A most worthy speech of the truly honourable and worthy member of the House of Commons Sir Edward Deering knight and baronet spoken in Parliament concerning the lyturgy of the Church of England and for a nationall synod. Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A35734 of text R13328 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing D1114). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 11 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A35734 Wing D1114 ESTC R13328 13018895 ocm 13018895 96612 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A35734) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 96612) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 259:E200, no 44) A most worthy speech of the truly honourable and worthy member of the House of Commons Sir Edward Deering knight and baronet spoken in Parliament concerning the lyturgy of the Church of England and for a nationall synod. Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644. [2], 6 p. Printed for Iohn Franke ..., London : 1642. Reproduction of original in Thomason Collection, British Library. eng Church of England -- Liturgy. Great Britain -- Religion -- 17th century -- Sources. A35734 R13328 (Wing D1114). civilwar no A most worthy speech of the truly honourable and worthy member of the House of Commons, Sir Edward Deering knight and baronet. Spoken in Par Dering, Edward, Sir 1642 2151 3 5 0 0 0 0 37 D The rate of 37 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-01 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2004-01 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A most worthy SPEECH Of the truly Honourable and worthy Member of the House of COMMONS , Sir Edward Deering Knight and Baronet . Spoken in Parliament . Concerning the Lyturgy of the Church of England , and for a Nationall Synod . LONDON , Printed for Iohn Franke , and are to bee sold at his shop under the Kings head at Chancery-lanes end in Fleet-street , 1642. Sir Edward Deering's SPEECH in Parliament , concerning the Liturgy of the Church of England , and a Nationall Synod . Master Speaker , THe Question is , whether this clause concerning some pretended erroneous passages in our Liturgie shall be laid by or not . I am of opinion to decline them here , but not to bury them in perpetuall silence . In this period , you give us ( in generall termes ) a promise of a Nationall Synod : I doe still wish the presence of it ; It being ( to my understanding ) the onely proper cure and remedy for all our Church distractions . The promised Synod is too farre off ; let me have better assurance than a promise , which that I may obtaine , I will be bold to give you reasons to induce that Assembly , and speed it also . M. Speaker , Much hath been said , and something attempted to be done , to regulate the exterior part of Religion : but Sir , we bleed inwardly ; much endeavour hath been to amend the deformed formes , and to new govern the government . Yet Sir , this is but the leaves of good Religion ; fit ( I confesse ) notwithstanding to be taken care of , for beauty and ornament : Nay some leaves are fit and necessary to be preserved for shadowes and for shelter to the blossomes and the fruit . The fruit of all is a good life , which you must never expect to see unlesse the blossomes be pure and good ; that is , unlesse your Doctrine be sound and true . Sir , I speak it with full griefe of heart , whilst we are thus long pruning and composing of the leaves , or rather whilst some would pluck all leaves away , our blossomes are blasted , and whilst wee sit here in cure of Government and Ceremonies , we are poysoned in our Doctrinals : And on whose doore will the guilt and sinne of all this lie . Qui non vetat peccare cum potest , jubet . Senec. It is true that this mischiefe growes not by our consent , and yet I know not by what unhappy fate , there is at present such an all-daring liberty , such a lewd licensiousnesse for venting all mens severall sences ( sencelesse sences ) in Religion , as never was in any age , in any Nation , untill thi● present Parliament was met together . Sir , It belongs to us to take hee● , that our countenancing ( the countenance of this Honourable House ) bee not prostituted to sinister ends by bold offenders : If it be in our power to give a remedy , a timely and a seasonable remedy to these dangerous evils , and if wee ( being also put in minde ) shall neglect to doe it , we pluck their sinnes on our own heads . Alienum qui fert scelus , facit suum . Seneca . Shall I be bold to give you a very few instances ? one for a hundred , wherewith our Pulpits and our Presses doe groane . 1 Mr. Speaker , There is a certain new-borne , unseen , ignorant , dangerous , desperate way of independency : Are we Sir , for this Independency ? Nay Sir , are wee for the elder brother of it , the Presbyteriall forme ? I have not yet heard any one Gentleman within these walls stand up and assert his thoughts here for either of these wayes : And yet Sir , wee are made the Patrons , and Protectors of these so different , so repugnant innovations , witnes the severall dedications to us . Nay , both these wayes , together with the Episcopall , come rushing in upon us , every one pretending a forehead of Divinity . 1 Episcopacy sayes it is by Divine right , and certainly Sir , it comes much neerer to its claime than any other . 2 Presbyterie , that saith it is by Divine right . 3 Nay , this illegittimate thing , this new borne Independency , that dares to say it is by Divine right also . Thus the Church of England ( not long since the glory of the reformed Religion ) is miserably torne and distracted ; whither shall we turne for cure ? 2 Another instance ; If I would deale with a Papist , to reduce him , hee answers , ( I have been answerd so already ) To what Religion would you perswade me ? what is the Religion you professe ? your 39 Articles , they are contested against ; your publique solemne Liturgy that is detested ; and , which is more than both these , the three essentiall , proper , and only marks of a true Church , they are protested against : what Religion would you perswade me to ? where may I finde and know , and see , and read the Religion you professe ? I beseech you Sir , help me an answer to this Papist . Nay Sir , the Papist herein hath assistance even amongst our selves , and doth get the tongues of some men , whose hearts are farre from them : For at one of our Committees I heard it publikely asserted by one of that Committee , that some of our Articles doe containe some things contrary to holy Scripture . 3 Mr. Speaker , Sunday is a Sabbath : Sunday is no Sabbath : both true , both untrue in their severall acceptations , and the knot ( I think ) too hard for our teeth . Shall I give you an easier instance . 4 Some say it is lawfull to kneel at receiving the elements of our holy Communion : others plead it as expedient : some do presse it as necessary : and there wants not others who abhorre it as idolatrous . And Sir , I am confident you cannot so state this easie Question to passe amongst us , but that there will be many Contradicentes . 5 The second Epistle of St Peter is now newly denyed to be the Apostles ; our Creed , the holy Apostles Creed , is now disputed , denyed , inverted , and exploded by some who would be thought the best Christians amongst us : I startled with wonder and with anger , to heare a bold mechanick tell mee that my Creed is not my Creed : he wondred at my wonder , and said , I hope your Worship is too wise to beleeve that which you call your Creed . O Deus bone , in quae tempora reservati nos ! Policarp . Thus {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} . Arist. One absurdity leads in a thousand . And when you are downe the hill of errour , there is no bottome but in hell , and that is bottomelesse too . 6 Sir , shall I be bold to give one ( and but one ) instance more ? Much clamor now there is against our publike Lyturgy , though hallowed with the blood of some of the first composers of it . And surely Sir , some parts of it may be very well corrected ; but the clamors now goe very high , Impudence or ignorance is now grown so frontlesse , that it is lowdly expected by many , that you should utterly abrogate all formes of publique worship : extirpation of Episcopacy , that hope is already swallowed ; and now some men are as greedy for the abolishing of the Liturgy ; that so the Church of England in her publique prayers , nay her offerture , may be as a babler at all adventures : A brainlesse , stupid , and an ignorant conceit of some . Mr Speaker , The wisdome of this House will ( I am confident ) never sink so low , never fall into such a delinquency of Iudgement an● piety : when you do , I shall humbly submit my selfe unto the stake and faggot , ( I meane ) for certainly Sir , I shall then be a Parliament Heretick . Thus much for a taste of that whereof there is too much abroad : For the divisions of Reuben , there are great things of that abroad . Sir , Thus are we engaged , enclosed in poynts of Divinity , and with the favour of that Gentleman who did last time discusse it , I must againe propound my doubtfull Quere to bee resolved by the wisedome of this House ; Whether we be Idonei & competentes Judices , in doctrinall resolutions ? In my opinion we are not : Let us maintaine the Doctrine established in the Church of England ; it will be neither safety nor wisedome for us to determine new . Sir , I doe againe repeate and avow my former words , and doe confidently affirme , that it was never seene not knowne in any Age , in any Nation throughout the world , that a set of Lay-men , Gentlemen , Souldiers , Lawyers of both gownes , Physitians , Merchants , Citizens , all Professions admitted , or at least admittable , but the Professors of Religion alone excluded , than we should determine upon Doctrine Divinity . Shall the Clergy hold different Doctrine from us or shall our determination binde them also ? They are a considerable body in the Kingdome . They are herein surely as much concerned as wee , and ought not to bee bound up unheard and unpartied . Further Sir , if Clergy-men amongst us be thought fit for no other than for Spirituall emploiment , how shall we answer it to God and a good conscience , if we shut them out of that which we our selves pretend to be their onely and their proper work . Mr. Speaker , We cannot brag of an unerring Spirit : Infallibility is no more tied to your chaire , than to the Popes . And if I may speake truth , as I love truth with clearnesse , and with plainenesse , I do here ingenuously professe unto you , that I shall not acquiesse , and sit downe upon the Doctrinall resolutions of this House , unlesse it be where my owne genius doth lead and prompt me to the same conclusions . Mr. Speaker , We are here convened by his Majesties writ to treat Super arduis negotiis Regni & Ecclesiae , I beseech you let us not turne Negotia Ecclesiae into Dogmata fidei : There is a great difference in objecto between the Agends and the Credends of a Christian : let us so take care to settle the Government , that we do not unsettle the doctrines . The short close of all with a motion , is but this : We are poisoned in many points of Doctrine , and I know no Antidote , no Recipe for cure but one : A well chosen and a well tempered Nationall Synod , and Gods blessing thereon : This may cure us , and without this ( in my poore opinion ) England is like to turne it selfe into a great Amsterdam , and unlesse this Councell be very speedy , the Disease will be above the Cure . Therefore that wee may have a full fruition of what is here but promisde , I do humbly move that you will command forth the Bill for a Nationall Synod , to bee read the next morning . I saw the Bill above five months since in the hand of a worthy Member of this House ; if that Bill be not to be had , then my humble motion is ( as formerly ) that you would name a Committee to draw up another . This being once resolved , I would then desire that all motions of Religion ( this about the Liturgy especially ) may be transferred thither ; and you will finde it to be the way of peace and unity amongst us here . FINIS .