Vindiciæ veritatis: truth vindicated against calumny. In a briefe answer to Dr. Bastwicks two late books, entituled, Independency not Gods ordinance, with the second part, styled the postscript, &c. / By Henry Burton, one of his quondam-fellow-sufferers. Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A78034 of text R200279 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E302_13). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 92 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A78034 Wing B6177 Thomason E302_13 ESTC R200279 99861085 99861085 113213 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A78034) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 113213) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 50:E302[13]) Vindiciæ veritatis: truth vindicated against calumny. In a briefe answer to Dr. Bastwicks two late books, entituled, Independency not Gods ordinance, with the second part, styled the postscript, &c. / By Henry Burton, one of his quondam-fellow-sufferers. Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. [4], 34, [2] p. Printed by M.S. for Gyles Calvert, and are to be sold at his shop at the west end of Pauls., London, : 1645. A reply to "Independency not Gods ordinance" by John Bastwick, published in two parts. The last leaf is blank. Annotation on Thomason copy: "7bre 22" [i.e. September 22]. Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng Bastwick, John, 1593-1654. -- Independency not Gods ordinance -- Early works to 1800. Congregationalism -- Early works to 1800. Dissenters, Religious -- England -- Early works to 1800. Church polity -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- Religion -- 17th century -- Early works to 1800. A78034 R200279 (Thomason E302_13). civilwar no Vindiciæ veritatis:: truth vindicated against calumny. In a briefe answer to Dr. Bastwicks two late books, entituled, Independency not Gods Burton, Henry 1645 16820 43 35 0 0 0 0 46 D The rate of 46 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2008-04 Elspeth Healey Sampled and proofread 2008-04 Elspeth Healey Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion Vindiciae veritatis : TRUTH VINDICATED AGAINST CALUMNY . IN A BRIEFE ANSWER to Dr. Bastwicks two late Books , entituled , Independency not Gods Ordinance , with the second Part , styled The Postscript , &c. By HENRY BURTON , one of his quondam-fellow-sufferers . LEVIT. 19. 17. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart : thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sinne upon him . 1 TIM. 5. 20. Them that sin rebuke before all , that others also may feare . And ( Tit. 1. 13. ) Rebuke them sharply , that they may be sound in the faith . ZACH. 8. 19. Love the Truth and Peace . LONDON , Printed by M. S. for Gyles Calvert , and are to be sold at his Shop at the West end of Pauls . 1645. ❧ To the ingenuous Reader . CHRISTIAN READER ; THi● Answer was long agoe so conceived and formed in the wombe , as the slow birth may seeme to have outgone its due time . It waited for the Postscript ; Which comming forth , proved such a strange creature , as some friends would not have mee foul my fingers with it . Hezekiah's word to his people was , in such a case ; Answer him not . But finding , that he still pursued me with his incessant provocations in more Books since , I thought of Salomons Counsell , Answer not ; and yet , Answer . For I perceived , that no Answer coming , a tumor began to grow , which needed timely lancing , to prevent some extreame inflamation hastening to a head , while the humour flowed in so fast : Therefore I hastened at length as fast , as before I was slow , if possible to recover our Brother . So as if I be quick and short with him it is to saye him with feare , plucking him out of the fine . I am plaine , and that 's all . Farewell . A BRIEFE ANSWER TO Dr. BASTWICKS two late Bookes , intituled , Independency not Gods Ordinance , &c. First and second part , or Postscript : By one of his quondam-fellow-sufferers . BRother Bastwicke , I had resolved for a time at least ( as I have done ) to have been silent in these controversies , though provoked not a little ▪ But now your two Books you lately sent me as also your late triumphing at Westminster , that the man in Friday-street had not yet answered your Booke , as was given out provoked me afresh in arenam descendere , to take them both to taske , and so Vna fidelia duos parietes . And if the perusall of them be not enough in lieu of thankes , I have returned you a compendious Answer ; wherein you have bound me by a double ingagement : the one , for the Cause ; the other , for my Person . But you will say , you have not named me in either of your two Books . 'T is true indeed . But give me leave to tell you , you have vellicated me , plucked me by the very beard . I will not say , as Joab tooke Amasa by the beard ; and , withall smote him in the fift rib . What ? Use a Brother so ? And a quondam-fellow-sufferer too ? Yea , & to take him so disgracefully by his white beard too , & that with a scurrilous Epithet , calling it * a great white ba●ket-hilted beard ? Parcius ista . {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , ( as said the old Poet ) pittying his white head , and his white chin . And the wise man saith , The beauty of old men is the gray head , yea a crowne of glory ▪ being found-in the way of righteousnesse . I remember when the G●●●es by force entred Rome-gates , where they found the grave Senators sitting in the gate in their senatorian robes , And their white staves in their hands , thinking thereby to strike some reverence into those harbarous Gaules , and one of them redely taking one of the Senators by his white beard , the good old Senator , ( though in that condition ) not brooking such an affront , struck the Gaul over the pate with his white rod ; though this cost him , and the rest their lives , the barbarians instantly falling a butchering of them . But for all your provocations throughout your Books , Brother , you shall not finde with me so much as a white staffe to lift up against you , though you charge us ( but how justly ) ▪ we have the sword in our hands . Nor doe I purpose to retort , or retaliate your little expected , and lesse deserved calumnies , lest I should therein be like unto you : but I shall answer you in the words of truth and sobernesse , and in the spirit of meeknesse and love . But how comes it to passe , that my two fellow-sufferers , and my selfe , should fall at this odds ? Was it by any divine providence ominated or presaged , by your two standings on one Pillary , and mine alone in the other , that wee should now come upon one ▪ Theatre to become spectacles to the world , by mutuall digladiations , as if the one Pillary should contend with the other ? Or did the distance of the two Pillaries boad any such distance in our present judgements ? But yet , O! O , never be such a distance in our affections ! But , herein at least ever be we a threefold coard , not easily broken . But the will of the Lord be done , who is onely wise , and will cause all things to co-operate for good to them that love him . But Brothers , we expected , that ( according to your own words , pag. 7. ) you would have acted the part of a Moderator between us . But instead thereof we find you a Judge , and that a severe one too ; but how justly , I leave to others to judge . For in your promised , or rather menaced Postscript , which ( to forestall your Readers with a prejudicate opinion of us ; and old piece of Rhetoricke , as that of Tertullus before Felix , telling him of Paul ; Wee have found this man a pestilent fellow , and a mover of sedition , &c. which he was not able to prove , his best rhetoricall argument being Calumnidre audacter , aliquid haerebit , Calumniate boldly , some thing will sticke ) you both prefix , and for surenesse , affix to your Booke ; you fasten upon us uncharitable dealing , fraud and jugglings of many of our Pastors and Ministers , as misleaders and troublers of Church and State , &c. all which * ( {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} ) hard and harsh termes , wee can no lesse then spread before the Lord the righteous Judge . I now come to your first Booke . And first for those two Scriptures which you face your frontispice withall , I desire it may appeare to all men in the conclusion , whether you or I have the better right to them , 2 Cor. 13. 8. and 1 Thes. 5. 21. Pag. 6. Brother , that which you intreat of us , you shall finde of your Brother ; onely give us leave in your owne words to intreat you to lay aside all passion , and all vaine-glory , and bitternesse , which not onely this your Booke , but your threatned Postscript breaths out against us . Pag. 7. You methodize and modell your Booke into two Questions : First , Concerning the Government of the Church , whether it be Presbyterian Dependent , or Presbyterian Independent : Secondly , Concerning gathering of Churches . Now for the first of these , before wee come to your Arguments , give me leave to except against your Termes , Dependent and Independent , whereupon as upon a foundation you state your Question . And if the foundation be not sure , the superstructure cannot be secure . Now Brother , doe you set these two Termes , Dependent , and Independent , at such odds , as if there were a great gulfe betweene them , never to come together , and become one ? You hold of Dependent onely : we hold not onely of Independent , but Dependent also . I shall make this cleare : Your Church Dependent is so called in a two-fold relation : First , Because it depends for its forme of Government upon the lawes of civill States , and so ( as the Cha●●leon ) receives impressions of sundry formes , changeable according to the present condition of the Civill Power , whether Protestant , or Papist , Christian , or Antichristian ( as our Brother hath set forth ) so as by this meanes , Christs Church and Kingdome ; his Spouse , that woman clothed with the Sunne , and having on her head , a crowne of twelve starres , and the Moone under her feete , should her selfe be turned into the Moone , as being subject to continuall changes . Secondly , Because your Church Dependent , depends necessarily upon a combination of Presbyters of many Churches , as Councels , Synods , Assemblies , Classes , without whose counsell ( say you ) nothing is to be done in any particular Church , of which more hereafter On the other side ; The Churches which you call Independent , are also Dependent . First , They are not otherwise Independent , then first , that they are not , nor ought ( in respect of Doctrine , Discipline , Worship , Church-Government ) to depend upon humane Lawes , Canons , Decrees , Customes ; but onely upon Christ and his Lawes ; as wherein they assert and hold forth Christs Kingly Office and Government over them ; and doe affirme , that to set up humane formes of worship and Church-Government , unto which the consciences and soules of Gods people must necessarily conforme and be subject , is a dethroning of the Lord Jesus Christ , and a denying him to be the onely King of his Church Secondly , Independent in this respect , because every particular visible Church , rightly constituted according to the Word of God , depends not directly and necessarily upon any other Church or Churches , as without whose jurisdiction ( call it Presbyterian , or what you will ) it may not exercise all that power , which Christ hath given to every particular Church , as touching all the Offices and Ordinances thereof , and that in as ample manner , as if there were besides that one , no other Churches in the World . And yet secondly , This Church thus Independent , is also Dependent . For , as it depends absolutely upon Christ , as the onely Head of this Body ; so as it is a member-church of the Catholick , and a sister-church of all particular Churches , with which it makes up one body , and one Spouse of Christ her Head and Husband : so it hath a mutuall dependence upon all true Churches , for communion , for consociation , for consultation , for comfort , for support ; though alwayes saving and retaining to it selfe all those Church-priviledges , which by Christs Charter are peculiar to every particular Church , and body of Jesus Christ . And in case this particular Church doe any act of censure upon any , who thereby shall thinke himselfe wronged , and shall addresse himselfe to other Churches , by way of complaint , and they shall thereupon desire of that church an account of their proceedings therein , this church will not refuse , but as in Christian duty bound , will to those Churches render a reason of that , or any other their doings , if questioned , and lawfully required . And all this in a sweet and loving way , with meeknesse and feare , 1 Pet. 3. 15. so as none is debarred of any such appeale . Nor is any well constituted Church of Christ to be conceived so brutish , or so conceited of her selfe , as to thinke shee may not erre , or her selfe so wise , as in many difficult cases not to need the counsell of others , or so inflexible , as with the Stoicks , Sententiam mutare nunquam ; nullius rei poenitere ; never to change their minde or judgement , of nothing to repent , when convinced of an error . But what if one particular Church will not , after all due meanes used , ( which yet no rationall man can imagine will ever come to passe ) hearken to the unanimous judgement and counsell of the other Churches ? What is to be done ? Surely they may upon just cause withdraw communion from that Church , which , in that case , is the highest censure the Churches can proceed to . And if the party aggrieved complaine to the civill Magistrate , the Church being called is accountable to the power . Thus have I plainely , clearely , and fully , as I conceive , stated these two Termes Dependent and Independent : whereby is sufficiently cleared to the view of all unpartiall Judges , not possessed with prejudice , our Dependent Independency , or Independent Dependency , from your manner of stating . And for your Simile ; wherein you propound it for better understanding ( as you say ) it halteth down-right of all foure , as being altogether Ab-simile , and Heterogeneous , of another nature . There is a vast disproportion between a civill Government , and Ecclesiasticall : the one established upon mans lawes , the other on Gods ; the one various , and variable , according to severall Civill States , Kingdomes , and Lawes : the other one and the same , ( or should be , if right ) in all the Churches of the Saints , having one Rule , one Law to walke by , immutable : And , Brother , for your paralleling of your many severall Congregations in one Citie , or one Division , or Hundred , or within such a Circuit , with a great Corporation , as of London , where is one Lord Major , and Aldermen and Common Councell , and so reducing so many Churches into one Corporation , as so many Companies making upone Citie : I suppose you meane not that one Provinciall , with his Diocesans , and Priests under them , should make up this Parallel . But this of necessitie you must doe , if you will have all the Congregations in their severall Divisions , or Weapontacks , to be governed by their severall Presbyteries respectively . Reason requires , that first you set up such Presbyters over every one of your Congregations , as may be for the greatest part of them good , pious , learned , orthodox : or otherwise , if the greater party be Malignant , and ill affected , prophane and haters of the power of Godlinesse , they will over-vote the good party ; and so what a hard yoake will you put upon the necks of all such , as be truly godly , when they shall be cast out by a malignant Parochiall Congregation ? and going to complaine to your Presbytery , they shall finde as cold comfort , as formerly they have done in the Prelates Consistory . But there will be a better care had of placing good Presbyters . But Brother , let us first see it , that so your Presbyterian Government may shew us a face the more amiable , and lesse formidable to all truly godly , and most conscientious men . But if you cannot doe this , whither shall the poore soules goe , which live under a prophane Presbyter , or one that admits all sorts tag rag to the Lords Table , with whom godly soules can no more converse , then with Heathen ; and much lesse at that holy Ordinance , where they must be made companions with such kinde of Saints , as Job would not set with the dogs of his flocke : And if any whose conscience is not so strong to digest such hard bits , as others of the common multitude are , who either see no difference at all between the precious and the vile ; ( but account all alike Saints at least , when but at the Sacrament ) or have such Sepulchre-wide throats , as they can swallow a Camell , when a tender and more narrow conscience is apt to be choaked with every Gnat : What shall this poore soule doe ? Doth he rather withdraw from the Ordinance , then he can endure to see it so prophaned , and so partake with the prophaners ? then he heares , A Schismaticke . Now if you have not a good Presbytery , where shall he goe to complaine ? He may goe and appeale higher , you will say . And what if the higher the worse ? Good Brother , either provide the people of the Land an honest godly Presbytery , that may be as so many Angels to gather out of Christs Kingdome every thing that offends : or else let there be a tender care of tender consciences , and some provision made for them , that they may not be scandalized , by being forced to be the companions of the scandalous . And therefore Brother , you that professe so much solicitous care to poore bodies , let some drops of your charity fall upon their soules . And at the least , and last extremity , call in that Postscript of yours , and suppresse it in the Presse , that it may never see the Sunne ; as wherein you proscribe all those , that are not of your Dependent Presbytery : for you tell us , it is to come forth a fortnight hence , in the which it will be proved , that it is the duty of all christian Magistrates , Parents , Masters of families , and all such as truly feare God , to yeeld their hand for the suppressing of heresies , and all novelties in Religion , if they really desire the glory of God , &c. And what you meane by your heresies and novelties in Religion , is obvious to all by this your Booke already come forth , Independency is heresie , and novelty in Religion , and what not , that nought is ? Now did ever proceed out of the mouth of a quondam-Martyr , and one newly brought out of a balefull prison , such a fiery breath as this ? Oh Brother , remember thy selfe , and repent ; and let the world know , that thou hast made a better use of afflictions , then so fiercely to run on in such a course , as to wreck the malignity of a prison upon thy best friends , the seed of whose love , so liberally sowne upon thee and thine , expected another-gates harvest , then nettles , bryars , and thornes . But you bring the Scripture for you . Come on , Brother , let you and me try it out by the dint of this sword . And truly , I shall by the helpe of my God make no long worke of it . You spend above eleven sheets , wherein you have woven sundry long threaden Arguments , to measure out your Dependent Presbytery , as holding parallell with the line of Scripture . Now you must pardon me , if I shall assay ( according to an old Proverbe ) with one stroake of Phocions hatchet , to cut in two the long thread of your Alcibiadian fluent and luxuriant Rhetorications . For answer . First , let me aske you a Question : Whether those many Congregations you so call , you doe not understand to be so many distinct , and particular intire Church-bodies , or Churches respectively . If they be , tell us , if each of these Churches be 〈◊〉 its prime and proper notion an intire Church , without or before it be united in such a Presbyterian Combination , and Government , as you speake of . And if so , whether it be de esse , or de bene esse , of the being , or onely well-being of each particular Church , so to be united , and combined into a Church-collective , of many Churches into one . If you say , it is of the being of a Church , to be yoaked with other Churches , as into one , then what being had that Church in Abrahams family , seeing there were then no other Churches in the world , but that ? And if that were extraordinary , ( as perhaps you will say ) then say I , when Churches are multiplied , and combined into one , whether is this Church collective Dependent , or Independent ? If Dependent , then not an entire Church , but subordinate unto , or depending upon some greater Assembly . But come we to the highest of all , a generall Counsell of all the Churches in the world : is this now , a Church Dependent , or Independent ? If Independent , then there may be a Church Independent in the world ; and so the first particular Church in the world , was no lesse an Independent Church , in reference to other Churches . And if all Churches in one Oecumenicall Councell , as one Church , be Dependent , then whereupon Dependent ? Or is it a Dependent on it selfe ? That were blasphemy to say it . Whereon then ? Surely on the Scripture or nothing . All Churches then are Dependent upon the Scripture necessarily : not so necessarily one Church upon another , whether particular or generall . Ergo , all particular Churches being not necessarily dependent one upon another , nor one upon many , but absolutely dependent upon the Scripture for their ultimate or finall resolutions , are no lesse Independent upon other Churches ; because all the Churches in the world put together , cannot of themselves give forth an infallible Oracle ; as to say , this wee command to be beleeved and observed . This is Antichrists voyce , Volumus & jubenius . The Church , or Churches may shew their reasons from Scripture , and labour to perswade , but cannot binde them upon faith or conscience ; this the Holy Ghost and Scripture can onely doe . But I come briefly to your Arguments , whereby you would prove your Classicall Presbyterian Government , and so upward . The patterne hereof you take from the Christian Church at Jerusalem . Hereof many arguments , or rather words , and tantologies you multiply , and toyle your selfe and vex your Reader withall , which you might have reduced to one . It is in summe , this : In Jerusalem were many Christian Congregations , and all these made but one Church , and so were governed by one Presbytery . But that Church at Jerusalem , being the prime Apostolicke Church , is a patterne for all succeeding Churches : Ergo , all Church-government ought to be regulated by that , and consequently by a Presbytery over many Congregations . For as for your indefinite enumeration of those multitudes baptized by John Baptist , and by Christs Disciples , we take no notice of them , unlesse formed into a Church , or Churches : but following the expresse Scripture , the first formed Church wee finde in Act. 2. which though consisting of five thousand , yet it was one intire particular Church , and not Churches ; and they continued daily {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , with one accord in one place together , ( ver. 2. ) and in the Temple , ( ver. 44. 46. ) growing from a hundred and twenty ( Act. 1. 15. ) to three thousand more , ( Chap. 2. 41. ) and then in all five thousand ( Chap. 4. 4. ) and all these but one Church , which assembled together to heare the word in the Temple ; and though they wanted a convenient place so spacious , as wherein to breake bread , or receive the Lords Supper all together , so as they were constrained to sever themselves into divers companies , in severall private houses to communicate , yet this severing was not a dividing of the Church into so many distinct formall Churches , or Church-bodies , being but so many branches of one and the same particular Church ; which though you call so many Congregations , yet properly so many Churches they were not . And therefore you never read , The Churches at or in Jerusalem , but , The Church at Jerusalem . And this no Nationall Church neither , witnesse those Churches in Judea , Gal. 1. 22. Whereupon I answer to your Argument ; and first to your Proposition . I deny that those Congregations you name , are so many Churches , properly so called , having their distinct Officers and members , united into one Church-body respectively . This I put you to prove . And without proving it , your 11 or 12 shee●… spent about this Argument prove to be meere wast paper . And for your Assumption , that the Church at Jerusalem , as being a prime Apostolicke Church , is therefore a patterne for all succeeding Churches , and therefore for a Classicall Presbytery over many Churches ▪ you must first prove your Proposition , as before , that there were many Churches in Jerusalem constituted in their distinct formes , and bodies . Secondly , it being no more , then one entire particular Church ( and not any Diocesan , or Provinciall Church , or the Presbytery thereof Classicall , ( as you would beare us in hand ) it is a patterne for all particular Churches in succeeding ages ; and yet ( by your favour ) not so perfect a patterne , as no Apostolicke Church besides it should also come in , to make up the patterne compleat . For we are necessarily to take all the Churches in the New Testament together , to make up one entire & perfect Church patterne . For in the Church at Jerusalem , we finde election of Officers , but we finde not expressed that part of Discipline ; for casting out of corrupt members , as in the Church of Corinth , and so in the rest . For the Churches were not brought forth to full perfection in one day . Their very constitution had a graduall growth . The Church at Jerusalem had not at first Deacons , till there was a necessitie ; and the largenesse of the Church required seven Deacons ; which is no patterne for every Church to have seven Deacons . The summe is , to make up a compleat patterne , not onely the Church at Jerusalem , but that of Corinth , of Ephesus , those of Gal●tia , that of Philippi , and the rest ; are to be conferred together , that each may cast in its shot to make up the full reckoning , that so what is not expressed in one , may be supplied by the rest , to make one entire platforme . For the Scripture consists of many Books , as so many members in one body ; one member cannot say to another , * I have no need of thee . Againe , the Church at Jerusalem , if it must be a patterne for all other Churches , then in this , that all other Churches must be subject to some one Church , because ( Act. 15. ) things in question were there debated , and determined , and sent to other Churches to be observed . But for as much as that Church at that time in those things was infallibly guided by the Holy Ghost , wherewith the Apostles there were inspired , in which respect their resolutions were with Authoritie , It pleased the Holy Ghost and us , ( that which no particular Church since the Apostles could ever say ) it followeth that the Church then at Jerusalem remaines not in all things a patterne for other Churches ; for a patterne must be in all things imitable , and perfect . Lastly , for Appeales , so much agitated , and pressed , I have said enough before , and elsewhere ( as in my Vindication ) to vindicate the right use of that in point of Church matters . And so I passe briefly from your first Question to your second ; which is concerning the manner of gathering of Churches , and admitting members and Officers : Viz : Whether Ministers of the Gospel may , out of already congregated Assemblies of believers , select and choose the most principall of them into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto themselves , and admit of none into their societie , but such as shall enter in by a private covenant , and are allowed of by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation . This is your generall stating of your Question ; and out of the wombe thereof , there doth issue a numerous brood , no lesse then six Queries , or if you will ( to usurpe your owne usuall expression ) so many sucking Questions , hanging at the dugs of their damme , your generall Question . For answer to all in their order : But before I answer , let mee premise thus much : Brother , I well see ( and that without spectacles ) that among all those Independents whom you so familiarly hurle stones at , and cast up dust , yea durt in their faces , I am not the least object in your eye , as by many palpable passages in your Booke doth appeare . And therefore I shall crave leave , that I may have the favour to represent and personate all those my Brethren the Ministers , whom Giantlike you revile and challenge , and warre against under the name of Independents , as taking this take upon my selfe alone , in answering this your Question about gathering of Churches . First then to your generall stating of the Question . You say , it concernes the manner of gathering . Do you imply here the lawfulnesse of the matter of gathering , by questioning onely the manner ? Your words may seeme to import so much . But I will not quarrell a word . I come to your Question , viz. Whether Ministers of the Gospel , &c. Surely if any , then Ministers of the Gospel may gather Churches : and that for two reasons ; first , because by the Gospel , & the Ministry thereof , Churches are gathered to Christ . Secondly , because we read , that the Apostles ▪ and other Ministers of the Gospel have by their Ministry gathered Churches . Therefore no question , but if any , then Ministers of the Gospel may gather Churches to Christ . I , but out of already congregated Assemblies of Believers , to select and choose the most principall of them . Indeed this is something to purpose . But tell me , Brother ▪ who is it ▪ that doth this ? You apply it to us all , and to me in particular . But I deny that I so doe , and I dare say the like for others . And can you prove all those Parishes , out of which Churches are so gathered , as you say , to be Assemblies of believers ? But they all professe to be Christians . True , so doe all Papists . Ergo , are all Popish Parishes , Assemblies of Believers ? So as if Ministers of the Gospel should by their preaching convert sundry Papists of severall Popish Parishes to become a Church of Christ , should they gather such a Church out of so many Assemblies of believers ? But ( say you ) wee gather Churches out of Assemblies of believing Protestants . Why Brother , doe you not know this to be a time of Reformation ? And have we not all taken the solemne Covenant to reform our selves and others , according to the word of God ? And to endeavour to our power , to extirpate and roote out all Popery , Prelacy , Idolatry and Superstition out of this Kingdome ? And the time of this first gathering , was it not then , when the old service and ceremonies were in use ? And who hath gathered these Churches ? Wee . Who are we that you should thus charge us ? As Peter and John answered , Why looke yee so on us ? So , why doe yee impute that to us , which is onely to be attributed to the Gospel of the grace of God , whereby our very Protestants are wonne from their old superstitions , and will-worship , and from under the yoake of humane formes in the matters of Christs Kingdome ? So as when they heare , Christ is the onely King of his Kingdome , the onely Law-giver of his Church , and his Word the onely law and rule of all Church-government , and all this demonstrated in the Word of God , which they have taken a solemne Covenant in all things to follow : doe you reproach us , for being a people who are ready to obey Christ , so soone as wee heare of him , who alone is to be heard in all things , whatsoever he shall say unto us ? And for Churches , doe you , Brother , limit Churches to Parishes ? What if you finde so many hundred Parishes in England , whose Inhabitants both Ministers and people are all Malignants , or popishly-affected ? Will you have those Parishes to be so many Churches , and those popish Malignants , so many believers ? Were not this to set up Ecclesiam malignantium , or Churches malignant , which are no way militant , but against the power of Religion , and the peace of the civill State ? Or if there be found some one or two in each of those Parishes , that have the love of Christ in them , and are truly godly , and whose soules are grieved to communicate with Sodome : Will you not allow God to send an Angel , his Messenger , with a word to call them forth ? And doe you not know , that the ancient Church of the Jewes was then a Church , when the Apostles by their preaching gathered a Church out of it ? A Christian Church out of the Jewes Synagogue ? I , say you , but we gather Christian Churches out of Christian Churches . Surely then it is Gods word that calleth Christians to come into a more reformed Church-way , out of wayes more corrupt and lesse reformed . Nor doe wee separate from the Churches as Christian , as you call them , but from their corruptions , * separating the precious from the vile , as from something Antichristian . But you will say , Now are the Parishes and Churches purged , no Service-book now , no Hierarchy , no such thing , and yet wee select and choose the most principall into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto our selves . To which I answer : Though the Service-book , Hierarchy , &c. be taken away , yet the Parishes are not so purged of them , but that most mens hearts are still hankering after that Egyptian-service and Task-masters . Again , all those that professe to be come off from those things , yet are not resolved what Religion to take to , but are ready to take up ( as themselves say , and do ) what Religion men will set up over them , not looking to what the Scripture prescribes and commands ; so as it remains , that those who embrace the Word , and preferre Christs Decrees before mans , are those principall men , whom not we , but the Word of Christ doth call forth , select and choose voluntarily to joyn in Church-fellowship ; and this not so peculiar to our selves , but that when a right Reformation is set up in the severall places where they dwell , they may enjoy the pure Ordinances there , as I have shewed in my Vindication . And if you examine who they be that have joyned themselves unto the Lord , either of this parish , or of other , you shall find them to be for their outward estate , ( in comparison of others ) none of those principall men you speak of . But say you , wee admit of none into our society , but such as shall enter in by a private Covenant . Now the very name of Covenant is become a bug-bear to many . But it is mightily mistaken , as I have shewed in my Vindication : For it is nothing else , but a declaration of a free assent , and voluntary agreement to walk in the wayes of Christ with the Church , whereof they are members , and to perform all service of love one to another , submitting themselves to the Order and Ordinance of Christ , in that Church respectively . So that it is not the name of Covenant that is so terrible , but the Order of Church-communion ; and this to those only , that having used to walk without a yoak ( as the Scripture calls sons of Belial ) love not to come under the yoak of Christ , then which to a willing bearer nothing is more easie and sweet . But lastly , you say , they must be allowed of by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation . And ( I pray ) what harm in that ? Nay , doth it not stand with very good reason , that they who are to walk together , should first be agreed together ? As Amos 3. 3. Can two walk together , except they be agreed ? If therefore any one of the Congregation can object any thing , as a just cause of non-admittance of a member , he ought to shew it , not only for his own peace , but the peace of the Church . Therefore , to object such things as these , doth it argue a spirit favouring of such a holy humility , as becomes those who affect the society of Saints ? And when the whole church gives approbation in this kind , it is both to the church and the member admitted , a comfort , and withall , a discharge of their duty in a provident care for preventing inconveniences and scandals ; seeing it is easier for a guest to be kept out , then to be cast out . Thus much of your Question in generall ; which because I have met with it in the severall branches , I shall need to say the lesse to those Queries which you derive from it . And in truth they are rather captions then Queries ; and the first is answered in my former stating of the Question . For the second , to know those well , that are to be admitted , Abundans ca●tela non nocet : In things weighty , we cannot be too wary ; nor do we so much look at circumstances in conversion , as the substance . The third , for the consent of the Congregation , it is answered before : So also the fourth , about the Covenant . The fifth , for the power of the keys , wee tie it not to womens girdles . The sixth , and last , I answer , that those Churches , which are for matter and form , true Churches , and are governed according to Christs Word , do set up Christ as King upon his Throne . And for such as are otherwise , let them consider , whether they do as they ought , set up Christ as King upon his Throne . You proceed , I have ( say you ) specified the things without any spirit of bitternesse . In deed , this your first book ( as we finde by tracing your steps in other Tracts ) is a summary collection of what they have gone before you in , whose thread hath led you all the way through this maze : but when you come ( as in your Postscript ) to minister your own Dosis , and to show your self in your own element , there wee finde the main ingredient to be the very gall of bitternesse , which yet your first book is not altogether free of . Pag. 101. you say , The Apostles , and other Ministers of the Gospell were to receive all such as believed , and were baptized , and that upon the profession of their faith and repentance , without any further testimony of others , unlesse they had been formerly known to be open enemies , and then they were justly to be suspected , till they had given publique evidence by witnesse to the Apostles and Ministers of their true conversion , as concerning Paul , Acts 9. 26 , 27. Now here I observe : 1. A notable contradiction to what you say , pag. 115. As Gods command to all Ministers was , that they should admit all such into the Church , as believed and were baptized , upon their desiring it , without any confession , either private or publique . Here I leave you to reconcile your own contradiction . Vpon their profession , and without any confession . 2. I answer , that in these dayes of professed , and covenanted-for Reformation , there is required the profession or confession of one speciall point of faith ▪ ( which in words ; none dare , but in practice most do deny ) touching Christs Kingly office , formerly suppressed by Antichristian tyrannie , but now breaking forth from under the cloud in its native light , concerning his absolute , sole soveraignty over our consciences and Churches , without dependence upon humane Ordinances , or Nationall Lawes to prescribe such forms of Church-government , as are most serviceable to the politicall ●nd● of severall States ; which point of faith is ( though not alwayes explicitly , yet ) implicitly confessed by all those , which ●ender themselves to be admitted into such Churches , as are of a constitution most agreeable to the law and rule of Christ . And withall , an implicit profession at least of their repentance is included , as having formerly lived under an Antichristian government , and inventions of will-worship , all which is implicitly professed and repented of , by their very entrance into Church-fellowship ; and so much the more is repentance herein needfull , because many , yea most of such Conformists , if not all , have had their hands , lesse or more , either by acting , or assenting , or by silence and connivence in the persecution of those godly Ministers and people , which stood out against that Antichristian usurpation over their consciences , refusing conformity to their Canons . So as in this case , you confesse , that our people ( formerly Conformists , and now , for the greater part , but newly crope out of the shell of their bondage , being brought off from their old ceremoniall service , and this more by humane authority in generall so ordering , then of conscience ) ought not only to approve themselves by the profession of their faith , and repentance , but to have the testimony of others also , as having been formerly known to be either prest and sworn vassals , or voluntiers in the Prelaticall Militia , which what is it else , but a continuall war against the true Church and Kingdome of Jesus Christ ? But you adde ( pag. 102. ) that Commission was delivered to the Apostles and Ministers of the Gospel , as whose place only it was by the Keyes to open and shut the doors of the Church , and so to admit , or refuse , as they found men fitted or qualified , to be made members ; and this you labour to prove by the practice of John Baptist . Now , as for John Baptist ( about whose gathering you have so bestirred your selfbefore , and to as little purpose ) you may observe , that those believers in Christ then to come , according to the Papists Doctrine , were not formed into a Christian Church , or Churches , as after Christs resurrection the believers were . And when you come to visit those Christian Churches once constituted in their Gospel-form by the Apostles , you shall finde , that the power of admitting or rejecting , or casting out of members , was not in the Apostles or Ministers alone , but in the Churches . For this , read 1 Cor. 5. where the whole Church of the Saints in Corinth , to whom Paul wrote , were to cast out the incestuous person ; as also afterward upon his repentance , to re-admit him , 2 Cor. 2. 6 , 7. This one instance is a sufficient president for all Churches . But you alledge that of Cornelius sending to Joppa for Peter , he sent not ( say you ) to the Church of Corinth ; true , and what then ? Ergo , none but the Minister of the Gospel hath power to admit members . It is one thing to preach , and instrumentally to convert souls , which chiefly pertains to those that are called thereunto : but in the case of Church-government , of admitting ▪ or casting out , it is otherwise . And here let Peter himself ( whose words you alledge ) resolve us ; Who , when the Holy Ghost so wonderfully fell on all them that heard the Word , said , Can any man forbid water , that these men should not be baptized , &c. Which words imply , that ifany exceptions could have ben made , it was in those Jewes present , to give forth their allegations , why those believing Gentiles should not be admitted to become one Church with the believing Jewes . So as your observations thereupon fall to the ground ; as that , First , Peter was sent to , and not the Church ; and , secondly , Peter commanded them to be baptized : Again , this example was extraordinary in all the circumstances of it ; and when you have said all , you can conclude nothing . Your instance of the Eunuch , Acts 8. 8. of Lydia , Acts 16. as many other , are meer extravagants . We speak of Churches constituted , not of single converts , here and there one , not yet joynted into a particular Church-body . I passe by your impertinent declamatious against different opinions in the same house . Do you reconcile them ; for Christ himself foretold of them , as wee shall tell you when wee come to your Postscript ; which when I mention here , doth not your minde misgive you ? But of this in due place . And where you say , all that believe , and are baptized , are by Gods command to be admitted , desiring it , without any confession , or Covenant : But what if they do not believe aright ? What if they not only not believe , but deny and disclaime Christs Kingly Prerogative ? And so , what if they stiffly maintain a most damnable and destructive herefie , which overthroweth a main principall and fundamentall of faith ? If such a one , as Dr. Bastwick with all his ●air flourishes of holinesse , should desire to be admitted into Church-fellowship , being known to be an adversary to Christs Kingly government over his Churches , according to the Gospel : might not the Doctors own words satisfie , in case of refusall ( pag 102. ) as having been formerly known for an open enemy and persecutor of the Church , and so justly to be suspected , till publique evidence by witnesse given ? Although it cannot be imagined that the ba●e desiring of admittance into Church-fellowship could stand with the deniall , but necessarily implies a confession of Christs Kingly office in its highest degree . Pag. 116. You tell us , that our gathering of Churches hath no example in Scripture , and as for Christs Disciples , they were all sent to gather in the lost sheep of the house of Israel , they went not to gather in converted amongst converted men , &c. Now wee cannot have a more pregnant and more warrantable example in all Scripture then this , which you here alledge against us . Christs Disciples gathered Christian Churches out of the Church of the Jews ; nor can you deny , but the Jews were a Church , when the Disciples gathered churches out of it . Those Churches in Judea ( Gal. 1. 22. ) were gathered out of the Church of the Jewes ; and that Church of the Jewes generally believed that the Messias , or Christ , was to come . And if they were a Church when many being converted , were gathered out of it , then much more Churches may be gathered out of Nations or Kingdomes of the world , though for their generall profession of Christianity , every such Nation or Kingdome be respectively called a church , though the new Testament knowes no such church , and then not of divine constitution , as that of the Jews was , even when churches Christian were gathered out of it . And brother , prove unto us , that such as you call a Nationall Church , is a church of divine institution ; shew us an example of a Nationall Church in all the new Testament , otherwise you do but weave the Spiders web . But wee ( say you ) gather converted men from among converted men , and so pick out of others folds and flocks the best and fattest sheep . This you do familiarly cast in our dish , and yet it is never the fatter . Now in this wee may justly demand of you , to prove , that those whom you call converted men , from among whom wee gather churches , be indeed so converted as they should be , when as yet they come not up close to the rule of Reformation , Gods Word , as thereby to endeavour the setting up of Christ , without waiting on men , as without whom Gods Word is not a sufficient rule , and as on whom wee must necessarily depend for the form and law of Reformation : And yet wee deny not but many such may be godly , though otherwise they are not as yet throughly convinced of this kingly government of Christ , which we endeavour after ; nay , let me go a little higher ; for as much as this is an undeniable , yea , and prime principle in Divinity , that the Scripture is the only rule of faith , and of worship , and Church-government , and this rule is no Monopoly to one man , but that all and every man hath a power and priviledge to repair to this Law and Testimony , to do all things according to this Word : And seeing wee have all bound our selves by solemn Covenant to reform our selves , and those under our charge , according to the Word of God ; yea , and every one to go before other in this Reformation : tell mee now , brother , were it not a matter worth the while , for our reverend and learned Assembly , seriously to take it into debate , whether the generall tying up of men , to wait necessarily on the Synod for its finall resolution about Church-government , be not an usurpation upon our Christian liberty , and a diminution , at least of the authority and sufficiency of Scripture , and so consequently be not a trenching upon a fundamentall heresie ; as also an inhibition , restraining every man in his place , Ministers , Masters , &c. from setting upon the work of Reformation , and so necessitating a violation of our Covenant , or a dangerous retarding of the work , bringing in a sleepy carelesnesse upon mens spirits , to inquire at Gods Oracle , and so preparing a way for blind obedience ; I leave to the consideration of the wisest . But in the interim , to return to your Converts ; Do you hold all them to be converts , from among whom churches are gathered ? Do you not allow of a difference to be put ? Are there not a number of both ignorant and scandalous , that are not fit to come to the Lords Table ? See the Directory : Or do you take the greatest number in England to be godly , and truly converted ? Or are there not ( trow you ) many Parishes in England , where , perhaps but a few true converts are to be found ? And how few ( in comparison ) truly godly and faithfull Ministers are to be found for every Parish , under who●e Pastorall charge , two or three sheep may safely and comfortably feed among so many Goats , yea , perhaps , Wolves ? Or do you make every parish to be a Church ? You may do well herein to deal plainly with us , whether you would have so many inhabitants as are in every Parish , to be so many communicants . For so it seems you would have it : For ( pag. 117. ) you say , in the Churches of Corinth , Galatia , Colosse , were many that walked disorderly , taught false doctrine and heresies , and made Schismes ; yet the Apostles did not bid the Christians to separate themselves from the communion and assemblies of the Saints , and from the Ordinances , for these mens causes , &c. But you may know , those churches , though in part accidentally corrupt , yet were essentially , and in their originall constitution pure and holy churches ; and so were never your Parochiall churches , they never had a right divine constitution , but meerly humane and politicall . And therefore all your argumentation a dispari , falls to ground , and beats it self into a meer spume . But ( pag. 118. ) you plead , such Ministers and Churches to be true , where the truth of Christ is preached , received and professed . If you mean the whole truth of Christ , it is well . But do not you know , that there are three speciall visible marks of a true visible Church , The Gospel purely preached , the Sacraments duly administred , and Discipline rightly practised ? all which marks together , the Church of England ( for ought I know ) is yet to seek . For ( to speak nothing here of the materialls of a true particular visible Church : as visible Saints ; nor of the form of it , so many members united into one Church-body and fellowship , according to the Gospel , which you can handly shew us in any of your Parochiall Congregations ) I will only ask you , What particular visible Church you are a member of ( you may choose what Parish you please in England ) : Next , I ask you , What Discipline you have in that your church ; and whether a man complaining of you to your Congregation , or to your Minister , for wrongs done by you , and for your scandalous walking , he shall find so much Discipline there as to convent you before them , and justly charging you for walking scandalously , to the great offence and shame of the very name of Christian Religion , you shall thereupon be brought under Ecclesiasticall censure , so as to have the scandall removed , and the offence satisfied ? Good now tell me , what church either Parochiall , or Classicall , I should go unto ? For , suppose I have a complaint against you , for which I demand satisfaction , at the least , so as by the means of your church-censure you may be brought to a contrite acknowledgement of the wrong you have done mee . But if you cannot shew me such a church in any of your Parishes , b●… is it that you affirm * Christ to be set up as King in his Throne in mens hearts , swayed and guided by the Scepter of his Word and Spirit in your Parochiall Congregations : when as you cannot shew us ( I say ) in any one of those Congregations * the Name and Power of our Lord Jesus Christ to be so set up , as authoritatively and judicially to deliver over to Satan , {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , or otherwise condignly to censure such a one , as whose brother complains of to that Congregation , for unsufferable wrongs , and most base and barbarous usage , unbeseeming a naturall Heathen , much lesse a professed Christian ? And here I challenge our Brother for taking Christs Name in vain , when in stead of finding Christ set upon his Throne in their congregations , wee finde there no more but an Image , such as Michal had made up in stead of King David ; or as those , that in mockery , made of Christ a Pageant-king , stripping him , and putting on him a scarlet robe , and on his head a crown of thornes , and in his hand a reed , saluting him with , Hail king of the Jewes , with which title over his head they crucified him . And therefore those passages which ( page 118 , 119. ) he quotes of his Brother ( though not named ) will stand good against their opposers ▪ The summe of which is this : That all that depend upon men for Church-government , and not upon Christ and his Word alone , doe deny Christs Kingly government over Consciences and Churches : that all that receive not Christs Kingly office in the full extent of it , but after manifestation , doe reject it , are at the best converted but in part , and so in a worse condition , then those who though they believed , yet they had not so much as heard there was a Holy Ghost , but hearing , they received him : that such as refuse to be in Covenant with Christ , or to make profession or confession thereof before men , want their evidence of their being Gods people , and so quantum in se , as much as in them lyeth , cut off their children from having interest in Baptisme , the externall seale of the Covenant . And therefore seeing such things are objected , how doth it concerne both Ministers and people to looke to their evidences ? To omit his tedious tautologies all along ( being the bombast of the booke ) to pag. 124. there he saith , When the Ministers of England teach this doctrine in their preachings and writings , how can they be truly said to deny , disclaime , and preach against Christs Kingly government over mens consciences and Churches ? It were well if they did truly indeed preach it , which few or none of them doe . Or if they doe truly preach it , why doe they not practise it , and perswade the people to depend upon Christ for it , and not upon men ? But ( pag. 126. ) the Ministers of England set up a Presbytery after Gods Word . This you can never yet prove unto us , untill wee may see it . But the Independents themselves are Presbyterians ( say you ) and labour ●o set up a Presbytery of their own . Thus here , and all along you carry it with a torrent of words , and that is all . Wee set up that Presbytery , which wee finde in Gods Word , and none other . Then ( pag. 127. ) you fall againe upon the strictnesse used in admission of members , which ( say you ) the Apostles used not . But wee know , that all those who were admitted by them , did first make confession of their faith and repentance , as Mat. 3. 6. Acts. 2. 37. Act. 19 18 , 19. Act. 8. 37. And the Apostles feared to receiv●Paul , as their fellow-Apostle , untill they had examined the truth thereof . And ( pag. 130. ) you charge us with making schismes , &c. Surely we are commanded to separate our selves from all corruptions of the world , and humane inventions ; as 2 Cor. 6. 16. Acts 2. 40. and this , when a Christian Church began to be gathered out of that of the Jewes . Pag. 138. you inveigh against new truths , and new lights , as you every where nauseously call them : and say , Where was it ever heard of , either in the Christian or Pagan world , that it was ever permitted to any Minister or Preacher , to have all the Pulpits in any Nation to preach a diverse doctrine to that whi●h is set up by Authoritie , and such as tends to make a faction and division amongst the people ? I doe most assuredly beleeve , that there cannot the like precedent be produced . So you . No ? What say you of that precedent of the Apostles , who in the Temple daily preached a diversed doctrine , to that of the Pharisees ? So of John Baptist . So of Christ . And this in Judea , which was a Parallel at least to a Nationall Christian Church , onely that was originally founded upon divine institution , but this not so . And for the Pagan World , what innumerable precedents are there , of preaching the Gospel , and constituting of Churches , even throughout the Pagan world ? And all this divers to that which was set up by mans Authoritie , whether Jewish , or Paganish . And as our Brother here , so did the High Priests in their Counsells charge the Apostles , saying , * Yee have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine . A new Doctrine , a new Truth , a new Light . So Act. 24. 5. Tertullus , with his Rhetoricke , being feed by the High Priest and the Elders , makes a declamation against Paul , saying , Wee have found this m●m●… pestilent fellow , and a mover of sedition among all the Jewes throughout the world , and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarens . And this word Nazarens , signifies the sect of Saparatists , of whom the Apostle is there maliciously marked , as the {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} ▪ the ring-leader . The like out-cry we have , Act. 21. 28. Men of Israel , helpe : This is the man , that teacheth all men every where against the people , and the Law , and this place , &c. Nor want wee a Pagan precedent , Act. 19. 26 where Diana's silver-shrine-maker , what a dust he raiseth in the whole Citie , saying ; Yee see and heare , that not alone at Ephesus , but almost throughout all Asia , this Paul hath perswaded and turned away much people , saying , that they be no Gods which be made with hands . Thus you see Paul , and the other Apostles , and Evangelists , found Pulpits every where , both among the Jewes and Gentiles , though they preached a divers doctrine , to that set up by Authoritie . And must Christ have no other doctrine or Church-government in the world , then that which is set up by the worlds authoritie ? Surely , this is a new light indeed , if a light at all ; a new doctrine , diverse to that which Christ hath set up by his divine authoritie . But this doctrine ( say you ) tends to make a faction and division among the people . And did Pauls , and the Apostles doctrine escape the scourge of this whip ? Note all the places forecited , with many more throughout the New Testament , and all ages , where the Gospel in its purity and power is preached . But one thing more I must not passe , without a note . How doth our Brother make good his exclamation : Was it ever beard of either in the Christian or Pagan world , that it was ever permitted to Preachers , to have all the Pulpits in a Nation to preach a divers doctrine , & c ? And is it so indeed ? Have we all the Pulpits in the Kingdome ? I hope your Brother T. E. by his pen and preaching , and you by your pen , will take an order for that , that wee shall not have all the Pulpits , no nor any at all with your good will Witnesse that late mis-●ule at your towne of Colchester , upon your Books , and T. E. his preaching . And therefore this may be placed among your Grolleries . And for the Jewish Synagogues tolerated among the Heathen , if we may not have the Pulpits , good now envie us not our Synagogues . Be not worse to us , then the heathen were , and are , as you give us sundry examples , pag. ibid. 138. Page 140 you call the people of the Presbyterian Independent Congregation , a company of wild geese . But wee are not yet come to your Postscript ; Where Pag. 14. you call them silly goslings following the old goose . Yet here you acknowledge that the Elders have oftentimes great abilities of wit , and scholarship , learning and eloquence : which in your Postscript you universally strip them of , except onely two for breed . The rest of your Booke to the end , being all along overgrowne with nettles , stinging upon every touch , and the sharper still , the neerer it drawes to the Postscript , ( as , Worse then * Diotrephes , or the Pope ▪ * most diabolicall Tyranny , Lording it over Gods Clergies , * Fellows of Gotham Colledge , not knowing their Prim●r in Politicks , nor their Catechisme in Divinitie , and the like ) we gladly passe ove● untouched , as being all prickles , and no pith . Onely one sharper then all the rest , I may not be unaware of , which you call , the weapon of the left hand , namely , the sword , which you would have the Magistrate to take up to suppresse our Brethren the Independents ( as you style them ) calling that man a Ninny , and a man unworthy to sit in Counsell in any State , that should say with Gamaliel , Refraine from these men , for if their worke , or Counsell be of God , yee cannot overthrow it , lest yee be found fighters against God ; and so let them goe on to doe mischiefe . For herein ( say you ) Gamaliel spake neither as a wise man , nor as a Christian . Thus our Brother drawing neere the end of this his Booke , hath drawne it so low neere the bottome , that the very lees of it begin to run atilt , and that remaines , is reserved to be powred forth in the Postscript . The Postscript . THis whole Postscript is a very C●nto & farrago , or hodge-podge of invectives , sarcasmes , scurrilous scoffs , incendiary incentives to stirre up the State , and all sorts of people , to root out , and cut off all those that are of the Independent way , as they call it . I shall onely note some of his passages all along , to prevent ( if it may be ) the nauseousnesse of the Reader by brevitie . And first in his Defence against calumnies , being in way of a Preface to his Postscript . Page 2. They affirmed ( saith he ) that I was the greatest Incendiary in the Kingdome , and that they would prove it ; and page 4. they calumniate me as the greatest incendiary of the Kingdome , which they accused me of before they had seene my Booke ; and I have been freed from that reproach by both Houses of Parliament , who adjudged all my sufferings unjust . Answ. But now they may bring your Booke for a proofe and witnesse , whether you be not one of the greatest Incendiaries in the Land . And for this I shall quote but two places , as two witnesses for confirmation hereof . The first is in your Preface , pag. 28. They ( alwayes meaning the Independents ) have the sword now in their hand , and they thinke their party strong enough to encounter any adverse and opposing party , and they professe they care not how soone they come to cutting of throats , and speake of nothing but the slanghtering and butchering of the Presbyterians . And therefore there is just cause given us to thinke we may expect better quarter from the very enemies , then from the Independents . The second witnesse is ( Postscript pag. 45. ) That they were all resolved to have the liberty of their Consciences , or else they would make use of their swords , which they have already in their hands . Now these two witnesses of your owne , want but a Judge , judicially to pronounce sentence , whether these words be not of an incendiary nature , and that in a high degree . For who so blind , as doth not cleerly see these fiery flashes and flames to fly in the face of that Army , which God hath honoured with many crownes of admirable victories , both at Yorke , at Nasby , and at Lamport , with the recovery of Leicester , Bridgewater , Bath , &c. so as God hath made this despised Army the Preservative of Citie and Countrey , the * Repairer of the breach , the restorer of the paths to dwell in . But doe they professe the butchery of the Presbyterians ? Produce them ; bring your witnesses . These words are not to be borne . But I leave the judgement thereof to the wisdome and justice of the Parliament , whose former freeing of you , extends not to cleare your words from being incendiary . And further to discover your spirit against those Worthies in the Army , you goe about to eclipse the glory of that famous victory at Marston m●ore . For , speaking contemptuously of it , you say , Some of the Independents stood to it in the battle of Yorke , when other of them run away ; for they ran as well as others ; and if they be not lyers , all the other Independents had run away too , and left the field , if they had known what had happened in the other parts of the Army . So you , with many other words of elevation , and slighting that party , by whose noble prowesse , and undaunted courage , God was pleased to give the victory , and even then when a great body of the Army deserted the field . And whereas you say , they saw not the flight , else they would have fled too for company , if ( say you ) they be not lyers ; or if you say true . But I can produce those that were actors in that battle , and are no Independents , that affirme , there was no running away at all , of those whose valour you so vilifie ; yea , though they did perceive how the matter went with some , as when a whole body flies , a thing with no great difficulty to be discerned . The rest of your vilifications so much exaggerated upon these men , are so nauseous , as every ingenuous Reader will loath them . And notorious is that you say , as by experience , I know not any Independent in England ( two onely excepted ) that doe not as maliciously and impla●ably hate the Presbyterians , as the mortallest enemies they have in the world . Now surely were all the Presbyterians in England of your spirit , though the Independents would not maliciously hate you , as Presbyterians , yet cause you would give them sufficient to beware of you , as of their mortallest enemies in the world . And you boldly conclude , saying ; It is a meere faction , and the most Pharisaicall , proud , envious , and malicious sect , that ever sprung up ; doing all out of an arrogant faction ; as cunning as Gypsies , &c. Now the Lord rebuke the rayling Rabshakees . Pag. 4. He commends the Kings Cavaliers for brave Gentlemen ; and he found more favour ( which he doth ever acknowledge for a singular courtesie ) then ever he found from Protestant Gaolers . Was it that you discovered unto them some of that bitternesse of spirit against the Independents , or some courtly compliance with Papists , preferring them before Independents or Protestants , that made those Popish Cavaliers so much to applaud you ? But doe the Independents accuse your Booke , as worthy to be burnt by the common hangman , and that you are crased in your braine ? Surely , there is so much fire in the bowels of your booke , ( as in the Trojan horse ) that a wonder it is , it hath not all this while set it selfe on fire , & with it selfe ( like that tongue in James 3. ) the whole frame of nature . And for your braine , you may doe well to use your physicall inspection . Page 7. Neither have I ( say you ) forgot , that I was a sufferer , or am now a persecutor of the Saints , as they calumniate mee . It were well if you would forget & forgoe to be a persecutor of the Saints , and that upon your repentance God would forgive you , as those Saints are ready to doe . There is no greater persecution , then that of the tongue and pen , sharper then swords and speares . No sorer persecution then Esaus scoffs , and the Jewes tongue-smitings . But most transcendent from a brother , a companion in tribulations , a familiar friend . Et tu Brute ? And yet all your scoffs and hard speeches , and bitter reproachings of those , whom you must needs confesse to be Saints , will not amount to the least Item of persecution . That were pitie . What thinke you of the like speech the late Prelate of Canterbury used in his * Booke to the King ? God forbid ( saith he ) that I should perswade persecution in any kinde , or practise it in the least . Did this protestation ( trow you ) cleare him from being a notorious , yea , unparalleld Persecutor ? Witnesse both your eares and mine . But you doe but oppose the Saints heresies and novelties in Religion . But must that needs be heresie , which you account heresie ? Or that noveltie , which appeares so to those that measure things rather by custome , then truth ? And doe you not no lesse oppose , vilifie , disgrace , jeare , and scoffe at their persons ? Doe you not call them * Beasts ? * Grolls ? Puffoists ? Wild geese ? Old geese ? a company of Jugglers ? Sticklers against Parliament and Presbytery ? a generation of cunning and crafty jugglers ? cunning deceivers ? and fighters against God ? violaters of all the lawes of God and Nature ? the most dangerous sect that ever yet the world produced ? a company of ratts among joyn'd stooles ? Despisers of Magistracy ? a generation of men , not worthy to give guts to a Beare ? Moone-calves ? All the Independents put together , have not so much learning as any one of a thousand other Ministers ? A Wheele-barrow ( such as they trundle White-wine-vinegar on ) fitter for them then a Coach ? Stirring up all along Magistrates and People to cut them off ? making them odious to the Scots ? speaking nothing but daggers , and daring ? and what not ? Now is all this no opposing of the Persons of those you call Independents ? To conclude all : You tell us a story of some that fight against their Christian brethren ; and to that end in the frontispices of their Books set downe Christs words , Mat. 10. 34 , 35 , 36. Thinke not that I am come to send peace on the earth ; I came not to send peace , but a sword , &c. Well : what of this ? Out of which words , misunderstood ( say you ) they would perswade the people , and make them believe , that they have good warrant and ground to fight against their Christian brethren , for the maintenance of their owne Whimsies . But Brother , who is this you speake of ? Who hath done thus ? They ? What they ? You put it in the plurall , In their frontispices . You know , Dolosus v●rsatur in universalibus . But is it in any more then one onely frontispice ? And have more then one done it ? And what one ? You describe him ( pag. 44. ) as not knowing his name , but one who is no Novice , Younker , and fresh-water Souldier , but a grave man with a great white basket-hilted beard . Why , Brother , what needed all these periphrases and circumlocutions ? You might much more honestly , ingenuously , and candidly have said , My brother Burton , then thus slily and disgracefully to take him by the beard , or Serpent-like , to come behind him , and bite him by the heele . But this is not all . How comes it , that you fasten upon your Brother such a false glosse , as that he should perswade the people , and make them believe , that from Christs words , they have good warrant and ground to fight against their Christian brethren ? Brother , I must needs here challenge you of extreame violation , not onely of brotherly charitie , but even of the Lawes of common humanitie . Doe you ( out of no other ground but meere malice , as all the world must needs judge ) hatch a Cockatrice-egge , a senselesse , whimsie in your own braine , and then lay your dead childe by mee , and take my living childe from mee , as you have done , in framing your own false sense , and putting it for mine , and taking my true sense , and making it your owne ? Brother , What 's become , I say not of your brotherhood , but of your manhood ? Or did you thinke to cover your selfe with your owne Cobweb , that the palpable nakedness of your shiftless and shameless affront should not be seene ? Surely , this is enough , not onely to discover the hollow of your heart , but the shallow of your braine , and to bring in the verdict of the whole Universe , that you are a man , not onely whose heart is divided , but whose head is , &c. salve it as you can . Now the Lord Jesus Christ reprove you for this , and give you repentance for this your more then unnaturall dealing , that I may not say diabolicall , certainly not Christian , even your best friends being Judges . And for the grollery and dotage you put upon your brother , ( ibid. and pag. 45. ) as abusing the Scripture , when your self most grossely abuse both it and him ; assure your self , your brother is not yet come to that dotage , but for all your vauntings on your part , and vilifying of his , he dare , through the help of Christ , deale with Dr. Bastwick hand to hand , as neither admiring your learning , nor envying your Roman buff , wherein your chief strength most lyeth , except in your scoffing , scurrilous , malicious bitter biting ; yea , bloody language , in which faculty , as facile princeps , you do so tripudiate and glory . But in your last Book , which you style ( but how justly ) A just Defence , &c. you would seem to teach us another rule to walk by , which it seems you had not then learned , when you writ your Postscript : We ought not ( say you ) per latus unius totam gentem perstringere ▪ you tel the Liev. Colonel , that he should not have condemned the whole Councel for a few , but should have singled them out , and by name have aspersed them ▪ And why did not you then rather call me by my name , as your brother Burton ( as our brother Prynne hath done ) then to hale me out by my great white basket-hilted beard , as some hideous Monster , or ridiculous spectacle to the world ? And whereas ( ibid. ) you adde , that you have written nothing in your books against the Independents , wherein you can be convinced of a lie : For ( say you ) I write nothing in my books against the Independents , but what upon my own knowledge I can affirm to be true , yea , depose it too . Now to go no further then this one instance of your dealing with mee ( aliâs your brother ) in fathering upon mee such a damnable and diabolicall glosse , being the spurious brat of your own brain ; What say you ? Do you know it of your own knowledge to be so , that because I set that Scripture in the front of my book , therefore my meaning was , hereby to perswade the people , and make them believe , that they have good warrant and ground to fight against their Christian brethren for the maintenance of their own Whimsies ? They be your own words , and you may take the whimsies in to boot . Now , did I ever so perswade the people , or make them believe so ? Nay , I will put it to your own conscience ( as hoping you have so much left ) whether in your conscience you can so much as once imagine , that your brother could ever have the least thought that way , or the least word tending thereunto ; wherein I challenge that , {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , the accuser of the brethren himself , whose Scholar I wish not you to be . As for that other passage of your said book ( pag. 39. ) to let passe many other ; as touching your Independent-Pastor , it is as false as slie , do you and your reverend brother try it when you will . An Appendix . WHerein is touched the main point of difference between the two Parties , Classicall or Nationall , and Congregationall : Our brother , Mr. William Pryn , whose latter books ( Truth triumphing , &c. and A fresh Discovery , &c. ) I have meerly ( God is my record ) out of tendernesse to the present state of things , forborn to answer , hath sundry times in those books objected principally those words in my Vindication , concerning Christs kingly office over the Churches and consciences of his people : as in Truth triumphing , pag. 112 , 113. and in his Fresh Discovery , pag. 4. in these words , Mr. Henry Burton , in his Vindication of Churches , commonly called Independent , &c. The Church is a spirituall kingdome , whose only King is Christ , and not man ; it is a spirituall Republique , whose only Law-giver is Christ , and not man : A spirituall house , whose only builder and governour is Christ : A spirituall Corporation , whose only head is Christ , and not man . No man , or power on earth , hath a kingly power over this kingdome ; no earthly Law-giver may give lawes for the government of this Republique ; no man can , or ought , to undertake the government of this communion of Saints ; no humane Power or Law may intermeddle to prescribe rules for the government or form of this spirituall House , NOT COVNCELS , NOT SENATES . This is Christs royall Prerogative , which is uncommunicable to ANY , TO ALL THE POWERS ON EARTH . He addes my words , pag. 60 , 61. Wee challenge you to shew us any Parliament , Councel , Synod , ever since the Apostles , that could , or can say thus , It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us , so to determine controversies of Religion , to make and impose Canons to bind all men , &c. shew this to us at this time , and wee will obey . But if you cannot , as you never can , never let any man presse upon us that Scripture , that Synod , ( Acts 15. ) which hath no parallel in the whole world ; and so is no precedent or pattern for any Councels , Synods , Parliaments . Thus our brother sees down the words , here and there with capitalls , as if so many capitall crimes . But the worst of all is , that he ranks them under the head of his first Section , containing divers seditious , scandalous , libellous passages against the Authority and Jurisdiction of Parliaments , Synods , and temporall Magistrates in generall , in Ecclesiasticall affaires , in the late writings of severall Independent New-lights , and Firebrands ; so runs the Title of the Section , under which hee marshals those my words , as if Christ could not be sole King , Lord , and Law-giver over his own spirituall Kingdome in the soules and assemblies of his Saints , but this doctrine must needs be seditious , scandalous , and the writers thereof libellous , against civill authority , yea , firebrands , and what not ? How more equall was the Heathen Emperor Domitian , though the Author of the second Persecution , who though he laboured utterly to extirpate and extinguish all the naturall kindred of Christ , because hee heard that Christ was a King , fearing thereby the overthrow of his Empire ; yet understanding afterward , by two of Christs neerest kinsmen brought before him , being but poor men , and who got their living by hard labour in husbandrie , how that Christ was a King indeed , but his Kingdome was not of this world , but heavenly : the Emperor hereupon , ( as the Story saith ) {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} , ceased the Persecution against the Church , by calling in his Imperiall Decree . I wish our brother would more seriously consider , not only of this famous example of an Heathen Emperour , but also upon what sound reason it is grounded : as namely , upon such a distinct specificall difference between these two Kingdomes , the celestiall and the terrestriall , as that in no sort they may be confounded , or compounded into one terrene kingdome , unlesse you will set up a Papall power , an Harmophrodite-government , with Ecce duo gladii hîc , Behold here two swords , which the Pope caused to be carryed before him in solemn procession the two first dayes of his new erected Jubilee . And for my challenge alledged by him , it stands good still , till hee can prove those words , in the end of his Truth triumphing , true , where your words are , we cannot but in Christian charity expect and believe , that all the Assembly and Parliament resolve on , may have inscribed on its front , IT SEEMED GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND VS . And then again , you must prove your reason good , whereupon you inferre this conclusion ; namely , because there be in the Parliament and Assembly , at least some true Nathaniels and Stephens , filled with the Holy Ghost , and so many armies of prayers in the Spirit daily sent up to heaven , to bring down that Spirit of truth upon them . But can a few , at least some Nathaniels , among so many , carry the matters by vote , if they be many that contra-vote ? You know things go sometimes in Councels , rather by number then weight , rather by tale , then truth . I doubt , whether if the true Nathaniels and zealous Stephens should bear the sway , it would not well please , at least our brother Bastwicks palate , who altogether condemneth Gamaliel and his counsell , whereby hee perswaded and swayed the whole Synedrion to refrain from Peter and John , for peaching Christ , saving only that they escaped not a scourging . For further answer to my dear brother , I shall forbeare till a fitter season . In the mean time , I shall conclude with the words of my brother Bastwick , which hee delivers as the confession of the faith of the Church of England , concerning Christs kingly office ; and so consequently of his own faith . That Jesus Christ is the only and sole King , and Governour of the whole universe , to whom all power in heaven and earth is given , Matth. 28. but more especially of his Church , who by God himselfe was set King over his holy mountain , Psal. 2. 6. And that hee is King of righteousnesse , Hebr. 7. The King eternall , Isai. 9. The King of kings , and Lord of lords , Apoc. 17. and that he doth by his mighty power and wisdome , uphold and govern all things , but with a more peculiar care , and a more speciall manner preserve and defend his Church , 1 Tim. 4. 10. as that which hee hath purchased with his precious blood , and by his power redeemed out of the captivity and slavery of Satan ; and that he is the head of his Church , which is the body , who infuseth life into it ; righteousnesse , peace , joy , happinesse , and all the graces of wisdome and knowledge of God with certainty and assurance of his love ; and that his Kingdome and Empire is a spirituall and heavenly Kingdome , no terrene and fading Monarchy , Joh. 18. 38. Luke 1. 33. and is upheld and governed ONLY by the Scepter of his Spirit and Word , and not by the authority , vertue or wisdome of any humane power . Thus Dr. Bastwick , and that after all his bitter reproaches cast upon his Independents , who hang all that which he calls Independency upon this sole hinge ; namely , That Christs Kingdome and Empire , is a spirituall and heavenly Kingdome , no terrene and fading Monarchy ; and is upheld and governed ONLY by the Scepter of his Spirit and Word , and not by the authority , vertue or wisdome of any humane power . Now if Dr. Bastwick will hold to his words and writing , he must needs confesse , that Christ is no titular or Pageant Prince ( as before ) but reall and indeed : And therefore his Kingdome is not to be governed according to the various and variable laws and customes of earthly Kingdomes , Common-wealths , Countries ; but by the Only Scepter of his Spirit and Word ; Otherwise the spirituall Kingdome and the temporall must be confounded together , and become one kingdome , and then must either the spirituall become terrene and transitory , or else the temporall become eternall , and so make up one Babylan , Roma aetern● , confusion and blasphemy . And for a close , to satisfie my brother Prynnes Question , What I mean by so much asserting Christs Kingly office , as sole Head , Governour , Law-giver of his Churches , I mean , hee is the sole immediate King . And the proofs are from solid Scripture , the sole rule of faith : As Isai. 8. 20. and 29. 13. Hos. 5. 11. Matth. 15. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. Mar. 7. 7. And our brother confesseth these Scriptures but in part , by joyning thereto the laws and customes of Kingdoms and Common-weals , as a partiall rule , if not rather paramount to the sacred , Canon ; as Rome acknowledgeth the Scripture to be the rule of faith , but partiall , joyning thereto her own traditions ; and so ● thereby , as the Pharisees of old , make the Word of God of no effect , through humane Traditions , Lawes , Decrees , Customes , Manners of men , Prince and People , Protestants and Papists , as well under Queen Mary and her Parliament , as under Queen Elizabeth and hers ; and so Regis ad exemplum : as the Prince and Pope , or State is affected , well or ill , Christs Kingdome , must Chameleon-like , change both complexion and constitution . And if this satisfie not my brother , let him be pleased to reade over my Vindication once again , wherein he may cleerly see , how the Scripture all along sets up Christ as the only Governour and Law-giver of his Church , excluding all humane Wisdome and Power , from intermeddling in the regulating of his Kingdome , by mans Lesbian Rule . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A78034e-390 2 Sam. 20. 9 , 10. * See the Postscript , pag. 44. Prov. 20. 29. & 16. 31. * Jude 5. Rev. 12. 1. Pag. 16. Pag. 18. Cicer. Orat. pro L. Murena . Act. 24. 25 , 26 Joh. 18. 28. Mat. 10. 17 , 18 Pag. 8. 1 Cor. 14. 33 ▪ Platina : in vita Bonifacii 3. * 1. Cor. 12. Page 98. To the second Question . Page 14. Psal. 18. Acts 3. 22 ▪ Acts 2. * Esa. 56. 3. Turpius ejicitur , quàm non admittitur bospes . Page 100 1 Cor. 1. 2. Page 105. Acts 10. Page 115. Homily , second Sermon for Whitsunday . Page 118. * 1 Cor. 5. 4. 1 Sam. 19. Acts 19. 2. * Act. 5. 28. Ibid. * Page 139. * Page 144. * Page 149. Page 149. * Isa. 58. 2. Postsc . Page 68. Ibid. pag. 68. Ibid. Ibid. Psal. 57. 4. Jer. 18. 18. Gal. 4. * Relation of a Conference . Epist. Dedic. Ibid. Defence , pag 4. * Postsc . 41. * Postsc . 12. 32. 34. 36. 38. Page 54. Ibid. 58. Defence p. 30 Postsc . 61. Pag. 66. 69. Pag. 43 , 44 , 45. Page 21. Page ibid. Postscript , pag. 43 , 44. Rev. 12. 10. Eusebius Eccles. Hist. Bon face 8. Acts 15. * D. B. In his Independency not Gods Ordinance , p. 149. Acts 5. 38 , 39 , 40 , 31.