Sir Iohn Eliot his grave and learned speech spoken in the high court of Parliament desiring an orderlie proceeding in matters of religion and that it may not be onely disputed of but firmely established as it ought to be : expressing the misprision and errour whereby Grave and learned speech spoken in the High Court of Parliament desiring an orderlie proceeding in matters of religion Eliot, John, Sir, 1592-1632. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A39222 of text R8658 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing E501). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 9 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A39222 Wing E501 ESTC R8658 12993884 ocm 12993884 96372 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A39222) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 96372) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 259:E198, no 19) Sir Iohn Eliot his grave and learned speech spoken in the high court of Parliament desiring an orderlie proceeding in matters of religion and that it may not be onely disputed of but firmely established as it ought to be : expressing the misprision and errour whereby Grave and learned speech spoken in the High Court of Parliament desiring an orderlie proceeding in matters of religion Eliot, John, Sir, 1592-1632. [8] p. Printed for V.V., London : 1641. Reproduction of original in Thomason Collection, British Library. eng Great Britain -- Religion -- 17th century. A39222 R8658 (Wing E501). civilwar no Sir Iohn Eliot his grave and learned speech spoken in the High Court of Parliament. Desiring an orderlie proceeding in matters of religion, Eliot, John, Sir 1641 1797 4 0 0 0 0 0 22 C The rate of 22 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-06 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-08 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2003-08 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion SIR IOHN ELIOT HIS GRAVE AND LEARNED SPEECH Spoken in the High Court of PARLIAMENT . Desiring an orderlie Proceeding in Matters of Religion , and that it may not be onely disputed of , but firmely established , as it ought to be . Expressing the Misprision and Errour , whereby his Majesty is traduced by evill Members about him . And the great danger of over-whelming that we were in , by the Bishops Articles , and their Proceedings . Exhorting to maintaine our King , Country and Religion , even with the sword against all Opposers . With a Motion propounded , for laying downe of the Grounds , wherein the Arminians and wee differ . SIR JOHN ELIOT HIS Grave and Learned Speech in Parliament . I Have alwayes observed in the proceedings of this House , that our best advantage is in order , and I was very glad , when that noble Gentleman , my Country-man , gave occasion to stay our proceedings ; for I feare , it would have carryed us into a sea of confusion , and disorder , J having now occasion to present to you in this great & weighty matter of Religion : I shall be bold to give you a short expression of mine owne affection , and in that order , that I hope will conduce to the effecting of our worke , and direct our labour to an end . To enter into a particular discussion of the writing of the opinion of the Divines , I feare , it will involve us into a Labyrinth , wee shall hardly get out , and perchance , hinder the way , and darken the path , in which we must tread . Before we know what other men have declared , it is necessary wee should presently lay down what is the truth . And , as I presume , we come not hither now to dispute of religion , farre be it from the thoughts of this church , that have thus long continued , and confessed now to dispute . Shall posterity think , that we have enjoyed our Religion fourescore yeares almost , and are now doubtfull of the sense ? God forbid . It may be , Sir , out of something lately delivered , I have not unnecessarily collected , that there is a jealosie conceived , as if wee went to deale in matters of Faith ; it is our profession : this is not to be disputed ; neither will that truth be receded from this long time held , nor is that truth decaied . It is confirmed by Parliament , because it was truth . And in this , before J shall come to deliver my self more particularly , give me leave , that have not yet spoken in this great cause , to give some apprehensions that J have of few ; for it is not in the Parliament to make a new religion , nor J hope shall it be in any to alter the body of that truth we now professe . I must confesse , Sir , among all the feares we have contracte● , there ariseth to me not one of the least dangers in the Declaration , which is made & published in his Majesties name . And yet notwithstanding this Conclusion exclusively , let me say , that I may not be mistaken , that either in that , or other things shall appeare to carry mention of his Majesty . We have not the least jealousie in him , we have that comfort in his piety and goodnes , as if there be any misprision or 〈…〉 is by those Ministers about him , wch not onely 〈◊〉 but all Princes are subject unto . And to cleere that Princes are subject to misinformation , and many actions may bee intituled to their owne names , when there is no suspition of it to be done by themselves : but give mee leave to looke back to presidents of other times , and what I find in other storyes , may be usefull in these . Antiochus of Asia sent Letters unto his Provinces , if they received any dispatches in his name , not agreeable to Justice , Ignoto se literus esse scriptas , ideoque non parerent , I find by Plutarch of the great King Antiochus of Asia , who saith , that Princes are obnoxious to abuses of Ministers , and it could not at all times be prevented : therefore he sent Messengers , that Letters , or Dispatches sent in his name , that were not warrantable by Law , and agreeable to Justice , should not be conceived to bee done by him , and therefore they should not give way unto it . Sir , I find another booke , and I beseech you , let it be apprehended ; for I hope I shall cleere some misprisions . Gratian did not onely note and confesse the same , but added the reason also , which the Masters of the Civill Law can also testifie , from their bookes wherein it is thus expressed , Quod inveretundia potentium in instigation● , principes saepe restringuntur ut non concedenda concedant ; because that oftentimes with importunity of Ministers , & those about them , Princes are drawne to grant things not fit to be granted . As it was in that , so it may be in this , I speake it to this end , to draw this conclusion ; that if there bee any thing that carryes the title of his Majesty , it may bee the fault of his Ministers : far be it from me to have any suspition of him . And now to that particular , in the Declaration , wherein I confesse , it is an apprehension of more feare , then I have in all the rest ; for in the rest of the particulars , we heard what was said of popery and Arminianisme . It is true , our faith and religion is in danger , but it is by degrees . Here , Sir like an inundation doth breake in at once , that we are in danger to be ruined & overwhelmed . For I beseech you , mark the ground of our religion , it is contained in the body of these Articles . If there be any difference of opinion concerning the sense and interpretation , the Bithops & Clergy in the Convocation , have power admitted them to do any thing that shall concerne the continuance , & maintainance of the truth professed , which truth being contained in these Articles , and these being different in the sense : so as if there be any dispute about it , it is in them to order which way they please : and for ought I know , to Popery , or Arminianisme , may be a sense introduced by them , and then it must be received . Js this a sleight thing , that the power of religion must be drawn to the persons of these men ? J honour their profession , and honour the persons ; but give me leave to say the truth , what wee professe , is not mens but Gods : And God forbid , man should be judg of that truth . Look upon the conclusion they have made , and from thence J draw their Arguments . J remember a Character I have seene in a Dyary of Edw. the 6. that young Prince of famous memory , wherein he doth expresse the condition of the Bishops and Clergy of his time , and saith under his owne hand-writing ; that some for sloath , some for age , some for ignorance , some for luxury , and some for Popery , were unfit for Discipline and Government . Sir , I would it were not so with us , nay give me leave to vindicate the honour of those men , that openly shew their hearts to the truth . There have bin Bishops , such who were fit to be made examples to all ages , who have shone in vertue like those two faithfull witnesses in heaven , of whom we may use that Elegy , which Seneca did of Cami●s that to their memory and merits , Ne hoc quidem obstet , quod nostris temporibus nati sunt . To whose glory , I may use the saying , others faults are no prejudice to their vertue , who are so industrious in their works . But that ours now , are not such , so free , sound , & Orthodox in religion , as they should be : Witnesse the man nominated lately . I apprehend such fear , that should it be in their power , we may be in danger to have our religion overthrown : but I give this for testimony . And thus far to expresse my religion , against all the power or opposition of these men , or whatsoever opposition shall be , we shall still maintaine that religion we professe , for that we have bin born and bred in , nay if cause be , in that to dye . Some of these , Sir , are Masters of Ceremonies , and they labour to introduce new Ceremonies into the Church , I hope wee should draw our swords , to defend our Prince , Country , and religion , against all Opposers . This I speake out of the care I have to preserve the honour of our King against them , who by these Innovations , I feare , have fought to undermine it . But to come to the manner and method of our proceeding , having made this expression : wherein if I have transgressed the rule propounded , I crave your pardon . I desire to avoid confusion , and distraction , and that wee may goe presently to the ground of our Religion , and lay downe that rule , wherein all others rest ; and when that is done , it will be time to take into consideration the Breakers and Offenders against this rule in the next place ; for before wee have laid downe that , our worke will be in vaine . Therefore lay downe the profession wherein we differ from Arminianisme , and in that I shall be ready to deliver my opinion . And this is my humble Motion . FINIS .