own
                     Relations
                     ,
                     but
                     also
                     oblige
                     both
                     them
                     and
                     their
                     Party
                     to
                     make
                     him
                     happy
                     as
                     long
                     he
                     lived
                     .
                     And
                     this
                     informant
                     being
                     desirous
                     to
                     embrace
                     so
                     happy
                     an
                     Opportunity
                     ,
                     was
                     very
                     inquisitive
                     after
                     the
                     means
                     ,
                     but
                     the
                     said
                     Lord
                     Stafford
                     being
                     somewhat
                     difficult
                     to
                     repose
                     so
                     great
                     a
                     Trust
                     as
                     he
                     was
                     to
                     communicate
                     to
                     him
                     ,
                     exacted
                     all
                     the
                     Obligations
                     and
                     Promises
                     of
                     secresie
                     ,
                     which
                     this
                     Informant
                     gave
                     his
                     Lordship
                     in
                     the
                     most
                     solemn
                     manner
                     he
                     could
                     invent
                     :
                     Then
                     his
                     Lordship
                     laboured
                     to
                     make
                     this
                     Informant
                     sensible
                     of
                     all
                     the
                     advantages
                     that
                     would
                     accrue
                     to
                     this
                     Informant
                     ,
                     and
                     the
                     
                       Catholick
                       Cause
                    
                     ,
                     and
                     then
                     told
                     this
                     Informant
                     in
                     direct
                     terms
                     ,
                     that
                     he
                     might
                     make
                     himself
                     and
                     the
                     Nation
                     happy
                     ,
                     by
                     taking
                     away
                     the
                     Life
                     of
                     the
                     King
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     who
                     was
                     a
                     Heretick
                     ,
                     and
                     consequently
                     a
                     Rebel
                     against
                     God
                     Almighty
                     .
                     Of
                     which
                     this
                     Informant
                     desired
                     his
                     Lordship
                     to
                     give
                     him
                     time
                     to
                     consider
                     ,
                     and
                     told
                     his
                     Lordship
                     that
                     he
                     would
                     give
                     him
                     his
                     Answer
                     at
                     Diep
                     ,
                     where
                     his
                     Lordship
                     intended
                     to
                     ship
                     for
                     England
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     take
                     this
                     Informant
                     with
                     him
                     ;
                     but
                     this
                     Informant
                     going
                     before
                     to
                     Diep
                     ,
                     the
                     Lord
                     Stafford
                     went
                     with
                     Count
                     Gramont
                     by
                     Calice
                     ,
                     and
                     sent
                     this
                     Informant
                     orders
                     to
                     go
                     for
                     England
                     ,
                     and
                     to
                     attend
                     his
                     Lordship
                     at
                     London
                     ,
                     but
                     this
                     Informant
                     did
                     not
                     attend
                     his
                     Lordship
                     at
                     London
                     ,
                     but
                     went
                     into
                     the
                     French
                     service
                     ,
                     and
                     so
                     avoided
                     the
                     Lord
                     
                     Stafford's
                     further
                     importunities
                     in
                     that
                     Affair
                     .
                     And
                     this
                     Informant
                     further
                     saith
                     ,
                     That
                     one
                     Remige
                     a
                     French
                     woman
                     ,
                     and
                     vehement
                     Papist
                     ,
                     who
                     married
                     this
                     Informants
                     Brother
                     ,
                     lived
                     with
                     the
                     Lady
                     Powis
                     all
                     the
                     time
                     this
                     Informant
                     resided
                     there
                     ,
                     and
                     some
                     years
                     since
                     ,
                     and
                     was
                     the
                     great
                     Confident
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Lady
                     ;
                     and
                     the
                     said
                     Remige
                     was
                     for
                     the
                     most
                     part
                     taken
                     with
                     her
                     Ladyship
                     into
                     
                     Morgan's
                     Chamber
                     when
                     the
                     Consults
                     were
                     held
                     there
                     ,
                     where
                     he
                     hath
                     often
                     seen
                     Father
                     Gavan
                     ,
                     Father
                     Towers
                     ,
                     Father
                     Evans
                     ,
                     Father
                     
                       Sylliard
                       ,
                       Roberts
                       ,
                       White
                       ,
                       Owens
                       ,
                       Barry
                       ,
                    
                     and
                     the
                     Earl
                     of
                     Castlemain
                     ,
                     and
                     other
                     Priests
                     and
                     Jesuits
                     ,
                     meet
                     and
                     shut
                     themselves
                     up
                     in
                     the
                     said
                     
                     Morgan's
                     Chamber
                     ,
                     sometimes
                     for
                     an
                     Hour
                     ,
                     sometimes
                     for
                     two
                     Hours
                     ,
                     more
                     or
                     less
                     ;
                     and
                     at
                     the
                     breaking
                     up
                     of
                     the
                     said
                     Consults
                     ,
                     have
                     broke
                     out
                     into
                     an
                     extasie
                     of
                     joy
                     ,
                     saying
                     ,
                     They
                     hoped
                     ere
                     long
                     the
                     
                       Catholick
                       Religion
                    
                     would
                     be
                     established
                     in
                     England
                     ,
                     and
                     that
                     they
                     did
                     not
                     doubt
                     to
                     bring
                     about
                     their
                     Design
                     notwithstanding
                     they
                     had
                     met
                     with
                     one
                     great
                     Disappointment
                     ,
                     which
                     was
                     the
                     Peace
                     struck
                     up
                     with
                     Holland
                     ;
                     saying
                     ,
                     that
                     if
                     the
                     Army
                     at
                     Blackheath
                     had
                     been
                     sent
                     into
                     Holland
                     to
                     assist
                     the
                     French
                     King
                     ,
                     when
                     he
                     was
                     with
                     his
                     Army
                     near
                     
                       Amsterdam
                       ,
                       Holland
                    
                     had
                     certainly
                     been
                     conquered
                     ,
                     and
                     then
                     the
                     French
                     King
                     would
                     have
                     been
                     able
                     to
                     assist
                     us
                     with
                     an
                     Army
                     to
                     establish
                     Religion
                     
                     in
                     England
                     .
                     Which
                     expressions
                     ,
                     with
                     many
                     others
                     ,
                     importing
                     their
                     confidence
                     to
                     set
                     up
                     the
                     
                       Romish
                       Religion
                    
                     ,
                     they
                     frequently
                     communicated
                     to
                     this
                     Informant
                     .
                     And
                     the
                     said
                     Morgan
                     went
                     several
                     times
                     into
                     Ireland
                     ,
                     to
                     London
                     ,
                     and
                     several
                     other
                     parts
                     of
                     England
                     ,
                     as
                     this
                     Informant
                     hath
                     just
                     cause
                     to
                     believe
                     ,
                     to
                     give
                     and
                     take
                     measures
                     for
                     carrying
                     on
                     the
                     Design
                     ,
                     and
                     the
                     said
                     Remige
                     and
                     her
                     Husband
                     having
                     first
                     clandestinely
                     sold
                     their
                     Estate
                     ,
                     and
                     fled
                     into
                     France
                     about
                     May
                     or
                     June
                     last
                     ,
                     for
                     fear
                     of
                     discovery
                     .
                     This
                     Informant
                     by
                     many
                     Circumstances
                     ,
                     being
                     assured
                     that
                     the
                     said
                     Mrs.
                     Remige
                     was
                     privy
                     to
                     all
                     or
                     most
                     of
                     the
                     Transactions
                     of
                     the
                     Plot.
                     And
                     he
                     saith
                     ,
                     that
                     about
                     May
                     last
                     was
                     two
                     Years
                     ,
                     he
                     was
                     present
                     at
                     Mass
                     with
                     the
                     Lord
                     Powis
                     in
                     Verestreet
                     ,
                     when
                     the
                     Earl
                     of
                     Castlemain
                     did
                     say
                     Mass
                     in
                     his
                     Priestly
                     Habit
                     ,
                     after
                     the
                     Rites
                     and
                     Ceremonies
                     of
                     the
                     Church
                     of
                     Rome
                     .
                  
                   
                     
                       EDWARD
                       TVRBERVILL
                       .
                    
                  
                   
                     
                       Sworn
                       the
                       9th
                       .
                       day
                       of
                       November
                       1680.
                       before
                    
                     
                       
                         
                           
                             Thomas
                             Stringer
                             .
                          
                           
                             William
                             Poulteny
                             .
                          
                           
                             Edmund
                             Warcupp
                             .
                          
                        
                      
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               this
               Affidavit
               is
               to
               the
               purpose
               to
               which
               you
               call
               for
               it
               ;
               this
               does
               say
               that
               your
               Lordship
               did
               go
               by
               the
               way
               of
               Calice
               ,
               it
               does
               absolutely
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Now
               whether
               he
               be
               forsworn
               or
               no
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               may
               judge
               by
               these
               three
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               that
               which
               I
               grounded
               my
               belief
               of
               his
               going
               to
               Calice
               upon
               ,
               and
               so
               consequently
               that
               Affidavit
               ,
               was
               the
               Letter
               which
               I
               received
               from
               my
               Lord
               ,
               which
               I
               have
               looked
               for
               ,
               but
               cannot
               find
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               This
               Affidavit
               does
               not
               say
               you
               went
               from
               Calice
               to
               England
               ,
               but
               you
               went
               with
               Count
               Gramont
               to
               Calice
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               conceive
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               Affidavit
               ,
               and
               his
               Narrative
               are
               word
               for
               word
               the
               same
               ,
               only
               that
               Amendment
               of
               (
               72
               )
               for
               (
               73
               )
               upon
               which
               I
               observed
               before
               ,
               he
               was
               forsworn
               once
               .
               I
               cannot
               tell
               what
               to
               say
               if
               this
               man
               can
               be
               believed
               .
               And
               Count
               Gramont
               came
               by
               Diep
               too
               ;
               but
               besides
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               in
               this
               Affidavit
               he
               does
               not
               say
               he
               believed
               so
               ,
               by
               the
               Letter
               ,
               tho'
               now
               he
               speaks
               of
               one
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               was
               Count
               Gramont
               in
               your
               Lordships
               company
               when
               you
               came
               to
               Diep
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               was
               in
               England
               before
               me
               a
               month
               ;
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               cannot
               deny
               ,
               but
               I
               had
               one
               recommended
               to
               come
               over
               with
               me
               ,
               that
               
               pretended
               himself
               to
               be
               a
               French
               Count
               ,
               but
               the
               man
               was
               as
               errant
               a
               Rascal
               as
               this
               that
               swears
               against
               me
               ,
               and
               that
               was
               one
               that
               called
               himself
               Count
               
                 de
                 Brienne
              
               ,
               whom
               all
               the
               world
               knows
               to
               be
               a
               Cheat.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               your
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Where
               is
               
                 John
                 Minhead
              
               ?
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               do
               you
               belong
               to
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Powis
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               he
               says
               ,
               by
               the
               persuasion
               of
               my
               Lady
               Powis
               ,
               went
               to
               Doway
               ,
               and
               he
               staid
               in
               the
               Monastery
               three
               weeks
               ,
               and
               not
               liking
               that
               life
               ,
               he
               came
               away
               (
               this
               may
               be
               true
               ,
               I
               say
               nothing
               to
               it
               :
               )
               But
               that
               which
               I
               take
               Exception
               at
               ,
               is
               this
               ,
               He
               says
               ,
               for
               this
               the
               Earl
               of
               Powis
               and
               his
               Lady
               ,
               when
               he
               came
               back
               from
               Doway
               ,
               were
               very
               angry
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               so
               were
               all
               his
               Relations
               ,
               and
               he
               stood
               in
               fear
               of
               his
               life
               from
               them
               .
               Surely
               when
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               knew
               he
               was
               in
               such
               danger
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               have
               come
               near
               them
               .
               Pray
               ask
               this
               Gentleman
               whether
               he
               was
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               ,
               and
               how
               he
               was
               entertained
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Turbervill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               seen
               him
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew
               ▪
               
            
             
               How
               was
               he
               received
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               Very
               well
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew
               ,
            
             
               When
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               year
               (
               75.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               that
               before
               or
               after
               he
               came
               back
               to
               England
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               after
               he
               came
               from
               Doway
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Country
               man
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               A
               French
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               A
               Roman
               Catholick
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ask
               him
               whether
               he
               lay
               in
               my
               Lords
               house
               .
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               lay
               with
               me
               in
               my
               lodgings
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               And
               yet
               he
               says
               he
               was
               afraid
               of
               his
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               my
               Lord
               know
               he
               lay
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Minhead
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               must
               needs
               ,
               because
               he
               came
               through
               the
               Room
               to
               go
               to
               Bed.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               May
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               he
               says
               he
               was
               threatned
               that
               he
               should
               have
               his
               Brother
               disinherit
               him
               ,
               and
               which
               afterwards
               was
               compassed
               .
               Now
               I
               shall
               shew
               that
               this
               is
               impossible
               ,
               for
               he
               had
               no
               Inheritance
               to
               lose
               ,
               nor
               was
               to
               have
               none
               ;
               for
               his
               Brother
               ,
               who
               is
               elder
               than
               he
               ,
               this
               man
               
               being
               by
               a
               second
               Venter
               ,
               hath
               Children
               ,
               as
               I
               shall
               make
               appear
               by
               another
               of
               his
               Brothers
               ,
               who
               is
               here
               .
               And
               this
               not
               being
               settled
               upon
               him
               who
               was
               by
               the
               second
               Venter
               ,
               could
               not
               come
               to
               him
               ,
               but
               for
               want
               of
               Issue
               of
               that
               Brother
               ,
               must
               go
               to
               the
               Uncle
               .
               So
               he
               swears
               he
               was
               disinherited
               of
               an
               Estate
               when
               he
               was
               to
               have
               no
               Estate
               ▪
               nor
               could
               have
               .
               Call
               Mr.
               
                 John
                 Turbervill
              
               
                 (
                 who
                 appeared
                 .
                 )
              
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               you
               to
               ask
               him
               whether
               he
               knew
               that
               upon
               his
               coming
               back
               to
               England
               ,
               he
               was
               ill
               used
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               knew
               any
               unkindness
               from
               my
               elder
               Brother
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               you
               his
               Brother
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               by
               the
               Father
               ,
               not
               by
               the
               Mother
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Well
               ,
               what
               can
               you
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               never
               heard
               any
               thing
               when
               he
               returned
               from
               Doway
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               ill
               received
               by
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               ,
               but
               in
               a
               few
               days
               after
               my
               Brother
               and
               Sister
               came
               to
               Town
               ,
               we
               went
               to
               Bloomesbury
               ,
               and
               there
               we
               met
               together
               ;
               and
               my
               Brother
               complaining
               that
               he
               was
               unfortunate
               in
               that
               he
               had
               undertaken
               what
               he
               could
               not
               perform
               in
               going
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               and
               now
               wanted
               a
               Livelihood
               ;
               my
               eldest
               Brother
               told
               him
               he
               had
               done
               as
               far
               as
               his
               Ability
               was
               ,
               he
               could
               do
               no
               more
               ,
               it
               was
               his
               own
               Choice
               ,
               and
               he
               had
               no
               more
               to
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Had
               he
               any
               money
               from
               his
               Relations
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               He
               made
               intercession
               by
               Friends
               to
               my
               Sister
               ,
               and
               she
               told
               me
               that
               she
               gave
               him
               7
               l.
               to
               bear
               his
               Charges
               to
               Paris
               ,
               with
               that
               Proviso
               that
               he
               would
               never
               trouble
               them
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               were
               they
               not
               angry
               with
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Here
               he
               is
               ,
               he
               cannot
               say
               they
               ever
               gave
               him
               an
               angry
               word
               in
               their
               days
               ,
               I
               'm
               sure
               ,
               I
               never
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               not
               forbid
               him
               the
               House
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Edw.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               These
               are
               people
               that
               take
               not
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               ,
               and
               therefore
               are
               not
               fit
               to
               be
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Now
               your
               Lordships
               see
               what
               a
               Villain
               he
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               You
               must
               give
               good
               words
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               for
               none
               but
               good
               words
               are
               given
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               must
               call
               them
               Vill●ius
               ,
               or
               my self
               Traitor
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               say
               they
               gave
               him
               7
               l.
               upon
               condition
               they
               should
               never
               see
               him
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               say
               ,
               my
               Sister
               said
               upon
               condition
               she
               would
               give
               him
               7
               l.
               he
               would
               never
               trouble
               us
               more
               ,
               it
               was
               his
               Declaration
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               One
               thing
               I
               w●●ld
               ask
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               more
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               about
               this
               man's
               being
               disinherited
               :
               Whether
               he
               could
               ,
               or
               whether
               he
               was
               Heir
               to
               any
               Estate
               or
               not
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               By
               all
               the
               Information
               of
               our
               Relations
               ,
               the
               Estate
               was
               made
               by
               my
               Grand-father
               to
               my
               Father
               for
               life
               ,
               and
               after
               my
               Fathers
               life
               to
               my
               Mothers
               ,
               and
               after
               my
               Mothers
               life
               to
               my
               Eldest
               Brother
               ,
               and
               the
               Heirs
               males
               of
               his
               Body
               ;
               and
               for
               want
               of
               such
               ,
               afterwards
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               the
               Heirs
               males
               of
               my
               Body
               ;
               and
               in
               case
               I
               had
               none
               ,
               then
               to
               my
               Fathers
               Brother
               ,
               and
               his
               Heirs
               males
               :
               and
               if
               he
               had
               no
               Heirs
               males
               ,
               then
               after
               that
               to
               the
               right
               Heirs
               of
               the
               Grand-father
               .
               This
               was
               before
               my
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Well
               then
               ,
               that
               Remainder
               to
               the
               right
               Heirs
               ,
               might
               come
               to
               him
               ;
               and
               so
               there
               was
               some
               Estate
               for
               him
               to
               lose
               ,
               and
               that
               Remainder
               might
               be
               docked
               by
               the
               Tenant
               in
               Tail.
               I
               would
               ask
               ,
               Was
               there
               any
               Recovery
               suffered
               to
               bar
               that
               Intail
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               think
               there
               was
               one
               upon
               my
               Brothers
               Marriage
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               Were
               you
               told
               you
               should
               be
               disinherited
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               E.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               told
               you
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               E.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               eldest
               Brother
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               did
               he
               tell
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               E
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               He
               told
               me
               it
               should
               not
               come
               to
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               should
               it
               come
               to
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               E.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               not
               so
               good
               a
               Lawyer
               as
               to
               tell
               that
               ,
               whether
               it
               could
               or
               no
               ,
               but
               I
               thought
               by
               Succession
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               he
               says
               he
               came
               to
               serve
               my
               Lady
               Mullineux
               in
               (
               72.
               )
               it
               may
               be
               it
               is
               so
               as
               he
               says
               ,
               I
               don't
               know
               it
               of
               my
               own
               knowledge
               ;
               but
               I
               pray
               he
               may
               answer
               ,
               whether
               it
               was
               in
               (
               71
               )
               or
               (
               72.
               )
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               J.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               In
               January
               or
               February
               (
               71.
               )
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Treby
               .
            
             
               That
               is
               the
               beginning
               of
               the
               year
               (
               72
               ,
               )
               according
               to
               the
               Almanack
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               for
               the
               present
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               any
               thing
               more
               —
               Oh
               ,
               yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               he
               was
               at
               such
               a
               time
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               ,
               when
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               at
               
               Powis-Castle
               ,
               which
               must
               be
               either
               in
               the
               year
               (
               72
               )
               (
               73
               )
               or
               (
               74.
               )
               Now
               I
               desire
               you
               would
               ask
               Mr.
               Lydcot
               whether
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               there
               ,
               or
               could
               be
               there
               in
               any
               of
               those
               years
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             Lydcot
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               ask
               him
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               in
               the
               year
               (
               72
               ,
               )
               (
               73
               ,
               )
               or
               (
               74.
               )
               which
               are
               the
               years
               Turbervill
               says
               he
               was
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               at
               
               Powis-Castle
               ,
               whether
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               at
               
               Powis-Castle
               ,
               or
               could
               be
               there
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               there
               in
               any
               of
               those
               years
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can
               prove
               he
               was
               not
               ,
               as
               much
               as
               I
               am
               capable
               of
               
               proving
               a
               Negative
               .
               I
               was
               with
               him
               in
               the
               years
               72
               ,
               73
               ,
               and
               74.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               in
               England
               in
               73.
               
               I
               was
               with
               him
               all
               the
               while
               ;
               and
               I
               am
               sure
               since
               I
               knew
               him
               he
               was
               never
               in
               Wales
               ,
               and
               I
               was
               never
               absent
               from
               him
               since
               I
               knew
               him
               (
               which
               is
               nine
               years
               )
               not
               four
               months
               in
               all
               .
               I
               have
               travelled
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               been
               abroad
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Turbervill
               ,
               When
               do
               you
               say
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               at
               Powis
               Castle
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               think
               it
               was
               in
               the
               year
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               By
               what
               Token
               do
               you
               remember
               him
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               arguing
               with
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               about
               Religion
               ,
               and
               several
               times
               he
               did
               so
               ;
               I
               believe
               it
               was
               in
               the
               year
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               can
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               he
               was
               not
               there
               then
               ,
               I
               was
               always
               with
               him
               that
               year
               ;
               he
               had
               many
               times
               a
               design
               to
               go
               there
               ,
               but
               he
               could
               not
               but
               put
               it
               off
               ,
               and
               the
               last
               time
               he
               was
               there
               ,
               I
               can
               prove
               it
               was
               fifteen
               years
               ago
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               of
               you
               this
               ,
               Friend
               ,
               can
               you
               take
               it
               upon
               you
               to
               affirm
               upon
               the
               Faith
               of
               a
               Christian
               ,
               that
               you
               were
               never
               from
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               all
               the
               year
               73
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               can
               give
               an
               account
               to
               half
               a
               week
               where
               he
               was
               .
               And
               when
               I
               was
               absent
               from
               him
               ,
               it
               was
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               and
               all
               that
               while
               I
               kept
               Correspondence
               with
               him
               every
               Post
               ,
               and
               received
               Letters
               from
               him
               constantly
               once
               a
               week
               dated
               from
               
                 Liege
                 .
              
               :
               This
               was
               in
               the
               time
               of
               my
               absence
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               at
               Liege
               when
               my
               Lord
               was
               in
               England
               ,
               or
               were
               you
               with
               him
               all
               the
               time
               that
               he
               was
               in
               England
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               I
               was
               with
               him
               all
               the
               time
               he
               was
               in
               England
               ,
               and
               was
               never
               absent
               from
               him
               all
               that
               compass
               of
               time
               ,
               but
               when
               he
               sent
               me
               into
               England
               from
               Liege
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               he
               was
               at
               Liege
               himself
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               that
               in
               the
               year
               73
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               then
               in
               England
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can
               give
               you
               an
               whole
               account
               ,
               for
               my
               Lord
               and
               I
               never
               made
               any
               Journeys
               ,
               but
               I
               put
               them
               down
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               say
               you
               can
               give
               a
               particular
               account
               of
               the
               whole
               year
               73.
               even
               to
               the
               compass
               of
               four
               days
               in
               that
               year
               at
               most
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               say
               so
               ,
               but
               I
               say
               I
               can
               give
               an
               account
               of
               the
               whole
               time
               I
               have
               been
               with
               him
               within
               four
               months
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               any
               of
               those
               months
               within
               the
               year
               73
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               was
               with
               him
               all
               the
               year
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               take
               it
               upon
               you
               to
               say
               ,
               That
               every
               day
               in
               73.
               you
               were
               with
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Every
               day
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Every
               week
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               think
               but
               that
               I
               was
               .
               My
               Lord
               did
               me
               the
               honour
               to
               make
               me
               as
               it
               were
               his
               Companion
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               you
               do
               your self
               the
               honour
               to
               make
               your self
               his
               Companion
               ,
               he
               made
               you
               his
               Servant
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Come
               ,
               where
               are
               your
               Notes
               you
               pretend
               to
               speak
               by
               ?
               your
               Diary
               ,
               or
               your
               Journal
               ?
               let
               us
               hear
               a
               whole
               account
               of
               the
               year
               73.
               for
               you
               come
               to
               testifie
               as
               if
               you
               could
               give
               an
               account
               of
               every
               day
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               think
               any
               Question
               of
               this
               Nature
               would
               come
               on
               the
               stage
               ,
               there
               is
               my
               Lords
               Steward
               can
               give
               a
               very
               good
               account
               of
               this
               by
               his
               Account
               Books
               ,
               which
               are
               all
               ready
               to
               be
               produced
               ;
               he
               can
               tell
               where
               my
               Lord
               was
               ,
               by
               laying
               out
               such
               and
               such
               moneys
               .
               And
               't
               is
               an
               hard
               thing
               to
               give
               a
               Testimony
               after
               so
               many
               years
               ,
               of
               a
               thing
               that
               we
               thought
               not
               would
               ever
               be
               a
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Let
               us
               see
               your
               Notes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               read
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               was
               this
               written
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               took
               this
               out
               of
               another
               Book
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Lately
               ,
               since
               Mr.
               
               Turbervill's
               Narrative
               came
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Oh
               ,
               I
               desire
               that
               may
               be
               observed
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               desire
               that
               he
               may
               bring
               his
               Books
               ,
               Oh
               ,
               oh
               ,
               will
               not
               condemn
               me
               ,
               but
               Law
               and
               Justice
               .
               I
               am
               not
               to
               be
               run
               down
               with
               Oh
               ,
               oh
               ,
               or
               what
               such
               impudent
               Villains
               as
               these
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Read
               what
               you
               have
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               From
               Liege
               we
               set
               forth
               to
               
                 Paris
                 ,
                 January
              
               1.
               72.
               where
               we
               staid
               three
               weeks
               ,
               and
               arrived
               thence
               at
               
                 London
                 January
              
               24.
               there
               we
               staid
               till
               May
               73.
               and
               from
               thence
               we
               went
               to
               Liege
               again
               in
               June
               ,
               and
               from
               Liege
               we
               set
               forth
               to
               London
               in
               August
               ,
               and
               returned
               October
               the
               3d.
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               all
               the
               while
               between
               August
               and
               October
               in
               London
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               morally
               certain
               ,
               that
               I
               did
               not
               go
               from
               my
               Lord
               all
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               were
               you
               after
               October
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Which
               October
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               please
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               October
               ,
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               At
               Liege
               ,
               for
               we
               returned
               to
               Liege
               at
               October
               the
               3d.
               and
               then
               after
               this
               my
               Lord
               sent
               me
               into
               England
               .
               I
               left
               him
               at
               Liege
               ,
               and
               from
               thence
               I
               set
               out
               for
               England
               ,
               and
               in
               January
               I
               returned
               to
               Liege
               ,
               which
               was
               the
               greatest
               part
               of
               time
               that
               I
               was
               ever
               absent
               from
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               And
               was
               he
               at
               Liege
               ,
               are
               you
               sure
               ,
               all
               that
               time
               from
               October
               to
               January
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               except
               he
               fled
               :
               For
               I
               sent
               Letters
               by
               the
               Foreign
               Post
               ,
               and
               received
               Letters
               by
               the
               Foreign
               Post
               every
               week
               .
               And
               his
               Account-Books
               will
               speak
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               one
               Question
               (
               since
               he
               can
               give
               so
               exact
               an
               account
               )
               whether
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               in
               England
               (
               72
               )
               and
               how
               much
               of
               that
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               How
               many
               months
               of
               the
               year
               (
               72
               )
               was
               he
               in
               England
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               read
               it
               before
               .
               We
               arrived
               from
               Liege
               to
               
                 London
                 ,
                 January
              
               24.
               
               (
               72.
               )
               and
               staid
               at
               London
               till
               May
               (
               73.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               where
               was
               my
               Lord
               all
               the
               year
               (
               72
               ?
               )
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               do
               you
               mean
               New
               stile
               ,
               or
               Old
               stile
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               I
               speak
               of
               his
               being
               at
               London
               ,
               I
               mean
               the
               stile
               of
               the
               Countrey
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Then
               under
               favour
               ,
               he
               speaks
               of
               the
               latter
               part
               of
               the
               year
               :
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               ,
               whether
               my
               Lord
               for
               all
               the
               former
               part
               of
               the
               year
               was
               in
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               was
               my
               Lord
               in
               December
               (
               72.
               )
               and
               in
               November
               before
               that
               ,
               and
               in
               all
               the
               year
               up
               backwards
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               told
               you
               the
               whole
               year
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               But
               where
               was
               my
               Lord
               from
               January
               71.
               to
               January
               72
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               In
               71.
               
               June
               19.
               
               New
               stile
               ,
               we
               came
               to
               London
               ,
               and
               returned
               in
               September
               to
               Liege
               ;
               from
               Liege
               we
               set
               forth
               to
               
                 Paris
                 January
              
               1.
               72.
               and
               arrived
               at
               
                 London
                 January
              
               24.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               runs
               past
               the
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               ask
               him
               a
               plain
               Question
               ,
               but
               he
               does
               not
               answer
               it
               ;
               he
               slips
               over
               the
               time
               that
               we
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               ask
               him
               about
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               that
               it
               may
               be
               made
               plain
               ,
               that
               there
               may
               nothing
               be
               said
               afterwards
               that
               it
               was
               not
               plain
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Sir
               ,
               Do
               you
               propose
               any
               thing
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               answer
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Answer
               not
               us
               ,
               answer
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               any
               body
               may
               peruse
               my
               Notes
               ,
               if
               they
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               answer
               the
               Question
               ,
               whichin
               very
               short
               terms
               is
               this
               ,
               where
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               all
               the
               whole
               year
               72.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               Well
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               :
               I
               can
               but
               read
               it
               over
               again
               .
               From
               Liege
               we
               set
               forth
               to
               
                 Paris
                 ,
                 January
              
               1.
               72.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               not
               you
               a
               rare
               Fellow
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               understand
               it
               according
               to
               the
               stile
               of
               that
               Country
               when
               I
               am
               there
               ,
               and
               of
               this
               place
               when
               I
               am
               here
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Answer
               me
               according
               to
               our
               stile
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               This
               that
               I
               have
               written
               here
               ,
               in
               the
               Book
               out
               of
               which
               I
               took
               it
               ,
               
               hath
               been
               written
               ever
               since
               that
               time
               ;
               and
               I
               did
               not
               think
               I
               should
               er'e
               be
               called
               to
               account
               about
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Begin
               January
               the
               1st
               .
               71.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               We
               went
               from
               Liege
               to
               Paris
               ,
               where
               we
               staid
               about
               a
               week
               ,
               or
               such
               a
               time
               ,
               and
               we
               arrived
               at
               
                 London
                 ,
                 January
              
               24.
               that
               is
               the
               Old
               stile
               ,
               and
               staid
               at
               London
               till
               May
               8.
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               is
               impossible
               ,
               for
               you
               '
               scape
               a
               year
               and
               a
               half
               to
               together
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               was
               here
               in
               England
               in
               January
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               begin
               very
               gravely
               with
               
                 January
                 ,
                 stylo
                 veteri
              
               ,
               that
               you
               came
               from
               Liege
               ,
               and
               so
               January
               24.
               
                 stylo
                 veteri
              
               ,
               you
               came
               to
               London
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               When
               I
               speak
               of
               any
               style
               ,
               I
               understand
               it
               according
               to
               the
               style
               of
               the
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               in
               your
               account
               ,
               what
               is
               become
               of
               all
               the
               time
               from
               January
               71.
               to
               January
               72.
               say
               and
               swear
               ,
               if
               you
               can
               ,
               where
               my
               Lord
               was
               all
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               He
               must
               be
               in
               London
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Can
               you
               take
               it
               upon
               your
               Oath
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               was
               in
               London
               from
               January
               71.
               
                 stylo
                 veteri
              
               to
               May
               73.
               
                 stylo
                 veteri
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               know
               how
               to
               count
               better
               than
               I
               have
               done
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
               says
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               in
               73.
               at
               
               Powis-Castle
               ;
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               this
               man
               may
               be
               asked
               ,
               and
               that
               without
               any
               interruption
               ,
               where
               my
               Lord
               was
               that
               year
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               With
               your
               Lordships
               favour
               ,
               I
               must
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               ask
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               whether
               he
               did
               say
               positively
               the
               year
               ●3
               .
               for
               if
               my
               Ears
               and
               my
               Notes
               do
               not
               fail
               me
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               
                 As
                 he
                 remembred
              
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               the
               reason
               why
               we
               ask
               about
               the
               year
               72.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               say
               positively
               ,
               nor
               cannot
               ,
               which
               year
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               stand
               upon
               it
               that
               he
               was
               in
               
                 London
                 January
              
               72.
               and
               went
               away
               May
               73.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               becomes
               of
               the
               mean
               time
               ,
               between
               January
               71.
               and
               May
               73
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lydcot
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               explain
               my self
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               will
               you
               call
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               them
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Shaftsbury
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               ,
               I
               desire
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               may
               be
               asked
               how
               many
               Witnesses
               my
               Lord
               hath
               more
               ,
               for
               it
               now
               grows
               late
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               how
               many
               Witnesses
               you
               have
               more
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Three
               or
               four
               ,
               I
               can't
               well
               tell
               how
               many
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Adjourn
               ,
               Adjourn
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord.
               High.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               that
               we
               do
               Adjourn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               this
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Lords
             returned
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             to
             their
             House
             ,
             and
             the
             Commons
             went
             back
             to
             their
             House
             .
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
            
             ,
             resumed
             the
             Chair
             ,
             and
             a
             Message
             from
             the
             Lords
             was
             sent
             by
             Sir
             
               Timothy
               Baldwin
            
             and
             Sir
             
               Samuel
               Clark.
            
             
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               ,
            
             
               The
               Lords
               have
               sent
               us
               to
               acquaint
               this
               House
               ,
               that
               they
               have
               Ordered
               the
               Prisoner
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               to
               be
               brought
               again
               to
               his
               Tryal
               at
               the
               Bar
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               to
               morrow
               morning
               at
               Ten
               of
               the
               Clock
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             The
             Fourth
             Day
             .
          
           
             
               Friday
               ,
               December
            
             3.
             1680.
             
          
           
             ABout
             the
             Hour
             of
             Ten
             in
             the
             Morning
             the
             Lords
             Adjourned
             into
             Westminster-Hall
             ,
             and
             returned
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             into
             the
             Court
             there
             erected
             ;
             and
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
            
             having
             left
             the
             Chair
             ,
             the
             Commons
             were
             seated
             as
             before
             mentioned
             .
          
           
             The
             Court
             being
             sat
             ,
             Proclamation
             for
             Silence
             was
             made
             ,
             and
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             commanded
             to
             bring
             his
             Prisoner
             to
             the
             Bar
             ,
             which
             being
             done
             ,
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             spake
             to
             the
             Prisoner
             as
             followeth
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               Defence
               took
               up
               yesterday
               ;
               All
               the
               day
               was
               employed
               in
               hearing
               your
               Lordships
               Witnesses
               to
               impeach
               the
               Credit
               of
               the
               Testimony
               that
               hath
               been
               given
               against
               you
               .
               Your
               Lordship
               hath
               excepted
               against
               Dugdale
               ,
               because
               you
               were
               not
               at
               Tixall
               ,
               as
               he
               says
               you
               were
               ;
               neither
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               ,
               nor
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               till
               the
               Twelfth
               ;
               and
               when
               you
               were
               there
               ,
               you
               never
               sent
               for
               him
               to
               your
               Chamber
               ,
               but
               your
               Man
               upon
               his
               own
               desire
               brought
               him
               ,
               and
               when
               he
               came
               there
               ,
               the
               business
               was
               to
               desire
               you
               to
               get
               leave
               that
               he
               might
               go
               to
               the
               Race
               ;
               and
               there
               was
               no
               opportunity
               of
               private
               Discourse
               ,
               because
               your
               Men
               were
               in
               the
               Room
               all
               the
               while
               ;
               That
               Dugdale
               hath
               often
               said
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ;
               that
               he
               swore
               falsly
               when
               he
               said
               he
               told
               of
               the
               Letter
               about
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
               
                 Edmunbury
                 Godfrey
              
               before
               it
               was
               known
               he
               was
               killed
               ;
               and
               when
               he
               said
               ,
               that
               Hobson
               told
               him
               presently
               after
               the
               Almoner
               went
               over
               ,
               which
               was
               three
               years
               before
               Hobson
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Service
               .
               Your
               Lordship
               hath
               likewise
               objected
               ,
               that
               he
               hath
               corrupted
               persons
               to
               swear
               falsly
               against
               you
               ,
               and
               others
               ,
               as
               Robinson
               the
               Upholsterer
               ,
               against
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               Morrall
               the
               Barber
               against
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               and
               Holt
               the
               Blacksmith
               to
               swear
               that
               one
               Moor
               carried
               away
               Evers
               .
               Your
               Lordship
               hath
               endeavoured
               to
               discredit
               Oats
               ,
               by
               his
               saying
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               any
               other
               persons
               that
               were
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               after
               accusing
               the
               Queen
               :
               Your
               Lordship
               hath
               Impeached
               the
               Credit
               of
               Turbervill
               ,
               by
               proving
               ,
               that
               you
               came
               home
               by
               Diep
               ,
               and
               not
               by
               Calice
               ,
               as
               he
               says
               you
               did
               ;
               That
               you
               had
               never
               the
               Gout
               while
               you
               were
               in
               France
               ,
               nor
               ,
               as
               your
               Page
               says
               ,
               for
               these
               seven
               years
               ;
               That
               my
               Lord
               Castlemain
               was
               not
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               in
               the
               year
               73.
               and
               there
               you
               left
               off
               .
               This
               I
               take
               is
               the
               Sum
               of
               what
               your
               Lordship
               says
               ,
               if
               I
               do
               you
               any
               wrong
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               will
               put
               me
               in
               mind
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               thank
               your
               Lordship
               ,
               you
               have
               done
               it
               with
               great
               Equity
               and
               Truth
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               go
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               The
               next
               Witness
               that
               I
               call
               ,
               is
               one
               
                 John
                 Porter
              
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               John
               Porter
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Profession
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               A
               Butler
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               To
               whom
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               To
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               would
               ask
               him
               what
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               said
               about
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               will
               ask
               him
               all
               the
               Questions
               your
               Lordship
               desires
               I
               should
               ask
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               what
               Religion
               he
               is
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               would
               ask
               him
               that
               Question
               ,
               and
               not
               the
               Managers
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               They
               will
               tell
               me
               their
               Questions
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               I
               will
               ask
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               They
               ask
               him
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               not
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               A
               Church
               of
               England
               man
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               The
               Popish
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               I
               believe
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ▪
               let
               not
               this
               be
               ,
               when
               my
               Witness
               says
               he
               is
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               they
               cry
               he
               is
               of
               the
               Popish
               Church
               of
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               good
               my
               Lord
               ,
               we
               are
               silent
               when
               you
               ask
               him
               
               proper
               Questions
               ,
               and
               make
               no
               Remarks
               ,
               we
               do
               not
               speak
               it
               to
               the
               Court
               ,
               we
               may
               say
               what
               we
               will
               among
               our selves
               ,
               I
               hope
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               may
               ask
               impertinent
               Questions
               ,
               because
               I
               do
               not
               understand
               so
               well
               as
               these
               Gentlemen
               .
               But
               I
               pray
               they
               may
               not
               deal
               thus
               with
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               you
               shall
               ask
               what
               Questions
               you
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ask
               him
               what
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               said
               to
               him
               about
               his
               knowledge
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               did
               Turbervill
               say
               to
               you
               about
               his
               knowing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               About
               a
               year
               since
               ,
               when
               I
               served
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               ,
               as
               Butler
               there
               ,
               he
               was
               used
               to
               come
               and
               see
               me
               ,
               it
               was
               not
               at
               my
               Lords
               House
               ,
               but
               he
               sent
               for
               me
               to
               a
               Victualling-House
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               was
               the
               last
               year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               time
               of
               the
               Year
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               about
               Twelve
               Months
               ago
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               positively
               the
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               it
               Winter
               or
               Summer
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               He
               hath
               been
               both
               ,
               I
               can't
               be
               positive
               which
               ;
               I
               believe
               he
               hath
               been
               there
               40
               times
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               In
               the
               year
               (
               80
               )
               or
               (
               79
               ?
               )
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               year
               (
               79.
               )
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               did
               he
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               He
               came
               there
               ,
               and
               asked
               me
               how
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               did
               ,
               and
               said
               he
               was
               extremely
               troubled
               that
               he
               was
               in
               that
               Affliction
               ,
               for
               he
               did
               verily
               believe
               ,
               that
               neither
               he
               ,
               nor
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Lords
               were
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               the
               Witnesses
               that
               swore
               against
               him
               ,
               he
               believed
               were
               perjured
               ,
               and
               could
               not
               believe
               any
               thing
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               any
               more
               to
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               if
               there
               were
               such
               a
               thing
               as
               a
               Plot
               ,
               he
               having
               been
               beyond
               Sea
               ,
               must
               certainly
               know
               of
               it
               ;
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               as
               he
               hoped
               for
               Salvation
               ,
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               it
               ,
               neither
               directly
               nor
               indirectly
               ,
               against
               the
               Kings
               Sacred
               Person
               ,
               nor
               the
               Subversion
               of
               the
               Government
               .
               And
               he
               further
               said
               ;
               Although
               I
               am
               a
               little
               low
               at
               present
               ,
               and
               my
               Friends
               will
               not
               look
               upon
               me
               ,
               yet
               I
               hope
               God
               Almighty
               will
               never
               leave
               me
               so
               much
               ,
               as
               to
               let
               me
               swear
               against
               innocent
               Persons
               ,
               and
               forswear
               and
               damn
               my self
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               was
               this
               said
               to
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               At
               the
               Ship
               Alehouse
               in
               
                 Lincolns
                 Inn
                 Fields
              
               one
               time
               ,
               another
               time
               at
               the
               
                 Kings
                 Head
              
               Tavern
               in
               the
               Strand
               ,
               and
               another
               time
               at
               the
               
                 Golden
                 Ball
              
               in
               the
               Strand
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               any
               body
               by
               ,
               besides
               your self
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               Not
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               but
               there
               is
               a
               Gentleman
               in
               Court
               ,
               that
               can
               testifie
               that
               he
               said
               such
               things
               at
               other
               times
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               this
               Turbervill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               't
               is
               all
               false
               .
               But
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               'll
               tell
               you
               what
               I
               said
               once
               ,
               I
               did
               conceive
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               was
               the
               least
               concerned
               of
               any
               ,
               I
               thought
               ,
               and
               I
               hoped
               it
               would
               prove
               so
               .
               I
               can
               take
               all
               the
               Oaths
               in
               the
               world
               I
               said
               no
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               else
               do
               you
               know
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               Only
               such
               things
               as
               these
               he
               hath
               often
               said
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Shaftsbury
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               him
               how
               came
               Turbervill
               to
               talk
               of
               Witnesses
               about
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Upon
               what
               occasion
               came
               Turbervill
               to
               talk
               of
               these
               matters
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               only
               voluntary
               of
               himself
               ,
               it
               was
               speaking
               of
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               ,
               and
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Lords
               in
               the
               Tower.
               
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Shaftsbury
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               I
               mean
               of
               his
               own
               being
               a
               Witness
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               came
               Turbervill
               to
               say
               ,
               he
               hoped
               God
               Almighty
               would
               never
               forsake
               him
               so
               far
               ,
               as
               to
               let
               him
               swear
               against
               innocent
               Persons
               ,
               he
               was
               never
               called
               to
               be
               a
               Witness
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               some
               of
               his
               Friends
               did
               say
               they
               were
               fearful
               of
               him
               ,
               in
               regard
               he
               was
               reduced
               to
               poverty
               ;
               His
               Friends
               were
               fearful
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               were
               fearful
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               His
               Brother
               and
               Sister
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               and
               his
               Wife
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               take
               notice
               to
               you
               that
               they
               were
               afraid
               he
               would
               come
               in
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               did
               tell
               me
               himself
               ,
               that
               they
               heard
               he
               would
               come
               in
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               said
               all
               you
               have
               to
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Porter
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               that
               is
               all
               I
               have
               to
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               call
               another
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Where
               is
               Mr.
               Yalden
               ?
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Yalden
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Christian
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               John.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Profession
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               A
               Barrester
               at
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               have
               you
               been
               called
               to
               the
               Bar
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               called
               to
               the
               Bar
               last
               
                 Trinity
                 Term
              
               12
               months
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               House
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               Grays-Inn
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               you
               a
               Practiser
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               Of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Well
               ,
               what
               can
               you
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               summoned
               to
               appear
               by
               Order
               of
               this
               House
               ,
               and
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               of
               my
               Lord
               what
               he
               is
               pleased
               to
               examine
               me
               about
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               What
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               hath
               said
               in
               his
               hearing
               about
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Discourse
               hath
               passed
               between
               you
               and
               Turbervill
               about
               the
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               February
               or
               March
               last
               ,
               I
               was
               walking
               in
               Grays-Inn-Walks
               with
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Powell
               and
               he
               dined
               with
               me
               a
               day
               or
               two
               after
               ,
               and
               there
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               and
               I
               were
               talking
               of
               the
               Distractions
               of
               the
               Times
               ,
               how
               Trade
               was
               ruined
               ,
               how
               the
               whole
               Kingdom
               was
               out
               of
               order
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               a
               little
               touched
               at
               some
               things
               ,
               and
               cryed
               out
               ,
               
                 Go
                 !
                 Dam
                 me
                 ,
                 now
                 ,
                 there
                 is
                 no
                 Trade
                 good
                 but
                 that
                 of
                 a
                 Discoverer
                 ,
                 but
                 the
                 Devil
                 take
                 the
                 Duke
                 of
              
               York
               ,
               Monmouth
               ,
               
                 Plot
                 and
                 all
                 ,
                 for
                 I
                 know
                 nothing
                 of
                 it
                 .
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               is
               odd
               ,
               that
               he
               should
               say
               it
               was
               a
               good
               Trade
               to
               be
               a
               Discoverer
               ,
               and
               at
               the
               same
               time
               say
               ,
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               This
               I
               understood
               to
               be
               his
               meaning
               ;
               he
               cursed
               himself
               and
               them
               ,
               because
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               the
               Plot
               to
               discover
               ,
               for
               he
               would
               have
               got
               money
               by
               it
               (
               as
               I
               understood
               )
               as
               well
               as
               others
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Yalden
               did
               declare
               yesterday
               ,
               he
               was
               summoned
               in
               by
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               the
               last
               night
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               had
               nothing
               to
               say
               but
               what
               was
               by
               Hear
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               declare
               what
               I
               say
               is
               true
               ;
               and
               yesterday
               Mr.
               Powell
               gave
               me
               a
               Caution
               to
               take
               heed
               what
               I
               did
               ,
               and
               swore
               ,
               by
               God
               ,
               it
               would
               else
               be
               the
               worse
               for
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               did
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Powell
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               is
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               
               Turbervill's
               Friend
               .
               And
               I
               said
               I
               do
               not
               appear
               here
               as
               a
               voluntary
               Evidence
               ,
               but
               by
               an
               Order
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               ;
               I
               do
               not
               know
               what
               weight
               my
               Evidence
               may
               have
               ,
               for
               I
               can
               say
               nothing
               but
               what
               I
               heard
               him
               say
               ,
               and
               so
               perhaps
               it
               will
               be
               taken
               but
               for
               an
               Hear-say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               You
               said
               you
               knew
               nothing
               but
               by
               Hear-say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               as
               to
               these
               Points
               ;
               I
               have
               here
               a
               Copy
               of
               the
               Warrant
               for
               the
               Yaught
               to
               go
               to
               Diep
               ;
               and
               if
               there
               be
               any
               Question
               whether
               I
               did
               come
               over
               from
               Diep
               at
               Christmas
               75.
               if
               you
               please
               the
               Book
               may
               be
               searched
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               it
               is
               all
               lost
               ,
               for
               I
               hear
               not
               one
               word
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               it
               be
               fit
               to
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               it
               ,
               I
               can
               prove
               that
               I
               did
               come
               over
               in
               the
               Yaught
               from
               Diep
               at
               Christmas
               75.
               
               Here
               is
               the
               Copy
               of
               the
               Warrant
               for
               it
               to
               go
               for
               me
               .
               And
               whether
               you
               will
               have
               it
               proved
               that
               I
               did
               come
               over
               thence
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               suppose
               that
               is
               fully
               proved
               already
               ,
               that
               you
               did
               come
               by
               Diep
               .
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               We
               do
               not
               deny
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               do
               not
               stand
               upon
               it
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ,
               do
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               no
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               admitted
               to
               you
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               when
               I
               went
               from
               your
               Lordships
               Bar
               last
               night
               ,
               I
               had
               no
               thoughts
               of
               examining
               any
               Witnesss
               ,
               but
               what
               I
               have
               already
               done
               :
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               since
               I
               was
               here
               ,
               there
               hath
               something
               happened
               ,
               about
               which
               I
               desire
               Dr.
               Oats
               may
               be
               called
               again
               ,
               (
               I
               shall
               give
               you
               the
               reason
               why
               I
               move
               it
               afterwards
               ,
               )
               upon
               something
               I
               heard
               yesternight
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Call
               Dr.
               Oats
               again
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             appeared
             and
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               what
               does
               your
               Lordship
               call
               him
               for
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               did
               say
               ,
               that
               he
               being
               a
               Minister
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               did
               seemingly
               go
               over
               to
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               or
               some
               such
               words
               ;
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               answer
               that
               first
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               did
               say
               ,
               I
               did
               but
               seemingly
               go
               over
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               ,
               whether
               he
               was
               really
               a
               Papist
               ,
               or
               did
               but
               pretend
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               only
               pretend
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               really
               one
               ,
               I
               declare
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               make
               of
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               how
               long
               Dr.
               Oats
               was
               in
               Spain
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               came
               into
               Spain
               in
               May
               ,
               and
               I
               came
               home
               again
               in
               November
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               That
               is
               six
               months
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               called
               Dr.
               Oats
               :
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               he
               were
               a
               Doctor
               made
               at
               the
               Universities
               here
               ,
               or
               abroad
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               any
               matter
               that
               is
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               will
               answer
               to
               it
               ,
               but
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               call
               me
               to
               account
               for
               all
               the
               Actions
               of
               my
               life
               ,
               whatever
               Evidence
               is
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               will
               justifie
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Doctor
               hath
               never
               taken
               it
               upon
               his
               Oath
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               a
               Doctor
               ,
               and
               why
               do
               you
               ask
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               called
               a
               Doctor
               ,
               and
               I
               would
               know
               whether
               he
               did
               never
               declare
               upon
               his
               Oath
               ,
               that
               he
               took
               the
               Degree
               at
               Salamanca
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               ashamed
               of
               any
               thing
               I
               have
               said
               or
               done
               .
               
               I
               own
               what
               is
               entred
               as
               my
               Oath
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               am
               ready
               to
               answer
               it
               ;
               but
               I
               am
               not
               bound
               to
               say
               ,
               what
               does
               not
               at
               all
               concern
               this
               business
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               't
               is
               entred
               upon
               your
               Lordships
               Books
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               swear
               at
               the
               Council
               ,
               he
               was
               at
               Madrid
               with
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               
                 Austria
                 ;
                 I
              
               would
               know
               of
               him
               whether
               he
               did
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               have
               my
               Lord
               to
               propose
               the
               Question
               to
               the
               Court
               of
               Peers
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               sworn
               any
               thing
               of
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               Austria
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ▪
               I
               refer
               my self
               to
               the
               Council
               Book
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               may
               have
               that
               Book
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               believe
               it
               is
               in
               the
               Narrative
               ,
               turn
               to
               the
               Journal
               ,
               you
               have
               that
               mentioned
               there
               .
            
          
           
             To
             which
             the
             Clerk
             turned
             ,
             but
             it
             could
             not
             be
             sound
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               you
               will
               not
               acknwledge
               it
               ,
               we
               must
               stay
               till
               the
               Book
               be
               brought
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               will
               repeat
               ,
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               ,
               what
               was
               said
               at
               the
               Council
               Table
               ,
               but
               I
               had
               rather
               the
               Council
               Book
               were
               fetched
               ,
               because
               I
               am
               upon
               my
               Oath
               ;
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               always
               thought
               the
               Council
               Book
               is
               no
               Record
               upon
               any
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               it
               may
               be
               produced
               ,
               or
               he
               own
               that
               he
               said
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               you
               said
               at
               the
               Council
               Table
               ,
               you
               said
               upon
               your
               Oath
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               lawful
               to
               lay
               it
               before
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               But
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               as
               to
               what
               was
               said
               at
               the
               Council
               Table
               ,
               if
               my
               Lord
               will
               bring
               any
               one
               
                 Viva
                 voce
              
               ,
               to
               swear
               what
               was
               said
               by
               me
               there
               ,
               that
               will
               make
               something
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               may
               be
               material
               ,
               as
               he
               says
               ,
               That
               your
               Lordship
               should
               bring
               some
               body
               to
               swear
               he
               said
               so
               ;
               for
               the
               Clerks
               may
               mistake
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               that
               the
               Book
               may
               be
               sent
               for
               ,
               I
               will
               make
               it
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               It
               could
               not
               be
               read
               if
               it
               were
               here
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               the
               Clerks
               will
               swear
               what
               is
               in
               the
               Books
               ,
               it
               may
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               But
               whether
               the
               Clerks
               will
               take
               that
               upon
               them
               or
               no
               ,
               may
               be
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord.
               High.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Go
               on
               in
               the
               mean
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               conclude
               with
               him
               without
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               is
               the
               Council
               Book
               ?
               For
               the
               Clerks
               inform
               me
               't
               is
               not
               in
               their
               custody
               ;
               but
               the
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               have
               been
               attended
               with
               the
               Book
               ,
               and
               other
               Papers
               relating
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
            
             
               In
               the
               mean
               time
               ,
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               something
               ;
               though
               perhaps
               
               it
               may
               be
               nothing
               to
               the
               purpose
               ;
               Mr.
               Yalden
               was
               just
               now
               going
               down
               '
               and
               Turbervill
               threatned
               to
               lay
               him
               by
               the
               Heels
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               he
               did
               so
               ,
               't
               is
               a
               Misdemeanor
               ,
               and
               he
               must
               be
               punished
               for
               it
               .
               Call
               Yalden
               and
               Turbervill
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               Have
               you
               dared
               ,
               or
               threatned
               Yalden
               the
               Witness
               ,
               to
               lay
               him
               by
               the
               Heels
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               speak
               any
               such
               words
               to
               him
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               just
               by
               me
               all
               the
               while
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               tell
               you
               but
               what
               he
               said
               ,
               and
               what
               I
               can
               prove
               by
               Witness
               ;
               pray
               call
               Yalden
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               This
               Gentleman
               ,
               Captain
               Scudamore
               ,
               stood
               by
               me
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               I
               ask
               you
               upon
               this
               Misdemeanor
               ,
               Whether
               you
               threatned
               Yalden
               to
               lay
               him
               by
               the
               Heels
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               stood
               by
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               till
               he
               was
               gone
               down
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               could
               he
               lay
               him
               by
               the
               Heels
               ?
               By
               what
               Authority
               could
               he
               do
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               speak
               such
               a
               word
               ,
               upon
               my
               Oath
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Ask
               Yalden
               ,
               I
               am
               told
               he
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               am
               afraid
               you
               are
               misinformed
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               for
               he
               could
               not
               do
               it
               ,
               't
               is
               not
               in
               his
               power
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               threatned
               he
               would
               Goal
               him
               ,
               but
               if
               you
               won't
               Examine
               it
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Yalden
               ,
               it
               seems
               ,
               calls
               us
               a
               Pack
               of
               Rogues
               ,
               that
               give
               Evidence
               for
               the
               King
               ;
               and
               here
               are
               Witnesses
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               (
               Yalden
            
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Yalden
               ,
               were
               you
               threatned
               by
               Turbervill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               will
               tell
               you
               how
               I
               was
               threatned
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               pulls
               me
               by
               the
               Arm
               ,
               when
               I
               had
               given
               my
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               asked
               me
               if
               I
               knew
               him
               ,
               and
               bid
               me
               take
               care
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               call
               that
               a
               threatning
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               make
               this
               Complaint
               ,
               nor
               did
               I
               desire
               it
               should
               be
               made
               ;
               but
               speaking
               this
               in
               the
               Room
               ,
               some
               body
               carried
               it
               to
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               now
               he
               hath
               done
               ,
               let
               me
               speak
               ,
               I
               pray
               ;
               Mr.
               Yalden
               did
               say
               in
               the
               hearing
               of
               Captain
               Scudamore
               ,
               who
               is
               here
               ,
               he
               had
               got
               a
               great
               many
               Clients
               here
               ,
               but
               you
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               have
               got
               nothing
               but
               a
               pack
               of
               Rogues
               .
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               That
               is
               a
               mistake
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               This
               is
               fine
               work
               .
               But
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ,
               will
               you
               call
               Captain
               Scudamore
               now
               ,
               or
               will
               you
               stay
               till
               afterwards
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               desires
               it
               may
               be
               now
               ,
               and
               we
               do
               also
               desire
               it
               upon
               this
               occasion
               ,
               Captain
               Scudamore
               is
               a
               man
               of
               Quality
               ,
               and
               will
               
               give
               you
               a
               true
               account
               .
               We
               did
               not
               think
               to
               have
               interposed
               in
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               Evidence
               ,
               but
               he
               having
               impeached
               our
               Witnesses
               of
               a
               Misdemeanor
               ,
               we
               conceive
               it
               fittest
               to
               clear
               it
               at
               this
               time
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Captain
             Scudamore
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Scudamore
               ,
               what
               are
               you
               called
               for
               ?
               Can
               you
               say
               any
               thing
               that
               happened
               between
               Turbervill
               and
               Yalden
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Captain
               Scudamore
               .
            
             
               The
               Gentleman
               that
               is
               here
               ,
               that
               said
               he
               was
               one
               of
               Grays-Inn
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               his
               Name
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               Yalden
               .
            
          
           
             
               Captain
               Scudamore
               .
            
             
               I
               heard
               a
               Gentleman
               ask
               him
               ,
               if
               he
               came
               there
               to
               get
               Clients
               ?
               And
               he
               said
               ,
               I
               know
               nothing
               among
               you
               but
               Roguery
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Whereabouts
               did
               this
               Gentleman
               stand
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Captain
               Scudamore
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               Passage
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
             
               Here
               are
               five
               or
               six
               more
               that
               heard
               him
               say
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               That
               which
               I
               said
               ,
               was
               this
               ,
               That
               I
               might
               come
               hither
               for
               Practice
               ,
               but
               I
               did
               not
               come
               hither
               for
               Roguery
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               until
               such
               time
               as
               the
               Council-Book
               comes
               ,
               which
               may
               be
               sent
               for
               :
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               proceed
               to
               something
               else
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Wharton
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Steward
               ,
               I
               humbly
               conceive
               ,
               That
               it
               was
               resolved
               in
               the
               Lords
               House
               ,
               the
               day
               before
               yesterday
               ,
               that
               no
               Book
               should
               be
               sent
               for
               out
               of
               the
               Court
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               done
               upon
               the
               Judgment
               of
               all
               the
               Judges
               of
               England
               .
            
          
           
             
               Yalden
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               They
               will
               not
               permit
               me
               to
               go
               down
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               There
               is
               a
               strange
               Quarrel
               between
               you
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               an
               Affectation
               of
               complaining
               one
               of
               another
               .
               Let
               Mr.
               Yalden
               go
               down
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               only
               acquaint
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               the
               Council-Book
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               does
               make
               mention
               of
               ,
               was
               in
               the
               hands
               of
               our
               Clerk
               ,
               we
               did
               not
               know
               of
               it
               when
               it
               was
               first
               discoursed
               of
               ;
               but
               now
               understanding
               that
               here
               it
               is
               ,
               we
               desire
               it
               may
               be
               delivered
               in
               to
               any
               body
               that
               hath
               occasion
               for
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Hand
               it
               in
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Which
             was
             done
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               day
               does
               your
               Lordship
               speak
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               The
               28
               ,
               29
               ,
               or
               30.
               of
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
               Clerk.
               
            
             
               Then
               this
               is
               not
               the
               Book
               ,
               for
               this
               is
               for
               January
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               I
               may
               have
               Pen
               ,
               Ink
               ,
               and
               Paper
               allowed
               me
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               yes
               ,
               give
               my
               Lord
               Pen
               ,
               Ink
               and
               Paper
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 they
                 did
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Lord
             High
             Steward
             looked
             upon
             the
             Council-Book
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               In
               this
               Council-Book
               ,
               as
               far
               as
               we
               can
               inform
               our selves
               by
               the
               Table
               of
               it
               ,
               there
               is
               nothing
               at
               all
               of
               it
               ;
               it
               must
               be
               the
               Council-Book
               in
               September
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               have
               no
               other
               Book
               but
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               did
               not
               your
               Lordship
               send
               all
               this
               while
               to
               the
               Council
               Table
               for
               any
               thing
               that
               was
               material
               ,
               but
               give
               the
               Court
               the
               trouble
               to
               be
               interrupted
               upon
               your
               Inquiries
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               you
               may
               do
               what
               you
               please
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               know
               any
               such
               thing
               would
               have
               needed
               to
               be
               urged
               .
               I
               have
               proof
               enough
               without
               the
               book
               ;
               The
               use
               I
               should
               have
               made
               of
               it
               ,
               is
               this
               ,
               I
               do
               appeal
               to
               some
               of
               your
               Lordships
               (
               you
               that
               were
               of
               the
               Council
               )
               I
               do
               appeal
               to
               which
               of
               you
               that
               were
               by
               ,
               whether
               Dr.
               Oats
               did
               not
               say
               at
               the
               Council
               Table
               ,
               he
               had
               been
               at
               Madrid
               ,
               he
               went
               from
               Vallidolid
               to
               Madrid
               ,
               and
               there
               did
               preach
               something
               at
               the
               Jesuits
               Colledge
               at
               Madrid
               ,
               (
               what
               it
               was
               I
               cannot
               tell
               )
               when
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               Austria
               was
               by
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               any
               of
               my
               Lords
               of
               the
               Council
               do
               remember
               it
               they
               may
               Testifie
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               as
               much
               as
               I
               remember
               of
               it
               :
               Dr.
               Oats
               was
               examined
               about
               his
               Journey
               into
               Spain
               ,
               and
               (
               amongst
               the
               rest
               )
               some
               Question
               hapned
               to
               be
               asked
               ,
               whether
               he
               had
               seen
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               Austria
               ,
               he
               said
               he
               had
               seen
               one
               that
               was
               called
               so
               ,
               that
               he
               knew
               him
               not
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               pointed
               to
               one
               that
               they
               said
               was
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               Austria
               ;
               that
               I
               heard
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               thank
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               hear
               what
               is
               said
               ,
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               suppose
               I
               did
               say
               so
               ,
               I
               think
               there
               is
               no
               crime
               in
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               'T
               is
               not
               objected
               against
               you
               as
               a
               Crime
               ,
               but
               as
               a
               mistake
               in
               your
               Oath
               ,
               there
               was
               no
               such
               man
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               be
               misunderstood
               in
               the
               Evidence
               I
               give
               ;
               I
               did
               not
               say
               that
               Oats
               said
               he
               knew
               him
               ,
               but
               that
               he
               knew
               him
               not
               ,
               and
               only
               was
               told
               such
               a
               man
               was
               he
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               made
               apparent
               ,
               that
               I
               did
               not
               know
               him
               ,
               because
               I
               mistook
               his
               Person
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               stand
               upon
               it
               ,
               That
               upon
               his
               Oath
               ,
               (
               and
               I
               have
               reason
               to
               believe
               he
               did
               so
               ,
               because
               I
               am
               so
               informed
               )
               he
               said
               it
               was
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               Austria
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Privy
               Seal
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               Dr.
               Oats
               said
               he
               was
               a
               tall
               lean
               man
               ,
               and
               it
               seems
               he
               was
               a
               little
               fat
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               any
               man
               would
               shew
               him
               a
               man
               to
               counterfeit
               
                 Don
                 John
              
               of
               Austria
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               shew
               him
               a
               lean
               man
               for
               a
               fat
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Go
               on
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               shall
               now
               put
               your
               Lordships
               in
               mind
               that
               he
               swore
               ,
               but
               my
               Memory
               is
               bad
               ,
               and
               my
               Eyes
               much
               worse
               ,
               that
               he
               saw
               me
               receive
               a
               Commission
               ,
               and
               it
               seems
               he
               saw
               what
               it
               was
               too
               :
               Now
               it
               is
               strange
               ,
               that
               amongst
               so
               many
               Commissions
               that
               were
               given
               ,
               none
               should
               be
               extant
               ;
               I
               desire
               him
               to
               shew
               the
               Commission
               he
               saw
               me
               receive
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Would
               your
               Lordship
               have
               him
               shew
               the
               Commissions
               which
               he
               saw
               you
               receive
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               believe
               he
               can
               shew
               my
               Commission
               ;
               for
               I
               am
               sure
               there
               was
               none
               ;
               I
               desire
               him
               to
               shew
               any
               one
               of
               my
               Letters
               he
               talks
               of
               .
               He
               says
               ,
               he
               came
               over
               ,
               feigning
               to
               be
               a
               Papist
               ,
               when
               he
               was
               not
               ,
               and
               that
               they
               shewed
               him
               presently
               all
               my
               Letters
               ,
               and
               now
               he
               is
               come
               to
               discover
               the
               Plot
               ;
               I
               ask
               him
               ,
               did
               he
               keep
               any
               one
               of
               my
               Letters
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               any
               of
               any
               Lords
               Letters
               by
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               could
               not
               keep
               any
               Letters
               sent
               to
               the
               Fathers
               ,
               I
               had
               a
               fight
               of
               them
               ,
               but
               none
               of
               them
               to
               my
               particular
               use
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Does
               he
               know
               my
               Hand
               ?
               did
               he
               ever
               see
               it
               in
               his
               life
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               do
               know
               his
               Hand
               ,
               I
               believe
               I
               have
               a
               Letter
               of
               my
               Lords
               by
               me
               ,
               but
               not
               about
               me
               ,
               't
               is
               of
               no
               Concern
               ;
               I
               'm
               sure
               I
               have
               one
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Arundel's
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               he
               says
               he
               hath
               a
               Letter
               of
               mine
               ;
               let
               him
               shew
               one
               of
               my
               Letters
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               He
               writes
               a
               mixt
               Hand
               ,
               I
               think
               't
               is
               but
               an
               indifferent
               one
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               So
               many
               Comissions
               ,
               and
               so
               many
               Letters
               ,
               as
               are
               spoken
               of
               ,
               and
               not
               one
               to
               be
               found
               or
               produced
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Can
               you
               send
               for
               the
               Letter
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               certain
               of
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               did
               you
               see
               my
               Lord
               write
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               At
               
               Fenwick's
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               when
               I
               carried
               the
               Letter
               to
               the
               Post
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               How
               often
               hath
               he
               seen
               me
               at
               
               Fenwick's
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               not
               above
               twice
               ,
               if
               twice
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               I
               did
               not
               see
               him
               there
               ,
               but
               I
               can
               say
               I
               don't
               know
               the
               place
               ,
               nor
               that
               ever
               I
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               will
               his
               Lordship
               say
               I
               never
               saw
               him
               at
               Dr.
               Perrots
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Who
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Where
               did
               he
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               In
               Dukes-street
               ,
               going
               into
               Lincolns-Inn-Fields
               ;
               he
               is
               the
               Arch-Priest
               of
               the
               Seculars
               ,
               that
               is
               ,
               the
               Principal
               of
               the
               Secular
               Clergy
               ;
               and
               he
               hath
               the
               care
               of
               the
               English
               Colledge
               for
               the
               sending
               of
               Scholars
               to
               the
               Colledge
               .
               Mr.
               Fisher
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               Dr.
               Perrot
               were
               together
               discoursing
               about
               sending
               his
               Son
               thither
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Fisher
               would
               have
               one
               sent
               with
               him
               that
               was
               Dr.
               
               Perrot's
               Man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               profess
               before
               God
               ,
               I
               was
               never
               at
               Dr.
               
               Perrot's
               in
               my
               whole
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               not
               you
               send
               your
               Son
               abroad
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               not
               I.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Had
               he
               a
               Servant
               at
               Dr.
               
               Perrot's
               to
               attend
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               not
               that
               I
               know
               of
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               he
               had
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               tell
               you
               positively
               ,
               as
               I
               am
               a
               Christian
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               send
               my
               Son
               to
               Lisbon
               ,
               he
               went
               against
               my
               Will.
               I
               told
               him
               I
               had
               an
               aversion
               to
               it
               ,
               but
               said
               I
               will
               not
               lay
               my
               Commands
               on
               you
               not
               to
               go
               ,
               but
               he
               would
               go
               ,
               I
               could
               not
               help
               it
               ;
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               Do
               you
               mean
               to
               go
               into
               the
               Colledge
               ?
               he
               would
               not
               tell
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               does
               not
               your
               Lordship
               know
               Dr.
               Perrot
               ?
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Were
               you
               never
               with
               him
               at
               his
               House
               in
               Duke-street
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               never
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               nor
               saw
               that
               Fisher
               he
               speaks
               of
               ,
               ever
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               't
               is
               against
               the
               Rules
               of
               that
               House
               ,
               that
               any
               be
               admitted
               of
               that
               House
               (
               if
               their
               Parents
               be
               Catholicks
               )
               without
               consent
               of
               their
               Parents
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               he
               be
               admitted
               there
               ,
               I
               know
               it
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               He
               lives
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               But
               I
               protest
               before
               God
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               asked
               him
               that
               Question
               ,
               Will
               you
               go
               to
               the
               Colledge
               ?
               No
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               I
               will
               go
               to
               lie
               at
               the
               Bishops
               House
               ;
               but
               as
               for
               Dr.
               Perrot
               ,
               I
               never
               was
               at
               his
               Lodgings
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               and
               I
               never
               knew
               where
               he
               lay
               ;
               he
               hath
               been
               with
               me
               sometimes
               ,
               but
               I
               knew
               not
               that
               he
               was
               a
               Doctor
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               not
               be
               ran
               down
               by
               these
               Fellows
               ,
               who
               do
               not
               speak
               a
               word
               true
               ,
               nor
               one
               tittle
               .
               My
               Lords
               I
               have
               Witnesses
               in
               whose
               House
               Fenwick
               lay
               .
               Call
               them
               and
               ask
               them
               if
               ever
               they
               knew
               me
               in
               their
               lives
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               kind
               of
               man
               was
               he
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               is
               an
               ancient
               man
               he
               wears
               his
               own
               Hair.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               he
               a
               tall
               man
               ,
               or
               a
               low
               man
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               A
               lusty
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               never
               was
               at
               his
               house
               since
               I
               was
               born
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               'll
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               a
               Circumstance
               ,
               That
               Summer
               
                 Don
                 Francisco
                 de
                 Melos
              
               ,
               the
               Ambassador
               here
               was
               sick
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               he
               died
               of
               the
               Sickness
               ,
               Dr.
               Perrot
               was
               his
               Father
               Confessor
               ;
               I
               was
               waiting
               for
               Dr.
               Perrot
               some
               time
               ,
               for
               he
               promised
               to
               meet
               me
               at
               his
               Lodgings
               ,
               and
               this
               Gentleman
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar
               did
               come
               in
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staffo
               rd
               .
            
             
               Where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               Into
               Dr.
               
               Perrot's
               Lodging
               .
               Dr.
               Perrot
               had
               a
               Kinsman
               there
               that
               waited
               on
               him
               ;
               and
               when
               my
               Lord
               came
               in
               ,
               he
               was
               in
               haste
               to
               speak
               with
               Dr.
               Perrot
               ,
               and
               he
               offered
               me
               half
               a
               Crown
               to
               fetch
               Dr.
               Perrot
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               I
               made
               him
               this
               Reply
               ,
               I
               was
               no
               Porter
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               ever
               I
               saw
               this
               man
               in
               my
               life
               since
               I
               was
               born
               ,
               or
               heard
               of
               
               his
               Name
               till
               the
               Plot
               ,
               then
               I
               will
               confess
               my self
               guilty
               of
               all
               .
               Indeed
               ,
               when
               first
               I
               heard
               of
               the
               Plot
               (
               they
               said
               )
               there
               was
               one
               Mr.
               Oats
               discovered
               it
               ,
               but
               I
               did
               not
               know
               any
               such
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               went
               by
               another
               Name
               ,
               and
               went
               in
               another
               Habit
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               though
               his
               memory
               be
               bad
               ,
               yet
               it
               can't
               be
               so
               bad
               ,
               but
               that
               he
               must
               remember
               something
               of
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               don't
               remember
               you
               ,
               I
               never
               saw
               your
               face
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               would
               have
               given
               him
               half
               a
               Crown
               to
               have
               fetch'd
               Dr.
               Perrot
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               seems
               then
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               I
               took
               him
               for
               a
               poor
               Fellow
               ,
               that
               I
               should
               offer
               him
               a
               shilling
               or
               two
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               like
               I
               was
               ,
               but
               I
               refused
               your
               half
               Crown
               ,
               and
               told
               you
               I
               was
               no
               Porter
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               give
               you
               Evidence
               that
               he
               was
               a
               poor
               Fellow
               ,
               since
               he
               gives
               me
               occasion
               to
               prove
               it
               ,
               nay
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               so
               poor
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               brought
               down
               to
               accept
               of
               6
               d.
               I
               will
               prove
               it
               by
               the
               party
               that
               gave
               it
               ,
               now
               he
               puts
               me
               upon
               it
               :
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               Doctor
               Oats
               says
               he
               saw
               some
               of
               my
               Letters
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               what
               was
               in
               them
               ;
               Did
               he
               take
               any
               Notes
               ?
               What
               was
               in
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               when
               you
               had
               a
               sight
               of
               these
               Letters
               at
               St.
               Omers
               ,
               take
               any
               Notes
               out
               of
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
            
             
               What
               Notes
               I
               did
               take
               ,
               if
               I
               did
               take
               any
               ,
               I
               have
               not
               now
               in
               being
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               that
               I
               did
               take
               any
               .
               Besides
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               could
               keep
               no
               Papers
               by
               us
               ,
               but
               what
               we
               communicated
               to
               our
               Superiours
               ,
               and
               therefore
               it
               was
               still
               their
               care
               to
               look
               after
               their
               Papers
               themselves
               ;
               and
               in
               that
               Circumstance
               of
               time
               ,
               if
               they
               had
               known
               I
               had
               taken
               Notes
               out
               of
               their
               Papers
               ,
               it
               would
               have
               been
               prejudicial
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               indangered
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               infer
               this
               one
               thing
               further
               ,
               upon
               what
               this
               Doctor
               Oats
               tells
               you
               ,
               He
               did
               seemingly
               profess
               himself
               of
               the
               Catholick
               Religion
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               stand
               upon
               it
               ,
               that
               hereupon
               he
               is
               no
               competent
               Witness
               in
               that
               which
               he
               offers
               against
               me
               :
               For
               he
               being
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               (
               for
               I
               think
               he
               professes
               himself
               so
               ,
               and
               wears
               that
               Habit
               )
               I
               say
               ,
               any
               man
               ,
               let
               him
               be
               who
               he
               will
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               Church
               of
               England
               man
               or
               other
               ,
               that
               shall
               pretend
               himself
               to
               be
               a
               Papist
               ,
               for
               what
               end
               soever
               it
               be
               that
               he
               so
               pretends
               ,
               and
               dissembles
               with
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               which
               he
               must
               do
               to
               a
               great
               height
               ,
               in
               receiving
               that
               Sacrament
               ,
               which
               is
               by
               your
               Lordships
               and
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               declared
               to
               be
               gross
               Idolatry
               ,
               is
               not
               easily
               to
               be
               esteemed
               a
               Witness
               .
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               and
               every
               body
               ,
               whether
               such
               a
               Fellow
               ,
               that
               will
               abhor
               his
               Religion
               ,
               let
               him
               do
               it
               for
               any
               ends
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               be
               a
               man
               to
               be
               credited
               ;
               and
               especially
               ingaging
               in
               such
               a
               way
               ,
               to
               such
               an
               height
               ,
               in
               that
               which
               his
               Conscience
               tells
               him
               is
               idolatrous
               ,
               is
               not
               a
               perjured
               Fellow
               ,
               and
               no
               compleat
               Witness
               ?
               No
               Christian
               ,
               but
               a
               Devil
               ,
               and
               a
               Witness
               for
               the
               Devil
               .
               And
               I
               appeal
               to
               the
               
               whole
               Christian
               World
               ,
               if
               a
               Protestant
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               should
               come
               to
               be
               a
               Servant
               to
               a
               Catholick
               and
               pretend
               himself
               a
               Papist
               ,
               and
               were
               not
               so
               ,
               whether
               he
               were
               fit
               to
               be
               countenanced
               ;
               as
               it
               did
               once
               happen
               to
               me
               at
               Brussels
               ,
               fore
               the
               King
               came
               in
               ,
               one
               that
               was
               a
               Protestant
               came
               to
               be
               my
               Footman
               ,
               and
               he
               professed
               himself
               afterwards
               to
               be
               a
               Catholick
               ;
               and
               when
               I
               found
               he
               was
               not
               so
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               what
               a
               Villain
               he
               was
               ,
               and
               he
               ought
               to
               be
               punished
               severely
               .
               I
               detest
               such
               dissembling
               with
               God
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               by
               the
               Laws
               of
               God
               and
               Man
               ,
               and
               the
               Holy
               Scriptures
               ,
               such
               a
               perjured
               man
               is
               no
               Witness
               .
               I
               am
               sorry
               I
               have
               troubled
               your
               Lordships
               so
               long
               .
               But
               now
               if
               you
               please
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               give
               you
               my
               Reasons
               why
               I
               called
               him
               now
               :
               when
               I
               did
               remember
               how
               he
               had
               dissembled
               with
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               as
               I
               said
               before
               ,
               I
               did
               consider
               with
               my self
               ,
               sure
               this
               Dr.
               Oats
               must
               have
               been
               ,
               ever
               since
               he
               hath
               returned
               ,
               of
               a
               very
               severe
               ,
               strict
               and
               sober
               life
               ;
               for
               a
               man
               that
               hath
               so
               dissembled
               with
               God
               ,
               ought
               to
               shew
               himself
               of
               an
               exemplary
               ,
               peaceful
               ,
               pious
               ,
               civil
               life
               ,
               to
               testifie
               the
               truth
               and
               reality
               of
               his
               Repentance
               .
               But
               last
               night
               when
               I
               came
               home
               ,
               and
               was
               siting
               by
               the
               fire
               side
               extreamly
               weary
               ,
               my
               Daughter
               here
               comes
               in
               ,
               and
               asks
               me
               if
               I
               had
               heard
               what
               had
               passed
               between
               Dr.
               Oats
               and
               the
               Lieutenant
               ;
               how
               he
               called
               the
               Lieutenant
               Rascal
               and
               Goaler
               :
               sure
               then
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               to
               my self
               ,
               this
               is
               not
               the
               quiet
               ,
               civil
               ,
               sober
               man
               ,
               that
               such
               a
               one
               that
               hath
               lived
               as
               he
               hath
               done
               ,
               ought
               to
               be
               .
               And
               this
               is
               the
               reason
               I
               speak
               of
               it
               ,
               that
               he
               should
               call
               him
               vile
               Names
               ,
               Goaler
               and
               Rascal
               ;
               it
               did
               not
               become
               a
               man
               of
               his
               Coat
               to
               do
               it
               :
               whether
               it
               was
               so
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               ,
               but
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               ,
               I
               suppose
               ,
               will
               satisfie
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               did
               Oats
               say
               to
               you
               ,
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Lieuten
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               I
               was
               desiring
               Mr.
               Oats
               that
               he
               would
               keep
               the
               people
               down
               ,
               because
               there
               was
               a
               great
               croud
               ;
               and
               seeing
               a
               great
               many
               people
               come
               in
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               they
               were
               Witnesses
               that
               were
               to
               come
               in
               :
               said
               
                 I
                 ,
                 I
              
               believe
               half
               of
               these
               are
               not
               Witnesses
               ;
               and
               the
               door
               opening
               so
               often
               ,
               I
               could
               keep
               this
               place
               in
               no
               order
               ;
               so
               I
               desired
               they
               would
               stand
               away
               that
               were
               not
               Witnesses
               :
               why
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               you
               are
               but
               a
               Goaler
               ;
               then
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               if
               it
               were
               not
               for
               his
               Coat
               ,
               and
               I
               were
               out
               of
               this
               place
               ,
               I
               would
               break
               his
               head
               .
               Then
               he
               called
               me
               Raskal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Steward
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               whether
               this
               be
               a
               Witness
               fit
               to
               be
               believed
               against
               any
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               this
               does
               not
               become
               you
               ;
               't
               is
               very
               ill
               manners
               in
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               hath
               the
               Law
               ;
               and
               I
               refer
               my self
               to
               the
               Law
               ,
               if
               I
               have
               done
               him
               any
               wrong
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               It
               did
               not
               become
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               to
               tell
               him
               he
               would
               break
               his
               head
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               .
            
             
               Why
               ?
               if
               any
               man
               out
               of
               the
               Court
               ,
               or
               in
               another
               Habit
               ,
               should
               tell
               me
               I
               was
               a
               Goaler
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               should
               not
               deserve
               to
               be
               the
               Kings
               Lieutenant
               ,
               if
               I
               did
               not
               break
               his
               Head.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Pray
               tell
               the
               Court
               so
               .
               But
               yet
               ,
               under
               favour
               ,
               you
               ought
               not
               to
               threaten
               him
               for
               a
               word
               to
               break
               his
               head
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               say
               this
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               a
               man
               that
               hath
               dissembled
               with
               God
               Almighty
               in
               so
               high
               a
               nature
               ,
               as
               he
               ackowledges
               himself
               to
               have
               done
               ,
               ought
               to
               be
               a
               man
               of
               a
               very
               severe
               life
               afterwards
               ,
               and
               not
               so
               passionate
               and
               cholerick
               ,
               as
               it
               seems
               this
               fellow
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               proceed
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               For
               this
               man
               ,
               truly
               ,
               I
               shall
               say
               no
               more
               ;
               I
               think
               I
               have
               said
               enough
               to
               make
               him
               appear
               a
               person
               not
               fit
               to
               be
               believed
               .
               I
               would
               only
               ask
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               a
               Question
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               ;
               't
               is
               but
               a
               little
               ,
               I
               won't
               hold
               you
               long
               .
               I
               only
               ask
               ,
               and
               if
               he
               deny
               it
               ,
               
               I
               'le
               prove
               it
               ,
               whether
               he
               was
               not
               a
               Prisoner
               at
               Stafford
               for
               Debt
               ,
               when
               he
               made
               the
               first
               Affidavit
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               a
               Prisoner
               for
               Debt
               at
               Stafford
               ,
               when
               you
               made
               your
               first
               Affidavit
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               Serjeants
               hands
               I
               was
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               For
               a
               very
               great
               Debt
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               some
               hundreds
               of
               pounds
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               a
               fellow
               not
               worth
               a
               Groat
               :
               And
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               Dr.
               Oats
               says
               I
               offered
               him
               half
               a
               Crown
               ,
               and
               he
               refused
               it
               .
               I
               call
               
                 Ellen
                 Rigby
              
               to
               prove
               he
               was
               so
               poor
               he
               begg'd
               for
               six
               pence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               save
               my
               Lord
               the
               trouble
               of
               proving
               any
               such
               thing
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               says
               I
               was
               a
               poor
               man
               ,
               and
               had
               not
               six
               pence
               in
               my
               pocket
               ;
               I
               can
               make
               it
               appear
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               ,
               that
               sometime
               since
               I
               came
               in
               upon
               this
               Discovery
               ,
               I
               have
               not
               had
               two
               pence
               in
               my
               pocket
               ,
               and
               sometimes
               I
               have
               not
               had
               six
               pence
               :
               but
               a
               mans
               Pȯverty
               is
               no
               objection
               against
               his
               Honesty
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Where
               is
               
                 Ellen
                 Rigby
              
               to
               prove
               ,
               whether
               she
               did
               not
               give
               him
               six
               pence
               ?
               But
               then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               pray
               ask
               him
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               swear
               at
               a
               former
               Tryal
               ,
               he
               had
               spent
               six
               or
               seven
               hundred
               pounds
               more
               than
               he
               got
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               say
               at
               a
               former
               Tryal
               ,
               you
               were
               five
               or
               six
               hundred
               pound
               out
               of
               purse
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               satisfie
               this
               House
               what
               I
               said
               ;
               what
               folks
               write
               after
               me
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               to
               justifie
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               had
               a
               Friend
               of
               mine
               presented
               me
               with
               100
               
                 l.
                 I
              
               name
               not
               his
               Name
               ;
               but
               if
               that
               be
               questioned
               ,
               he
               is
               a
               Peer
               of
               this
               House
               ,
               and
               will
               justifie
               it
               .
               I
               had
               100
               l.
               for
               my
               Narrative
               .
               I
               had
               100
               l.
               for
               taking
               some
               Jesuits
               ;
               which
               is
               300
               
                 l.
                 I
              
               had
               for
               some
               other
               Copies
               that
               I
               printed
               ,
               a
               matter
               of
               50
               or
               60
               l.
               And
               now
               I
               can
               make
               it
               appear
               ,
               that
               as
               to
               those
               Sums
               which
               I
               received
               in
               gross
               ,
               I
               have
               spent
               them
               all
               ,
               and
               more
               in
               this
               Service
               ,
               for
               I
               have
               none
               of
               the
               money
               now
               by
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               makes
               out
               but
               350
               l.
               and
               he
               swore
               he
               was
               out
               700
               l.
               but
               he
               does
               not
               swear
               one
               true
               tittle
               ,
               nor
               is
               any
               whit
               to
               be
               believed
               .
            
          
           
             
               Dr.
               Oats
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               expect
               I
               should
               prove
               it
               ,
               I
               can
               prove
               it
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Managers
               .
            
             
               Be
               quiet
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               we
               will
               do
               you
               right
               anon
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               for
               the
               present
               that
               I
               have
               any
               thing
               else
               to
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               .
               I
               remember
               these
               Gentlemen
               when
               I
               asked
               them
               if
               they
               had
               any
               more
               Evidence
               to
               give
               in
               ,
               said
               No
               ,
               unless
               I
               should
               give
               them
               some
               occasion
               ;
               and
               now
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               if
               they
               bring
               any
               new
               Evidence
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               have
               time
               to
               answer
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               God
               forbid
               but
               you
               should
               have
               liberty
               to
               answer
               any
               Objection
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               before
               we
               go
               about
               to
               sum
               up
               our
               Evidence
               we
               shall
               have
               occasion
               to
               call
               some
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               that
               will
               be
               to
               fortifie
               what
               our
               Witnesses
               have
               said
               ,
               to
               discover
               what
               kind
               of
               Witnesses
               have
               been
               made
               use
               of
               against
               them
               ,
               and
               to
               falsifie
               what
               my
               Lords
               Witnesses
               have
               said
               in
               some
               particulars
               .
               These
               will
               be
               the
               three
               Heads
               for
               which
               we
               desire
               to
               call
               Witnesses
               .
               And
               because
               (
               my
               Lords
               )
               we
               will
               not
               trouble
               you
               with
               making
               one
               intire
               Narration
               of
               what
               they
               can
               say
               ,
               or
               to
               what
               purpose
               we
               call
               them
               before
               they
               come
               ,
               we
               desire
               the
               favour
               that
               we
               may
               acquaint
               your
               Lordships
               with
               it
               ,
               still
               as
               we
               call
               them
               ;
               for
               that
               we
               think
               will
               be
               the
               way
               more
               clearly
               to
               be
               understood
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               begin
               to
               make
               good
               by
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               some
               things
               said
               by
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               (
               for
               he
               was
               our
               first
               Witness
               ,
               and
               therefore
               in
               order
               of
               time
               we
               will
               first
               begin
               with
               him
               .
               )
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar
               was
               pleased
               to
               object
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               interrupt
               him
               ;
               but
               I
               would
               ask
               whether
               there
               were
               more
               than
               two
               heads
               that
               he
               proceeds
               upon
               to
               fortifie
               their
               own
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               to
               falsifie
               mine
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               we
               may
               comprehend
               all
               under
               those
               two
               heads
               :
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               you
               observe
               ,
               one
               great
               matter
               my
               Lord
               did
               insist
               upon
               yesterday
               ,
               was
               this
               .
               That
               he
               ,
               it
               is
               true
               ,
               hath
               seen
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               (
               though
               by
               the
               way
               I
               must
               say
               this
               ,
               my
               Lord
               at
               the
               first
               did
               not
               seem
               to
               know
               him
               .
               )
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               know
               him
               in
               his
               Peraiwig
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               not
               interrupt
               them
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               for
               they
               must
               have
               the
               same
               liberty
               that
               you
               had
               ,
               to
               go
               on
               without
               interruption
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               must
               have
               the
               same
               freedom
               my
               Lord
               had
               .
               I
               will
               do
               his
               Lordship
               that
               right
               ,
               he
               did
               afterwards
               recollect
               himself
               ,
               and
               say
               ,
               His
               Perriwig
               had
               made
               that
               alteration
               in
               him
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               not
               know
               him
               .
               But
               my
               Lord
               was
               also
               pleased
               to
               say
               yesterday
               ,
               That
               though
               he
               did
               know
               him
               ,
               yet
               he
               looked
               upon
               him
               as
               so
               mean
               and
               inconsiderable
               a
               fellow
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               purposely
               avoid
               all
               discourse
               with
               him
               ;
               and
               that
               sometimes
               when
               he
               was
               a
               dry
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               he
               would
               not
               speak
               to
               him
               to
               help
               him
               ,
               nor
               to
               call
               one
               to
               help
               him
               to
               drink
               .
               My
               Lord
               ,
               was
               pleased
               yesterday
               also
               to
               deny
               that
               ever
               he
               had
               any
               Converse
               with
               him
               but
               only
               that
               one
               time
               ,
               when
               indeed
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               did
               desire
               to
               make
               use
               of
               my
               Lord
               ,
               that
               by
               his
               interposition
               he
               might
               have
               leave
               to
               go
               to
               the
               Foot-Race
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               very
               well
               perceive
               we
               are
               now
               going
               about
               to
               prove
               a
               matter
               mostly
               arising
               within
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Family
               ;
               and
               what
               Witnesses
               we
               shall
               have
               from
               thence
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               may
               easily
               imagine
               will
               not
               be
               very
               favourable
               to
               us
               :
               and
               if
               
               we
               have
               not
               many
               to
               this
               point
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               take
               into
               consideration
               ,
               that
               those
               who
               can
               give
               the
               fullest
               proof
               here
               ,
               must
               be
               those
               of
               the
               Family
               ,
               and
               the
               Religion
               of
               the
               Family
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               one
               or
               two
               that
               I
               believe
               will
               give
               you
               satisfaction
               that
               my
               Lord
               the
               Prisoner
               was
               no
               such
               stranger
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ;
               that
               they
               have
               been
               seen
               together
               ,
               and
               alone
               together
               ;
               and
               that
               is
               the
               first
               thing
               we
               desire
               to
               call
               Witnesses
               to
               .
               Call
               Mr.
               Ansell
               and
               
                 William
                 Hanson
              
               .
            
          
           
             Mr.
             Hanson
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
               Whose
               Servant
               are
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               At
               Wilnal
               in
               
                 Stafford
                 shire
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               ask
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               ,
               if
               you
               be
               satisfied
               where
               he
               lives
               ,
               that
               he
               will
               tell
               you
               whether
               he
               hath
               been
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ,
               and
               seen
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               seen
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               A
               little
               above
               two
               years
               ago
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Be
               pleased
               he
               may
               name
               the
               time
               positively
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               is
               not
               so
               well
               versed
               in
               prosecutions
               of
               this
               nature
               ,
               as
               to
               know
               that
               he
               is
               not
               to
               interrupt
               us
               while
               we
               are
               examining
               our
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               received
               no
               interruption
               ,
               nor
               must
               give
               none
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               this
               Witness
               may
               be
               asked
               ,
               whether
               or
               no
               he
               hath
               seen
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               and
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               any
               time
               together
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               ,
               and
               where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               justly
               tell
               the
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Can
               you
               tell
               the
               place
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Whereabouts
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               In
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Parlour
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               And
               were
               they
               alone
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               fetched
               me
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               And
               was
               no
               body
               in
               the
               Parlour
               when
               Dugdale
               fetched
               you
               to
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               there
               was
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               thinks
               there
               was
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               There
               was
               not
               ,
               to
               my
               best
               remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               will
               you
               be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               him
               the
               Occasion
               why
               Dugdale
               fetched
               him
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               had
               a
               mind
               to
               have
               a
               Boy
               ,
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               was
               the
               occasion
               that
               Dugdale
               did
               come
               to
               fetch
               you
               to
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               in
               the
               Parlour
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               To
               bring
               the
               Boy
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               
                 Yong
                 Hawkins
              
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               fetched
               me
               and
               the
               Boy
               to
               him
               ;
               it
               was
               a
               Boy
               that
               my
               Lord
               would
               have
               to
               live
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Can
               you
               tell
               what
               time
               of
               the
               year
               it
               was
               ?
               whether
               Winter
               or
               Summer
               as
               near
               as
               you
               can
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Aye
               ,
               What
               time
               of
               the
               year
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Indeed
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               cannot
               tell
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               ,
               when
               he
               went
               away
               ,
               he
               left
               them
               together
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               leave
               them
               together
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               To
               my
               best
               remembrance
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               .
               The
               Boy
               and
               I
               went
               away
               together
               ,
               and
               we
               left
               them
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Parlour-door
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Call
               James
               Ansel
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Nay
               ,
               if
               you
               have
               done
               with
               him
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               may
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               tell
               you
               how
               this
               thing
               is
               .
               There
               was
               a
               report
               that
               this
               Hawkins
               was
               a
               very
               good
               running
               Foot-boy
               ;
               and
               this
               was
               spoken
               of
               at
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ▪
               s
               at
               Dinner
               or
               Supper
               ,
               I
               don't
               know
               which
               ,
               nay
               severall
               times
               about
               that
               time
               ;
               it
               was
               when
               my
               Lord
               of
               Danby
               was
               Treasurer
               ,
               and
               his
               Son
               my
               Lord
               Dunblain
               was
               much
               for
               Foot-matches
               ,
               and
               I
               had
               a
               minde
               to
               have
               a
               Foot-boy
               to
               make
               a
               match
               with
               him
               ;
               and
               I
               believe
               Dugdale
               at
               Dinner
               or
               Supper
               did
               say
               that
               he
               was
               a
               good
               running
               Lad
               ,
               and
               I
               might
               desire
               to
               see
               him
               ,
               and
               Dugdale
               did
               bring
               him
               to
               me
               I
               believe
               into
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Parlour
               ;
               but
               there
               was
               at
               least
               six
               or
               seven
               in
               the
               Room
               besides
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               Was
               this
               at
               that
               time
               when
               your
               Lordship
               was
               at
               Tixal
               the
               12
               of
               September
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               that
               Question
               ;
               I
               would
               know
               what
               year
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               He
               says
               it
               was
               above
               two
               years
               ago
               ,
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               profess
               I
               believe
               it
               was
               one
               or
               two
               years
               before
               I
               was
               taxed
               with
               this
               Plot.
               I
               did
               never
               think
               I
               should
               be
               questioned
               about
               this
               ,
               or
               I
               could
               easily
               have
               brought
               witnesses
               that
               were
               by
               at
               that
               time
               .
               It
               is
               true
               he
               did
               come
               to
               me
               ,
               but
               pray
               what
               time
               of
               day
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               morning
               I
               think
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               profess
               to
               God
               ,
               it
               was
               after
               Supper
               ;
               as
               I
               hope
               to
               be
               saved
               ,
               it
               was
               as
               we
               were
               going
               to
               bed
               ,
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               come
               into
               the
               Parlour
               after
               Supper
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               not
               sure
               what
               time
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               his
               Lordship
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               any
               more
               Questions
               ,
               if
               not
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               another
               .
               
                 James
                 Ansell
              
               .
               
                 (
                 who
                 was
                 sworn
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               James
               Ansell
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               At
               Heywood
               in
               Staffordshire
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               live
               with
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               been
               at
               my
               Lords
               House
               at
               Tixal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               But
               you
               are
               not
               of
               the
               Family
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               far
               is
               Heywood
               from
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               A
               Mile
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               seen
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               seen
               a
               man
               they
               called
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
               I
               did
               not
               know
               him
               ,
               but
               as
               they
               told
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               see
               Dugdale
               in
               the
               company
               of
               a
               man
               they
               called
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               Two
               years
               ago
               I
               was
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               and
               there
               I
               saw
               one
               that
               they
               said
               was
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               walking
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               whom
               I
               did
               know
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               Court
               at
               Tiaxl
               ,
               walking
               together
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               they
               alone
               ?
               Was
               there
               no
               body
               else
               in
               company
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               None
               that
               I
               saw
               ;
               there
               might
               be
               more
               company
               ,
               but
               I
               saw
               no
               more
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               how
               long
               ago
               this
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               About
               Summer
               was
               two
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               his
               Lordship
               will
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               now
               we
               have
               done
               ,
               he
               may
               ;
               otherwise
               we
               will
               call
               another
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               recollected
               my self
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               in
               so
               short
               a
               time
               ,
               and
               all
               I
               can
               say
               is
               ,
               some
               of
               my
               Servants
               were
               by
               ,
               I
               suppose
               ;
               and
               I
               do
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               the
               other
               business
               was
               above
               three
               years
               ago
               ;
               so
               the
               fellow
               does
               not
               know
               what
               he
               does
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ask
               him
               how
               long
               he
               saw
               me
               in
               the
               Court
               with
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               long
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               tell
               .
               I
               did
               but
               walk
               through
               the
               Court
               :
               I
               came
               to
               speak
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               with
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               hear
               us
               discourse
               ,
               or
               any
               word
               we
               said
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               you
               please
               ,
               before
               Ansell
               go
               away
               ,
               we
               would
               ask
               him
               a
               Question
               to
               another
               point
               ;
               and
               that
               is
               ,
               For
               what
               reason
               Dugdale
               was
               secured
               ,
               whether
               he
               went
               away
               for
               Debt
               or
               no
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               wherefore
               Dugdale
               was
               secured
               ,
               or
               why
               he
               went
               from
               my
               Lord
               Astons
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               can't
               tell
               why
               he
               went
               away
               ;
               whether
               for
               fear
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               can't
               tell
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               discourse
               was
               between
               you
               and
               Dugdale
               about
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               Where
               ?
               There
               was
               a
               discourse
               at
               Stafford
               when
               he
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               But
               before
               he
               went
               away
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               one
               day
               ,
               and
               told
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               I
               heard
               say
               he
               was
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot
               ;
               for
               I
               told
               him
               I
               was
               amongst
               some
               people
               ,
               and
               they
               say
               you
               are
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot.
               And
               this
               was
               about
               a
               fortnight
               after
               the
               News
               was
               hot
               in
               our
               Country
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               said
               he
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               He
               laughed
               at
               it
               ,
               and
               said
               ,
               God
               blast
               him
               if
               he
               knew
               any
               thing
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               So
               he
               denied
               it
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               at
               that
               time
               did
               he
               say
               he
               knew
               any
               thing
               about
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               and
               why
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               did
               use
               him
               ill
               ?
            
          
           
             Then
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             objected
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             was
             too
             near
             the
             VVitness
             ,
             and
             desired
             he
             might
             go
             down
             ;
             and
             it
             was
             ordered
             accordingly
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVin.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               would
               ask
               this
               man
               what
               does
               he
               know
               of
               
               Dugdale's
               concealing
               himself
               after
               he
               had
               heard
               of
               the
               discourse
               about
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               know
               not
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ;
               he
               was
               fearful
               of
               coming
               in
               company
               :
               what
               his
               discourse
               was
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               now
               if
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               we
               will
               go
               to
               another
               particular
               .
               Yor
               Lordships
               will
               please
               to
               remember
               ,
               that
               yesterday
               there
               were
               two
               Witnesses
               called
               by
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               that
               is
               Sambidge
               and
               
                 Philips
                 ;
                 Sambidge
              
               was
               the
               old
               Gentleman
               that
               was
               deaf
               ,
               and
               a
               little
               passionate
               too
               ,
               because
               he
               was
               once
               summoned
               to
               Litchfield
               Court.
               Mr.
               Philips
               was
               the
               Minister
               of
               Tixal
               .
               And
               both
               these
               did
               testifie
               ,
               That
               whereas
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               had
               sworn
               at
               a
               former
               Tryal
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               give
               notice
               before
               them
               of
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmunbury
                 Godfrey
              
               upon
               Monday
               ,
               which
               (
               as
               I
               take
               it
               )
               was
               the
               14.
               of
               October
               ,
               there
               was
               no
               such
               notice
               given
               in
               their
               presence
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               did
               affirm
               ,
               they
               were
               by
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               gave
               notice
               before
               them
               &
               others
               .
               This
               was
               made
               use
               of
               by
               my
               Lord
               to
               invalidate
               the
               Testimony
               of
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               that
               he
               should
               go
               and
               affirm
               at
               a
               former
               Tryal
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               give
               notice
               of
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               within
               two
               days
               after
               he
               was
               killed
               ,
               before
               any
               one
               knew
               of
               it
               ;
               and
               Dugdale
               must
               needs
               know
               it
               from
               the
               Jesuits
               :
               and
               both
               of
               these
               Gentlemen
               being
               now
               in
               Court
               ,
               do
               deny
               that
               they
               heard
               of
               it
               at
               that
               time
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               prove
               to
               you
               here
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               give
               notice
               of
               it
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               and
               that
               they
               were
               both
               present
               .
               For
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               ,
               it
               is
               not
               so
               strange
               he
               should
               not
               observe
               it
               ,
               he
               was
               very
               deaf
               ,
               and
               he
               could
               hardly
               hear
               yesterday
               ;
               and
               as
               he
               was
               deaf
               ,
               so
               he
               was
               very
               passionate
               .
               As
               for
               Mr.
               Philips
               ,
               I
               cannot
               say
               that
               as
               to
               him
               ,
               but
               perhaps
               he
               
               cannot
               at
               that
               distance
               of
               time
               remember
               ;
               but
               we
               will
               prove
               by
               undeniable
               Witnesses
               ,
               that
               notice
               was
               given
               that
               Munday
               ,
               and
               that
               these
               persons
               were
               by
               when
               it
               was
               given
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               This
               Witness
               we
               use
               to
               another
               purpose
               besides
               this
               ;
               but
               we
               will
               ask
               him
               only
               to
               this
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               the
               Witnesses
               may
               stand
               by
               themselves
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Let
               them
               take
               care
               that
               there
               be
               but
               one
               Witness
               at
               a
               time
               ,
               and
               that
               no
               body
               approach
               them
               while
               they
               are
               giving
               their
               Testimony
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               did
               not
               make
               the
               like
               desire
               as
               to
               my
               Lords
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               In
               troth
               you
               might
               with
               all
               my
               heart
               ,
               if
               you
               would
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               It
               may
               be
               so
               ;
               but
               we
               did
               not
               fear
               them
               so
               much
               .
               Swear
               
                 William
                 Goldsmith
              
               .
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               would
               begin
               with
               
                 James
                 Ansell
              
               .
               
                 (
                 who
                 appeared
                 and
                 stood
                 up
                 again
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               we
               would
               ask
               him
               what
               he
               knows
               of
               a
               discourse
               about
               the
               Justice
               of
               Peace's
               death
               ;
               to
               tell
               the
               time
               ,
               and
               what
               it
               was
               that
               was
               said
               .
               We
               only
               ask
               general
               Questions
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               discourse
               did
               you
               hear
               of
               the
               murder
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ,
               and
               when
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               heard
               it
               at
               Tixal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               When
               did
               you
               hear
               it
               first
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               The
               14.
               of
               October
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               did
               you
               hear
               it
               from
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               From
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               The
               Letter
               was
               dated
               the
               12.
               
               Where
               did
               you
               hear
               of
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               at
               one
               Elds
               House
               ,
               an
               Alehouse
               in
               Tixal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Where
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               At
               an
               Alehouse
               hard
               by
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               was
               by
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               When
               that
               was
               spoken
               ,
               there
               was
               I
               ,
               and
               
                 VVilliam
                 Hanson
              
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Philips
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               Dugdale
               speak
               with
               them
               at
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               was
               with
               them
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               but
               he
               spoke
               with
               me
               at
               the
               Parlor
               ;
               for
               he
               sent
               for
               me
               into
               the
               Parlor
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Then
               at
               the
               same
               time
               he
               spake
               it
               to
               you
               ,
               and
               they
               were
               in
               the
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               came
               from
               them
               to
               me
               into
               the
               Parlor
               ,
               and
               went
               to
               them
               again
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hear
               him
               speak
               to
               the
               day
               of
               the
               Month
               ;
               if
               you
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               ,
               if
               he
               can
               tell
               what
               day
               of
               the
               Week
               it
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               on
               a
               Munday
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               That
               is
               right
               ,
               the
               Letter
               was
               dated
               on
               Saturday
               the
               12.
               of
               October
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               I
               would
               ask
               him
               ,
               whether
               afterwards
               he
               came
               into
               the
               Room
               where
               Mr.
               Philips
               the
               Parson
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Was
               there
               any
               discouse
               after
               you
               came
               in
               ,
               about
               the
               Death
               of
               ●
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               tell
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               you
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               any
               thing
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               Indeed
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               says
               nothing
               concerning
               me
               ;
               therefore
               I
               say
               only
               this
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               ,
               if
               he
               can
               tell
               ,
               what
               time
               of
               day
               it
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Ansell
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               the
               Forenoon
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Then
               call
               
                 Will.
                 Hanson
              
               again
               .
               
                 (
                 who
                 appeared
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               We
               call
               him
               to
               the
               same
               Question
               .
               Do
               you
               declare
               to
               my
               Lords
               what
               you
               know
               of
               Mr.
               
               Dugdale's
               acquainting
               you
               with
               the
               Death
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ,
               and
               when
               it
               was
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               I
               heard
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               say
               at
               Old
               Elds
               house
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               There
               was
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               murdered
               ,
               that
               lived
               at
               Westminster
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               
            
             
               When
               did
               he
               tell
               you
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               The
               day
               that
               I
               went
               to
               run
               the
               Race
               ,
               the
               14.
               of
               October
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Can
               you
               remember
               what
               day
               of
               the
               week
               it
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               Munday
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               it
               the
               Forenoon
               or
               Afternoon
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               The
               Forenoon
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               Company
               was
               in
               the
               house
               when
               he
               told
               you
               of
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               M.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Old
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Philips
               the
               Parson
               of
               Tixall
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Were
               they
               in
               the
               House
               at
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               they
               by
               when
               the
               discourse
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Mr
               ,
               Sambidge
               was
               going
               to
               drink
               a
               Bottle
               of
               Ale
               ,
               as
               he
               said
               ,
               at
               my
               Lords
               Bowling
               Green
               ;
               and
               for
               a
               while
               he
               sits
               down
               ,
               and
               presently
               Mr.
               Philips
               comes
               in
               and
               sits
               down
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               came
               out
               of
               the
               Parlour
               into
               the
               Room
               where
               we
               were
               come
               ;
               said
               I
               ,
               What
               News
               ?
               said
               he
               ,
               They
               say
               there
               is
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               murdered
               at
               Westminster
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Was
               Philips
               in
               the
               Room
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               hath
               forgot
               it
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               Philips
               hear
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               He
               might
               have
               heard
               it
               if
               he
               would
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Had
               you
               any
               discourse
               with
               Philips
               about
               this
               since
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hanson
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVinn
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               positive
               both
               as
               to
               the
               day
               of
               the
               month
               ,
               and
               as
               to
               the
               week
               ,
               and
               that
               both
               of
               them
               were
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               ●e
               shall
               prove
               to
               you
               now
               ,
               That
               the
               Post
               which
               comes
               out
               of
               London
               on
               Saturday
               ,
               comes
               to
               this
               place
               on
               Munday
               morning
               ;
               and
               those
               which
               goes
               out
               of
               Tuesday
               ,
               come
               there
               on
               Thursday
               morning
               ;
               and
               the
               Post
               which
               goes
               out
               of
               London
               on
               Thursday
               ,
               comes
               to
               this
               place
               on
               Saturday
               morning
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               He
               says
               the
               Post
               comes
               such
               and
               such
               days
               ,
               I
               own
               it
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               morning
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Then
               I
               go
               on
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               to
               another
               point
               ,
               which
               will
               be
               a
               farther
               Confirmation
               of
               the
               matter
               .
               For
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               prove
               to
               you
               ,
               and
               that
               by
               men
               of
               Quality
               ,
               that
               the
               noise
               of
               the
               Murder
               was
               in
               that
               Countrey
               the
               Wednesday
               and
               Thursday
               following
               the
               Murder
               .
               Your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               observe
               ,
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               was
               killed
               the
               Twelfth
               of
               October
               ;
               he
               was
               found
               the
               Thursday
               following
               ,
               which
               was
               ,
               (
               as
               I
               take
               it
               )
               the
               16.
               or
               17.
               of
               October
               .
               We
               will
               prove
               now
               ,
               that
               the
               noise
               and
               knowledge
               of
               the
               Murder
               was
               in
               the
               Countrey
               about
               Tixal
               ,
               before
               he
               was
               found
               here
               near
               London
               .
               Now
               we
               only
               bring
               this
               as
               a
               Confirmation
               of
               this
               matter
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               revealed
               at
               the
               Alehouse
               ,
               and
               so
               it
               went
               about
               the
               Countrey
               .
               And
               for
               this
               we
               call
               
                 Edward
                 Birch
              
               Esquire
               ,
               and
               
                 John
                 Turton
              
               Esquire
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVinn
               .
            
             
               Before
               we
               examine
               them
               ,
               I
               would
               state
               the
               time
               :
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               was
               missing
               on
               Saturday
               ,
               which
               was
               the
               12.
               of
               October
               ;
               his
               Murder
               was
               not
               discovered
               till
               Thursday
               .
               We
               call
               these
               persons
               to
               a
               double
               purpose
               ;
               the
               one
               to
               fortifie
               what
               our
               Witnesses
               have
               said
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               to
               shew
               ,
               that
               this
               man
               was
               dispatched
               by
               these
               Mens
               Confederates
               ,
               because
               they
               knew
               it
               so
               soon
               ;
               which
               could
               not
               have
               been
               ,
               but
               that
               they
               were
               in
               the
               Conspiracy
               themselves
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Staff.
               
            
             
               I
               desire
               only
               that
               he
               may
               say
               whether
               he
               means
               me
               among
               the
               rest
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               will
               do
               you
               no
               wrong
               ,
               I
               speak
               of
               those
               at
               Tixal
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             Mr.
             Birch
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               did
               you
               hear
               of
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               Mr.
               Birch
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Birch
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               hear
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               till
               the
               Saturday-Post
               ;
               but
               I
               presume
               that
               which
               these
               Gentlemen
               call
               me
               for
               ,
               is
               this
               :
               I
               did
               hear
               before
               Thursday
               ,
               I
               think
               Tuesday
               was
               the
               first
               day
               ,
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               of
               Middlesex
               killed
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               thought
               the
               Papists
               murdered
               him
               ;
               and
               this
               on
               Tuesday
               and
               Wednesday
               was
               all
               over
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               that
               is
               ,
               Tuesday
               after
               his
               death
               :
               for
               I
               'll
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               how
               I
               came
               to
               take
               notice
               of
               it
               ;
               for
               hearing
               such
               a
               report
               in
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               so
               much
               take
               notice
               of
               it
               ,
               but
               being
               at
               the
               Kings
               Bench
               Bar
               ,
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               
                 Green
                 ,
                 Berry
              
               and
               Hill
               ,
               for
               the
               Murder
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ,
               I
               found
               upon
               the
               Evidence
               that
               the
               Body
               was
               not
               found
               till
               the
               Thursday
               after
               he
               was
               killed
               ;
               that
               made
               me
               recollect
               my self
               as
               to
               what
               I
               had
               heard
               in
               the
               Countrey
               :
               and
               as
               I
               stood
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               I
               told
               several
               Gentlemen
               that
               I
               did
               perfectly
               remember
               ,
               before
               Thursday
               it
               was
               
               discoursed
               of
               in
               the
               Countrey
               by
               several
               Gentlemen
               where
               I
               lived
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Call
               
                 John
                 Turton
              
               Esquire
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Some
               of
               my
               Lords
               here
               ,
               I
               perceive
               ,
               desire
               he
               should
               be
               asked
               a
               more
               particular
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               this
               :
               You
               heard
               of
               it
               you
               say
               on
               Tuesday
               ,
               that
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               of
               Middlesex
               was
               killed
               ;
               I
               desire
               to
               know
               who
               you
               heard
               it
               from
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Birch
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can't
               tell
               .
               For
               I
               'll
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               have
               some
               certain
               days
               that
               I
               constantly
               appoint
               to
               be
               at
               home
               in
               ,
               when
               people
               come
               about
               business
               to
               me
               .
               Among
               these
               people
               ,
               several
               came
               that
               asked
               me
               what
               news
               I
               had
               from
               London
               .
               I
               told
               them
               ,
               I
               had
               received
               a
               Letter
               or
               two
               by
               the
               Post
               ,
               and
               I
               shewed
               them
               those
               Letters
               ,
               there
               was
               little
               or
               nothing
               in
               them
               .
               Thereupon
               they
               asked
               me
               if
               I
               did
               not
               hear
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Middlesex
               that
               was
               killed
               ,
               No
               ,
               said
               I.
               How
               come
               you
               to
               hear
               it
               ,
               says
               one
               ,
               I
               come
               through
               Cank
               ,
               (
               which
               is
               within
               half
               a
               mile
               of
               mine
               own
               house
               )
               and
               as
               I
               came
               through
               ,
               there
               came
               a
               person
               from
               Heywood
               ,
               that
               said
               't
               is
               all
               the
               news
               about
               Tixal
               and
               Heywood
               ,
               and
               that
               part
               of
               the
               Countrey
               .
               And
               this
               was
               said
               to
               me
               in
               my
               own
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               How
               far
               is
               Heywood
               from
               Tixal
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Birch
               .
            
             
               About
               a
               mile
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Now
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               ask
               Mr.
               Turton
               to
               the
               fame
               business
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Mr.
             Turton
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Turton
               ,
               pray
               hear
               :
               When
               did
               you
               first
               hear
               in
               Staffordshire
               of
               the
               death
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               of
               Middlesex
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turton
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               are
               two
               Races
               in
               that
               Countrey
               ,
               at
               a
               place
               near
               Lichfield
               ,
               and
               they
               are
               about
               the
               middle
               of
               October
               ;
               the
               one
               that
               year
               was
               the
               15.
               the
               other
               the
               18.
               the
               one
               the
               Tuesday
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               the
               Friday
               .
               I
               was
               at
               both
               of
               them
               ;
               and
               one
               of
               the
               days
               ,
               which
               I
               cannot
               be
               positive
               in
               ,
               there
               was
               one
               Mr.
               Whitehall
               ,
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               in
               Staffordshire
               ,
               called
               me
               from
               the
               company
               ,
               and
               desired
               to
               speak
               with
               me
               by
               my self
               .
               Said
               he
               ,
               Do
               you
               hear
               any
               news
               ?
               No
               ,
               said
               I.
               Do
               you
               hear
               nothing
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               of
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               that
               is
               murdered
               ?
               (
               I
               then
               had
               not
               heard
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfreys
              
               being
               missing
               .
               )
               No
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               don't
               you
               hear
               he
               is
               murdered
               ?
               Do
               you
               know
               him
               ?
               Yes
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               how
               do
               you
               hear
               it
               ?
               says
               he
               ,
               't
               is
               a
               report
               about
               us
               ;
               but
               I
               did
               not
               then
               believe
               it
               ;
               but
               the
               next
               Post-day
               ,
               which
               was
               Munday
               ,
               I
               did
               hear
               it
               ;
               it
               was
               either
               Tuesday
               or
               Friday
               ,
               one
               of
               those
               days
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               it
               were
               either
               one
               or
               'tother
               ,
               't
               is
               as
               strange
               ,
               and
               the
               Evidence
               as
               strong
               ;
               for
               his
               Body
               was
               not
               found
               till
               Thursday
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVin.
               
            
             
               And
               will
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               observe
               ,
               that
               by
               that
               time
               the
               report
               had
               got
               the
               name
               of
               Godfrey
               too
               ,
               when
               at
               that
               same
               time
               we
               in
               London
               did
               not
               know
               what
               was
               become
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Turton
               .
            
             
               He
               asked
               me
               if
               I
               knew
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               :
               said
               he
               ,
               I
               hear
               he
               was
               an
               active
               Justice
               of
               the
               Peace
               against
               the
               Papists
               ;
               and
               he
               made
               this
               inference
               ,
               
               We
               had
               need
               have
               a
               care
               what
               we
               do
               ,
               for
               we
               shall
               be
               all
               sacrificed
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               will
               your
               Lordships
               be
               pleased
               to
               observe
               ,
               that
               yesterday
               there
               was
               some
               Witnesses
               called
               to
               disparage
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
               And
               the
               first
               man
               as
               I
               can
               remember
               ,
               was
               a
               very
               substantial
               Gentleman
               ,
               called
               Mr.
               Robinson
               ;
               I
               think
               he
               was
               not
               able
               to
               give
               an
               account
               of
               his
               Employment
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               a
               Gentleman
               that
               lived
               upon
               his
               Money
               ;
               I
               remember
               those
               were
               his
               words
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               call
               (
               without
               telling
               you
               what
               they
               will
               say
               )
               some
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               the
               Condition
               of
               this
               Gentleman
               ,
               what
               Reputation
               he
               is
               of
               ,
               and
               what
               is
               his
               Conversation
               .
               And
               we
               first
               call
               my
               Lady
               Gerard.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               pray
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               one
               word
               ,
               —
               but
               't
               is
               no
               great
               matter
               ,
               't
               is
               not
               worth
               the
               speaking
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               can
               you
               say
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               only
               a
               thought
               of
               my
               own
               ,
               not
               worth
               troubling
               your
               Lordships
               with
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             the
             Lady
             Gerard
             appeared
             ,
             and
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Does
               your
               Ladyship
               know
               one
               
                 William
                 Robinson
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lady
               Gerard.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               He
               hath
               several
               Names
               ,
               we
               desire
               he
               may
               be
               called
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Call
               Robinson
               the
               Upholsterer
               .
            
          
           
             (
             He
             was
             called
             ,
             but
             appeared
             not
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               perceive
               we
               mistake
               one
               Lady
               for
               another
               .
               We
               desire
               Mr.
               Booth
               ,
               a
               Member
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               may
               be
               Sworn
               .
            
          
           
             (
             VVhich
             was
             done
             in
             his
             place
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               send
               for
               Robinson
               your
               Witness
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               believe
               he
               is
               here
               ;
               but
               if
               he
               be
               not
               ,
               one
               that
               belongs
               to
               me
               I
               have
               sent
               to
               see
               for
               him
               ;
               whether
               he
               be
               a
               good
               or
               a
               bad
               Witness
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               know
               personally
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Booth
               knows
               him
               very
               well
               ,
               he
               saw
               him
               yesterday
               ,
               and
               so
               we
               may
               venture
               to
               ask
               him
               the
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               see
               Robinson
               the
               Witness
               yesterday
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Booth
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Booth
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               know
               him
               very
               well
               ,
               though
               I
               have
               not
               seen
               him
               often
               :
               for
               indeed
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               behaved
               himself
               so
               the
               first
               time
               that
               I
               saw
               him
               ,
               that
               I
               believe
               I
               shall
               never
               forget
               him
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               better
               acquainted
               with
               his
               Character
               than
               his
               Person
               ,
               though
               I
               know
               the
               man
               very
               well
               ;
               and
               truly
               the
               first
               time
               that
               ever
               I
               was
               in
               his
               company
               ,
               he
               gave
               me
               no
               incouragement
               ever
               to
               desire
               it
               again
               ;
               for
               if
               you
               please
               ,
               I
               'le
               tell
               you
               how
               I
               came
               to
               know
               him
               .
               He
               told
               your
               Lordships
               that
               he
               came
               into
               Cheshire
               at
               a
               Cocking
               ;
               it
               was
               at
               that
               time
               that
               I
               saw
               him
               ,
               for
               upon
               the
               Sunday
               after
               the
               Cocking
               ,
               I
               was
               invited
               to
               a
               Neighbours
               ,
               about
               two
               miles
               from
               home
               .
               We
               were
               set
               down
               to
               Dinner
               ,
               and
               we
               had
               not
               sat
               
               long
               ;
               but
               this
               man
               comes
               into
               the
               Room
               where
               we
               were
               ;
               there
               was
               an
               empty
               place
               at
               the
               lower
               end
               of
               the
               Table
               ,
               and
               he
               sits
               him
               down
               ,
               and
               began
               a
               discourse
               to
               ridicule
               the
               Lords
               day
               ,
               in
               such
               a
               manner
               as
               I
               never
               heard
               the
               like
               .
               And
               the
               rest
               of
               his
               discourse
               was
               full
               of
               a
               great
               deal
               of
               Contempt
               of
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               and
               all
               that
               was
               sacred
               .
               All
               his
               discourse
               at
               Dinner
               was
               very
               prophane
               .
               It
               was
               not
               in
               mine
               own
               House
               ;
               and
               because
               it
               was
               not
               taken
               notice
               of
               by
               the
               Master
               of
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               he
               coming
               under
               the
               protection
               of
               a
               young
               Gentleman
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               what
               else
               I
               should
               ,
               for
               I
               should
               have
               made
               him
               hold
               his
               tongue
               ,
               or
               have
               used
               it
               to
               better
               purpose
               .
               The
               whole
               of
               his
               discourse
               was
               so
               Atheistical
               and
               prophane
               ,
               that
               I
               never
               heard
               the
               like
               in
               my
               life
               .
               When
               dinner
               was
               done
               ,
               he
               used
               a
               great
               many
               inticements
               to
               draw
               the
               Company
               into
               play
               ,
               by
               asking
               what
               would
               they
               say
               if
               they
               should
               see
               such
               and
               such
               things
               to
               be
               done
               ;
               and
               at
               length
               he
               pulls
               out
               a
               great
               many
               Dice
               out
               of
               his
               pocket
               ,
               and
               behaves
               himself
               in
               that
               manner
               ,
               as
               people
               do
               that
               would
               draw
               in
               others
               to
               play
               ;
               and
               they
               that
               had
               better
               skill
               in
               it
               than
               I
               ,
               said
               that
               they
               were
               all
               false
               .
               When
               I
               saw
               this
               ,
               I
               desired
               him
               to
               leave
               our
               Room
               ,
               or
               to
               forbear
               ;
               for
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               if
               this
               be
               the
               entertaintment
               of
               the
               day
               ,
               I
               must
               leave
               the
               Company
               :
               then
               they
               commanded
               him
               to
               desist
               .
               This
               is
               all
               that
               I
               do
               know
               of
               my
               own
               knowledge
               .
               But
               I
               shall
               acquaint
               you
               what
               I
               believe
               ,
               for
               I
               have
               heard
               it
               from
               very
               considerable
               persons
               ,
               whom
               I
               dare
               credit
               ;
               for
               the
               man
               run
               much
               in
               my
               mind
               ,
               because
               I
               never
               saw
               so
               ill
               a
               man
               in
               my
               life
               .
               Coming
               home
               ,
               I
               was
               speaking
               to
               some
               of
               my
               Family
               :
               says
               I
               ,
               Yonder
               I
               met
               with
               the
               strangest
               fellow
               that
               I
               ever
               saw
               in
               my
               days
               ,
               he
               is
               fitter
               to
               be
               hanged
               than
               any
               thing
               else
               .
               Oh
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               said
               they
               ,
               there
               is
               such
               a
               fellow
               hath
               cheated
               I
               know
               not
               how
               many
               at
               the
               Town
               where
               the
               Cocking
               was
               .
               The
               next
               day
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               was
               ,
               or
               shortly
               after
               ,
               I
               had
               occasion
               to
               go
               to
               that
               Town
               ;
               and
               many
               people
               came
               and
               complained
               to
               me
               of
               his
               Cheats
               ,
               to
               a
               very
               great
               degree
               .
               They
               asked
               me
               what
               they
               should
               do
               :
               said
               I
               ,
               you
               have
               nothing
               to
               do
               ,
               but
               indite
               him
               for
               a
               Cheat.
               Why
               ,
               said
               they
               ,
               will
               you
               take
               no
               course
               with
               him
               ?
               Said
               I
               ,
               What
               course
               can
               I
               take
               ?
               I
               am
               turned
               out
               of
               the
               Commission
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               else
               I
               know
               enough
               to
               bind
               him
               to
               the
               good
               behaviour
               .
               After
               this
               I
               had
               occasion
               to
               go
               into
               Lancashire
               ,
               and
               there
               I
               found
               he
               was
               better
               known
               than
               trusted
               .
               There
               were
               very
               loud
               Complains
               against
               him
               ,
               and
               some
               would
               have
               given
               Twenty
               pound
               to
               meet
               with
               him
               .
               I
               heard
               afterwards
               ,
               he
               went
               into
               Staffordshire
               ,
               and
               he
               changed
               his
               Name
               where
               ever
               he
               went
               :
               but
               he
               soon
               discovered
               himself
               ,
               and
               all
               thereabouts
               he
               goes
               for
               a
               notorious
               Cheat.
               This
               is
               all
               I
               can
               say
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Be
               pleased
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               one
               word
               :
               I
               assure
               you
               ,
               if
               I
               had
               thought
               this
               man
               had
               been
               such
               a
               fellow
               as
               now
               he
               proves
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               have
               brought
               him
               before
               you
               .
               I
               never
               knew
               what
               he
               was
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               nor
               heard
               of
               his
               Name
               till
               Saturday
               last
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               It
               may
               be
               so
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               But
               your
               Lordship
               must
               take
               notice
               ,
               that
               this
               is
               the
               man
               that
               gave
               the
               most
               important
               Evidence
               ,
               that
               Dugdale
               should
               corrupt
               him
               to
               swear
               against
               you
               for
               money
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Give
               me
               leave
               to
               observe
               upon
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               That
               if
               Dugdale
               knew
               him
               to
               be
               a
               cheating
               fellow
               ,
               he
               might
               think
               him
               the
               liker
               to
               take
               money
               to
               forfwear
               himself
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will
               ▪
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               not
               reply
               now
               ,
               but
               observe
               anon
               ,
               how
               this
               cheating
               fellow
               comes
               to
               swear
               for
               my
               Lord
               at
               this
               time
               .
               But
               we
               desire
               an
               Honourable
               Peer
               of
               this
               House
               may
               give
               some
               account
               of
               him
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               ,
               the
               Noble
               Lord
               the
               Earl
               of
               Maclesfeld
               ;
               I
               think
               he
               may
               be
               known
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Earl
             of
             Maclesfeld
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pardon
               me
               ,
               my
               good
               Lord
               ,
               my
               Lord
               must
               be
               sworn
               .
            
          
           
             
               E.
               of
               Maclesfeld
               .
            
             
               Before
               I
               am
               sworn
               ,
               I
               would
               know
               of
               your
               Lordships
               whether
               I
               should
               be
               sworn
               or
               no
               ;
               for
               your
               Lordship
               shall
               not
               make
               me
               be
               sworn
               ,
               unless
               my
               Lords
               say
               I
               should
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               I
               would
               not
               offer
               it
               ,
               if
               there
               were
               any
               colour
               of
               doubt
               in
               it
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             my
             Lord
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               E.
               of
               Maclesfeld
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               nothing
               to
               say
               against
               this
               man
               but
               what
               he
               said
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               before
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               too
               ;
               for
               I
               did
               take
               this
               man
               when
               he
               had
               run
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               Gerard.
               He
               had
               cheated
               many
               of
               his
               Servants
               ;
               I
               catched
               him
               on
               the
               way
               running
               to
               play
               his
               tricks
               somewhere
               else
               ,
               and
               I
               intercepted
               him
               ;
               but
               though
               I
               was
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               there
               ,
               yet
               because
               it
               was
               in
               a
               manner
               my
               own
               case
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               commit
               him
               ,
               till
               I
               had
               carried
               him
               before
               another
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               .
               So
               the
               man
               comes
               up
               to
               me
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               My
               Lord
               ,
               have
               you
               a
               mind
               to
               have
               your
               Son-in-law
               bubbled
               ?
               I
               have
               been
               only
               teaching
               him
               how
               to
               avoid
               being
               cheated
               :
               I
               acknowledge
               my self
               to
               be
               a
               Cheat
               ,
               and
               I
               would
               teach
               him
               to
               avoid
               them
               .
               I
               am
               going
               now
               into
               Staffordshire
               ,
               and
               that
               was
               all
               I
               intended
               to
               his
               Lordship
               .
               I
               am
               a
               Rogue
               I
               confess
               it
               .
               And
               upon
               this
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               comes
               in
               ,
               and
               while
               they
               were
               examining
               of
               him
               ,
               we
               bid
               some
               that
               were
               by
               to
               search
               him
               ,
               and
               they
               found
               in
               his
               pocket
               false
               Dice
               ;
               and
               truly
               the
               Justice
               nor
               I
               did
               not
               know
               whether
               they
               were
               true
               or
               false
               .
               Says
               he
               ,
               You
               don't
               know
               what
               to
               do
               with
               these
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               .
               This
               is
               all
               I
               can
               say
               ;
               but
               in
               all
               the
               three
               Counties
               of
               
                 Staffordshire
                 ,
                 Cheshire
              
               ,
               and
               Lancashire
               ,
               there
               are
               several
               men
               that
               I
               see
               here
               ,
               that
               know
               his
               Life
               better
               than
               I
               do
               ;
               for
               't
               is
               his
               common
               practice
               :
               and
               I
               believe
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Judges
               must
               know
               him
               ,
               for
               it
               was
               his
               common
               practice
               at
               all
               Assizes
               and
               great
               Meetings
               to
               play
               these
               pranks
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               not
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               any
               further
               as
               to
               Robinson
               :
               if
               he
               were
               here
               ,
               perhaps
               my
               Lady
               would
               know
               him
               ;
               but
               having
               two
               such
               Witnesses
               ,
               I
               think
               we
               need
               not
               trouble
               our selves
               nor
               you
               any
               more
               about
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               done
               with
               my
               Lady
               Gerard
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               and
               we
               beg
               her
               pardon
               for
               this
               trouble
               .
               My
               Lords
               your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               remember
               ,
               there
               was
               one
               Holt
               was
               produced
               as
               a
               Witness
               by
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ;
               and
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               when
               you
               look
               on
               your
               Notes
               ,
               will
               remember
               ,
               he
               testified
               to
               this
               purpose
               ,
               That
               Dugdale
               sent
               an
               Horse
               
               for
               him
               to
               
               Stafford-Town
               ;
               which
               Horse
               brought
               him
               to
               the
               Star-Inne
               ,
               and
               there
               Dugdale
               did
               offer
               him
               Forty
               pounds
               to
               swear
               ,
               That
               one
               Mr.
               Moor
               carried
               away
               Evers
               the
               Jesuit
               ,
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               some
               Witnesses
               to
               this
               Mr.
               Holt
               ;
               you
               will
               find
               him
               to
               be
               something
               akin
               to
               Mr.
               Robinson
               ,
               and
               ,
               as
               we
               suppose
               ,
               of
               nothing
               a
               better
               Reputation
               than
               he
               .
               The
               Witnesses
               will
               give
               you
               an
               account
               of
               his
               pranks
               .
               Call
               Sampson
               Rawlins
               and
               Lander
               .
            
          
           
             Rawlins
             stood
             up
             ,
             and
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVitness
               .
            
             
               Sampson
               Rawlins
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               ask
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               ▪
               to
               ask
               him
               if
               he
               knows
               
                 Samuel
                 Holt
              
               the
               Black-smith
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Holt
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Acquaint
               my
               Lords
               what
               Reputation
               he
               is
               of
               ,
               where
               he
               lives
               ,
               and
               what
               he
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               counted
               to
               be
               a
               very
               lewd
               loose
               fellow
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               hath
               he
               done
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               counted
               a
               drunken
               lewd
               fellow
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Is
               he
               of
               an
               ill
               Reputation
               in
               the
               Countrey
               where
               he
               lives
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               is
               so
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               For
               what
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               said
               in
               the
               Town
               he
               keeps
               another
               mans
               wife
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               
            
             
               Is
               there
               any
               other
               fault
               he
               hath
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               He
               said
               there
               were
               none
               but
               Rogues
               would
               take
               Mr.
               
               Dugdale's
               part
               ;
               whereas
               I
               never
               knew
               any
               harm
               by
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               known
               him
               this
               fourteen
               or
               fifteen
               years
               :
               I
               dealt
               with
               him
               ,
               I
               was
               Taylor
               to
               the
               Family
               ,
               and
               he
               ever
               paid
               me
               very
               honestly
               and
               well
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               heard
               of
               Mr.
               Holt
               any
               other
               ill
               thing
               besides
               what
               you
               speak
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               He
               broke
               open
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Wine-celler
               ,
               and
               stole
               several
               bottles
               of
               Wine
               ,
               wherefore
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               bid
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               send
               him
               to
               the
               Goal
               :
               but
               he
               curryed
               favour
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               so
               kept
               in
               with
               him
               ,
               that
               he
               afterwards
               begged
               for
               him
               of
               my
               Lord
               to
               forgive
               him
               .
               And
               now
               he
               comes
               to
               Evidence
               against
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               that
               was
               his
               sure
               stedfast
               friend
               ,
               and
               saved
               him
               from
               the
               Goal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               would
               ask
               this
               Witness
               a
               Question
               .
               —
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               And
               because
               I
               took
               Mr.
               
               Dugdale's
               part
               ,
               saying
               ,
               he
               was
               an
               honest
               man
               (
               and
               he
               was
               so
               to
               me
               and
               all
               others
               ,
               as
               far
               as
               ever
               I
               heard
               )
               he
               met
               me
               and
               would
               have
               murdered
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               was
               this
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               Since
               last
               Term
               ,
               when
               I
               was
               up
               here
               .
               And
               likewise
               Sawyer
               took
               a
               pot
               ,
               and
               would
               have
               dong'd
               my
               brains
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               this
               man
               was
               summoned
               as
               a
               Witness
               ,
               to
               attend
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Tryal
               .
               What
               occasion
               brought
               you
               to
               London
               at
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               subpoena'd
               up
               .
               And
               when
               I
               came
               home
               to
               my
               Wife
               and
               Children
               ,
               they
               grosly
               abused
               me
               ,
               and
               said
               I
               was
               a
               Rogue
               ,
               because
               I
               came
               up
               upon
               His
               Majesties
               Service
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               ask
               him
               whether
               Holt
               was
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Servant
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               Holt
               a
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               a
               Smith
               hard
               by
               his
               Gate
               ,
               and
               he
               worked
               to
               the
               Family
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               subpoena'd
               up
               to
               the
               Tryal
               of
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               And
               it
               was
               for
               coming
               to
               that
               Tryal
               he
               offered
               to
               murder
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Rawlins
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               have
               several
               Witnesses
               of
               it
               .
               And
               by
               the
               blow
               that
               
                 Thomas
                 Sawyer
              
               gave
               me
               ,
               for
               a
               good
               while
               I
               could
               not
               lay
               my
               head
               on
               the
               Pillow
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Call
               
                 Thomas
                 Launder
              
               ,
               (
               but
               he
               did
               not
               appear
               ,
               being
               gone
               away
               sick
               .
               )
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Because
               we
               would
               not
               lose
               your
               Lordships
               time
               ,
               seeing
               the
               man
               we
               call
               for
               ,
               is
               gone
               away
               sick
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               a
               Witness
               as
               to
               another
               of
               my
               Lords
               Witnesses
               ,
               
                 John
                 Morral
              
               .
               Call
               
                 Thomas
                 Thorne
              
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               that
               other
               man
               come
               by
               and
               by
               ,
               we
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               give
               us
               leave
               to
               ask
               him
               a
               Question
               ,
               to
               the
               point
               which
               we
               are
               now
               gone
               over
               .
               But
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               produce
               one
               
                 John
                 Morral
              
               a
               Barber
               that
               lived
               at
               Ridgley
               ,
               who
               said
               ,
               that
               money
               was
               offered
               him
               to
               swear
               against
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Howard
               ,
               and
               others
               .
               We
               call
               this
               Witness
               to
               give
               your
               Lordships
               an
               account
               what
               this
               Morral
               is
               ,
               and
               how
               he
               hath
               behaved
               himself
               in
               this
               business
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               say
               about
               
                 John
                 Morral
              
               ?
               Do
               you
               know
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Thorne
               .
            
             
               Yes
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               know
               of
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Thorne
               .
            
             
               I
               know
               he
               is
               a
               man
               that
               use
               to
               come
               often
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               to
               Tixal
               ,
               to
               trim
               him
               ,
               he
               is
               a
               poor
               fellow
               that
               walks
               up
               and
               down
               the
               Country
               ,
               and
               hath
               little
               or
               nothing
               to
               live
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Is
               he
               poor
               and
               needy
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Thorne
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               hath
               been
               sued
               for
               money
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               been
               contributory
               to
               keep
               him
               out
               of
               Prison
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               ask
               you
               in
               general
               ,
               is
               he
               of
               a
               good
               or
               bad
               Reputation
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Thorne
               .
            
             
               Indifferent
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               modestly
               said
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               have
               heard
               what
               kind
               of
               Witnesses
               have
               been
               brought
               against
               us
               .
               For
               two
               of
               them
               ,
               you
               have
               had
               particular
               matters
               ;
               for
               a
               third
               ,
               our
               Witness
               speaks
               modestly
               ,
               that
               he
               is
               a
               man
               of
               indifferent
               Reputation
               .
               But
               now
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               must
               prove
               what
               endeavours
               have
               been
               used
               to
               get
               other
               Witnesses
               against
               our
               Witnesses
               ;
               and
               for
               that
               .
               I
               desire
               to
               call
               one
               
                 Simon
                 VVright
              
               ,
               to
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               what
               hath
               been
               offered
               him
               to
               swear
               against
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               by
               whom
               .
            
          
           
             (
             VVright
             stood
             up
             and
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               this
               Witness
               would
               give
               your
               Lordships
               some
               account
               ,
               what
               endeavours
               have
               been
               used
               by
               offers
               of
               money
               ,
               or
               otherwise
               ,
               to
               make
               him
               swear
               against
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               by
               whom
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Hath
               any
               body
               endeavoured
               to
               perswade
               you
               to
               swear
               against
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Tell
               your
               whole
               story
               ,
               who
               it
               was
               ,
               and
               what
               was
               offered
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               The
               first
               time
               I
               was
               employed
               was
               presently
               after
               the
               Murder
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               ;
               and
               it
               was
               by
               one
               Mr.
               Plessington
               ,
               that
               was
               in
               custody
               about
               that
               matter
               .
               And
               he
               sent
               me
               on
               Sunday
               morning
               ,
               to
               the
               Marquess
               of
               VVinchesters
               ,
               to
               desire
               him
               ,
               to
               consider
               what
               a
               charge
               he
               lay
               at
               .
               And
               my
               Lord
               did
               send
               him
               word
               ,
               he
               could
               not
               expect
               to
               be
               discharged
               so
               soon
               .
               The
               Tuesday
               after
               he
               was
               discharged
               .
               And
               afterwards
               coming
               unto
               me
               ,
               I
               told
               him
               ,
               I
               was
               glad
               he
               had
               so
               good
               friends
               to
               get
               out
               so
               soon
               .
               He
               told
               me
               ,
               were
               I
               in
               the
               same
               condition
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               as
               good
               or
               better
               .
               Whereupon
               Mr.
               Plessington
               and
               I
               were
               as
               good
               friends
               as
               any
               about
               the
               Town
               .
               I
               was
               his
               Barber
               ,
               and
               Barber
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               we
               were
               all
               great
               cronies
               .
               And
               Plessington
               told
               me
               ,
               if
               I
               could
               find
               a
               way
               to
               take
               off
               his
               Evidence
               ,
               or
               destroy
               him
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               seven
               hundred
               pounds
               .
               I
               went
               to
               inquire
               out
               where
               I
               might
               have
               a
               security
               for
               the
               Money
               .
               And
               Mr.
               Reeves
               ,
               an
               Apothecary
               in
               Chancery-lane
               ,
               did
               profer
               me
               his
               Note
               ,
               and
               so
               did
               Mr.
               Dewy
               the
               Scrivener
               .
               But
               I
               did
               not
               ,
               nor
               had
               the
               Money
               .
               And
               several
               times
               ,
               particularly
               at
               the
               Tryal
               of
               Mrs.
               Price
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Tasborough
               ,
               they
               would
               have
               had
               me
               sworn
               quite
               blank
               ,
               That
               he
               would
               have
               hired
               me
               to
               have
               sworn
               against
               them
               .
               And
               afterwards
               they
               would
               have
               had
               me
               own
               I
               was
               forsworn
               ,
               and
               they
               would
               get
               me
               a
               Pardon
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               had
               you
               sworn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               What
               I
               heard
               Mrs.
               Price
               say
               at
               the
               Horse-shoe
               in
               Chancery-lane
               ,
               as
               to
               the
               blasting
               of
               Dugdale
               ,
               as
               may
               be
               seen
               in
               the
               Tryal
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               offered
               you
               that
               Seven
               hundred
               pounds
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               
               Bellasis's
               Steward
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               his
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Wright
               .
            
             
               Plessington
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               he
               says
               he
               was
               to
               swear
               against
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               I
               desire
               he
               would
               explain
               himself
               more
               particularly
               ,
               and
               tell
               who
               it
               was
               that
               offered
               him
               any
               money
               to
               swear
               against
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Plessington
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
               And
               since
               the
               Tryall
               of
               Mrs.
               Price
               ,
               they
               did
               persuade
               me
               to
               write
               a
               Paper
               for
               the
               blasting
               the
               reputation
               of
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               to
               shake
               his
               credit
               by
               it
               .
               And
               that
               they
               carried
               to
               Mr.
               Drayton
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               and
               they
               being
               satisfied
               ,
               would
               have
               me
               write
               again
               to
               those
               Gentlemen
               ,
               and
               they
               framed
               a
               Letter
               for
               me
               to
               write
               .
               And
               thereupon
               Mr.
               Longmore
               (
               I
               know
               the
               Gentleman
               if
               I
               see
               him
               again
               )
               told
               me
               that
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               was
               better
               able
               to
               perform
               than
               Dugdale
               was
               to
               promise
               ;
               and
               if
               I
               would
               stand
               by
               it
               ,
               I
               should
               be
               an
               happy
               man.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               had
               you
               said
               in
               that
               Paper
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               I
               had
               said
               according
               as
               they
               directed
               me
               ,
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               would
               have
               given
               me
               money
               to
               swear
               against
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Gerard.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               swear
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               ,
               but
               I
               was
               to
               have
               done
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               How
               came
               it
               to
               pass
               you
               did
               not
               agree
               with
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               had
               Four
               pounds
               in
               hand
               ,
               and
               that
               I
               had
               by
               reason
               poverty
               came
               upon
               me
               .
               And
               my
               Lord
               
               Bellasis's
               Steward
               came
               and
               lay
               with
               me
               ,
               and
               spent
               Twenty
               shillings
               upon
               me
               ;
               but
               finding
               that
               I
               was
               not
               absolutely
               true
               to
               them
               ,
               nor
               like
               to
               go
               through
               ,
               they
               distrusted
               me
               ;
               and
               I
               borrowed
               an
               Horse
               of
               Captain
               Chetwin
               ,
               and
               got
               down
               into
               the
               Country
               ,
               where
               I
               have
               been
               since
               July
               last
               ,
               till
               I
               was
               fetch'd
               up
               by
               a
               Messenger
               to
               come
               and
               give
               Evidence
               for
               the
               King.
               And
               there
               I
               received
               a
               Letter
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Agent
               ,
               That
               if
               I
               would
               call
               at
               Stafford
               and
               come
               up
               with
               my
               Lords
               Witnesses
               they
               would
               bear
               my
               charges
               up
               to
               London
               .
               I
               have
               the
               Letter
               in
               my
               Pocket
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               it
               please
               you
               ,
               he
               may
               shew
               the
               Letter
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 he
                 did
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Clerke
               .
            
             
               This
               for
               
                 Simon
                 Wright
              
               ,
               a
               Barber
               at
               
                 _____
              
               deliver
               with
               care
               .
               Subscribed
               ,
               Your
               Loving
               Friend
               
                 _____
              
               Abnett
               .
            
             
               
                 
                   
                     Symon
                     Wright
                     ,
                  
                
                 
                   I
                   Have
                   just
                   now
                   received
                   a
                   Letter
                   from
                   the
                   Lord
                   Stafford
                   ,
                   wherein
                   my
                   Lord
                   mentioned
                   Wright
                   to
                   be
                   one
                   of
                   his
                   VVitnesses
                   ,
                   and
                   desired
                   me
                   forthwith
                   ,
                   to
                   give
                   Wright
                   notice
                   ,
                   That
                   if
                   possible
                   ,
                   he
                   should
                   be
                   at
                   London
                   on
                   Saturday
                   night
                   next
                   ,
                   his
                   Tryal
                   being
                   to
                   be
                   on
                   the
                   Tuesday
                   after
                   ;
                   therefore
                   if
                   he
                   pleased
                   to
                   come
                   to
                   him
                   ,
                   he
                   should
                   give
                   him
                   Money
                   to
                   bear
                   his
                   charges
                   up
                   ,
                   and
                   he
                   should
                   come
                   up
                   with
                   my
                   Lords
                   VVitnesses
                   .
                
                 
                   
                     Abnett
                     .
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             (
             This
             is
             the
             substance
             of
             the
             Letter
             as
             it
             was
             taken
             .
             )
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               presume
               your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               take
               notice
               ,
               he
               was
               intended
               a
               Witness
               for
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               supposed
               then
               that
               he
               was
               able
               to
               say
               something
               ,
               but
               he
               was
               not
               produced
               by
               my
               Lord
               yesterday
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               give
               me
               leave
               ,
               as
               to
               this
               Witness
               ,
               I
               desire
               if
               you
               please
               ,
               I
               may
               have
               time
               to
               prove
               something
               against
               this
               man
               till
               to
               morrow
               .
               I
               have
               enough
               against
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               You
               will
               find
               another
               Witness
               ,
               I
               suppose
               ,
               by
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               find
               him
               ,
               I
               have
               him
               already
               ,
               I
               have
               enough
               against
               this
               Fellow
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               You
               shall
               have
               time
               to
               say
               what
               you
               will
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               I
               would
               my
               Lord
               would
               name
               his
               Witness
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               name
               him
               to
               you
               since
               you
               ask
               it
               ,
               't
               is
               Dodd
               ,
               he
               knows
               what
               I
               mean
               well
               enough
               .
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               I
               don't
               know
               him
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               'le
               assure
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               will
               go
               on
               now
               to
               another
               matter
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               pleased
               to
               object
               ,
               That
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               did
               talk
               much
               of
               Letters
               ,
               and
               proceedings
               ,
               but
               was
               able
               to
               shew
               none
               of
               them
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               give
               an
               account
               how
               that
               comes
               about
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               as
               in
               part
               hath
               been
               proved
               already
               ,
               was
               apprehensive
               of
               being
               accused
               for
               the
               Plot
               ;
               nay
               I
               think
               we
               shall
               prove
               ,
               he
               was
               afraid
               he
               had
               been
               in
               the
               Proclamation
               against
               those
               Traytors
               and
               Jesuits
               that
               were
               fled
               ;
               We
               shall
               prove
               ,
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               to
               secure
               himself
               ,
               and
               his
               then
               friends
               (
               for
               he
               was
               not
               then
               come
               over
               to
               make
               any
               discovery
               )
               did
               burn
               a
               great
               many
               Letters
               and
               Papers
               that
               did
               relate
               to
               those
               proceedings
               ,
               and
               did
               not
               leave
               any
               thing
               remaining
               ,
               hoping
               thereby
               to
               prevent
               a
               discovery
               .
               We
               will
               call
               Witnesses
               that
               were
               by
               when
               it
               was
               done
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               that
               will
               be
               some
               answer
               to
               this
               objection
               .
               Call
               
                 Elizabeth
                 Eld
              
               ,
               and
               
                 Anne
                 Eld.
              
               
            
          
           
             Elizabeth
             Eld
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVinn
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               we
               would
               ask
               her
               this
               general
               Question
               ,
               What
               she
               knows
               of
               Mr.
               
               Dugdale's
               burning
               a
               great
               many
               Letters
               and
               Papers
               ,
               at
               what
               place
               ,
               and
               about
               what
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               I
               cannot
               possibly
               say
               to
               the
               time
               ,
               I
               burnt
               some
               Writings
               for
               him
               when
               he
               went
               away
               ,
               he
               desired
               me
               to
               burn
               them
               ,
               he
               did
               not
               tell
               me
               what
               Writings
               they
               were
               .
               He
               said
               ,
               the
               times
               were
               troublesome
               ,
               and
               if
               he
               should
               be
               sick
               upon
               the
               Road
               where
               he
               was
               going
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               have
               all
               his
               Papers
               seen
               ,
               but
               he
               desired
               me
               to
               burn
               them
               .
               And
               I
               took
               and
               burnt
               them
               all
               but
               one
               Book
               ;
               and
               my
               Sister
               asked
               if
               that
               Book
               should
               be
               burnt
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               no
               ,
               there
               was
               nothing
               of
               Treason
               in
               it
               ;
               I
               asked
               him
               if
               there
               were
               any
               thing
               of
               Treason
               in
               the
               others
               ,
               and
               he
               said
               ,
               Do
               you
               think
               there
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               How
               long
               was
               this
               before
               he
               went
               away
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               That
               morning
               when
               he
               went
               away
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               How
               many
               Papers
               were
               there
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               I
               cannot
               say
               how
               many
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               ask
               you
               the
               number
               ,
               but
               the
               quantity
               ,
               was
               there
               a
               bushel
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               I
               cannot
               say
               ,
               they
               were
               roll'd
               up
               ,
               and
               put
               in
               his
               Pockets
               and
               his
               Breeches
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Were
               they
               Parchments
               or
               Papers
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               They
               were
               Papers
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Were
               they
               Letters
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               see
               what
               they
               were
               ,
               but
               they
               were
               wrapt
               up
               together
               ,
               they
               might
               be
               the
               Accompts
               of
               the
               House
               for
               what
               I
               know
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               But
               she
               says
               ,
               as
               I
               take
               it
               ,
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               said
               there
               was
               Treason
               in
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               Did
               I
               think
               there
               was
               ?
               He
               said
               ,
               it
               was
               no
               matter
               for
               burning
               that
               little
               Book
               ,
               there
               was
               no
               Treason
               in
               that
               ,
               and
               when
               I
               asked
               him
               if
               there
               was
               any
               in
               the
               others
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               Do
               you
               think
               there
               was
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Was
               it
               one
               or
               two
               bundles
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               There
               were
               several
               bundles
               ,
               they
               were
               not
               tyed
               up
               ,
               but
               taken
               in
               handfuls
               and
               thrown
               into
               the
               fire
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               If
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               will
               ask
               her
               no
               Question
               ,
               we
               will
               call
               up
               another
               .
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               see
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               take
               a
               glass
               of
               Cyder
               ,
               and
               I
               heard
               him
               say
               ,
               and
               wish
               it
               might
               be
               his
               Damnation
               ,
               and
               he
               might
               sink
               in
               the
               place
               where
               he
               stood
               ,
               if
               he
               knew
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               pray
               what
               Religion
               are
               you
               of
               ?
               I
               don't
               ask
               you
               to
               disparage
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               A
               Roman
               Catholick
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               was
               it
               that
               he
               said
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Elizabeth
               Eld.
               
            
             
               When
               he
               was
               in
               Staffordshire
               .
            
          
           
             
               Anne
               Eld
            
             was
             then
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Tell
               my
               Lords
               what
               you
               know
               of
               any
               Papers
               that
               were
               burnt
               by
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               or
               by
               his
               direction
               ,
               and
               at
               what
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Anne
               Eld.
               
            
             
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               came
               to
               my
               Fathers
               house
               over
               night
               ,
               and
               the
               next
               morning
               (
               before
               he
               went
               away
               )
               he
               brought
               a
               great
               many
               Papers
               he
               had
               in
               his
               Breeches
               ,
               and
               in
               his
               Pockets
               ,
               bundled
               together
               ,
               and
               he
               desired
               us
               to
               burn
               them
               in
               the
               flame
               of
               a
               Candle
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               did
               he
               desire
               you
               to
               burn
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Anne
               Eld.
               
            
             
               He
               said
               ,
               the
               times
               were
               troublesome
               ,
               and
               being
               to
               travel
               ,
               he
               was
               to
               go
               to
               diverse
               places
               ,
               and
               if
               he
               were
               taken
               ,
               people
               would
               think
               him
               a
               Plotter
               ,
               having
               all
               those
               Papers
               about
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               burn
               the
               Book
               at
               that
               time
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Anne
               Eld.
               
            
             
               No.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Why
               not
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Anne
               Eld.
               
            
             
               I
               found
               that
               Book
               ,
               and
               asked
               him
               if
               that
               should
               be
               burnt
               ,
               he
               said
               ,
               no'
               lay
               that
               by
               ,
               it
               may
               do
               good
               seven
               years
               hence
               ,
               there
               is
               no
               Treason
               in
               it
               ;
               says
               my
               Sister
               to
               him
               ,
               Is
               there
               any
               Treason
               in
               the
               rest
               ?
               says
               he
               ,
               Do
               you
               think
               there
               is
               ?
               that
               was
               all
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Not
               to
               trouble
               you
               longer
               (
               my
               Lords
               )
               upon
               this
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               remember
               ,
               yesterday
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               pleased
               to
               offer
               by
               way
               of
               Evidence
               ,
               as
               if
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               a
               man
               of
               an
               ill
               Reputation
               in
               these
               particulars
               ,
               That
               he
               had
               defrauded
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               a
               mean
               man
               ,
               run
               in
               arrear
               to
               my
               Lord
               ;
               and
               that
               being
               in
               necessity
               ,
               he
               became
               a
               fit
               instrument
               to
               give
               false
               Evidence
               .
               We
               shall
               shew
               ,
               That
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               a
               man
               of
               Estate
               ;
               that
               both
               before
               ,
               and
               since
               he
               came
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               he
               hath
               made
               it
               his
               business
               to
               desire
               my
               Lord
               to
               come
               to
               Accompt
               ;
               that
               he
               hath
               pressed
               him
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               does
               believe
               ,
               and
               hath
               reason
               so
               to
               believe
               ,
               that
               there
               is
               Money
               coming
               from
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               that
               a
               considerable
               sum
               .
               Now
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               we
               shall
               make
               it
               appear
               ,
               that
               he
               hath
               made
               it
               his
               business
               to
               come
               to
               Accompt
               with
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               hope
               it
               will
               not
               be
               supposed
               that
               he
               is
               afraid
               of
               it
               ,
               or
               so
               needy
               ,
               or
               so
               mean.
               For
               this
               we
               call
               
                 Michael
                 Noble
              
               and
               
                 Stephen
                 Colledge
              
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Michael
             Noble
             
               sworn
               .
            
             )
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               know
               of
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Noble
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can
               say
               little
               or
               nothing
               as
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               for
               that
               I
               have
               never
               been
               acquainted
               with
               him
               ,
               but
               since
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               he
               came
               to
               be
               an
               Evidence
               ;
               but
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               desired
               me
               to
               assist
               him
               as
               much
               as
               I
               could
               ,
               to
               make
               up
               his
               Accompts
               with
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               .
               And
               we
               were
               twice
               at
               the
               Tower
               ,
               one
               time
               we
               spoke
               with
               my
               Lord
               with
               great
               difficulty
               ,
               another
               time
               we
               could
               not
               see
               him
               .
               There
               were
               three
               Books
               of
               Accompt
               ,
               two
               my
               Lord
               would
               let
               us
               see
               ,
               but
               the
               third
               ,
               wherein
               all
               the
               Discharges
               were
               ,
               as
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               said
               ,
               he
               would
               never
               let
               us
               see
               ,
               that
               is
               all
               I
               can
               say
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             
               Stephen
               Colledge
            
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Stephen
               Colledge
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Declare
               to
               my
               Lords
               ,
               what
               you
               know
               concerning
               Mr.
               
               Dugdale's
               pressing
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               to
               accompt
               with
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Colledge
               .
            
             
               In
               January
               last
               ,
               I
               went
               along
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               at
               his
               request
               ,
               to
               the
               Tower
               ,
               with
               one
               Mr.
               Noble
               a
               Barrester
               of
               the
               Temple
               ,
               and
               one
               Mr.
               Boson
               of
               Lyons-Inn
               ,
               in
               order
               to
               the
               making
               up
               Accompts
               between
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               and
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ;
               for
               he
               told
               me
               he
               was
               going
               thither
               for
               that
               end
               :
               When
               we
               came
               thither
               ,
               we
               met
               with
               one
               Captain
               Hawley
               ,
               who
               belongs
               to
               the
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               ,
               and
               we
               desired
               him
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               and
               tell
               him
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               there
               ,
               in
               order
               to
               make
               up
               his
               Accompts
               with
               him
               .
               He
               went
               and
               brings
               an
               answer
               back
               again
               ,
               That
               my
               Lord
               was
               not
               at
               leisure
               to
               speak
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               
               then
               ,
               nor
               none
               of
               us
               from
               him
               .
               And
               Mr.
               Hawley
               said
               ,
               he
               was
               then
               going
               up
               with
               the
               Lords
               to
               Nine-pins
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               faid
               ,
               he
               was
               very
               ill
               used
               ,
               for
               he
               had
               been
               several
               times
               there
               before
               ,
               and
               he
               could
               not
               be
               admitted
               to
               speak
               with
               him
               .
               He
               hath
               a
               little
               Book
               says
               he
               (
               meaning
               my
               Lord
               )
               wherein
               there
               is
               an
               Accompt
               made
               up
               under
               his
               own
               hand
               of
               almost
               Two
               or
               Three
               hundred
               Pounds
               ,
               which
               sum
               I
               cannot
               say
               ,
               but
               one
               of
               them
               I
               am
               certain
               of
               ,
               which
               he
               hath
               denyed
               several
               times
               that
               he
               had
               it
               ,
               (
               but
               I
               can
               prove
               that
               he
               hath
               it
               )
               if
               he
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               produce
               that
               Book
               ,
               we
               need
               not
               be
               a
               quarter
               of
               an
               hour
               in
               making
               up
               the
               Accompt
               .
               He
               did
               speak
               of
               some
               other
               sums
               he
               had
               to
               place
               to
               Accompt
               too
               ,
               but
               so
               much
               was
               made
               up
               already
               .
               But
               Captain
               Hawley
               saying
               he
               would
               not
               speak
               with
               him
               ,
               nor
               any
               of
               us
               from
               him
               ,
               I
               did
               take
               the
               liberty
               to
               say
               to
               Captain
               Hawley
               ,
               That
               it
               was
               hard
               his
               Lordship
               and
               his
               party
               should
               abuse
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               at
               that
               rate
               ,
               to
               make
               him
               his
               Debtor
               :
               for
               now
               I
               understood
               by
               what
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               said
               ,
               my
               Lord
               was
               his
               Debtor
               .
               And
               said
               I
               ,
               if
               I
               can
               perswade
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               he
               shall
               publish
               his
               Case
               ,
               for
               the
               Protestant
               Interest
               suffered
               by
               it
               ,
               That
               he
               should
               be
               made
               a
               Debtor
               to
               my
               Lord
               when
               he
               was
               not
               so
               .
               And
               I
               believe
               Capt.
               Hawley
               told
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               what
               I
               did
               say
               ,
               for
               when
               he
               came
               back
               again
               from
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               he
               said
               my
               Lord
               did
               acknowledge
               he
               had
               that
               Book
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               ready
               to
               be
               produced
               ,
               but
               he
               would
               stay
               till
               a
               Councellor
               of
               his
               came
               out
               of
               the
               Country
               ,
               and
               till
               he
               had
               spoke
               with
               the
               Lieutenant
               ;
               for
               he
               would
               not
               speak
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               unless
               the
               Lieutenant
               were
               by
               ,
               and
               in
               three
               or
               four
               days
               time
               he
               would
               send
               for
               him
               ;
               but
               I
               never
               heard
               that
               he
               sent
               for
               him
               ever
               since
               .
               If
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               have
               one
               thing
               more
               that
               I
               remember
               :
               There
               was
               a
               young
               man
               that
               belonged
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Family
               ,
               that
               heard
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               at
               Captain
               
               Hawley's
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               came
               to
               see
               him
               ,
               and
               paid
               a
               very
               great
               respect
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               would
               stand
               bare
               to
               him
               ,
               though
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               desired
               him
               to
               put
               on
               his
               Hat
               several
               times
               .
               Some
               of
               us
               asked
               him
               ,
               whether
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               thought
               to
               be
               such
               a
               Knave
               ,
               when
               he
               lived
               with
               his
               Lord
               ,
               as
               they
               would
               have
               made
               him
               since
               .
               No
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               as
               honest
               a
               Gentleman
               as
               ever
               lived
               in
               our
               Family
               .
               I
               remember
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               man
               said
               this
               to
               us
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Will
               you
               be
               pleased
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               ,
               if
               I
               speak
               impertinently
               I
               am
               under
               your
               correction
               ,
               I
               conceive
               I
               shall
               have
               something
               to
               answer
               this
               ,
               but
               I
               would
               first
               know
               whether
               I
               may
               desire
               of
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               have
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               here
               to
               give
               an
               account
               of
               this
               matter
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               he
               were
               here
               he
               could
               not
               be
               heard
               ,
               being
               a
               person
               accused
               for
               the
               same
               offence
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               he
               stands
               Indicted
               for
               the
               same
               Treason
               ,
               and
               cannot
               be
               a
               Witness
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beg
               your
               pardon
               ,
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             Nicholas
             Boson
             
               was
               sworn
            
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               Nicholas
               Boson
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Declare
               to
               my
               Lords
               what
               you
               know
               concerning
               Mr.
               
               Dugdale's
               pressing
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               to
               come
               to
               an
               accompt
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Boson
               .
            
             
               In
               January
               last
               ,
               I
               met
               with
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               one
               Mr.
               Noble
               ,
               and
               one
               Mr.
               Colledge
               .
               And
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               desired
               us
               to
               go
               down
               with
               him
               to
               the
               Tower.
               He
               said
               he
               had
               an
               Order
               of
               the
               Council
               to
               pass
               his
               Accompts
               with
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ;
               and
               when
               we
               came
               there
               ,
               we
               enquired
               for
               Captain
               Hawley
               ,
               and
               desired
               him
               that
               he
               would
               acquaint
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               there
               to
               accompt
               with
               him
               .
               Captain
               Hawley
               went
               up
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ,
               and
               brought
               word
               back
               again
               ,
               my
               Lord
               was
               not
               at
               leisure
               ,
               or
               would
               not
               speak
               with
               him
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               effect
               :
               whereupon
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               said
               ,
               it
               was
               very
               hard
               that
               he
               should
               be
               aspersed
               to
               owe
               my
               Lord
               Mony
               ,
               and
               he
               would
               not
               come
               to
               accompt
               with
               him
               .
               For
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               had
               a
               Book
               or
               Books
               in
               his
               custody
               which
               he
               would
               stand
               by
               ,
               and
               they
               would
               determine
               the
               business
               between
               them
               ;
               that
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               was
               almost
               Two
               hundred
               pounds
               in
               his
               debt
               .
               And
               pray
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               Captain
               Hawley
               ,
               do
               me
               the
               favour
               to
               go
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               again
               ,
               and
               desire
               him
               that
               he
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               produce
               that
               Book
               or
               Books
               .
               If
               I
               owe
               my
               Lord
               any
               money
               I
               am
               ready
               to
               pay
               him
               ,
               and
               if
               he
               owe
               me
               any
               ,
               I
               hope
               his
               Lordship
               will
               do
               the
               like
               by
               me
               ;
               as
               I
               am
               sure
               he
               does
               .
               Two
               hundred
               Pounds
               .
               Captain
               Hawley
               went
               away
               ,
               and
               brought
               this
               Answer
               ,
               That
               his
               Lordship
               would
               send
               for
               him
               in
               some
               short
               time
               ,
               assoon
               as
               a
               Co●nellor
               did
               come
               out
               of
               the
               Country
               ,
               whom
               he
               had
               entrusted
               with
               his
               Books
               ;
               and
               that
               was
               one
               Birch
               ,
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               have
               done
               with
               this
               Witness
               .
               And
               because
               we
               desire
               to
               conclude
               as
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               we
               shall
               call
               some
               persons
               of
               Quality
               as
               to
               his
               Reputation
               ,
               my
               Lord
               having
               gone
               about
               to
               make
               him
               a
               man
               of
               no
               Reputation
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Boson
               .
            
             
               I
               can
               speak
               too
               about
               the
               Boy
               that
               came
               in
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               There
               is
               no
               need
               of
               that
               now
               :
               we
               shall
               trouble
               you
               no
               further
               ,
               Sir.
               Your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               observe
               ,
               That
               Mr.
               Philips
               ,
               the
               Minister
               ,
               that
               was
               one
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               Witnesses
               ,
               did
               say
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               a
               man
               of
               whome
               many
               spoke
               well
               ,
               and
               some
               indifferently
               ,
               and
               perhaps
               that
               is
               the
               case
               of
               most
               good
               men
               ;
               for
               scarce
               any
               are
               so
               good
               that
               all
               speak
               well
               of
               them
               ;
               but
               that
               many
               should
               speak
               well
               and
               some
               indifferently
               of
               him
               ,
               may
               be
               the
               lot
               of
               a
               very
               good
               man.
               We
               shall
               call
               some
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               begin
               with
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               a
               Justice
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               that
               will
               tell
               you
               he
               hath
               known
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               long
               ,
               and
               what
               Reputation
               he
               is
               of
               .
            
          
           
             Thomas
             Whitby
             
               
                 Esq
              
               sworn
            
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               would
               be
               pleased
               to
               ask
               him
               what
               Reputation
               and
               credit
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               in
               ,
               in
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Service
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               to
               be
               a
               Servant
               to
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               this
               nine
               or
               ten
               years
               ;
               he
               was
               Steward
               to
               him
               ,
               and
               there
               was
               no
               other
               
               person
               between
               my
               Lord
               and
               him
               ;
               he
               received
               my
               Lords
               Rents
               and
               Debts
               for
               him
               ,
               exchanged
               his
               Lands
               for
               him
               in
               forty
               places
               ,
               I
               exchanged
               some
               Land
               with
               my
               Lord
               my self
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               the
               man
               that
               did
               it
               .
               He
               was
               very
               hard
               for
               my
               Lords
               advantage
               ,
               and
               did
               what
               he
               could
               for
               my
               Lords
               profit
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               know
               more
               as
               to
               his
               dealing
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               a
               person
               that
               was
               next
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               did
               rule
               and
               govern
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Family
               .
               All
               the
               Servants
               were
               under
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Was
               he
               looked
               upon
               to
               be
               an
               honest
               man
               in
               his
               dealings
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               .
            
             
               As
               to
               what
               I
               had
               to
               deal
               with
               him
               he
               was
               an
               honest
               man
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               the
               contrary
               .
               I
               have
               heard
               some
               Tradesmen
               complain
               that
               he
               hath
               put
               them
               off
               without
               Money
               ,
               would
               not
               pay
               them
               what
               my
               Lord
               owed
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               that
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               may
               be
               here
               when
               I
               shall
               have
               occasion
               to
               say
               something
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               That
               will
               be
               ,
               I
               hope
               ,
               by
               and
               by
               ,
               for
               we
               have
               almost
               done
               .
               Call
               Mr.
               
                 VVilliam
                 Southall
              
               .
            
          
           
             (
             VVho
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVitness
               .
            
             
               VVilliam
               Southall
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               Give
               my
               Lords
               an
               account
               how
               long
               you
               have
               known
               Dugdale
               ,
               and
               what
               you
               know
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               Mr.
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               about
               eight
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               How
               hath
               he
               behaved
               himself
               ?
               What
               Reputation
               hath
               he
               born
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Truly
               he
               hath
               always
               had
               a
               good
               repute
               ,
               not
               only
               with
               my
               Lords
               Tenants
               ,
               but
               also
               with
               the
               Workmen
               ,
               and
               those
               people
               that
               had
               dependance
               on
               the
               Family
               ,
               and
               truly
               I
               never
               heard
               any
               ill
               report
               of
               him
               ,
               but
               only
               what
               is
               spoken
               of
               now
               of
               late
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVinn
               .
            
             
               Were
               you
               very
               well
               acquainted
               with
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               but
               never
               had
               any
               business
               with
               him
               .
               Several
               discourses
               I
               have
               had
               with
               him
               about
               the
               Popish
               Religion
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               only
               observe
               this
               ,
               This
               Gentleman
               is
               Coroner
               of
               the
               County
               ,
               and
               hath
               a
               general
               knowledge
               of
               the
               County
               ,
               and
               must
               know
               most
               men
               there
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               VVinnington
               .
            
             
               You
               are
               Coroner
               of
               the
               County
               of
               Stafford
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               I
               think
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               I
               am
               one
               of
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Foley
               .
            
             
               What
               was
               he
               in
               my
               Lords
               House
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Bailiff
               ,
               and
               a
               kind
               of
               Governour
               ,
               providing
               meat
               ,
               and
               paying
               Workmen
               ,
               most
               of
               the
               things
               of
               the
               Family
               went
               through
               his
               hands
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               This
               Gentleman
               is
               a
               Coroner
               of
               the
               County
               ,
               
               and
               can
               speak
               materially
               to
               other
               particulars
               besides
               this
               of
               
               Dugdale's
               Reputation
               ▪
               for
               he
               was
               a
               person
               who
               was
               present
               when
               he
               made
               his
               first
               discovery
               of
               this
               Plot
               ,
               and
               was
               very
               instrumental
               in
               prevailing
               with
               him
               to
               do
               it
               .
               He
               will
               give
               your
               Lordships
               an
               account
               of
               the
               whole
               business
               ,
               and
               I
               would
               rather
               he
               himself
               should
               relate
               all
               the
               progress
               of
               it
               ,
               than
               take
               upon
               me
               to
               recite
               any
               of
               the
               passages
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               There
               was
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               November
               (
               78.
               )
               a
               Report
               that
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               gone
               away
               from
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               ,
               suddenly
               and
               strangely
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               the
               common
               report
               in
               the
               Country
               that
               he
               was
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               was
               fled
               for
               it
               .
               In
               the
               beginning
               of
               December
               I
               went
               through
               a
               Town
               called
               
                 Great
                 Heywood
              
               ,
               a
               Mile
               and
               a
               half
               from
               Tixal
               ,
               where
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               and
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               dwelt
               .
               I
               called
               at
               Mr.
               Thomas
               Whitby's
               House
               ,
               the
               Gentleman
               that
               was
               up
               here
               lately
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               telling
               me
               ,
               Dugdale
               was
               come
               again
               and
               apprehended
               by
               the
               Watch
               at
               Heywood
               upon
               suspicion
               .
               He
               told
               me
               further
               ,
               he
               would
               make
               no
               confession
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               though
               he
               had
               been
               under
               Examination
               before
               Sir
               
                 VValter
                 Bagott
              
               ,
               Mr.
               Kinnersley
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               he
               said
               Sir
               
                 Thomas
                 VVhitgrave
              
               .
               But
               he
               told
               me
               divers
               passages
               by
               which
               we
               both
               suspected
               he
               might
               be
               concerned
               and
               know
               of
               the
               Plot.
               We
               thought
               so
               from
               the
               various
               reports
               and
               rumors
               we
               had
               heard
               in
               the
               Country
               ,
               and
               from
               those
               great
               grounds
               of
               suspicion
               that
               were
               given
               us
               .
               As
               I
               returned
               from
               Heywood
               ,
               I
               resolved
               I
               would
               speak
               with
               Dugdale
               the
               first
               opportunity
               ,
               for
               I
               had
               a
               strong
               perswasion
               I
               could
               prevail
               with
               him
               to
               make
               a
               discovery
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               but
               before
               I
               did
               speak
               with
               him
               ,
               there
               was
               one
               Goldsmith
               my
               Kinsman
               ,
               had
               some
               difference
               fallen
               out
               between
               him
               and
               Mr.
               Ansell
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               touching
               a
               Deed
               ,
               the
               deciding
               of
               which
               they
               had
               referred
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
               And
               he
               desired
               me
               to
               go
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               to
               Stafford
               with
               him
               ,
               I
               was
               very
               glad
               of
               the
               opportunity
               .
               Ansel
               was
               to
               bring
               one
               Hanson
               ,
               Mr.
               Goldsmith
               was
               to
               bring
               me
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               was
               to
               bring
               one
               Mr.
               Gerrard
               ,
               that
               was
               concerned
               in
               the
               Premortgage
               ,
               that
               we
               might
               all
               have
               discourse
               together
               .
               I
               promised
               to
               meet
               them
               at
               the
               time
               appointed
               ,
               and
               accordingly
               the
               23
               th
               .
               of
               December
               ,
               two
               days
               before
               Christmas-day
               ,
               I
               came
               to
               the
               place
               in
               Stafford
               ,
               where
               Dugdale
               was
               ,
               about
               Ten
               a
               Clock
               in
               the
               Morning
               ,
               where
               they
               met
               according
               to
               their
               promise
               .
               We
               had
               not
               been
               in
               the
               House
               longer
               than
               a
               quarter
               of
               an
               hour
               ,
               but
               the
               Kings
               business
               ,
               which
               I
               thought
               was
               a
               business
               of
               greater
               weight
               than
               any
               particular
               business
               ,
               did
               stick
               much
               upon
               me
               ,
               and
               I
               resolved
               before
               I
               spoke
               to
               the
               particular
               business
               about
               which
               we
               all
               met
               ,
               I
               would
               first
               speak
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               to
               put
               that
               in
               execution
               which
               I
               had
               resolved
               .
               After
               a
               short
               space
               of
               time
               I
               desired
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               that
               I
               might
               speak
               with
               him
               in
               a
               Chamber
               privately
               between
               him
               and
               me
               ;
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               if
               I
               would
               go
               into
               the
               next
               Chamber
               to
               his
               ,
               he
               would
               come
               to
               me
               .
               Accordingly
               I
               went
               ,
               and
               staid
               a
               short
               space
               of
               time
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               came
               to
               me
               .
               I
               desired
               him
               to
               make
               the
               Door
               to
               ,
               which
               he
               did
               ,
               and
               I
               began
               thus
               with
               him
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               ●●id
               I
               ,
               
               for
               some
               Years
               last
               past
               ,
               since
               I
               came
               to
               be
               acquainted
               with
               you
               ,
               I
               have
               always
               had
               a
               good
               esteem
               of
               you
               ,
               and
               you
               a
               good
               report
               in
               the
               Country
               where
               you
               live
               ,
               and
               now
               there
               is
               an
               opportunity
               put
               into
               your
               hands
               to
               serve
               his
               Majesty
               and
               his
               Protestant
               Subjects
               ,
               if
               (
               as
               an
               honest
               man
               ought
               )
               you
               will
               discharge
               your
               Duty
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               replyed
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               what
               do
               you
               mean
               ?
               Why
               said
               I
               ,
               I
               mean
               this
               in
               a
               few
               words
               ,
               Here
               is
               a
               Plot
               discovered
               in
               London
               ,
               and
               if
               it
               be
               in
               London
               ,
               I
               conceive
               it
               hath
               been
               in
               part
               acted
               at
               Tixal
               ,
               and
               if
               there
               ,
               of
               necessity
               ,
               you
               having
               such
               a
               Government
               and
               Rule
               over
               that
               House
               ,
               it
               is
               impossible
               but
               you
               must
               know
               it
               .
               He
               looked
               upon
               me
               very
               earnestly
               ,
               and
               gave
               me
               a
               smile
               ,
               but
               answered
               me
               not
               ;
               I
               replied
               to
               him
               again
               thus
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               There
               is
               a
               natural
               Allegiance
               which
               every
               Subject
               owes
               to
               his
               Soveraign
               ,
               and
               by
               that
               it
               is
               required
               ,
               that
               if
               any
               Subjects
               know
               of
               any
               Plot
               or
               any
               Conspiracy
               against
               his
               Person
               and
               Government
               ,
               they
               ought
               in
               Conscience
               to
               discover
               it
               ,
               therefore
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               discharge
               a
               good
               Conscience
               ,
               and
               tell
               what
               you
               know
               ,
               for
               it
               is
               commonly
               suspected
               you
               are
               concerned
               in
               the
               Plot.
               He
               answered
               ,
               I
               have
               taken
               the
               Oaths
               of
               Allegiance
               and
               Supremacy
               .
               When
               and
               where
               said
               I
               ?
               Before
               his
               Majesties
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               at
               Stafford
               ,
               said
               he
               .
               Then
               said
               I
               ,
               there
               is
               not
               only
               that
               natural
               Allegiance
               which
               every
               Subject
               owes
               to
               his
               Prince
               ,
               but
               the
               Oath
               of
               Almighty
               God
               lies
               upon
               your
               Conscience
               ,
               therefore
               discharge
               a
               good
               Conscience
               ;
               and
               tell
               your
               knowledge
               .
               He
               stood
               pausing
               a
               little
               while
               ,
               and
               by
               and
               by
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               If
               I
               should
               make
               any
               discovery
               ,
               how
               should
               I
               be
               secured
               of
               my
               Life
               ?
               You
               need
               not
               Question
               that
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               nor
               his
               Majesties
               Gracious
               Pardon
               which
               he
               hath
               promised
               in
               his
               Proclamation
               ;
               Have
               you
               seen
               the
               Proclamation
               ?
               Yes
               ,
               said
               he
               .
               Said
               I
               ,
               you
               have
               but
               a
               short
               time
               ,
               a
               day
               or
               two
               to
               discover
               in
               ,
               for
               this
               is
               the
               23
               th
               ,
               and
               as
               I
               do
               conceive
               ,
               you
               ought
               to
               discover
               before
               the
               25
               th
               ;
               he
               stood
               pausing
               a
               while
               about
               the
               time
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               you
               need
               not
               question
               his
               Majesties
               Gracious
               Promise
               ,
               and
               to
               incourage
               you
               thereto
               ,
               there
               is
               not
               only
               an
               assurance
               of
               Pardon
               ,
               but
               a
               promise
               of
               Reward
               of
               Two
               hundred
               pounds
               .
               Said
               he
               ,
               if
               I
               do
               discover
               any
               thing
               of
               my
               knowledge
               ,
               I
               matter
               not
               ,
               nor
               desire
               (
               I
               don't
               know
               which
               it
               was
               )
               his
               Majesties
               Money
               ,
               so
               I
               may
               be
               secured
               of
               my
               Life
               .
               Upon
               this
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               said
               I
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               you
               need
               not
               question
               his
               Majesties
               Gracious
               Promise
               ,
               my
               Life
               for
               yours
               ,
               if
               you
               have
               not
               his
               Pardon
               ,
               but
               I
               will
               take
               special
               care
               about
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               will
               send
               up
               a
               Letter
               to
               London
               ,
               directed
               to
               some
               of
               the
               Lords
               (
               which
               I
               accordingly
               did
               )
               and
               I
               will
               also
               speak
               to
               Captain
               Lane
               ,
               who
               is
               a
               worthy
               Gentleman
               to
               interpose
               in
               it
               too
               .
               Then
               said
               he
               ,
               I
               will
               make
               a
               discovery
               of
               the
               Plot.
               Then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               first
               some
               particular
               passages
               relating
               to
               this
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               ,
               and
               also
               concerning
               Mr.
               Evers
               and
               Mr
               Peters
               ,
               now
               in
               Custody
               ,
               and
               some
               other
               particulars
               ;
               I
               wished
               him
               that
               he
               would
               speak
               no
               more
               at
               that
               time
               .
               And
               when
               I
               parted
               with
               him
               ,
               forthwith
               I
               consulted
               with
               my self
               what
               I
               ought
               to
               do
               ,
               in
               point
               of
               Law
               ;
               I
               knew
               ,
               I
               must
               discover
               ,
               that
               a
               further
               discovery
               might
               be
               made
               of
               what
               had
               passed
               between
               
               us
               .
               Then
               I
               went
               to
               Mr.
               Freek
               ,
               who
               was
               either
               Mayor
               or
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               in
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               he
               must
               come
               with
               me
               to
               Serjeant
               
               Parry's
               .
               He
               asked
               me
               what
               to
               do
               .
               I
               told
               him
               when
               he
               came
               he
               should
               know
               :
               he
               accordingly
               came
               ,
               and
               took
               short
               Notes
               of
               a
               further
               Discovery
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               Freek
               he
               certified
               it
               up
               to
               Mr.
               Chetwyn
               ,
               who
               was
               then
               at
               London
               .
               Upon
               the
               day
               following
               the
               24
               th
               .
               I
               rose
               and
               went
               to
               one
               Mr.
               Vernon
               ,
               one
               of
               His
               Majesties
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               and
               told
               him
               what
               had
               happened
               ,
               and
               he
               sent
               for
               Captain
               Lane
               another
               of
               His
               Majesties
               Justices
               of
               the
               Peace
               ,
               and
               they
               took
               an
               Examination
               of
               him
               .
               I
               have
               done
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               with
               reference
               to
               his
               Discovery
               ,
               and
               the
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               remember
               what
               he
               mentioned
               of
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
               what
               he
               said
               of
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               can
               only
               tell
               what
               he
               said
               at
               the
               first
               Examination
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               the
               first
               time
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               spoke
               with
               him
               was
               at
               
               Tixal-Hall
               ,
               nigh
               to
               the
               Gate-House
               ,
               betwixt
               the
               Gate
               and
               the
               Hall.
               My
               Lord
               was
               going
               into
               the
               Hall
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               told
               him
               ,
               it
               was
               a
               very
               hard
               thing
               ,
               or
               to
               that
               purpose
               ,
               that
               they
               could
               not
               say
               their
               Prayes
               but
               in
               private
               ,
               and
               after
               told
               him
               the
               same
               day
               or
               night
               t'one
               ,
               that
               they
               had
               some
               work
               to
               do
               ,
               and
               he
               might
               or
               must
               be
               instrumental
               in
               it
               .
               This
               was
               the
               effect
               of
               what
               he
               told
               me
               passed
               the
               first
               time
               .
               Another
               time
               I
               think
               he
               told
               me
               he
               was
               to
               have
               five
               hundred
               pounds
               to
               kill
               the
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               When
               did
               he
               tell
               you
               so
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Not
               till
               Captain
               Lane
               examined
               him
               ,
               which
               was
               the
               second
               time
               he
               was
               examined
               ;
               which
               was
               about
               the
               26
               th
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               he
               swear
               that
               before
               Vernon
               and
               Lane
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               he
               did
               ,
               I
               could
               give
               your
               Lordships
               a
               Breviate
               of
               what
               he
               swore
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               he
               may
               give
               that
               Breviate
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               I
               took
               some
               Notes
               of
               what
               he
               swore
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Have
               you
               them
               by
               you
               ,
               or
               about
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Produce
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Southall
               .
            
             
               I
               took
               this
               upon
               some
               Paper
               I
               had
               in
               my
               Pocket
               ,
               and
               is
               the
               substance
               of
               what
               he
               swore
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Which
             he
             delivered
             to
             the
             Clerk.
             )
          
           
             
               Clerke
               .
            
             
               December
               the
               
                 24th
                 .
                 1678.
              
               
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               informeth
               ,
               That
               in
               September
               last
               ,
               he
               met
               in
               Tixall
               ,
               the
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               nigh
               to
               the
               Gates
               ,
               who
               said
               ,
               That
               it
               was
               sad
               they
               were
               troubled
               they
               could
               not
               say
               their
               Prayers
               ,
               but
               in
               a
               hid
               manner
               ,
               but
               suddenly
               there
               would
               be
               a
               Reformation
               to
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               ,
               
               and
               if
               there
               be
               a
               good
               success
               we
               shall
               enjoy
               our
               freedom
               .
               And
               that
               upon
               the
               20th
               .
               day
               of
               
                 September
                 ,
                 1678.
              
               the
               said
               Lord
               Stafford
               told
               this
               Informant
               ,
               That
               there
               was
               a
               Design
               in
               hand
               ,
               and
               if
               he
               would
               undertake
               in
               it
               ,
               he
               should
               have
               a
               good
               Reward
               ,
               &c.
               and
               make
               himself
               famous
               .
               The
               same
               day
               this
               Informant
               went
               up
               into
               Mr.
               
                 Francis
                 Evers
              
               Chamber
               to
               know
               what
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               meant
               by
               his
               words
               ;
               and
               he
               first
               made
               him
               swear
               secresie
               upon
               his
               knees
               ,
               and
               then
               told
               him
               ,
               That
               he
               might
               be
               a
               person
               employed
               ,
               and
               have
               a
               good
               Reward
               ,
               and
               make
               himself
               famous
               ,
               if
               he
               would
               stand
               instrumental
               with
               others
               in
               taking
               aatay
               the
               Kings
               Life
               ,
               by
               Shooting
               or
               otherwise
               ,
               and
               need
               not
               fear
               ,
               for
               that
               the
               Pope
               had
               Excommunicated
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               that
               all
               that
               were
               Excommunicated
               by
               him
               were
               Hereticks
               ,
               and
               they
               might
               Kill
               them
               ,
               and
               be
               Canonized
               for
               Saints
               in
               so
               doing
               .
               And
               that
               the
               Design
               was
               as
               well
               to
               Kill
               the
               Duke
               of
               Monmouth
               as
               well
               as
               the
               King.
               
            
             
               December
               the
               
                 29th
                 .
                 1678.
              
               
               This
               Informant
               saith
               ,
               That
               since
               the
               20th
               .
               day
               of
               September
               last
               ,
               the
               said
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               promise
               him
               Five
               Hundred
               Pounds
               as
               to
               the
               carrying
               on
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               that
               Mr.
               Evers
               should
               give
               him
               instructions
               about
               the
               same
               .
               And
               that
               the
               Lord
               Stafford
               told
               him
               ,
               he
               did
               not
               doubt
               of
               his
               fidelity
               ,
               for
               Mr.
               Evers
               had
               given
               him
               a
               good
               character
               to
               be
               trusty
               .
               And
               that
               the
               Lord
               Stafford
               told
               this
               Informant
               ,
               That
               there
               was
               a
               Design
               to
               take
               away
               the
               Life
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               the
               Life
               of
               the
               Duke
               of
               Monmouth
               ,
               and
               that
               several
               others
               were
               to
               be
               imployed
               in
               the
               Design
               besides
               this
               Informant
               .
               And
               that
               this
               had
               been
               throughly
               considered
               of
               to
               be
               the
               fittest
               way
               for
               the
               establishing
               of
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               .
               And
               that
               at
               the
               said
               time
               ,
               the
               said
               Lord
               Stafford
               laid
               his
               hand
               upon
               his
               head
               ,
               and
               prayed
               God
               to
               keep
               him
               in
               his
               good
               mind
               ,
               and
               to
               be
               faithful
               to
               what
               he
               had
               intrusted
               him
               in
               ,
               &c.
               
            
             
               And
               this
               Informant
               further
               saith
               ,
               That
               he
               doubting
               of
               the
               Lord
               Stafford's
               payment
               ,
               the
               said
               Mr.
               Evers
               promised
               him
               the
               making
               good
               of
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               promise
               ,
               &c.
               
            
             
               And
               further
               saith
               ,
               that
               he
               saw
               a
               Letter
               directed
               from
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               to
               Mr.
               Evers
               ,
               and
               he
               read
               the
               same
               ,
               and
               knows
               it
               to
               be
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               writing
               ,
               and
               that
               therein
               was
               written
               ,
               that
               things
               went
               on
               well
               beyond
               the
               S●as
               ,
               for
               the
               carrying
               on
               the
               Design
               ,
               and
               so
               he
               hoped
               it
               did
               do
               here
               in
               
                 England
                 ,
                 &c.
              
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               will
               examine
               no
               further
               as
               to
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               :
               But
               will
               conclude
               with
               this
               Witness
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               he
               speaks
               fully
               to
               him
               .
               The
               next
               Witness
               we
               called
               was
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               have
               been
               pleased
               to
               observe
               ,
               That
               what
               Exceptions
               have
               been
               made
               against
               him
               ,
               have
               not
               been
               so
               much
               by
               Witnesses
               produced
               ,
               as
               by
               opposing
               one
               part
               of
               his
               Testimony
               to
               another
               ,
               what
               he
               swore
               at
               one
               time
               to
               what
               he
               swore
               at
               another
               ,
               to
               which
               we
               shall
               give
               an
               Answer
               when
               we
               come
               to
               sum
               up
               our
               Evidence
               ;
               for
               there
               will
               be
               no
               need
               of
               Witnesses
               to
               what
               is
               objected
               against
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               but
               only
               of
               Observations
               ;
               but
               as
               to
               the
               third
               Witness
               Turbervill
               ,
               we
               have
               something
               to
               answer
               of
               Witness
               ,
               and
               some●●ing
               by
               way
               of
               making
               Observation
               .
               We
               will
               first
               call
               our
               Witnesses
               .
            
             
             
               Then
               
                 Mr.
                 Southall
              
               desired
               his
               Paper
               again
               ,
               which
               the
               Court
               told
               him
               he
               should
               have
               a
               Copy
               of
               from
               the
               Clerk.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               And
               our
               first
               Witness
               is
               to
               this
               purpose
               ,
               It
               was
               objected
               against
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               —
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               done
               with
               Dugdale
               ?
               You
               have
               forgot
               to
               give
               an
               Answer
               to
               the
               objection
               about
               the
               point
               of
               time
               when
               Hobson
               told
               him
               of
               the
               Design
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               That
               will
               be
               when
               we
               come
               to
               make
               our
               Observations
               ,
               we
               shall
               not
               answer
               that
               by
               Witnesses
               ;
               when
               we
               come
               to
               sum
               up
               our
               Evidence
               ,
               I
               doubt
               not
               but
               we
               shall
               give
               a
               sufficient
               Answer
               to
               that
               Objection
               .
               But
               to
               go
               on
               with
               what
               is
               to
               be
               answered
               by
               Testimony
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               remember
               ,
               That
               Turbervill
               did
               inform
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               That
               he
               had
               some
               converse
               with
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               at
               Paris
               ,
               being
               introduced
               by
               some
               of
               the
               Fathers
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               call
               a
               Gentleman
               that
               had
               happened
               to
               be
               there
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               that
               will
               tell
               you
               though
               he
               did
               not
               know
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               yet
               he
               knew
               that
               Turbervill
               did
               converse
               much
               with
               an
               English
               Lord
               in
               that
               place
               where
               my
               Lord
               does
               acknowledge
               his
               Lodging
               to
               be
               .
               He
               will
               give
               you
               some
               further
               account
               how
               Turbervill
               went
               to
               Diep
               in
               expectation
               of
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               how
               he
               had
               a
               Message
               from
               the
               Lord
               ,
               though
               he
               did
               not
               know
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
               He
               will
               give
               you
               a
               further
               account
               how
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               was
               earnest
               with
               him
               to
               go
               to
               Calice
               ,
               and
               then
               told
               him
               ,
               he
               might
               go
               over
               with
               my
               Lord
               at
               that
               time
               .
               The
               use
               we
               make
               of
               these
               particulars
               we
               will
               forbear
               to
               mention
               till
               we
               sum
               up
               our
               Evidence
               .
               We
               desire
               to
               examine
               Mr.
               
                 Thomas
                 Mort.
              
               
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               ask
               Mr.
               Mort
               ,
               whether
               he
               knew
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               at
               Paris
               ,
               and
               at
               what
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Sir
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Mort.
               
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               knew
               him
               ,
               it
               is
               now
               five
               years
               past
               since
               we
               were
               in
               Paris
               .
               He
               and
               I
               had
               been
               intimately
               acquainted
               ,
               before
               we
               lived
               in
               the
               same
               Family
               .
               I
               was
               several
               times
               in
               company
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               many
               times
               in
               his
               Brothers
               company
               ,
               which
               was
               a
               Monk
               ,
               and
               I
               heard
               him
               say
               his
               Brother
               had
               an
               intention
               he
               should
               be
               of
               the
               same
               Order
               .
               And
               some
               time
               after
               that
               he
               altered
               his
               resolution
               ,
               and
               designed
               for
               England
               ,
               and
               I
               had
               such
               a
               design
               too
               to
               go
               from
               Paris
               ,
               where
               I
               was
               an
               Apprentice
               .
               And
               being
               acquainted
               with
               him
               I
               resolved
               to
               go
               over
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               his
               Brother
               the
               Monk
               had
               introduced
               him
               into
               the
               favour
               of
               a
               Lord
               ,
               as
               I
               take
               it
               ,
               it
               was
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               remember
               .
               And
               that
               there
               was
               a
               Vessel
               to
               come
               to
               Diep
               ,
               a
               Yaught
               ,
               and
               we
               should
               go
               thither
               to
               go
               over
               with
               my
               Lord.
               And
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               told
               me
               ,
               we
               must
               make
               as
               much
               hast
               as
               might
               be
               ,
               for
               it
               were
               better
               to
               be
               there
               a
               day
               or
               two
               too
               soon
               than
               too
               late
               .
               We
               went
               to
               Diep
               ,
               and
               when
               we
               came
               there
               ,
               the
               Vessel
               was
               not
               come
               .
               And
               when
               we
               had
               been
               there
               a
               fortnight
               ,
               or
               thereabouts
               ,
               we
               were
               
               put
               to
               a
               great
               deal
               of
               inconveniency
               by
               reason
               of
               our
               long
               stay
               there
               ,
               and
               ,
               I
               think
               ,
               if
               I
               mistake
               not
               ,
               I
               or
               some
               of
               the
               Company
               said
               ,
               Cursed
               is
               he
               that
               relies
               or
               depends
               on
               a
               broken
               Staff
               ,
               alluding
               ,
               as
               I
               believe
               ,
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               Name
               .
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               told
               me
               ,
               if
               we
               did
               go
               to
               Calice
               ,
               we
               might
               go
               over
               with
               my
               Lord
               ;
               but
               how
               or
               by
               what
               means
               he
               understood
               the
               Vessel
               would
               be
               there
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               go
               that
               way
               ,
               I
               know
               not
               .
               But
               we
               did
               not
               go
               thither
               ,
               we
               had
               another
               opportunity
               ;
               there
               was
               a
               small
               Vessel
               whether
               a
               Fish-Boat
               ,
               or
               a
               Coal-Vessel
               I
               cannot
               tell
               ,
               a
               very
               little
               one
               it
               was
               ,
               but
               we
               took
               the
               opportunity
               ,
               and
               came
               over
               in
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               make
               use
               of
               it
               in
               due
               time
               ,
               we
               only
               call
               him
               now
               to
               prove
               his
               converse
               with
               a
               Lord
               at
               Paris
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               you
               ever
               see
               Turbervill
               at
               a
               Lords
               House
               in
               Paris
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Mort.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               not
               that
               I
               can
               remember
               ;
               but
               I
               think
               as
               near
               as
               I
               remember
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               be
               positive
               ,
               I
               walked
               about
               Luxenburgh
               House
               while
               he
               went
               ,
               as
               he
               said
               ,
               to
               the
               place
               where
               the
               Lord
               lodged
               ,
               I
               was
               thereabouts
               till
               he
               came
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               :
            
             
               In
               what
               Street
               was
               it
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Mort.
               
            
             
               Indeed
               I
               cannot
               tell
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               This
               man
               is
               very
               cautious
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Can
               you
               tell
               the
               Lords
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Mort.
               
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               his
               Title
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               it
               was
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Pray
               who
               were
               you
               Servant
               to
               ?
               Who
               were
               you
               bred
               under
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Mort.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Powis
               .
               I
               served
               as
               Page
               to
               him
               ,
               when
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               was
               Gentleman-Usher
               to
               the
               Young
               Lady
               ,
               one
               of
               his
               Daughters
               ,
               since
               married
               to
               my
               Lord
               Molineux
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Will
               my
               Lord
               please
               to
               ask
               him
               any
               Questions
               ?
               if
               not
               ,
               we
               will
               go
               on
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               not
               at
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Well
               then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               call
               one
               Mr.
               Powell
               ,
               a
               Gentleman
               of
               Grays-Inn
               ,
               to
               tell
               you
               when
               he
               first
               heard
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               speak
               of
               this
               Evidence
               he
               hath
               now
               given
               .
            
          
           
             Mr.
             Powell
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Pray
               will
               you
               give
               an
               account
               what
               discourse
               you
               had
               with
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               about
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               when
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powell
               .
            
             
               About
               this
               time
               Twelve-month
               we
               discoursed
               about
               it
               ,
               and
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               much
               to
               say
               in
               relation
               to
               the
               Plot
               ;
               but
               truly
               he
               did
               not
               name
               any
               particulars
               to
               me
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Where
               was
               this
               ,
               we
               desire
               to
               ask
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powell
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               at
               the
               Kings-head
               Tavern
               in
               Holborn
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Are
               you
               sure
               it
               was
               a
               year
               ago
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powel
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               about
               this
               time
               Twelve-month
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               was
               the
               reason
               he
               did
               not
               think
               fit
               then
               to
               reveal
               it
               ?
               Did
               he
               tell
               the
               reason
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powel
               .
            
             
               I
               think
               he
               gave
               me
               a
               reason
               ,
               That
               he
               was
               something
               cautious
               ,
               because
               he
               feared
               he
               might
               disoblige
               his
               Brother
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               give
               you
               any
               further
               reason
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powel
               .
            
             
               I
               think
               he
               said
               he
               was
               afraid
               he
               should
               not
               have
               incouragement
               enough
               ,
               for
               he
               said
               some
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               had
               been
               discouraged
               ,
               and
               he
               was
               afraid
               he
               should
               be
               so
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Now
               we
               shall
               call
               a
               few
               Witnesses
               to
               Mr.
               
               Turbervill's
               Reputation
               which
               have
               known
               him
               a
               good
               while
               .
               Mr.
               Hobby
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Was
               this
               time
               that
               Mr.
               Powel
               speaks
               of
               ,
               that
               he
               did
               discourse
               with
               him
               ,
               before
               or
               after
               that
               of
               Yalden
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               do
               not
               know
               of
               any
               discourse
               with
               Yalden
               ,
               nay
               we
               believe
               none
               such
               was
               .
               This
               Witness
               speaks
               of
               a
               Year
               since
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               time
               does
               Yalden
               speake
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVilliam
               Jones
               .
            
             
               February
               or
               March
               last
               ,
               and
               this
               was
               a
               year
               ago
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               This
               was
               then
               before
               that
               certainly
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVilliam
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               Mr.
               Arnold
               a
               Member
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               may
               be
               sworn
               .
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 in
                 his
                 place
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVilliam
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Arnold
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               know
               him
               very
               well
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               known
               him
               these
               two
               years
               ,
               he
               came
               recommended
               to
               me
               from
               his
               Grace
               my
               Lord
               Duke
               of
               Buckingham
               ;
               My
               Lords
               ,
               presently
               after
               the
               breaking
               out
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               he
               was
               sent
               down
               into
               our
               Countrey
               ,
               by
               the
               Lords
               of
               your
               Lordships
               House
               that
               were
               of
               the
               Committee
               ,
               and
               a
               particular
               recommendation
               from
               the
               Duke
               of
               Buckingham
               to
               me
               ,
               to
               give
               him
               direction
               and
               assistance
               to
               find
               out
               a
               Priest
               ,
               one
               
                 Charles
                 Prichard
              
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               also
               if
               I
               mistake
               not
               ,
               one
               Morgan
               ,
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               Priest
               .
               I
               spoke
               with
               him
               before
               he
               went
               ,
               I
               sent
               Letters
               down
               with
               him
               ,
               I
               spoke
               with
               him
               afterwards
               ,
               he
               hath
               been
               in
               my
               family
               some
               time
               ;
               he
               hath
               behaved
               himself
               very
               well
               there
               ,
               and
               in
               several
               other
               sober
               families
               nearly
               related
               to
               me
               .
               I
               have
               not
               heard
               a
               better
               character
               of
               any
               man
               from
               all
               sorts
               of
               people
               ,
               than
               of
               him
               in
               my
               life
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               tell
               you
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               Sir
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Arnold
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               several
               times
               find
               by
               him
               ,
               that
               he
               knew
               much
               ;
               having
               conversed
               both
               in
               France
               and
               here
               with
               Jesuits
               and
               Priests
               .
               I
               pressed
               him
               oftentimes
               to
               discover
               his
               knowledge
               ,
               and
               to
               come
               in
               to
               the
               Council
               ;
               but
               he
               gave
               me
               such
               Answers
               why
               he
               did
               not
               ,
               that
               I
               could
               not
               answer
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVilliam
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               were
               they
               Sir
               ?
               Pray
               tell
               us
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Arnold
               .
            
             
               That
               the
               Witnesses
               that
               were
               come
               in
               ,
               were
               in
               danger
               of
               their
               Lives
               ;
               that
               they
               were
               discouraged
               ,
               that
               they
               were
               discountenanced
               ;
               and
               as
               long
               as
               the
               Duke
               of
               York
               had
               that
               power
               in
               the
               Conncil
               that
               he
               had
               ,
               and
               my
               Lady
               
               Powis's
               Brother
               had
               that
               power
               over
               those
               Countreys
               where
               he
               lived
               (
               which
               his
               Lordship
               is
               often
               pleased
               to
               call
               his
               Province
               )
               he
               durst
               not
               do
               it
               for
               his
               Life
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Mr
             ,
             Hobby
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               and
               how
               long
               have
               you
               known
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hobby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               near
               four
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               account
               can
               you
               give
               of
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hobby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               my
               first
               acquaintance
               with
               him
               ,
               was
               at
               my
               Brothers
               House
               in
               Glamorganshire
               .
               When
               I
               came
               there
               ,
               my
               Brother
               shew'd
               him
               me
               ,
               and
               told
               me
               he
               was
               a
               very
               worthy
               man
               ,
               but
               his
               Friends
               had
               cast
               him
               off
               ,
               because
               he
               would
               not
               take
               Orders
               in
               the
               Romish
               Church
               .
               He
               lived
               at
               my
               Brothers
               above
               a
               year
               ;
               and
               when
               he
               came
               thence
               ,
               my
               Brother
               writ
               a
               Letter
               of
               Recommendation
               to
               my
               Father
               to
               receive
               him
               there
               ,
               and
               do
               him
               all
               the
               kindness
               he
               could
               .
               He
               came
               to
               my
               Father's
               ,
               and
               stay'd
               there
               near
               half
               a
               year
               ,
               or
               thereabouts
               ,
               I
               cannot
               tell
               to
               a
               Month
               or
               so
               .
               Since
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               him
               often
               in
               this
               Town
               ,
               and
               been
               in
               his
               company
               ;
               and
               I
               never
               knew
               ,
               nor
               heard
               ,
               but
               that
               he
               behaved
               himself
               like
               a
               worthy
               honest
               Gentleman
               ;
               but
               as
               to
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               I
               know
               nothing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               ask
               you
               not
               to
               that
               :
               Where
               is
               Mr.
               Matthews
               ?
            
          
           
             Then
             Mr.
             Matthews
             a
             Divine
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               VV.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Matthews
               ,
               pray
               tell
               my
               Lords
               ,
               Whether
               you
               know
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               ,
               and
               how
               long
               have
               you
               known
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Matthews
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               Mr.
               
                 Edward
                 Turbervill
              
               for
               about
               four
               years
               last
               past
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Go
               on
               ,
               what
               do
               you
               know
               of
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Matthews
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               lived
               some
               time
               in
               my
               Neighbourhood
               ;
               I
               never
               knew
               him
               guilty
               of
               any
               ill
               action
               at
               all
               ,
               but
               a
               person
               of
               a
               very
               fair
               Reputation
               .
               He
               acknowledged
               himself
               a
               Roman
               Catholick
               ,
               and
               was
               pleased
               to
               give
               me
               the
               liberty
               to
               talk
               to
               him
               .
               I
               found
               him
               inclinable
               to
               hearken
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               to
               those
               Reasons
               I
               offered
               to
               him
               ;
               and
               I
               found
               he
               had
               a
               mind
               to
               quit
               that
               Religion
               ,
               being
               convinced
               by
               the
               Arguments
               I
               gave
               him
               ,
               and
               as
               several
               times
               he
               hath
               since
               told
               me
               ,
               those
               were
               some
               of
               the
               great
               motives
               of
               his
               coming
               over
               from
               the
               Romish
               to
               the
               Protestant
               Communion
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               were
               the
               Motives
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Matthews
               .
            
             
               One
               was
               the
               hazard
               I
               told
               him
               of
               ,
               in
               his
               living
               in
               the
               Roman
               Communion
               as
               to
               Salvation
               ;
               another
               was
               the
               excellency
               of
               the
               Doctrines
               of
               our
               Church
               ,
               its
               Principles
               and
               Practices
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Did
               he
               acknowledge
               to
               you
               he
               knew
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Matthews
            
             
               No
               ,
               not
               a
               syllable
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               don't
               call
               him
               to
               that
               purpose
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             another
             Witness
             was
             sworn
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Witness
               .
            
             
               William
               Seys
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Pray
               will
               you
               acquaint
               my
               Lords
               ,
               what
               you
               know
               of
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Seys
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               been
               acquainted
               with
               him
               this
               two
               or
               three
               years
               ,
               and
               I
               never
               knew
               him
               guilty
               of
               any
               ill
               action
               my
               life
               .
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               any
               body
               that
               could
               asperse
               him
               ,
               but
               he
               hath
               behaved
               himself
               like
               a
               very
               honest
               ,
               civil
               Gentleman
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Where
               were
               you
               acquainted
               with
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Seys
               .
            
             
               Here
               in
               London
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Captain
             Scudamore
             stood
             up
             again
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               He
               was
               sworn
               before
               ,
               we
               desire
               he
               may
               speak
               to
               Mr.
               
               Turbervill's
               Reputation
               .
            
          
           
             
               Capt.
               Scudamore
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               known
               Mr.
               Turbervill
               for
               these
               three
               quarters
               of
               a
               year
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               acquainted
               with
               him
               in
               London
               ,
               he
               hath
               been
               much
               at
               my
               House
               ,
               and
               all
               that
               while
               I
               saw
               nothing
               in
               him
               ,
               but
               that
               he
               is
               a
               very
               honest
               Gentleman
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               we
               have
               but
               one
               matter
               more
               ,
               which
               we
               should
               have
               mentioned
               before
               ,
               but
               that
               our
               Witness
               was
               not
               come
               :
               but
               I
               hope
               we
               shall
               have
               the
               favour
               of
               some
               Honourable
               Lords
               that
               do
               know
               the
               thing
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               there
               are
               many
               more
               that
               can
               prove
               it
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               who
               is
               very
               ancient
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               ,
               may
               not
               remember
               matters
               exactly
               ,
               I
               blame
               him
               not
               ;
               Oblivion
               is
               the
               great
               infirmity
               of
               old
               age
               .
               He
               was
               pleased
               to
               say
               Yesterday
               ,
               he
               had
               so
               good
               health
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               not
               been
               lame
               ,
               I
               think
               he
               said
               for
               these
               Forty
               years
               ;
               but
               at
               last
               his
               Page
               said
               for
               the
               last
               Seven
               years
               ;
               and
               I
               shall
               confirm
               our
               proof
               to
               that
               time
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               there
               are
               some
               Honourable
               Lords
               here
               ,
               that
               have
               seen
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               that
               says
               he
               was
               not
               Lame
               in
               so
               many
               years
               very
               near
               about
               the
               time
               he
               was
               confined
               and
               imprisoned
               ,
               go
               Lame
               and
               come
               Lame
               to
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               ease
               himself
               by
               holding
               up
               his
               Legg
               sometimes
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               say
               ,
               the
               Circumstance
               is
               very
               material
               ,
               but
               only
               to
               shew
               my
               Lord
               may
               forget
               himself
               ,
               which
               I
               shall
               impute
               to
               his
               old
               Age.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               will
               acknowlede
               it
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               did
               say
               I
               had
               not
               been
               lame
               with
               the
               Gout
               so
               long
               ,
               no
               more
               I
               have
               not
               .
               I
               was
               troubled
               with
               the
               Sciatica
               many
               years
               ,
               but
               't
               is
               above
               eight
               or
               nine
               years
               since
               that
               ,
               and
               I
               took
               so
               much
               Opium
               that
               that
               and
               my
               going
               to
               the
               Bath
               cured
               me
               .
               I
               have
               often
               come
               lame
               to
               the
               House
               out
               of
               weariness
               and
               old
               Age
               ,
               but
               if
               ever
               I
               put
               my
               Foot
               upon
               a
               Stool
               for
               the
               Gout
               ,
               or
               was
               ever
               so
               lame
               as
               to
               put
               my
               Foot
               upon
               a
               Cushion
               to
               
               ease
               it
               ,
               I
               will
               admit
               what
               he
               speaks
               to
               ,
               I
               'll
               acknowledge
               thus
               much
               to
               save
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Seeing
               my
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               to
               go
               off
               from
               it
               ,
               I
               'll
               call
               no
               Witnesses
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               go
               off
               from
               nothing
               ,
               I
               was
               lame
               three
               or
               four
               years
               when
               the
               King
               came
               in
               :
               I
               went
               to
               the
               Bath
               ,
               and
               afterwards
               into
               Germany
               ,
               and
               what
               with
               Opium
               and
               the
               Bath
               I
               was
               cured
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               not
               been
               lame
               these
               eight
               or
               nine
               years
               .
               I
               have
               not
               had
               the
               Gout
               in
               my
               Foot
               for
               these
               many
               years
               ,
               and
               I
               never
               was
               so
               lame
               to
               put
               my
               Foot
               on
               a
               stool
               to
               my
               remembrance
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               think
               we
               shall
               need
               to
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               more
               with
               this
               matter
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               was
               lame
               sometime
               he
               is
               pleased
               to
               confess
               .
               One
               Witness
               says
               that
               he
               put
               his
               Foot
               on
               a
               Cushion
               ,
               my
               Lord
               does
               not
               acknowledge
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               never
               lame
               at
               Paris
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               That
               a
               man
               that
               is
               lame
               does
               sometimes
               ease
               his
               Foot
               is
               no
               hard
               Consequence
               I
               think
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               deny
               I
               was
               lame
               then
               ,
               I
               walked
               about
               the
               streets
               of
               Paris
               ,
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               not
               be
               misunderstood
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               must
               then
               desire
               under
               his
               Lordships
               favour
               ,
               if
               he
               will
               not
               acknowledge
               it
               to
               be
               within
               seven
               years
               ,
               that
               we
               may
               prove
               it
               ,
               and
               falsifie
               his
               Witness
               ,
               the
               Page
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               gone
               with
               a
               stick
               to
               the
               House
               ,
               I
               acknowledge
               it
               ,
               and
               been
               lame
               with
               weariness
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               VVinn
               .
            
             
               The
               Objection
               went
               to
               the
               Credit
               of
               our
               Witness
               ,
               and
               therefore
               we
               desire
               to
               answer
               it
               :
               my
               Lord
               was
               not
               lame
               ,
               as
               he
               says
               ,
               for
               so
               many
               years
               ,
               but
               if
               we
               prove
               that
               within
               less
               time
               my
               Lord
               hath
               been
               lame
               ,
               it
               will
               take
               off
               that
               Objection
               from
               our
               Witness
               .
               And
               we
               desire
               a
               Noble
               Lord
               or
               two
               of
               this
               House
               may
               testifie
               what
               they
               know
               .
               And
               first
               the
               Earl
               of
               Stamford
               ,
               
                 (
                 who
                 was
                 sworn
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Stamford
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               I
               have
               not
               had
               the
               honour
               to
               sit
               in
               this
               House
               much
               above
               seven
               years
               ,
               but
               long
               since
               that
               time
               I
               have
               seen
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               come
               lame
               into
               the
               House
               of
               Peers
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               all
               I
               can
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               come
               lame
               with
               a
               stick
               to
               the
               House
               I
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               desire
               that
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Lovelace
               may
               be
               sworn
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Lovelace
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Account
               that
               I
               can
               give
               your
               Lordships
               is
               this
               ,
               I
               cannot
               ascertain
               any
               time
               ,
               but
               I
               am
               sure
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               declare
               it
               upon
               my
               Honour
               ,
               and
               the
               Oath
               I
               have
               taken
               ,
               that
               I
               have
               seen
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               lame
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               within
               less
               than
               this
               seven
               years
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               he
               goes
               home
               to
               the
               Tower
               he
               may
               see
               me
               lame
               ,
               but
               never
               put
               my
               Foot
               upon
               a
               stool
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               remember
               we
               did
               call
               a
               Witness
               ,
               one
               
                 Thomas
                 Launder
              
               ,
               and
               the
               account
               we
               had
               of
               him
               was
               he
               was
               gone
               sick
               from
               the
               Bar
               ,
               he
               was
               very
               sick
               indeed
               ,
               but
               being
               just
               now
               brought
               ,
               we
               desire
               he
               may
               be
               heard
               though
               it
               be
               out
               of
               time
               ,
               we
               call
               him
               to
               the
               Reputation
               of
               Holt.
               
            
          
           
             Thomas
             Launder
             
               was
               sworn
            
             .
          
           
             
               Sir
               John
               Trevor
               .
            
             
               Do
               you
               declare
               to
               my
               Lords
               whether
               you
               know
               
                 Samuel
                 Holt
              
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               Yes
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               know
               of
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               a
               Smith
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               Reputation
               is
               he
               of
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               Indifferent
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               mean
               by
               that
               ,
               good
               or
               bad
               ?
               speak
               plainly
               .
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               A
               Drunken
               Sot
               ,
               a
               man
               that
               will
               Drink
               and
               Rant
               and
               Tear
               the
               Ground
               ,
               and
               sing
               two
               or
               three
               days
               or
               a
               week
               together
               ,
               and
               lose
               his
               time
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               I
               would
               ask
               this
               man
               whether
               he
               was
               summoned
               as
               a
               Witness
               upon
               any
               Tryal
               in
               relation
               to
               the
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               ever
               summon'd
               as
               a
               Witness
               about
               the
               Plot
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               summon'd
               concerning
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Tryal
               ,
               and
               I
               came
               up
               with
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               people
               as
               an
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Had
               you
               any
               offer
               of
               money
               ,
               and
               what
               sum
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               Acquaint
               my
               Lords
               with
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               offered
               it
               you
               ?
               and
               when
               ?
               and
               for
               what
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               For
               what
               was
               that
               money
               offered
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               The
               money
               was
               not
               absolutely
               offered
               me
               ,
               but
               I
               was
               to
               have
               an
               Horse
               to
               ride
               on
               ,
               and
               money
               in
               my
               Pocket
               if
               I
               could
               take
               off
               
                 James
                 Ansel
              
               ,
               Dugdale's
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               came
               and
               offered
               it
               to
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               sent
               for
               by
               Mr.
               Fox
               to
               Tixal
               Hall
               ,
               and
               there
               was
               my
               old
               Lords
               Brother
               for
               one
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               
                 Thomas
                 Aston
              
               that
               is
               this
               young
               Lords
               Brother
               ,
               and
               Mr.
               
                 Francis
                 Aston
              
               who
               is
               my
               Lords
               eldest
               Son
               were
               in
               a
               Room
               together
               ,
               and
               this
               
                 Thomas
                 Sawyer
              
               that
               was
               here
               ,
               and
               more
               were
               in
               the
               Room
               when
               they
               promised
               all
               these
               things
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               would
               do
               what
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               If
               I
               would
               take
               my
               Oath
               that
               this
               
                 James
                 Ansell
              
               was
               a
               Perjured
               Rogue
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               all
               they
               make
               you
               this
               promise
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Launder
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Fotey
               .
            
             
               It
               was
               a
               Consult
               together
               about
               taking
               off
               the
               Evidence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will
               ▪
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               have
               done
               with
               our
               .
               Witnesses
               ,
               if
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               please
               to
               conclude
               we
               are
               ready
               to
               do
               so
               too
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               What
               should
               I
               conclude
               ?
               about
               those
               Witnesses
               you
               have
               now
               brought
               in
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               W.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               may
               please
               to
               conclude
               your
               Evidence
               ,
               we
               are
               ready
               to
               conclude
               on
               our
               part
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               These
               new
               Witnesses
               ,
               must
               I
               say
               what
               I
               can
               say
               against
               them
               presently
               ?
               I
               cannot
               do
               it
               ,
               I
               know
               very
               few
               of
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               any
               Witnesses
               here
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               possibly
               have
               any
               .
               For
               I
               did
               not
               know
               nor
               guess
               these
               people
               would
               be
               brought
               against
               me
               .
               They
               are
               persons
               I
               know
               nothing
               of
               .
               Ansell
               I
               have
               seen
               four
               or
               five
               times
               ,
               I
               may
               have
               seen
               the
               rest
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               know
               them
               to
               be
               able
               to
               give
               an
               accompt
               of
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               If
               you
               have
               any
               Witnesses
               here
               to
               support
               the
               credit
               of
               your
               own
               Witnesses
               that
               have
               been
               impeached
               ,
               you
               may
               call
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               none
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               recapitulate
               the
               material
               parts
               of
               your
               Defence
               ,
               that
               the
               Process
               may
               be
               closed
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               very
               unready
               for
               it
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
               Let
               me
               ask
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               a
               Question
               ,
               if
               I
               must
               have
               no
               more
               time
               .
            
          
           
             Mr.
             Whitby
             stood
             up
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               There
               he
               is
               ,
               what
               would
               your
               Lordship
               have
               with
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               know
               the
               Gentleman
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               .
            
             
               Nor
               I
               your
               Lordship
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               ask
               him
               upon
               the
               Oath
               he
               hath
               taken
               ,
               I
               know
               he
               will
               speak
               truth
               ,
               whether
               he
               did
               not
               some
               years
               ago
               tell
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               that
               is
               dead
               ,
               this
               Lord's
               Father
               ,
               That
               Dugdale
               was
               a
               Knave
               ,
               and
               persuaded
               him
               to
               turn
               him
               away
               ,
               (
               I
               say
               not
               it
               is
               true
               ,
               but
               I
               have
               heard
               so
               )
               and
               desired
               him
               to
               tell
               his
               Son
               so
               ,
               that
               he
               might
               quit
               himself
               of
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               about
               three
               or
               four
               years
               ago
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               that
               is
               dead
               (
               I
               believe
               it
               may
               be
               two
               years
               last
               April
               )
               sent
               for
               me
               to
               dine
               with
               him
               ,
               and
               when
               I
               came
               thither
               ,
               he
               told
               me
               ,
               says
               he
               ,
               Mr.
               VVhitby
               I
               have
               sent
               to
               you
               to
               acquaint
               you
               with
               a
               thing
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               believe
               it
               before
               I
               tell
               it
               you
               .
               What
               is
               it
               ,
               said
               I
               ?
               said
               he
               ,
               
                 Stephen
                 Dugdale
              
               hath
               acquainted
               me
               ,
               that
               you
               have
               employed
               persons
               upon
               the
               Water
               to
               destroy
               my
               Water
               ;
               said
               I
               ,
               my
               Lord
               I
               never
               endeavoured
               it
               ;
               he
               said
               ,
               he
               did
               believe
               me
               ;
               then
               I
               told
               my
               Lord
               ;
               said
               I
               ,
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               is
               a
               dishonour
               to
               the
               Family
               ,
               upon
               this
               accompt
               ,
               because
               many
               times
               people
               come
               for
               money
               and
               he
               will
               not
               let
               them
               have
               it
               ,
               but
               puts
               them
               off
               and
               makes
               them
               complain
               ;
               says
               my
               Lord
               ,
               my
               Son
               is
               now
               at
               Standall
               ,
               but
               I
               will
               tell
               him
               as
               soon
               as
               he
               
               comes
               home
               ,
               and
               if
               you
               will
               bring
               the
               persons
               that
               have
               waited
               so
               long
               for
               their
               money
               ,
               and
               made
               so
               many
               journeys
               ,
               you
               shall
               hear
               what
               he
               will
               say
               to
               it
               .
               Within
               a
               while
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               that
               now
               is
               ,
               came
               down
               ,
               and
               I
               went
               thither
               to
               see
               what
               became
               of
               it
               .
               And
               I
               went
               to
               the
               
                 B●wling
                 .
                 Green
              
               where
               my
               Lord
               and
               his
               Son
               were
               ;
               but
               my
               old
               Lord
               said
               nothing
               to
               me
               of
               it
               ,
               nor
               his
               Son
               neither
               .
               Within
               a
               few
               days
               my
               old
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Gentleman
               came
               down
               to
               my
               House
               (
               one
               Mr.
               
                 Ashley
                 ,
              
               )
               said
               I
               ,
               I
               wonder
               whether
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               hath
               acquainted
               his
               Son
               with
               what
               I
               told
               him
               ;
               says
               he
               ,
               he
               hath
               ,
               but
               it
               signifies
               nothing
               ,
               for
               he
               will
               hear
               nothing
               against
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               .
               This
               I
               speak
               upon
               my
               Oath
               ,
               't
               is
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               sees
               what
               this
               Gentlemans
               Opinion
               was
               of
               Dugdale
               then
               ,
               he
               would
               hear
               nothing
               against
               him
               .
               Will
               your
               Lordship
               conclude
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               mighty
               unready
               ,
               and
               know
               not
               which
               way
               to
               turn
               my self
               ,
               upon
               those
               new
               things
               they
               have
               brought
               ,
               for
               I
               knew
               nothing
               of
               it
               ,
               nor
               expected
               any
               such
               thing
               .
               But
               will
               you
               be
               pleased
               that
               I
               may
               call
               
                 Simon
                 Wright
              
               again
               .
            
          
           
             (
             VVho
             stood
             up
             .
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               would
               your
               Lordship
               have
               with
               him
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               have
               nothing
               to
               say
               to
               him
               ,
               but
               to
               desire
               him
               to
               seé
               this
               Letter
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               of
               his
               own
               Writing
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Look
               upon
               that
               Paper
               ,
               shew
               it
               him
               ,
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew
               ,
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               hand
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Wright
               .
            
             
               This
               is
               my
               hand
               .
               'T
               is
               part
               of
               that
               I
               was
               hired
               to
               do
               .
               There
               is
               another
               of
               a
               great
               deal
               more
               consequence
               than
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Deliver
               it
               in
               ,
               and
               read
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Clerk.
               
            
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       June
                       the
                       14.
                       1680.
                       
                    
                  
                   
                     Sir
                     ,
                  
                
                 
                   I
                   Can
                   I
                   bless
                   God
                   with
                   a
                   safe
                   Conscience
                   declare
                   upon
                   Oath
                   ,
                   that
                   Mr.
                   Dugdale
                   hath
                   been
                   unkind
                   to
                   me
                   in
                   taking
                   his
                   opportunity
                   of
                   my
                   Poverty
                   by
                   reason
                   of
                   a
                   private
                   meeting
                   of
                   us
                   two
                   by
                   his
                   appointment
                   ,
                   he
                   did
                   that
                   time
                   proffer
                   if
                   I
                   would
                   swear
                   against
                   You
                   and
                   Mr.
                   Gerard
                   ,
                   he
                   would
                   protect
                   me
                   as
                   one
                   of
                   the
                   King's
                   Evidence
                   ,
                   and
                   I
                   should
                   not
                   want
                   Money
                   ;
                   and
                   in
                   the
                   Hall
                   at
                   Westminster
                   he
                   said
                   ,
                   if
                   I
                   did
                   discover
                   it
                   that
                   day
                   at
                   Mrs.
                   
                   Price's
                   Tryal
                   he
                   would
                   set
                   me
                   in
                   the
                   Pillory
                   :
                   This
                   I
                   have
                   owned
                   to
                   his
                   face
                   ,
                   and
                   shall
                   not
                   go
                   back
                   from
                   this
                   and
                   more
                   ,
                   neither
                   for
                   fear
                   nor
                   favour
                   .
                   So
                   I
                   rest
                   as
                   you
                   shall
                   find
                   by
                   your
                   Servant
                   ,
                
                 
                   
                     Sim.
                     Wright
                     .
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               this
               your
               hand
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               Yes
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               I
               was
               advised
               word
               for
               word
               to
               write
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Who
               pen'd
               this
               for
               you
               ?
               Did
               you
               pen
               it
               your self
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               they
               penn'd
               it
               ,
               and
               a
               great
               while
               I
               would
               not
               set
               my
               hand
               to
               it
               ,
               but
               
                 Jermin
                 Drayton
              
               said
               I
               need
               not
               fear
               ,
               I
               was
               not
               to
               swear
               against
               the
               King
               ,
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               is
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               He
               is
               Butler
               to
               Mr.
               Heveningham
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               See
               what
               you
               have
               under
               his
               hand
               ,
               I
               have
               no
               more
               to
               say
               to
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               But
               by
               their
               perswasion
               at
               last
               I
               did
               wright
               it
               ,
               and
               a
               great
               deal
               more
               then
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               to
               ask
               Mr.
               VVright
               whether
               they
               would
               have
               had
               him
               swore
               this
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Were
               you
               desired
               to
               swear
               this
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               they
               never
               put
               me
               to
               swear
               it
               ;
               for
               they
               told
               me
               I
               was
               not
               to
               swear
               against
               the
               King
               ;
               but
               if
               I
               would
               be
               so
               kind
               to
               make
               an
               Affidavit
               before
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ,
               I
               might
               then
               go
               where
               I
               would
               into
               the
               Country
               ,
               and
               I
               should
               have
               money
               to
               bear
               my
               charges
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVilliam
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Who
               would
               have
               had
               you
               swear
               it
               before
               a
               Justice
               of
               Peace
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Wright
               .
            
             
               
                 Jermin
                 Drayton
              
               and
               Mr.
               Longmore
               ,
               where
               he
               is
               I
               can't
               tell
               ,
               but
               he
               told
               me
               that
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               was
               better
               able
               to
               perform
               than
               Dugdale
               was
               to
               promise
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               The
               same
               thing
               that
               was
               done
               by
               Redding
               ,
               he
               was
               convicted
               for
               it
               ,
               and
               stood
               in
               the
               Pillory
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               whether
               he
               was
               ever
               with
               Sir
               
                 James
                 Symons
              
               himself
               ,
               and
               what
               he
               offered
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Wright
               .
            
             
               I
               was
               once
               with
               him
               at
               the
               
                 Kings
                 Bench
              
               ,
               I
               dined
               there
               :
               after
               I
               had
               written
               the
               Paper
               that
               was
               read
               ,
               he
               gave
               me
               20
               s.
               and
               said
               ,
               he
               hoped
               I
               would
               not
               go
               off
               from
               what
               I
               had
               said
               ,
               and
               he
               hoped
               I
               was
               sensible
               his
               gratuity
               would
               not
               be
               wanting
               ,
               and
               was
               sorry
               he
               had
               not
               occasion
               to
               use
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               have
               done
               with
               him
               ;
               I
               only
               observe
               that
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               pleased
               to
               produce
               this
               Paper
               ;
               he
               was
               Master
               of
               it
               ,
               and
               had
               it
               in
               his
               keeping
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               VVinnington
               .
            
             
               Wright
               says
               ,
               there
               is
               another
               Paper
               of
               more
               Consequence
               ;
               I
               wish
               his
               Lordship
               would
               produce
               that
               also
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               did
               not
               know
               of
               this
               till
               just
               now
               it
               was
               delivered
               into
               my
               hands
               .
               Did
               you
               see
               Mr.
               Longmore
               before
               this
               Letter
               was
               writ
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVright
               .
            
             
               Both
               before
               and
               after
               ,
               to
               the
               best
               of
               my
               remembrance
               ,
               and
               at
               the
               time
               when
               Sir
               
               James's
               Tryal
               should
               have
               been
               ,
               at
               the
               Sign
               of
               the
               Crown
               in
               Kings-street
               in
               Bloomsbury
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               will
               you
               conclude
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               Pardon
               ;
               I
               do
               not
               know
               how
               really
               to
               go
               about
               it
               to
               night
               .
               I
               will
               obey
               your
               Commands
               ,
               though
               I
               fall
               down
               at
               the
               Bar.
               I
               protest
               before
               God
               ,
               I
               was
               all
               night
               so
               ill
               of
               the
               Cramp
               ,
               that
               I
               had
               no
               repose
               .
               If
               you
               will
               have
               me
               go
               on
               ,
               I
               will
               ,
               if
               you
               will
               give
               me
               but
               a
               little
               time
               to
               recollect
               my self
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               God
               forbid
               ,
               when
               your
               Lordship
               is
               to
               speak
               upon
               so
               great
               a
               Concern
               ,
               and
               a
               matter
               of
               that
               importance
               as
               this
               is
               to
               you
               ,
               you
               should
               be
               put
               at
               the
               end
               of
               the
               day
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               midst
               of
               all
               your
               thoughts
               ,
               to
               sum
               up
               your
               Evidence
               .
               I
               do
               believe
               ,
               if
               you
               do
               desire
               time
               till
               to
               Morrow
               ,
               my
               Lords
               will
               give
               it
               you
               :
               And
               if
               you
               would
               have
               me
               move
               my
               Lords
               in
               it
               ,
               I
               will.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               One
               word
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               —
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVilliam
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               do
               not
               oppose
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               one
               thing
               ,
               I
               am
               very
               ignorant
               in
               this
               matter
               ,
               and
               do
               not
               understand
               it
               ;
               I
               would
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               directons
               to
               know
               in
               what
               method
               I
               must
               proceed
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               is
               to
               proceed
               thus
               if
               you
               please
               ;
               Your
               Lordship
               is
               to
               recollect
               and
               recapitulate
               all
               the
               Proofs
               you
               have
               made
               ;
               and
               you
               are
               to
               enforce
               them
               as
               well
               as
               you
               can
               ,
               and
               make
               such
               Observations
               upon
               them
               as
               are
               for
               your
               own
               advantage
               :
               and
               this
               your
               Lordship
               must
               do
               for
               the
               Fact
               :
               If
               there
               remain
               a
               doubt
               in
               Law
               which
               you
               may
               have
               occasion
               to
               move
               ,
               Counsel
               may
               be
               demanded
               ;
               and
               if
               it
               be
               considerable
               and
               worthy
               of
               debate
               ,
               you
               may
               have
               Counsel
               heard
               to
               speak
               to
               it
               .
               But
               the
               Process
               is
               closed
               ,
               no
               more
               Witnesses
               are
               to
               be
               heard
               :
               There
               remains
               only
               Observations
               upon
               the
               Fact
               or
               Law
               to
               be
               made
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Are
               no
               more
               Witnesses
               to
               be
               heard
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               I
               think
               not
               :
               't
               is
               agreed
               on
               both
               sides
               ,
               all
               is
               done
               :
               But
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               have
               your
               Lordship
               to
               understand
               me
               so
               ,
               that
               if
               so
               be
               you
               have
               yet
               any
               material
               Evidence
               ,
               that
               you
               think
               it
               does
               concern
               you
               to
               produce
               ,
               and
               you
               have
               it
               ready
               to
               Morrow
               ,
               before
               you
               sum
               up
               the
               Evidence
               ;
               I
               believe
               then
               ,
               if
               you
               move
               my
               Lords
               ,
               they
               will
               let
               it
               be
               heard
               :
               Otherwise
               I
               think
               here
               is
               an
               end
               of
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               the
               Paper
               I
               gave
               in
               ,
               may
               be
               returned
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               But
               in
               order
               to
               this
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               does
               think
               ,
               you
               shall
               use
               or
               produce
               any
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               it
               would
               be
               of
               importance
               that
               you
               would
               name
               them
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               will
               go
               hunt
               for
               none
               ;
               and
               I
               think
               I
               shall
               have
               none
               :
               only
               one
               thing
               I
               must
               beg
               your
               pardon
               in
               ;
               which
               is
               the
               only
               thing
               I
               must
               have
               Witnesses
               to
               ,
               to
               answer
               what
               they
               have
               said
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               would
               not
               come
               to
               accompt
               .
               My
               Witnesses
               are
               very
               near
               me
               ,
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               ,
               some
               in
               the
               Tower
               ,
               and
               one
               Mr.
               Birch
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               bring
               those
               to
               morrow
               that
               you
               name
               to
               night
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               please
               that
               I
               may
               have
               that
               Paper
               ,
               
               Wright's
               Letter
               .
            
          
           
             
               E.
               of
               Shaftsbury
               .
            
             
               
                 My
                 Lord
                 Steward
              
               ,
               I
               desire
               that
               Letter
               may
               be
               kept
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               a
               Paper
               that
               was
               given
               me
               ,
               and
               I
               would
               return
               it
               :
               if
               you
               won't
               allow
               me
               it
               ,
               I
               can't
               help
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               desired
               it
               may
               remain
               where
               it
               is
               :
               But
               your
               Lordship
               may
               have
               a
               Copy
               if
               you
               please
               ,
               attested
               by
               the
               Clerk.
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               to
               Adjourn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               This
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               .
            
             
               Then
               the
               Lords
               withdrew
               in
               their
               Order
               ,
               and
               the
               Committee
               of
               Commons
               returned
               to
               their
               House
               ,
               where
               
                 Mr.
                 Speaker
              
               resumed
               the
               Chair
               .
            
             
               A
               Message
               was
               sent
               from
               the
               Lords
               by
               Sir
               
                 Timothy
                 Baldwin
              
               and
               Sir
               
                 Samuel
                 Clark.
              
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               ,
            
             
               The
               Lords
               have
               sent
               us
               to
               acquaint
               this
               House
               ,
               That
               they
               have
               Ordered
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               to
               be
               brought
               to
               his
               Tryal
               at
               the
               Bar
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               to
               Morrow
               morning
               at
               Ten
               of
               the
               Clock
               .
            
          
           
             The
             Commons
             Adjourned
             to
             Eight
             of
             the
             Clock
             the
             next
             Morning
             .
          
        
         
           
             The
             Fifth
             Day
             .
          
           
             
               Saturday
               ,
               December
            
             4.
             1680.
             
          
           
             ABout
             the
             hour
             of
             Ten
             in
             the
             Morning
             ,
             the
             Lords
             Adjourned
             into
             VVestminster-Hall
             ,
             going
             thither
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             into
             the
             Court
             there
             erected
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Speaker
             having
             left
             the
             Chair
             ,
             the
             Commons
             were
             seated
             as
             before
             .
          
           
             The
             Court
             being
             sat
             ,
             Proclamation
             for
             silence
             was
             made
             ,
             and
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             commanded
             to
             bring
             his
             Prisoner
             to
             the
             Bar
             ,
             which
             being
             done
             ,
             the
             Lord
             High
             Steward
             began
             as
             followeth
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               says
               your
               Lordship
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ?
               My
               Lords
               are
               pepared
               to
               hear
               what
               your
               Lordship
               can
               say
               in
               the
               summing
               up
               of
               your
               Defence
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               must
               needs
               say
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               That
               you
               have
               given
               me
               Favour
               and
               Time
               all
               that
               I
               could
               demand
               .
               But
               I
               am
               a
               very
               unfortunate
               man
               in
               many
               things
               ,
               unfortunate
               in
               being
               brought
               hither
               upon
               this
               Accompt
               ,
               and
               truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               very
               unfortunate
               ,
               That
               I
               had
               not
               yesterday
               ,
               before
               I
               went
               away
               ,
               the
               Names
               of
               some
               material
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               some
               that
               I
               did
               not
               know
               of
               ,
               till
               within
               this
               half
               quarter
               of
               an
               hour
               ;
               I
               humbly
               offer
               this
               to
               your
               Lordships
               consideration
               as
               the
               state
               of
               my
               Case
               .
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               acknowledge
               I
               was
               bound
               up
               to
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               ,
               and
               some
               others
               that
               I
               named
               ,
               but
               I
               humbly
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               this
               ,
               That
               I
               am
               Informed
               of
               some
               material
               Witnesses
               more
               this
               morning
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Are
               the
               Witnesses
               you
               speak
               of
               ,
               any
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               you
               named
               last
               night
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               'T
               is
               one
               of
               my
               Lords
               ,
               a
               Peer
               of
               this
               House
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               How
               many
               more
               have
               you
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Five
               or
               six
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               To
               what
               Point
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               To
               discredit
               the
               Witnesses
               that
               have
               been
               brought
               against
               me
               ,
               both
               some
               of
               those
               that
               have
               discredited
               mine
               ,
               and
               some
               that
               have
               sworn
               against
               me
               particularly
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               There
               is
               no
               End
               of
               this
               way
               of
               proceeding
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               profess
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               God
               ,
               I
               do
               it
               not
               for
               delay
               ,
               nor
               did
               I
               know
               of
               them
               then
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               to
               it
               Gentlemen
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               afraid
               this
               proceeding
               at
               this
               rate
               will
               never
               have
               an
               end
               .
               If
               his
               Lordship
               have
               any
               Witnesses
               to
               any
               material
               part
               of
               his
               Defence
               ,
               though
               he
               hath
               bound
               himself
               up
               ,
               I
               should
               not
               be
               against
               hearing
               of
               them
               .
               But
               if
               his
               new
               Witnesses
               are
               only
               to
               the
               Reputation
               of
               our
               Witnesses
               ,
               then
               perhaps
               we
               must
               have
               some
               other
               Witnesses
               brought
               to
               discredit
               his
               ,
               and
               we
               not
               knowing
               who
               these
               new
               Witnesses
               of
               his
               would
               be
               ,
               may
               need
               perhaps
               another
               day
               to
               bring
               Testimony
               against
               them
               ,
               so
               that
               I
               know
               not
               when
               the
               matter
               can
               have
               an
               end
               .
               Your
               Lordships
               know
               ,
               there
               is
               a
               Rule
               in
               the
               Civil
               Law
               ,
               
                 In
                 testem
                 ,
                 testes
                 ,
                 &
                 in
                 hos
                 ,
                 sed
                 non
                 datur
                 ultra
              
               ;
               And
               I
               hope
               beyond
               that
               you
               will
               not
               go
               ;
               Truly
               ,
               for
               my
               own
               part
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               expect
               any
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               but
               those
               he
               was
               pleased
               to
               name
               last
               night
               ,
               in
               relation
               to
               the
               matters
               of
               Accompt
               ;
               If
               he
               please
               to
               call
               them
               ,
               we
               shall
               hear
               them
               ;
               but
               for
               any
               other
               ,
               considering
               it
               would
               prolong
               the
               Tryal
               to
               another
               day
               ,
               and
               this
               Cause
               hath
               had
               four
               days
               already
               for
               Hearing
               ,
               we
               hope
               they
               shall
               not
               be
               admitted
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               profess
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               if
               I
               were
               alone
               concerned
               in
               it
               ,
               I
               should
               not
               have
               moved
               it
               ,
               but
               when
               I
               consider
               my
               Wife
               and
               Family
               are
               concerned
               ,
               I
               hold
               my self
               bound
               by
               the
               Duty
               I
               owe
               to
               God
               and
               them
               ,
               to
               propose
               this
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ;
               I
               am
               pressed
               to
               it
               by
               my
               Wife
               just
               now
               ,
               since
               the
               House
               
               came
               in
               .
               I
               protest
               before
               God
               ,
               for
               my self
               ,
               I
               can
               look
               Death
               in
               the
               face
               without
               being
               afraid
               ,
               but
               when
               I
               consider
               in
               what
               condition
               I
               shall
               leave
               my
               Wife
               and
               Family
               ,
               it
               moves
               me
               .
               
                 (
                 Then
                 he
                 wept
                 .
                 )
              
            
             
               I
               am
               not
               concerned
               at
               it
               for
               my
               own
               part
               ,
               for
               I
               know
               I
               am
               innocent
               ,
               but
               I
               cannot
               forbear
               Tears
               when
               I
               consider
               them
               ;
               't
               is
               not
               for
               my self
               ,
               I
               take
               God
               Almighty
               to
               witness
               that
               I
               weep
               ,
               I
               could
               be
               content
               to
               speak
               a
               few
               words
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               submit
               to
               your
               Judgment
               ,
               and
               take
               my
               death
               ,
               if
               you
               decree
               me
               to
               it
               ,
               and
               not
               defer
               it
               till
               Munday
               ;
               But
               I
               cannot
               forbear
               shewing
               my
               Grief
               when
               I
               consider
               my
               Wife
               and
               Children
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Pray
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ,
               consider
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               not
               a
               saving
               of
               time
               to
               let
               my
               Lord
               examine
               his
               Witnesses
               ,
               else
               my
               Lords
               must
               withdraw
               to
               consider
               of
               his
               desire
               ;
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               in
               the
               practice
               of
               Chancery
               we
               do
               examine
               to
               the
               credit
               of
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               to
               their
               credit
               ,
               but
               no
               further
               ,
               but
               what
               my
               Lords
               will
               do
               in
               this
               Case
               I
               know
               not
               till
               they
               are
               withdrawn
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               have
               that
               Opinion
               of
               our
               own
               Proofs
               ,
               and
               are
               so
               desirous
               of
               an
               End
               of
               these
               Proceedings
               ,
               that
               rather
               than
               we
               will
               give
               your
               Lordships
               the
               trouble
               to
               withdraw
               ,
               if
               my
               Lord
               will
               please
               now
               to
               tell
               us
               the
               number
               and
               names
               of
               his
               Witnesses
               ,
               we
               shall
               not
               oppose
               their
               being
               heard
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fr.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               one
               word
               further
               ;
               We
               know
               well
               of
               what
               Concern
               this
               is
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               no
               body
               desires
               to
               have
               him
               crampt
               in
               his
               Evidence
               .
               The
               Objection
               did
               lie
               fair
               on
               our
               side
               ,
               it
               looking
               like
               a
               designed
               delay
               ,
               and
               yet
               we
               are
               willing
               to
               comply
               with
               this
               Reservation
               ,
               that
               if
               there
               should
               be
               any
               such
               Witnesses
               produced
               now
               ,
               as
               may
               require
               an
               Answer
               ,
               that
               we
               may
               not
               be
               foreclosed
               of
               advising
               with
               one
               another
               about
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               No
               ,
               by
               no
               means
               .
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               your
               desire
               is
               consented
               unto
               upon
               these
               Terms
               ,
               That
               your
               Lordship
               will
               now
               name
               the
               persons
               and
               number
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               you
               will
               call
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Hambden
               .
            
             
               And
               the
               Points
               to
               which
               you
               will
               call
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               humbly
               thank
               your
               Lordships
               for
               the
               favour
               ,
               but
               it
               is
               an
               impossibility
               for
               me
               to
               do
               it
               :
               If
               your
               Lordships
               will
               give
               me
               a
               quarter
               of
               an
               hours
               time
               ,
               I
               will
               name
               them
               ,
               I
               cannot
               name
               some
               of
               them
               ,
               one
               is
               my
               Lord
               Ferrers
               ,
               another
               is
               one
               Dr.
               Taylor
               ,
               Dr.
               Watson
               ,
               Dr.
               Elliot
               ,
               and
               one
               
                 William
                 Dale
              
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Now
               to
               what
               Points
               will
               your
               Lordship
               call
               these
               Witnesses
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Ferrers
               is
               to
               speak
               his
               knowledge
               of
               Southall
               the
               Coroner
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               as
               to
               Dugdale
               ,
               my
               Lord
               knows
               that
               person
               Dr.
               VVatson
               ,
               and
               they
               are
               to
               invalidate
               the
               Testimony
               of
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               and
               there
               is
               another
               mans
               Name
               ,
               I
               forget
               what
               it
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               To
               what
               Point
               is
               he
               to
               be
               a
               Witness
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               to
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               and
               the
               Evidence
               against
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               So
               there
               will
               be
               pretences
               made
               every
               moment
               of
               some
               new
               Witness
               to
               put
               off
               this
               Cause
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Under
               your
               Lordships
               favour
               ,
               I
               scorn
               to
               make
               any
               delay
               .
               If
               you
               think
               this
               may
               not
               be
               material
               ,
               or
               not
               fit
               to
               be
               done
               ,
               I
               will
               quit
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Go
               on
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordships
               be
               pleased
               to
               begin
               with
               my
               Lord
               
                 Ferrer
                 s
              
               
                 (
                 who
                 stood
                 up
                 in
                 his
                 place
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Ferrers
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               is
               called
               upon
               by
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               you
               being
               a
               Witness
               for
               the
               Prisoner
               ,
               and
               against
               the
               King
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               is
               not
               to
               be
               sworn
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Ferrers
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               what
               I
               have
               to
               say
               concerning
               that
               person
               my
               Lord
               named
               ,
               Southall
               ,
               is
               only
               upon
               Hear-say
               ,
               and
               upon
               the
               Reputation
               he
               hath
               in
               the
               Countrey
               ;
               for
               I
               have
               no
               acquaintance
               with
               him
               ,
               nor
               do
               know
               him
               at
               all
               :
               But
               the
               Reputation
               that
               hath
               been
               given
               me
               of
               him
               in
               the
               Countrey
               ,
               is
               ,
               That
               he
               hath
               been
               a
               very
               active
               man
               in
               the
               late
               times
               against
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               is
               counted
               to
               be
               a
               very
               pernicious
               man
               against
               the
               Government
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Call
               Dr.
               Taylor
               .
            
          
           
             
               Servant
               .
            
             
               I
               know
               not
               where
               he
               is
               ,
               he
               can't
               be
               found
               at
               present
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Then
               call
               
                 VVilliam
                 Dale
              
               in
               the
               mean
               time
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               This
               same
               Southall
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               ,
               the
               other
               man
               that
               drew
               up
               the
               Affidavit
               ,
               that
               is
               Feake
               ,
               I
               know
               ,
               he
               was
               named
               by
               Southall
               to
               joyn
               with
               him
               in
               the
               Examination
               ,
               I
               can
               tell
               what
               he
               was
               ,
               I
               can
               prove
               that
               he
               is
               an
               Attorney
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               Mayor
               of
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               proclaimed
               the
               King
               Traytor
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               was
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               One
               that
               drew
               up
               the
               Affidavit
               of
               
                 Dugdale
                 ,
                 Feake
              
               mentioned
               by
               Southall
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Who
               is
               your
               next
               Witness
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               One
               VVilliam
               Dale
               
                 (
                 who
                 being
                 called
                 appeared
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               is
               your
               Name
               ?
            
          
           
             
               VVitness
               .
            
             
               VVilliam
               Dale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               What
               do
               you
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               About
               Dugdale
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               what
               he
               knows
               about
               his
               offering
               him
               any
               money
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               VVill.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               We
               desire
               to
               know
               where
               he
               lives
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dale
               .
            
             
               Dugdale
               never
               offered
               me
               any
               money
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Where
               do
               you
               live
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dale
               .
            
             
               At
               Owseley-bridge
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Pray
               ask
               him
               whether
               Dugdale
               persuaded
               him
               to
               swear
               against
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               something
               he
               knew
               not
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Did
               Dugdale
               ever
               hire
               you
               to
               swear
               against
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dale
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               he
               never
               h●red
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Stew.
               
            
             
               Do
               you
               know
               that
               he
               ever
               hired
               any
               body
               else
               to
               swear
               false
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Dale
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               most
               humbly
               thank
               your
               Lordships
               for
               your
               favour
               in
               giving
               me
               the
               liberty
               of
               examining
               these
               other
               Witnesses
               ,
               I
               shall
               trouble
               you
               no
               further
               ,
               nor
               give
               no
               more
               Evidence
               ,
               only
               one
               Witness
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               trouble
               you
               no
               further
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               to
               this
               point
               ,
               whether
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               did
               refuse
               to
               come
               to
               accompt
               with
               Dugdale
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Come
               ,
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               ,
               do
               you
               know
               any
               thing
               about
               Accompts
               between
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               and
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               last
               Summer
               was
               12
               month
               Dugdale
               came
               to
               the
               Tower
               ,
               but
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               would
               not
               speak
               with
               him
               ,
               unless
               I
               were
               by
               ;
               so
               they
               brought
               him
               to
               my
               Lodging
               ,
               and
               he
               shewed
               me
               the
               Books
               of
               Accompts
               ,
               Itold
               them
               I
               did
               not
               understand
               Accompts
               ,
               but
               if
               they
               would
               have
               me
               be
               by
               I
               would
               get
               some
               body
               to
               be
               present
               that
               did
               ,
               and
               have
               them
               adjusted
               .
               Mr.
               Dugdale
               said
               he
               whould
               come
               another
               time
               ,
               but
               from
               that
               time
               to
               this
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               trouble
               you
               with
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               now
               done
               my
               Evidence
               .
               I
               shall
               as
               well
               as
               my
               weak
               memory
               and
               old
               Age
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               sum
               it
               up
               ,
               something
               (
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               )
               of
               the
               Evidence
               given
               against
               me
               ,
               and
               for
               me
               .
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               able
               to
               do
               it
               very
               imperfectly
               for
               want
               of
               understanding
               ,
               and
               truly
               for
               want
               of
               sleep
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               doubt
               ,
               but
               that
               according
               to
               the
               Law
               ,
               as
               I
               am
               informed
               it
               is
               ,
               since
               I
               can
               have
               no
               Counsel
               in
               matter
               of
               Fact
               ,
               or
               to
               advise
               me
               in
               any
               thing
               of
               that
               nature
               ,
               yet
               I
               am
               also
               informed
               by
               the
               Law
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               who
               are
               my
               Judges
               ,
               are
               my
               Counsel
               .
               And
               I
               do
               not
               doubt
               but
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               when
               you
               take
               it
               into
               consideration
               ,
               will
               supply
               any
               defects
               which
               I
               shall
               commit
               ,
               which
               I
               believe
               will
               be
               many
               ,
               I
               shall
               spend
               your
               Lordships
               time
               as
               little
               as
               I
               can
               ,
               though
               these
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               believe
               I
               desire
               to
               protract
               it
               ,
               yet
               I
               profess
               before
               God
               I
               do
               not
               .
               And
               I
               declare
               before
               them
               all
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               am
               so
               satisfied
               of
               my
               own
               Innocency
               that
               I
               would
               never
               beg
               a
               moments
               time
               of
               delay
               ;
               and
               I
               know
               your
               Lordships
               will
               take
               care
               of
               the
               Life
               of
               the
               meanest
               Subject
               ;
               and
               though
               I
               have
               had
               the
               honour
               to
               sit
               among
               your
               Lordships
               as
               a
               Peer
               ,
               yet
               I
               ask
               not
               for
               your
               favour
               ,
               but
               with
               your
               justice
               too
               ;
               I
               shall
               therefore
               sum
               up
               my
               defence
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               .
               For
               the
               first
               Witness
               Dugdale
               he
               swore
               I
               was
               at
               a
               Consult
               at
               Tixal
               in
               the
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               
                 September
                 ,
                 I
              
               have
               sufficiently
               proved
               that
               in
               all
               
                 August
                 I
              
               was
               not
               there
               ,
               nor
               till
               the
               12.
               of
               
                 September
                 .
                 I
              
               have
               proved
               that
               his
               first
               Oath
               was
               ,
               I
               was
               there
               in
               August
               ,
               and
               a
               man
               that
               will
               swear
               false
               in
               one
               thing
               is
               not
               to
               be
               credited
               in
               any
               ▪
               I
               have
               made
               it
               appear
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               upon
               the
               20.
               of
               September
               ,
               when
               he
               says
               he
               was
               in
               my
               Chamber
               and
               I
               sent
               the
               Page
               to
               call
               him
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               false
               ,
               it
               was
               only
               he
               desired
               he
               might
               come
               to
               me
               to
               get
               leave
               that
               he
               might
               go
               to
               the
               Race
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Aston
               being
               angry
               with
               him
               for
               it
               .
               This
               I
               conceive
               is
               proved
               sufficiently
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               my
               Man
               and
               my
               Boy
               ,
               and
               this
               I
               think
               I
               have
               
               proved
               as
               positively
               as
               can
               be
               done
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               't
               is
               true
               ,
               't
               is
               objected
               against
               me
               ,
               That
               I
               had
               said
               Dugdale
               was
               never
               seen
               alone
               with
               me
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               't
               is
               true
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               true
               Ansell
               swears
               he
               brought
               a
               Footman
               to
               me
               ,
               but
               he
               swears
               it
               was
               in
               the
               Morning
               when
               it
               was
               at
               Supper
               ,
               and
               does
               not
               say
               that
               he
               was
               alone
               with
               me
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Dugdale
               swore
               that
               he
               told
               Mr.
               Philips
               and
               Mr.
               Sambidge
               of
               the
               death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               on
               the
               Munday
               ,
               some
               swore
               he
               said
               it
               was
               on
               the
               Tuesday
               ,
               but
               they
               deny
               that
               ever
               he
               told
               it
               them
               ,
               and
               so
               he
               is
               forsworn
               in
               that
               .
               And
               my
               Lords
               ,
               whether
               he
               be
               a
               man
               of
               any
               great
               Credit
               I
               think
               I
               have
               proved
               enough
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
               'T
               is
               proved
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               Holt
               and
               Morrall
               that
               he
               offered
               them
               money
               to
               swear
               ,
               as
               likewise
               he
               did
               to
               another
               ,
               one
               Robinson
               ,
               whom
               I
               do
               believe
               by
               the
               Information
               that
               was
               given
               of
               him
               to
               be
               a
               wicked
               ill
               man
               and
               not
               to
               be
               credited
               ,
               but
               being
               so
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               he
               was
               the
               fitter
               for
               
               Dugdale's
               turn
               .
               And
               yet
               he
               had
               so
               much
               Conscience
               ,
               though
               he
               was
               a
               poor
               and
               needy
               fellow
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               swear
               a
               mans
               Life
               away
               for
               money
               ,
               the
               other
               two
               are
               without
               exception
               ,
               the
               one
               they
               say
               is
               an
               idle
               fellow
               ,
               and
               t'other
               a
               man
               but
               of
               an
               indifferent
               Reputation
               ,
               how
               far
               that
               will
               move
               with
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               submit
               it
               to
               you
               .
               I
               suppose
               't
               is
               also
               clear
               by
               my
               Witnesses
               that
               Dugdale
               is
               a
               man
               of
               no
               Reputation
               ,
               having
               forsworn
               himself
               in
               several
               particulars
               ,
               and
               I
               submit
               the
               Credit
               of
               all
               he
               says
               to
               your
               Lordships
               upon
               that
               .
            
             
               The
               next
               Witness
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               is
               Mr.
               Oats
               ,
               whether
               he
               be
               a
               Doctor
               or
               no
               I
               know
               it
               not
               ,
               he
               would
               not
               own
               it
               here
               ,
               he
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               swears
               that
               he
               saw
               a
               Commission
               delivered
               to
               me
               to
               be
               Pay-master
               of
               an
               Army
               to
               be
               raised
               ,
               God
               knows
               when
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               when
               ,
               or
               where
               ,
               I
               suppose
               it
               was
               in
               the
               Clouds
               ,
               for
               I
               never
               knew
               where
               else
               .
               Mr.
               Oats
               all
               along
               before
               swore
               only
               that
               he
               believed
               I
               was
               in
               the
               Plot
               ,
               now
               he
               swears
               I
               was
               in
               it
               ,
               at
               Mr.
               Fenwicks
               Chamber
               a
               man
               I
               never
               saw
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               nor
               heard
               of
               till
               this
               discovery
               .
               And
               that
               he
               saw
               Letters
               subscribed
               by
               my
               Name
               ;
               but
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               conceive
               is
               no
               Evidence
               at
               all
               ,
               for
               he
               never
               saw
               me
               write
               nor
               does
               know
               my
               Hand
               ,
               nor
               does
               he
               pretend
               to
               know
               me
               then
               ,
               and
               when
               he
               had
               told
               your
               Lordships
               he
               had
               a
               Letter
               of
               mine
               ,
               he
               pretended
               to
               look
               for
               it
               ,
               and
               then
               said
               he
               had
               lost
               it
               ,
               that
               is
               ,
               never
               had
               it
               .
               But
               besides
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               his
               Evidence
               now
               does
               not
               agree
               with
               his
               former
               ,
               for
               I
               do
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               that
               were
               in
               the
               House
               then
               ,
               that
               he
               swore
               the
               first
               time
               ,
               He
               only
               saw
               my
               Name
               to
               Letters
               ,
               afterwards
               he
               swore
               (
               that
               is
               some
               days
               after
               he
               had
               ended
               all
               his
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               knew
               no
               more
               than
               he
               had
               put
               down
               then
               ,
               afterwards
               he
               remembers
               what
               he
               knew
               not
               before
               ,
               and
               swears
               )
               a
               Commission
               he
               saw
               delivered
               to
               me
               :
               So
               his
               Memory
               increases
               as
               he
               hath
               time
               to
               invent
               ,
               and
               perhaps
               by
               another
               time
               it
               might
               be
               much
               more
               .
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               think
               that
               one
               particular
               ,
               his
               swearing
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               as
               't
               is
               entred
               in
               your
               Journal
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               no
               more
               to
               say
               against
               any
               body
               ,
               and
               afterwards
               naming
               the
               Queen
               ,
               and
               now
               me
               to
               have
               a
               Commission
               ,
               I
               conceive
               is
               perfect
               Perjury
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Oats
               told
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               That
               he
               had
               never
               
               been
               a
               Papist
               in
               his
               Heart
               but
               ever
               feigned
               it
               ;
               truly
               my
               Lords
               I
               cannot
               possibly
               give
               over
               that
               point
               ,
               That
               a
               man
               that
               feigns
               himself
               to
               be
               a
               Papist
               or
               any
               thing
               that
               in
               the
               opinion
               of
               Protestants
               is
               so
               wicked
               a
               thing
               as
               that
               ,
               is
               fit
               to
               be
               believed
               ,
               if
               he
               shall
               not
               heartily
               repent
               himself
               ,
               and
               own
               it
               to
               God
               and
               Man
               as
               an
               ill
               thing
               to
               dissemble
               so
               .
               But
               yesterday
               he
               with
               a
               smiling
               Countenance
               ,
               and
               as
               it
               were
               in
               derision
               ,
               owns
               that
               which
               must
               be
               a
               very
               great
               offence
               to
               God
               Almighty
               to
               pretend
               to
               be
               of
               an
               Idolatrous
               Church
               .
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               whether
               he
               be
               a
               fit
               Witness
               ,
               I
               conceive
               he
               cannot
               be
               thought
               a
               Christian
               ,
               nor
               to
               believe
               in
               God.
               I
               know
               many
               wicked
               and
               infamous
               persons
               have
               done
               many
               wicked
               things
               ,
               and
               yet
               have
               been
               Witnesses
               ,
               but
               never
               did
               any
               wicked
               man
               own
               a
               wicked
               thing
               ,
               that
               he
               might
               have
               concealed
               ,
               with
               boasting
               of
               it
               ,
               that
               ever
               was
               credited
               in
               any
               thing
               ;
               for
               if
               he
               had
               said
               I
               do
               acknowledge
               I
               did
               dissemble
               with
               God
               and
               my
               own
               Conscience
               ,
               but
               I
               ask
               God
               forgiveness
               ,
               it
               was
               for
               a
               good
               End
               and
               a
               good
               Intention
               ,
               it
               had
               been
               something
               (
               though
               that
               could
               not
               have
               atoned
               for
               so
               ill
               a
               thing
               )
               but
               shewing
               no
               Repentance
               ,
               but
               rather
               an
               impudent
               affronting
               of
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               I
               think
               he
               is
               not
               a
               fit
               Witness
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               and
               the
               whole
               Christian
               World
               if
               he
               be
               .
               I
               cannot
               believe
               your
               Lordships
               will
               condemn
               me
               for
               an
               Opinion
               which
               I
               will
               go
               to
               my
               death
               with
               ,
               and
               it
               stands
               upon
               me
               so
               to
               do
               .
            
             
               The
               last
               Witness
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               is
               Turbervill
               ,
               and
               he
               says
               ,
               in
               the
               year
               (
               75
               )
               he
               often
               discoursed
               alone
               with
               me
               for
               a
               fortnight
               together
               at
               Paris
               .
               My
               Servants
               he
               owns
               he
               never
               saw
               them
               ,
               and
               how
               he
               could
               come
               for
               a
               fortnight
               together
               ,
               and
               not
               see
               my
               Servants
               ,
               I
               refer
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               consideration
               whether
               it
               be
               possible
               .
               For
               I
               'le
               tell
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               when
               I
               had
               been
               a
               few
               days
               at
               Paris
               my
               Landlord
               came
               one
               day
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               said
               ,
               You
               do
               not
               do
               well
               to
               suffer
               any
               body
               to
               come
               to
               you
               without
               your
               Man
               be
               by
               ,
               for
               there
               came
               yesterday
               a
               Frenchman
               to
               speak
               with
               you
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               not
               know
               him
               ,
               and
               he
               went
               strait
               up
               to
               your
               Chamber
               without
               any
               body
               with
               him
               ,
               't
               is
               a
               dangerous
               thing
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               for
               I
               know
               that
               Frenchmen
               and
               people
               have
               come
               up
               ,
               and
               been
               alone
               with
               persons
               ,
               and
               put
               a
               Pistol
               to
               them
               ,
               and
               made
               them
               deliver
               their
               mony
               for
               fear
               of
               their
               Lives
               ,
               therefore
               pray
               ,
               said
               he
               ,
               do
               it
               no
               more
               .
               From
               that
               time
               ,
               which
               was
               a
               few
               days
               after
               ,
               I
               came
               to
               Paris
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               October
               ,
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               November
               ,
               no
               Christian
               Soul
               was
               permitted
               to
               come
               to
               me
               without
               my
               Servants
               ,
               how
               then
               could
               he
               come
               to
               me
               for
               a
               fortnight
               together
               and
               none
               of
               my
               Servants
               see
               him
               ?
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               Gentleman
               very
               civilly
               the
               next
               day
               after
               he
               had
               made
               an
               Affidavit
               against
               me
               would
               needs
               mend
               it
               ,
               and
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Poultney
              
               did
               acknowledge
               that
               he
               made
               Affidavit
               one
               day
               ,
               that
               he
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               in
               the
               year
               (
               73
               )
               and
               the
               next
               day
               amended
               it
               to
               (
               72.
               )
               Now
               I
               humbly
               conceive
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               a
               man
               that
               swears
               one
               thing
               to
               day
               ,
               which
               he
               forswears
               to
               morrow
               is
               not
               to
               be
               believed
               ;
               And
               the
               truth
               of
               it
               is
               ,
               as
               his
               Brothers
               prove
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               he
               came
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               in
               
               the
               year
               (
               71
               )
               and
               so
               he
               forswears
               himself
               in
               every
               thing
               ,
               and
               is
               in
               no
               wise
               to
               be
               believed
               .
               He
               swears
               to
               your
               Lordships
               I
               writ
               a
               Letter
               to
               him
               to
               acquaint
               him
               that
               I
               would
               go
               by
               Calice
               ,
               and
               not
               by
               Diep
               ;
               but
               I
               have
               proved
               I
               went
               by
               Diep
               ,
               and
               I
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               I
               have
               not
               been
               at
               Calice
               ,
               I
               think
               ,
               these
               twelve
               or
               fourteen
               years
               .
               I
               conceive
               these
               things
               are
               very
               manifest
               and
               clear
               proofs
               against
               him
               that
               he
               hath
               not
               swore
               one
               true
               word
               .
               He
               swears
               that
               my
               Lord
               Powis
               ,
               my
               Lady
               Powis
               ,
               and
               his
               friends
               ,
               perswaded
               him
               to
               go
               to
               Doway
               to
               to
               be
               a
               Frier
               ,
               but
               not
               liking
               it
               he
               came
               over
               again
               and
               was
               in
               danger
               of
               his
               life
               by
               them
               ;
               but
               the
               Evidence
               is
               sufficiently
               strong
               in
               proof
               that
               he
               afterwards
               was
               at
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               and
               was
               well
               received
               ,
               that
               he
               lay
               in
               the
               House
               ,
               and
               was
               not
               in
               the
               least
               injured
               by
               them
               .
               And
               for
               his
               other
               Relations
               his
               Brother
               proves
               he
               was
               not
               ill
               used
               by
               them
               .
               They
               gave
               him
               Seven
               Pound
               to
               be
               gone
               and
               trouble
               them
               no
               more
               .
               He
               says
               ,
               I
               said
               ,
               he
               was
               a
               Coward
               ,
               and
               I
               'le
               tell
               you
               why
               I
               said
               so
               ,
               because
               a
               Captain
               ,
               that
               is
               now
               out
               of
               England
               ,
               told
               his
               Sister
               so
               ,
               who
               told
               me
               ,
               But
               that
               is
               not
               very
               material
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               is
               one
               Witness
               more
               ,
               
                 John
                 Porter
              
               that
               swears
               to
               your
               Lordships
               this
               one
               thing
               ,
               That
               this
               Turbervill
               swore
               to
               him
               at
               such
               an
               Alehouse
               ,
               he
               knew
               nothing
               of
               the
               Plot.
               And
               then
               my
               Lords
               there
               is
               Mr.
               Yalden
               ,
               and
               he
               is
               a
               Gentleman
               of
               Reputation
               ,
               he
               said
               in
               his
               company
               ,
               there
               was
               no
               Trade
               good
               but
               that
               of
               a
               Discoverer
               ,
               God
               damn
               the
               Duke
               of
               
                 York
                 ,
                 Monmouth
              
               ,
               Plot
               and
               all
               ,
               for
               I
               know
               nothing
               of
               it
               .
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               whether
               he
               got
               no
               money
               by
               it
               or
               is
               known
               since
               he
               hath
               been
               a
               Discoverer
               ,
               telling
               what
               he
               knew
               not
               so
               many
               Months
               ago
               ;
               and
               therefore
               I
               submit
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               what
               he
               is
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               these
               people
               that
               swear
               against
               me
               ,
               there
               is
               not
               one
               of
               them
               a
               person
               of
               any
               Quality
               or
               Condition
               ,
               and
               whether
               they
               have
               not
               rather
               sworn
               for
               money
               than
               the
               truth
               ,
               by
               things
               that
               are
               known
               ,
               and
               need
               no
               proof
               ,
               I
               shall
               observe
               when
               I
               come
               to
               it
               to
               argue
               that
               point
               in
               Law
               ;
               Whether
               a
               man
               that
               swears
               for
               gain
               is
               a
               credible
               Witness
               or
               no
               ?
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               as
               well
               as
               I
               can
               summed
               up
               that
               little
               Evidence
               that
               was
               given
               against
               me
               ,
               I
               cannot
               better
               do
               it
               in
               so
               short
               a
               time
               ,
               for
               indeed
               I
               had
               but
               a
               very
               short
               time
               last
               night
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               not
               slept
               ,
               I
               had
               the
               Cramp
               so
               much
               in
               extremity
               that
               my
               next
               Neighbour
               heard
               me
               roaring
               out
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               submit
               my self
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               doubt
               not
               but
               that
               the
               matters
               charged
               upon
               me
               will
               appear
               to
               your
               Lordships
               sufficiently
               answered
               .
               And
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               well
               to
               consider
               that
               one
               thing
               against
               Dr.
               Oats
               ,
               his
               dissembling
               with
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               and
               his
               impudent
               owning
               of
               it
               .
               This
               I
               do
               insist
               upon
               ,
               and
               I
               protest
               before
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               if
               I
               were
               a
               Judge
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               hang
               a
               Dog
               upon
               such
               Evidence
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               many
               points
               in
               Law
               to
               offer
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               when
               you
               please
               I
               should
               do
               it
               ,
               I
               'le
               name
               them
               to
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Name
               them
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               if
               you
               have
               any
               Doubts
               in
               Law
               propound
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Lovelace
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               interrupt
               my
               Lord
               ,
               but
               I
               think
               indeed
               it
               is
               no
               interruption
               ,
               since
               his
               Lordship
               broke
               off
               and
               was
               going
               on
               to
               another
               point
               .
               But
               I
               think
               I
               see
               one
               of
               the
               impudentest
               things
               that
               ever
               was
               done
               in
               a
               Court
               of
               Justice
               ;
               Whilest
               we
               are
               Trying
               a
               Person
               here
               for
               a
               Popish
               Plot
               ,
               I
               do
               see
               a
               prosessed
               Papist
               standing
               in
               the
               Body
               of
               your
               House
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               Sir
               
                 Barnard
                 Gascoyne
              
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Who
             thereupon
             went
             out
             of
             the
             Court.
             )
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               conceive
               I
               have
               cleared
               my self
               to
               your
               '
               Lordships
               of
               what
               I
               am
               accused
               of
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               The
               Course
               of
               my
               whole
               Life
               hath
               been
               otherwise
               ,
               I
               defie
               any
               Creature
               in
               the
               World
               to
               say
               ,
               That
               I
               ever
               used
               one
               disobedient
               or
               disloyal
               word
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               or
               did
               any
               such
               Act.
               I
               waited
               on
               the
               King
               that
               now
               is
               in
               the
               Unhappy
               War
               that
               is
               passed
               ,
               when
               I
               was
               in
               a
               low
               condition
               enough
               as
               to
               Fortune
               ,
               and
               my
               Wife
               and
               Family
               were
               thereby
               reduced
               to
               great
               Streights
               ,
               for
               my
               Wife
               and
               Children
               lived
               some
               five
               or
               six
               years
               upon
               some
               Plate
               and
               Jewels
               that
               we
               had
               ,
               whereas
               if
               I
               would
               have
               come
               ,
               and
               been
               at
               London
               ,
               and
               joined
               with
               that
               party
               ,
               I
               could
               have
               saved
               my
               Estate
               ,
               and
               lived
               quietly
               as
               others
               did
               .
               But
               my
               Conscience
               told
               me
               ,
               I
               ought
               to
               wait
               upon
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               offer
               him
               my
               personal
               Service
               ,
               when
               I
               could
               do
               him
               no
               other
               .
               I
               have
               shewn
               how
               the
               Witnesses
               have
               forsworn
               themselves
               ,
               I
               shall
               now
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               desire
               your
               Opinion
               in
               some
               points
               of
               Law.
               And
               though
               perhaps
               I
               may
               name
               to
               your
               Lordships
               many
               things
               that
               are
               impertinent
               ,
               or
               not
               to
               the
               purpose
               ,
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               ,
               't
               is
               out
               of
               the
               weakness
               of
               my
               Understanding
               ,
               and
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               not
               think
               ill
               ,
               neither
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               nor
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               if
               I
               should
               ,
               through
               Ignorance
               ,
               move
               things
               impertinent
               .
               The
               first
               Point
               of
               Law
               is
               this
               ,
            
             
               First
               ,
               I
               conceive
               there
               is
               no
               Example
               or
               President
               for
               it
               ,
               That
               Proceedings
               Criminal
               ever
               did
               continue
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               ,
               and
               this
               is
               continued
               to
               three
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Speak
               out
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               go
               on
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Secondly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               question
               the
               power
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               in
               the
               least
               ,
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               know
               they
               Impeach
               when
               they
               find
               Grounds
               for
               it
               without
               dispute
               ,
               but
               I
               question
               whether
               any
               man
               ,
               by
               the
               known
               Laws
               of
               this
               Kingdom
               ,
               in
               Capital
               Cases
               ,
               can
               be
               proceeded
               on
               ,
               but
               by
               Indictment
               first
               found
               by
               the
               Grand
               Jury
               ,
               and
               not
               by
               Impeachment
               by
               any
               Person
               ,
               or
               other
               body
               of
               Men.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Say
               on
               my
               Lord.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Thirdly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               conceive
               there
               are
               many
               defects
               in
               the
               Indictment
               or
               the
               Impeachment
               (
               Indictment
               there
               is
               none
               )
               There
               is
               no
               Overt
               Act
               alledged
               in
               the
               Indictment
               or
               Impeachment
               ,
               I
               know
               not
               well
               what
               it
               is
               called
               .
               And
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               by
               the
               Act
               of
               Parliament
               in
               1
               H.
               4.
               c.
               10.
               nothing
               from
               thenceforth
               is
               to
               be
               Treason
               ,
               but
               according
               to
               the
               Statute
               of
               25
               Edw.
               3.
               which
               includes
               an
               Overt
               Act.
               
            
             
             
               Fourthly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               that
               I
               may
               prove
               that
               by
               Law
               they
               are
               not
               competent
               Witnesses
               ,
               for
               they
               swear
               for
               money
               .
               But
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               forgot
               one
               thing
               to
               say
               to
               Your
               Lordships
               as
               to
               the
               Evidence
               ,
               that
               these
               Gentlemen
               did
               endeavour
               to
               prove
               
                 (
                 I
              
               do
               not
               speak
               whether
               they
               did
               or
               not
               )
               a
               general
               Plot
               of
               the
               Papists
               ,
               whether
               they
               did
               not
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               concerned
               in
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               say
               they
               have
               not
               proved
               me
               a
               Papist
               ,
               which
               I
               submit
               to
               Your
               Lordships
               ;
               and
               though
               any
               man
               may
               know
               me
               so
               in
               his
               private
               knowledge
               ,
               yet
               they
               having
               not
               given
               any
               proof
               of
               it
               ,
               't
               is
               not
               to
               affect
               me
               .
            
             
               Fifthly
               ,
               There
               is
               is
               one
               Point
               of
               Law
               more
               ,
               That
               no
               man
               can
               be
               condemned
               for
               Treason
               ,
               as
               I
               conceive
               by
               one
               Witness
               ,
               and
               there
               are
               not
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               any
               Point
               .
               These
               are
               the
               Points
               of
               Law
               ,
               I
               humbly
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               for
               the
               trouble
               ,
               and
               desire
               your
               Opinion
               in
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Before
               we
               make
               answer
               to
               what
               my
               Lord
               hath
               said
               ,
               I
               do
               humbly
               desire
               ,
               That
               for
               the
               Objection
               which
               he
               hath
               made
               against
               Mr.
               Southall
               ,
               proved
               by
               a
               Noble
               Lord
               of
               this
               House
               (
               though
               I
               must
               observe
               it
               was
               not
               of
               his
               own
               knowledge
               ,
               but
               by
               Hear-say
               ,
               and
               that
               matter
               of
               Hear-say
               contrary
               to
               the
               Act
               of
               Oblivion
               )
               to
               the
               end
               there
               may
               no
               doubt
               remain
               of
               Mr.
               
               Southall's
               Credit
               ,
               that
               a
               Noble
               Lord
               of
               this
               House
               ,
               and
               a
               Gentleman
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               (
               who
               both
               know
               Mr.
               Southall
               )
               may
               be
               heard
               to
               his
               Reputation
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Ferrers
               knew
               him
               not
               himself
               ,
               but
               my
               Lord
               Brook
               and
               Mr.
               Gower
               will
               give
               a
               better
               account
               of
               him
               .
            
          
           
             (
             Then
             the
             Lord
             Brook
             was
             sworn
             .
             )
          
           
             
               Lord
               Brook.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               What
               I
               have
               to
               say
               concerning
               this
               Mr.
               Southall
               is
               ,
               That
               he
               hath
               been
               often
               employed
               both
               by
               my
               Brother
               and
               my
               Mother
               ,
               and
               they
               have
               so
               good
               an
               Opinion
               of
               him
               ,
               that
               they
               employ
               him
               still
               ,
               and
               therefore
               we
               take
               him
               for
               an
               honest
               man
               ,
               and
               an
               able
               man
               ,
               or
               he
               would
               not
               be
               so
               much
               trusted
               and
               employed
               ,
               and
               I
               take
               him
               to
               be
               a
               very
               good
               Churchman
               ,
               for
               if
               he
               was
               not
               I
               would
               not
               employ
               him
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               An
               honest
               man
               ,
               an
               able
               ,
               and
               a
               good
               Churchman
               your
               Lordship
               says
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Brook.
               
            
             
               He
               receives
               the
               Sacrament
               four
               times
               a
               year
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               Then
               swear
               Mr.
               
                 VVilliam
                 Leveson
                 Gower
              
               ,
               a
               Member
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               .
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 in
                 his
                 place
                 .
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               L.
               Gower
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               near
               7
               years
               of
               Staffordshire
               ,
               but
               did
               not
               know
               Mr.
               Southall
               till
               this
               Popish
               Plot
               was
               discovered
               .
               After
               that
               I
               came
               acquainted
               with
               him
               (
               being
               a
               Justice
               of
               the
               Peace
               in
               that
               County
               )
               in
               Court
               ,
               where
               I
               found
               him
               to
               be
               the
               most
               zealous
               Prosecutor
               of
               the
               Papists
               in
               that
               Country
               ,
               no
               man
               like
               him
               .
               I
               likewise
               found
               several
               Popish
               Priests
               ,
               had
               by
               his
               means
               ,
               been
               apprehended
               ,
               and
               imprisoned
               ,
               and
               one
               of
               them
               since
               convicted
               ,
               who
               by
               the
               way
               still
               remains
               unexecuted
               in
               Stafford
               Goal
               .
               What
               Opinion
               some
               may
               have
               
               heard
               or
               had
               of
               him
               formerly
               ,
               I
               cannot
               tell
               ,
               but
               this
               I
               know
               ,
               that
               he
               hath
               more
               than
               once
               come
               to
               desire
               my
               Assistance
               ,
               that
               he
               might
               prosecute
               the
               Papists
               the
               most
               effectual
               way
               upon
               the
               Statutes
               made
               for
               that
               purpose
               ,
               and
               that
               he
               did
               complain
               to
               me
               that
               he
               had
               not
               met
               with
               good
               usage
               elsewhere
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               take
               Opinion
               to
               be
               grounded
               upon
               Principles
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               observe
               that
               those
               of
               this
               Country
               ,
               who
               do
               believe
               this
               
                 Popish
                 Plot
              
               ,
               and
               know
               Mr.
               Southall
               ,
               and
               are
               principl'd
               for
               the
               Preservation
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               the
               Protestant
               Religion
               ,
               and
               the
               Government
               ,
               do
               at
               this
               time
               speak
               well
               of
               him
               ,
               and
               those
               who
               are
               not
               so
               principl'd
               speak
               otherwise
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               was
               surpris'd
               when
               I
               heard
               my
               Name
               mention'd
               upon
               this
               occasion
               ,
               I
               have
               told
               your
               Lordships
               all
               the
               matter
               of
               Fact
               that
               upon
               the
               suddain
               occurs
               to
               me
               ,
               (
               with
               my
               own
               Opinion
               ,
               which
               I
               offer
               with
               all
               submission
               )
               and
               had
               I
               had
               notice
               ,
               I
               might
               possibly
               have
               recollected
               more
               ,
               which
               I
               would
               freely
               have
               declared
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               but
               this
               is
               all
               that
               I
               can
               now
               say
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               I
               would
               say
               one
               word
               ,
               if
               you
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               ,
               I
               am
               very
               ignorant
               ,
               and
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               for
               troubling
               of
               you
               ,
               I
               humbly
               desire
               to
               know
               ,
               whether
               after
               the
               Points
               of
               Law
               are
               argued
               ,
               I
               may
               speak
               something
               not
               concerning
               the
               Evidence
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               but
               concerning
               my self
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               not
               oppose
               the
               saying
               any
               thing
               he
               can
               for
               himself
               ,
               but
               we
               must
               conclude
               ,
               and
               have
               the
               last
               word
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               the
               Gentlemen
               that
               are
               for
               the
               
                 House
                 of
                 Commons
              
               must
               conclude
               .
               My
               Lords
               will
               give
               you
               all
               the
               favour
               they
               can
               ,
               but
               they
               must
               have
               the
               last
               word
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               oppose
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Therefore
               you
               will
               do
               well
               to
               say
               all
               you
               have
               to
               say
               together
               .
               For
               the
               Points
               of
               Law
               ,
               my
               Lords
               will
               give
               no
               Judgement
               till
               the
               Commons
               have
               answered
               them
               ,
               and
               they
               I
               suppose
               will
               first
               sum
               up
               the
               whole
               Proofs
               ,
               then
               you
               may
               say
               what
               you
               have
               to
               say
               ,
               for
               they
               must
               make
               an
               end
               .
               Gentlemen
               ,
               will
               you
               speak
               first
               to
               the
               Law
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               first
               to
               the
               Fact.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Go
               on
               then
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             Sir
             
               William
               Jones
            
             ,
             One
             of
             the
             Committee
             appointed
             to
             manage
             the
             Evidence
             ,
             began
             to
             sum
             up
             the
             same
             as
             followeth
             :
          
           
             MAy
             it
             please
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             We
             have
             now
             done
             our
             Evidence
             ,
             as
             to
             matter
             of
             Fact
             ,
             and
             that
             which
             I
             have
             in
             Charge
             at
             this
             time
             ,
             is
             to
             remind
             your
             Lordships
             of
             our
             Proofs
             ,
             to
             answer
             the
             Objections
             that
             have
             been
             made
             against
             them
             ,
             and
             to
             make
             some
             Observations
             upon
             the
             whole
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             The
             Members
             of
             the
             
               House
               of
               Commons
            
             that
             were
             appointed
             for
             
             the
             Service
             of
             the
             Management
             of
             this
             Tryal
             ,
             those
             of
             them
             (
             I
             mean
             )
             who
             began
             the
             first
             day
             ,
             made
             a
             Division
             of
             our
             Evidence
             into
             two
             parts
             ,
             the
             one
             ,
             that
             which
             concerned
             the
             Plot
             in
             general
             ,
             and
             the
             other
             what
             related
             to
             this
             Lord
             in
             particular
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             as
             to
             the
             Plot
             in
             general
             ,
             we
             did
             call
             six
             Witnesses
             ,
             I
             know
             some
             of
             your
             Lordships
             have
             taken
             Notes
             ,
             and
             you
             have
             their
             Names
             ,
             they
             were
             
               Smith
               ,
               Dugdale
               ,
               Prance
               ,
               Oats
               ,
               Denis
            
             and
             Jenison
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             because
             I
             will
             save
             as
             much
             of
             your
             time
             as
             I
             can
             ,
             I
             will
             not
             take
             upon
             me
             to
             repeat
             what
             each
             Witness
             said
             as
             to
             the
             Plot
             in
             general
             ;
             but
             when
             I
             come
             to
             the
             ▪
             Evidence
             which
             immediately
             concerns
             my
             Lord
             ,
             I
             must
             beg
             your
             favour
             that
             I
             may
             be
             more
             particular
             .
             I
             will
             say
             thus
             much
             for
             the
             Proofs
             of
             the
             Plot
             in
             general
             ,
             That
             there
             was
             by
             those
             Witnesses
             so
             much
             fully
             proved
             ,
             that
             made
             it
             most
             apparent
             ,
             That
             there
             was
             a
             general
             Design
             amongst
             the
             
               Roman
               Catholicks
            
             to
             introduce
             their
             false
             Religion
             into
             this
             Kingdom
             ,
             That
             the
             Jesuits
             had
             several
             Meetings
             to
             that
             end
             ,
             That
             they
             endeavoured
             to
             do
             it
             by
             several
             ways
             ,
             by
             raising
             of
             Armes
             ,
             by
             collecting
             of
             Monies
             ,
             and
             by
             designing
             against
             the
             Kings
             Life
             ;
             nay
             ,
             they
             had
             so
             far
             advanced
             their
             Designs
             ,
             and
             were
             in
             so
             much
             readiness
             ,
             as
             they
             thought
             it
             time
             to
             appoint
             Officers
             not
             only
             for
             their
             Army
             ,
             but
             for
             the
             Civil
             Government
             ,
             as
             if
             the
             Work
             were
             already
             accomplished
             .
          
           
             Your
             Lordships
             were
             told
             by
             one
             of
             the
             Witnesses
             of
             a
             
               Lord
               Chancellor
            
             ,
             and
             of
             a
             
               Lord
               Treasurer
            
             ,
             (
             Lords
             now
             in
             the
             Tower
             yet
             to
             be
             tried
             )
             and
             you
             were
             told
             also
             of
             Officers
             for
             the
             Military
             part
             ,
             a
             General
             ,
             a
             Lieutenant-General
             ,
             and
             this
             Lord
             at
             the
             Bar
             to
             be
             Pay-Master
             of
             the
             Army
             .
          
           
             I
             shall
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             desire
             to
             take
             notice
             to
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             That
             this
             Design
             ,
             though
             it
             was
             to
             be
             finally
             acted
             by
             other
             Hands
             ,
             yet
             was
             it
             first
             contrived
             ,
             and
             afterwards
             carried
             on
             by
             the
             Priests
             and
             Jesuits
             .
             You
             will
             find
             them
             preparing
             for
             it
             ,
             by
             making
             Sermons
             to
             justifie
             that
             Doctrine
             (
             which
             I
             confess
             this
             Noble
             Lord
             denies
             )
             of
             the
             lawfulness
             of
             killing
             Kings
             .
             You
             will
             find
             the
             Priests
             and
             Jesuits
             ,
             in
             their
             Discourses
             as
             well
             as
             Sermons
             ,
             urging
             and
             incouraging
             their
             Disciples
             and
             Votaries
             ,
             to
             go
             on
             with
             their
             Design
             of
             killing
             our
             King
             ,
             and
             giving
             that
             common
             Reason
             for
             it
             ,
             That
             He
             was
             an
             Heretick
             ,
             and
             it
             were
             meritorious
             to
             take
             him
             out
             of
             the
             way
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             take
             notice
             of
             these
             particulars
             in
             the
             general
             Plot
             ,
             because
             it
             may
             give
             great
             light
             to
             ,
             and
             add
             much
             to
             the
             Confirmation
             of
             the
             particular
             Evidence
             .
             And
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             (
             I
             think
             )
             I
             may
             take
             leave
             to
             say
             ,
             That
             the
             Plot
             in
             general
             hath
             been
             now
             sufficiently
             proved
             .
             And
             if
             we
             consider
             what
             hath
             been
             proved
             at
             former
             Tryals
             (
             upon
             which
             many
             of
             the
             Offenders
             and
             Traytors
             have
             been
             executed
             )
             what
             hath
             been
             published
             in
             Print
             ,
             and
             above
             all
             
             Coleman's
             Letters
             ,
             written
             all
             with
             his
             own
             hand
             ,
             and
             for
             that
             reason
             impossible
             to
             be
             falsified
             ;
             we
             may
             justly
             conclude
             ,
             that
             there
             is
             not
             a
             man
             in
             
             England
             ,
             of
             any
             understanding
             ,
             but
             must
             be
             fully
             convinced
             of
             the
             truth
             of
             the
             Plot
             in
             general
             .
             I
             shall
             spare
             to
             mention
             the
             Resolutions
             and
             Declarations
             of
             Two
             Parliaments
             ,
             and
             of
             both
             Houses
             in
             those
             Two
             Parliaments
             without
             (
             as
             I
             remember
             )
             one
             dissenting
             Voice
             ,
             expressing
             their
             full
             satisfaction
             of
             the
             Reality
             of
             the
             Plot
             ;
             so
             that
             I
             think
             now
             none
             remain
             that
             do
             pretend
             not
             to
             believe
             it
             ,
             but
             two
             sorts
             of
             persons
             ,
             the
             one
             those
             that
             were
             Conspirators
             in
             it
             ,
             and
             the
             other
             those
             that
             wish'd
             it
             had
             succeeded
             ,
             and
             desire
             it
             may
             so
             still
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             will
             be
             the
             shorter
             on
             this
             part
             ;
             For
             perhaps
             it
             will
             be
             objected
             ,
             You
             have
             offered
             a
             fair
             Proof
             of
             a
             general
             Plot
             ,
             here
             are
             Records
             ,
             Votes
             of
             both
             Houses
             ,
             Papers
             and
             Evidences
             printed
             ,
             and
             Witnesses
             
               Viva
               voce
            
             to
             prove
             it
             ;
             but
             what
             is
             all
             this
             to
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             ?
             My
             Lords
             ,
             it
             goes
             a
             great
             way
             to
             him
             ;
             I
             do
             not
             say
             to
             be
             a
             convincing
             Evidence
             ,
             but
             to
             make
             the
             particular
             Evidence
             against
             him
             highly
             credible
             .
          
           
             Your
             Lordships
             cannot
             imagine
             ,
             That
             there
             are
             such
             a
             store
             of
             Lords
             and
             great
             Men
             amongst
             that
             Party
             (
             though
             there
             be
             too
             many
             )
             that
             they
             should
             have
             great
             Choice
             for
             great
             Offices
             .
             Your
             Lordships
             hear
             how
             the
             other
             great
             Offices
             were
             disposed
             of
             ,
             and
             truly
             I
             think
             the
             Merit
             of
             this
             Lord
             amongst
             that
             party
             might
             very
             well
             intitle
             him
             to
             an
             Office
             as
             great
             as
             this
             of
             Treasurer
             of
             War
             ,
             or
             Pay-Master
             to
             the
             Army
             .
             But
             what
             is
             the
             Evidence
             of
             the
             general
             Plot
             (
             may
             some
             still
             say
             )
             to
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             ?
             what
             do
             you
             mention
             the
             raising
             an
             Army
             ?
             what
             do
             you
             mention
             the
             collecting
             of
             Money
             ?
             what
             do
             you
             mention
             the
             providing
             of
             Arms
             for
             ?
             Yes
             my
             Lords
             ,
             they
             are
             very
             useful
             ,
             for
             they
             give
             a
             a
             fair
             Introduction
             to
             prove
             against
             this
             Lord
             that
             he
             was
             to
             have
             this
             Office.
             If
             it
             be
             proved
             by
             other
             Witnesses
             than
             those
             who
             swear
             directly
             against
             this
             Lord
             ,
             That
             there
             were
             Arms
             provided
             ,
             that
             there
             was
             an
             Army
             to
             be
             raised
             ,
             and
             the
             rest
             ;
             It
             proves
             at
             least
             that
             there
             was
             Occasion
             for
             such
             an
             Officer
             as
             the
             particular
             Witness
             proves
             my
             Lord
             was
             to
             be
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             For
             the
             other
             matter
             that
             relates
             to
             the
             Consultations
             of
             the
             Priests
             and
             Jesuits
             ,
             and
             their
             Sermons
             and
             Discourses
             ;
             I
             desire
             your
             Lordships
             to
             observe
             that
             also
             ,
             which
             if
             you
             do
             ,
             your
             Lordships
             will
             easily
             perceive
             what
             a
             great
             influence
             even
             that
             matter
             hath
             upon
             the
             particular
             Evidence
             ,
             and
             how
             credible
             it
             renders
             the
             Testimony
             of
             the
             particular
             Witnesses
             .
             Your
             Lordships
             will
             find
             ,
             when
             my
             Lord
             was
             at
             Tixal
             (
             as
             Dugdale
             gives
             you
             an
             Accompt
             )
             there
             was
             Evers
             the
             Jesuit
             ,
             and
             other
             Priests
             still
             at
             my
             Lords
             Elbow
             ,
             and
             egging
             him
             on
             to
             this
             business
             .
             Your
             Lordships
             will
             find
             where
             Oats
             speaks
             of
             him
             ,
             it
             is
             at
             
             Fenwick's
             Chamber
             ,
             who
             was
             a
             Jesuit
             ,
             giving
             him
             ghostly
             Counsel
             .
             Your
             Lordships
             will
             find
             ,
             that
             at
             Paris
             ,
             where
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             speaks
             of
             him
             ,
             there
             were
             Father
             Sherborne
             ,
             Father
             Nelson
             ,
             and
             Father
             
               Anthony
               Turbervill
            
             .
             Still
             the
             Priests
             are
             about
             my
             Lord
             ;
             and
             when
             my
             Lord
             is
             among
             them
             ,
             or
             but
             newly
             come
             from
             them
             ,
             then
             he
             utters
             the
             Treason
             of
             killing
             the
             King.
             And
             doubtless
             this
             trayterous
             purpose
             of
             his
             did
             arise
             from
             their
             Counsels
             .
             So
             that
             
             though
             our
             Witnesses
             speak
             of
             my
             Lords
             Discourses
             at
             several
             times
             about
             killing
             the
             King
             ,
             yet
             they
             make
             them
             flow
             from
             one
             and
             the
             same
             Fountain
             ,
             the
             instigation
             of
             the
             Priests
             and
             Jesuits
             .
          
           
             But
             now
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             to
             come
             to
             the
             particular
             Evidence
             ,
             I
             think
             I
             may
             say
             ,
             if
             ever
             Evidence
             was
             convincing
             ,
             this
             is
             so
             .
             We
             have
             brought
             three
             Witnesses
             which
             speak
             each
             of
             them
             that
             which
             is
             sufficient
             to
             prove
             my
             Lord
             Guilty
             ,
             and
             they
             speak
             of
             Overt
             Acts
             too
             ,
             as
             I
             shall
             observe
             anon
             .
          
           
             His
             Lordship
             was
             pleased
             at
             the
             beginning
             of
             our
             Evidence
             to
             desire
             that
             the
             Witnesses
             might
             look
             him
             in
             the
             Face
             ,
             and
             for
             that
             he
             cited
             two
             Statutes
             ,
             I
             supposed
             he
             intended
             the
             Statutes
             of
             1.
             
             &
             5.
             of
             Edw.
             6.
             which
             Statutes
             ,
             or
             at
             least
             one
             of
             them
             ,
             do
             say
             ,
             That
             there
             shall
             be
             in
             Case
             of
             High
             Treason
             two
             Witnesses
             to
             accuse
             ,
             and
             those
             two
             Witnesses
             brought
             face
             to
             face
             at
             the
             time
             of
             the
             Tryal
             .
             And
             my
             Lord
             hath
             had
             the
             benefit
             of
             those
             Laws
             ,
             he
             hath
             had
             two
             ,
             nay
             three
             Witnesses
             to
             prove
             him
             Guilty
             ,
             brought
             face
             to
             face
             before
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             and
             if
             these
             three
             ,
             or
             any
             two
             of
             them
             ,
             deserve
             to
             be
             credited
             ,
             my
             Lord
             in
             this
             Case
             is
             Guilty
             of
             High
             Treason
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             must
             beg
             the
             favour
             of
             looking
             upon
             my
             Paper
             of
             Notes
             ,
             for
             the
             truth
             is
             ,
             the
             Witnesses
             are
             so
             many
             ,
             and
             the
             proceeding
             hath
             held
             so
             long
             ,
             that
             it
             is
             impossible
             for
             my
             weak
             memory
             to
             retain
             all
             that
             was
             said
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             the
             first
             Witness
             we
             began
             withall
             was
             Dugdale
             .
             And
             I
             know
             your
             Lordships
             did
             take
             notice
             what
             he
             swore
             ,
             but
             it
             will
             be
             my
             Duty
             to
             remind
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             That
             he
             tells
             you
             ,
             That
             he
             had
             heard
             of
             a
             general
             Design
             of
             making
             preparations
             to
             be
             ready
             against
             the
             Kings
             Death
             ,
             and
             this
             for
             several
             years
             past
             .
             But
             as
             to
             the
             matter
             of
             hastening
             the
             Death
             of
             the
             King
             ,
             that
             was
             but
             a
             late
             Counsel
             .
             He
             tells
             you
             ,
             I
             think
             ,
             that
             about
             the
             latter
             end
             of
             August
             ,
             or
             the
             beginning
             of
             September
             ,
             1678.
             
             Evers
             and
             other
             Jesuits
             were
             at
             Tixal
             ,
             That
             there
             was
             a
             Consult
             then
             about
             the
             Kings
             Death
             ,
             and
             that
             (
             by
             the
             means
             of
             Evers
             ,
             who
             was
             a
             very
             great
             Man
             among
             them
             ,
             but
             since
             fled
             ,
             and
             is
             mentioned
             in
             the
             Impeachment
             )
             he
             was
             admitted
             to
             that
             Consult
             ,
             and
             heard
             particularly
             what
             every
             man
             said
             ;
             and
             he
             does
             take
             upon
             him
             to
             say
             ,
             That
             at
             that
             time
             the
             matter
             of
             taking
             away
             the
             Kings
             Life
             was
             propounded
             ,
             and
             that
             my
             Lord
             ,
             the
             Prisoner
             at
             the
             Bar
             ,
             did
             consent
             to
             it
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             He
             tells
             you
             further
             ,
             That
             upon
             a
             Sunday
             Morning
             my
             Lord
             came
             from
             Stafford
             to
             Tixal
             to
             Masse
             ;
             my
             Lord
             was
             pleased
             to
             observe
             that
             we
             do
             not
             prove
             him
             a
             Papist
             ,
             but
             we
             prove
             my
             Lord
             came
             to
             Masse
             ,
             and
             that
             I
             think
             is
             one
             good
             Proof
             of
             his
             being
             a
             Papist
             .
             Besides
             ,
             Dugdale
             swears
             my
             Lord
             did
             then
             complain
             ,
             That
             they
             had
             not
             the
             free
             Exercise
             of
             their
             Religion
             ,
             that
             they
             could
             not
             say
             their
             Prayers
             openly
             ;
             What
             were
             they
             ?
             Not
             the
             Prayers
             of
             Protestants
             ,
             not
             those
             contained
             in
             the
             Liturgy
             of
             our
             Church
             .
             He
             could
             not
             complain
             of
             any
             restraint
             as
             to
             them
             ,
             but
             complain
             he
             did
             that
             they
             had
             not
             the
             free
             Exercise
             of
             their
             Religion
             ,
             but
             he
             did
             hope
             ,
             if
             things
             succeeded
             well
             ,
             in
             a
             short
             time
             ,
             it
             would
             be
             otherwise
             .
             This
             is
             particularly
             sworn
             by
             Dugdale
             .
          
           
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             His
             Lordship
             was
             very
             much
             unsatisfied
             ,
             That
             Dugdale
             was
             not
             particular
             in
             point
             of
             time
             ,
             he
             did
             talk
             of
             some
             matters
             to
             be
             in
             August
             or
             September
             ,
             but
             could
             not
             fix
             to
             any
             day
             .
             But
             your
             Lordships
             will
             remember
             ,
             that
             as
             to
             one
             particular
             ,
             and
             which
             mainly
             concerns
             his
             Lordship
             to
             answer
             ,
             he
             comes
             to
             a
             day
             ,
             or
             within
             a
             day
             ,
             for
             he
             swears
             positively
             ,
             That
             upon
             the
             20.
             or
             21.
             of
             September
             he
             was
             sent
             for
             to
             my
             Lords
             Chamber
             ,
             the
             Servants
             were
             put
             out
             ,
             that
             there
             my
             Lord
             did
             propose
             to
             him
             in
             express
             terms
             ,
             the
             matter
             of
             Killing
             of
             the
             King.
             He
             would
             have
             him
             be
             an
             Actor
             in
             it
             ,
             and
             he
             offered
             him
             a
             Reward
             of
             500
             l.
             to
             perform
             it
             .
             For
             this
             which
             is
             the
             most
             material
             part
             of
             his
             particular
             Evidence
             against
             my
             Lord
             ,
             he
             is
             certain
             't
             was
             either
             on
             the
             20.
             or
             21.
             of
             September
             ;
             and
             he
             tells
             your
             Lordships
             how
             he
             comes
             to
             remember
             the
             time
             ,
             by
             a
             good
             Token
             ,
             by
             the
             Foot-Race
             that
             was
             then
             to
             be
             run
             ;
             and
             I
             do
             not
             perceive
             that
             my
             Lord
             does
             deny
             ,
             but
             rather
             acknowledge
             that
             Dugdale
             was
             in
             his
             Chamber
             at
             that
             time
             .
             'T
             is
             true
             ,
             he
             does
             deny
             some
             other
             Circumstances
             which
             I
             shall
             answer
             anon
             .
             And
             here
             I
             do
             think
             Dugdale
             undertakes
             to
             swear
             to
             that
             which
             will
             amount
             to
             an
             Overt
             Act
             ,
             and
             a
             damnable
             one
             too
             ,
             that
             is
             the
             offering
             500
             l.
             to
             kill
             the
             King.
             
          
           
             But
             Dugdale
             ,
             it
             seems
             ,
             was
             not
             willing
             to
             depend
             upon
             the
             promises
             of
             my
             Lord
             for
             so
             much
             money
             ,
             his
             Lordship
             had
             not
             that
             credit
             with
             him
             ;
             he
             repairs
             to
             Evers
             ,
             and
             desires
             to
             be
             satisfied
             from
             him
             whether
             he
             might
             rely
             upon
             my
             Lord
             for
             so
             much
             Money
             ,
             Evers
             told
             him
             he
             might
             be
             sure
             to
             have
             the
             Money
             ,
             and
             that
             there
             was
             enough
             in
             Harcourts
             and
             other
             mens
             hands
             for
             the
             carrying
             on
             that
             blessed
             design
             ,
             and
             that
             he
             should
             have
             it
             thence
             .
             I
             might
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             remember
             to
             your
             Lordships
             how
             Dugdale
             does
             particularly
             swear
             concerning
             another
             discourse
             he
             had
             afterwards
             with
             my
             Lord.
             That
             my
             Lord
             complained
             of
             the
             great
             losses
             that
             had
             been
             sustained
             by
             him
             and
             his
             friends
             for
             the
             King
             ,
             how
             in
             particular
             my
             Lord
             
             Aston's
             Father
             had
             lost
             30000
             l.
             and
             what
             resentments
             my
             Lord
             had
             of
             it
             ;
             he
             said
             that
             places
             of
             profit
             were
             rather
             bestowed
             upon
             those
             that
             disserted
             the
             King
             ,
             and
             were
             Rebels
             and
             Traytors
             ,
             than
             on
             those
             that
             did
             him
             faithful
             Service
             ;
             and
             what
             does
             he
             conclude
             from
             thence
             ?
             He
             is
             very
             angry
             with
             the
             King
             ,
             and
             does
             say
             that
             next
             to
             the
             Cause
             of
             Religion
             (
             which
             was
             the
             strongest
             motive
             with
             him
             to
             take
             away
             the
             Kings
             Life
             )
             the
             Kings
             ingratitude
             to
             his
             Loyal
             Subjects
             was
             that
             which
             did
             most
             offend
             him
             .
          
           
             I
             shall
             not
             trouble
             your
             Lordships
             with
             other
             particular
             matters
             which
             were
             to
             serve
             as
             incouragements
             to
             the
             Design
             ,
             as
             that
             there
             was
             to
             be
             a
             Pardon
             from
             the
             Pope
             ;
             that
             my
             Lord
             did
             write
             a
             Letter
             to
             Evers
             ,
             which
             was
             shewn
             to
             Dugdale
             ,
             wherein
             he
             says
             ,
             That
             things
             did
             succeed
             very
             well
             abroad
             ,
             and
             he
             hoped
             they
             would
             do
             so
             at
             home
             .
             I
             shall
             only
             observe
             that
             Dugdales
             Evidence
             ,
             as
             to
             my
             Lords
             damnable
             Design
             of
             killing
             the
             King
             ,
             is
             positive
             and
             full
             .
             And
             if
             this
             be
             to
             be
             believed
             (
             as
             I
             hope
             we
             shall
             shew
             there
             is
             no
             reason
             but
             it
             should
             
             be
             )
             then
             here
             surely
             is
             one
             sufficient
             Witness
             to
             prove
             my
             Lord
             guilty
             of
             the
             Highest
             Treason
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             The
             next
             Witness
             we
             called
             for
             against
             my
             Lord
             was
             Dr.
             Oats
             ;
             and
             I
             think
             Dr.
             Oats
             is
             not
             only
             positive
             ,
             but
             he
             is
             positive
             in
             that
             which
             most
             certainly
             will
             amount
             to
             an
             Overt
             Act
             ,
             nay
             I
             think
             to
             more
             Overt
             Acts
             than
             one
             .
             The
             Doctor
             tells
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             That
             having
             been
             at
             St.
             Omers
             and
             in
             Spain
             ,
             he
             saw
             several
             Letters
             that
             were
             subscribed
             Stafford
             ;
             he
             did
             not
             then
             know
             my
             Lords
             Hand
             ,
             but
             he
             saw
             the
             Letters
             ,
             and
             he
             tells
             you
             the
             effect
             of
             those
             Letters
             .
             And
             I
             remember
             in
             one
             of
             them
             there
             is
             this
             Expression
             ,
             That
             my
             Lord
             (
             the
             Prisoner
             at
             the
             Bar
             )
             does
             give
             Assurance
             to
             the
             Fathers
             that
             he
             is
             very
             zealous
             and
             ready
             to
             do
             them
             service
             .
          
           
             Doctor
             Oats
             tells
             you
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             That
             afterwards
             coming
             into
             England
             ,
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             did
             write
             a
             Letter
             ,
             I
             think
             it
             was
             to
             his
             Son
             ,
             but
             sure
             I
             am
             the
             Doctor
             said
             ,
             he
             had
             the
             carriage
             of
             it
             to
             the
             Post-house
             ,
             that
             he
             saw
             my
             Lord
             write
             it
             ,
             he
             read
             the
             superscription
             ,
             and
             he
             swears
             that
             the
             Hand
             which
             writ
             that
             Letter
             was
             the
             Hand
             which
             subscribed
             to
             all
             the
             former
             .
             And
             so
             then
             joyning
             the
             one
             to
             the
             other
             it
             amounts
             to
             as
             good
             an
             Evidence
             as
             if
             he
             had
             known
             my
             Lords
             Hand
             from
             the
             beginning
             .
          
           
             But
             that
             which
             comes
             home
             to
             my
             Lord
             ,
             is
             that
             which
             Doctor
             Oats
             saw
             ,
             and
             that
             which
             Doctor
             Oats
             heard
             ;
             and
             they
             are
             these
             particulars
             which
             I
             now
             mention
             .
          
           
             First
             ,
             he
             saw
             a
             Commission
             directed
             to
             my
             Lord
             to
             be
             Pay-master
             of
             the
             Army
             ,
             he
             saw
             it
             delivered
             to
             my
             Lords
             own
             Hand
             and
             my
             Lord
             accepted
             it
             .
             Doctor
             Oats
             read
             the
             Commission
             ,
             and
             he
             tells
             you
             by
             whom
             it
             was
             signed
             
               Johannes
               Paulus
               Oliva
            
             ,
             a
             person
             substituted
             by
             the
             Pope
             to
             issue
             out
             Commissions
             ;
             he
             tells
             you
             the
             Contents
             of
             it
             ,
             and
             of
             this
             he
             swears
             he
             was
             an
             Ocular
             Witness
             .
          
           
             He
             tells
             you
             of
             another
             Matter
             he
             heard
             my
             Lord
             say
             ,
             as
             considerable
             as
             the
             other
             ,
             That
             when
             my
             Lord
             had
             received
             the
             Commission
             ,
             my
             Lord
             declared
             that
             he
             was
             to
             go
             down
             into
             Staffordshire
             and
             Lancashire
             ,
             where
             he
             was
             to
             put
             things
             in
             readiness
             .
             What
             were
             those
             things
             ?
             He
             had
             now
             a
             Commission
             by
             vertue
             of
             which
             in
             Lancashire
             ,
             and
             the
             other
             places
             ,
             h●
             was
             to
             prepare
             and
             gather
             Monies
             for
             that
             Army
             which
             he
             was
             to
             pay
             .
             So
             much
             Doctor
             Oats
             doth
             swear
             he
             heard
             from
             my
             Lords
             own
             mouth
             .
          
           
             But
             there
             is
             one
             thing
             further
             which
             I
             had
             almost
             forgot
             .
             He
             doth
             swear
             that
             my
             Lord
             was
             privy
             to
             ,
             and
             approved
             of
             ,
             the
             Matter
             of
             killing
             of
             the
             King.
             For
             he
             doth
             swear
             he
             did
             hear
             my
             Lord
             say
             at
             that
             time
             ,
             
               He
               hoped
               before
               he
               returned
               ,
               Honest
               William
            
             (
             who
             was
             Grove
             that
             was
             executed
             for
             this
             Attempt
             )
             
               would
               have
               done
               the
               business
            
             .
             And
             what
             that
             business
             was
             every
             
             man
             who
             hath
             heard
             of
             Groves
             Treason
             must
             needs
             understand
             .
          
           
             There
             is
             but
             one
             thing
             more
             that
             I
             remember
             of
             Doctor
             Oats
             his
             Testimony
             .
             Your
             Lordships
             that
             have
             a
             better
             advantage
             to
             write
             than
             we
             ,
             who
             are
             crowded
             together
             ,
             may
             have
             taken
             Notes
             of
             more
             ;
             but
             this
             one
             thing
             I
             do
             observe
             ,
             Doctor
             Oats
             doth
             expresly
             swear
             ,
             that
             my
             Lord
             bore
             a
             very
             ill
             mind
             towards
             his
             Majesty
             ;
             for
             my
             Lord
             did
             in
             his
             hearing
             complain
             ,
             
               That
               the
               King
               had
               deceived
               them
               a
               great
               while
               ,
               and
               that
               they
               would
               bear
               with
               him
               no
               longer
               ,
               he
               should
               deceive
               them
               no
               more
               .
            
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             Our
             third
             Witness
             was
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             ,
             who
             doth
             give
             you
             an
             account
             ,
             that
             he
             being
             first
             sent
             to
             Doway
             ,
             and
             intended
             to
             be
             entred
             there
             in
             one
             of
             the
             Societies
             ,
             (
             he
             was
             sent
             by
             my
             Lord
             Powis
             and
             my
             Lady
             Powis
             ,
             and
             some
             of
             his
             Relations
             of
             that
             Religion
             ,
             for
             that
             purpose
             )
             he
             did
             not
             like
             the
             Company
             ,
             he
             was
             not
             pleased
             with
             the
             Exercises
             of
             that
             Religion
             ,
             and
             that
             with
             much
             difficulty
             he
             escaped
             thence
             and
             came
             for
             England
             :
             But
             finding
             he
             was
             not
             well
             look'd
             upon
             here
             ,
             nor
             well
             received
             by
             his
             Relations
             ,
             he
             went
             over
             to
             France
             .
             That
             being
             at
             Paris
             he
             came
             into
             the
             company
             of
             the
             three
             Fathers
             I
             named
             before
             ,
             Father
             Sherborn
             ,
             Father
             Nelson
             ,
             and
             Father
             Turbervill
             ,
             the
             last
             whereof
             he
             tells
             you
             was
             his
             own
             Brother
             .
             That
             by
             the
             means
             of
             these
             Priests
             he
             was
             brought
             acquainted
             with
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             ,
             and
             doubtless
             they
             were
             able
             to
             make
             him
             intimately
             acquainted
             with
             my
             Lord.
             And
             it
             did
             prove
             so
             ;
             for
             he
             tells
             you
             ,
             after
             some
             time
             ,
             that
             in
             a
             lower
             Room
             of
             my
             Lords
             Lodging
             my
             Lord
             proposed
             to
             him
             the
             business
             of
             killing
             the
             King.
             That
             he
             did
             not
             at
             all
             like
             it
             ,
             was
             very
             unwilling
             to
             undertake
             it
             ,
             but
             my
             Lord
             bid
             him
             consider
             of
             it
             ,
             and
             that
             he
             should
             give
             him
             his
             Answer
             at
             Diep
             ,
             having
             enjoyned
             him
             secrecy
             ;
             but
             my
             Lord
             after
             sent
             him
             word
             he
             would
             go
             by
             Calice
             ;
             and
             the
             Witness
             afterwards
             went
             into
             England
             ,
             and
             from
             thence
             into
             the
             French
             Army
             .
             And
             this
             is
             the
             substance
             of
             what
             Turbervill
             deposeth
             .
          
           
             And
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             think
             it
             will
             not
             be
             doubted
             by
             any
             man
             that
             will
             consider
             these
             three
             mens
             Testimonies
             ,
             but
             that
             here
             are
             two
             Witnesses
             ,
             if
             not
             more
             ,
             to
             prove
             my
             Lord
             Guilty
             of
             Treason
             .
          
           
             But
             my
             Lord
             has
             been
             pleased
             against
             them
             to
             make
             several
             Objections
             ;
             some
             have
             been
             by
             Witnesses
             which
             he
             hath
             produced
             to
             incounter
             the
             Proofs
             that
             we
             have
             offered
             ;
             and
             some
             of
             them
             have
             been
             by
             Observations
             that
             he
             hath
             made
             upon
             what
             hath
             been
             said
             by
             our
             Witnesses
             and
             his
             .
             I
             will
             keep
             to
             Order
             as
             much
             as
             I
             can
             not
             confound
             the
             Order
             and
             Method
             of
             his
             Defence
             .
          
           
             The
             Witnesses
             he
             first
             brought
             were
             against
             Dugdale
             ,
             and
             of
             them
             his
             Lordship
             was
             pleased
             to
             begin
             with
             his
             Daughter
             ,
             the
             Lady
             Marchioness
             of
             Winchester
             ,
             and
             his
             Niece
             Mrs.
             Howard
             .
             Your
             Lordships
             ,
             I
             presume
             ,
             are
             pleased
             to
             observe
             what
             they
             were
             called
             to
             .
             They
             did
             testifie
             ,
             that
             ,
             being
             at
             
             
             Wakeman's
             Tryal
             ,
             they
             did
             hear
             Dugdale
             swear
             (
             says
             my
             Lady
             Marchioness
             of
             Winchester
             )
             that
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             was
             to
             come
             down
             into
             Staffordshire
             in
             June
             or
             July
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             was
             then
             to
             receive
             Orders
             from
             my
             Lord
             ,
             and
             he
             swore
             (
             as
             she
             was
             pleased
             to
             say
             )
             that
             there
             was
             a
             Consult
             in
             August
             at
             Tixall
             ,
             and
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             was
             there
             present
             .
             Mrs.
             Howard
             ,
             for
             I
             put
             them
             together
             ,
             was
             pleased
             to
             say
             that
             she
             was
             present
             at
             that
             Tryal
             ,
             and
             there
             Dugdale
             swore
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             did
             come
             down
             in
             June
             or
             July
             ,
             and
             that
             my
             Lord
             was
             at
             the
             Consult
             in
             August
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             will
             not
             make
             Objections
             neither
             to
             the
             Religion
             of
             these
             Ladies
             ,
             nor
             to
             the
             Relation
             to
             my
             Lord
             ,
             though
             those
             be
             matters
             that
             are
             to
             be
             considered
             .
             But
             that
             which
             I
             shall
             observe
             to
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             is
             this
             ,
             That
             they
             do
             not
             agree
             one
             with
             another
             ;
             For
             my
             Lady
             Winchester
             says
             ,
             Dugdale
             did
             swear
             that
             my
             Lord
             was
             to
             come
             down
             in
             June
             or
             July
             ,
             and
             Mrs.
             Howard
             says
             ,
             that
             he
             swore
             he
             did
             come
             down
             then
             .
             Now
             there
             is
             a
             great
             difference
             betwixt
             swearing
             an
             intention
             that
             a
             man
             was
             to
             come
             down
             ,
             and
             swearing
             the
             very
             Act
             that
             he
             did
             come
             down
             at
             that
             time
             .
             By
             which
             your
             Lordships
             may
             observe
             how
             hard
             a
             matter
             it
             is
             for
             Witnesses
             that
             are
             present
             at
             a
             Tryal
             (
             especially
             at
             a
             Tryal
             which
             did
             not
             directly
             ,
             though
             it
             might
             in
             consequence
             concern
             another
             Person
             of
             their
             Relation
             )
             to
             take
             notice
             exactly
             of
             things
             .
          
           
             And
             truly
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             these
             Ladies
             being
             of
             that
             Religion
             might
             have
             so
             much
             concern
             upon
             them
             for
             Sir
             
               George
               Wakeman
            
             ,
             the
             Popish
             Physician
             ,
             and
             in
             him
             for
             other
             their
             friends
             of
             that
             party
             ,
             that
             they
             might
             not
             have
             so
             much
             liberty
             of
             thought
             as
             to
             observe
             exactly
             all
             circumstances
             sworn
             to
             by
             the
             Witnesses
             ,
             and
             therefore
             it
             is
             no
             great
             matter
             if
             they
             are
             mistaken
             in
             them
             .
             But
             I
             believe
             if
             any
             one
             do
             consult
             the
             Print
             (
             though
             it
             be
             no
             Evidence
             nor
             offer'd
             as
             such
             )
             he
             will
             find
             no
             such
             thing
             was
             at
             that
             time
             sworn
             ,
             for
             it
             is
             not
             so
             printed
             ,
             and
             those
             that
             took
             notes
             did
             not
             understand
             it
             so
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             The
             next
             Witness
             my
             Lord
             is
             pleased
             to
             bring
             is
             his
             Servant
             Furnese
             ;
             and
             what
             is
             it
             that
             he
             testifieth
             ?
             He
             saith
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             with
             my
             Lord
             the
             whole
             time
             that
             Dugdale
             was
             in
             my
             Lords
             Chamber
             ,
             and
             he
             doth
             not
             remember
             that
             ever
             Dugdale
             was
             there
             but
             once
             ,
             and
             he
             doth
             not
             remember
             that
             ever
             my
             Lord
             bid
             him
             go
             out
             of
             the
             Room
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             it
             is
             a
             very
             hard
             matter
             for
             a
             man
             to
             come
             thus
             in
             the
             Negative
             ,
             to
             remember
             how
             often
             Dugdale
             was
             there
             ,
             especially
             there
             being
             no
             more
             occasion
             to
             take
             notice
             of
             it
             then
             ,
             than
             here
             appears
             to
             be
             ,
             and
             that
             after
             so
             long
             a
             time
             .
             And
             it
             is
             a
             very
             hard
             matter
             for
             a
             Servant
             to
             gain
             Credit
             ,
             by
             saying
             his
             Master
             never
             bid
             him
             go
             out
             of
             the
             Room
             in
             his
             life
             .
             These
             things
             may
             be
             done
             or
             said
             ,
             and
             yet
             escape
             the
             memory
             of
             a
             Servant
             of
             more
             Age
             and
             of
             less
             inclination
             to
             favour
             his
             Master
             then
             this
             person
             appears
             to
             be
             of
             and
             to
             have
             .
             Therefore
             I
             think
             there
             will
             be
             but
             a
             very
             small
             matter
             made
             of
             what
             he
             said
             ,
             no
             force
             at
             all
             in
             it
             ,
             and
             I
             believe
             your
             Lordships
             will
             give
             very
             little
             regard
             to
             it
             ,
             but
             rather
             believe
             
             those
             Witnesses
             that
             swear
             positively
             ,
             that
             they
             have
             seen
             him
             with
             my
             Lord
             and
             speak
             to
             a
             familiarity
             at
             that
             time
             between
             them
             .
             This
             young
             man
             Furnese
             was
             my
             Lords
             Servant
             ,
             and
             of
             his
             Religion
             ;
             and
             it
             is
             considerable
             whether
             we
             have
             not
             reason
             to
             be
             afraid
             that
             more
             than
             ordinary
             Practice
             has
             been
             used
             to
             prepare
             Evidence
             on
             my
             Lords
             behalf
             ,
             which
             I
             shall
             have
             occasion
             to
             speak
             to
             when
             I
             come
             to
             the
             other
             Witnesses
             .
          
           
             His
             next
             Witness
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             was
             his
             Boy
             
               George
               Leigh
            
             ,
             who
             is
             Fifteen
             years
             of
             Age
             now
             ,
             and
             was
             Eight
             years
             old
             when
             he
             came
             to
             my
             Lord
             Seven
             years
             ago
             .
             And
             he
             attests
             the
             same
             thing
             ,
             and
             to
             the
             same
             purpose
             with
             the
             other
             .
             And
             I
             think
             I
             may
             leave
             him
             with
             the
             same
             Answer
             ,
             for
             we
             are
             nothing
             more
             concerned
             with
             him
             than
             we
             were
             with
             the
             other
             .
             Only
             one
             thing
             I
             would
             observe
             ,
             to
             shew
             that
             his
             Memory
             was
             imperfect
             ,
             he
             doth
             not
             remember
             that
             Dugdale
             was
             with
             my
             Lord
             at
             all
             that
             day
             ,
             which
             my
             Lord
             himself
             doth
             acknowledge
             he
             was
             ,
             and
             the
             other
             Witness
             agrees
             .
             So
             that
             there
             cannot
             be
             any
             great
             weight
             laid
             upon
             what
             he
             saith
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             next
             Witness
             was
             
               Thomas
               Sawyer
            
             ,
             and
             he
             is
             one
             of
             my
             Lord
             
             Aston's
             Servants
             ,
             that
             I
             desire
             to
             observe
             of
             him
             first
             .
             And
             what
             does
             he
             say
             ?
             He
             saith
             ,
             That
             Dugdale
             went
             away
             for
             Debt
             .
             The
             contrary
             to
             which
             was
             apparently
             proved
             ,
             for
             we
             ,
             by
             our
             Witnesses
             ,
             made
             it
             manifest
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             went
             away
             for
             the
             matter
             of
             the
             Plot
             ;
             the
             fear
             and
             dread
             he
             was
             in
             upon
             that
             score
             :
             and
             the
             circumstance
             of
             his
             being
             apprehended
             by
             the
             Watch
             at
             Night
             in
             his
             Flight
             ,
             and
             how
             he
             was
             put
             to
             take
             the
             Oaths
             ,
             do
             manifestly
             prove
             this
             .
             But
             he
             says
             another
             thing
             ,
             which
             I
             desire
             may
             have
             no
             weight
             with
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             should
             threaten
             ,
             that
             because
             my
             Lord
             Aston
             would
             not
             own
             him
             for
             his
             Servant
             ,
             he
             would
             be
             revenged
             of
             him
             .
             Truly
             ,
             if
             my
             Lord
             Aston
             were
             here
             to
             be
             tried
             ,
             it
             would
             have
             some
             weight
             .
             But
             to
             think
             if
             it
             were
             true
             ,
             that
             he
             had
             so
             sworn
             ,
             that
             therefore
             he
             would
             be
             so
             wicked
             as
             to
             do
             mischief
             to
             another
             man
             ,
             that
             he
             would
             be
             revenged
             of
             every
             man
             of
             that
             Religion
             ,
             or
             of
             every
             man
             that
             came
             to
             my
             Lord
             
             Aston's
             House
             ;
             That
             cannot
             be
             imagined
             .
             So
             I
             cannot
             see
             what
             great
             stress
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             the
             Prisoner
             can
             lay
             upon
             it
             ,
             as
             to
             the
             present
             Tryal
             ,
             which
             concerns
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             desire
             to
             observe
             ,
             that
             he
             says
             further
             ,
             That
             when
             Dugdale
             went
             away
             there
             was
             a
             discourse
             of
             a
             Plot
             ;
             (
             this
             he
             helps
             out
             Dugdale
             in
             ;
             )
             and
             that
             there
             was
             a
             discourse
             of
             the
             killing
             of
             a
             Justice
             of
             Peace
             .
             So
             that
             certainly
             it
             does
             shew
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             was
             apprehensive
             of
             the
             Plot.
             And
             as
             to
             that
             which
             he
             is
             pleased
             to
             say
             ,
             That
             Dugdale
             should
             deny
             his
             knowledge
             of
             the
             Plot
             ,
             and
             take
             Drink
             ,
             and
             with
             Execrations
             forswear
             it
             ;
             it
             will
             be
             no
             manner
             of
             Objection
             at
             all
             .
             For
             I
             shall
             have
             occasion
             to
             shew
             hereafter
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             at
             that
             time
             was
             very
             far
             from
             revealing
             the
             Plot
             ,
             he
             had
             been
             so
             long
             ingaged
             in
             ,
             he
             was
             in
             apprehension
             of
             the
             danger
             of
             his
             own
             life
             ,
             and
             Southall
             
             tells
             you
             how
             and
             when
             he
             revealed
             it
             ,
             and
             by
             what
             inducements
             he
             was
             prevailed
             upon
             to
             do
             it
             .
          
           
             The
             next
             Witness
             my
             Lord
             called
             was
             Philips
             ,
             the
             Minister
             of
             Tixal
             ;
             and
             truly
             all
             that
             I
             can
             accuse
             him
             of
             ,
             is
             ,
             want
             of
             Memory
             ,
             and
             that
             is
             no
             fault
             in
             a
             man
             ,
             that
             perhaps
             is
             very
             studious
             and
             careful
             in
             his
             Imployment
             as
             I
             hope
             he
             is
             .
             He
             tells
             you
             ,
             that
             whereas
             Dugdale
             swore
             at
             a
             former
             Tryal
             ,
             that
             he
             acquainted
             Mr.
             Philips
             with
             the
             death
             of
             a
             Justice
             of
             Peace
             of
             Westminster
             on
             the
             Munday
             ,
             that
             he
             did
             not
             acquaint
             him
             with
             it
             ,
             that
             is
             ,
             he
             does
             not
             remember
             it
             ,
             for
             no
             man
             that
             swears
             a
             Negative
             ,
             can
             swear
             more
             .
             But
             whether
             Mr.
             Philips
             Evidence
             be
             of
             any
             consequence
             to
             us
             ,
             we
             submit
             to
             your
             Lordships
             consideration
             ;
             when
             we
             oppose
             to
             his
             want
             of
             Memory
             ,
             two
             Witnesses
             that
             swear
             he
             was
             by
             when
             this
             News
             was
             told
             ;
             and
             we
             are
             told
             likewise
             ,
             as
             a
             confirmation
             of
             that
             ,
             by
             two
             Gentlemen
             of
             Quality
             ,
             that
             the
             report
             of
             such
             a
             thing
             was
             spread
             abroad
             all
             over
             that
             Country
             ;
             before
             it
             was
             possible
             for
             it
             to
             come
             by
             the
             way
             of
             ordinary
             Intelligence
             ,
             whether
             therefore
             what
             Mr.
             Philips
             testifies
             proceeds
             from
             any
             other
             cause
             ,
             than
             want
             of
             memory
             in
             Mr.
             Philips
             ,
             I
             must
             leave
             to
             your
             Lordships
             consideration
             .
          
           
             But
             this
             I
             would
             observe
             to
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             that
             when
             Mr.
             Philips
             was
             asked
             by
             my
             Lord
             ,
             whether
             or
             no
             Dugdale
             were
             a
             person
             likely
             to
             perjure
             himself
             ,
             he
             could
             not
             say
             so
             :
             Nay
             ,
             being
             asked
             of
             what
             Reputation
             he
             was
             of
             ,
             he
             said
             ,
             by
             some
             ,
             he
             was
             very
             well
             spoken
             of
             ,
             by
             some
             but
             indifferently
             ;
             but
             I
             do
             not
             remember
             ,
             that
             he
             said
             ,
             he
             was
             ill
             spoken
             of
             by
             any
             .
             So
             I
             think
             Mr.
             Philips
             has
             rather
             advanced
             than
             prejudiced
             Mr.
             
             Dugdale's
             Reputation
             and
             Credit
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             think
             I
             may
             lightly
             pass
             over
             the
             three
             Justices
             of
             Peace
             that
             were
             brought
             to
             give
             an
             Account
             of
             
             Dugdale's
             behaviour
             before
             them
             ,
             and
             not
             mention
             them
             distinctly
             ,
             because
             they
             swear
             all
             to
             the
             same
             purpose
             ,
             That
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             was
             apprehended
             upon
             suspition
             of
             the
             Plot
             ,
             that
             he
             took
             the
             Oaths
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             invited
             and
             urged
             by
             them
             to
             make
             a
             discovery
             of
             the
             Plot
             ,
             which
             he
             then
             denied
             to
             have
             any
             knowledge
             of
             :
             For
             all
             this
             will
             be
             answered
             ,
             when
             we
             come
             to
             re-mind
             Your
             Lordships
             of
             Mr.
             
             Southall's
             Testimony
             .
          
           
             His
             Lordship
             was
             pleased
             in
             the
             next
             place
             ,
             to
             offer
             to
             prove
             Dugdale
             an
             ill
             Man
             ,
             by
             endeavouring
             to
             suborn
             Witnesses
             :
             And
             in
             the
             first
             place
             he
             called
             Robinson
             ,
             who
             testified
             a
             very
             unlikely
             thing
             ,
             that
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             should
             call
             him
             in
             the
             Street
             ,
             and
             bring
             him
             to
             an
             House
             ,
             and
             offer
             him
             Money
             to
             swear
             against
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             ;
             which
             Money
             he
             had
             in
             an
             Handkerchief
             ,
             but
             did
             not
             tell
             him
             what
             particulars
             he
             should
             swear
             to
             :
             Nay
             ,
             and
             this
             after
             he
             had
             told
             him
             he
             could
             swear
             nothing
             .
             And
             it
             does
             not
             appear
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             had
             any
             manner
             of
             knowledge
             of
             him
             ,
             or
             that
             this
             Gentleman
             ,
             Robinson
             had
             any
             knowledge
             of
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             :
             So
             that
             it
             was
             a
             very
             rash
             and
             presumptuous
             thing
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             should
             attempt
             a
             man
             that
             he
             knew
             not
             ,
             and
             a
             very
             imprudent
             thing
             ,
             
             that
             he
             should
             suborn
             a
             Witness
             ,
             to
             swear
             against
             a
             man
             that
             the
             Witness
             to
             be
             suborned
             did
             not
             know
             .
             But
             I
             shall
             say
             no
             more
             of
             him
             ,
             because
             I
             think
             upon
             the
             Account
             that
             has
             been
             given
             of
             him
             by
             a
             Noble
             Earl
             of
             this
             House
             ,
             and
             an
             Honourable
             Member
             of
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             ,
             if
             he
             had
             said
             things
             in
             themselves
             probable
             ,
             he
             deserves
             not
             in
             the
             least
             to
             be
             believed
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             next
             Witness
             upon
             the
             same
             Head
             of
             Subornation
             was
             one
             Morral
             ,
             a
             poor
             Barber
             ;
             and
             what
             says
             he
             ?
             He
             testifies
             that
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             did
             offer
             him
             50
             l.
             to
             swear
             against
             Sir
             
               James
               Symons
            
             and
             some
             others
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             whether
             this
             be
             probable
             or
             no
             ,
             we
             must
             leave
             to
             your
             Lordships
             .
             We
             have
             called
             Witnesses
             that
             prove
             him
             a
             man
             of
             no
             Reputation
             ,
             one
             that
             runs
             up
             and
             down
             the
             Countrey
             ,
             a
             kind
             of
             Vagabond
             ,
             and
             I
             think
             ,
             (
             upon
             the
             Endeavours
             that
             have
             been
             proved
             to
             have
             been
             used
             as
             to
             others
             )
             it
             is
             no
             very
             hard
             matter
             to
             bring
             a
             man
             of
             his
             Condition
             to
             say
             as
             much
             as
             he
             hath
             done
             .
          
           
             The
             next
             Witness
             is
             
               Samuel
               Holt
            
             the
             Blacksmith
             ;
             and
             he
             tells
             such
             a
             Story
             ,
             that
             if
             it
             were
             true
             ,
             would
             be
             some
             Disparagement
             to
             Dugdale
             ,
             and
             what
             is
             that
             ?
             He
             says
             that
             Dugdale
             sent
             a
             Man
             and
             a
             Horse
             for
             him
             ,
             to
             bring
             him
             to
             the
             Star
             in
             Stafford
             ;
             and
             there
             offer'd
             him
             40
             l.
             to
             swear
             that
             one
             Moore
             carried
             away
             Evers
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             how
             this
             Story
             comes
             in
             I
             cannot
             imagine
             ,
             why
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             should
             bear
             any
             ill
             will
             to
             Moore
             ,
             or
             what
             should
             induce
             him
             to
             intice
             this
             man
             to
             swear
             against
             Moore
             ,
             or
             what
             else
             was
             in
             it
             ,
             it
             doth
             not
             appear
             .
             But
             no
             matter
             what
             it
             is
             for
             ;
             we
             prove
             against
             this
             man
             by
             two
             Witnesses
             ,
             Rawlins
             and
             Lander
             .
             By
             the
             First
             ,
             that
             he
             is
             a
             man
             of
             ill
             Reputation
             ,
             very
             zealous
             to
             support
             the
             Plot
             ,
             and
             cry
             down
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             ,
             saying
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             a
             Rogue
             and
             all
             they
             were
             Rogues
             that
             took
             part
             with
             him
             .
             And
             by
             the
             other
             Witness
             Lander
             ,
             that
             Holt
             did
             make
             an
             Assault
             upon
             him
             ,
             and
             would
             have
             killed
             him
             for
             being
             ready
             to
             appear
             against
             my
             Lord
             Aston
             at
             his
             intended
             Tryal
             .
             So
             that
             he
             is
             a
             man
             that
             has
             more
             Zeal
             than
             Honesty
             .
             Zeal
             in
             no
             good
             matter
             ,
             namely
             to
             hinder
             the
             Truth
             from
             coming
             out
             against
             my
             Lord
             Aston
             ;
             and
             therefore
             we
             have
             little
             reason
             to
             wonder
             :
             Nay
             ,
             all
             the
             reason
             in
             the
             world
             to
             believe
             ,
             that
             he
             says
             that
             which
             is
             untrue
             about
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             There
             was
             another
             Witness
             ,
             Mr.
             Lydcott
             ,
             that
             said
             ,
             he
             was
             a
             Fellow
             of
             
               King's
               Colledge
            
             in
             Cambridge
             .
             He
             has
             offered
             no
             proofs
             that
             he
             was
             so
             ;
             and
             truly
             it
             is
             very
             improbable
             he
             should
             be
             so
             :
             For
             I
             hope
             Fellowships
             in
             the
             University
             ,
             especially
             in
             one
             of
             the
             chief
             Colledges
             (
             as
             this
             is
             )
             are
             bestowed
             upon
             more
             deserving
             ,
             and
             less
             suspitious
             Persons
             than
             he
             appears
             to
             be
             :
             A
             Man
             that
             owns
             himself
             the
             continual
             Companion
             and
             Secretary
             of
             one
             so
             famous
             in
             the
             Popish
             Party
             as
             my
             Lord
             Castlemain
             is
             :
             A
             Man
             that
             pretends
             he
             was
             never
             out
             of
             his
             Company
             ;
             and
             a
             man
             that
             owns
             ,
             that
             two
             years
             since
             ,
             he
             was
             taking
             of
             Notes
             at
             a
             Tryal
             for
             this
             Plot
             ,
             not
             only
             for
             his
             own
             curiosity
             ,
             but
             for
             the
             service
             of
             his
             Lord
             ,
             who
             was
             concerned
             in
             the
             Accusation
             .
             That
             this
             Man
             should
             be
             a
             Fellow
             of
             
               King's
               Colledge
            
             ,
             seems
             strange
             ,
             and
             till
             it
             be
             better
             proved
             
             will
             hardly
             be
             believed
             ;
             nor
             will
             he
             deserve
             any
             Credit
             .
             It
             is
             true
             ,
             he
             doth
             acknowledge
             himself
             a
             Protestant
             ,
             and
             to
             be
             of
             the
             Church
             of
             England
             ,
             and
             educated
             as
             he
             says
             a
             Presbyterian
             ;
             but
             when
             he
             was
             asked
             when
             he
             received
             the
             Sacrament
             last
             ,
             I
             do
             not
             remember
             ,
             that
             he
             gave
             your
             Lordships
             any
             Answer
             .
          
           
             This
             Witness
             says
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             at
             the
             Tryal
             of
             the
             Five
             Jesuites
             ;
             and
             there
             Dugdale
             did
             swear
             ,
             that
             he
             gave
             notice
             to
             Mr.
             Philips
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Sambidge
             of
             Sir
             Edmundbury
             Godfrey's
             Death
             :
             And
             this
             they
             would
             make
             to
             be
             a
             great
             Fault
             in
             Dugdale
             ,
             because
             neither
             Philips
             nor
             Sambidge
             remember
             it
             .
             Now
             whether
             Dugdale
             swore
             true
             in
             that
             or
             no
             ,
             does
             not
             depend
             upon
             
             Dugdale's
             own
             Credit
             alone
             ;
             but
             you
             have
             heard
             other
             Witnesses
             have
             made
             it
             appear
             ,
             that
             he
             did
             swear
             true
             :
             So
             that
             we
             need
             not
             say
             any
             thing
             more
             to
             this
             Witness
             ,
             nor
             to
             Gifford
             ,
             who
             testifies
             to
             the
             same
             purpose
             ;
             because
             that
             point
             ,
             as
             to
             the
             report
             of
             the
             death
             of
             the
             Justice
             of
             Peace
             is
             by
             other
             Witnesses
             clearly
             proved
             .
          
           
             And
             as
             for
             Mr.
             Sambidge
             ,
             I
             do
             not
             wonder
             much
             ,
             that
             he
             should
             say
             ,
             he
             did
             not
             hear
             it
             ,
             because
             he
             could
             hardly
             hear
             what
             was
             said
             to
             him
             by
             the
             Court
             ,
             or
             any
             of
             the
             Officers
             set
             near
             him
             on
             purpose
             .
             But
             ,
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             desire
             your
             Lordships
             to
             take
             notice
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             a
             very
             angry
             Witness
             ;
             he
             said
             ,
             he
             had
             formerly
             had
             a
             Controversie
             with
             Dugdale
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             had
             cited
             him
             into
             Litchfield
             Court
             ,
             and
             had
             there
             a
             Suit
             against
             him
             for
             Defamation
             ;
             and
             he
             said
             that
             against
             Dugdale
             ,
             which
             ,
             unless
             better
             proved
             ,
             must
             needs
             make
             Sambidge
             much
             suspected
             :
             He
             said
             ,
             that
             Dugdale
             was
             the
             wickedest
             Man
             on
             Earth
             ;
             but
             what
             proof
             he
             offer'd
             of
             that
             ,
             or
             whether
             he
             did
             instance
             in
             any
             one
             particular
             ,
             I
             leave
             it
             to
             your
             Lordships
             Memories
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             There
             is
             another
             Proof
             relating
             to
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             ,
             not
             out
             of
             the
             mouth
             of
             a
             Witness
             ,
             but
             out
             of
             a
             Paper
             ,
             which
             I
             desire
             to
             give
             an
             Answer
             to
             .
             It
             was
             an
             Objection
             ,
             the
             Prisoner
             at
             the
             Bar
             was
             pleased
             to
             make
             to
             
             Dugdale's
             Information
             ,
             taken
             the
             24.
             of
             December
             1678.
             before
             the
             Justices
             in
             the
             Countrey
             ,
             wherein
             he
             had
             said
             to
             this
             purpose
             ;
             Presently
             after
             one
             Howard
             ,
             Almoner
             to
             the
             Queen
             ,
             went
             over
             ,
             he
             was
             told
             by
             
               George
               Hobson
            
             ,
             that
             there
             was
             a
             Design
             ,
             &c.
             
             This
             ,
             saith
             my
             Lord
             ,
             is
             most
             impossible
             to
             be
             true
             :
             For
             you
             say
             ,
             that
             immediately
             after
             the
             Almoner
             was
             gone
             away
             ,
             Hobson
             told
             you
             this
             ,
             whereas
             Hobson
             went
             away
             with
             the
             Almoner
             ;
             and
             he
             came
             not
             to
             live
             with
             my
             Lord
             Aston
             till
             many
             years
             afterwards
             .
          
           
             This
             my
             Lord
             is
             pleased
             to
             offer
             as
             a
             falsification
             of
             
             Dugdale's
             Testimony
             ;
             but
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             do
             desire
             to
             observe
             that
             this
             is
             an
             Information
             taken
             before
             two
             Justices
             of
             Peace
             in
             the
             Country
             ;
             and
             if
             you
             look
             upon
             it
             ,
             you
             will
             see
             it
             was
             written
             by
             a
             Country
             Clerk
             ,
             and
             not
             very
             skilfully
             done
             .
             '
             T●s
             rather
             short
             Notes
             of
             an
             Examination
             ,
             than
             a
             compleat
             Examination
             .
             And
             your
             Lordships
             will
             please
             likewise
             to
             observe
             ,
             that
             this
             is
             not
             really
             an
             Expression
             that
             is
             clear
             one
             way
             or
             th'
             other
             ,
             but
             capable
             of
             two
             Senses
             ,
             that
             is
             to
             say
             ▪
             either
             it
             may
             import
             Hobson
             told
             him
             there
             was
             a
             Design
             ever
             since
             the
             Almoner
             Howard
             went
             
             away
             ;
             or
             it
             may
             import
             Hobson
             told
             him
             presently
             after
             the
             Almoner
             went
             away
             that
             there
             was
             a
             Design
             .
             Read
             but
             the
             words
             with
             a
             different
             Comma
             ,
             and
             it
             makes
             the
             Sense
             one
             way
             or
             t'other
             .
             Now
             it
             is
             plain
             Dugdale
             could
             not
             intend
             that
             Hobson
             told
             him
             so
             as
             soon
             as
             the
             Almoner
             went
             away
             ,
             because
             Hobson
             went
             away
             with
             the
             Almoner
             .
             And
             it
             was
             better
             to
             his
             purpose
             ,
             that
             Hobson
             should
             tell
             him
             so
             after
             his
             return
             than
             before
             ,
             for
             that
             shews
             the
             Design
             had
             been
             long
             a
             carrying
             on
             .
          
           
             Therefore
             it
             being
             a
             doubtful
             Expression
             that
             may
             refer
             either
             to
             the
             Time
             he
             told
             it
             to
             him
             ,
             or
             to
             the
             Matter
             he
             told
             him
             of
             ,
             and
             being
             taken
             in
             the
             latter
             Sense
             ,
             the
             Objection
             faileth
             :
             I
             think
             this
             Matter
             can
             have
             no
             weight
             at
             all
             in
             it
             to
             falsifie
             a
             positive
             Testimony
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             the
             next
             Witness
             we
             did
             call
             ,
             and
             which
             was
             objected
             against
             by
             my
             Lord
             was
             Dr.
             Oats
             ;
             and
             truly
             I
             must
             observe
             ,
             that
             his
             Lordship
             was
             not
             pleased
             to
             call
             any
             one
             Witness
             materially
             to
             falsifie
             Dr.
             Oats
             his
             Testimony
             ;
             and
             I
             must
             likewise
             observe
             ,
             that
             Dr.
             Oats
             is
             in
             the
             material
             part
             of
             his
             Evidence
             supported
             by
             other
             Evidence
             .
          
           
             When
             Dr.
             Oats
             gave
             Evidence
             at
             former
             Tryals
             ,
             it
             was
             the
             common
             Discourse
             of
             the
             men
             of
             that
             Religion
             ,
             that
             Dr.
             Oats
             had
             never
             been
             in
             Spain
             ,
             nor
             had
             ever
             any
             Credit
             with
             the
             Priests
             or
             Jesuits
             ,
             but
             was
             a
             mean
             contemptible
             person
             ,
             and
             that
             all
             he
             said
             was
             improbable
             .
             But
             now
             your
             Lordships
             have
             heard
             that
             Dr.
             Oats
             ,
             even
             by
             the
             Testimony
             of
             Dennis
             a
             Popish
             Priest
             (
             that
             is
             so
             to
             this
             day
             )
             was
             in
             Spain
             ,
             was
             according
             to
             what
             he
             saith
             ,
             brought
             up
             in
             the
             Colledge
             of
             the
             Jesuits
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             in
             such
             esteem
             there
             ,
             that
             the
             Archbishop
             of
             Tuam
             commended
             him
             very
             much
             in
             the
             presence
             of
             Dennis
             ,
             and
             spoke
             of
             what
             expectation
             there
             was
             of
             him
             .
             So
             that
             Dennis
             the
             Priest
             doth
             support
             Dr.
             Oats
             in
             some
             parts
             of
             his
             Evidence
             .
             I
             do
             not
             speak
             of
             that
             part
             of
             it
             which
             concerns
             this
             particular
             Lord
             ,
             but
             of
             his
             Testimony
             touching
             the
             general
             Plot.
             
          
           
             There
             is
             another
             thing
             wherein
             Dr.
             Oats
             is
             supported
             by
             another
             Witness
             ,
             and
             that
             is
             the
             Esteem
             and
             Intimacy
             he
             had
             with
             the
             Jesuits
             .
             For
             Mr.
             Jenison
             swears
             ,
             that
             Dr.
             Oats
             was
             a
             man
             in
             esteem
             among
             them
             ,
             that
             he
             was
             at
             
             Ireland's
             Chamber
             ,
             and
             had
             discourse
             with
             Ireland
             ,
             and
             did
             appear
             to
             be
             frequently
             imployed
             by
             them
             .
             And
             I
             take
             these
             two
             Witnesses
             to
             be
             a
             great
             support
             to
             Dr.
             Oats
             ,
             as
             to
             the
             General
             Matters
             which
             he
             evidenceth
             of
             the
             Plot.
             
          
           
             What
             now
             doth
             my
             Lord
             object
             against
             Dr.
             Oats
             ?
             He
             call'd
             no
             Witnesses
             against
             him
             ,
             but
             only
             an
             Honourable
             Earl
             of
             this
             House
             ,
             I
             think
             I
             may
             name
             him
             ,
             the
             Earl
             of
             Berkely
             :
             And
             that
             which
             his
             Lordship
             was
             pleased
             to
             testifie
             against
             him
             was
             ,
          
           
             Object
             .
             That
             being
             examined
             at
             the
             House
             of
             Lords
             after
             he
             had
             given
             a
             long
             Evidence
             against
             many
             persons
             ,
             he
             was
             asked
             this
             Question
             ,
             whether
             there
             
             were
             any
             more
             Persons
             of
             Quality
             he
             could
             speak
             against
             ,
             or
             could
             accuse
             ,
             and
             he
             said
             no.
             
          
           
             Answ
             .
             First
             ,
             your
             Lordships
             will
             be
             pleased
             to
             observe
             ,
             that
             this
             was
             after
             he
             had
             accused
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             ,
             my
             Lord
             was
             secured
             in
             the
             Tower
             long
             before
             that
             upon
             Dr.
             Oats
             his
             Testimony
             ,
             and
             so
             he
             could
             not
             exclude
             this
             Lord.
             But
             that
             which
             it
             is
             brought
             for
             (
             I
             suppose
             )
             is
             to
             make
             him
             a
             person
             of
             no
             Credit
             ;
             For
             after
             he
             had
             said
             this
             ,
             he
             proceeded
             to
             an
             Accusation
             of
             the
             Queen
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             humbly
             conceive
             this
             may
             receive
             a
             very
             fair
             Answer
             .
             For
             ,
          
           
             First
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             appeal
             to
             your
             Lordships
             Memories
             (
             for
             ,
             I
             think
             ,
             the
             Matter
             was
             before
             you
             all
             ,
             or
             at
             leastwise
             before
             some
             of
             your
             Lordships
             )
             that
             the
             Accusation
             which
             Dr.
             Oats
             made
             of
             the
             Queen
             was
             not
             positive
             ,
             nor
             of
             his
             own
             certain
             knowledge
             ,
             but
             Words
             which
             he
             heard
             spoken
             in
             a
             Room
             in
             which
             he
             was
             not
             himself
             ,
             but
             coming
             in
             afterwards
             ,
             he
             saw
             the
             Queen
             was
             there
             .
             So
             it
             was
             not
             positive
             ,
             but
             circumstantial
             proof
             ,
             and
             questionable
             whether
             what
             he
             testified
             would
             amount
             to
             the
             proof
             of
             one
             Witness
             .
          
           
             And
             I
             must
             observe
             in
             the
             second
             place
             ,
             it
             might
             not
             be
             so
             clear
             to
             Dr.
             Oats
             ,
             whether
             the
             Queen
             were
             a
             Person
             capable
             of
             an
             Accusation
             ,
             so
             as
             to
             be
             proceeded
             criminally
             against
             ,
             the
             King
             and
             the
             Queen
             are
             to
             some
             purposes
             but
             one
             Person
             in
             Law.
             'T
             is
             true
             ,
             some
             Queens
             have
             been
             tryed
             for
             Treason
             ;
             but
             whether
             Dr.
             Oats
             understood
             that
             She
             might
             be
             brought
             to
             a
             Tryal
             may
             be
             a
             Question
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             that
             which
             I
             rely
             upon
             as
             an
             Answer
             ,
             and
             which
             I
             desire
             may
             be
             considered
             ,
             is
             ,
             that
             Dr.
             Oats
             had
             given
             an
             Accompt
             of
             a
             great
             many
             persons
             ,
             and
             a
             great
             many
             things
             he
             had
             sworn
             against
             several
             persons
             ,
             some
             of
             which
             were
             executed
             ,
             some
             to
             be
             tryed
             ,
             and
             his
             Narrative
             against
             them
             ,
             and
             of
             the
             whole
             Plot
             consisted
             of
             a
             great
             number
             of
             particulars
             .
             Here
             is
             a
             Question
             comes
             to
             the
             Doctor
             on
             a
             sudden
             ,
             
               Have
               you
               any
               more
               to
               say
               ,
               or
               can
               you
               speak
               against
               any
               other
               ?
            
             'T
             is
             possible
             a
             man
             that
             had
             said
             so
             much
             ,
             and
             of
             so
             many
             ,
             might
             not
             upon
             an
             instant
             recollect
             whether
             he
             had
             said
             all
             ,
             or
             against
             all
             that
             he
             could
             say
             :
             Nay
             ,
             '
             tit
             easily
             to
             be
             imagined
             he
             could
             not
             on
             a
             sudden
             comprehend
             all
             he
             had
             said
             or
             could
             say
             .
             Therefore
             that
             the
             Answer
             of
             a
             man
             to
             such
             a
             Question
             put
             suddenly
             to
             him
             ,
             having
             so
             much
             in
             his
             mind
             ,
             and
             having
             said
             so
             much
             ,
             should
             be
             taken
             so
             very
             strictly
             ,
             and
             to
             hold
             him
             as
             perjured
             ,
             because
             he
             did
             not
             at
             that
             instant
             time
             remember
             this
             particular
             of
             the
             Queen
             ,
             I
             think
             is
             a
             severe
             Construction
             .
          
           
             His
             Lordship
             is
             pleased
             further
             to
             object
             against
             Dr.
             Oats
             ,
             that
             he
             is
             of
             no
             Credit
             ;
             why
             ?
             Because
             he
             went
             to
             be
             of
             the
             Romish
             Religion
             ,
             and
             so
             was
             of
             that
             Religion
             which
             is
             Idolatry
             :
             I
             suppose
             his
             Lordship
             will
             not
             call
             that
             Religion
             Idolatry
             at
             another
             time
             ,
             and
             in
             another
             place
             ;
             but
             it
             serves
             his
             Lordship
             upon
             this
             particular
             Occasion
             ,
             to
             call
             it
             so
             ;
             but
             suppose
             Doctor
             Oats
             did
             ,
             out
             of
             Levity
             ,
             or
             for
             want
             of
             being
             well
             grounded
             in
             his
             own
             ,
             turn
             to
             another
             Religion
             ,
             
             he
             is
             not
             the
             first
             man
             that
             hath
             done
             so
             :
             There
             have
             been
             Men
             of
             great
             Fame
             in
             our
             Church
             ,
             and
             of
             great
             Learning
             too
             ,
             that
             have
             changed
             their
             Religion
             more
             than
             once
             .
             I
             think
             he
             that
             knew
             that
             Famous
             Man
             Mr.
             Chillingworth
             ,
             could
             not
             but
             know
             he
             was
             first
             a
             Protestant
             ,
             and
             afterwards
             a
             Papist
             ,
             and
             afterwards
             a
             Protestant
             again
             :
             So
             that
             unless
             my
             Lord
             could
             accuse
             the
             Doctor
             of
             some
             great
             Crime
             ,
             or
             Immorality
             ,
             it
             will
             be
             hard
             ,
             that
             the
             matter
             of
             changing
             his
             Religion
             ,
             should
             hurt
             his
             Testimony
             .
             I
             am
             sure
             ,
             it
             was
             happy
             for
             us
             he
             did
             change
             ;
             without
             that
             ,
             we
             had
             not
             had
             the
             first
             knowledge
             of
             the
             Plot
             ,
             nor
             of
             many
             particulars
             which
             he
             could
             not
             come
             to
             know
             but
             by
             occasion
             of
             that
             Change.
             
          
           
             My
             Lord
             was
             pleased
             to
             object
             ,
             that
             the
             Doctor
             was
             a
             man
             subject
             to
             Passion
             ;
             and
             he
             brought
             in
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             ,
             to
             speak
             of
             some
             hot
             Words
             that
             passed
             between
             them
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             will
             allow
             the
             Doctor
             to
             be
             a
             Man
             of
             Passion
             :
             Nay
             ,
             if
             my
             Lord
             please
             ,
             a
             Man
             that
             is
             not
             of
             the
             deepest
             reach
             ;
             but
             your
             Lordships
             will
             observe
             ,
             that
             Passionate
             Men
             are
             not
             often
             malicious
             ;
             and
             that
             a
             Man
             who
             is
             not
             of
             a
             deep
             Judgment
             ,
             could
             never
             have
             contrived
             and
             invented
             a
             Narrative
             consisting
             of
             so
             many
             particulars
             ,
             and
             they
             so
             coherent
             ,
             if
             they
             were
             false
             :
             And
             if
             his
             Narrative
             be
             not
             true
             ,
             he
             must
             be
             indued
             with
             more
             Subtilty
             and
             wicked
             Policy
             ,
             than
             upon
             Tryal
             we
             can
             find
             in
             him
             :
             So
             that
             what
             my
             Lord
             hath
             objected
             as
             to
             his
             Infirmities
             ,
             is
             no
             diminution
             to
             the
             truth
             of
             what
             he
             says
             ,
             but
             rather
             a
             Confirmation
             of
             it
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             The
             last
             Witness
             whom
             my
             Lord
             endeavoured
             to
             impeach
             is
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             ;
             and
             against
             him
             my
             Lord
             thinks
             he
             hath
             a
             great
             advantage
             :
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             by
             that
             time
             I
             have
             re-minded
             your
             Lordships
             of
             what
             hath
             been
             already
             said
             ,
             and
             what
             was
             before
             proved
             in
             Answer
             to
             my
             Lord's
             Objections
             against
             him
             ,
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             will
             stand
             as
             clear
             in
             this
             Court
             ,
             as
             any
             of
             the
             former
             Witnesses
             .
          
           
             Your
             Lordships
             will
             be
             pleased
             to
             take
             Notice
             ,
             That
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             was
             at
             the
             beginning
             ,
             when
             he
             came
             to
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             ,
             a
             little
             uncertain
             ,
             as
             to
             matter
             of
             Time
             :
             For
             when
             he
             had
             made
             in
             his
             Affidavit
             ,
             the
             times
             to
             be
             (
             73
             )
             and
             (
             76
             )
             he
             craved
             leave
             to
             alter
             it
             to
             (
             72
             )
             and
             (
             75.
             )
             Surely
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             this
             will
             be
             far
             from
             being
             any
             Imputation
             to
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             ;
             because
             ,
             First
             ,
             he
             gives
             the
             Reason
             how
             he
             came
             afterwards
             to
             understand
             the
             Time
             bettter
             ,
             by
             viewing
             his
             Papers
             and
             Letters
             ;
             he
             likewise
             gives
             you
             an
             Account
             ,
             and
             so
             did
             Sir
             
               William
               Poultney
            
             ,
             when
             he
             did
             this
             ,
             the
             next
             Morning
             ,
             before
             any
             Man
             in
             the
             World
             had
             questioned
             him
             upon
             it
             :
             So
             that
             it
             shews
             the
             Man's
             Care
             and
             Conscience
             both
             ,
             when
             he
             is
             so
             careful
             ,
             even
             in
             matters
             of
             the
             smallest
             Moment
             to
             set
             things
             right
             .
          
           
             There
             is
             no
             Man
             that
             knows
             the
             Practice
             of
             the
             Court
             of
             Chancery
             ,
             but
             knows
             ,
             that
             for
             a
             Man
             to
             mend
             his
             Answer
             after
             it
             is
             sworn
             in
             a
             point
             of
             Time
             ,
             or
             other
             Circumstance
             ,
             is
             no
             disparagement
             to
             him
             :
             Nay
             ,
             to
             do
             it
             before
             the
             
             other
             Party
             did
             except
             or
             take
             notice
             of
             it
             ,
             is
             no
             Objection
             ,
             but
             rather
             a
             Reputation
             to
             him
             :
             And
             your
             Lordships
             will
             be
             pleased
             to
             take
             notice
             ,
             that
             one
             of
             the
             times
             rectified
             ,
             is
             of
             7
             or
             8
             years
             ,
             the
             other
             of
             4
             years
             standing
             .
             And
             I
             do
             not
             think
             the
             worse
             of
             a
             Witness
             that
             is
             not
             positive
             ,
             in
             a
             time
             ,
             when
             that
             time
             is
             so
             far
             elapsed
             .
          
           
             The
             next
             matter
             is
             ,
             That
             this
             man
             was
             never
             with
             my
             Lord
             ;
             how
             was
             that
             proved
             ,
             for
             't
             is
             a
             Negative
             ?
             Why
             ,
             my
             Lord
             is
             pleased
             to
             call
             his
             own
             Servants
             ,
             Furnese
             and
             the
             Boy
             Leigh
             ,
             and
             what
             say
             they
             ?
             they
             never
             saw
             any
             such
             man.
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             desire
             your
             Lordships
             to
             observe
             ,
             That
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             was
             introduced
             by
             greater
             Confidents
             than
             either
             of
             these
             Servants
             .
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             came
             in
             the
             company
             of
             the
             Priests
             ,
             and
             you
             hear
             the
             Boy
             deny
             that
             he
             knew
             
               Anthony
               Turbervill
            
             ,
             but
             not
             that
             he
             knew
             Father
             Turbervill
             ,
             nor
             doth
             my
             Lord
             himself
             deny
             it
             ,
             nor
             doth
             either
             Master
             or
             Man
             deny
             my
             Lords
             correspondency
             with
             the
             other
             two
             Fathers
             .
             And
             it
             might
             be
             very
             easie
             for
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             to
             come
             in
             the
             company
             of
             the
             Priests
             ,
             and
             the
             Boy
             not
             take
             particular
             notice
             of
             him
             .
             And
             't
             is
             as
             little
             an
             Objection
             what
             my
             Lord
             says
             ,
             that
             Turbervill
             himself
             said
             he
             did
             not
             know
             the
             Boy
             ;
             how
             many
             are
             there
             that
             come
             to
             the
             Houses
             of
             another
             ;
             and
             unless
             they
             Lodge
             there
             or
             dine
             there
             often
             ,
             do
             not
             remember
             the
             Servants
             of
             the
             House
             :
             And
             't
             is
             no
             greater
             an
             Objection
             ,
             to
             say
             ,
             the
             Servants
             did
             not
             know
             him
             :
             The
             Priests
             they
             knew
             him
             ;
             they
             were
             his
             Guides
             ;
             they
             were
             the
             likeliest
             to
             gain
             him
             Admittance
             ,
             not
             only
             into
             my
             Lord's
             House
             ,
             but
             into
             my
             Lord's
             Heart
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             Your
             Lordships
             will
             be
             pleased
             likewise
             to
             observe
             ,
             They
             have
             also
             gone
             about
             in
             very
             little
             matters
             ,
             to
             disprove
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             ,
             as
             that
             whereas
             he
             says
             ,
             he
             was
             not
             well
             used
             by
             my
             Lord
             Powis
             and
             his
             Lady
             ,
             when
             he
             returned
             from
             Doway
             ;
             that
             he
             was
             very
             well
             used
             ;
             and
             as
             one
             Witness
             (
             I
             think
             Minhead
             )
             says
             ,
             he
             was
             permitted
             to
             lie
             in
             a
             Room
             near
             my
             Lord's
             Chamber
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             does
             not
             pretend
             to
             say
             ,
             that
             my
             Lord
             Powis
             shut
             him
             out
             of
             doors
             ;
             but
             what
             Reproaches
             or
             unkind
             Words
             might
             pass
             between
             them
             in
             private
             ,
             Minhead
             might
             not
             hear
             :
             So
             that
             to
             say
             ,
             that
             he
             lay
             in
             my
             Lord's
             House
             ,
             is
             no
             Answer
             to
             this
             Matter
             .
             And
             for
             the
             other
             Witness
             (
             his
             Brother
             )
             that
             speaks
             of
             his
             Kindreds
             being
             kind
             to
             him
             ,
             that
             ,
             under
             favour
             ,
             does
             not
             at
             all
             disprove
             him
             ;
             for
             ,
             what
             was
             the
             kindness
             ?
             His
             Brother
             and
             Sister
             were
             so
             kind
             as
             to
             give
             him
             Seven
             Pounds
             never
             to
             see
             him
             more
             ;
             a
             great
             matter
             when
             a
             younger
             Brother
             lies
             upon
             a
             Family
             ,
             that
             the
             trouble
             of
             his
             stay
             there
             is
             redeemed
             at
             the
             price
             of
             Seven
             Pound
             .
             This
             was
             a
             very
             great
             kindness
             ,
             a
             kindness
             indeed
             that
             one
             would
             scarce
             deny
             to
             a
             Stranger
             ,
             if
             in
             Poverty
             .
             I
             mention
             the
             least
             matters
             I
             can
             remember
             ,
             because
             I
             would
             have
             nothing
             stick
             with
             your
             Lordships
             .
          
           
             Then
             Secretary
             Lydcott
             (
             the
             Fellow
             of
             
               Kings
               Colledge
            
             )
             was
             called
             again
             ;
             but
             indeed
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             he
             was
             so
             out
             in
             his
             Arithmetick
             ,
             so
             mistaken
             in
             the
             
             Year
             ;
             and
             used
             the
             New
             Stile
             (
             the
             Romish
             )
             so
             much
             more
             than
             ours
             ,
             that
             it
             makes
             me
             suspect
             he
             is
             not
             so
             great
             a
             Protestant
             as
             he
             pretends
             to
             be
             .
             He
             promised
             us
             his
             Book
             ,
             which
             he
             was
             not
             then
             prepared
             to
             produce
             ;
             but
             because
             we
             do
             not
             hear
             of
             him
             ,
             nor
             of
             his
             Book
             since
             ,
             we
             say
             no
             more
             of
             him
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             
               John
               Porter
            
             my
             Lord
             
             Powis's
             Butler
             comes
             next
             ,
             and
             what
             does
             he
             tell
             your
             Lordships
             ?
             Why
             ,
             that
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             came
             not
             to
             
             Powis's
             House
             (
             it
             seems
             he
             did
             not
             appear
             there
             )
             but
             that
             he
             came
             to
             a
             Victualling
             House
             hard
             by
             ;
             and
             he
             telling
             Turbervill
             he
             must
             know
             something
             of
             the
             Plot
             ,
             he
             denied
             that
             he
             knew
             any
             thing
             .
             To
             the
             same
             purpose
             ,
             or
             rather
             to
             less
             ,
             and
             more
             improbably
             ,
             does
             Yalden
             (
             the
             Gentleman
             of
             
               Grays
               Inn
            
             ,
             as
             he
             calls
             himself
             )
             testifie
             ,
             who
             says
             ,
             that
             walking
             in
             
               Grays
               Inn
            
             Walks
             ,
             he
             had
             discourse
             with
             Turbervill
             ;
             and
             that
             he
             then
             swore
             ,
             there
             was
             no
             Trade
             good
             now
             but
             that
             of
             a
             Discoverer
             ;
             and
             damned
             himself
             because
             he
             could
             make
             no
             Discovery
             .
             Truly
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             this
             looks
             in
             it self
             to
             be
             something
             prepared
             for
             the
             purpose
             :
             It
             is
             not
             probable
             ,
             that
             a
             Man
             that
             should
             use
             those
             horrid
             Oaths
             ,
             and
             should
             have
             such
             a
             mind
             to
             be
             a
             Discoverer
             ,
             should
             disable
             himself
             ever
             to
             be
             so
             by
             swearing
             he
             knew
             nothing
             .
          
           
             But
             I
             will
             not
             only
             answer
             that
             matter
             ,
             with
             saying
             't
             is
             improbable
             ;
             but
             I
             shall
             desire
             Your
             Lordships
             to
             remember
             ,
             that
             Mr.
             Powel
             ,
             a
             Gentleman
             of
             the
             same
             House
             ,
             and
             of
             good
             Reputation
             ,
             does
             swear
             ,
             that
             Turbervill
             did
             acquaint
             him
             ,
             that
             he
             could
             discover
             a
             considerable
             matter
             ;
             and
             this
             was
             above
             a
             year
             since
             .
             And
             Mr.
             Arnold
             ,
             a
             Member
             of
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             does
             confirm
             it
             ,
             that
             he
             did
             several
             times
             acquaint
             him
             ,
             that
             he
             could
             make
             an
             important
             Discovery
             ;
             and
             gave
             him
             several
             reasons
             ,
             why
             he
             thought
             not
             fit
             to
             do
             at
             that
             time
             ,
             because
             of
             the
             Dangers
             which
             might
             arise
             from
             some
             Great
             Men
             ;
             and
             therefore
             till
             he
             had
             a
             more
             convenient
             Opportunity
             ,
             he
             would
             not
             discover
             .
             But
             as
             soon
             as
             the
             Parliament
             sate
             ,
             very
             early
             he
             did
             begin
             to
             discover
             :
             So
             that
             I
             shall
             oppose
             the
             Testimony
             of
             Mr.
             Powel
             and
             Mr.
             Arnold
             ,
             to
             the
             Testimony
             of
             my
             Lord
             
             Powis's
             Butler
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Yalden
             ;
             the
             latter
             of
             whom
             ,
             speaks
             so
             improbably
             ,
             and
             of
             a
             Discourse
             half
             a
             year
             ago
             ;
             whereas
             Mr.
             Powel
             speaks
             of
             what
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             said
             above
             a
             year
             since
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Arnold
             of
             a
             longer
             time
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             It
             hath
             been
             sometimes
             objected
             ,
             that
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             was
             a
             Stranger
             to
             my
             Lord
             ;
             and
             it
             was
             too
             great
             a
             Trust
             to
             commit
             to
             a
             Stranger
             ;
             too
             great
             a
             Secret
             for
             a
             Stranger
             to
             be
             acquainted
             with
             :
             My
             Lord's
             design
             of
             the
             King's
             Death
             was
             too
             great
             a
             matter
             to
             lodge
             with
             one
             ,
             with
             whom
             my
             Lord
             had
             no
             more
             Acquaintance
             than
             he
             had
             with
             Turbervill
             .
          
           
             Your
             Lordships
             will
             be
             pleased
             to
             observe
             who
             they
             were
             that
             did
             introduce
             him
             ,
             and
             who
             probably
             gave
             the
             best
             Character
             of
             him
             :
             they
             were
             the
             three
             Priests
             ;
             and
             I
             do
             not
             wonder
             when
             these
             Priests
             had
             brought
             my
             Lord
             up
             to
             such
             a
             purpose
             ,
             that
             they
             should
             prevail
             with
             his
             Lordship
             to
             give
             Credit
             
             to
             ,
             and
             deal
             with
             a
             Man
             that
             was
             not
             very
             unlike
             in
             his
             Circumstances
             to
             attempt
             such
             a
             business
             ▪
             For
             your
             Lordships
             will
             observe
             ,
             he
             was
             a
             man
             that
             was
             very
             stout
             ;
             for
             against
             my
             Lord's
             reflection
             upon
             him
             as
             to
             Cowardise
             in
             deserting
             the
             Army
             ,
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             hath
             produced
             the
             Certificate
             of
             his
             dismission
             ,
             which
             gives
             him
             a
             very
             good
             Character
             .
             Besides
             ,
             he
             was
             a
             man
             indigent
             ,
             and
             therefore
             I
             think
             there
             could
             not
             be
             a
             fitter
             man
             chosen
             for
             the
             purpose
             ,
             if
             he
             had
             been
             so
             void
             of
             all
             Grace
             as
             to
             undertake
             it
             .
             And
             that
             Priests
             having
             gotten
             a
             man
             so
             qualified
             ,
             as
             they
             thought
             him
             ,
             were
             not
             likely
             to
             let
             slip
             such
             an
             opportunity
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             My
             Lords
             ,
             to
             come
             to
             that
             which
             is
             the
             sum
             of
             the
             business
             ,
             and
             which
             my
             Lord
             lays
             more
             weight
             on
             than
             all
             the
             rest
             ;
             and
             that
             is
             the
             Affidavit
             which
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             swore
             before
             the
             Justices
             of
             the
             Peace
             (
             which
             was
             in
             effect
             what
             he
             informed
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             )
             and
             in
             that
             Affidavit
             ,
             besides
             his
             alteration
             of
             Times
             (
             which
             I
             have
             spoken
             to
             already
             )
             it
             is
             objected
             that
             he
             does
             say
             that
             which
             is
             manifestly
             untrue
             :
             For
             he
             says
             my
             Lord
             came
             by
             the
             way
             of
             Calice
             with
             Count
             Gramont
             ,
             neither
             of
             which
             my
             Lord
             did
             do
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             will
             not
             mention
             the
             Master
             of
             the
             Yacht
             ,
             nor
             the
             Witnesses
             from
             the
             Admiralty
             which
             make
             out
             that
             my
             Lord
             came
             from
             Diep
             ,
             and
             not
             from
             Calice
             .
             Nor
             do
             I
             deny
             that
             my
             Lord
             came
             by
             himself
             ,
             and
             not
             with
             Count
             Gramont
             ,
             and
             therefore
             't
             is
             most
             certainly
             true
             ,
             that
             what
             Turbervill
             swore
             ,
             as
             to
             those
             two
             particulars
             ,
             was
             not
             true
             .
             Yet
             if
             your
             Lordships
             please
             to
             observe
             the
             Circumstances
             ,
             tho'
             what
             he
             swore
             herein
             was
             not
             true
             ,
             it
             will
             appear
             a
             very
             innocent
             mistake
             .
          
           
             For
             in
             
             Turbervill's
             Affidavit
             he
             tells
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             that
             he
             came
             away
             without
             my
             Lord
             to
             Diep
             ,
             and
             came
             from
             Diep
             to
             England
             before
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             left
             Paris
             .
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             tells
             you
             ,
             afterwards
             my
             Lord
             came
             from
             Calice
             with
             Count
             Gramont
             ;
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             could
             not
             possibly
             be
             thought
             to
             speak
             this
             of
             his
             own
             knowledge
             ,
             because
             he
             does
             in
             the
             same
             Affidavit
             tell
             you
             too
             ,
             that
             he
             came
             away
             before
             my
             Lord
             ,
             and
             had
             not
             his
             passage
             with
             him
             .
             So
             that
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             desire
             you
             would
             observe
             ,
             it
             could
             be
             no
             design
             of
             his
             to
             affirm
             this
             of
             his
             own
             knowledge
             :
             For
             if
             it
             were
             ,
             he
             took
             a
             very
             ill
             course
             to
             disclose
             in
             the
             same
             Affidavit
             that
             he
             was
             absent
             ,
             and
             so
             could
             not
             speak
             of
             his
             own
             knowledge
             .
             And
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             suppose
             a
             man
             did
             swear
             such
             a
             man
             and
             he
             were
             in
             such
             company
             ,
             and
             that
             he
             came
             home
             and
             left
             the
             man
             there
             ,
             and
             that
             afterwards
             the
             man
             said
             such
             and
             such
             things
             in
             that
             company
             ,
             what
             should
             I
             say
             of
             this
             Oath
             ?
             I
             might
             well
             say
             the
             words
             of
             his
             Oath
             were
             not
             proper
             ,
             or
             that
             he
             was
             unweary
             in
             expressing
             himself
             ;
             but
             I
             could
             not
             say
             ,
             nor
             would
             any
             man
             justly
             be
             able
             to
             say
             he
             had
             a
             design
             to
             make
             the
             World
             believe
             he
             heard
             him
             say
             so
             ,
             because
             he
             swears
             in
             the
             same
             breath
             he
             came
             away
             before
             the
             Words
             were
             spoken
             .
             If
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             had
             understood
             how
             strict
             and
             nice
             a
             man
             ought
             to
             be
             in
             expressing
             himself
             in
             an
             Affidavit
             ,
             he
             would
             have
             said
             (
             as
             he
             
             had
             been
             told
             )
             my
             Lord
             ●ame
             by
             Calice
             ,
             and
             that
             Count
             Gramont
             came
             with
             him
             ,
             as
             he
             understood
             .
             'T
             is
             true
             he
             hath
             not
             put
             in
             those
             words
             ,
             but
             I
             beseech
             you
             ,
             when
             the
             matter
             it self
             will
             bear
             it
             ,
             nay
             ,
             when
             't
             is
             most
             apparent
             that
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             could
             have
             no
             other
             meaning
             than
             to
             relate
             what
             he
             was
             informed
             by
             others
             ,
             and
             what
             he
             could
             not
             know
             himself
             ,
             what
             corruption
             ,
             what
             obliquity
             can
             there
             be
             in
             this
             Oath
             ?
             All
             that
             can
             be
             said
             is
             ,
             it
             was
             not
             cautiously
             worded
             ;
             but
             it
             does
             certainly
             disclose
             so
             much
             in
             it self
             ,
             that
             every
             one
             that
             hears
             it
             must
             say
             ,
             That
             he
             did
             not
             take
             upon
             himself
             to
             swear
             it
             as
             of
             his
             own
             knowledge
             ,
             because
             he
             tells
             you
             he
             was
             not
             there
             ,
             so
             that
             it
             was
             rather
             want
             of
             knowledge
             how
             to
             express
             himself
             properly
             ,
             than
             any
             corruption
             in
             his
             Oath
             ,
             or
             forswearing
             himself
             .
          
           
             But
             says
             my
             Lord
             ,
             how
             should
             he
             come
             to
             know
             this
             ?
             Why
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             said
             he
             had
             a
             Letter
             whereby
             he
             knew
             my
             Lord
             would
             come
             by
             the
             way
             of
             Calice
             ,
             but
             where
             is
             that
             Letter
             ?
             Is
             it
             necessary
             to
             keep
             ,
             or
             does
             any
             man
             almost
             keep
             Letters
             of
             no
             greater
             concernment
             than
             this
             ,
             that
             my
             Lord
             writ
             him
             word
             how
             he
             would
             go
             by
             the
             way
             of
             Calice
             ,
             and
             this
             after
             five
             years
             ,
             and
             after
             he
             was
             in
             the
             Wars
             ,
             and
             where
             I
             have
             heard
             he
             was
             taken
             Prisoner
             .
             To
             be
             sure
             he
             was
             much
             tumbled
             up
             and
             down
             from
             place
             to
             place
             .
             And
             under
             all
             these
             Circumstances
             might
             not
             such
             a
             Letter
             be
             lost
             ?
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             beseech
             you
             ,
             are
             there
             not
             some
             Proofs
             that
             look
             much
             this
             way
             ,
             made
             out
             by
             another
             Witness
             ?
             Does
             not
             Mr.
             Mort
             tell
             you
             something
             of
             this
             Nature
             ?
             First
             he
             agrees
             as
             to
             the
             matter
             of
             an
             English
             Lord
             lying
             about
             such
             a
             Street
             in
             Paris
             ,
             he
             tells
             you
             he
             was
             with
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             ,
             and
             that
             he
             himself
             walked
             about
             Laxenburgh
             House
             whilst
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             went
             to
             speak
             with
             that
             English
             Lord
             :
             he
             does
             say
             he
             believes
             his
             Name
             was
             my
             Lord
             Stafford
             ,
             but
             he
             is
             not
             positive
             ;
             and
             the
             times
             which
             he
             speaks
             of
             do
             agree
             with
             what
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             deposeth
             .
             And
             there
             is
             one
             thing
             ,
             which
             tho'
             I
             should
             not
             mention
             upon
             any
             other
             occasion
             ,
             because
             it
             was
             but
             a
             foolish
             Joke
             ,
             yet
             I
             shall
             crave
             leave
             to
             speak
             of
             it
             now
             .
             He
             tells
             you
             ,
             That
             one
             day
             ,
             while
             they
             were
             at
             Diep
             in
             expectation
             of
             my
             Lords
             coming
             ,
             and
             hearing
             that
             he
             went
             another
             way
             ,
             they
             had
             this
             piece
             of
             minute
             Wit
             upon
             it
             ,
             
               Cursed
               is
               he
               that
               relies
               upon
               a
               broken
               Staff
               :
            
             whereby
             he
             thinks
             was
             meant
             the
             Name
             of
             Stafford
             .
             So
             then
             ,
             ●
             beseech
             you
             ,
             if
             Mort
             say
             true
             ,
             are
             not
             here
             footsteps
             ,
             and
             a
             foundation
             whereon
             to
             ground
             a
             belief
             ,
             That
             there
             was
             a
             Correspondence
             between
             Turbervill
             and
             my
             Lord
             ,
             and
             that
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             had
             an
             Information
             that
             my
             Lord
             would
             come
             by
             the
             way
             of
             Calice
             .
             And
             one
             thing
             more
             Mort
             says
             ,
             that
             Turbervill
             told
             him
             ,
             if
             he
             would
             make
             haste
             to
             Calice
             ,
             he
             might
             go
             over
             with
             my
             Lord.
             And
             here
             I
             would
             observe
             ,
             how
             should
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             come
             to
             know
             that
             my
             Lord
             went
             that
             way
             ?
             and
             how
             should
             he
             tell
             Mort
             that
             he
             might
             go
             over
             with
             my
             Lord
             from
             Calice
             ,
             unless
             he
             had
             receiv'd
             some
             such
             Information
             ?
             Therefore
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             taking
             into
             Consideration
             what
             is
             
             confirmed
             by
             Mort
             ,
             and
             taking
             into
             Consideration
             the
             whole
             scope
             of
             the
             Affidavit
             ,
             I
             cannot
             see
             that
             there
             can
             be
             any
             material
             Objection
             against
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             for
             saying
             ,
             That
             my
             Lord
             came
             by
             Calice
             in
             the
             Company
             of
             Count
             Gramont
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             have
             done
             now
             with
             the
             Witnesses
             ,
             and
             I
             told
             you
             as
             I
             went
             along
             (
             because
             I
             would
             not
             trouble
             you
             with
             a
             double
             Repetition
             )
             what
             Evidence
             we
             have
             given
             in
             contradiction
             to
             those
             Witnesses
             which
             my
             Lord
             hath
             brought
             in
             order
             to
             defame
             our
             Witnesses
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             am
             to
             acquaint
             you
             ,
             That
             besides
             these
             particular
             Answers
             ,
             your
             Lordships
             have
             had
             men
             of
             very
             great
             Credit
             brought
             to
             testifie
             the
             Reputation
             of
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             and
             Mr.
             Turbervill
             .
             As
             to
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             we
             have
             brought
             men
             that
             have
             known
             him
             a
             great
             while
             ;
             one
             hath
             sworn
             what
             Opinion
             even
             my
             Lord
             Aston
             himself
             had
             of
             him
             :
             for
             it
             seems
             he
             lived
             with
             so
             much
             Credit
             there
             ,
             that
             he
             would
             not
             believe
             any
             ill
             of
             him
             .
             You
             have
             heard
             from
             other
             Witnesses
             how
             he
             did
             behave
             himself
             .
             It
             was
             objected
             sometimes
             Tradesmen
             were
             not
             paid
             ;
             but
             what
             then
             ,
             can
             a
             man
             pay
             without
             Money
             ?
             I
             believe
             there
             are
             some
             Lords
             here
             ,
             whose
             Stewards
             are
             very
             honest
             men
             ,
             and
             yet
             the
             Tradesmen
             such
             Lords
             deal
             with
             ,
             are
             not
             always
             readily
             paid
             .
          
           
             He
             was
             ,
             as
             you
             observe
             ,
             believed
             to
             be
             in
             the
             Plot
             ,
             and
             my
             Lord's
             Servants
             say
             he
             seemed
             much
             troubled
             about
             it
             ,
             he
             went
             away
             upon
             that
             Account
             ,
             and
             was
             so
             much
             concerned
             ,
             that
             he
             burnt
             his
             Papers
             ,
             which
             I
             make
             use
             of
             for
             two
             Purposes
             ,
             The
             one
             to
             shew
             that
             he
             did
             apprehend
             he
             was
             in
             great
             danger
             ;
             the
             other
             to
             shew
             what
             was
             the
             Reason
             why
             the
             Letters
             and
             Papers
             he
             speaks
             of
             are
             not
             now
             produced
             ,
             because
             he
             looked
             upon
             himself
             ,
             and
             them
             who
             were
             then
             his
             Friends
             ,
             to
             be
             in
             such
             danger
             by
             them
             ,
             that
             he
             burnt
             them
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             know
             your
             Lordships
             will
             take
             notice
             that
             there
             hath
             been
             a
             very
             good
             Account
             given
             you
             ,
             how
             it
             was
             that
             Dugdale
             came
             to
             be
             prevailed
             upon
             to
             make
             a
             Discovery
             of
             the
             Plot
             ,
             it
             was
             with
             great
             difficulty
             ;
             there
             were
             indeed
             persuasions
             used
             by
             some
             of
             his
             Friends
             to
             bring
             him
             to
             it
             .
             The
             Justices
             ,
             as
             they
             themselves
             have
             sworn
             ,
             endeavoured
             the
             same
             thing
             ,
             but
             all
             without
             success
             .
             Then
             the
             Coroner
             Mr.
             Southall
             (
             who
             tho'
             he
             was
             no
             great
             ,
             yet
             seems
             to
             be
             a
             very
             understanding
             man
             )
             takes
             him
             in
             hand
             ,
             and
             he
             had
             the
             good
             Fortune
             to
             succeed
             .
             I
             call
             it
             Good
             ,
             not
             only
             for
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             ,
             but
             for
             the
             Nation
             .
             I
             shall
             not
             trouble
             your
             Lordships
             with
             the
             particulars
             of
             the
             Arguments
             Mr.
             Southall
             used
             to
             him
             ,
             but
             't
             is
             plain
             (
             if
             you
             believe
             Mr.
             Southall
             ,
             whose
             Credit
             is
             now
             supported
             by
             an
             Honourable
             Lord
             ,
             and
             by
             a
             Member
             of
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             )
             that
             Dugdale
             did
             at
             the
             first
             time
             that
             he
             did
             make
             a
             Discovery
             ,
             depose
             as
             much
             in
             substance
             against
             this
             Lord
             ,
             as
             now
             he
             does
             .
             And
             from
             thence
             I
             desire
             to
             make
             one
             Observation
             ,
             and
             that
             is
             this
             :
          
           
           
             'T
             was
             impossible
             it
             could
             be
             a
             Contrivance
             among
             the
             Witnesses
             themselves
             to
             depose
             the
             same
             Crimes
             against
             this
             Lord
             ;
             for
             Doctor
             Oats
             never
             knew
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             till
             Dugdale
             was
             brought
             up
             ,
             which
             was
             long
             after
             Doctor
             Oats
             his
             Accusation
             of
             this
             Lord
             ;
             nor
             could
             Dugdale
             know
             what
             Evidence
             Oats
             had
             given
             here
             ,
             for
             Dugdale
             was
             a
             close
             Prisoner
             in
             Stafford
             Gaol
             before
             Oats
             accused
             this
             Lord
             ,
             and
             long
             after
             .
             And
             yet
             the
             first
             Evidence
             Dugdale
             gives
             against
             this
             Lord
             doth
             in
             substance
             concur
             with
             that
             given
             by
             Doctor
             Oats
             .
             So
             that
             since
             there
             could
             be
             no
             Intercourse
             nor
             Conference
             between
             them
             ,
             but
             as
             much
             distance
             as
             from
             the
             Prison
             Doors
             in
             Stassord
             to
             London
             ,
             there
             could
             be
             no
             Contrivance
             between
             them
             for
             both
             of
             them
             to
             accuse
             this
             Lord
             of
             the
             same
             Matters
             .
             And
             this
             I
             desire
             may
             be
             looked
             upon
             by
             your
             Lordships
             as
             a
             Matter
             of
             great
             Weight
             to
             support
             the
             Credit
             of
             the
             whole
             Evidence
             .
             And
             Dugdale
             does
             seem
             to
             be
             a
             person
             of
             an
             unquestionable
             Credit
             ,
             and
             every
             one
             that
             hears
             him
             must
             observe
             ,
             he
             does
             give
             his
             Evidence
             with
             great
             Mcdesty
             ,
             and
             all
             probability
             of
             Truth
             .
          
           
             There
             is
             another
             thing
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             that
             I
             would
             pray
             your
             Lordships
             to
             observe
             ;
             These
             Witnesses
             ,
             Mr.
             Dugdale
             and
             Doctor
             Oats
             ,
             do
             give
             such
             an
             Evidence
             as
             is
             impossible
             to
             be
             given
             ,
             unless
             it
             were
             true
             ;
             for
             other
             Witnesses
             when
             they
             are
             put
             out
             of
             the
             Road
             ,
             and
             asked
             Questions
             they
             did
             not
             expect
             ,
             are
             commonly
             to
             seek
             ,
             and
             must
             pump
             for
             an
             Answer
             ,
             and
             then
             answer
             with
             great
             difficulty
             and
             wariness
             .
             But
             these
             two
             Witnesses
             do
             not
             only
             answer
             with
             readiness
             when
             you
             ask
             them
             any
             Questions
             ,
             but
             what
             is
             contained
             in
             every
             new
             Answer
             doth
             add
             a
             further
             probability
             and
             confirmation
             to
             what
             they
             said
             before
             .
             And
             I
             must
             needs
             say
             of
             them
             ,
             I
             think
             it
             were
             impossible
             for
             any
             men
             in
             the
             World
             to
             contrive
             a
             Story
             of
             so
             many
             particulars
             ,
             and
             so
             consistent
             in
             every
             part
             of
             it
             ,
             and
             yet
             the
             same
             should
             be
             false
             ;
             and
             ,
             which
             is
             more
             ,
             after
             so
             many
             Tryals
             ,
             not
             one
             material
             Circumstance
             of
             what
             they
             say
             contradicted
             by
             any
             solid
             proof
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             There
             may
             be
             other
             particulars
             which
             I
             may
             have
             forgotten
             ,
             I
             know
             not
             whether
             I
             observed
             that
             my
             Lord
             objected
             that
             we
             do
             not
             prove
             him
             a
             Papist
             ,
             I
             hinted
             something
             before
             about
             his
             coming
             to
             Mass
             to
             my
             Lord
             
             Aston's
             at
             Tixal
             ,
             which
             is
             one
             sort
             of
             proof
             of
             his
             being
             of
             the
             Romish
             Religion
             .
             Besides
             his
             perpetual
             Conversation
             with
             that
             Party
             ,
             and
             his
             Endeavours
             to
             promote
             their
             Religion
             and
             Designs
             ,
             all
             which
             have
             been
             fully
             proved
             :
             I
             think
             also
             my
             Lord
             deserted
             the
             
               House
               of
               Peers
            
             ,
             for
             that
             he
             would
             not
             take
             the
             Test
             appointed
             by
             the
             late
             Act
             ,
             your
             Lordships
             best
             know
             whether
             he
             did
             so
             or
             no.
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             let
             him
             if
             he
             will
             be
             a
             Protestant
             ,
             for
             this
             time
             ,
             let
             that
             be
             supposed
             :
             If
             he
             were
             a
             Protestant
             ,
             and
             should
             be
             guilty
             of
             the
             Offences
             proved
             upon
             him
             ,
             he
             would
             not
             deserve
             the
             more
             Favour
             from
             your
             Lordships
             .
          
           
             My
             Lord
             hath
             been
             likewise
             pleased
             in
             further
             proof
             of
             his
             Innocency
             to
             
             alledge
             that
             after
             the
             Plot
             was
             discovered
             ,
             he
             had
             seven
             Posts
             time
             to
             have
             escaped
             ,
             and
             yet
             never
             fled
             .
             My
             Lords
             ,
             'T
             is
             true
             ,
             he
             might
             have
             fled
             ,
             so
             might
             Coleman
             too
             ,
             that
             Coleman
             that
             left
             so
             fatal
             an
             Evidence
             against
             himself
             and
             all
             his
             Party
             under
             his
             own
             hand
             ,
             and
             for
             that
             had
             reason
             to
             believe
             himself
             very
             Guilty
             ,
             and
             so
             might
             the
             Jesuits
             have
             escaped
             too
             ,
             but
             that
             they
             had
             hopes
             the
             Oath
             of
             Secresie
             and
             the
             means
             they
             had
             used
             to
             conceal
             their
             damnable
             Designs
             would
             have
             been
             a
             sufficient
             Security
             against
             revealing
             it
             .
             They
             had
             that
             opinion
             of
             their
             Priests
             ,
             and
             of
             the
             Fidelity
             and
             Constancy
             of
             those
             that
             had
             been
             seduced
             by
             them
             ,
             and
             recommended
             by
             them
             ,
             that
             they
             apprehended
             nothing
             less
             than
             a
             Discovery
             .
             And
             those
             other
             persons
             that
             were
             executed
             did
             all
             stay
             about
             the
             Town
             after
             the
             Plot
             was
             discovered
             ,
             as
             well
             as
             this
             Lord
             staid
             in
             the
             Countrey
             .
          
           
             My
             Lord
             did
             very
             much
             complain
             ,
             That
             our
             Witnesses
             were
             not
             positive
             in
             point
             of
             Time
             ,
             I
             think
             Dugdale
             was
             positive
             enough
             as
             to
             the
             time
             of
             the
             Offer
             of
             500
             l.
             but
             for
             other
             matters
             he
             would
             not
             confine
             himself
             to
             a
             Month
             ,
             he
             talked
             of
             the
             latter
             end
             of
             one
             Month
             ,
             and
             the
             beginning
             of
             another
             ,
             I
             think
             he
             is
             the
             more
             to
             be
             believed
             ;
             for
             I
             conceive
             unless
             a
             Witness
             hath
             some
             notorious
             Circumstance
             in
             his
             memory
             to
             satisfie
             him
             about
             the
             certainty
             of
             the
             time
             (
             such
             as
             was
             that
             of
             the
             Foot-race
             as
             to
             the
             time
             of
             the
             Offer
             of
             500
             l.
             )
             it
             is
             rather
             a
             mark
             of
             presumption
             than
             of
             sincerity
             for
             a
             Witness
             to
             be
             too
             positive
             as
             to
             the
             time
             .
             And
             is
             there
             so
             great
             a
             distance
             between
             the
             latter
             end
             of
             one
             Month
             ,
             and
             the
             beginning
             of
             another
             ,
             that
             a
             Witness
             need
             to
             be
             positive
             as
             to
             the
             very
             day
             ?
             but
             says
             my
             Lord
             ,
             you
             talk
             of
             the
             beginning
             ,
             it
             was
             the
             12
             th
             .
             of
             September
             ere
             I
             came
             thither
             ;
             Does
             not
             every
             man
             count
             that
             till
             the
             middle
             of
             a
             Month
             ,
             't
             is
             the
             beginning
             of
             a
             Month
             sure
             ,
             in
             common
             speech
             it
             is
             so
             .
             Therefore
             I
             look
             upon
             that
             as
             a
             matter
             scarce
             worth
             the
             mentioning
             ,
             I
             am
             sure
             not
             worth
             the
             serious
             Answering
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             must
             observe
             thus
             much
             ,
             That
             what
             my
             Lord
             complains
             of
             as
             a
             fault
             in
             our
             Witnesses
             ,
             his
             own
             Witnesses
             are
             guilty
             of
             .
             For
             I
             appeal
             to
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             when
             they
             came
             to
             speak
             of
             Times
             ,
             whether
             they
             did
             not
             talk
             at
             the
             distance
             of
             a
             Month
             ,
             or
             Months
             ,
             and
             sometimes
             of
             Years
             ,
             and
             less
             certain
             in
             point
             of
             Time
             than
             ours
             .
          
           
             But
             ,
             says
             my
             Lord
             ,
             (
             for
             I
             am
             still
             answering
             his
             Objections
             ,
             and
             you
             must
             take
             them
             as
             I
             find
             them
             )
             here
             is
             mention
             made
             by
             Dr.
             Oats
             of
             Letters
             ,
             of
             many
             Letters
             ,
             shew
             me
             some
             of
             those
             Letters
             ?
             shew
             me
             the
             Letter
             you
             carried
             to
             the
             Post-house
             ?
             My
             Lords
             ,
             were
             those
             Letters
             written
             to
             Dr.
             Oats
             ?
             Did
             they
             belong
             to
             him
             ?
             Or
             is
             it
             possible
             that
             my
             Lords
             Letter
             delivered
             by
             the
             Doctor
             to
             the
             Post-house
             ,
             should
             now
             be
             shewn
             by
             the
             Doctor
             ,
             or
             that
             the
             Letters
             writ
             to
             the
             Superior
             of
             the
             Society
             of
             the
             Jesuits
             should
             be
             produced
             by
             one
             that
             was
             a
             Novice
             of
             that
             Society
             ?
             Does
             Dr.
             Oats
             talk
             of
             any
             one
             Letter
             written
             to
             himself
             ?
             You
             will
             then
             ,
             I
             suppose
             ,
             see
             no
             reason
             to
             expect
             those
             
             Letters
             should
             be
             produced
             by
             him
             that
             were
             not
             written
             to
             him
             ,
             and
             the
             custody
             whereof
             belonged
             to
             others
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             must
             observe
             to
             You
             ,
             that
             there
             have
             been
             great
             Endeavours
             used
             to
             Invalidate
             our
             Testimony
             ,
             we
             have
             had
             Witnesses
             called
             against
             Witnesses
             ,
             and
             my
             Lord
             hath
             had
             that
             Advantage
             to
             do
             it
             ,
             which
             perhaps
             was
             never
             given
             in
             any
             Case
             before
             ,
             and
             which
             I
             hope
             will
             never
             be
             again
             .
             The
             Evidence
             hath
             been
             Printed
             and
             Published
             to
             the
             World
             before
             it
             hath
             been
             given
             .
             I
             say
             not
             that
             it
             was
             not
             necessary
             in
             this
             Case
             ,
             which
             was
             a
             National
             Cause
             ,
             and
             the
             Cause
             of
             our
             Religion
             ;
             but
             I
             do
             say
             it
             would
             not
             be
             fit
             to
             be
             done
             in
             other
             Cases
             ,
             for
             the
             notifying
             of
             the
             Evidence
             is
             the
             way
             to
             have
             it
             falsified
             and
             corrupted
             .
          
           
             But
             notwithstanding
             all
             these
             Advantages
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             I
             appeal
             to
             your
             Lordships
             Memories
             what
             considerable
             contradiction
             hath
             been
             given
             .
             It
             is
             true
             some
             Witnesses
             to
             that
             end
             have
             been
             brought
             before
             your
             Lordships
             ,
             but
             those
             Witnesses
             have
             been
             rendred
             incredible
             ,
             by
             more
             credible
             persons
             ;
             and
             I
             would
             desire
             your
             Lordships
             to
             observe
             ,
             That
             tho'
             my
             Lord
             hath
             failed
             of
             proving
             any
             Subornation
             in
             our
             Witnesses
             ,
             yet
             we
             have
             proved
             much
             Subornation
             endeavoured
             by
             his
             Agents
             .
          
           
             Your
             Lordships
             have
             the
             Record
             against
             Redding
             before
             you
             ,
             and
             what
             Reference
             that
             hath
             to
             the
             Lords
             in
             the
             Tower
             ,
             every
             one
             does
             remember
             ,
             and
             my
             Lord
             is
             mentioned
             in
             that
             Record
             .
             And
             I
             might
             likewise
             mention
             the
             business
             of
             Cellier
             ,
             and
             what
             therein
             related
             to
             the
             Lords
             in
             the
             Tower
             ,
             and
             I
             'le
             name
             but
             two
             Witnesses
             more
             that
             have
             been
             attempted
             upon
             this
             Nature
             :
             There
             was
             Wright
             the
             Barber
             ,
             all
             the
             Applications
             were
             made
             to
             him
             that
             could
             be
             ,
             Money
             given
             ,
             Letters
             writ
             ,
             Insinuations
             that
             he
             was
             not
             to
             Swear
             ,
             he
             was
             but
             to
             Write
             ,
             and
             that
             was
             easily
             done
             :
             or
             if
             he
             would
             be
             so
             kind
             to
             Swear
             it
             ,
             he
             should
             never
             come
             into
             open
             Court
             ,
             only
             go
             before
             a
             Justice
             of
             Peace
             .
             So
             that
             your
             Lordships
             will
             observe
             by
             what
             steps
             and
             degrees
             men
             were
             endeavoured
             to
             be
             Suborned
             .
             And
             then
             Launder
             tells
             you
             what
             was
             offered
             to
             him
             to
             perjure
             himself
             ,
             how
             he
             was
             brought
             to
             Tixall
             ,
             and
             what
             endeavours
             were
             used
             to
             make
             him
             Swear
             against
             our
             Witnesses
             .
          
           
             These
             things
             are
             plain
             ,
             both
             by
             Records
             and
             particular
             Proofs
             upon
             Oath
             .
             But
             ,
             my
             Lords
             ,
             lest
             we
             should
             want
             proof
             of
             all
             ,
             This
             very
             Lord
             (
             I
             pity
             him
             for
             it
             )
             hath
             been
             so
             unfortunate
             as
             to
             bring
             that
             Paper
             out
             of
             his
             Pocket
             ,
             which
             Wright
             says
             he
             had
             money
             to
             frame
             ,
             and
             was
             to
             Swear
             to
             .
             It
             seems
             my
             Lord
             had
             the
             Command
             of
             it
             ,
             it
             seems
             to
             have
             been
             prepared
             for
             such
             a
             good
             time
             as
             This
             ,
             and
             the
             producing
             of
             this
             Paper
             is
             as
             full
             a
             Confirmation
             of
             this
             point
             as
             can
             in
             reason
             be
             expected
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             I
             have
             been
             I
             fear
             too
             long
             already
             ,
             and
             yet
             I
             fear
             ,
             I
             have
             omitted
             as
             many
             particulars
             as
             I
             have
             mentioned
             .
          
           
             My
             Lords
             ,
             The
             Evidence
             is
             so
             strong
             ,
             that
             I
             think
             it
             admits
             of
             no
             doubt
             ,
             
             and
             the
             Offences
             proved
             against
             my
             Lord
             and
             the
             rest
             of
             his
             Party
             are
             so
             foul
             that
             they
             need
             no
             aggravation
             .
             The
             Offences
             are
             against
             the
             King
             ,
             against
             His
             Sacred
             Life
             ,
             against
             the
             Protestant
             Religion
             ,
             nay
             against
             all
             Protestants
             ,
             for
             it
             was
             for
             the
             Extirpation
             of
             all
             Protestants
             out
             of
             these
             Three
             Nations
             .
             I
             mean
             not
             of
             every
             one
             that
             is
             now
             so
             ,
             but
             of
             every
             one
             that
             would
             have
             continued
             so
             ,
             every
             one
             amongst
             us
             (
             if
             these
             Designs
             had
             been
             accomplished
             )
             must
             either
             have
             turned
             his
             Religion
             ,
             or
             turned
             out
             of
             his
             Countrey
             ,
             or
             have
             been
             burned
             in
             it
             .
          
           
             'T
             is
             a
             Design
             that
             appears
             with
             so
             dreadful
             a
             Countenance
             to
             Your
             Lordships
             ,
             to
             this
             great
             Assembly
             ,
             and
             to
             the
             whole
             Nation
             ,
             that
             it
             needs
             not
             any
             words
             I
             can
             use
             to
             make
             you
             apprehend
             it
             .
             If
             the
             matter
             be
             fully
             proved
             (
             as
             I
             see
             no
             reason
             to
             doubt
             but
             that
             it
             is
             )
             I
             am
             sure
             your
             Lordships
             will
             do
             that
             Justice
             to
             Your
             King
             and
             Countrey
             as
             to
             give
             Judgment
             against
             these
             Offenders
             ,
             which
             will
             not
             only
             be
             a
             Security
             to
             us
             against
             them
             ,
             but
             a
             Terror
             to
             all
             others
             against
             comitting
             the
             like
             Offences
             .
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               beg
               of
               your
               Lordships
               to
               know
               whether
               you
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               speak
               a
               word
               .
               And
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               not
               speak
               any
               thing
               but
               as
               to
               a
               mistake
               ,
               Sir
               
                 Will.
                 Jones
              
               hath
               made
               in
               two
               or
               three
               things
               .
               Pray
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               may
               I
               put
               you
               in
               mind
               of
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               there
               be
               any
               mistake
               pray
               tell
               us
               what
               it
               is
               ?
            
          
           
             
               L.
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               First
               ,
               My
               Lords
               ,
               he
               did
               omit
               telling
               you
               that
               Mr.
               
               Turbervill's
               Brother
               did
               say
               he
               came
               in
               (
               71
               )
               to
               my
               Lord
               
               Powis's
               .
               Secondly
               ,
               He
               says
               I
               have
               proved
               my self
               a
               Papist
               because
               I
               have
               not
               taken
               the
               Test
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Test
               was
               since
               I
               was
               in
               the
               Tower
               ,
               and
               whether
               I
               will
               take
               it
               or
               not
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               yet
               know
               till
               it
               be
               offered
               me
               .
               The
               Third
               is
               this
               ,
               That
               this
               Letter
               was
               in
               my
               Pocket
               which
               I
               produced
               to
               you
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               knew
               nothing
               what
               was
               in
               it
               ,
               it
               was
               given
               into
               my
               hand
               as
               I
               stood
               here
               at
               the
               Bar.
               Fourthly
               ,
               He
               said
               Hobson
               did
               go
               out
               of
               England
               with
               the
               Almoner
               ,
               he
               did
               not
               so
               .
               Another
               thing
               he
               says
               ,
               that
               I
               said
               Oats
               was
               an
               infamous
               person
               because
               he
               went
               to
               a
               Church
               that
               I
               said
               was
               Idolatrous
               ,
               I
               only
               said
               it
               was
               so
               adjudged
               by
               Act
               of
               Parliament
               .
               I
               find
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               these
               things
               he
               is
               mistaken
               in
               ,
               and
               that
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               made
               me
               very
               willing
               to
               put
               You
               in
               mind
               of
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Gentlemen
               ,
               I
               would
               ask
               you
               whether
               you
               take
               any
               Notice
               of
               the
               Points
               in
               Law
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               After
               the
               Fact
               is
               stated
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               we
               shall
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             
               Mr.
               Powle
            
             ,
             also
             one
             of
             the
             Committee
             appointed
             to
             manage
             the
             Evidence
             ,
             proceeded
             further
             in
             Summing
             up
             of
             the
             same
             .
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Powle
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Learned
               Person
               that
               spake
               last
               ,
               hath
               left
               very
               little
               for
               me
               to
               say
               in
               the
               Summing
               of
               this
               Evidence
               ;
               But
               because
               this
               Noble
               
               Lord
               hath
               been
               pleased
               to
               alledge
               several
               Reasons
               ,
               from
               whence
               he
               would
               infer
               at
               least
               a
               great
               improbability
               that
               he
               should
               be
               guilty
               of
               the
               Treasons
               whereof
               he
               stands
               Accused
               ,
               I
               shall
               crave
               your
               Lordships
               patience
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               give
               Three
               or
               Four
               words
               in
               answer
               to
               those
               particulars
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               In
               the
               first
               place
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               was
               pleased
               to
               begin
               ,
               and
               afterwards
               to
               continue
               his
               Defence
               with
               making
               protestations
               of
               his
               own
               Innocency
               ;
               We
               very
               well
               know
               your
               Lordships
               sit
               now
               in
               the
               Seat
               of
               Justice
               ,
               and
               whatsoever
               credit
               or
               regard
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               give
               to
               the
               Protestations
               of
               a
               Peer
               in
               another
               Case
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               proceed
               here
               only
               according
               to
               your
               Proofs
               and
               your
               Evidence
               
                 (
                 secundum
                 allegata
                 &
                 probata
              
               )
               and
               therefore
               all
               we
               shall
               say
               to
               this
               ,
               is
               ,
               that
               we
               hope
               our
               Proofs
               are
               so
               clear
               and
               evident
               ,
               as
               will
               leave
               no
               room
               to
               your
               Lordships
               to
               believe
               this
               Noble
               Lords
               Protestations
               .
            
             
               In
               the
               next
               place
               ,
               my
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               to
               alledge
               ,
               and
               withal
               to
               lay
               some
               weight
               upon
               it
               ,
               the
               voluntary
               surrendring
               of
               himself
               to
               Justice
               ,
               and
               he
               laid
               it
               down
               as
               a
               Rule
               ,
               that
               as
               Flight
               is
               an
               argument
               of
               Guilt
               ,
               so
               the
               Surrendring
               of
               a
               mans
               self
               to
               the
               Trial
               of
               the
               Law
               ,
               is
               an
               argument
               of
               Innocency
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               admit
               the
               Rule
               generally
               to
               be
               true
               ;
               but
               in
               some
               particular
               Cases
               it
               may
               be
               otherwise
               ;
               for
               a
               Man
               that
               is
               not
               very
               confident
               of
               his
               own
               Innocency
               ,
               may
               yet
               be
               very
               confident
               of
               the
               strength
               of
               his
               Party
               ;
               and
               whether
               the
               consideration
               of
               the
               circumstances
               of
               Affairs
               ,
               as
               they
               then
               stood
               ,
               and
               the
               power
               and
               prevalency
               of
               the
               Popish
               party
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               might
               not
               reasonably
               create
               such
               a
               confidence
               in
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               we
               must
               leave
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               do
               conceive
               that
               those
               Persons
               who
               contrived
               Sir
               Edmundbury
               Godfrey's
               Murder
               ,
               had
               so
               great
               Confidence
               in
               the
               favour
               and
               protection
               of
               some
               of
               their
               Party
               ,
               that
               they
               thought
               themselves
               able
               to
               out-face
               Justice
               .
            
             
               And
               we
               verily
               believe
               ,
               they
               intended
               it
               as
               an
               example
               to
               deter
               all
               Men
               from
               medling
               so
               much
               as
               with
               the
               taking
               an
               Examination
               concerning
               this
               Horrid
               Plot.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               be
               understood
               aright
               in
               this
               ,
               I
               lay
               nothing
               of
               the
               Death
               of
               Sir
               
                 Edmundbury
                 Godfrey
              
               to
               the
               Charge
               of
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               I
               only
               use
               it
               as
               an
               Argument
               of
               the
               presumption
               of
               the
               Popish
               party
               at
               that
               time
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               In
               the
               next
               place
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               did
               observe
               from
               my
               Lord
               Coke
               ,
               that
               in
               the
               Tryals
               of
               Treasons
               we
               ought
               very
               much
               to
               guide
               our
               Judgments
               by
               the
               Nature
               and
               Circumstances
               of
               the
               Fact
               (
               the
               Concomitants
               and
               subsequents
               ,
               as
               he
               termed
               them
               )
               with
               Reference
               to
               the
               Person
               accused
               ,
               whether
               they
               were
               likely
               to
               induce
               or
               deter
               him
               from
               such
               an
               Attempt
               ,
               and
               here
               he
               was
               pleased
               to
               raise
               some
               Arguments
               from
               the
               whole
               course
               of
               his
               Life
               ,
               and
               did
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               consider
               those
               Circumstances
               therein
               that
               
               might
               make
               it
               improbable
               or
               impossible
               ,
               that
               he
               should
               commit
               a
               Treason
               of
               this
               Nature
               .
            
             
               He
               desired
               also
               your
               Lordships
               to
               remember
               that
               he
               was
               descended
               from
               an
               Honourable
               Family
               ,
               and
               that
               his
               Ancestors
               were
               very
               worthy
               and
               very
               deserving
               Persons
               ,
               and
               such
               as
               had
               often
               ventured
               their
               Lives
               in
               defence
               of
               their
               Country
               ;
               And
               here
               he
               did
               likewise
               mention
               his
               own
               Services
               to
               the
               last
               King
               ,
               and
               our
               present
               Soveraign
               ,
               in
               the
               late
               Wars
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               not
               my
               part
               ,
               nor
               will
               I
               derogate
               any
               thing
               from
               the
               Merits
               of
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               much
               less
               from
               the
               Honour
               of
               his
               Family
               ;
               but
               in
               Answer
               to
               this
               we
               shall
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               consider
               ,
               that
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               (
               however
               he
               is
               pleased
               to
               disown
               it
               at
               present
               )
               is
               notoriously
               known
               to
               be
               a
               Roman
               Catholick
               (
               as
               they
               call
               themselves
               )
               and
               such
               we
               conceive
               we
               have
               sufficiently
               proved
               him
               to
               be
               ,
               in
               the
               course
               of
               our
               Evidence
               :
               And
               as
               there
               is
               nothing
               in
               the
               World
               so
               much
               as
               a
               misguided
               Conscience
               that
               can
               ingage
               the
               best
               of
               Men
               into
               the
               worst
               of
               Actions
               ,
               so
               we
               think
               the
               Principles
               of
               that
               Religion
               are
               such
               ,
               as
               are
               more
               likely
               to
               pervert
               Men
               from
               their
               Duty
               and
               Allegiance
               ,
               than
               any
               other
               Religion
               or
               Perswasion
               whatsoever
               .
            
             
               And
               if
               the
               Zeal
               of
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               did
               engage
               him
               to
               endeavour
               the
               establishment
               of
               that
               Religion
               in
               this
               Kingdom
               ,
               we
               may
               easily
               believe
               that
               his
               Reason
               did
               suggest
               to
               him
               ,
               the
               means
               by
               which
               it
               must
               be
               effected
               ,
               which
               could
               be
               no
               other
               but
               Blood
               and
               Confusion
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               The
               last
               thing
               I
               shall
               take
               notice
               of
               ,
               is
               ,
               what
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               was
               pleased
               to
               say
               in
               General
               as
               to
               the
               Doctrine
               of
               Killing
               and
               Deposing
               Princes
               ,
               which
               his
               Lordship
               was
               pleased
               to
               call
               a
               private
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               not
               the
               Doctrine
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               .
            
             
               But
               by
               the
               way
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               observe
               ,
               that
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               did
               upon
               this
               occasion
               fully
               own
               (
               and
               I
               much
               commend
               his
               Ingenuity
               in
               it
               )
               the
               reality
               of
               the
               Gun
               Powder
               Treason
               ,
               since
               we
               know
               ,
               how
               much
               that
               Party
               have
               endeavoured
               to
               render
               it
               Incredible
               ;
               and
               as
               length
               of
               time
               hath
               so
               fully
               manifested
               the
               particulars
               of
               that
               Execrable
               Design
               ,
               that
               it
               hath
               brought
               such
               as
               are
               of
               that
               Perswasion
               to
               confess
               the
               truth
               of
               it
               ;
               so
               ,
               we
               hope
               ,
               this
               days
               Tryal
               will
               convince
               both
               the
               Age
               we
               live
               in
               ,
               and
               all
               Posterity
               of
               the
               Truth
               and
               Reality
               of
               this
               present
               Conspiracy
               .
               But
               to
               go
               on
               with
               that
               Point
               from
               which
               I
               did
               digress
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               I
               confess
               much
               versed
               in
               the
               Canons
               and
               Councils
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               I
               know
               ,
               the
               most
               famous
               and
               celebrated
               Writers
               of
               that
               Church
               ,
               especially
               of
               the
               Society
               of
               the
               Jesuits
               ,
               have
               publickly
               avowed
               and
               maintained
               this
               Doctrine
               ;
               And
               we
               know
               in
               all
               times
               ,
               when
               there
               hath
               been
               occasion
               to
               put
               it
               in
               practice
               ,
               it
               hath
               never
               failed
               to
               have
               been
               attempted
               ;
               and
               we
               likewise
               know
               that
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               and
               the
               Pope
               have
               
               always
               avowed
               the
               Acts
               when
               they
               have
               been
               done
               :
               From
               all
               which
               we
               might
               very
               reasonably
               conclude
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               the
               Doctrine
               of
               that
               Church
               so
               to
               do
               .
            
             
               But
               ,
               my
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               to
               say
               ,
               and
               admit
               for
               Truth
               ,
               That
               a
               great
               many
               private
               Writers
               do
               hold
               the
               contrary
               ,
               I
               believe
               it
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               also
               believe
               ,
               that
               it
               is
               the
               Policy
               and
               Artifice
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               to
               leave
               this
               Point
               of
               Doctrine
               in
               some
               measure
               undetermined
               ,
               that
               so
               they
               may
               make
               use
               of
               it
               as
               the
               occasion
               serves
               ;
               For
               if
               it
               succeeds
               ,
               then
               it
               is
               owned
               and
               justified
               ,
               if
               it
               miscarry
               ,
               then
               the
               Doctrine
               is
               but
               a
               private
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               the
               Plot
               but
               the
               Practice
               of
               particular
               Persons
               that
               are
               either
               desperate
               or
               discontented
               .
               And
               I
               am
               fully
               of
               Opinion
               ,
               that
               This
               Horrid
               Conspiracy
               which
               is
               brought
               this
               day
               in
               Judgment
               before
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               wants
               nothing
               but
               Success
               to
               canonize
               it
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               As
               to
               what
               concerns
               the
               Evidence
               ,
               it
               hath
               been
               so
               fully
               stated
               to
               You
               ,
               and
               the
               Objections
               that
               were
               raised
               to
               invalidate
               it
               ,
               so
               well
               answered
               ,
               that
               I
               will
               not
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               any
               Repitition
               of
               what
               hath
               been
               said
               already
               :
               All
               we
               have
               further
               to
               desire
               ,
               is
               ,
               That
               your
               Lordships
               will
               please
               to
               take
               our
               Evidence
               into
               your
               Consideration
               ,
               and
               to
               do
               thereupon
               what
               shall
               be
               agreeable
               to
               Justice
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serj.
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               as
               to
               Matter
               of
               Fact
               I
               shall
               say
               nothing
               but
               only
               this
               (
               and
               I
               wish
               it
               may
               be
               spoken
               with
               Gratitude
               to
               Almighty
               God
               ,
               )
               that
               the
               Discovery
               of
               this
               Plot
               is
               rather
               the
               Work
               of
               God
               than
               Man.
               It
               was
               first
               his
               Act
               in
               prevailing
               upon
               Oats
               to
               make
               the
               Discovery
               ;
               and
               when
               he
               stood
               single
               almost
               ,
               what
               came
               to
               support
               his
               Credit
               but
               the
               Letters
               of
               Coleman
               ,
               which
               were
               like
               a
               Tally
               to
               what
               Oats
               had
               said
               ,
               for
               what
               Oats
               informs
               is
               in
               a
               great
               part
               made
               good
               by
               his
               Letters
               .
               Then
               when
               Godfrey
               was
               murther'd
               ,
               how
               came
               that
               Discovery
               out
               ,
               but
               by
               the
               voluntary
               Confession
               of
               one
               engaged
               in
               the
               whole
               Plot
               ,
               I
               mean
               Bedloe
               ?
               So
               that
               though
               these
               men
               had
               engaged
               themselves
               by
               wicked
               Oaths
               ,
               yet
               their
               own
               Consciences
               witnessing
               against
               them
               in
               themselves
               ,
               they
               could
               not
               forbear
               coming
               in
               to
               testifie
               against
               themselves
               .
               I
               shall
               say
               no
               more
               ,
               than
               that
               we
               ought
               to
               acknowledge
               the
               Hand
               of
               God
               in
               the
               Discovery
               with
               great
               Thankfulness
               ;
               for
               it
               is
               He
               and
               He
               alone
               that
               out
               of
               his
               own
               Grace
               and
               Goodness
               hath
               done
               it
               ,
               and
               thereby
               preserved
               the
               Life
               of
               our
               Prince
               to
               us
               ,
               and
               in
               Him
               us
               too
               .
            
             
               But
               as
               to
               the
               Matter
               in
               Law.
               
            
             
               My
               Lord
               has
               been
               pleased
               to
               mention
               first
               this
               ,
               That
               there
               is
               no
               Overt
               Act.
               I
               wonder
               that
               my
               Lord
               should
               be
               so
               much
               mistaken
               .
               When
               it
               is
               charged
               in
               the
               Articles
               ,
               and
               proved
               to
               his
               Face
               he
               received
               a
               Commission
               ,
               
               Is
               not
               that
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ?
               He
               is
               charged
               in
               the
               Articles
               of
               Impeachment
               with
               Contriving
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               being
               at
               several
               Meetings
               and
               Consults
               about
               the
               King's
               Death
               ,
               and
               H●●ing
               Persons
               to
               Kill
               the
               King
               ;
               And
               are
               these
               no
               Overt
               Acts
               ?
               Therefore
               as
               to
               that
               my
               Lord
               is
               mistaken
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               another
               Exception
               that
               is
               taken
               ,
               is
               ,
               That
               there
               is
               no
               Indictment
               .
               I
               conceive
               that
               an
               Impeachment
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               is
               more
               than
               an
               Indictment
               .
               And
               there
               cannot
               be
               any
               doubt
               of
               that
               ,
               the
               Impeachment
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               having
               always
               been
               received
               and
               proceeded
               on
               by
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
             
               But
               that
               which
               is
               most
               insisted
               upon
               ,
               is
               ,
               That
               this
               Charge
               that
               is
               made
               against
               this
               Lord
               was
               presented
               in
               another
               Parliament
               .
               It
               is
               true
               ,
               but
               under
               favour
               ,
               what
               is
               once
               upon
               Record
               in
               Parliament
               may
               at
               any
               time
               afterwards
               be
               proceeded
               upon
               .
               It
               is
               a
               sudden
               Objection
               ,
               but
               I
               conceive
               it
               hath
               been
               done
               .
               However
               in
               a
               Case
               of
               this
               Nature
               ,
               when
               the
               Life
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               when
               our
               own
               Lives
               ,
               and
               our
               Nation
               ,
               and
               our
               Religion
               lies
               at
               stake
               ,
               if
               there
               were
               not
               a
               Precedent
               ,
               I
               hope
               You
               would
               make
               a
               Precedent
               .
               But
               under
               favour
               ,
               Reason
               is
               for
               it
               ,
               the
               Charge
               is
               before
               You
               ,
               the
               Proof
               is
               made
               ,
               and
               we
               pray
               You
               will
               judge
               according
               as
               the
               Evidence
               hath
               been
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               as
               to
               these
               Matters
               of
               Law
               ,
               I
               think
               they
               are
               of
               so
               little
               difficulty
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               will
               not
               desire
               to
               have
               Counsel
               assigned
               him
               ,
               I
               am
               sure
               his
               Counsel
               will
               not
               desire
               to
               speak
               to
               them
               .
            
             
               For
               this
               last
               Matter
               which
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               spoke
               of
               ,
               and
               which
               was
               first
               named
               by
               the
               Prisoner
               ,
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordship
               to
               consider
               what
               it
               is
               .
               Says
               my
               Lord
               the
               Prisoner
               ,
               there
               was
               an
               Impeachment
               begun
               in
               the
               Long
               Parliament
               ,
               and
               this
               is
               now
               the
               Third
               Parliament
               in
               which
               I
               am
               brought
               to
               my
               Tryal
               .
               It
               is
               very
               true
               ,
               there
               was
               a
               General
               Impeachment
               in
               the
               Long
               Parliament
               ,
               the
               particular
               one
               was
               in
               the
               last
               ,
               and
               this
               Lord
               was
               pleased
               to
               plead
               in
               the
               last
               .
               It
               may
               be
               he
               was
               not
               so
               well
               advised
               then
               as
               he
               is
               now
               .
            
             
               But
               my
               Lords
               ,
               How
               can
               this
               be
               a
               doubt
               ,
               when
               your
               Lordships
               have
               resolv'd
               ,
               and
               have
               sent
               it
               down
               to
               the
               Commons
               ;
               and
               it
               is
               there
               entred
               in
               their
               Book
               ,
               as
               the
               Law
               and
               Constitution
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               that
               not
               only
               Impeachments
               but
               all
               Judicial
               proceedings
               continue
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               ,
               in
               the
               same
               state
               that
               they
               were
               in
               at
               the
               Rising
               of
               the
               last
               Parliament
               .
            
             
               This
               is
               now
               become
               the
               Law
               of
               Your
               House
               ,
               and
               it
               is
               under
               favour
               ,
               being
               so
               ,
               the
               Law
               of
               the
               Kingdom
               ;
               and
               You
               having
               thus
               declared
               it
               ,
               and
               sent
               it
               to
               the
               Commons
               ,
               I
               hope
               the
               Commons
               had
               very
               good
               reason
               to
               proceed
               upon
               this
               Impeachment
               at
               this
               time
               .
            
             
               The
               next
               matter
               is
               concerning
               the
               Overt
               Acts
               ,
               I
               think
               there
               are
               sufficient
               Overt
               Acts
               in
               proof
               and
               sufficient
               in
               the
               Impeachment
               .
               Will
               any
               man
               
               de●y
               tha●
               t●e
               Receiving
               a
               Commission
               to
               be
               Pay-master
               of
               an
               Army
               is
               an
               Overt
               '
               Act
               ?
               Will
               any
               deny
               that
               the
               sending
               for
               the
               Witness
               and
               offering
               him
               money
               in
               order
               to
               hire
               him
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               is
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ?
               and
               (
               which
               answers
               to
               all
               )
               will
               any
               man
               deny
               that
               the
               meeting
               and
               consulting
               of
               several
               men
               together
               ,
               about
               killing
               the
               King
               and
               changing
               the
               Government
               is
               an
               Overt
               Act.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               These
               are
               all
               Overt
               Acts
               ,
               and
               I
               cannot
               but
               think
               it
               was
               without
               advice
               of
               my
               Lords
               Counsel
               that
               he
               made
               these
               Objections
               ;
               for
               indeed
               these
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               are
               laid
               in
               the
               Impeachment
               as
               fully
               as
               they
               are
               made
               out
               in
               proof
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               is
               another
               Objection
               that
               my
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               to
               make
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               ,
               that
               there
               is
               but
               one
               Witness
               to
               a
               particular
               Fact.
               
            
          
           
             
               L.
               H.
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               What
               say
               you
               to
               that
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Will.
               Jones
               .
            
             
               That
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               is
               of
               little
               weight
               ,
               with
               submission
               ;
               for
               our
               Impeachments
               ,
               and
               our
               Proofs
               run
               to
               this
               ,
               that
               my
               Lord
               had
               a
               Design
               and
               Intention
               to
               destroy
               the
               King
               ,
               this
               was
               to
               be
               done
               by
               Force
               ,
               and
               this
               was
               to
               be
               done
               by
               secret
               Assassination
               .
               Now
               if
               several
               Witnesses
               come
               and
               prove
               each
               a
               distinct
               Act
               ,
               under
               this
               Head
               of
               killing
               the
               King
               ,
               it
               is
               so
               many
               Proofs
               or
               Witnesses
               to
               the
               Treason
               .
            
             
               For
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               a
               man
               shall
               intend
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               shall
               buy
               a
               Knife
               in
               one
               County
               at
               one
               time
               ,
               and
               send
               for
               a
               man
               out
               of
               another
               County
               at
               another
               time
               ,
               whom
               he
               shall
               hire
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               these
               distinct
               Acts
               are
               proved
               by
               several
               Witnesses
               ,
               if
               they
               concur
               to
               the
               same
               general
               Treason
               ,
               they
               are
               all
               but
               parts
               of
               that
               ,
               and
               so
               are
               so
               many
               Witnesses
               to
               the
               whole
               .
               And
               so
               I
               am
               sure
               it
               was
               resolved
               in
               the
               Case
               of
               others
               of
               the
               Conspirators
               in
               the
               
                 Old
                 Baily
              
               ,
               and
               before
               that
               in
               the
               Case
               of
               Sir
               
                 Henry
                 Vane
              
               .
               But
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               in
               this
               Case
               here
               is
               first
               a
               Proof
               ,
               that
               he
               accepted
               a
               Commission
               ,
               which
               I
               do
               not
               use
               as
               an
               Act
               for
               the
               levying
               of
               War
               only
               ,
               but
               as
               a
               Design
               to
               change
               the
               Government
               and
               destroy
               the
               King.
               Here
               is
               meeting
               and
               consulting
               how
               to
               do
               this
               wicked
               Work
               ,
               I
               mean
               ,
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               that
               is
               another
               Overt
               Act
               ;
               Here
               is
               offering
               money
               to
               one
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               for
               that
               end
               ,
               that
               is
               a
               third
               Overt
               Act
               ;
               and
               there
               is
               attempting
               another
               of
               them
               though
               not
               with
               Money
               yet
               with
               Promises
               of
               Reward
               in
               general
               ,
               that
               is
               another
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               all
               which
               are
               to
               this
               end
               ,
               the
               Killing
               of
               the
               King.
               And
               I
               am
               sure
               of
               it
               your
               Lordships
               cannot
               but
               receive
               satisfaction
               from
               my
               Lords
               the
               Judges
               ,
               that
               it
               hath
               always
               been
               so
               held
               ,
               that
               though
               there
               need
               Two
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               Treason
               ,
               yet
               there
               needs
               no
               more
               than
               one
               to
               one
               Act
               ,
               and
               another
               to
               another
               ,
               if
               the
               several
               Acts
               fall
               under
               the
               same
               Head
               of
               Treason
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Franc.
               Winn.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               crave
               your
               patience
               but
               for
               a
               word
               or
               two
               ,
               and
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               will
               have
               little
               Reason
               to
               say
               his
               Objections
               in
               point
               of
               Law
               are
               
               of
               any
               weight
               .
               I
               confess
               he
               had
               said
               a
               great
               thing
               ,
               if
               it
               were
               true
               ,
               that
               the
               Articles
               of
               Impeachment
               did
               not
               alledge
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ;
               for
               then
               indeed
               they
               had
               been
               apparently
               defective
               .
               But
               under
               his
               pardon
               ,
               that
               is
               not
               a
               point
               of
               Law
               but
               a
               point
               of
               Fact.
               Let
               us
               therefore
               resort
               to
               the
               Articles
               themselves
               .
               In
               the
               2
               d
               Article
               it
               is
               alledged
               that
               he
               with
               the
               rest
               did
               most
               wickedly
               and
               traiterously
               agree
               ,
               conspire
               ,
               and
               resolve
               to
               Imprison
               ,
               Depose
               and
               Murther
               His
               Sacred
               Majesty
               ,
               and
               to
               deprive
               Him
               of
               his
               Regal
               State
               and
               Government
               .
               And
               then
               the
               same
               Article
               alledges
               farther
               ,
               that
               they
               did
               contrive
               and
               consult
               to
               effect
               the
               Murther
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               by
               Shooting
               ,
               by
               Poisoning
               ,
               and
               by
               Stabbing
               .
               All
               these
               particulars
               are
               expressed
               ,
               so
               that
               when
               my
               Lord
               said
               the
               Articles
               were
               therein
               defective
               ,
               all
               we
               can
               say
               ,
               is
               ,
               that
               he
               was
               misinform'd
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               was
               another
               Exception
               taken
               ,
               that
               this
               is
               the
               Impeachment
               of
               another
               Parliament
               .
               I
               must
               not
               now
               repeat
               how
               this
               Point
               was
               agreed
               by
               both
               Houses
               at
               a
               Conference
               .
               But
               it
               was
               then
               declared
               upon
               search
               of
               Precedents
               in
               all
               ages
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               the
               Law
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               which
               is
               the
               Law
               of
               the
               Land
               ,
               that
               if
               once
               an
               Impeachment
               by
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               were
               lodged
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               ,
               tho'
               that
               Parliament
               were
               dissolved
               ,
               the
               Impeachment
               remained
               in
               the
               same
               state
               .
               It
               was
               the
               Cause
               of
               the
               Commons
               of
               England
               ,
               who
               only
               change
               their
               Representatives
               in
               a
               new
               Parliament
               .
               It
               has
               been
               also
               objected
               ,
               that
               this
               Prosecution
               ought
               to
               have
               been
               upon
               an
               Indictment
               .
               As
               if
               an
               Accusation
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               who
               are
               the
               grand
               Inquest
               of
               the
               Nation
               ,
               were
               not
               as
               effectual
               to
               bring
               Offenders
               to
               Justice
               as
               the
               finding
               of
               a
               particular
               Jury
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               should
               wonder
               to
               hear
               this
               Objection
               made
               ,
               were
               not
               my
               Lord
               to
               be
               easily
               excused
               for
               his
               knowing
               the
               Law
               no
               better
               .
               None
               who
               know
               any
               thing
               in
               the
               Law
               would
               have
               urg'd
               such
               a
               thing
               .
               His
               Counsel
               ,
               I
               dare
               say
               ,
               did
               not
               suggest
               this
               matter
               to
               him
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               true
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               when
               a
               Peer
               comes
               to
               be
               Tried
               by
               way
               of
               Commission
               ,
               or
               in
               Parliament
               when
               it
               is
               not
               at
               the
               prosecution
               of
               the
               Commons
               ,
               there
               an
               Indictment
               is
               first
               found
               in
               the
               proper
               County
               ,
               and
               brought
               up
               before
               the
               Peers
               by
               Certiorari
               ,
               and
               upon
               that
               they
               proceed
               .
               But
               whether
               the
               Party
               be
               Peer
               or
               Commoner
               ,
               if
               he
               be
               Impeach'd
               for
               any
               Crimes
               ,
               surely
               no
               one
               can
               deny
               ,
               but
               that
               by
               the
               constant
               use
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               the
               Lords
               have
               proceeded
               to
               Trial
               ,
               and
               have
               given
               Judgment
               thereupon
               without
               an
               Indictment
               found
               .
               So
               that
               this
               Exception
               will
               be
               of
               no
               force
               at
               all
               .
            
             
               As
               for
               the
               remaining
               Objection
               ,
               that
               there
               are
               not
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               any
               one
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               the
               Kings
               Person
               would
               be
               in
               no
               manner
               of
               safety
               ,
               if
               that
               Doctrine
               should
               be
               once
               allowed
               .
               Conspiring
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               is
               the
               Treason
               laid
               in
               the
               Impeachment
               ,
               and
               the
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               are
               so
               many
               several
               Evidences
               of
               that
               Treason
               .
               Words
               themselves
               if
               they
               signifie
               an
               intention
               to
               do
               an
               Act
               ,
               and
               express
               something
               to
               be
               done
               
                 in
                 futuro
              
               are
               a
               sufficient
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               &
               a
               legal
               Evidence
               of
               Treason
               .
               Then
               we
               prove
               by
               another
               Witness
               ,
               not
               words
               of
               encouragement
               only
               but
               offers
               of
               money
               ,
               and
               they
               are
               both
               to
               the
               same
               kind
               of
               Treason
               tho'
               not
               to
               the
               same
               Act
               and
               at
               the
               same
               time
               .
               And
               if
               there
               must
               be
               2
               Witnesses
               to
               every
               single
               Act
               the
               King
               of
               England
               is
               not
               only
               in
               a
               far
               worse
               condition
               than
               any
               other
               Prince
               ,
               but
               than
               any
               one
               of
               his
               own
               Subjects
               ,
               Treasons
               may
               be
               committed
               every
               day
               with
               Impunity
               ,
               
               and
               unless
               the
               Traytors
               be
               as
               great
               Fools
               as
               Villains
               ,
               he
               shall
               never
               be
               safe
               from
               them
               ,
               nor
               capable
               of
               punishing
               them
               .
            
             
               I
               must
               say
               it
               ,
               and
               I
               say
               it
               with
               commiseration
               to
               the
               Condition
               of
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               ,
               that
               his
               Exceptions
               in
               Law
               are
               as
               weak
               as
               the
               Answers
               he
               has
               given
               to
               our
               Evidence
               .
               We
               hope
               no
               doubt
               in
               Law
               remains
               with
               you
               ,
               and
               that
               we
               have
               given
               your
               Lordships
               full
               satisfaction
               of
               the
               reality
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               and
               a
               convincing
               Evidence
               of
               the
               great
               share
               which
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               had
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               we
               humbly
               pray
               your
               Lordships
               Justice
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               do
               not
               take
               notice
               of
               one
               thing
               that
               my
               Lord
               Stafford
               said
               this
               morning
               ,
               That
               is
               ,
               that
               the
               Witnesses
               are
               not
               competent
               Witnesses
               because
               they
               swore
               for
               Money
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               fit
               to
               be
               spoken
               unto
               ,
               not
               for
               the
               Weight
               of
               the
               Objection
               so
               much
               as
               for
               the
               Satisfaction
               of
               the
               Auditory
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Francis
               Winnington
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               I
               had
               taken
               a
               Note
               of
               that
               ,
               but
               forgot
               to
               mention
               it
               .
               If
               my
               Lord
               at
               the
               Bar
               will
               say
               they
               have
               taken
               Money
               to
               swear
               ,
               that
               is
               purely
               a
               Matter
               of
               Fact
               ,
               which
               he
               ought
               to
               prove
               ,
               and
               that
               which
               is
               said
               and
               not
               proved
               ought
               to
               go
               for
               nothing
               ;
               let
               him
               prove
               his
               Case
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               and
               then
               we
               will
               give
               him
               an
               Answer
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordship
               can
               prove
               that
               they
               have
               had
               Money
               to
               swear
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               urges
               that
               which
               will
               be
               material
               ;
               but
               if
               it
               were
               only
               Money
               to
               maintain
               them
               ,
               that
               sure
               will
               amount
               to
               no
               Objection
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               submit
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               whether
               Dr.
               Oats
               and
               the
               rest
               have
               not
               had
               great
               Sums
               of
               Money
               besides
               their
               Charges
               ,
               10
               l.
               a
               week
               a
               piece
               .
               But
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               consider
               ,
               and
               I
               appeal
               to
               many
               of
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               whether
               it
               has
               not
               been
               said
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               a
               defect
               in
               
               Coleman's
               and
               
               Langhorn's
               Trials
               ,
               that
               they
               did
               not
               plead
               that
               ,
               and
               if
               they
               had
               pleaded
               it
               ,
               they
               must
               have
               been
               acquitted
               ,
               I
               will
               name
               no
               body
               ,
               but
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               whether
               some
               of
               you
               have
               not
               said
               so
               .
               But
               I
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               admit
               me
               to
               plead
               by
               my
               Counsel
               ;
               if
               not
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               you
               .
               I
               confess
               here
               is
               a
               piece
               of
               Law
               that
               I
               never
               heard
               of
               before
               ,
               that
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               and
               your
               Lordships
               at
               a
               Conference
               ,
               have
               adjudged
               it
               to
               be
               the
               Law
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               that
               Impeachments
               shall
               continue
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               .
               If
               you
               will
               please
               to
               hear
               my
               Counsel
               for
               me
               ,
               so
               ,
               if
               not
               I
               submit
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               would
               you
               ,
               or
               can
               you
               prove
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Those
               things
               that
               I
               have
               given
               in
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               desire
               my
               Counsel
               may
               be
               heard
               to
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Gentlemen
               ,
               what
               can
               you
               object
               why
               he
               should
               not
               have
               Counsel
               to
               argue
               his
               Objections
               in
               Law
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               think
               under
               favour
               ,
               if
               a
               Prisoner
               in
               a
               Capital
               Cause
               do
               desire
               Counsel
               ,
               he
               must
               not
               only
               alledge
               matter
               of
               Law
               to
               introduce
               
               that
               Desire
               ;
               but
               that
               which
               he
               doth
               alledge
               ,
               must
               be
               also
               a
               matter
               of
               some
               Doubt
               to
               the
               Court
               :
               For
               if
               he
               do
               alledge
               matter
               which
               in
               it self
               is
               not
               Disputable
               ,
               he
               shall
               have
               no
               Counsel
               allowed
               him
               .
               If
               your
               Lordships
               are
               not
               satisfied
               that
               it
               is
               the
               Law
               of
               your
               House
               ,
               that
               Proceedings
               upon
               Impeachments
               do
               continue
               from
               Parliament
               ,
               we
               cannot
               answer
               that
               ,
               it
               lies
               in
               your
               Lordships
               breasts
               ,
               it
               is
               not
               what
               we
               are
               to
               argue
               .
               because
               it
               is
               a
               matter
               that
               concerns
               the
               Law
               and
               Rules
               of
               Parliaments
               .
               Is
               there
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               any
               doubt
               of
               any
               other
               Point
               that
               is
               urged
               ?
               Is
               there
               any
               doubt
               of
               this
               thing
               ,
               whether
               if
               one
               Witness
               speak
               to
               one
               point
               of
               Fact
               and
               another
               to
               another
               upon
               the
               same
               sort
               of
               Treason
               ,
               but
               that
               these
               be
               two
               such
               Witnesses
               as
               the
               Law
               requires
               ?
               I
               pray
               then
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               consider
               the
               consequence
               of
               that
               doubt
               :
               A
               man
               shall
               talk
               with
               twenty
               Persons
               about
               a
               Design
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               in
               one
               and
               the
               same
               Room
               one
               after
               another
               ,
               by
               taking
               them
               into
               a
               Corner
               singly
               ,
               and
               if
               ten
               or
               all
               twenty
               come
               to
               prove
               it
               ,
               here
               is
               but
               one
               Witness
               to
               each
               Discourse
               .
               This
               would
               be
               a
               matter
               of
               dangerous
               Consequence
               ,
               but
               I
               hope
               will
               remain
               no
               manner
               of
               doubt
               with
               you
               ,
               nor
               is
               it
               fit
               to
               be
               argued
               .
            
             
               As
               to
               the
               Hiring
               of
               Witnesses
               to
               Swear
               ,
               I
               think
               that
               can
               be
               no
               point
               of
               Law
               till
               it
               be
               so
               proved
               in
               Fact.
               Doth
               his
               Lordship
               think
               ,
               that
               when
               His
               Majesty
               out
               of
               His
               Grace
               and
               Bounty
               allows
               a
               Maintainance
               to
               His
               Witnesses
               ,
               that
               that
               is
               an
               Objection
               to
               their
               Testimony
               .
               Doth
               not
               every
               man
               allow
               his
               Witnesses
               a
               a
               Maintainance
               ,
               and
               yet
               it
               never
               was
               thought
               a
               thing
               to
               take
               away
               their
               Evidence
               .
               It
               may
               be
               every
               one
               doth
               not
               give
               so
               large
               an
               allowance
               as
               the
               King
               ,
               because
               his
               Dignity
               is
               not
               so
               great
               .
               But
               can
               it
               be
               an
               Objection
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ?
               Have
               we
               that
               are
               the
               Prosecutors
               maintained
               them
               ?
               If
               His
               Majesty
               have
               been
               bountiful
               to
               His
               Witnesses
               ,
               what
               is
               that
               to
               this
               Cause
               of
               the
               Commons
               ?
               If
               my
               Lord
               can
               prove
               any
               thing
               of
               Bribery
               in
               us
               ,
               as
               he
               has
               proved
               for
               us
               against
               himself
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               an
               Objection
               .
               But
               till
               that
               Fact
               be
               proved
               ,
               I
               hope
               there
               is
               no
               ground
               for
               a
               Question
               in
               Law
               ;
               and
               if
               there
               be
               no
               doubt
               in
               Law
               ,
               I
               hope
               there
               will
               be
               no
               need
               of
               Counsel
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               What
               are
               the
               Points
               you
               would
               have
               Counsel
               too
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               To
               all
               of
               them
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Would
               you
               have
               Counsel
               to
               the
               first
               Point
               ,
               to
               argue
               what
               the
               Law
               of
               Parliaments
               is
               concerning
               the
               continuance
               of
               Impeachments
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               you
               will
               declare
               the
               Law
               to
               be
               as
               these
               Gentlemen
               say
               ,
               I
               must
               acquiesce
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Pardon
               me
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               declare
               the
               Law
               ,
               but
               ask
               you
               whether
               you
               would
               have
               Counsel
               to
               argue
               that
               Point
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               say
               there
               is
               no
               Example
               of
               it
               ,
               I
               know
               there
               have
               been
               Impeachments
               ,
               but
               no
               Examples
               of
               Impeachments
               continued
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               in
               the
               next
               place
               ,
               for
               I
               shall
               propose
               your
               Objections
               to
               their
               Lordships
               by
               and
               by
               ,
               and
               desire
               their
               Judgment
               in
               them
               ;
               Do
               you
               desire
               to
               argue
               by
               your
               Counsel
               ,
               that
               every
               Overt
               Act
               ought
               to
               be
               proved
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               my
               Counsel
               may
               be
               heard
               to
               all
               the
               Points
               I
               mentioned
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               Counsel
               ready
               to
               speak
               to
               these
               Points
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Yes
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Are
               they
               prepared
               to
               speak
               to
               them
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               They
               are
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               If
               they
               be
               so
               ,
               what
               hurt
               will
               there
               be
               in
               hearing
               of
               them
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Whether
               you
               will
               hear
               an
               Argument
               from
               Counsel
               about
               the
               Law
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               please
               well
               to
               consider
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               VVinnington
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               in
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               do
               never
               suffer
               any
               Counsel
               to
               tell
               us
               what
               is
               the
               Course
               of
               our
               House
               and
               the
               Law
               of
               Parliaments
               ;
               if
               your
               Lordships
               think
               fit
               to
               allow
               it
               ,
               't
               is
               in
               your
               own
               power
               ,
               but
               we
               who
               are
               intrusted
               with
               the
               Management
               of
               this
               Cause
               by
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               have
               no
               direction
               to
               consent
               to
               such
               a
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               We
               will
               hear
               Counsel
               to
               save
               time
               upon
               that
               Point
               ,
               whether
               in
               proof
               of
               a
               Treason
               for
               killing
               the
               King
               ,
               every
               Overt
               Act
               ought
               to
               be
               proved
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               make
               a
               doubt
               of
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Fran.
               Winnington
               .
            
             
               And
               if
               the
               Prisoner
               desire
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               We
               shall
               not
               oppose
               it
               ,
               but
               I
               shall
               wonder
               if
               any
               Counsel
               do
               maintain
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Are
               your
               Counsel
               ready
               to
               speak
               to
               that
               Point
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Here
               they
               are
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             Mr.
             Wallop
             of
             the
             Middle-Temple
             ,
             Mr.
             Saunders
             of
             the
             same
             Society
             ,
             and
             Mr.
             Hunt
             of
             
             Gray's
             -
             Inn
             appeared
             by
             the
             Prisoner
             at
             the
             Bar
             as
             his
             Counsel
             .
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Wallop
               .
            
             
               May
               it
               please
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               we
               are
               here
               commanded
               by
               your
               Lordships
               to
               Attend
               ,
               that
               if
               any
               matter
               of
               Law
               do
               arise
               upon
               a
               Case
               proved
               ,
               agreed
               ,
               and
               judged
               by
               your
               Lordships
               debateable
               ,
               then
               in
               due
               time
               we
               are
               to
               conform
               our selves
               to
               your
               Lordships
               command
               ,
               and
               argue
               those
               Points
               for
               my
               Lord
               the
               Prisoner
               at
               the
               Bar.
               But
               if
               your
               Lordships
               do
               think
               that
               the
               Points
               urged
               by
               my
               Lord
               are
               not
               debateable
               in
               Law
               ,
               I
               have
               so
               high
               an
               Opinion
               of
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               ,
               and
               such
               a
               mean
               opinion
               of
               my
               own
               Talent
               ,
               that
               I
               shall
               not
               undertake
               to
               Argue
               Extempore
               in
               this
               great
               Assembly
               ,
               in
               a
               Cause
               of
               so
               high
               a
               Nature
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Look
               you
               ,
               Sir
               ,
               you
               are
               of
               my
               Lords
               Counsel
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Wallop
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               and
               by
               the
               Order
               of
               your
               Lordships
               do
               attend
               here
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               If
               you
               think
               it
               an
               arguable
               Point
               ,
               you
               will
               have
               the
               Judgment
               of
               my
               Lords
               afterwards
               .
               Will
               you
               argue
               it
               now
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVallop
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               always
               thought
               if
               a
               Point
               be
               stirred
               in
               any
               Court
               and
               thought
               disputable
               ,
               it
               should
               be
               stated
               and
               agreed
               before
               it
               be
               argued
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               are
               to
               argue
               for
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               to
               know
               the
               Judgment
               of
               the
               Court
               afterwards
               :
               would
               you
               know
               our
               Opinions
               before
               hand
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVallop
               .
            
             
               We
               would
               know
               what
               it
               is
               we
               are
               to
               argue
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Why
               ,
               if
               you
               are
               provided
               for
               it
               ,
               you
               are
               to
               maintain
               that
               by
               Law
               every
               Overt
               Act
               ought
               to
               be
               proved
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               if
               you
               are
               prepared
               speak
               to
               it
               and
               my
               Lords
               will
               hear
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVallop
               .
            
             
               It
               is
               true
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               there
               have
               been
               some
               publick
               Resolutions
               concerning
               that
               Point
               ,
               therefore
               I
               shall
               be
               the
               warier
               what
               I
               say
               in
               that
               ;
               But
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               is
               a
               matter
               that
               has
               been
               thought
               of
               great
               import
               one
               way
               or
               other
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               profess
               at
               this
               time
               I
               am
               not
               able
               to
               undertake
               a
               Solemn
               Argument
               upon
               that
               Point
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               so
               far
               from
               delaying
               this
               Cause
               ,
               that
               I
               desire
               it
               may
               be
               argued
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               you
               are
               not
               ready
               to
               speak
               to
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVallop
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               for
               my
               own
               part
               at
               present
               ,
               for
               it
               is
               impossible
               we
               should
               foresee
               what
               would
               be
               the
               Point
               ,
               and
               to
               apply
               our selves
               to
               study
               an
               unforeseen
               Case
               before
               it
               be
               agreed
               ,
               stated
               ,
               and
               judged
               worthy
               of
               Argument
               ,
               cannot
               be
               expected
               from
               us
               .
               I
               have
               always
               observed
               it
               in
               the
               King's-Bench
               .
               If
               the
               Prisoner
               urge
               any
               thing
               and
               the
               Court
               think
               it
               debateable
               ,
               they
               first
               agree
               and
               state
               the
               Case
               ,
               then
               Assign
               Counsel
               ,
               whom
               they
               do
               not
               urge
               to
               deliver
               an
               Opinion
               presently
               ,
               but
               give
               them
               time
               to
               prepare
               for
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               VVallop
               ,
               it
               is
               not
               believed
               that
               this
               Point
               is
               moved
               ,
               but
               by
               your
               Advice
               that
               are
               of
               my
               Lord's
               Council
               ,
               and
               you
               should
               be
               ready
               to
               maintain
               the
               Advice
               you
               give
               ,
               therefore
               if
               you
               are
               so
               ,
               speak
               .
               You
               have
               the
               Protection
               of
               the
               Court
               for
               the
               Counsel
               you
               give
               in
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               and
               whatever
               Advice
               you
               give
               you
               should
               maintain
               by
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               VVallop
               .
            
             
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               is
               a
               Point
               that
               has
               ,
               as
               I
               said
               before
               ,
               received
               some
               Settlement
               ,
               but
               whether
               ever
               in
               this
               Court
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               cannot
               tell
               .
               Therefore
               I
               did
               discharge
               my
               thoughts
               of
               providing
               any
               Argument
               till
               your
               Lordships
               should
               have
               determined
               whether
               you
               will
               take
               the
               Point
               upon
               the
               Resolutions
               in
               the
               Courts
               below
               to
               be
               finally
               settled
               and
               determined
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               .
            
             
               So
               then
               it
               is
               agreed
               to
               be
               settled
               in
               the
               ordinary
               Courts
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               desire
               also
               it
               may
               be
               argued
               ,
               whether
               words
               are
               an
               Overt
               Act.
               
            
          
           
             
             
               Sir
               Francis
               Winnington
               .
            
             
               It
               seems
               the
               Law
               is
               with
               us
               in
               case
               of
               a
               Commoner
               ,
               but
               whether
               it
               be
               so
               for
               a
               Lord
               is
               the
               Question
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ;
               How
               comes
               it
               to
               pass
               that
               your
               Lordship
               came
               prepared
               with
               Objections
               ,
               but
               not
               with
               Counsel
               ready
               to
               argue
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Mr.
               Wallop
               has
               given
               you
               an
               Answer
               ,
               I
               must
               stand
               by
               that
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               that
               we
               Adjourn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               This
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Lords
             returned
             to
             their
             House
             in
             their
             Order
             ,
             and
             the
             Committee
             of
             Commons
             staid
             in
             their
             Places
             to
             attend
             their
             Resolutions
             .
          
           
             In
             one
             hours
             time
             the
             Lords
             returned
             ,
             and
             my
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             being
             seated
             upon
             the
             Woolpack
             ,
             Silence
             was
             proclaimed
             .
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               My
               Lords
               ,
               since
               they
               have
               been
               withdrawn
               ,
               have
               considered
               of
               one
               Point
               ,
               of
               that
               point
               chiefly
               which
               your
               Lordship
               did
               move
               touching
               the
               necessity
               of
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               every
               Overt
               Act
               alledged
               as
               Evidence
               of
               High
               Treason
               ,
               that
               is
               the
               point
               you
               have
               desired
               Counsel
               to
               speak
               to
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               the
               point
               your
               Counsel
               desired
               to
               know
               whether
               it
               was
               a
               doubtful
               or
               debateable
               point
               before
               they
               would
               argue
               it
               ,
               and
               hereupon
               my
               Lords
               did
               withdraw
               to
               consider
               it
               .
               And
               my
               Lords
               have
               directed
               ,
               that
               all
               the
               Judges
               that
               assist
               them
               ,
               and
               are
               here
               in
               your
               Lordships
               presence
               and
               hearing
               ,
               should
               deliver
               their
               Opinions
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               doubtful
               and
               disputable
               or
               no.
               
            
          
           
             Then
             all
             the
             Judges
             consulted
             privately
             together
             ,
             and
             afterwards
             gave
             their
             Opinion
             Seriatim
             ,
             beginning
             with
             the
             Lord
             Cbief
             Justice
             North
             ,
             the
             Lord
             Chief
             Justice
             Scroggs
             being
             absent
             .
          
           
             
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               North.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               here
               deliver
               my
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               I
               am
               cleàr
               in
               it
               ,
               That
               if
               there
               be
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               or
               Facts
               which
               are
               Evidences
               of
               the
               same
               Treason
               ,
               if
               there
               be
               one
               Witness
               to
               prove
               one
               such
               Overt
               Act
               at
               one
               time
               ,
               and
               another
               Witness
               to
               prove
               another
               Overt
               Act
               at
               another
               time
               ,
               both
               the
               Acts
               being
               Evidences
               of
               the
               same
               Treason
               ,
               these
               are
               two
               sufficient
               Witnesses
               of
               that
               Treason
               ,
               
               and
               will
               maintain
               an
               Indictment
               or
               an
               Impeachment
               of
               Treason
               .
               I
               never
               knew
               any
               doubt
               made
               of
               it
               in
               any
               Inferiour
               Court
               of
               Justice
               ,
               and
               I
               have
               known
               it
               often
               resolved
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Chief
               Baron
               Montague
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               where
               ever
               Treason
               is
               to
               be
               proved
               to
               every
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               as
               I
               conceive
               ,
               are
               not
               required
               .
               If
               so
               be
               there
               are
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               conducing
               to
               a
               proof
               of
               the
               same
               Treason
               ,
               I
               think
               they
               are
               Witnesses
               in
               the
               Judgment
               of
               the
               Law
               such
               as
               the
               Statute
               requires
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Justice
               Windham
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               with
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justice
               North
               ,
               and
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Baron
               ,
               That
               if
               there
               be
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               done
               at
               several
               times
               tending
               to
               the
               same
               Treason
               ,
               these
               several
               Acts
               being
               severally
               proved
               by
               several
               credible
               Witnesses
               ,
               though
               but
               by
               one
               Witness
               at
               each
               time
               to
               each
               Act
               ,
               the
               said
               several
               Acts
               being
               Evidences
               of
               the
               same
               Treason
               ;
               these
               are
               sufficient
               Witnesses
               of
               that
               Treason
               so
               proved
               ,
               and
               will
               maintain
               an
               Indictment
               or
               (
               as
               I
               conceive
               )
               an
               Impeachment
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Justice
               Jones
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               several
               Witnesses
               speak
               to
               the
               same
               kind
               of
               Treason
               ,
               although
               they
               speak
               to
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               and
               give
               Evidence
               of
               several
               times
               ,
               the
               one
               of
               them
               speaking
               to
               one
               time
               and
               the
               other
               to
               another
               time
               ,
               yet
               keeping
               still
               to
               the
               same
               kind
               of
               Treason
               ,
               they
               are
               such
               two
               Witnesses
               as
               are
               required
               by
               the
               Statute
               of
               Edward
               the
               6
               th
               ,
               and
               this
               I
               do
               take
               to
               be
               the
               constant
               Opinion
               of
               the
               Courts
               below
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Justice
               Dolben
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               I
               know
               it
               hath
               been
               many
               times
               so
               resolved
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               present
               when
               Sentence
               hath
               passed
               upon
               Persons
               by
               whom
               the
               same
               Case
               hath
               been
               urged
               ,
               and
               it
               hath
               been
               so
               resolved
               .
               And
               it
               hath
               been
               moved
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               ,
               and
               that
               was
               the
               constant
               Opinion
               of
               the
               Judges
               there
               ;
               particularly
               in
               the
               Case
               of
               Sir
               
                 Henry
                 Vane
              
               .
               It
               was
               upon
               solemn
               Debate
               resolved
               ,
               and
               divers
               times
               it
               hath
               been
               held
               ,
               that
               the
               same
               Treason
               may
               be
               proved
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               ,
               though
               one
               speak
               of
               Words
               or
               Actions
               that
               were
               spoken
               or
               done
               at
               one
               time
               and
               in
               one
               place
               ,
               and
               another
               speak
               of
               Words
               or
               Actions
               at
               another
               time
               and
               in
               another
               place
               ,
               those
               are
               two
               good
               Witnesses
               in
               Treason
               within
               the
               intent
               of
               the
               Law
               ,
               and
               if
               the
               Law
               were
               otherwise
               't
               were
               scarce
               possible
               to
               convict
               any
               man
               of
               Treason
               ,
               and
               therefore
               I
               take
               it
               to
               be
               very
               clear
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Justice
               Raymond
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               ,
               That
               where
               several
               Cirstances
               are
               brought
               to
               prove
               the
               same
               Treason
               ,
               one
               Witness
               to
               each
               of
               the
               several
               
               Circumstances
               is
               sufficient
               ,
               and
               this
               ,
               I
               conceive
               ,
               hath
               been
               always
               the
               Opinion
               of
               the
               Judges
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Baron
               Atkins
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               ,
               That
               there
               must
               be
               two
               Witnesses
               in
               the
               Case
               of
               Treason
               is
               a
               matter
               without
               Question
               ,
               but
               there
               are
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               that
               may
               contribute
               to
               the
               effecting
               of
               that
               Treason
               .
               If
               a
               man
               designs
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               buyes
               Powder
               at
               one
               place
               at
               one
               time
               ,
               and
               a
               Pistol
               at
               another
               place
               at
               another
               time
               ,
               and
               promises
               a
               Reward
               to
               one
               to
               assist
               him
               to
               do
               the
               thing
               at
               a
               third
               place
               and
               a
               third
               time
               ;
               these
               are
               several
               Overt
               Acts
               ,
               but
               if
               the
               Law
               requires
               that
               each
               be
               proved
               by
               two
               Witnesses
               I
               do
               not
               well
               see
               how
               any
               man
               can
               be
               Convicted
               of
               Treason
               .
               In
               the
               Case
               of
               Sir
               
                 Henry
                 Vane
              
               and
               others
               ,
               this
               very
               Question
               was
               started
               but
               was
               not
               thought
               worthy
               of
               Debate
               ,
               if
               it
               should
               be
               otherwise
               it
               would
               touch
               the
               Judgments
               which
               have
               been
               given
               upon
               this
               kind
               of
               Proof
               ,
               and
               what
               would
               the
               Consequence
               of
               that
               be
               ,
               but
               that
               those
               persons
               who
               were
               Executed
               upon
               those
               Judgments
               have
               suffered
               illegally
               ;
               And
               therefore
               I
               am
               of
               Opinion
               that
               it
               is
               not
               requisite
               there
               should
               be
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               every
               Overt
               Act.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Baron
               Gregory
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               ,
               it
               is
               Treason
               to
               Conspire
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ;
               Now
               each
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               is
               a
               Witness
               to
               prove
               that
               Treason
               ,
               the
               one
               says
               he
               offered
               him
               such
               a
               Reward
               ,
               in
               such
               a
               place
               ,
               that
               is
               one
               Witness
               to
               prove
               that
               he
               Conspired
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               another
               says
               ,
               that
               he
               offered
               him
               such
               a
               Reward
               in
               another
               place
               ,
               that
               is
               another
               Witness
               that
               he
               Conspired
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King.
               For
               the
               Party
               is
               indicted
               upon
               one
               particular
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               but
               he
               is
               indicted
               for
               Treason
               in
               Conspiring
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               each
               of
               th●
               Witnesses
               being
               to
               prove
               that
               ,
               though
               they
               speak
               to
               several
               Acts
               they
               are
               good
               Witnesses
               according
               to
               the
               Law.
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Baron
               Weston
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               with
               my
               Reverend
               Brethren
               who
               have
               spoke
               before
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Justice
               Charlton
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               of
               the
               same
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               truly
               it
               would
               be
               the
               easiest
               matter
               for
               a
               man
               to
               Commit
               Treason
               ,
               and
               escape
               without
               questioning
               ,
               if
               it
               should
               be
               otherwise
               .
               But
               this
               is
               the
               first
               time
               that
               I
               have
               heard
               it
               hath
               been
               made
               a
               Question
               ,
               that
               to
               the
               same
               Treason
               there
               must
               be
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               every
               Overt
               Act.
               It
               hath
               been
               adjudged
               always
               according
               to
               the
               Law
               ,
               that
               to
               prove
               Treason
               there
               must
               be
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               but
               to
               any
               Overt
               Act
               there
               needs
               but
               on●
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               By
               the
               uniform
               Opinion
               of
               all
               my
               Lords
               the
               Judges
               ,
               there
               is
               no
               colour
               to
               doubt
               the
               Law
               in
               that
               point
               which
               you
               desire
               to
               argue
               ;
               So
               that
               as
               to
               that
               point
               you
               must
               rest
               satisfied
               ,
               you
               are
               not
               to
               have
               Counsel
               to
               speak
               to
               it
               .
               For
               the
               rest
               I
               have
               no
               Commission
               yet
               from
               my
               Lords
               to
               say
               any
               thing
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Will
               your
               Lordships
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               one
               thing
               to
               what
               I
               have
               heard
               ,
               I
               would
               answer
               ,
               if
               I
               might
               ,
               only
               to
               one
               Judge
               ,
               I
               think
               they
               call
               him
               Judge
               Atkins
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Your
               Lordship
               may
               say
               what
               you
               please
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hear
               a
               strange
               Position
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               the
               like
               before
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               what
               he
               said
               ,
               if
               I
               am
               in
               the
               wrong
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               and
               his
               too
               .
               He
               told
               your
               Lordships
               the
               Reason
               why
               the
               Law
               should
               be
               so
               ,
               was
               because
               else
               a
               great
               many
               of
               those
               persons
               that
               have
               already
               been
               Executed
               must
               have
               been
               acknowledged
               unjustly
               cut
               off
               and
               put
               to
               Death
               ,
               that
               is
               an
               Argument
               I
               hope
               will
               not
               weigh
               with
               your
               Lordships
               or
               any
               body
               ,
               for
               't
               is
               better
               that
               a
               Thousand
               persons
               that
               are
               Guilty
               should
               escape
               ,
               than
               that
               one
               Innocent
               person
               should
               die
               ,
               much
               more
               then
               that
               it
               should
               not
               be
               declared
               ,
               that
               such
               a
               Judgment
               was
               not
               well
               given
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Look
               you
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               where
               many
               Reasons
               are
               given
               't
               is
               easie
               to
               make
               a
               Reply
               to
               one
               of
               the
               least
               among
               many
               ,
               that
               was
               one
               Reason
               given
               ,
               but
               the
               true
               Reason
               is
               this
               ,
               if
               the
               Law
               were
               otherwise
               there
               would
               be
               great
               safety
               in
               Conspiring
               the
               Death
               of
               the
               King.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               say
               nothing
               further
               as
               to
               the
               rest
               ,
               but
               this
               stuck
               with
               me
               .
               I
               am
               sorry
               to
               hear
               a
               Judge
               should
               say
               any
               such
               thing
               ,
               and
               though
               I
               am
               in
               such
               a
               weak
               and
               disturbed
               Condition
               ,
               I
               assure
               your
               Lordships
               my
               Blood
               rises
               at
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               that
               we
               should
               Adjourn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               this
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             The
             Lords
             withdrew
             in
             their
             Order
             ,
             and
             the
             Committee
             of
             Commons
             went
             back
             to
             their
             House
             .
          
           
             Mr.
             Speaker
             resumed
             the
             Chair
             .
          
           
             A
             Message
             was
             sent
             from
             the
             Lords
             by
             Sir
             
               Timothy
               Baldwyn
            
             and
             Sir
             
               Samuel
               Clarke
            
             .
          
           
             
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               ,
            
             
               The
               Lords
               have
               sent
               us
               to
               acquaint
               this
               House
               ,
               That
               they
               have
               ordered
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               to
               be
               brought
               again
               to
               the
               Bar
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               ,
               on
               Munday
               morning
               next
               at
               Ten
               of
               the
               Clock
               .
            
             
               After
               which
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               Adjourned
               to
               Eight
               of
               the
               Clock
               on
               Munday
               morning
               .
            
          
        
         
           
             The
             Sixth
             Day
             .
          
           
             
               Munday
               ,
               December
            
             6.
             1680.
             
          
           
             ABout
             the
             hour
             of
             Eleven
             in
             the
             morning
             ,
             the
             Lords
             being
             Adjourned
             into
             Westminster-Hall
             going
             thither
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             into
             the
             Court
             there
             Erected
             ;
             and
             Mr.
             Speaker
             having
             left
             the
             Chair
             ,
             the
             Committee
             of
             Commons
             were
             Seated
             as
             before
             .
          
           
             The
             Court
             being
             Sate
             ,
             Proclamation
             for
             Silence
             was
             made
             ,
             and
             the
             Lieutenant
             Commanded
             to
             bring
             his
             Prisoner
             to
             the
             Bar
             ,
             which
             being
             done
             ,
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             began
             .
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Read
               my
               Lord
               
               Stafford's
               Petition
               .
            
          
           
             
               
                 
                   
                     To
                     the
                     Right
                     Honourable
                     the
                     Lords
                     in
                     Parliament
                     Assembled
                     ,
                     The
                     humble
                     Petition
                     of
                     William
                     Viscount
                     of
                     Stafford
                     .
                  
                   
                     Humbly
                     shewing
                     unto
                     your
                     Lordships
                     ,
                     that
                     he
                     hath
                     some
                     things
                     to
                     offer
                     unto
                     your
                     Lordships
                     in
                     order
                     to
                     clear
                     himself
                     ,
                     which
                     he
                     hopeth
                     to
                     do
                     .
                  
                   
                     Your
                     Petitioner
                     doth
                     therefore
                     with
                     all
                     humility
                     ,
                     most
                     humbly
                     beseech
                     your
                     Lordships
                     to
                     give
                     him
                     leave
                     to
                     offer
                     some
                     things
                     unto
                     your
                     Lordships
                     Consideration
                     ,
                     And
                     your
                     Petitioner
                     shall
                     ever
                     pray
                     ,
                     &c.
                     
                  
                   
                     
                       Stafford
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               my
               Lords
               have
               been
               willing
               upon
               your
               Petition
               to
               come
               and
               hear
               what
               that
               is
               that
               your
               Lordship
               hath
               to
               offer
               :
               And
               they
               would
               know
               whether
               it
               be
               matter
               of
               Fact
               or
               matter
               of
               Law.
               For
               your
               Lordship
               must
               know
               ,
               that
               as
               to
               Witnesses
               the
               Process
               is
               closed
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               do
               not
               pretend
               any
               more
               Witnesses
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               my
               Lord
               what
               is
               it
               that
               you
               would
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               did
               Yesterday
               receive
               an
               Order
               from
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               upon
               that
               and
               some
               other
               things
               that
               I
               have
               to
               trouble
               your
               Lordships
               with
               ,
               I
               did
               petition
               for
               this
               favour
               ,
               which
               I
               humbly
               thank
               your
               Lordships
               for
               granting
               .
               If
               I
               be
               impertinent
               I
               shall
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               ,
               and
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               consider
               my
               Weakness
               at
               all
               times
               ,
               especially
               in
               this
               condition
               I
               am
               now
               in
               ,
               but
               I
               hope
               by
               your
               Lordships
               favour
               to
               be
               in
               an
               happier
               one
               quickly
               .
               For
               the
               matters
               of
               proof
               I
               shall
               offer
               not
               a
               tittle
               ,
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               Order
               which
               I
               received
               does
               say
               ,
               That
               the
               Lords
               Assembled
               in
               Parliament
               have
               ordered
               ,
               that
               my
               Counsel
               shall
               not
               be
               heard
               touching
               the
               continuance
               of
               Impeachments
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               ;
               but
               I
               hope
               my
               Lords
               ,
               you
               will
               please
               without
               Offence
               ,
               to
               let
               me
               offer
               to
               your
               Lordships
               my
               own
               Conceptions
               about
               it
               ,
               which
               I
               shall
               do
               as
               briefly
               as
               I
               can
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               not
               conceive
               by
               this
               Order
               ,
               That
               your
               Lordships
               say
               it
               does
               or
               it
               does
               not
               continue
               :
               You
               have
               given
               no
               Judgment
               as
               I
               know
               of
               in
               it
               ,
               when
               you
               have
               I
               shall
               acquiesce
               ,
               but
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               resolve
               that
               it
               does
               not
               .
               And
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               my
               reasons
               for
               it
               are
               two
               ;
               the
               first
               is
               ,
               because
               one
               of
               the
               Managers
               for
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               as
               I
               take
               it
               Sir
               
                 William
                 Jones
              
               said
               these
               words
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               may
               remember
               them
               ,
               That
               if
               there
               were
               no
               such
               President
               your
               Lordships
               would
               make
               a
               President
               ,
               whether
               you
               will
               or
               no
               that
               I
               must
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               but
               then
               there
               is
               none
               yet
               .
               The
               next
               thing
               is
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               this
               ,
               whether
               an
               Impeachment
               be
               to
               be
               prosecuted
               in
               Parliament
               without
               an
               Indictment
               :
               this
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               humbly
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               are
               resolved
               ,
               it
               ought
               not
               :
               For
               I
               see
               not
               how
               truely
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               it
               can
               be
               ,
               by
               the
               little
               reading
               which
               I
               have
               had
               in
               the
               Law
               ,
               I
               never
               found
               any
               man
               prosecuted
               in
               a
               Legal
               way
               but
               by
               an
               Indictment
               ,
               I
               may
               be
               mistaken
               ,
               and
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               for
               troubling
               you
               with
               my
               mistakes
               ,
               but
               I
               never
               read
               of
               any
               that
               were
               prosecuted
               upon
               an
               Impeachment
               ;
               so
               then
               the
               Legal
               usual
               word
               being
               Indictment
               ,
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               alter
               the
               form
               ,
               for
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               keep
               that
               great
               Maxim
               of
               your
               Noble
               Ancestors
               ,
               
                 Nolumus
                 Leges
                 Angliae
                 mutare
              
               ,
               and
               whether
               this
               be
               a
               Change
               of
               the
               Law
               or
               no
               ,
               I
               submit
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
             
               A
               third
               thing
               is
               this
               ,
               Your
               Lordships
               do
               not
               think
               fit
               that
               my
               Counsel
               shall
               plead
               to
               that
               Point
               ,
               whether
               Words
               do
               amount
               to
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               for
               hearing
               my
               Counsel
               to
               that
               likewise
               I
               do
               not
               pretend
               ,
               but
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               this
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               that
               Words
               did
               amount
               to
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               judge
               otherwise
               ,
               I
               submit
               ,
               but
               till
               then
               I
               hope
               it
               shall
               not
               conclude
               me
               .
            
             
               There
               were
               some
               other
               Points
               which
               I
               did
               offer
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               I
               humbly
               beseech
               you
               to
               know
               ,
               whether
               my
               Counsel
               shall
               be
               heard
               to
               them
               ;
               't
               is
               true
               ,
               one
               of
               them
               ,
               which
               was
               ,
               whether
               two
               Witnesses
               in
               several
               places
               did
               amount
               to
               a
               legal
               Testimony
               or
               no
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               did
               not
               declare
               one
               way
               or
               another
               :
               If
               you
               say
               you
               acquiesce
               in
               the
               Opinion
               of
               the
               Judges
               ,
               I
               must
               submit
               ,
               but
               till
               Judgment
               is
               given
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               tell
               you
               my
               weak
               thoughts
               about
               it
               .
               I
               did
               not
               hear
               what
               the
               Judges
               said
               all
               of
               them
               ,
               but
               as
               I
               apprehend
               they
               were
               all
               of
               one
               Opinion
               ;
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               one
               of
               them
               that
               spoke
               last
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               was
               Judge
               Atkins
               ,
               did
               say
               it
               did
               amount
               to
               a
               legal
               Testimony
               ,
               because
               else
               those
               Juries
               that
               have
               found
               some
               Guilty
               upon
               the
               same
               sort
               of
               Evidence
               should
               be
               perjured
               ;
               but
               if
               this
               were
               not
               so
               ,
               then
               upon
               the
               same
               grounds
               ,
               under
               your
               Lordships
               favour
               ,
               those
               Juries
               that
               acquitted
               some
               upon
               such
               Testimony
               were
               perjured
               ,
               but
               I
               must
               believe
               it
               to
               be
               otherwise
               till
               your
               Lordships
               have
               declared
               it
               as
               your
               Opinion
               ,
               for
               that
               reason
               will
               not
               hold
               ,
               for
               the
               same
               reason
               will
               be
               for
               the
               perjuring
               the
               one
               ,
               as
               for
               the
               perjuring
               the
               other
               .
               And
               the
               same
               Juries
               for
               the
               most
               part
               tryed
               those
               that
               were
               found
               guilty
               and
               those
               that
               were
               acquitted
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               this
               all
               your
               Lordship
               will
               please
               to
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               you
               would
               give
               me
               leave
               I
               would
               trouble
               you
               a
               little
               farther
               ,
               if
               it
               were
               an
               Offence
               I
               would
               not
               say
               a
               word
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               conceive
               I
               am
               not
               concerned
               in
               the
               general
               Plot
               of
               the
               Papists
               ;
               for
               I
               am
               not
               proved
               to
               be
               so
               ,
               and
               whatsoever
               I
               may
               be
               in
               my self
               ,
               as
               I
               conceive
               ,
               or
               whatsoever
               there
               is
               of
               hearsay
               ,
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               go
               upon
               that
               ,
               but
               upon
               what
               is
               proved
               
                 Secundum
                 allegata
                 &
                 probata
              
               ,
               and
               that
               common
               Fame
               will
               condemn
               no
               man
               ,
               if
               it
               do
               ,
               then
               no
               man
               is
               safe
               ,
               but
               I
               must
               say
               there
               is
               not
               one
               word
               of
               proof
               offered
               that
               I
               am
               a
               Papist
               .
            
             
               I
               hope
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               cleared
               my self
               to
               your
               Lordships
               and
               made
               my
               Innocency
               appear
               ,
               by
               making
               appear
               the
               perjury
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               ,
               and
               the
               falshood
               of
               those
               things
               they
               said
               against
               me
               .
               Against
               
                 Dugdale
                 I
              
               have
               proved
               it
               by
               two
               of
               his
               own
               Witnesses
               ,
               the
               one
               was
               Eld
               the
               woman
               that
               swore
               for
               him
               ,
               That
               he
               took
               up
               a
               Glass
               of
               Cyder
               and
               wished
               that
               it
               might
               be
               his
               Poyson
               if
               he
               knew
               any
               thing
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               the
               other
               was
               Whitby
               ,
               who
               says
               ,
               he
               had
               given
               my
               Lord
               
               Aston's
               Father
               warning
               long
               ago
               what
               a
               Knave
               he
               was
               .
               So
               't
               is
               clear
               ,
               for
               Dr.
               
                 Oats
                 I
              
               hope
               from
               his
               Contradictions
               against
               himself
               as
               well
               as
               Dugdale
               ,
               who
               does
               contradict
               himself
               ,
               at
               one
               time
               August
               ,
               at
               another
               time
               the
               latter
               end
               of
               August
               or
               the
               beginning
               of
               September
               :
               And
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               give
               no
               credit
               to
               
               Oats's
               Testimony
               ,
               for
               he
               said
               before
               your
               Lordships
               he
               had
               declared
               all
               he
               knew
               ,
               (
               't
               is
               true
               I
               was
               then
               accused
               ,
               but
               not
               for
               having
               a
               
               Commission
               as
               he
               now
               swears
               )
               and
               afterwards
               he
               accused
               the
               Queen
               ,
               so
               here
               is
               Oats
               against
               Oats
               and
               Dugdale
               against
               Dugdale
               ;
               and
               for
               Turbervill
               I
               have
               proved
               by
               his
               Affidavit
               ,
               first
               he
               swears
               one
               thing
               and
               then
               another
               ,
               and
               the
               truth
               of
               it
               is
               ,
               his
               Brother
               proved
               him
               false
               in
               his
               last
               Oath
               ,
               that
               it
               was
               (
               7●
               )
               and
               not
               (
               72.
               )
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               'T
               is
               not
               my
               part
               to
               make
               any
               Question
               ,
               nor
               do
               I
               ,
               whether
               a
               Plot
               or
               no
               Plot
               ;
               for
               I
               am
               not
               concerned
               in
               it
               :
               If
               what
               I
               shall
               say
               now
               be
               impertinent
               ,
               I
               humbly
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               been
               by
               the
               most
               of
               my
               Friends
               ,
               at
               least
               every
               one
               that
               came
               to
               me
               ,
               particularly
               by
               my
               .
               Wife
               and
               Daughter
               that
               is
               near
               me
               ,
               persuaded
               to
               tell
               all
               that
               I
               knew
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               here
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               Almighty
               God
               declare
               what
               I
               know
               to
               be
               true
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               ▪
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               says
               my
               Lord
               ?
               Speak
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               believe
               since
               the
               Reformation
               from
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               to
               (
               what
               it
               is
               now
               Established
               )
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               ,
               those
               of
               that
               Religion
               have
               had
               several
               wicked
               and
               ill
               Designs
               and
               Plots
               :
               I
               do
               believe
               they
               had
               a
               Design
               in
               Queen
               
               Elizabeth's
               time
               ,
               
               Babbington's
               Plot
               ,
               (
               that
               is
               a
               long
               time
               ago
               )
               how
               far
               it
               was
               to
               take
               away
               the
               Queens
               Life
               I
               can't
               tell
               ,
               but
               a
               Plot
               it
               was
               :
               I
               do
               believe
               there
               was
               another
               in
               her
               time
               ,
               called
               ,
               Earl
               of
               
               Westmorland's
               Plot
               ,
               wherein
               there
               was
               a
               Rebe●●ion
               in
               the
               North
               ,
               for
               which
               some
               fled
               and
               some
               were
               Executed
               ,
               that
               was
               a
               very
               ill
               design
               :
               As
               for
               those
               poysonings
               of
               her
               Saddle
               and
               the
               like
               ,
               I
               take
               them
               to
               be
               but
               stories
               .
            
             
               In
               King
               
               James's
               time
               ,
               in
               the
               first
               year
               of
               his
               Reign
               ,
               there
               was
               a
               wicked
               Plot
               composed
               by
               Actors
               ,
               some
               of
               one
               Religion
               ,
               some
               of
               another
               ,
               there
               was
               my
               Lord
               Grey
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Cobham
               ,
               my
               Lord
               Brooke
               ,
               and
               others
               such
               ,
               they
               were
               condemned
               all
               of
               them
               ,
               some
               fled
               ,
               as
               Markham
               and
               Bainham
               ,
               those
               Lords
               and
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Rawleigh
              
               were
               Reprived
               and
               kept
               long
               in
               the
               Tower.
               But
               Sir
               
                 Walter
                 Rawleigh
              
               was
               afterwards
               upon
               that
               same
               Judgment
               Beheaded
               ,
               and
               the
               Lords
               dyed
               in
               the
               Tower.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Next
               to
               that
               was
               the
               Execrable
               Treason
               that
               I
               spoke
               of
               at
               ▪
               first
               ,
               the
               Gun-powder-Treason
               :
               And
               I
               protest
               before
               Almighty
               God
               ,
               I
               did
               from
               my
               Infancy
               detest
               and
               abhor
               those
               men
               that
               were
               engaged
               in
               it
               ,
               and
               I
               do
               think
               ,
               and
               always
               did
               think
               ,
               the
               Wit
               of
               Man
               nor
               the
               Devils
               Malice
               ,
               can't
               invent
               an
               Excuse
               for
               it
               :
               For
               the
               men
               concerned
               they
               all
               acknowledged
               it
               ,
               confessed
               it
               ▪
               and
               beg'd
               pardon
               of
               the
               King
               and
               God
               ,
               and
               all
               good
               men
               for
               it
               ,
               that
               is
               all
               I
               shall
               say
               to
               that
               now
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Since
               his
               Majesties
               happy
               Restauration
               I
               do
               conceive
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               I
               may
               safely
               say
               it
               ,
               (
               for
               you
               all
               know
               it
               ,
               he
               was
               gracious
               and
               good
               to
               all
               Dissentersd
               particularly
               to
               them
               of
               the
               Romish
               Church
               ,
               they
               had
               Connivance
               and
               Indulgence
               in
               their
               private
               Houses
               ,
               and
               I
               declare
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               did
               then
               say
               to
               some
               that
               were
               too
               open
               in
               their
               Worship
               that
               they
               did
               play
               foul
               in
               taking
               more
               Liberty
               upon
               them
               than
               was
               fitting
               for
               them
               too
               ,
               and
               that
               brought
               the
               misfortune
               upon
               me
               which
               I
               will
               not
               name
               .
            
             
             
               My
               Lord●
               ,
               it
               was
               not
               long
               ago
               that
               your
               Lordships
               at
               your
               own
               Bar
               did
               allow
               all
               the
               Dissenters
               from
               the
               Church
               of
               England
               to
               give
               some
               Reasons
               to
               your
               Lordships
               why
               those
               Laws
               that
               were
               against
               them
               should
               be
               repealed
               ,
               as
               well
               Protestant
               Dissenters
               as
               those
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               ,
               and
               why
               they
               should
               have
               some
               kind
               of
               Toleration
               ;
               among
               whom
               you
               did
               permit
               those
               of
               the
               
                 Romish
                 Religion
              
               to
               appear
               too
               ,
               I
               forget
               their
               Names
               .
               And
               I
               remember
               particularly
               one
               of
               the
               forts
               of
               them
               ,
               an
               Anabaptist
               I
               think
               ,
               did
               urge
               for
               a
               Reason
               ,
               that
               which
               is
               a
               great
               truth
               ,
               that
               they
               held
               Rebellion
               to
               be
               the
               Sin
               of
               Whitchcrast
               ,
               I
               believe
               it
               is
               as
               bad
               as
               any
               Sin
               can
               be
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               that
               came
               to
               nothing
               at
               that
               time
               ,
               but
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               believe
               that
               after
               that
               all
               of
               all
               Religions
               had
               Meetings
               among
               themselves
               to
               endeavour
               to
               get
               that
               Toleration
               which
               they
               proposed
               humbly
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               there
               I
               will
               never
               deny
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               that
               my
               Opinion
               was
               ,
               and
               is
               ,
               that
               this
               Kingdom
               can
               never
               be
               happy
               till
               an
               Act
               of
               Parliament
               pass
               to
               this
               Effect
               ;
               it
               was
               my
               Opinion
               then
               ,
               and
               I
               did
               endeavour
               it
               all
               I
               could
               that
               the
               Dissenting
               Protestants
               might
               have
               a
               Comprehension
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               a
               Toleration
               ;
               I
               acknowledge
               it
               to
               be
               my
               Intention
               ,
               and
               I
               think
               it
               was
               no
               ill
               one
               ;
               for
               if
               that
               be
               a
               true
               Copy
               of
               the
               Commons
               Votes
               which
               is
               in
               Print
               ,
               there
               is
               some
               such
               thing
               designing
               there
               as
               a
               Comprehension
               ;
               and
               I
               was
               of
               Opinion
               that
               it
               were
               sufficient
               that
               such
               as
               were
               of
               the
               Church
               of
               Rome
               might
               by
               Act
               of
               Parliament
               serve
               God
               in
               their
               own
               Houses
               ,
               and
               privately
               in
               their
               own
               Way
               ,
               not
               in
               publick
               ,
               and
               that
               for
               it
               they
               should
               pay
               something
               to
               the
               King
               out
               of
               their
               Estates
               ,
               but
               truly
               not
               much
               ;
               That
               they
               should
               be
               severely
               punished
               if
               they
               or
               any
               of
               them
               did
               endeavour
               to
               persuade
               any
               Subject
               to
               their
               Opinion
               ,
               or
               did
               come
               to
               Court
               ,
               or
               enjoy
               any
               Office
               whatsoever
               ,
               though
               it
               were
               but
               that
               of
               a
               Scavenger
               ,
               but
               that
               they
               should
               pay
               their
               proportion
               to
               all
               chargeable
               Offices
               ;
               That
               I
               profess
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               was
               my
               Opinion
               ,
               and
               I
               confess
               to
               your
               Lordships
               't
               is
               so
               still
               .
               I
               was
               in
               some
               hopes
               that
               it
               would
               have
               been
               done
               in
               that
               Sessions
               ,
               because
               I
               was
               afraid
               it
               was
               unlikely
               to
               be
               done
               at
               any
               time
               else
               .
               I
               confess
               to
               your
               Lordships
               I
               was
               heartily
               and
               cordially
               against
               the
               Test
               ,
               because
               it
               hindred
               those
               just
               and
               honest
               things
               that
               were
               for
               the
               Good
               of
               the
               Kingdom
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               there
               was
               the
               first
               or
               or
               the
               second
               Day
               brought
               into
               your
               Lordships
               House
               ,
               the
               Record
               of
               Mr.
               
               Coleman's
               Tryal
               ,
               and
               for
               the
               Letters
               in
               it
               ,
               I
               do
               my
               Lords
               ,
               declare
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               never
               read
               of
               one
               of
               them
               before
               ,
               but
               I
               have
               read
               them
               since
               they
               have
               been
               in
               Print
               ;
               And
               when
               I
               read
               them
               first
               cursorily
               over
               ,
               my
               Opinion
               was
               ,
               and
               is
               ,
               That
               
               Coleman's
               endavouring
               by
               Money
               out
               of
               France
               ,
               and
               keeping
               off
               the
               Parliament
               to
               get
               a
               Toleration
               ,
               was
               that
               which
               he
               could
               not
               justifie
               by
               Law
               ,
               how
               fat
               it
               was
               Criminal
               ,
               that
               I
               do
               not
               know
               ,
               I
               am
               not
               so
               skilled
               in
               the
               Law
               ,
               I
               think
               it
               was
               not
               justifiable
               ,
               but
               he
               hath
               paid
               for
               it
               severely
               since
               .
            
             
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               declare
               that
               ever
               since
               I
               had
               the
               Honour
               to
               fit
               among
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               which
               is
               now
               40
               Years
               (
               for
               in
               the
               Year
               1640.
               
               I
               was
               by
               His
               Majesties
               favour
               called
               up
               a
               Peer
               )
               I
               have
               valued
               my self
               upon
               the
               Honour
               of
               sitting
               with
               you
               ;
               and
               I
               do
               declare
               when
               I
               have
               sat
               in
               this
               House
               ,
               when
               your
               Lordships
               have
               desired
               the
               King
               when
               it
               was
               hot
               weather
               and
               unseasonable
               ,
               to
               put
               off
               the
               Sitting
               of
               the
               Parliament
               ,
               I
               was
               never
               glad
               of
               it
               ,
               but
               sorry
               when
               they
               were
               prorogued
               but
               for
               a
               short
               time
               .
               This
               I
               profess
               is
               true
               ,
               and
               I
               hope
               I
               am
               no
               Criminal
               in
               it
               ;
               for
               I
               do
               value
               the
               Parliaments
               Sitting
               to
               be
               the
               only
               means
               to
               keep
               this
               Kingdom
               quiet
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               'T
               is
               very
               true
               by
               
               Coleman's
               Letters
               ,
               and
               what
               I
               have
               seen
               in
               print
               since
               ,
               I
               do
               believe
               there
               have
               been
               some
               Consultations
               for
               a
               Toleration
               ;
               and
               if
               I
               had
               known
               as
               much
               then
               as
               I
               have
               since
               I
               have
               been
               in
               the
               Tower
               ,
               I
               had
               perhaps
               prevented
               many
               things
               ;
               for
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hold
               England
               to
               be
               a
               great
               and
               an
               happy
               Body
               ;
               but
               it
               is
               as
               other
               great
               Bodies
               are
               ,
               it
               may
               be
               now
               ,
               as
               you
               know
               before
               it
               was
               ,
               over-grown
               or
               sick
               ;
               it
               was
               then
               ,
               and
               I
               pray
               God
               it
               be
               not
               now
               ,
               but
               I
               hold
               nothing
               can
               cure
               it
               but
               that
               old
               English
               Physician
               ,
               the
               King
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               and
               the
               Commons
               in
               Parliament
               assembled
               .
               But
               if
               I
               had
               known
               any
               such
               Design
               ,
               as
               
               Coleman's
               Letters
               do
               hint
               ,
               I
               would
               not
               have
               continued
               in
               England
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               For
               that
               damnable
               Opinion
               of
               King-killing
               ,
               if
               I
               were
               of
               any
               Church
               whatsoever
               ,
               and
               found
               that
               to
               be
               its
               Principle
               ,
               I
               would
               leave
               it
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               this
               is
               as
               true
               as
               I
               can
               speak
               any
               thing
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               I
               beg
               your
               Lordships
               pardon
               for
               troubling
               you
               with
               my
               impertinencies
               ,
               and
               hope
               you
               pardon
               it
               to
               my
               weakness
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               profess
               before
               Almighty
               God
               ,
               and
               before
               your
               Lordships
               my
               Judges
               ,
               I
               know
               no
               one
               tittle
               nor
               point
               of
               the
               Plot
               ;
               and
               if
               I
               did
               I
               hold
               my self
               bound
               to
               declare
               it
               .
               For
               the
               present
               I
               shall
               say
               little
               more
               ,
               unless
               the
               Managers
               give
               me
               occasion
               ;
               if
               they
               will
               reply
               ,
               and
               make
               any
               Objections
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               answer
               them
               .
               I
               know
               the
               great
               disadvantages
               I
               am
               under
               ,
               when
               these
               Gentlemen
               ,
               who
               are
               great
               Scholars
               and
               Learned
               Men
               ,
               reply
               upon
               me
               ,
               who
               have
               those
               great
               helps
               of
               Memory
               ,
               Parts
               ,
               and
               Understanding
               in
               the
               Law
               ,
               all
               which
               I
               want
               .
               And
               therefore
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               dot
               conclude
               me
               upon
               what
               they
               or
               I
               have
               said
               ,
               but
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               debate
               the
               matter
               among
               your selves
               ,
               and
               be
               as
               well
               my
               Counsel
               as
               my
               Judges
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               when
               I
               offer
               to
               your
               Lordships
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               I
               did
               in
               no
               wise
               admit
               the
               matter
               of
               Fact.
               —
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               ,
               I
               cannot
               hear
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               ,
               that
               Paper
               may
               be
               read
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Deliver
               your
               Paper
               in
               ,
               my
               Lords
               cannot
               hear
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               cannot
               ●eny
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               what
               happened
               to
               
               me
               on
               Saturday
               night
               ,
               disturbed
               me
               very
               much
               .
               Every
               day
               since
               I
               came
               ●●ther
               ,
               there
               hath
               been
               such
               shouting
               and
               houting
               by
               a
               Company
               of
               barbarous
               Rabble
               ,
               as
               never
               was
               heard
               the
               like
               ,
               I
               believe
               ,
               but
               it
               was
               at
               a
               distance
               most
               of
               the
               time
               ,
               and
               so
               it
               did
               not
               much
               concern
               me
               .
               But
               Saturday
               night
               it
               was
               so
               near
               and
               so
               great
               ,
               that
               really
               it
               hath
               disturbed
               me
               ever
               since
               ;
               it
               was
               great
               to
               day
               ,
               but
               at
               a
               distance
               ;
               if
               it
               were
               not
               thus
               ,
               I
               should
               not
               offer
               a
               Paper
               to
               be
               read
               ;
               I
               scarce
               know
               what
               I
               do
               or
               say
               considering
               the
               Circumstances
               ▪
               I
               am
               in
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Take
               my
               Lords
               Paper
               and
               read
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Thomas
               Lee.
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               you
               will
               please
               to
               consider
               whether
               this
               may
               not
               introduce
               a
               new
               Custom
               by
               reading
               of
               this
               Paper
               .
               As
               to
               what
               my
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               to
               say
               ,
               I
               am
               sorry
               for
               the
               occasion
               that
               any
               disturbance
               should
               arise
               to
               my
               Lord
               ,
               from
               the
               Rabble
               ,
               or
               any
               one
               else
               ;
               I
               hope
               his
               Lordship
               believes
               we
               cannot
               help
               ,
               nor
               do
               we
               contribute
               to
               that
               disturbance
               .
               But
               we
               desire
               your
               Lordships
               to
               consider
               whether
               this
               practise
               of
               having
               things
               written
               down
               for
               the
               Clerk
               to
               read
               ,
               may
               not
               introduce
               a
               Custom
               ,
               which
               may
               in
               time
               grow
               inconvenient
               for
               future
               Example
               .
               I
               see
               no
               great
               danger
               in
               the
               particular
               Instance
               before
               your
               Lordships
               now
               ,
               but
               it
               is
               dangerous
               in
               such
               Cases
               to
               do
               any
               thing
               that
               is
               new
               in
               this
               Court.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               All
               the
               matter
               is
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               read
               by
               my
               Lord
               ,
               who
               cannot
               be
               heard
               ,
               or
               read
               by
               the
               Clerk.
               
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Thomas
               Lee.
               
            
             
               We
               only
               oppose
               it
               out
               of
               fear
               of
               making
               a
               President
               ,
               which
               may
               be
               of
               ill
               consequence
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Read
               it
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               and
               raise
               your
               voice
               ,
               for
               it
               concerns
               you
               to
               speak
               out
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               
                 (
                 Reading
                 out
                 of
                 his
                 Paper
                 .
                 )
              
               My
               Lords
               ,
               when
               I
               offered
               Matter
               of
               Law
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               on
               Saturday
               last
               ,
               I
               did
               in
               no
               wise
               admit
               the
               Matter
               of
               Fact
               to
               be
               true
               that
               was
               alledged
               against
               me
               ,
               and
               so
               I
               desire
               to
               be
               understood
               .
               And
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               lay
               the
               less
               weight
               upon
               the
               Testimony
               of
               my
               Witnesses
               because
               they
               are
               not
               sworn
               ;
               for
               the
               Law
               does
               not
               suffer
               them
               to
               be
               sworn
               ,
               which
               is
               no
               fault
               of
               mine
               ,
               nor
               ought
               not
               to
               turn
               to
               my
               Prejudice
               .
            
             
               I
               must
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Judgments
               in
               point
               of
               Fact
               ,
               how
               far
               the
               Kings
               Witnesses
               are
               to
               be
               believed
               against
               me
               ,
               considering
               the
               whole
               matter
               ,
               and
               my
               Counter-proof
               .
            
             
               Next
               I
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Judgments
               this
               point
               ,
               That
               the
               Impeachment
               being
               founded
               upon
               the
               Common
               Law
               ,
               and
               the
               Statute
               of
               25
               
                 th
                 .
                 Edw.
              
               3.
               and
               not
               upon
               the
               Statute
               of
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               ,
               two
               of
               the
               Witnesses
               ,
               Dugdale
               and
               Turbervill
               ,
               do
               only
               swear
               Treasonable
               words
               spoken
               by
               me
               ,
               and
               not
               my
               Overt
               Act
               ;
               for
               they
               swear
               only
               that
               I
               promised
               them
               Money
               and
               Rewards
               to
               kill
               the
               King.
               Now
               I
               humbly
               pray
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               ,
               whether
               bare
               
               speaking
               of
               words
               be
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               and
               Treason
               at
               the
               Common
               Law
               ,
               or
               upon
               that
               Statute
               ;
               and
               whether
               there
               be
               more
               than
               speaking
               of
               Words
               in
               a
               Consult
               ,
               or
               otherwise
               proved
               by
               Dugdale
               and
               Turbervill
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               you
               ;
               then
               the
               other
               Witness
               ,
               Oats
               ,
               is
               but
               a
               single
               Witness
               ,
               who
               speaks
               of
               the
               receiving
               of
               a
               Commission
               .
               This
               is
               that
               I
               offer
               to
               your
               Lordships
               now
               for
               your
               Judgments
               ,
               and
               then
               I
               desire
               I
               may
               have
               your
               Opinion
               in
               other
               things
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               this
               all
               your
               Lordship
               hath
               to
               say
               ▪
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               For
               the
               present
               ,
               my
               Lords
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               You
               must
               say
               all
               you
               have
               to
               say
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               to
               hear
               Counsel
               to
               nothing
               at
               all
               ?
               I
               did
               likwise
               alledge
               to
               your
               Lordships
               th'
               other
               day
               ,
               that
               People
               that
               swear
               for
               Money
               ,
               are
               not
               competent
               credible
               Witnesses
               ;
               how
               far
               that
               was
               proved
               ,
               or
               I
               may
               prove
               by
               my
               Counsel
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Stewared
               .
            
             
               Look
               you
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ,
               you
               have
               so
               far
               received
               already
               the
               pleasure
               of
               the
               House
               :
               You
               have
               raised
               several
               Questions
               of
               Law
               ,
               whether
               every
               Overt
               Act
               require
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               it
               .
               You
               have
               had
               the
               Opinion
               of
               the
               Judges
               ,
               and
               there
               is
               no
               more
               to
               be
               said
               in
               it
               .
               As
               to
               that
               ,
               whether
               Impeachments
               continue
               from
               Parliament
               to
               Parliament
               ,
               and
               the
               other
               thing
               ,
               whether
               Proceedings
               may
               be
               upon
               an
               Impeachment
               without
               an
               Indictment
               ;
               these
               are
               matters
               of
               the
               Course
               and
               Constitutions
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               my
               Lords
               will
               consider
               of
               them
               by
               themselves
               ,
               and
               will
               permit
               no
               Counsel
               to
               argue
               them
               .
               For
               the
               other
               Point
               ,
               That
               words
               are
               no
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               that
               rests
               for
               their
               Opinion
               in
               another
               Case
               ,
               when
               it
               shall
               come
               ,
               for
               they
               have
               now
               no
               such
               Case
               before
               them
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Thumbly
               conceive
               there
               is
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               There
               is
               a
               great
               difference
               between
               bare
               words
               being
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               and
               perswasion
               by
               Promises
               of
               Money
               and
               Rewards
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               which
               is
               a
               very
               great
               Overt
               Act.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               possible
               to
               do
               an
               Act
               by
               Words
               ?
               If
               it
               be
               so
               ,
               I
               never
               heard
               it
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Otherwise
               men
               may
               promise
               Rewards
               to
               ●0
               several
               persons
               to
               kill
               the
               King
               ,
               and
               then
               say
               't
               is
               all
               but
               Words
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               I
               say
               it
               not
               ,
               but
               I
               humbly
               conceive
               the
               Law
               says
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               ,
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               something
               to
               say
               ,
               which
               I
               desire
               to
               speak
               first
               :
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hope
               I
               have
               cleared
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               that
               all
               the
               Witnesses
               have
               swore
               false
               against
               me
               ,
               and
               this
               I
               have
               made
               out
               by
               Proofs
               ;
               I
               say
               not
               much
               to
               that
               .
               —
               (
               My
               Lord
               was
               searching
               for
               his
               Papers
               )
               Truly
               ,
               my
               Lords
               I
               am
               confounded
               with
               the
               Noise
               and
               other
               Circumstances
               ,
               but
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               shall
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               please
               to
               give
               me
               leave
               ,
               humbly
               represent
               my
               Case
               to
               you
               ,
               how
               I
               take
               it
               to
               be
               in
               matter
               of
               Fact
               as
               to
               my
               own
               Condition
               not
               any
               thing
               ,
               but
               how
               I
               am
               now
               before
               your
               Lordships
               .
            
             
             
               I
               was
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               committed
               by
               my
               Lord
               Chief
               Justices
               Warrant
               ,
               on
               the
               20.
               or
               21.
               of
               October
               ,
               (
               78.
               )
               Friday
               ,
               the
               25.
               of
               October
               ,
               I
               was
               brought
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Bar
               ,
               I
               was
               Impeached
               ;
               I
               do
               not
               remember
               the
               day
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               the
               beginning
               of
               December
               ,
               in
               one
               Parliament
               Articles
               exhibited
               against
               me
               ,
               in
               another
               Parliament
               I
               was
               brought
               upon
               these
               Articles
               exhibited
               ,
               and
               being
               called
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Bar
               ,
               the
               Articles
               were
               read
               to
               me
               ,
               and
               I
               gave
               in
               my
               Answer
               ,
               that
               was
               sometime
               in
               May
               (
               79.
               )
               and
               in
               the
               end
               of
               May
               the
               27.
               (
               if
               I
               mistake
               not
               ,
               if
               I
               do
               ,
               I
               desire
               it
               may
               be
               rectified
               by
               your
               Books
               )
               I
               with
               the
               other
               Lords
               ,
               were
               brought
               to
               this
               place
               in
               order
               to
               our
               Trial.
               We
               staid
               some
               time
               there
               ,
               and
               then
               were
               remanded
               by
               your
               Order
               to
               the
               Tower
               ,
               where
               I
               continued
               till
               November
               twelve
               month
               after
               ,
               without
               having
               heard
               any
               thing
               concerning
               it
               ;
               so
               that
               I
               was
               first
               Impeached
               in
               one
               Parliament
               ,
               Articles
               brought
               against
               me
               and
               pleaded
               to
               in
               a
               second
               ,
               and
               now
               brought
               to
               my
               Trial
               in
               a
               third
               ;
               and
               what
               your
               Lordships
               will
               say
               upon
               this
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               you
               ,
               and
               whether
               these
               be
               Proceedings
               according
               to
               Law
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               will
               judge
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               humbly
               conceive
               that
               
                 Magna
                 Charta
              
               says
               ,
               That
               Justice
               shall
               be
               denied
               nor
               delayed
               to
               no
               man
               ,
               whether
               it
               hath
               not
               been
               delayed
               to
               me
               ,
               let
               your
               Lordships
               judge
               .
               If
               you
               say
               the
               Prorogation
               of
               the
               Parliament
               is
               the
               cause
               of
               that
               delay
               ,
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               say
               ,
               That
               from
               the
               5.
               of
               December
               to
               the
               30.
               when
               the
               first
               Parliament
               was
               Prorogued
               ,
               or
               during
               the
               Session
               of
               the
               other
               Parliament
               ,
               there
               was
               time
               enough
               sure
               wherein
               I
               might
               have
               been
               brought
               to
               my
               Trial
               ;
               and
               if
               these
               proceedings
               be
               lawful
               and
               just
               ,
               there
               is
               no
               man
               living
               ,
               but
               may
               be
               kept
               off
               from
               time
               to
               time
               ,
               till
               some
               Accidents
               happen
               that
               their
               ends
               may
               be
               gained
               .
               I
               leave
               it
               to
               your
               judgment
               ,
               whether
               it
               may
               be
               only
               my
               Case
               now
               ,
               or
               of
               some
               of
               your
               Lordships
               in
               future
               Ages
               ,
               to
               be
               accused
               of
               things
               that
               you
               never
               heard
               of
               before
               ,
               and
               not
               brought
               to
               justifie
               your selves
               ,
               but
               kept
               in
               Prison
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               There
               is
               a
               Statute
               ,
               I
               have
               forgot
               where
               it
               is
               (
               but
               such
               a
               one
               I
               have
               read
               )
               that
               though
               the
               King
               by
               his
               great
               Seal
               ,
               or
               little
               Seal
               ,
               command
               that
               Justice
               should
               be
               delaid
               or
               denied
               ,
               yet
               however
               the
               Judges
               shall
               not
               obey
               it
               ,
               but
               proceed
               .
               So
               I
               hope
               there
               is
               no
               pretence
               of
               delay
               on
               my
               part
               ,
               and
               the
               benefit
               of
               that
               Statute
               shall
               not
               be
               denied
               me
               .
               And
               that
               Statute
               of
               the
               Great
               Charter
               ,
               which
               cost
               so
               many
               of
               your
               Ancestors
               their
               Lives
               to
               maintain
               ,
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               never
               go
               from
               .
               Now
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               Noble
               Ancestors
               amongst
               other
               things
               ,
               took
               great
               care
               that
               Justice
               should
               be
               denied
               or
               delayed
               to
               none
               ;
               and
               this
               I
               desire
               you
               to
               take
               into
               Consideration
               .
            
             
               I
               am
               in
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               either
               to
               be
               Acquitted
               or
               Condemned
               .
               I
               hope
               your
               Lordships
               will
               ,
               and
               I
               know
               you
               will
               lay
               your
               Hands
               upon
               your
               Hearts
               ,
               consult
               your
               Consciences
               and
               your
               Honours
               ,
               and
               then
               you
               will
               do
               what
               is
               Just
               and
               Equitable
               I
               doubt
               not
               .
            
             
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               Mr.
               Oats
               said
               I
               came
               by
               the
               name
               of
               Mr.
               Howard
               of
               Essingham
               ,
               but
               that
               I
               did
               to
               my
               Letters
               sign
               Stafford
               ;
               surely
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               if
               I
               was
               ashamed
               to
               own
               my
               Person
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               been
               as
               much
               ashamed
               to
               have
               owned
               my
               Name
               .
               He
               says
               he
               saw
               me
               take
               a
               Commission
               ,
               and
               whether
               that
               be
               an
               Overt
               Act
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               are
               to
               determine
               .
               Upon
               the
               whole
               matter
               ,
               I
               conceive
               ,
               there
               is
               nothing
               proved
               against
               me
               ,
               but
               words
               ,
               nor
               pretended
               to
               ▪
               but
               only
               by
               Oats
               .
               And
               whether
               you
               will
               credit
               a
               man
               that
               so
               dissembles
               with
               God
               ,
               as
               I
               have
               told
               you
               ,
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               beg
               you
               to
               consider
               of
               it
               .
            
             
               That
               these
               Witnesses
               have
               sworn
               for
               Money
               ,
               if
               you
               send
               to
               the
               Exchequer
               Office
               and
               see
               what
               Money
               they
               have
               received
               ,
               you
               will
               find
               by
               the
               great
               Sums
               that
               't
               is
               so
               ,
               and
               then
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               not
               allow
               them
               to
               be
               heard
               ,
               nor
               credit
               any
               that
               swear
               for
               gain
               .
               I
               had
               a
               Suit
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               ,
               that
               had
               like
               to
               have
               gone
               expresly
               against
               me
               ,
               only
               because
               one
               of
               my
               Witnesses
               was
               to
               gain
               8
               l.
               if
               the
               Suit
               went
               for
               me
               .
               But
               pray
               consider
               how
               much
               these
               men
               have
               had
               .
               And
               for
               the
               point
               that
               there
               are
               not
               two
               Witnesses
               ,
               I
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               put
               you
               in
               mind
               ,
               That
               not
               many
               Years
               ago
               ,
               you
               passed
               an
               Act
               against
               Frauds
               and
               Perjuries
               ,
               wherein
               you
               were
               so
               careful
               to
               preserve
               mens
               Estates
               ,
               that
               you
               required
               three
               Witnesses
               to
               prove
               a
               Will
               of
               Goods
               or
               Lands
               ,
               above
               100
               l.
               and
               will
               you
               allow
               but
               one
               Witness
               to
               take
               away
               a
               mans
               Life
               for
               Words
               ?
               Though
               your
               Lordships
               will
               never
               commit
               Treason
               ,
               yet
               no
               man
               can
               preserve
               himself
               from
               the
               Misfortune
               that
               happens
               to
               me
               ,
               of
               being
               falsly
               accused
               .
            
             
               'T
               is
               true
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               the
               Managers
               have
               given
               an
               Answer
               to
               the
               Business
               of
               the
               Money
               ,
               by
               saying
               ,
               The
               King
               may
               give
               as
               liberally
               as
               he
               pleases
               ,
               but
               to
               give
               so
               great
               Sums
               ,
               whereby
               Men
               Poor
               before
               ,
               are
               now
               become
               Rich
               ,
               I
               think
               will
               be
               an
               Objection
               against
               their
               Credit
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               said
               what
               I
               do
               think
               convenient
               ,
               though
               I
               think
               much
               more
               might
               be
               said
               by
               an
               abler
               man
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               for
               the
               clearing
               of
               himself
               .
               I
               hope
               I
               have
               done
               it
               ,
               nay
               ,
               I
               am
               confident
               I
               have
               ;
               and
               this
               I
               have
               done
               for
               the
               Memory
               of
               that
               Great
               and
               Blessed
               King
               ,
               who
               first
               made
               me
               a
               Peer
               ,
               that
               it
               may
               not
               be
               said
               ,
               He
               did
               me
               the
               Honour
               Forty
               Years
               ago
               to
               call
               me
               up
               to
               this
               Dignity
               ,
               and
               I
               should
               fly
               in
               the
               Face
               of
               his
               Son
               in
               so
               horrible
               a
               manner
               as
               these
               men
               would
               make
               me
               .
               I
               do
               owe
               it
               to
               the
               Honour
               of
               my
               Father
               and
               Mother
               ,
               who
               ,
               I
               think
               ,
               I
               may
               safely
               say
               ,
               were
               both
               Honourable
               and
               Worthy
               Persons
               :
               My
               Father
               was
               a
               learned
               man
               ,
               and
               a
               wise
               man
               ,
               as
               I
               may
               appeal
               to
               some
               of
               your
               Lordships
               who
               knew
               him
               well
               ;
               I
               say
               ,
               I
               owe
               it
               to
               their
               Memory
               ,
               and
               to
               the
               Honour
               of
               the
               Family
               from
               whence
               I
               sprang
               ,
               which
               all
               the
               world
               knows
               what
               it
               is
               .
               And
               I
               should
               be
               an
               infamous
               man
               to
               dishonour
               them
               so
               much
               as
               to
               bear
               their
               Name
               ,
               and
               commit
               Treason
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               owe
               it
               to
               my
               Wife
               ,
               who
               hath
               been
               a
               very
               kind
               Wife
               to
               me
               as
               ever
               Man
               had
               :
               She
               is
               Heiress
               at
               Law
               to
               the
               great
               
               Estate
               of
               that
               great
               and
               unfortunate
               Man
               Stafford
               ,
               Duke
               of
               Buckingham
               ,
               who
               was
               cut
               offin
               the
               Reign
               of
               King
               Henry
               the
               Eighth
               ,
               and
               all
               his
               Estate
               ,
               if
               it
               were
               not
               for
               that
               Attainder
               ,
               would
               have
               come
               to
               her
               .
            
             
               I
               may
               be
               impertinent
               in
               telling
               your
               Lordships
               what
               it
               was
               ,
               but
               I
               do
               not
               over-say
               it
               ,
               when
               I
               reckon
               it
               would
               have
               been
               at
               this
               day
               Two
               hundred
               thousand
               pounds
               a
               Year
               ,
               for
               it
               was
               Seventeen
               thousand
               pounds
               a
               Year
               in
               those
               days
               Penny
               Rent
               ,
               besides
               other
               Emoluments
               .
               This
               is
               an
               extravagant
               thing
               to
               say
               ,
               but
               't
               is
               true
               ,
               something
               thereof
               does
               ▪
               remain
               to
               her
               ,
               which
               I
               now
               enjoy
               .
               I
               owe
               it
               to
               all
               my
               Children
               ,
               especially
               to
               my
               Eldest
               Son
               ,
               who
               is
               a
               young
               Man
               ,
               and
               I
               may
               say
               of
               far
               better
               Parts
               and
               Hopes
               than
               his
               Father
               ,
               and
               whom
               ,
               I
               hope
               ,
               will
               serve
               his
               Country
               .
               I
               owe
               it
               to
               all
               my
               Friends
               and
               Relations
               ,
               for
               I
               would
               not
               have
               it
               said
               after-my
               Death
               ,
               my
               Wife
               was
               the
               Widow
               of
               a
               Traytor
               .
               I
               owe
               it
               to
               all
               these
               ,
               but
               above
               all
               I
               owe
               it
               to
               God
               Almighty
               ,
               then
               when
               I
               come
               to
               be
               judged
               by
               Him
               ,
               I
               may
               give
               a
               good
               account
               of
               what
               he
               hath
               intrusted
               me
               with
               ,
               that
               I
               may
               not
               appear
               as
               an
               infamous
               Man
               who
               knows
               he
               hath
               a
               Body
               ,
               but
               not
               his
               own
               ,
               and
               yet
               should
               throw
               it
               and
               his
               Soul
               away
               together
               .
               And
               if
               I
               should
               have
               committed
               this
               Execrable
               Treason
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               been
               Guilty
               of
               my
               own
               Murder
               :
               First
               ,
               in
               the
               committing
               a
               Crime
               worthy
               of
               Death
               ;
               and
               then
               in
               not
               Confessing
               to
               save
               my
               Life
               .
               I
               hold
               Murder
               an
               extraordinary
               Crime
               ,
               the
               worst
               next
               to
               Treason
               :
               And
               I
               know
               ,
               if
               I
               should
               not
               prevent
               my
               Death
               by
               confessing
               all
               I
               knew
               ,
               I
               should
               have
               been
               guilty
               of
               Self-Murder
               ,
               the
               worst
               of
               Murders
               .
               I
               know
               your
               Lordships
               will
               lay
               to
               Heart
               ,
               what
               an
               execrable
               thing
               Murder
               is
               and
               the
               Blood
               of
               Innocents
               ;
               and
               I
               hope
               there
               is
               none
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ,
               but
               after
               this
               Evidence
               ,
               will
               clear
               me
               .
               I
               am
               sure
               none
               of
               them
               would
               have
               me
               punished
               for
               that
               I
               am
               not
               Guilty
               of
               .
               I
               do
               not
               blame
               these
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               for
               Prosecuting
               ,
               nor
               the
               first
               for
               Impeaching
               ;
               for
               they
               had
               ,
               without
               all
               doubt
               ,
               Reasons
               great
               enough
               for
               it
               upon
               what
               Evidence
               they
               had
               before
               them
               ,
               before
               they
               knew
               what
               the
               Witnesses
               were
               .
               I
               know
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               in
               the
               least
               point
               vary
               from
               Justice
               ,
               or
               the
               Law
               of
               the
               Land
               ,
               and
               I
               desire
               you
               to
               lay
               the
               whole
               matter
               to
               your
               Hearts
               ;
               I
               have
               not
               the
               least
               suspicion
               of
               the
               Partiality
               of
               any
               Man
               in
               the
               House
               ,
               nay
               ,
               I
               profess
               ,
               if
               I
               had
               an
               Enemy
               and
               he
               were
               not
               here
               ,
               I
               would
               beg
               of
               you
               that
               he
               might
               come
               .
               I
               have
               cleared
               my self
               before
               your
               Lordshships
               ,
               and
               I
               hope
               I
               shall
               not
               be
               run
               down
               by
               the
               wicked
               Rabble
               ,
               which
               where
               it
               will
               end
               ,
               God
               knows
               .
               It
               began
               in
               the
               late
               times
               against
               my
               Lord
               of
               Strafford
               ,
               and
               so
               continued
               till
               it
               ended
               in
               that
               most
               Execrable
               Fact
               ,
               one
               of
               them
               that
               ever
               was
               done
               .
               A
               wicked
               beginning
               it
               was
               ,
               and
               it
               had
               a
               wicked
               end
               .
               For
               since
               our
               Saviours
               Death
               and
               Murder
               by
               the
               Jews
               ,
               never
               was
               so
               execrable
               a
               Murder
               in
               the
               World
               ;
               and
               whoever
               had
               an
               hand
               in
               it
               without
               an
               extraordinary
               Repentance
               ,
               can
               have
               no
               thoughts
               of
               Salvation
               .
               I
               never
               could
               serve
               the
               King
               ,
               't
               is
               true
               ,
               but
               in
               my
               desires
               ,
               and
               I
               never
               disserted
               him
               in
               Thought
               ,
               Word
               ,
               or
               Deed
               to
               
               my
               knowledg
               in
               my
               life
               ,
               much
               less
               did
               I
               ever
               contrive
               or
               consent
               to
               his
               Death
               .
               I
               do
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               God
               ,
               Angels
               ,
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               all
               Men
               ,
               declare
               ,
               I
               do
               know
               no
               more
               of
               the
               Plot
               ,
               or
               any
               such
               thing
               than
               any
               one
               here
               does
               .
               That
               those
               of
               the
               Romish
               Religion
               had
               meetings
               ,
               I
               believe
               ,
               to
               obtain
               those
               ends
               that
               I
               spake
               of
               before
               :
               Coleman
               went
               too
               far
               ,
               how
               far
               he
               was
               Criminal
               in
               it
               I
               cann't
               tell
               .
               Meetings
               ,
               I
               say
               ,
               there
               were
               ,
               but
               I
               was
               never
               at
               one
               of
               them
               ,
               nor
               do
               I
               know
               what
               was
               done
               there
               .
               I
               do
               leave
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               to
               do
               Justice
               ,
               as
               I
               know
               you
               will
               ,
               and
               with
               all
               submission
               I
               resign
               my self
               up
               to
               you
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Have
               you
               done
               ,
               my
               Lord
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               If
               your
               Lordships
               will
               not
               allow
               me
               Counsel
               to
               argue
               those
               Points
               ,
               I
               have
               done
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               say
               you
               Gentlemen
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Serjeant
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               some
               thing
               that
               my
               Lord
               hath
               spoken
               hath
               been
               resolved
               against
               him
               ,
               that
               is
               about
               two
               Witnesses
               to
               each
               Overt-act
               ;
               some
               things
               are
               not
               to
               be
               disputed
               about
               the
               Law
               and
               Course
               of
               Parliaments
               ,
               some
               things
               were
               not
               to
               be
               said
               now
               ,
               because
               he
               had
               said
               them
               before
               .
               My
               Lords
               ▪
               we
               had
               concluded
               our
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               he
               is
               pleased
               to
               take
               up
               the
               time
               with
               repeating
               what
               was
               said
               before
               .
            
             
               For
               the
               other
               matters
               that
               my
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               to
               discourse
               of
               ,
               all
               he
               says
               is
               but
               his
               Obligations
               ,
               and
               how
               unreasonable
               it
               were
               for
               him
               to
               do
               it
               ;
               the
               Question
               is
               whether
               he
               hath
               done
               it
               or
               no
               ;
               if
               he
               hath
               ,
               his
               Obligations
               are
               an
               Aggravation
               of
               his
               Crime
               ,
               not
               an
               Excuse
               .
               His
               Relations
               ,
               his
               Family
               ,
               and
               other
               things
               are
               nothing
               before
               your
               Lordships
               now
               in
               point
               of
               Judgment
               ,
               nor
               is
               there
               any
               thing
               new
               said
               to
               day
               ,
               that
               was
               not
               said
               before
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               William
               Jones
               
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               should
               not
               add
               one
               word
               ▪
               further
               ,
               were
               it
               not
               that
               this
               Noble
               Lord
               is
               pleased
               upon
               his
               Memory
               ,
               or
               rather
               without
               ,
               to
               say
               something
               of
               me
               ,
               and
               that
               was
               ,
               that
               speaking
               of
               the
               Continuance
               of
               Proc●edings
               I
               should
               say
               ,
               if
               your
               Lordships
               had
               no
               President
               I
               hope
               you
               would
               make
               one
               ;
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               do
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               Memory
               whether
               I
               said
               any
               thing
               like
               it
               ,
               I
               utterly
               deny
               it
               ,
               nor
               was
               there
               any
               occasion
               for
               it
               .
               For
               there
               was
               no
               need
               of
               urging
               Presidents
               ,
               when
               your
               Lordships
               upon
               a
               Conference
               with
               the
               Commons
               ,
               did
               declare
               it
               to
               be
               the
               Law
               of
               Proceedings
               in
               Parliament
               ,
               and
               did
               then
               fortifie
               i●
               with
               many
               Arguments
               .
               I
               know
               my
               Lords
               Memory
               is
               not
               very
               good
               ;
               
               I
               'm
               sure
               in
               this
               he
               is
               very
               much
               m●staken
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               hath
               been
               pleased
               to
               complain
               he
               hath
               received
               much
               disturbance
               ,
               and
               that
               the
               Noise
               and
               Shouts
               have
               been
               so
               great
               that
               they
               have
               occasioned
               some
               l●straction
               in
               him
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               sure
               his
               Lordship
               cannot
               mean
               us
               ;
               for
               I
               appeal
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               all
               that
               have
               heard
               this
               Tryal
               ,
               whether
               he
               hath
               received
               the
               least
               disturbance
               or
               interruption
               from
               us
               ,
               or
               whether
               we
               have
               
               not
               treated
               him
               with
               that
               respect
               that
               becomes
               his
               Dignity
               ,
               and
               the
               Discretion
               that
               ought
               to
               be
               in
               the
               Managers
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               .
               But
               I
               must
               needs
               say
               ,
               that
               his
               Lordship
               hath
               received
               distraction
               from
               those
               Friends
               or
               Counsel
               of
               his
               that
               put
               those
               many
               Papers
               into
               his
               Hand
               ;
               for
               he
               hath
               read
               one
               after
               another
               that
               do
               contain
               the
               same
               matter
               over
               and
               over
               again
               .
               These
               I
               confess
               were
               sufficient
               to
               distract
               him
               ,
               or
               any
               other
               that
               should
               make
               use
               of
               them
               .
               His
               Lordship
               hath
               been
               pleased
               to
               go
               off
               from
               the
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               to
               the
               matter
               of
               Fact
               ,
               and
               backward
               and
               forward
               ,
               so
               that
               it
               is
               impossible
               to
               follow
               him
               :
               And
               as
               to
               the
               matter
               of
               Fact
               we
               shall
               decline
               to
               follow
               him
               ;
               for
               though
               we
               have
               not
               given
               his
               Lordship
               any
               disturbance
               ,
               yet
               we
               submit
               to
               your
               Judgment
               whether
               it
               be
               Regular
               ,
               or
               according
               to
               the
               Course
               of
               Proceedings
               ,
               when
               his
               Lordship
               hath
               sum'd
               up
               his
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               we
               that
               are
               the
               Prosecutors
               have
               concluded
               ours
               ,
               he
               should
               begin
               that
               work
               again
               ,
               which
               if
               it
               should
               be
               admitted
               we
               were
               to
               reply
               ,
               and
               he
               might
               rejoin
               upon
               us
               ,
               and
               so
               there
               would
               be
               no
               end
               of
               Proceedings
               .
            
             
               And
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               hope
               ,
               though
               this
               Lord
               hath
               had
               the
               favour
               to
               do
               it
               ,
               yet
               it
               shall
               not
               for
               the
               future
               be
               brought
               into
               Example
               ,
               for
               it
               will
               make
               Tryals
               endless
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               for
               the
               matter
               of
               Law
               ,
               there
               is
               nothing
               that
               deserves
               an
               Answer
               ,
               for
               though
               the
               Law
               does
               admit
               the
               Prisoner
               Counsel
               in
               matters
               of
               Law
               ,
               yet
               it
               must
               be
               in
               things
               doubtful
               :
               And
               if
               there
               be
               any
               thing
               of
               that
               in
               our
               Case
               ,
               I
               submit
               it
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
               I
               am
               sure
               I
               have
               heard
               nothing
               new
               but
               what
               hath
               been
               over-ruled
               already
               ,
               unless
               it
               be
               a
               matter
               of
               Law
               which
               rises
               upon
               a
               matter
               of
               Fact
               ,
               and
               that
               not
               proved
               ,
               to
               wit
               ,
               the
               Corruption
               of
               Witnesses
               .
               The
               last
               day
               all
               was
               said
               by
               his
               Lordship
               he
               could
               say
               ,
               and
               all
               said
               by
               us
               that
               we
               thought
               fit
               to
               say
               ,
               and
               now
               to
               begin
               the
               same
               matter
               again
               ,
               I
               think
               ought
               not
               to
               be
               admitted
               .
               We
               shall
               not
               follow
               his
               Lordship
               in
               that
               way
               of
               Proceedings
               ,
               and
               hope
               it
               shall
               never
               fall
               into
               Example
               .
            
          
           
             
               Sir
               Francis
               Winnington
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               only
               one
               word
               to
               say
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               in
               relation
               to
               the
               Proceedings
               of
               the
               Commons
               in
               this
               Cause
               ;
               for
               if
               the
               Cause
               had
               not
               been
               of
               an
               extraordinary
               nature
               ,
               we
               should
               have
               stood
               upon
               it
               ,
               that
               the
               Prisoner
               ought
               not
               after
               the
               Prosecutors
               had
               concluded
               to
               have
               taken
               a
               liberty
               of
               reading
               and
               repeating
               what
               we
               had
               said
               over
               and
               over
               again
               .
               We
               know
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               there
               are
               are
               a
               sort
               of
               men
               in
               the
               world
               ,
               who
               are
               willing
               to
               lay
               hold
               of
               any
               pretences
               to
               cavil
               at
               our
               Proceedings
               ,
               and
               therefore
               we
               have
               let
               my
               Lord
               take
               all
               this
               liberty
               ,
               that
               so
               his
               Party
               might
               have
               no
               colour
               of
               Complaint
               .
               His
               Lordship
               was
               pleased
               to
               say
               the
               last
               day
               ,
               that
               he
               had
               not
               a
               Witness
               more
               to
               produce
               ,
               nor
               a
               Reason
               to
               give
               ,
               as
               I
               understood
               him
               ;
               and
               therefore
               he
               must
               own
               that
               we
               have
               been
               very
               tender
               to
               him
               in
               all
               our
               Proceedings
               .
               One
               thing
               my
               Lord
               insinuates
               to
               day
               ,
               which
               I
               cannot
               forbear
               taking
               notice
               of
               ,
               
               as
               if
               we
               had
               delayed
               him
               ,
               which
               is
               without
               cause
               ;
               we
               had
               used
               all
               diligence
               in
               preparing
               our selves
               ,
               and
               were
               soon
               ready
               when
               the
               King
               was
               pleased
               to
               let
               the
               Parliament
               sit
               ,
               and
               therefore
               it
               can
               be
               no
               imputation
               on
               us
               ;
               and
               truly
               if
               my
               Lord
               considers
               the
               weight
               of
               the
               Evidence
               ,
               I
               fear
               he
               will
               think
               his
               Tryal
               comes
               soon
               enough
               now
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               desire
               to
               be
               rightly
               understood
               in
               one
               thing
               ,
               and
               't
               is
               only
               this
               ,
               I
               did
               not
               say
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               shouted
               at
               me
               ,
               but
               the
               Rabble
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Is
               it
               your
               Lordships
               pleasure
               to
               Adjourn
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lords
               .
            
             
               Ay
               ,
               Ay.
               
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Then
               this
               House
               is
               Adjourned
               to
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             Lords
             withdrew
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             ,
             and
             the
             Committee
             of
             Commons
             went
             back
             to
             their
             House
             .
          
           
             Mr.
             Speaker
             resumed
             the
             Chair
             .
          
           
             A
             Message
             was
             sent
             from
             the
             Lords
             by
             Sir
             
               Timothy
               Baldwyn
            
             and
             Sir
             
               Samuel
               Clarke
            
             .
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               ,
            
             
               The
               Lords
               have
               commanded
               us
               to
               acquaint
               this
               House
               ,
               that
               they
               have
               appointed
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               to
               be
               brought
               to
               the
               Bar
               in
               Westminster-Hall
               to
               morrow
               morning
               at
               Ten
               of
               the
               Clock
               to
               receive
               Judgment
               .
            
          
           
             The
             Commons
             Adjourned
             to
             Eight
             of
             the
             Clock
             the
             next
             Morning
             .
          
        
         
           
           
             The
             Seventh
             Day
             .
          
           
             
               Tuesday
               ,
               December
            
             7.
             1680.
             
          
           
             ABout
             the
             hour
             of
             Eleven
             ,
             the
             Lords
             Adjourned
             into
             Westminster-Hall
             ,
             going
             thither
             in
             their
             former
             Order
             into
             the
             Court
             there
             erected
             ;
             and
             Mr.
             Speaker
             having
             left
             the
             Chair
             ,
             the
             Committee
             of
             Commons
             were
             seated
             as
             before
             .
          
           
             The
             Lords
             being
             sate
             ,
             Proclamation
             was
             made
             for
             Silence
             ;
             and
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             being
             seated
             on
             the
             Wool-pack
             ,
             with
             Garter
             Principal
             King
             of
             Arms
             ,
             the
             Usher
             of
             the
             Black
             Rod
             ▪
             Nine
             Maces
             attending
             him
             ,
             with
             all
             the
             rest
             of
             the
             Solemnity
             ,
             as
             was
             at
             first
             expressed
             ,
             took
             the
             Votes
             of
             the
             Peers
             upon
             the
             Evidence
             ,
             beginning
             at
             the
             Puisne
             Baron
             ,
             and
             so
             upwards
             ,
             in
             this
             Order
             ,
             the
             Lord
             Stafford
             being
             (
             as
             the
             Law
             requires
             )
             absent
             .
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               am
               an
               humble
               Suitor
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               That
               you
               will
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               collect
               your
               Votes
               as
               I
               sit
               ,
               for
               I
               am
               not
               able
               to
               stand
               .
               Which
               being
               granted
               ,
               the
               
                 Lord
                 High
                 Steward
              
               proceeded
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Butler
               of
               Weston
               ,
               Is
               William
               Lord
               Viscount
               Stafford
               Guilty
               of
               the
               Treason
               whereof
               he
               stands
               Impeached
               ,
               or
               Not
               Guilty
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Butler
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             The
             same
             Question
             was
             put
             to
             the
             rest
             ,
             whose
             Names
             and
             Votes
             follow
             .
          
           
             
               Lord
               Arundel
               of
               Trerice
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Crewe
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Cornwallis
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Holles
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Wootton
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Rockingham
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               Lucas
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Astley
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Ward
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Byron
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Hatton
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Leigh
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Herbert
               of
               Cherbury
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Howard
               of
               Escrick
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Maynard
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Lovelace
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Deincourt
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Grey
               of
               Wark
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Brook.
               
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Norreys
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Chandos
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               North
               and
               Grey
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Pagett
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Wharton
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Eure.
               
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Cromwell
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Windsor
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Conyers
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Ferrers
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               
                 Morley
                 ▪
              
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Mowbray
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Viscount
               Newport
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Viscount
               Faulconberge
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Conway
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Berkley
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Maslesfield
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Hallifax
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Feversham
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Sussex
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Guilford
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Shaftsbury
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Burlington
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Earl
               of
               Ailesbury
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Craven
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Carlisle
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Bath
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Essex
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Clarendon
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               
                 St
                 ▪
                 Albans
              
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Scarsdale
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Sunderland
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Thanet
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Chesterfield
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Carnarvan
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Winchelsea
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Stamford
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Peterborough
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               Rivers
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Mulgrave
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Barkshire
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Manchester
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Westmorland
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Clare
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Bristol
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Denbigh
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Northampton
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Leicester
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Bridgwater
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Salisbury
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Suffolk
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Bedford
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Huntingdon
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Rutland
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Kent
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Earl
               of
               Oxford
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Chamberlain
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Marquess
               of
               Worcester
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Duke
               of
               Newcastle
               .
            
             
               Not
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Duke
               of
               Monmouth
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Duke
               of
               Albemarle
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Duke
               of
               Buckingham
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Privy-Seal
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               President
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Prince
               Rupert
               Duke
               of
               Cumberland
               .
            
             
               Guilty
               upon
               my
               Honour
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               upon
               telling
               your
               Votes
               ,
               I
               find
               there
               are
               Thirty
               one
               of
               my
               Lords
               that
               think
               the
               Prisoner
               
                 Not
                 Guilty
              
               ,
               and
               Fifty
               five
               that
               have
               found
               him
               Guilty
               .
               Serjeant
               make
               Proclamation
               for
               the
               Lieutenant
               of
               the
               Tower
               to
               bring
               his
               Prisoner
               to
               the
               Bar.
               
               
                 (
                 which
                 was
                 done
                 ,
                 and
                 his
                 Lordship
                 came
                 to
                 the
                 Bar.
                 )
              
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               
                 Stafford
                 ,
                 I
              
               have
               but
               heavy
               tidings
               for
               you
               ,
               your
               Lordship
               hath
               been
               Impeached
               of
               High-Treason
               ,
               you
               have
               pleaded
               
                 Not
                 Guilty
              
               ,
               my
               Lords
               have
               heard
               your
               Defence
               ,
               and
               have
               considered
               of
               the
               Evidence
               ,
               and
               their
               Lordships
               do
               find
               you
               Guilty
               of
               the
               Treason
               whereof
               you
               are
               Impeached
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               Gods
               Holy
               Name
               be
               praised
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               for
               it
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               What
               can
               your
               Lordship
               say
               for
               your self
               ,
               why
               Judgment
               of
               Death
               should
               not
               be
               given
               upon
               you
               according
               to
               the
               Law
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               very
               little
               to
               say
               ,
               I
               confess
               I
               am
               surprized
               at
               it
               ,
               for
               I
               did
               not
               expect
               it
               ;
               but
               Gods
               will
               be
               done
               ,
               and
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               I
               will
               not
               murmur
               at
               it
               :
               God
               forgive
               those
               that
               have
               sworn
               falsly
               against
               me
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               conceive
               I
               have
               something
               to
               say
               for
               respit
               of
               Judgment
               ;
               I
               have
               been
               at
               many
               Tryals
               in
               my
               Life
               ,
               but
               I
               never
               saw
               any
               Tryal
               where
               the
               party
               tried
               did
               not
               hold
               up
               his
               Hand
               ,
               which
               I
               was
               never
               asked
               to
               do
               ;
               I
               thought
               it
               had
               been
               a
               very
               material
               point
               in
               the
               Law
               ,
               That
               by
               the
               holding
               up
               of
               the
               Hand
               he
               might
               be
               known
               to
               be
               the
               Person
               .
               I
               have
               read
               ,
               lately
               ,
               since
               I
               had
               the
               misfortune
               to
               be
               thus
               accused
               ,
               Sir
               
                 Edward
                 Coke
              
               upon
               the
               Pleas
               of
               the
               Crown
               ,
               and
               he
               says
               that
               Misnomer
               ,
               the
               not
               giving
               a
               man
               his
               right
               name
               ,
               or
               addition
               ,
               is
               likewise
               a
               just
               Cause
               to
               arrest
               the
               Judgment
               .
               There
               is
               likewise
               another
               Question
               how
               far
               it
               may
               be
               valued
               I
               know
               not
               ,
               I
               submit
               it
               ,
               as
               I
               do
               all
               ,
               to
               your
               Lordships
               .
               Though
               I
               am
               tried
               upon
               the
               Act
               of
               25
               Edw.
               3
               d.
               yet
               there
               is
               nothing
               more
               in
               that
               Act
               ,
               than
               what
               is
               included
               in
               the
               Act
               of
               the
               13
               th
               .
               of
               this
               King
               :
               And
               I
               humbly
               conceive
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               by
               that
               Act
               ,
               and
               the
               last
               Proviso
               in
               it
               ,
               a
               Peer
               that
               is
               accused
               and
               found
               Guilty
               of
               the
               Crimes
               therein
               mentioned
               ,
               is
               to
               lose
               his
               Seat
               in
               Parliament
               ;
               those
               are
               the
               words
               ,
               and
               since
               't
               is
               so
               put
               down
               in
               the
               Act
               ,
               it
               is
               so
               to
               be
               understood
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               all
               the
               punishment
               .
               And
               I
               humbly
               demand
               your
               Lordships
               Judgment
               upon
               these
               points
               ,
               whether
               it
               be
               so
               or
               no
               ?
            
          
           
           
             And
             humbly
             demand
             your
             Lordships
             Judgments
             upon
             these
             Points
             ,
             whether
             it
             be
             so
             or
             no
             ?
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               Has
               your
               Lordship
               any
               more
               to
               say
               ?
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               Stafford
               .
            
             
               No
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               I
               submit
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               desire
               your
               Judgment
               in
               these
               Points
               .
            
             
               Then
               the
               Lords
               adjourned
               into
               the
               Parliament
               Chamber
               ,
               and
               the
               Committee
               of
               Commons
               returned
               to
               their
               own
               House
               ;
               and
               the
               Speaker
               having
               reassumed
               the
               Chair
               ,
               the
               whole
               Body
               of
               the
               House
               went
               with
               their
               Speaker
               to
               the
               Bar
               of
               the
               House
               of
               Lords
               ,
               to
               demand
               Judgment
               of
               High
               Treason
               against
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               ,
               upon
               the
               Impeachment
               of
               the
               Commons
               of
               England
               in
               Parliament
               ,
               in
               the
               name
               of
               the
               Commons
               in
               Parliament
               ,
               and
               of
               all
               the
               Commons
               of
               England
               .
            
             
               The
               Commons
               ,
               with
               their
               Speaker
               ,
               went
               back
               to
               their
               House
               .
            
             
               Then
               the
               Lords
               took
               into
               consideration
               what
               Judgment
               was
               to
               be
               given
               upon
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               ,
               and
               it
               was
               moved
               that
               he
               might
               be
               beheaded
               .
               After
               some
               debate
               ,
               the
               Judges
               were
               asked
               ,
               whether
               if
               any
               other
               Judgment
               than
               the
               usual
               Judgment
               for
               High
               Treason
               were
               given
               upon
               him
               ,
               it
               would
               attaint
               his
               Blood
               ?
               The
               Judges
               were
               of
               opinion
               ,
               that
               the
               Judgment
               for
               High
               Treason
               appointed
               by
               Law
               ,
               is
               to
               be
               drawn
               ,
               hanged
               ,
               and
               quartered
               ,
               and
               in
               the
               Courts
               and
               Proceedings
               below
               ,
               they
               can
               take
               no
               notice
               of
               any
               Judgment
               for
               High
               Treason
               ,
               but
               that
               .
            
             
               Then
               Sir
               
                 Creswell
                 Levinz
              
               ,
               the
               Kings
               Attorney-General
               ,
               desired
               to
               be
               heard
               on
               his
               Majesties
               behalf
               ,
               which
               the
               House
               gave
               leave
               for
               him
               to
               be
               ;
               who
               said
               ,
               he
               knew
               no
               other
               Judgment
               by
               Law
               for
               High
               Treason
               ,
               but
               Drawing
               ,
               Hanging
               ,
               and
               Quartering
               ;
               if
               any
               other
               Judgment
               were
               given
               ,
               it
               would
               be
               prejudicial
               to
               His
               Majesty
               ,
               and
               be
               a
               Question
               in
               the
               inferiour
               Courts
               as
               to
               his
               Attainder
               of
               High
               Treason
               .
            
             
               Whereupon
               their
               Lordships
               ordered
               ,
               That
               the
               
                 Lord
                 High
                 Steward
              
               do
               pronounce
               the
               ordinary
               Judgment
               of
               Death
               upon
               the
               Lord
               Viscount
               Stafford
               ,
               as
               the
               Law
               hath
               appointed
               in
               Cases
               of
               High
               Treason
               .
            
             
               And
               a
               Message
               was
               sent
               to
               the
               House
               of
               Commons
               from
               their
               Lordships
               ,
               by
               Sir
               
                 Timothy
                 Baldwyn
              
               and
               Sir
               
                 Samuel
                 Clark.
              
               
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               ,
            
             
               We
               are
               commanded
               by
               the
               Lords
               to
               acquaint
               this
               House
               ,
               That
               their
               Lordships
               are
               going
               presently
               into
               Westminster-Hall
               ,
               to
               give
               Judgment
               against
               William
               Viscount
               Stafford
               .
            
          
           
             
               Mr.
               Speaker
               left
               the
               Chair
               .
            
             
               The
               Committee
               of
               Commons
               appointed
               for
               the
               Management
               of
               the
               Evidence
               against
               the
               Prisoner
               ,
               with
               the
               rest
               of
               the
               Commons
               ,
               went
               into
               Westminster-Hall
               ,
               to
               the
               Court
               there
               erected
               ,
               to
               be
               present
               when
               the
               Lords
               gave
               Judgment
               of
               High
               Treason
               against
               him
               ,
               upon
               the
               Impeachment
               of
               the
               Commons
               of
               England
               .
            
             
             
               After
               a
               short
               time
               their
               Lordships
               were
               adjourned
               into
               Westminster-Hall
               ,
               coming
               in
               their
               former
               Order
               into
               the
               Court
               there
               erected
               ,
               where
               being
               seated
               ,
               and
               the
               
                 Lord
                 High
                 Steward
              
               being
               on
               the
               Wool-sack
               ,
               attended
               by
               Garter
               principal
               King
               of
               Arms
               ,
               the
               Usher
               of
               the
               Black
               Rod
               ,
               Eight
               of
               the
               Serjeants
               at
               Arms
               kneeling
               with
               their
               Maces
               ,
               the
               Ninth
               Macer
               making
               proclamation
               for
               Silence
               ;
               which
               being
               done
               ,
               the
               
                 Lord
                 High
                 Steward
              
               gave
               Judgment
               upon
               the
               Prisoner
               as
               followeth
               .
            
          
           
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         My
                         Lord
                         Stafford
                         ,
                      
                    
                     
                       THat
                       which
                       your
                       Lordship
                       hath
                       said
                       in
                       Arrest
                       of
                       Judgment
                       ,
                       hath
                       been
                       found
                       by
                       my
                       Lords
                       upon
                       due
                       Consideration
                       had
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       to
                       be
                       of
                       no
                       moment
                       at
                       all
                       .
                       It
                       is
                       no
                       Essential
                       part
                       of
                       any
                       Trial
                       ,
                       That
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       should
                       hold
                       up
                       his
                       Hand
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ;
                       there
                       is
                       no
                       Record
                       ever
                       made
                       of
                       it
                       when
                       it
                       is
                       done
                       ;
                       the
                       only
                       use
                       of
                       it
                       is
                       to
                       shew
                       the
                       Court
                       who
                       the
                       Prisoner
                       is
                       ,
                       when
                       that
                       is
                       apparent
                       ,
                       the
                       Court
                       does
                       often
                       proceed
                       against
                       him
                       ,
                       though
                       he
                       refuse
                       to
                       hold
                       up
                       his
                       Hand
                       at
                       the
                       Bar
                       ;
                       therefore
                       the
                       omission
                       of
                       that
                       Ceremony
                       in
                       this
                       Case
                       is
                       no
                       legal
                       Exception
                       ,
                       as
                       all
                       the
                       Judges
                       have
                       declared
                       .
                    
                     
                       And
                       as
                       to
                       the
                       Proviso's
                       in
                       the
                       Statute
                       of
                       the
                       13th
                       .
                       year
                       of
                       this
                       King
                       ,
                       their
                       Lordships
                       do
                       find
                       that
                       they
                       are
                       in
                       no
                       sort
                       applicable
                       to
                       this
                       Case
                       ,
                       forasmuch
                       as
                       the
                       Proceedings
                       against
                       your
                       Lordship
                       are
                       not
                       grounded
                       upon
                       that
                       Statute
                       ,
                       but
                       upon
                       the
                       Statute
                       of
                       the
                       
                         25.
                         
                         E.
                         3.
                      
                       
                       And
                       yet
                       if
                       the
                       Proceedings
                       had
                       been
                       upon
                       the
                       latter
                       Statute
                       ,
                       the
                       Proviso's
                       therein
                       could
                       have
                       done
                       your
                       Lordship
                       no
                       service
                       at
                       all
                       .
                    
                     
                       My
                       part
                       therefore
                       which
                       remains
                       ,
                       is
                       a
                       very
                       sad
                       one
                       :
                       for
                       I
                       never
                       yet
                       gave
                       Sentence
                       of
                       Death
                       upon
                       any
                       man
                       ,
                       and
                       am
                       extremely
                       sorry
                       that
                       I
                       must
                       begin
                       with
                       your
                       Lordship
                       .
                    
                     
                       Who
                       would
                       have
                       thought
                       that
                       a
                       person
                       of
                       your
                       Quality
                       ,
                       of
                       so
                       Noble
                       an
                       Extraction
                       ,
                       of
                       so
                       considerable
                       Estate
                       and
                       Fortune
                       ,
                       so
                       eminent
                       a
                       Sufferer
                       in
                       the
                       late
                       ill
                       Times
                       ,
                       so
                       interested
                       in
                       the
                       Preservation
                       of
                       the
                       Government
                       ,
                       so
                       much
                       obliged
                       to
                       the
                       Moderation
                       of
                       it
                       ,
                       and
                       so
                       personally
                       obliged
                       to
                       the
                       King
                       and
                       his
                       Royal
                       Father
                       for
                       their
                       particular
                       Favours
                       to
                       you
                       ,
                       should
                       ever
                       have
                       entred
                       into
                       so
                       Infernal
                       a
                       Conspiracy
                       as
                       to
                       contrive
                       the
                       Murder
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       the
                       Ruin
                       of
                       the
                       State
                       ,
                       the
                       Subversion
                       of
                       Religion
                       ,
                       and
                       ,
                       as
                       much
                       as
                       in
                       you
                       l●y
                       ,
                       the
                       Destruction
                       of
                       all
                       the
                       Souls
                       and
                       Bodies
                       in
                       three
                       Christian
                       Nations
                       .
                    
                     
                     
                       And
                       yet
                       the
                       Impeachment
                       of
                       the
                       House
                       of
                       Commons
                       amounts
                       to
                       no
                       less
                       a
                       Charge
                       ,
                       and
                       of
                       this
                       Charge
                       their
                       Lordships
                       have
                       found
                       you
                       Guilty
                       .
                    
                     
                       That
                       there
                       hath
                       been
                       a
                       General
                       and
                       Desperate
                       Conspiracy
                       of
                       the
                       Papists
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       the
                       Death
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       hath
                       been
                       all
                       along
                       one
                       chief
                       part
                       of
                       the
                       Conspirators
                       Design
                       ,
                       is
                       now
                       apparent
                       beyond
                       all
                       possibility
                       of
                       doubting
                       .
                    
                     
                       What
                       was
                       the
                       meaning
                       of
                       all
                       those
                       Treatises
                       which
                       were
                       publisht
                       about
                       two
                       years
                       since
                       against
                       the
                       Oath
                       of
                       Allegiance
                       ,
                       in
                       a
                       time
                       when
                       no
                       man
                       dreamt
                       of
                       such
                       a
                       Controversie
                       ?
                       What
                       was
                       the
                       meaning
                       of
                       Father
                       
                       Conyers's
                       Sermon
                       upon
                       the
                       same
                       Subject
                       ,
                       but
                       only
                       because
                       there
                       was
                       a
                       Demonstration
                       of
                       Zeal
                       ,
                       as
                       they
                       call
                       it
                       ,
                       intended
                       against
                       the
                       Person
                       of
                       the
                       King
                       ?
                       which
                       the
                       scruples
                       arising
                       from
                       that
                       Oath
                       did
                       somewhat
                       hinder
                       .
                    
                     
                       To
                       what
                       purpose
                       were
                       all
                       the
                       Correspondencies
                       with
                       Foreign
                       Nations
                       ?
                       The
                       Collections
                       of
                       Money
                       among
                       the
                       Fathers
                       abroad
                       and
                       at
                       home
                       ?
                       What
                       was
                       the
                       meaning
                       of
                       their
                       Governing
                       themselves
                       here
                       by
                       such
                       Advices
                       as
                       came
                       frequently
                       from
                       Paris
                       and
                       
                         Saint
                         Omers
                      
                       ?
                       And
                       how
                       shall
                       we
                       expound
                       that
                       Letter
                       which
                       came
                       from
                       Ireland
                       ,
                       to
                       assure
                       the
                       Fathers
                       here
                       ,
                       that
                       all
                       things
                       were
                       in
                       a
                       readiness
                       there
                       too
                       ,
                       as
                       soon
                       as
                       the
                       Blow
                       should
                       be
                       given
                       ?
                    
                     
                       Does
                       any
                       man
                       now
                       begin
                       to
                       doubt
                       how
                       London
                       came
                       to
                       be
                       Burnt
                       ?
                       Or
                       by
                       what
                       ways
                       and
                       means
                       poor
                       Justice
                       Godfrey
                       fell
                       ?
                       And
                       is
                       it
                       not
                       apparent
                       by
                       these
                       Instances
                       ,
                       that
                       such
                       is
                       the
                       frantick
                       Zeal
                       of
                       some
                       Bigotted
                       Papists
                       ,
                       that
                       they
                       resolve
                       ,
                       No
                       means
                       to
                       advance
                       the
                       Catholick
                       Cause
                       shall
                       be
                       left
                       unattempted
                       ,
                       though
                       it
                       be
                       by
                       Fire
                       and
                       Sword
                       ?
                    
                     
                       My
                       Lord
                       ,
                       As
                       the
                       Plot
                       in
                       General
                       is
                       most
                       manifest
                       ,
                       so
                       your
                       Lordships
                       part
                       in
                       it
                       hath
                       been
                       too
                       too
                       plain
                       .
                       What
                       you
                       did
                       at
                       Paris
                       ,
                       and
                       continued
                       to
                       do
                       at
                       Tixal
                       in
                       Staffordshire
                       ,
                       shews
                       a
                       settled
                       purpose
                       of
                       mind
                       against
                       the
                       King
                       ;
                       and
                       what
                       you
                       said
                       at
                       London
                       touching
                       
                         Honest
                         Will
                      
                       ,
                       shews
                       you
                       were
                       acquainted
                       with
                       that
                       Conspiracy
                       against
                       the
                       Kings
                       Life
                       which
                       was
                       carrying
                       on
                       here
                       too
                       :
                       And
                       in
                       all
                       this
                       there
                       was
                       a
                       great
                       Degree
                       of
                       Malice
                       ;
                       for
                       your
                       Lordship
                       at
                       one
                       time
                       called
                       the
                       King
                       Heretick
                       and
                       Traytor
                       to
                       God
                       ;
                       and
                       at
                       another
                       time
                       you
                       revil'd
                       him
                       for
                       misplacing
                       his
                       Bounty
                       ,
                       and
                       rewarding
                       none
                       but
                       Traytors
                       and
                       Rebels
                       .
                    
                     
                     
                       
                         And
                         thus
                         you
                         see
                         that
                         which
                         the
                      
                       Wise
                       man
                       
                         forewarn'd
                         you
                         of
                         is
                         come
                         upon
                         you
                         ,
                      
                       Curse
                       not
                       the
                       King
                       ,
                       no
                       not
                       in
                       thy
                       heart
                       :
                       for
                       the
                       Birds
                       of
                       the
                       Air
                       shall
                       reveal
                       ,
                       and
                       that
                       which
                       hath
                       wings
                       will
                       declare
                       the
                       matter
                       .
                    
                     
                       Three
                       things
                       I
                       shall
                       presume
                       to
                       recommend
                       to
                       your
                       Lordships
                       consideration
                       .
                       In
                       the
                       first
                       place
                       ,
                       Your
                       Lordship
                       now
                       sees
                       how
                       it
                       hath
                       pleased
                       God
                       to
                       leave
                       you
                       so
                       far
                       to
                       your self
                       ,
                       that
                       you
                       are
                       fallen
                       into
                       the
                       snare
                       ,
                       and
                       into
                       the
                       pit
                       ,
                       into
                       that
                       very
                       pit
                       which
                       you
                       were
                       digging
                       for
                       others
                       .
                       Consider
                       therefore
                       ,
                       that
                       God
                       Almighty
                       never
                       yet
                       left
                       any
                       man
                       ,
                       who
                       did
                       not
                       first
                       leave
                       him
                       .
                    
                     
                       In
                       the
                       next
                       place
                       ,
                       Think
                       a
                       little
                       better
                       of
                       it
                       than
                       hitherto
                       you
                       have
                       done
                       ,
                       what
                       kind
                       of
                       Religion
                       that
                       is
                       in
                       which
                       the
                       Blind
                       Guides
                       have
                       been
                       able
                       to
                       lead
                       you
                       on
                       into
                       so
                       much
                       ruin
                       and
                       destruction
                       as
                       is
                       now
                       like
                       to
                       befall
                       you
                       .
                    
                     
                       In
                       the
                       last
                       place
                       ,
                       I
                       pray
                       your
                       Lordship
                       to
                       consider
                       ,
                       That
                       true
                       Repentance
                       is
                       never
                       too
                       late
                       .
                       A
                       devout
                       penitential
                       sorrow
                       ,
                       joyn'd
                       with
                       an
                       humble
                       and
                       hearty
                       Confession
                       ,
                       is
                       of
                       mighty
                       power
                       and
                       efficacy
                       both
                       with
                       God
                       and
                       man.
                       
                    
                     
                       There
                       have
                       been
                       some
                       of
                       late
                       ,
                       who
                       have
                       refus'd
                       to
                       give
                       God
                       the
                       Glory
                       of
                       his
                       Justice
                       by
                       acknowledging
                       the
                       Crimes
                       for
                       which
                       they
                       were
                       condemned
                       ;
                       nay
                       ,
                       who
                       have
                       been
                       taught
                       to
                       believe
                       ,
                       that
                       't
                       is
                       a
                       mortal
                       Sin
                       to
                       confess
                       that
                       Crime
                       in
                       publick
                       ,
                       for
                       which
                       they
                       have
                       been
                       absolv'd
                       in
                       private
                       ;
                       and
                       so
                       have
                       not
                       dar'd
                       to
                       give
                       God
                       that
                       Glory
                       which
                       otherwise
                       they
                       would
                       have
                       done
                       .
                    
                     
                       God
                       forbid
                       your
                       Lordship
                       should
                       rest
                       upon
                       Forms
                       ;
                       God
                       forbid
                       your
                       Lordship
                       should
                       be
                       found
                       among
                       the
                       number
                       of
                       those
                       poor
                       mistaken
                       souls
                       whom
                       the
                       first
                       thing
                       that
                       undeceives
                       is
                       Death
                       it self
                       .
                    
                     
                       Perhaps
                       your
                       Lordship
                       may
                       not
                       much
                       esteem
                       the
                       Prayers
                       of
                       those
                       whom
                       you
                       have
                       long
                       been
                       taught
                       to
                       miscal
                       Hereticks
                       :
                       But
                       whether
                       you
                       do
                       or
                       no
                       ,
                       I
                       am
                       to
                       assure
                       your
                       Lordship
                       ,
                       That
                       all
                       my
                       Lords
                       here
                       ,
                       even
                       they
                       that
                       have
                       condemned
                       you
                       ,
                       will
                       never
                       cease
                       to
                       pray
                       for
                       you
                       ,
                       that
                       the
                       end
                       of
                       your
                       life
                       may
                       be
                       Christian
                       and
                       Pious
                       ,
                       how
                       Tragical
                       soever
                       the
                       means
                       are
                       that
                       must
                       bring
                       you
                       thither
                       .
                    
                     
                       And
                       now
                       my
                       Lord
                       ,
                       this
                       is
                       the
                       last
                       time
                       that
                       I
                       can
                       call
                       you
                       My
                       Lord
                       ;
                       for
                       the
                       next
                       words
                       I
                       am
                       to
                       speak
                       will
                       Attaint
                       you
                       .
                    
                     
                     
                       The
                       Judgment
                       of
                       the
                       Law
                       is
                       ,
                       and
                       this
                       Court
                       doth
                       Award
                       ,
                       That
                    
                     
                       
                         YOU
                         go
                         to
                         the
                         place
                         from
                         whence
                         you
                         came
                         ;
                         from
                         thence
                         you
                         must
                         be
                         drawn
                         upon
                         a
                         Hurdle
                         to
                         the
                         place
                         of
                         Execution
                         ;
                         When
                         you
                         come
                         there
                         ,
                         you
                         must
                         be
                         hang'd
                         by
                         the
                         Neck
                         ,
                         but
                         not
                         till
                         you
                         are
                         dead
                         ;
                         for
                         you
                         must
                         be
                         cut
                         down
                         alive
                         ;
                         your
                         Privy-Members
                         must
                         be
                         cut
                         off
                         ,
                         and
                         your
                         Bowels
                         ript
                         up
                         before
                         your
                         Face
                         ,
                         and
                         thrown
                         into
                         the
                         Fire
                         ;
                         Then
                         your
                         Head
                         must
                         be
                         severed
                         from
                         your
                         Body
                         ,
                         and
                         your
                         Body
                         divided
                         into
                         four
                         Quarters
                         ;
                         and
                         these
                         must
                         be
                         at
                         the
                         disposal
                         of
                         the
                         King.
                         
                      
                    
                     
                       And
                       God
                       Almighty
                       be
                       merciful
                       to
                       your
                       Soul.
                       
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
               Prisoner
               .
            
             
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               humbly
               beseech
               you
               give
               me
               leave
               to
               speak
               a
               few
               words
               :
               I
               do
               give
               your
               Lordships
               hearty
               Thanks
               for
               all
               your
               Favours
               to
               me
               .
               I
               do
               here
               in
               the
               presence
               of
               God
               Almighty
               declare
               ,
               I
               have
               no
               Malice
               in
               my
               Heart
               to
               them
               that
               have
               condemned
               me
               ;
               I
               know
               not
               who
               they
               are
               ,
               nor
               desire
               to
               know
               ;
               I
               forgive
               them
               all
               ,
               and
               beseech
               your
               Lordships
               all
               to
               pray
               for
               me
               .
               My
               Lords
               ,
               I
               have
               one
               humble
               Request
               to
               make
               to
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               and
               that
               is
               ,
               my
               Lords
               ,
               That
               the
               little
               short
               time
               I
               have
               to
               live
               a
               Prisoner
               ,
               I
               may
               not
               be
               a
               close
               Prisoner
               ,
               as
               I
               have
               been
               of
               late
               ,
               but
               that
               Mr.
               Lieutenant
               may
               have
               an
               Order
               that
               my
               Wife
               and
               Children
               and
               Friends
               may
               come
               at
               me
               .
               I
               do
               humbly
               beg
               this
               Favour
               of
               your
               Lordships
               ,
               which
               I
               hope
               you
               will
               be
               pleased
               to
               give
               me
               .
            
          
           
             
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
               .
            
             
               My
               Lord
               Stafford
               ,
               I
               believe
               I
               may
               ,
               with
               my
               Lords
               leave
               ,
               tell
               you
               one
               thing
               further
               ,
               That
               my
               Lords
               ,
               as
               they
               proceed
               with
               Rigour
               of
               Justice
               ,
               so
               they
               proceed
               with
               all
               the
               Mercy
               and
               Compassion
               that
               may
               be
               ;
               And
               therefore
               my
               Lords
               will
               be
               humble
               Suitors
               to
               the
               King
               ,
               that
               He
               will
               remit
               all
               the
               Punishment
               but
               the
               taking
               off
               your
               Head.
               
            
          
           
             
               Prisoner
               
            
             
               (
               Weeping
               )
               My
               Lords
               ,
               your
               Justice
               does
               not
               make
               me
               cry
               ,
               but
               your
               Goodness
               .
            
          
           
             Then
             the
             
               Lord
               High
               Steward
            
             broke
             his
             Staff
             ,
             and
             the
             Lords
             adjourned
             into
             the
             Parliament
             Chamber
             ,
             and
             the
             Commons
             returned
             to
             their
             House
             ,
             and
             the
             Prisoner
             with
             the
             Ax
             born
             before
             him
             with
             the
             Edg
             towards
             him
             (
             it
             being
             carried
             contrarily
             during
             his
             Trial
             )
             was
             sent
             back
             to
             the
             Tower.
             
          
           
             His
             Majesty
             afterwards
             ordered
             the
             Lord
             High
             Chancellor
             to
             issue
             out
             under
             the
             Great
             Seal
             of
             England
             the
             following
             Writs
             for
             Executing
             the
             said
             late
             Viscount
             Stafford
             ;
             the
             first
             being
             to
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             ,
             to
             deliver
             him
             on
             the
             Twenty
             ninth
             of
             December
             1680.
             between
             Nine
             and
             Eleven
             a
             Clock
             in
             the
             Forenoon
             ,
             at
             the
             usual
             place
             without
             the
             Tower-Gate
             ,
             to
             the
             Sheriffs
             of
             London
             and
             Middlesex
             ;
             and
             the
             other
             being
             for
             them
             then
             and
             there
             to
             receive
             him
             into
             their
             Custody
             ,
             and
             to
             lead
             him
             to
             the
             usual
             place
             upon
             Tower-Hill
             ,
             and
             there
             to
             cause
             his
             Head
             to
             be
             cut
             off
             ,
             and
             severed
             from
             his
             Body
             :
             Which
             Writs
             were
             in
             Form
             following
             .
          
           
             
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       CAROLUS
                       Secundus
                       Dei
                       gratia
                       
                         Angliae
                         ,
                         Scotiae
                         ,
                         Franciae
                         &
                         Hiberniae
                      
                       Rex
                       ,
                       fidei
                       defensor
                       ,
                       &c.
                       Locumtenenti
                       Turris
                       nostrae
                       London
                       salutem
                       ;
                    
                  
                   
                     Cum
                     Willus
                     Vicecomes
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     per
                     Communes
                     Regni
                     nostri
                     Angliae
                     in
                     Parliamento
                     assemblat
                     '
                     ,
                     de
                     alta
                     proditione
                     ,
                     necnon
                     diversis
                     aliis
                     criminibus
                     &
                     offensis
                     per
                     ipsum
                     perpetrat
                     '
                     &
                     commissis
                     ,
                     impetit
                     '
                     fuit
                     ;
                     Ac
                     superinde
                     per
                     Dominos
                     Temporales
                     in
                     praesenti
                     Parliamento
                     nostro
                     convent
                     '
                     ,
                     triat
                     '
                     convict
                     '
                     ;
                     &
                     debita
                     juris
                     forma
                     attinct
                     '
                     fuit
                     ;
                     &
                     morti
                     adjucat
                     '
                     existit
                     :
                     Cujus
                     quidem
                     Judicii
                     executio
                     adhuc
                     restat
                     facienda
                     .
                     Cumque
                     praedictus
                     Vicecomes
                     Stafford
                     in
                     Turri
                     nostra
                     London
                     ,
                     sub
                     custodia
                     tua
                     detent
                     '
                     existit
                     :
                     Precipimus
                     tibi
                     &
                     per
                     presentes
                     firmiter
                     injungendo
                     mandamus
                     ,
                     quod
                     in
                     &
                     super
                     vicesimum
                     nonum
                     diem
                     instantis
                     mensis
                     Decembris
                     ,
                     inter
                     horas
                     nonam
                     ,
                     &
                     undecimam
                     ,
                     ante
                     Meridiem
                     ejusdem
                     diei
                     ,
                     ipsum
                     Vicecomitem
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     usque
                     locum
                     usualem
                     extra
                     portam
                     Turris
                     predictae
                     ducas
                     ;
                     ac
                     ipsum
                     ,
                     Vicecomitibus
                     Civitatis
                     nostrae
                     
                       London
                       &
                       Middlesex
                    
                     ,
                     adtunc
                     &
                     ibidem
                     deliberes
                     :
                     Quibus
                     quidem
                     Vicecomitibus
                     ,
                     nos
                     per
                     aliud
                     breve
                     eis
                     inde
                     direct
                     '
                     ,
                     precipimus
                     predictum
                     Vicecomitem
                     Stafford
                     adtunc
                     &
                     ibidem
                     recipere
                     ,
                     ut
                     fiat
                     executio
                     Judicii
                     predicti
                     ,
                     modo
                     &
                     forma
                     prout
                     dictis
                     Vicecomitibus
                     
                       London
                       &
                       Middlesex
                    
                     ,
                     per
                     aliud
                     breve
                     nostrum
                     predictum
                     precepimus
                     :
                     Et
                     hoc
                     nullatenus
                     omittas
                     ,
                     sub
                     periculo
                     incumbente
                     ,
                     Aliquo
                     Judicio
                     ,
                     Lege
                     ,
                     Ordinatione
                     ,
                     seu
                     Mandato
                     praeantea
                     habit
                     '
                     ,
                     fact
                     '
                     ,
                     ordinat
                     '
                     ,
                     seu
                     dat'
                     in
                     contrarium
                     non
                     obstante
                     .
                     Teste
                     meipso
                     apud
                     Westm
                     .
                     decimo
                     octavo
                     die
                     Decembris
                     ,
                     Anno
                     regni
                     nostri
                     tricesimo
                     secundo
                     .
                  
                   
                     
                       BARKER
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       CAROLUS
                       Secundus
                       Dei
                       gratia
                       
                         Angliae
                         ,
                         Scotiae
                         ,
                         Franciae
                         &
                         Hiberniae
                      
                       Rex
                       ,
                       fidei
                       defensor
                       ,
                       &c.
                       
                       Vic.
                       London
                       &
                       Vic.
                       Middlesex
                       salutem
                       :
                    
                  
                   
                     Cum
                     Will.
                     Vicecomes
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     per
                     Communes
                     regni
                     nostri
                     Angliae
                     in
                     Parliamento
                     assemblat
                     '
                     ,
                     de
                     alta
                     proditione
                     ,
                     necnon
                     diversis
                     aliis
                     criminibus
                     &
                     offenfis
                     per
                     ipsum
                     perpetrat
                     '
                     &
                     commissis
                     impetit
                     '
                     fuit
                     ;
                     Ac
                     superinde
                     per
                     Dominos
                     Temporales
                     in
                     presenti
                     Parliamento
                     nostro
                     convent
                     '
                     ,
                     triatus
                     ,
                     convict
                     '
                     &
                     debita
                     juris
                     forma
                     ,
                     attinct
                     '
                     fuit
                     ,
                     &
                     morti
                     adjudicat
                     '
                     existit
                     :
                     Cujus
                     quidem
                     Judicii
                     executio
                     adhuc
                     restat
                     facienda
                     ;
                     Precipimus
                     vobis
                     ,
                     &
                     per
                     presentes
                     firmiter
                     injungendo
                     mandamus
                     ,
                     quod
                     in
                     &
                     super
                     vicesimum
                     nonum
                     diem
                     hujus
                     instantis
                     Decembris
                     ,
                     inter
                     horas
                     nonam
                     ,
                     &
                     undecimam
                     ,
                     ante
                     meridiem
                     ejusdem
                     diei
                     ,
                     dictum
                     Vicecomitem
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     extra
                     Portam
                     Turris
                     nostrae
                     London
                     ,
                     vobis
                     tunc
                     &
                     ibidem
                     deliberandum
                     ,
                     prout
                     per
                     aliud
                     breve
                     Locumtenenti
                     Turris
                     nostrae
                     London
                     directum
                     ,
                     precepimus
                     ,
                     in
                     custodiam
                     vestram
                     adtunc
                     &
                     ibidem
                     recipiatis
                     ,
                     &
                     ipsum
                     sic
                     in
                     custodia
                     vestra
                     existentem
                     ,
                     statim
                     usque
                     usualem
                     locum
                     super
                     le
                     Tower-hill
                     ducatis
                     ;
                     Ac
                     caput
                     ipsius
                     Willi.
                     Vicecomitis
                     Stafford
                     ,
                     adtunc
                     &
                     ibidem
                     amputari
                     ,
                     ac
                     a
                     corpore
                     suo
                     omnino
                     separari
                     faciatis
                     ,
                     aliquo
                     Judicio
                     ,
                     Lege
                     ,
                     Ordinatione
                     ,
                     seu
                     Mandato
                     praeantea
                     habit
                     '
                     ,
                     fact
                     '
                     ,
                     ordinat
                     '
                     ,
                     seu
                     dat'
                     in
                     contrarium
                     ,
                     non
                     obstante
                     :
                     Et
                     hoc
                     (
                     sub
                     periculo
                     incumbente
                     )
                     nullatenus
                     omittatis
                     ;
                     Teste
                     meipso
                     apud
                     Westm
                     .
                     decimo
                     octavo
                     die
                     Decembris
                     ,
                     Anno
                     regni
                     nostri
                     tricesimo
                     secundo
                     .
                  
                   
                     
                       BARKER
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             There
             were
             two
             Writs
             to
             the
             Sheriffs
             both
             alike
             verbatim
             ,
             one
             delivered
             in
             London
             ,
             the
             other
             in
             Middlesex
             .
          
           
             Whereupon
             the
             Sheriffs
             doubting
             whether
             that
             was
             a
             sufficient
             Authority
             for
             them
             to
             execute
             the
             Prisoner
             by
             Beheading
             only
             ,
             the
             Sentence
             of
             Death
             being
             otherwise
             given
             ,
             petitioned
             the
             Lords
             in
             Parliament
             to
             take
             the
             Premises
             into
             consideration
             ,
             and
             to
             make
             such
             Order
             as
             should
             be
             agreeable
             to
             Right
             and
             Justice
             ,
             as
             by
             the
             following
             Petition
             appears
             .
             
               
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         TO
                         THE
                         Right
                         Honourable
                         the
                         LORDS
                         TEMPORAL
                         in
                         PARLIAMENT
                         Assembled
                         ;
                      
                    
                     
                       The
                       Humble
                       Petition
                       of
                       
                         Slingsby
                         Bethel
                      
                       
                         Esq
                      
                       and
                       
                         Henry
                         Cornish
                      
                       
                         Esq
                      
                       Sheriffs
                       of
                       London
                       and
                       Middlesex
                       .
                    
                     
                       Sheweth
                       ,
                    
                     
                       THAT
                       your
                       Petitioners
                       have
                       received
                       a
                       Writ
                       under
                       the
                       Great
                       Seal
                       of
                       England
                       ,
                       Reciting
                       ,
                       that
                       Judgment
                       had
                       been
                       given
                       by
                       your
                       Lordships
                       against
                       William
                       Viscount
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       for
                       High
                       Treason
                       ,
                       and
                       diverse
                       other
                       Crimes
                       and
                       Offences
                       ,
                       upon
                       the
                       Impeachment
                       of
                       the
                       Commons
                       in
                       Parliament
                       Assembled
                       ,
                       and
                       commanding
                       your
                       Petitioners
                       to
                       cause
                       the
                       said
                       Viscount
                       Staffords
                       Head
                       to
                       be
                       Severed
                       from
                       his
                       Body
                       upon
                       the
                       Twenty
                       Ninth
                       Day
                       of
                       this
                       instant
                       December
                       ,
                       notwithstanding
                       any
                       Judgment
                       ,
                       Law
                       ,
                       Ordinance
                       ,
                       or
                       Command
                       to
                       the
                       contrary
                       .
                    
                     
                       That
                       your
                       Petitioners
                       have
                       not
                       as
                       yet
                       Received
                       any
                       Command
                       from
                       your
                       Lordships
                       for
                       Executing
                       the
                       said
                       Judgment
                       .
                    
                     
                       May
                       it
                       therefore
                       please
                       your
                       Lordships
                       to
                       take
                       the
                       Premisses
                       into
                       Consideration
                       ,
                       and
                       to
                       make
                       such
                       Order
                       therein
                       as
                       shall
                       be
                       agreeable
                       to
                       Right
                       and
                       Justice
                       .
                    
                     
                       
                         And
                         your
                         Petitioners
                         shall
                         always
                         pray
                         ,
                         &c.
                         
                      
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             Upon
             which
             Petition
             the
             Lords
             did
             Declare
             as
             followeth
             :
             
               
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         
                           Die
                           Martis
                           21
                           Decembris
                           .
                           1680.
                           
                        
                      
                    
                     
                       UPon
                       Application
                       from
                       the
                       Sheriffs
                       of
                       London
                       and
                       Middlesex
                       ,
                       making
                       some
                       Scruples
                       concerning
                       the
                       Execution
                       of
                       the
                       late
                       Lord
                       Viscount
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       which
                       were
                       sound
                       by
                       this
                       House
                       to
                       be
                       unnecessary
                       ,
                       This
                       House
                       do
                       Declare
                       ,
                       That
                       the
                       Kings
                       Writ
                       ought
                       to
                       be
                       obeyed
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
           
             The
             said
             Sheriffs
             likewise
             made
             Application
             to
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             upon
             the
             aforesaid
             matter
             ,
             who
             made
             the
             following
             Resolve
             .
             
               
                 
                   
                     
                       
                         
                           Die
                           Jovis
                           23
                           Decembris
                           .
                           1680.
                           
                        
                      
                    
                     
                       REsolved
                       ,
                       &c.
                       
                       That
                       this
                       House
                       is
                       content
                       that
                       the
                       Sheriffs
                       of
                       London
                       and
                       Middlesex
                       do
                       Execute
                       William
                       late
                       Viscount
                       Stafford
                       ,
                       by
                       Severing
                       his
                       Head
                       from
                       his
                       Body
                       only
                       .
                    
                  
                
              
            
          
        
         
           
             
               
                 
                   Wednesday
                   December
                
                 29.
                 1680.
                 
              
            
          
           
             ABout
             the
             hour
             of
             Ten
             in
             the
             Morning
             ,
             the
             Sheriffs
             received
             the
             Prisoner
             ,
             according
             to
             the
             Command
             of
             the
             Writs
             ,
             from
             the
             Lieutenant
             of
             the
             Tower
             ,
             and
             brought
             him
             upon
             the
             Scaffold
             ,
             which
             was
             erected
             on
             Tower-Hill
             .
             The
             Prisoner
             took
             a
             Paper
             out
             of
             his
             pocket
             ,
             and
             (
             putting
             off
             his
             Hat
             )
             read
             it
             as
             his
             Speech
             ,
             (
             which
             the
             very
             same
             day
             ,
             before
             Two
             of
             the
             Clock
             ,
             came
             out
             in
             Print
             as
             his
             Speech
             )
             and
             he
             delivered
             divers
             Copies
             signed
             by
             himself
             ,
             to
             Mr.
             Sheriff
             Cornish
             ,
             and
             other
             Gentlemen
             about
             him
             .
             He
             then
             desired
             he
             might
             have
             liberty
             to
             pray
             in
             his
             own
             way
             ;
             which
             being
             granted
             ,
             he
             kneeled
             down
             by
             the
             Block
             ,
             and
             taking
             out
             of
             his
             pocket
             another
             Paper
             ,
             he
             read
             a
             Latin
             Prayer
             ;
             which
             done
             ,
             he
             gave
             the
             Paper
             to
             Mr.
             Sheriff
             Bethel
             ;
             and
             then
             spoke
             to
             the
             People
             about
             the
             Scaffold
             
             to
             this
             Effect
             :
             
               God
               bless
               you
               all
               ,
               Gentlemen
               ;
               God
               preserve
               His
               Majesty
               ,
               He
               is
               a●good
               a
               Prince
               as
               ever
               govern'd
               you
               ;
               Obey
               Him
               as
               faithfully
               as
               I
               have
               done
               ;
               and
               God
               bless
               you
               all
               ,
               Gentlemen
               .
            
             Then
             he
             stripp'd
             himself
             to
             his
             Wastcoat
             ,
             and
             after
             some
             ●ew
             short
             private
             Discourses
             with
             his
             Friends
             ,
             he
             laid
             down
             his
             Neck
             on
             the
             Block
             ,
             and
             stretched
             himself
             .
             The
             Executioner
             being
             demanded
             by
             the
             Sheriffs
             whether
             he
             had
             any
             Sign
             ;
             he
             answered
             ,
             No.
             Then
             the
             Prisoner
             raised
             up
             his
             Head
             ,
             and
             said
             ;
             He
             had
             no
             Sign
             to
             give
             ,
             but
             the
             Executioner
             might
             take
             his
             opportunity
             ;
             and
             laid
             his
             Neck
             on
             the
             Block
             again
             .
             After
             which
             ,
             in
             a
             short
             time
             ,
             the
             Executioner
             did
             his
             Office
             ,
             by
             Severing
             his
             Head
             from
             his
             Body
             ,
             and
             holding
             up
             the
             Head
             in
             his
             Hand
             ,
             carried
             it
             about
             the
             Scafsold
             ,
             shewing
             it
             to
             the
             People
             ,
             and
             saying
             ,
             
               Here
               is
               the
               Head
               of
               a
               Traitor
               .
            
             The
             Body
             was
             put
             into
             a
             Coffin
             ,
             and
             conveyed
             to
             the
             Tower.
             
          
           
             FINIS
             .