Delenda Carthago, or, The true interest of England in relation to France and Holland Leslie, Charles, 1650-1722. 1695 Approx. 22 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A59469 Wing S2890 ESTC R12938 12426568 ocm 12426568 61883 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A59469) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 61883) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 297:11) Delenda Carthago, or, The true interest of England in relation to France and Holland Leslie, Charles, 1650-1722. Shaftesbury, Anthony Ashley Cooper, Earl of, 1621-1683. 8 p. s.n., [London : 1695] Caption title. Attributed to Charles Leslie. Cf. BM. "Authorship falsely assigned to Anthony Ashley Cooper, the first Earl of Shaftesbury"--NUC pre-1956 (Supplement). Reproduction of original in Columbia University Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Great Britain -- Foreign economic relations -- France. Great Britain -- Foreign relations -- Netherlands. France -- Foreign economic relations -- Great Britain. Netherlands -- Foreign economic relations -- Great Britain. 2005-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-03 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Delenda Carthago . OR , The True Interest of England , in Relation to France and Holland . AS the Happiness of our Scituation secures us from the Invasion of any , who are not our Masters at Sea : The same Reason makes it altogether against the Interest of England , to seek to enlarge her Dominions by Conquest , upon the Continent : For the Charge of Transporting , besides the Accidents of the Sea , is such Odds , as she can never wage an equal War. The Truth of this will appear to any who shall read the Wars of England in France , the vast Expence of Blood and Treasure , the many Hinderances and Disappointments in sending our Reliefs by Sea ; and , after the most prosperous Successes , the little Effect and Final Loss of all . Which indeed prov'd our greatest Benefit , by sending us to live at Home . And I think it very plain that the loss of Callice , and ridding our Hands of all the Seeds of War , the Garrisons we had in France , was exceedingly for the Advantage of England : We call'd them Bridles upon France , but they prov'd Sponges to us , and drain'd more Money from us ( and sometimes Men ) than , if employ'd upon the Fleet , would have enabled us to bridle France , and the Seas , and to have extended the Privilege of the Flag to both Worlds . The Fleet are the Walls of England . To Command at Sea , not to make Conquests by Land , is the true Interest of England . And the same Reason makes it the Interest of France , not to meddle with us . He can extend his Conquests with fifty times less Expence and Hazard upon the Continent . Nor does he desire more of England than not to hurt him . Accordingly we find that France has always endeavoured to live well with England ; and indeed they have courted us , and always shewed a more particular Kindness to the English Gentry , than to any other Nations , who travelled thither for their Education . And when we were lately obliged to declare War against them ( for we began with them ) yet it was not for any Injury they had done to us , nor had we one to instance . And by the Issue of all the Wars that England ever yet had against France , it plainly appears to be the Interest of England to have no War with France ; at least never to carry our Arms into France . For suppose the best , the utmost you can propose , even to conquer France , as we did once before : How shall we keep it ; What Armies of English must we always have there to prevent their Rebelling ? Would transplanting of all England serve the Turn ? Sure such a Conquest would drain and ruine England , as the Indies have Spain . But suppose we had it and could keep it : Our King would make his Residence in France , and England would become a Province like Flanders , when their Earls came to be Kings of Spain ; Or as Scotland is now to England , which was wisely foreseen by Hen. 7. when he , for that very Reason , married his Eldest Daughter to Scotland , and his Younger to France ; thinking it much more the Advantage of England to have the Accession to Scotland than of France ; the Greater always swallowing up the Less , as Rivers are lost in the Sea. What then is the Interest of England as to France ? Surely , to grow great at Sea , and command the Trade , which is our Greatness ; but , by all means , to let alone their Continent ; where a Conquest would prove our own Destruction . Let us now look how our Interest stands as to Holland . It is Interest that governs Kingdoms . Nations do not fall in Love with one another , as particular Persons do for their Beauty . The Publick still moves by Interest , and that will never lye . The Interest and Life of Holland , all the World knows is Trade . It is Advantageous to others ; but it is N●c●ss●ry to them . Their Continent cannot make them live : Therefore whoever rivals their Trade must be irreconcilable to them ; nor can they ever be true and hearty to such . England has been their only mighty Rival for the Trade of the VVorld : VVhence that wise Chanc●llor of England , the Earl of Shaftsbury , in his Speech to the Parliament , 5. Feb. 1672. lays it down as a Maxim never to be forgot in England . Let this be remembred ( saith he ) The States of Holland are England's eternal Enemy , both by Interest and Inclination : And he gives the Reason , because we are their only Competitor for Trade and Power at Sea , and who only stand in their Way to an universal Empire , as great as Rome . Then he shews how true they have been to their Interests , in working all the Miscief they could to England , not only by violent , but false and treacherous Ways : And he instances in their Breach of Treaties , both in the Surinam and East-India Business ; and their heighth of Insolence , to deny us the Honour and Right of the Flag ; and that , though it had been owned by them in the Treaty of Breda , yet they disputed the King's Title to it in all the Courts of Christendom , and made great Offers to the French King , if he would stand by them against us . Lastly , He compares them to Carthage ; and us to Rome , that is , that it was impossible both should stand upon a Ballance ; that if we do not master their Trade , they will ours . They or We must truckle . One must and will give the Law to the other . There 's no Compounding , where the Contest is for the T●ade of the whole World. No Treaties , no Alliances will , or ever did bind them to us , longer than till they could make an Advantage by us . After a firm Treaty in 1619 , ensued the Murder of the Engl●sh at Amboyna in November 1624 , and other Depredations in the East Indies . You may see a whole History of their Breach of Treaties , and most Barbarous and Perfidious Cruelties upon the English , By Dr. Stubbe , Printed in 1673. Since K. James the First ( says he ) reigned in Great Britain , they have neither kept any League in reference to Trade and Commerce : That rich Trade we had into the East Indies , at Japan , Amboyna , Banda and the Moluccoes , is totally ruined : Our Islands of Poleran , Palaway , Lantere unjustly seiz'd into their hands ; and the Damages we suffered there are computed in 1653 , at 1656233 l. 15 s. and we are now totally excluded those Seas by these Hollanders — Their Usurpations there have been accompanied with Barbarities and Outrages — Besides the Cruelties of Amboyna , they exercised innumerable others , as appears by the Depositions from 1616 to 1620 : Printed at London A. D. 1622. The English Ships being taken and their Goods confiscated , the Captains , Souldiers , Factors and Mariners were made Prisoners , clogg'd with Irons , kept in Stocks , bound Hand and Foot , tied to Stakes , haling and pulling them with Ropes about their Necks , spurning them like Dogs , throwing them headlong down Rocks and Clifts , murthering some , and starving others to death : Some were landed among the Indians , where they found better Usage among the Paynims , than the Protestants of Holland : Some were so lodged , that they were forced to tumble in their own Excrements , not being permitted to go forth to ease themselves . Lawrence Ryall , the Dutch General caused Grates and Cages to be made , and carried the English therein fettered , and shewed them triumphantly to the Indians , at every Port , saying , Behold and see , here is the People of that Nation , whose King you care so much for ; no● you may see ho● kindly we use his Subjects . They have robbed the Indians under English Colours , thereby to incense them against us , and to destroy our Trade there . They have counterfeited the Coin of other Nations , and then def●med the English for it . The Tr●fftick of Ch●na and P●rfi●● &c was ruined by their seizing and destroying the ●●p● of Sir Wm. Court●●n and his Partners . We did by our Ambassador S 〈…〉 . Johns , dem●nd ●atisfaction for all these Damages , and charged them with the Bloud of the English that had ●een slaughtered by them in the K●tharin● and Dragon , in these words . Though ●e cannot p●si●●vely prove , yet by good Circumstances , we can make it appear , that you did d●stroy the Ships Dragon and Katherine , though the Ships and M●n were never heard of , yet the Guns and Goods of those Ships have been found in your Countrey , which does give us some confidence to believe you did destroy the Men and Ships . And we are informed that some of your own Countreymen when they lay on their Death Beds , did make Confession of the Cruel Murthers and Seisures : How that they met them going to the Cape of Good Hope , and and after a friendly Salutation , the Dutch invited the English Commanders aboard ; and after they had been feasted , they told them , that it was sitting They should drink Lustick , as well as eat Lustick , and causing them to be tied back to back , they were cast into the Sea. And in the Evening when the English expected the Return of their Commanders and their Crews , the Dutch with their own and English Boats , went aboard the English Ships , and served every Man in the same manner : and having taken out what Goods and Guns they thought fit , the Ships were sunk by them ; the which were worth according to the Invoice , had they come to the Port of London , 170000 l. In Guiney and Brasile we have been treated with the same Usage : And the Dutch have been always either acting Open Hostilities , or , which is worse , destroying the Honour and Renown of our Nation in Spain , Italy , Russia , and all places whither a Dutch-man trades Therefore we were then convinced , That the true way to advance the English Trade , was to reduce the Hollanders to greater Moderation . Much more to the same Purpose you will find in the abovesaid Author , and in many others of the English Nation . But above all things the most astonishing and down right Diabolical , exceeding even the Treacherous and Bloudy Massacre of the English at Ambiyna , being done in time of Peace , and the chief Actors thereof justified and preferred by the States , when Complaint was made against them , and Justice demanded : But it exceeds all this , and all that ever was heard of any Nation which bore the name of Christian ; the Wickedness of all Nations is exceeded by what the Dutch did and still continue to do at Japan . They incensed th● Government there against the Christians who traded thither , representing them as People of dangerous Principles , as to ●overnment , and plotting of Insurrections : Whereby they procured the miserable Slaughter , with horrible Tortures and Torments , of above 400000 Christians in that Kingdom , and denying themselves to be Christians ( wherein some think they told no Lie ) they , by that means , ingross the Trade of that wealthy Island to themselves . And if they can dispense even with their Christianity , to promote their Trade ; what Obligations can we but upon them that will make them false to their Supream God , Interest ? But we need not go so far as the Indies to find Instances of the Designs of Holland to ruine England . There is a surprising Passage in the London-Gaz●tte , 30 th of April 1666 , which is verbatim as follows . At the Sessions in the Old Baily . John Rathbone , an old Army Collonel , William Saunders , H●nry Youcker , Thomas Flint , Thomas Evans , John Myls , William Wascot and John Colé , formerly Officers and Souldiers in the late Rebellion , were Indicted for conspiring the Death of his Majesty , and the Overthrow of the Government ; having laid their Plot and Contrivance , for the Surprisal of the Tower , the killing of his Grace the Ld. General , Sir John Robinson Lieutenant of his Majesty's Tower of London , and Sir Richard Brown , and then to have declared for an equal Division of Lands , &c. The better to ●ffect this Hellish Design , the City was to have been fired , and the Portcullis to have been let down , to keep out all the Assist●nce , the Horse-Guards to have been surprised in the Inns where they were Quartered ; several others having been gained for that purpose . The Tower was accordingly viewed , and its Surprise ordered by Boats over the Moat , and from thence to scale the Wall ; one Alexander , who is not yet taken , had likewise distributed Sums of Money to these Conspirators , and for the carrying on of the Design more effectually , they were told of a Council of the Great ones , that far frequently in London , from whom issued all Orders ; which Council received their Directions from another in Holland , who fate with the States ; and that the 3 d of September was pitched on for the Attempt , as being found by Lilly's Almanack , and a Scheme erected for that purpose , to be a Lucky Day , a Planet then ruling which Prognosticated the downfal of Monarchy . The Evidence against these Persons was very full and clear , and they accordingly found guilty of High Treason . These are the Words of that Gazette ; and let me only mind the Reader , That the City was fired the very Day which was there mentioned ; that is , the Fire began about 12 at Night , the 2 d of September 66 , or early on the 3 d , which was the first Day of the Fire This makes it a Demonstration , that the DutSh Plot , mentioned in that Gazette , could be no Contrivance of the Government , in Odium to the Dutch ; if that could be so much as suggested , or so base an Imputation laid , not only upon the Court but the City it self , which , in her Sessions , should take away the Lives of Men for any such Sham Plot : I say nothing of this can be possible , unless you will suppose , that the Government and the City both designed the burning of the City upon that Day ( and if so they would not have told it ) ; or otherwise that they had the Spirit of Prophesy , to foretel the burning of the City five Months before it came to pass . But these Conspirators had laid their Design , and would not slip that Lucky Day , the 3d of September , on which Oliver conquered first Scotland , at the Battle of Dunbar , and after the Loyal Party in England , at Worcester Fight ; both which happened to be upon the 3d of September , which Oliver reckoned to be his Lucky Day ; and it held so to him to the end : For on that day he brought the greatest Blessing to England that ever Subject did : On that day only he verified what he had so often promised , to relieve England from Tyranny and Arbitrary Power , and to open the way to a Glorious Reformation , all this he performed , for on that day , on his own Lucky Day , he died , or , as his Enthusiast Banditi boasted , was carried , like Elijah , to Heaven in a Whirlwind ; whither that carried him , or whence it was sent , we will not examin ; only we may take notice , That he who raised Rebellion to cure Superstition , observ'd his Lucky Days ; and these Conspirators of whom we are speaking , were some of his Godly Army . These gain'd with Dutch Reformers , not only observe Days , but cast Schemes and go to Fortune-Tellers , any thing — go to the Devil himself , for the Good Old Cause ! The End sanctifies the Means . How far the Devil's Chain may reach , I cannot tell . But if there be such a thing as Spells , to cause Men Love or Hate ; most certainly the Dutch h●ve made us drunk with it : Not only to Love and Dote upon them , who , at this very Day , use all our Men like Doggs , who go over thither to fight for their Countrey ( which they will not do themselves ) and Clip our Money publickly , which , when they have done , they pay to the English only ( for no other Nation will take it from them ) by the Coyn , and will receive it from them only by the Weight ; which is proclaiming us for Fools to our Faces : And as such , they have begg'd us . To fall in Love with these Dutch , who use us ten times worse , when we fight for them , and take less care of our Sick and Wounded , than the French against whom we fight ! And yet to hate and abhor the French , the more they court us ! As if it were the Nature as it is the Character somewhere given of an Englishman , to be won by Injuries , and provok'd by Civilities , comparing them to their own Countrey Mastiffs . What is it else can make us have such an unaccountable Hatred to the French , for which we can give no Reason , they having never done us any hurt , but when we began , and forc'd them to it , as at present ? And yet , to doat , as unaccountably , upon the Dutch , who never yet did us any Good , or neglected doing us all the Mischief they could , when it was in their Power ? If the like Evidence could be produc'd against the French for the Burning of London , as what is here brought against the Dutch ? — But whether it were French or Dutch , London is now fill'd with them both , and there have been more Fires of late in London than usually has been known . There were no less than five Fires in it upon Sunday 18 Feb 94. And if there be False Play , it must be English , French , or Dutch. But the Dutch will never do us Hurt , as surely as they never did ; we must not suspect them : There is some Witch-Craft in this ! Is it for their Religion that we love the Dutch ? I wish Religion , of any sort had so much Power in England ! But can they be true to Religion , who are content , as in Japan , to renounce their Christianity , to promote their Trade ! Or , which is near the same , to License all Religions , for the same Reason , as in Holland ! To give Mammon the upper Hand of God! It is their Mammon , their Interest ( and they have ever been true to it ) to ruine England . It is neither the Interest of England or France to Invade or Conquer one another ; and they are not the Aggressors . Yet we are irreconcileable to France , and unalterable from Holland ! As Men blind to their Interest , and bent upon their Ruine ! Like the Jews against the Romans , obstinate , though un-equal to the War ! It prov'd Their Destruction ; and , if we will not open our Eyes , it must , without a Miracle , be Ours too . We are trying the Experiment how many Losses will Ruine us . And extol the super-abundance of our Riches , but not of our Wisdom , in bearing up against a continued Series of Ill-Success , without any other Rational Prospect , but of its growing worse and worse , 'till there be no Remedy . I think I have been a True Reasoner : I wish , in this , I may be a False Prophet , LOUP SKELLUM . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A59469-e10 〈…〉 S. Speech of Mr. St. J●●●s . See also the Printed Acc●unt o● Joh● D●v●ll , A. D. 1665. The Remonstrance of G. Carew , Esq Printed 1662.