A vindication of the imprisoned and secluded Members of the House of Commons, from the aspersions cast upon them, and the majority of the House, in a paper lately printed and published: intituled, An humble answer of the Generall Councel of the officers of the Army under his Excellency Thomas Lord Fairfax, to the demands of the Honourable Commons of England in Parliament assembled: concerning the late securing or secluding some Members thereof. Prynne, William, 1600-1669. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A91317 of text R7280 in the English Short Title Catalog (Thomason E539_5). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 77 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A91317 Wing P4128 Thomason E539_5 ESTC R7280 99873104 99873104 125558 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A91317) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 125558) Images scanned from microfilm: (Thomason Tracts ; 84:E539[5]) A vindication of the imprisoned and secluded Members of the House of Commons, from the aspersions cast upon them, and the majority of the House, in a paper lately printed and published: intituled, An humble answer of the Generall Councel of the officers of the Army under his Excellency Thomas Lord Fairfax, to the demands of the Honourable Commons of England in Parliament assembled: concerning the late securing or secluding some Members thereof. Prynne, William, 1600-1669. 8, 7-30 [i.e. 34] p. Printed for Michael Spark an [sic] the blue Bible in Green-Arbour, London : 1649. Attributed to William Prynne. A reply to "The humble answer of the General Councel of officers of the Army, under His Excellencie, Thomas, Lord Fairfax", dated 3 Jan. 1649. The last four pages are numbered 25, 24, 29, 28. Annotation on Thomason copy: "Jan: 23 1648". Reproduction of the original in the British Library. eng England and Wales. -- Army. -- Council. England and Wales. -- Parliament. -- House of Commons -- Expulsion -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- Politics and government -- 1642-1649 -- Early works to 1800. A91317 R7280 (Thomason E539_5). civilwar no A vindication of the imprisoned and secluded Members of the House of Commons, from the aspersions cast upon them, and the maiority of the Ho Prynne, William 1649 12937 121 0 0 0 0 0 94 D The rate of 94 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-02 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2007-03 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-05 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2007-05 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A VINDICATION OF THE Imprisoned and Secluded MEMBERS OF THE House of Commons , From the ASPERSIONS cast upon them , and the MAIORITY of the House , in a paper lately printed and published : INTITVLED , An Humble Answer of the Generall Councel of the Officers of the Army under his Excellency THOMAS Lord FAIRFAX , TO THE Demands of the Honourable Commons of ENGLAND in Parliament Assembled : Concerning The late Securing or Secluding some MEMBERS thereof . PSAL. 27. 5 , 6. Commit thy way unto the Lord , trust also in him , and he shall bring it to passe . And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light , and thy judgement as the noon-day . LONDON , Printed for Michael Spark an the blue Bible in Green-Arbour . 1649. A Vindication of the imprisoned and secluded Members of the House of Commons , from the Aspersions cast upon them and the Majority of the House in a Paper lately printed and published : Intituled , An humble Answer of the Generall Councel of the Officers of the Army , &c. to the Demands of the Honourable the Commons of England , &c. AFter our being secluded , and some of us imprisoned , and detained from our Service in the House of Commons ( of which we are Members ) now for above six weeks space ; finding a paper published in print against us , wherein we are reproached with the names of Traitors , Apostates , Self-servers , corrupt Members , and divers other aspersions of the like nature charged upon us ; We are enforced ( for our Vindication , and which is dearer to us , the Vindication of the Freedom and Honour of the Parliament , and for preventing the matters suggested against us in that Paper from abusing those by whom we are entrusted , who might judge us guilty , if should be silent ) to make this ensuing Answer to that paper . In the Preamble of this Answer , by way of Accompt , concerning the securing some Members , and secluding others ; It appears by the Proposals of the sixth of December , the late Declaration and Remonstrance therein cited , That this designe to break the House by force hath been long since plotted and contrived , though not executed untill now . Which Action the General Councel of the Army in their Answer say , We acknowledge it to be a Course in it self irregular , and not justifiable but both by honest intentions for publick good , and an extraordinary Necessity for the same end leading us thereunto . These being the two pillars upon which is laid the whole weight of the justification of the Army in this extraordinary and ( we beleeve ) unparallell'd course of proceedings ; We shall apply our selves to discover the weaknesse and unsoundness of them both . For our more clear proceedings herein , we shall first state the Case which is endeavoured by this paper to be justified . They are an Armie raised and formed by Ordinance of Parliament of the 15 of February 1644 , for the defence of the King and Parliament , and true Protestant Religion , the Laws and Liberties of the Kingdom ; and to be from time to time subject to such Orders and Directions as they shall receive from both Houses of Parliament . And for that end they stand commissionated by them , and receive pay from them at this day . And besides the Trust they hereby have assumed , they are under the obligation of a solemn Covenant sworn to Almighty God , That they will in their places and callings ; with sincerity , reality and constancy , with their estates and lives , preserve the Rights and Priviledges of the Parliament , and the Liberties of the Kingdome ; and defend the Kings person and Authority in the defence of the true Religion and Liberties of the Kingdom . They being under these Trusts and ? Obligations by and to the Houses , with their Arms , contrary to their Orders , marched into Westminster , and without any order from them , they placed some of their Regiments at and about the door of the House of Commons upon the sixth and seventh of December last , and there ( with a List of the names of divers Members of the House ) their Officers and Souldiers ( appointed for that purpose ) forcibly secluded some , seized upon , imprisoned , and detained others from their attendance of the House , and occasioned many others to absent themselves . The Question now is , Whether any thing in this paper can justifie this Action of theirs , either upon the good Intentions or Necessity pretended therein . This being the point in Issue , which they affirm , and we deny : We shall now proceed to consider their grounds . For their good Intentions , which cannot be known to us but by their expressions and actions , they referre us to their Proposals , Declarations and Remonstrances : where wee finde their desires are to take away the Kings life , to take away the lives of the Prince and the Duke of York ; at least , to dis-inherit both them and all the Kings children ; to put a period to this Parliament ; to set up a new Representative , which takes away all Parliaments ; to have an elective King , if any . These are the intentions for publick good , which must come in to help their actions , that are confessed to be otherwise irregular and unjustifiable . We think the very naming of them doth manifest , that they are apparantly against the Laws of God , and the Laws of the Kingdom under which they live , and have no justification for themselves , much lesse any to spare for their actions ; whereof we leave the whole Kingdome ( for whose good , as said , these Intentions are ) to be judges . And we shall produce no other witnesse to prove this , but themselves . On the 15 of November , 1647 , the paper called The Agreement of the people , which is somewhat lower then these which they call Intentions for publick good , was condemned by the Army ; the promoting of it judged capitall , Colonel Rainshorough and Major Scot complained of by them to the House for appearing in it , and the paper it self then adjudged by the House destructive to Government , and the being of Parliament . And upon this their evidence against themselves we leave this point . And to proceed to the other ground of their justification , viz. Extraordinary Necessity , which is laid down in their paper thus : After they have brought in their good intentions for their justification , ( and what those are , we have cited out of their own papers , to which they refer us , ) it is then added , And an extraordinary Necessity for the same and leading us thereunto . It appears in the first opening of this necessity , of what nature it is , that tends to such ends as they referre it . But for the better disquisition thereof , before we come to the particulars to set forth this necessity in this paper , we shall lay down some generall Observations and Conclusions concerning this their Plea . 1. The Army made the very same plea of extraordinary necessity in their Remonstrance June 23. 1647 , that now is made in this paper , upon quite contrary grounds then what they expresse now ; and both to justifie the same extraordinary violent proceedings against the Parliament : differing onely in degrees , this later worse then the former . Then when the King was seized upon by a party of the Army , without Order from the House , and the Army advanced against the Parliament , they say in their Letter to the House July the 8 , 1647 , There have been severall Officers of the Armie , upon severall occasions sent to his Majestie : The first , to present to him a Copy of the Representations ; and after that , some others to tender him a Copie of the Remonstrance : upon b●th which the Officers sent were appointed to ●leer the sense and intentions of any thing in either paper whereupon his Majestie might make any question . There they treated with the King ; and now they offer violence to the Parliament for treating with the King . Then in their Remonstrance Ju● . 23. 1647 , it is said , We ch●rly professe , we do not see how there can be any peace to this Kingdom firms or lasting , without a due consideration of , and provision for the Rights , quiet and Immunities of his Majesties Royall Family , and his late partakers . Now they judge the Majority of the House corrupt , and proceed violently against them for moving one step towards a peace with the King , though he hath granted more then all their Proposals , and make this a necessity sharp enough to justifie the using of their swords contrary to their Commissions . This were cause enough to make the unsoundnesse of this plea of necessity appear to all the world , and even to be suspected by themselves , that serves to justifie contradictions which they are put to , by making themselve Judgess of those things they have no calling to meddle with ; and taking them out of those hands to whom of right it belongs to judge them . 2. This plea of necessity which is made in this paper , is destructive to all Government . For by the same reason that the General Officer urgeth necessity for acting against the command and persons of his Superiours , and makes himself Judge of that necessity ; the inferiour Officer may urge the same necessity in his judgement to act against the commands of his Generall ; and the Souldiers may urge the like for acting against their Officers ; and any other 20000 men in the Kingdom to act against the Army ; and this Army to act ( as against this Parliament , so ) against any other Government of Representative that shall be set up ; and so in infinitum . 3. Did the Members of Parliament proceed in Parliament contrary to their trust in the judgement of those that did elect them : yet it is manifest , that the power of advising , voting and acting being placed in the Members of Parliament by the Law of the Land , and ancient Rights of Parliament , they are not accountable , much lesse censurable for the use of it according to their own judgment and consciences , though contrary to theirs that chose them . They are only in such cases accountable to , and censurable by the House ; which they could not reasonably be , if they were cens●rable by the people that sent them . For then the Parliament might judge that good service , which the Electors judge evill : & è convers● , the Electors may judge that evill which the House may judge to be good ; and so no man can be safe or free in the service of the Parliament . But were power and trust placed in the Members of Parliament by law , only to be used or not used , valid or null , at the Electors judgment ; yet in such case the Members of Parliament were only accountable to the Counties , Cities or Boroughs for which they serve ; and not to Strangers : and in no case are they accountable to the Army ; who are so far from being those from whom they received their Trust , that they are only persons in a subordinate Trust under them , for their defence from force . Which how well they have performed , we leave to the judgment of all those who observe their present proceedings . 4. These actions , which they undertake to justifie , are contrary not onely to their trust , but to the express letter of the Covenant and Protestation which they have taken . And breach of Oath being a morall evill , it is not to be justified by necessity and good intentions . Saul , though a King and thereby qualified to do justice ; yet for executing the Gibeonites against a Covenant made many hundred yeers before , and gained subtilly by the Gibeonites , who were not of the children of Israel , but of the remnant of the Amorites ( with whom he might presume to be more bold ; ) and though he did this in his zeal to the children of Israel and Judah ; yet this necessity in his judgment , for publick good , could not warrant him ; God brought a Famine upon the Land for this breach of Covenant , which ceased not untill it was expiated by the death of seven of his sons that did commit it . See here by this instance what legacy they by their present actions may leave to their posterity . Having thus laid down these considerations of this plea of Necessity in generall , it thereby appears , should we say no more , though we should be guilty of the ●ensuing particulars with which we are charged , yet they could not be innocent , nor justified in what they have done against us . But for 〈◊〉 furth●● clec●●●g , and their further conviction , we come now to enquil● in●● those particulars in this Paper , in which they h●ld forth the necessity that must bear them one ; wherein the question betwixt us , admitting necessity , would justifie th●●● proceedings is thus ; Whether that which is assigned in the particulars following in their Paper , be that necessity wherein we shall joyn issue with them , and freely put it to tryall upon the particulars following , which are six in number . But before we enter upon them , we must take notice of what is said from the end of the second page of their Paper , unto the end of the fift page , wherein are used many words to shew how the Majority of the House came to be formed to serve the Kings , and other corrupt Interests . The sum of all which is , That by the endeavours of some whom they call old Malignant Members , and by the practises used in the new Elections , there came in a flood of new Burgesses , that either are Malignants or Ne●ters . To which we answer , That what is done by the majority of the House , it is the act of the whole House ; so what is done against the majority of the House is done against the whole House : And to the Charge against the new Burgesses , as it is cleer , the Ordinance for new Elections was not carried by those we call old Malignants , ( if there be any such in the House ) except the major part of the House was alwayes Malignants , and before the new Election so , for the Members which came in upon the new Election , which are called Neuters or Malignants in generall , without fixing upon any one particular Member , to which a 〈◊〉 all in generall were sufficient : Yet we shall further adde , that of all those Members of the new Election , that are secluded or imprisoned , we know none but whose Elections are allowed by the House , and who are proper Judges thereof ; and who either by their services as Souldiers for the Parliament , or in their Committees , or otherwise by imminent services or sufferings in their Cause , gave a testimony of their faithfulnesse to the Parliament before they were elected , which may free them from the name of Neuters and Malignants . And it were not hard to shew that many Officers of the Army who came in upon the last Elections , are chosen by those places where they were scarce known , and wherein they have no interest of their own ; and by what other influence they obtained those Elections , we leave it to themselves to judge , 〈◊〉 whom it is best known ; and so come to the first of those six particulars , wherein is assigned the extraordinary necessity to justifie their proceedings in their own words . First , The betraying of IRELAND into the enemies bands by recalling the Lord Lisle from his command there , and putting the best part of that Kingdom , and where the Parliament had the strongest footing , ( Munster ) into the hands of Inchequin a native Irish man , who hath since revolted from the Parliament , hath lately united with the Irish Rebels , and with them and Ormond again , engaged with the King . To which we answer ; That if Munster be that part of Ireland wherein the Parliament had the best interest , the Lord Inchequin did come in himself , and bring that interest to the Parliament , whom he served against the Irish Rebels , and preserved a possession in Munster for the Parliament , during the heat of their Wars in England , when they had little other interest in Ireland , and lesse means to relieve them out of England . That the Lord Lisle was not recalled from his command there , but his Commission for Lord Lieutenant of Ireland expiring about the fifteenth of April 1647. his Lordship on the seventeenth of April took shipping for England . After the Lord Lisles departure out of Munster , the Lord Inchequin proceeded successively against the Rebels , and took from them many considerable Forts and Castles ; the Garrison of Oramanagh , Capp●quin , the Town and Castle of Dungarvan , the Castle of Calur , and others ▪ And upon the fourteenth of November following , at the battell of Knocknowes he obtained one of the greatest Victories that ever was gotten over the Rebels Army , under the command of the Lord Taff , wherein were taken of the enemies Horse two hundred , slain of the Foot four thousand ▪ Officers taken prisoners sixty eight , Arms fix thousand , the Lieutenant generall slain : For all which , we refer the Reader to the Letters and Papers concerning these severall services presented to the House , and by their Orders published in print . These were such testimonies of his reality to the Parliament long after the Lord Lisles coming out of Munster ; that the House did not call it into question , and nothing to the contrary appeared to the Houses untill the third of April 1648. The Army here having disputed the Parliaments Commands , the Lord Inchequin began to enter into Remonstrances and engagements against the Parliament , for which he made the Remonstrances , Engagements and Declarations of the Army the Summer before , both the Cause and President ; as by the Relation made to the House , published in print , doth appear . We mention not these things in the least measure to justifie the Lord Inchequins revolt from the Parliament , but have onely related the truth of the matter of fact , for our own justification against the Charge in this Paper , of betraying Munster ; and we leave to the Reader to judge , whether the Army hath cause to complain of us , or reflect upon themselves for the losse of Munster : and proceed to the second particular , viz. Their endeavours to bring in the King upon his own Terms , without satisfaction and security to the Kingdom , viz. upon his Message of the twelfth of May 1647. and to this end , with so manifest injustice and indignity , to di●band the Army , before any Peace made or assured . For the engagement of the twelft of May , it is well known the House of Commons upon the first knowledge of that engagement voted it to be treasonable , and afterwards both Houses by Ordinance of the seventeenth of December 1647. put 〈◊〉 inc●patity , upon all those in or about the City of London , that entred into , or contrived , acted or ●●etted that engagement , of bearing any Office in the City of London for that yeer ; which we take to be a sufficient Evidence to prove us herein a right majority , as in other parts of their Paper , they take the Votes of the House to prove us a corrupt majority : The Charge here lying onely in generall , and not fixed upon any particular . Yet for our further cleering , besides the Testimony we have given against the bringing in the King upon any such tearms , by our continued insisting upon far higher tearms , to which the King hath agreed in the late Treaty ; we doe every one of us for our selves respectively , professe our utter dislike of that engagement , or any endeavour to bring in the King upon any engagement made or contrived without the House . And for what is said concerning disbanding of the Army , we say , that the Votes of the House , that eight Regiments of Foot , four of Horse , and one of Dragoons should be sent out of the Army to Ireland , which was desired might be in one entire Body , and their resolution to contain ten thousand Foot , and five thousand four hundred Horse , under the command of the Lord Fairfax , for the necessary defence of the Kingdom , ( as the state of affairs then stood in England and Ireland ) as it was to no such end , as is alledged , but for the relieving of poor distressed Protestants in I●eland , the easing of the heavy pressures lying upon the poor people of this Kingdom , and an honourable and fit imploying the Forces of that Army to prevent the high Distempers that since have ensued , so as it was no injustice nor indignity to the Armie . To the third Article , viz. That they endeavoured to protect the eleven impeached Members from justice , and endeavouring with them to raise a new War . We say , that as we desire no other protection then our own innocency , and the Laws under which we live , so we never gave any other protection to the eleven Members , then what stood with Law and Justice . And for the mislending of two hundred thousand pounds , or the greatest part thereof , which w●● designed chiefly for Ireland : We say , that about eighty thousand pound of that money was paid to Mast●●Nicholas Loftus and others for the service of Ireland and above fifty thousand pound to the Treasurers at Wa● , for the Army ; which might with more reason be said to be misimployed , in regard there is an establishment for their pay another way , unlesse part of the Army had gone to do Ireland service for that money : then what the Reformado Officers and Souldiers , who obeyed the Orders of the House for disbanding , who received , pressed the more earnestly upon the House for part of their Arrears , after their Declarations and Remonstrances by the Army , for satisfying the Arrears of all the Souldiers in the Kingdom were published . For the fourth Article , their countenancing , abetting , and partaking wish the tumultuous violence of the Apprentices and others against both Houses of Parliament . It seems strange to us , when they had this in their thoughts to charge it as a Crime upon us , they did not think of what themselves are doing , and much more that they should urge the force offered to the House then ( which they declared horrid and treasonable ; ) to justifie the violence offered to the House by them , of a far higher nature . If it were a crim in the Apprentices , why do the Army the same thing ? If it were no Crime , why doe they complain of Us for abetting and partaking with it ? wherefore , We say , that there is not the least colour or shadow of truth ; and doe every one of Us for Our selves respectively utterly deny it . And for setting up a new Speaker , the House of Commons did no more then what in all ages hath been their undoubted right to do in the case of want of a Speaker . And as to the Ordinances and Votes then passed , We should make a particular Answer thereunto , but that by the Ordinance of the 20. of Aug. following , they are made void and null in themselves , which silences Us for the present . For the fifth Article , The holding correspondency , ingaging and assisting the tumultuous Petitioners last Spring , the rebellious Ins●●rections in Kent , the revolted Ships , and Prince of Wales , and with the Scots Armie . We do every one of Us for our selvel respectively denie the having any hand therein . Having thus given Our Answers to those Five particulars wherein the necessity is assigned , by which they endeauour to justifie their proceedings against Us ; Wee leave it to the judgment of their owne Consciences , whether they doe not bear witnesse within them , that in all these particulars they have groundlesly accused Us of those things of which they for the most part are guilty , and know Us to be innocent . In these we have used the more brevitie , that We might be the more large upon the sixt Section of the Paper ; wherein they say , That when the Army was dispersed and engaged in severall parts of the Kingdome in opposing the Enemies , suppressing the troubles these men had raised ; and when many faithfull Members of Parliament were employed abroad upon necessary publique services , and others , through malignant tumults about the Citie , could not with safetie attend the House , then the corrupt and apostatizing party taking advantage of these distractions and diversions , which themselves had caused ; first recalled in those Members , &c. then they recalled those Votes for non-addresses , and Voted a Personall Treatie with the King . To all which scandalous aspersions Wee Answer : That they are altogether groundlesse ; if there were any reality in what they would here insinuate , That the proceedings of this Treaty were not by the Concurrrence of the House , but surrepticiously gayned , by taking advantage of the absence of many faithfull Members ; Why doe they complaine then in other parts of their Paper , That the Majorit●e of the House is corrupt ? and take paines to shew , how the Majoritie of the House came to be formed to serve the King and other coreupt Interests , or what necessitie was there for them to force the absence of two hundred Members of the House at 〈◊〉 ? for what i● done in this Treat●e , if the complaint here be just , that 〈◊〉 proceedings thereunto were through the absence of the Members that could not with safety attend the House , and for the distractions in the Countries , which they speake of . It is manifest to all men , that heard the cryes of the Countries at that time , who in part occasioned those distempers , even in the Countri●a neerest and best affected to the Parliament , who never , during the Warre , exprest so high contempt to the authority of Parliament , untill the like had bin first done by the Armies quartering upon and amongst them a little before . And although the president was followed by Sea and Land , almost to the ruine of Parliament and Kingdome , yet those Members ( if they meane such as are imprisoned and secluded ) which they most uncivilly and nuchristianly ) requite with the reproach of Apostates , were many of them imployed and did improve the utmost of their interests in La●cashire , Yorkeshire , Lincolneshire , Heref●rdshire , Hampshire , Suffolke , Essex , London and Surrey ) and many other parts of the Kingdome , to quiet distractions and oppose Insurrections , which the extremity of the Armies proceedings had i● part occastioned . We never judged Tumults , nor Insurrections the way to Peace and Settlement . And for the Charge of some of the eleven Members , to have taken Commissious from the Prince , W●lay , and every of them for themselves affirming the Charge of their taking Commissions from the Prince , or any other whatsoever , by verieu of his Authority , is a most malicious and scandalous asperstion ; They abhorring to deviate in the least from what their primitive engagements were ; which they have from first to last continued in , and shall doe ( by Gods assistance ) notwithstanding all Calamnies cast on them , or sufferings ( though to the utmost ) for so doing . Having thus cleared the entrance to the Treatie from th●se prejudices laid in the way therunto ; We come to that Vote of the House Decemb. 5. That the Answer of the Ke●● to the Propositions of both Houses are a ●ound for the House to proceed upon for the settlement of the Peace of the Kingdome . Of which they say , that though they advanced hither to attend Providence for the opening some way to avoid the present evils designed , and introduce the desired good into the Kingdome ; yee they said nor acted nothing in relation to the Parliament nor any Member thereof , untill by that Vote passed Decemb. 5. they found the corrupt majority so resolvedly bent to compleat their Design in bringing in the King , &c. Doe they call their threatning Remonstrance sent to the House , and the Declaration then published to explaine the meaning thereof divers dayes before this , a saying nothing in relation to the Parliament ? and their Marching up to the Citie of London and Westminster with so many Regiments of the Army , contrary to the Order of the House , a doing nothing in relation to the Parliament . By this it seemes the passing of this Vote is the very point of that necessity , which they take to justifie all their present actings , in relation to the Parliament . For before that passed , they say they acted nothing ; therefore We shall be more large upon this Subject . We shall therefore first state the matter in difference betwixt the Propositions of the Houses and the Kings Answers . As the Propositions to the King in the Isle of Weight contained in them all that security which the Houses have judged necessary to propose for themselves , those that have adhered to them in the Warres , and for the peace of the whole Kingdome ; so the King granteth all those Propositions in which the main security resteth , viz. His Majestie granted the first Proposition for taking off Declarations , &c. as was desired . His Majestie granted the third Proposition concerning the Militia , as was desired . His Majestie consented to the Proposition of Irela . limiting the time of the Parliam . disposing Offices to 20. yeers . His Majesty consented to such Acts for Publike Debts and Publike uses as should be presented within two yeeres , and incurred within the time . His Majesty granted as it was desired to the Proposition ●ncerning Peers . His Majesty granted the disposing of Offices in England to the Parliament , so that the time limitted exceed not twenty yeares . His Majesty granted the taking away the Court of Wards , having 100000l . per annum allowed in leiw thereof , to bee raised as the Parliament shall think fit . His Majesty granted to declare against the Earl of Ormonds power and proceedings after an agreement with his Houses . The onely difference remaineth upon two Propositions : that concerning Delinquents , and that concerning the Church . For the first of these , wee shall here set down that part of the Kings ●●all answer , wherein the difference lieth . And his Majesty doth consent , that the severall persons comprised in the said Propositions shall submit to moderate Compositions according to such r●tes and proportions as they and the two Houses shall agree upon . The particulars whereof , his Majesty leaves wholy to such agreement , desiring only that the rates and value may be mittigated and reduced to a more moderate proportion ; and his Majesty will give way that the persons insisted upon by his two Houses , shall be removed from his Councell , and be restrained from comming within the verge of the King , Queenes , and Princes Court ; and that they may not beare any office or have any imployment in the State or Common-wealth , without advice and consent of both his Houses of Parliament . But his Majesty cannot agree that those who do the contrary shall incurre such severe penalties , as to be guilty of high Treason and forfeit their lives and estates without any capacity of pardon , as in the said Proposition is contained there being a penalty legally implied upon the breach of any Act of Parliament , which his Majesty intends not to disponce withall . As to the seven persons mentioned in the said Votes to bee excepted , his Majesty for the peace of the Kingdom will consent that they may absent themselves out of the Kingdom for such time us the two Houses shall think fit , desiring neverthelesse that they may be admitted to Composition for their Estates ; and if any of them shall be proceeded against according to the ancient and established Law of the Kingdom , his Majesty will not interpose to hinder any legall proceedings thereupon ; but that his Majesty should joyne in any Act for the taking away of the life or estates of any that have adhered to him , his Majesty cannot with Iustice and Honour agree thereunto . As to all other persons mentioned in the Propositions , his Majesty will further consent , that they shall not sit or vote as Members or assistants in either House of Parliament , nor continue nor bee of his Majesties privy Councell , Officers of State , or Iudges , or in other Offices without consent of both Houses . As for all Clergy men against whom any scandalous life can be proved , or other legall Charges , his Majesty wlll remit them to the Law . But for all others who shall conforme to what his Majesty and his two Houses shall agree upon , his Majesty conceives fit where their livings are void they may be restored to them , and where any other is incumbent in any of their preferments , that the party now outed of his living may receive a third part of the profits , unlesse he be otherwise provided , that thus the one may not want a livelihood , nor the other be outed of any living , untill some fitting preferment be found for eithor . In this answer , though the King doth not fully grant what the Houses desire , yet he consents to joyne with the Houses in making them incapable of bearing any Office of publique trust without the consent of the Houses . And for these , whom the Houses propose to compound with the King leaves them to such Compositions as they and the Houses shall agree on , which is the conditioo they are now in ; the Houses forceing composition upon none but by sequestration of their estates , which continues untill they compound . And for these whom the Houses proposed to proceed against capitally , the King leaves them to a legall tryall , with a Declaration , that he will not interpose to hinder it which satisfied , the maine grievance of the Parliament ( as we conceive ) dedeclared in the beginning of their War concerning Delinquents , which was not for that the King refused to joyne himself with the Houses punishing of Delinquents , but for that the King by force of Armes protected Delinquents from justice ; and all that the House did desire in the Proposition concerning Delinquents presented to the King at Oxford , February 1642. was that your Majesty leave Delinquents to a legall tryall and judgement of Parliament . And wee see not what evasion from Iustice is left to such as have made War against the Parliament and Law of the land , when the King first by a Law declares the Parliaments war to be just , and afterwards leaves these that had fought against them to the judg●ment of the ●awes . The second Proposition wherein the onely materiall difference resteth , is that of the Church , which standeth thus , viz. The Houses proposed that a Bill be passed for the utter abolishing of Arch-Bishops , Bishops , &c. and for sale of Bishops Lands , That Reformation of Religion bee setled by Act of Parliament in such manner as both Houses have agreed or shall agree upon : To which the King answers , That it is his judgement and conscience , that he cannot ( as he stands yet informed ) abolish Episcopacy out of the Church ; yet because he apprehends how fatall new distractions may be to this Kingdom , and that he beleeves his two Houses will yeeld to truth if that shall bè manifested to them , if convinced , his Majesty doth again desire that there be a Consultation of Divines as he hath formerly proposed , and his Majesty will suspend the Episcopall power as well in point of Ordination of Ministers , as in that of Iurisdiction , untill he and his two Houses agree what Government shall be establisht in the future . As for the Bishops Lands , though hee cannot consent to the absolute alienation of them from the Church , yet he will agree t●at the propriety and inheritance shall by Act of Parliament be setled in the Crowne to be declared in trust for the use of the Church-men , to be imployed by his Majesty , his heires and successours with advice of his two Houses for the use aforesaid , and that Leases shall be made for lives or years ( not exceeding 99 years ) for the satisfaction of the Purchasors and Contractors according to his former answers , or reserving the old rents or other moderate rents for the maintenance of them to whom they did formerly belong , and for the future benefit of the Church : And in all things else , his Majesty refers himselfe to his former answers . And in his former answers dated October 21. 1648. He consents to the taking away all Arch-bishops , Chancellours , Commissaries , Deans and Sub-deans , and Chapters , Arch deacons , Cannons , and Prebendaries , and all Chanters , Chancellours , Treasurers , Succentours , Sachrists , old Vicars , new Vicars of any Cathedrall Church , and all other their under officers , out of the Church of England , Dominion of Wales , and Church of Ireland , In these answers ( as wee conceive ) the King takes away the government of the Church by Arch-bishops , Bishops , &c. by his taking away their Courts ; the Bishops having no authority to convent any person , send for any witnesse , heare any cause , passe any censure or judgement , or exercise any Acts of Church Government , but by and in their Courts , which being by this answer abolisht , the Government fals . And for their power of Ordination ; though it bee not absolutely taken away , yet the exercise of it is susp●nded , so as it is equivalent , for the Bishops can never exercise that power againe in England , untill they be restored hereunto by Act of Parliament ; And if that power had been absolutely taken away , yet if the King and both Houses of Parliament restore it , it is againe establisht : So that the maine desect in this answer is , in that the King agree● to settle the Presbyteri●n Government onely for three yeares , and that at the end of that time there is no Government in the Church ▪ untill it bee setled by Act of Parliament . Wee professe herein that the Kings Answer comes farre short of what we desired , and of what we shall use our best endeavours fully to effect according to former engagements ; there being nothing wherein wee should more rejoyce , then to see as the power and purity of Doctrine , so the beauty of Order and golden Reynes of Discipline strengthned and establ●sht by a perpetuall Law amongst us . Yet the King consents to the s●●ling of this Government in this Answer for so long a time as the Hou●es formerly in their Ordinances presented to him at Newc●stle , did themselves think fit to settle it . This b●ing the true st●te of the d●fference betwixt the Kings Answer and the Proposi●ions of the Houses for a safe and well grounded Peace ( which were the subject of the Houses debate , Decemb. the 5th . ) We shall in the next place , before We come to those Reasons , which induced Us thereupon to Vote that , &c. We shall premise First , by this Vote the House did not determine ( as We conceive ) the having no further Treaty with his Majesty before a concluding and declaring of Peace , nor was the Houses so bound up hereby , that they could not propose any thing further , wherein the Kings Answers are defective , or from making any new Propositions for the better healing our b●e●ches , or more safe binding up a just and righteous Peace , which as it doth appeare by the Words of the Vote it selfe ; so it is also manifest to bee the full purpose and sense of the House therein , by their laying aside the former Vote ( that the Kings Answers are satisfactory ) by a Question upon a long debate . And at the same time framing and passing this Vote , whereby they only lay hold of these large Concessions , and declare their judgements thereupon against a breach with the King , and continuance of this unnaturall Warre betwixt the King and his people , upon the difference at last by the blessing of God brought into so narrow a compasse . And this being a true state of the matter then in debate , and Our sense in the Vote that passed thereupon , Wee judged it most consistent with Our duties as Christians , and our Trust as Members of Parliament , to make this step ( having so much ground given Us ) towards the happy settlement of thi● Kingdom in Peace . This being publisht in Print to be so high a crime in Us , as to justifie whatsoever the Army hath done against Vs , and God and Man being appealed unto therein . We shall here lay down some of the Considerations both on the one hand and on the other , which carryed our Iudgements to the passing this Vote . 1. The advantages by this proceeding towards a close with the King upon what hee hath granted , are the saving of the Kingdome of Ireland out of the hands of the bloudy Popish Rebels , and preserving it to the Crown of England ; the regaining the revolted Navie , and freedome of the Seas ; the support of the Ancient and well constitu●ed Government of this Kingdome , the honour of Parliament in making Peace after so troublesome a Warre ; and in a word , the stoping the most sad issue of English bloud that ever was opened in this Nation ; and the putting of the people of this Kingdome into possession of greater security of their Lawes and Liberties against the over growing power of the Kings Prorogative , then ever any of Our Ancestors in the greatest of their successes could ever attaine unto . The consequences visible in our eyes , if we should upon the matter in difference have made a breach with the King are : 1. The deposing , if not the taking away the life of the King ; what miseries upon either of these have formerly ensued to this Kingdome our own Histories tell Us . Although for the latter ( which Wee unwillingly mention ) there was never any president for it in this Kingdome , nor ever made by any Protestants in the World ; and We desire it may never bee done by any in this Kingdome , being that , which from our harts We doe detest and abhorre . We cannot but remember in the end of our Warre the day wherein God hath given Vs prosperity , the Declarations which We made in the beginning of Our Warre , and the obligations which We laid upon our selves and the Kingdome when we were low . In the Petition of Lords and Commons presented to his Majesty by the Earl of Stamford &c. April the 8th 1642. are these words , viz. That you will please to reject all Councels and apprehensions which may any way derogate from that faithfulnesse and Allegiance which in truth and sincerity We have alwayes born and professed to your Majesty , and shall ever make good to the uttermost with our Lives and Fortunes . In a Declaration and Protestation of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament , setting forth the Cause and ends of their taking up Armes , to this Kingdome and to the whole World ; Octob. 22. 1642. are these words , viz. We the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled , doe in the presence of Almighty God for the satisfaction of our consciences and the discharge of that great Trust which lies upon Vs , make this Protestation and Declaration to this Kingdome and Nation , and to the whole World . That no private passion or respect , no evill intention to his Majesties Person , no design● to the prejudice of his just honour and Authority , engaged Vs to raise Forces , and take up Armes against the Authors of this W●rre , wherewith the Kingdome is now inflamed ; and We have alwayes desired from our hearts and souls , manifested in our actions and proceedings , and severall humble Petitions and Remonstrances to his Majesty , professed our loyalty and obedience to his Crown , redinesse and resolution to defend his Person , and support his Estate with our Lives and Fortunes to the uttermost of Our Power , &c. A Declaration of the Lords and Commons , in Answer , &c. Concerning the Allegations that the Army raised by the Parliament is to murther and depose the King , We hope the Contrivers of the Declaration or any that professeth but the name of a Christian could not have so little chari●y as to raise such a scandall , especially when they must needs know the Protestation taken by every Member of both Houses , whereby they promise in the presence of Almighty God to defend his Majesties Person , the Protestations made by the Members of both Houses upon the nomination of the Earle of E●●ex to be Generall , and to live and die with him , is exprest that this Army was raised for the defence of the Kings Person . In the Solemn League and Covenant , for Reformation and defence of Religion , and honour and happinesse of the King ; Thus Having before our eyes the honour aend happinesse of the Kings Majesties Person and his Posterity , We shall sincerely , really and constantly , through the grace of God , endevour in our several places and callings , to preserve and def●nd the Kings Majesties Person and Authority , in the preservation and defence of the true Religion and Liberties of the Kingdom , that the World may beare Witnesse with our Consciences that We have no thoughts or intentions to diminish his Majesties just power and greatnesse , &c. And it appeared not unto V● to be consistent with the publike Faith of the Houses in those Decl●rations , nor with other obligations which We have laid upon our selves by these Oa●hes , Covenants , & Prote●●ations ; to hazard ▪ the deposig of the King from his Crown & dignity , much lesse the losse of his Life upon the making of a breach upon the matter in difference . 2. We could not but foresee the apparent losse of the Kingdom of Ireland and extirpation of English Protestants , and of the Protestant Religion out of that Kingdom into the hands and power of Pa●ists in Arms there . We cannot but believe our tendernesse to make a breach of proceeding out of hearts desire to relieve and preserve the remnant of those poor Protestants , which otherwise are like to be a prey to the Popish Rebels ▪ who are not satis●ied with the lives of many thousands of Innocents ; whom they have already murthered , will justifie Vs before God and Men for what We have done in endeavouring to lay hold upon the grounds given Vs towards the settlement of Peace . 3. We could not but apprehend with fear , the great advantage to the Popish and Forraign Interests , and the disadvantage to the Protestant Cause in this Kingdom and throughout the World ▪ by a breach . The Prince and Duke of York the two next Heirs to the Crown and Government of three Kingdoms , both in For●aign par●s and under the 〈◊〉 direction . If the Warre be stilll continued by the Parliam●n● upon the matter in differenc● , it may be feared the Prince may marry with the daughter of a Popish King ostrengthen himself both at Land and Sea by Forraign alliance ( to which the right of his Inheritance to three Kingdoms , is a faire invitation ) unto which the Popish Interest in Ireland prevailing , giving such an advantage , together with the assistance of the Papists in this Kingdom ; what can be expected for Vs but to be certainly the the Seat of Warre , and in great danger to be brought under a Popish yoak ? which We beseech Almighty God to keep us from . 4 : It is obvious that a breach made at this time upon the grounds afore-mentioned , as it will divide Vs amongst our selves , hazard the losse of Ireland ; so it is like to lay a foundation of a perpetuall breach betwixt these two Kingdoms of England and Scotland . If there should bee any thought of change of Government here , how contrary are their declared Principles both of their State and Church thereunto ? The King of England is King of Scotland , and they are under Allegiance and Covenants for the preservation of the Kings Person and his Posterity as well as We : What diff●rences are l●ke to ensue betwixt the Kingdomes , by Government against Gov●rnment , perhaps Title against Title , and one Kingdom against the other ? And this Kingdom being the more wealthy , most probable to bee the Seat wherein all the Tragick Sceans and contentions betwixt both Kingdoms shall bee acted ; & what have We in reason or conscience before God or Man to beare us out against these many and Eminent hazards ? Wee had consideration of the vast debts which the Kingdome lies under , and for which the Publique Faith stands ingaged . Of which wee see no hope of payment , but by a settlement . What vast summes of money are owing to this Army , and to all the Souldiers in the Kingdom ? What multitude of extream sufferers in this City ▪ and in every County of the Kingdome , by what they have lent to , and lost for the Parliament ? Who by the continuance of the Warre are onely like to bee paid with more sufferings and exactions , upon what is yet left them : and every yeers Warre is like to make new Malignants through discontenting pressures ; destroy more families ; increase the Publique debt to be paid ; and withall increase the Kingdomes wants , and make it the lesse able to pay , untill at last the Souldier seeing no hope of Pay , the People no hope of Peace , but generall and desperate tumultuousnesse , fall amongst both , by laying hold of what is now agreed might bee prevented , the King having agreed to what is satisfactory for the payment of Publique debts , and damages , which yet may in good measure bee performed to satisfie the Souldiers , Lenders , and Sufferers , and ingage them to the interest of our Peace . Lastly , when we cast our Eyes upon all parts of the Kingdome , the present scarcity in the Countries , the povertie and disorders in our Cities ; or when wee look at Sea , and behold our Navy divided ; our Merchants robbed ; our Trade decayed , confusion threatning us on every side , These made our bowells yerne within us , and call aloud upon us to improve the season and advantage offered by this Vote . Before wee conclude this point , wee must give Answer to an objection which they insinuate ( to aggravate the passing this Vote , by us in these words , Viz. Although the King had finally denyed such things , from some of which by their Covenant ( whereto they had pretended so much zeal ) and from others by their Publique Faith given , they were obliged nos to recede . By Which this Paper seems to glance at the Proposition for abolishing of Arch Byshops , Byshops , &c. For sail of their Lands , and for settling the Presbyterian Government . We cannot but observe its said their Coven●●t ( and not the Covenant ) to which they pretended so much zeal . Is it not their Covenant who have taken it as well as ours ? We say we took the Covenant without any equivocation , or mental reservation ; and by Gods assistance have endeavoured and shall indeavour to continue faithfull therein , although they seem here to scorn both it and us . If they make this Objection with any sincerity here , what is meant in the third page of their Paper by these words viz. Div●ns of those whose Principles were more complyant to a closure with the King upon satisfaction in the particular matiers especially concerning the Form of Religion and Church Government which they mainly aff●ct●d . There they suggest that wee fall in with Malignants to obtain the Church Government , which wee affect , and here they insinuat : that we break the Covenant in not insisting more for it . But for the Covenant , wee say the Kings Answer takes away Church Government by Arch Bishops , Bishops , &c. by taking away their Courts , and so farre takes away their Power of Ordination that it can never be revived again , but by an Act of Parliament : so that Episcopacy is divested of any actuall being by the Law of the Land , and instead thereof the Presbyterian Government is put into possession by a Law for three yeares . And wee say , that the King having granted the rest of the Propositions and so much in this , the Covenant doth not oblige us to make Warre upon this point to gaine what wee desired after the three yeares , and shall really and constantly endeavour to obtain in our places and Callings . Nothing could have made the Kingdome more irreconsileable to the Presbyterie then to have made that the sole Obstruction of the Peace , and state of Warre● and it is evident ( except wee should put out the eye of our reason ) that besides the hope we might have of His Majesties comming neerer to us in this point , and in the Covenant it selfe , upon our comming neerer to Him in the absolute concluding and declar●ng of Peace ; the Parliament , by what is granted already , is put into a better capacity for setling Presbytery by a perpetuall Law , then ( as things now stand ) they can reasonably presume of by the continuance of Warre . The power of the sword apparently threatning not only the destruction of this Government of the Church ▪ but the being of the Church ( if Almighty God prevent not ) by striking at the foundations of our Faith , contemning conscientious Ministers and Ministery it self , taking away their Maintenance ; obstructing the Reformation of the Universities ; slighting of learning ; and professedly promoting a most licentious Toleration for all manner of Errors , Heresies , Schismes and prophaness in the Kingdome . This being our present condition , we hope we shall be sufficiently cleared from the least suspition of declining in our zeal to the Covenant , which we have taken , in what we have done . For the Publick Faith passed upon the sale of Bishops lands ▪ We say , that though the Purchasers might have afforded to have give● the same rates for their purchases , if they might have had them assured to them by Act of Parliament●for 99 years , and such moderate ●ents reserved , as the King ●●timated in His Answer : yet , according to His Answer , expressing further a satisfaction to be given to them ; we should not have consented to any such Act of Parliament , for setling the remainder in Him , and ensuring the said Rents , until the Purchasers ( who were in possession , and still held by the same Title , under which they bought them ( should be satisfied . And in case they should not be so satisfied , we were not by the said Vote concluded from insisting further for a full Confirmation of their purchases , having never actually agreed with the King upon any such Terms ; but prest● it is the last to get a full confirmation thereof , and only Voted that this was a sufficient ground to proceed further . And now we appeal to the Purchasers themselves , whether we ought to have made an absolute breach upon this point , or thereby should have performed our Publique Faith to the whole Kingdome and themselves . As to what is said , that the corrupt majority would not lend an Eare to admit a thought towards the laying down their own power , or rendring it back to the People from whom they received it . Wee answer , that this is an unreasonable objection , by them who endeavours to perpetuate an Army upon the Kingdome : Nor is the continuance of this Parliament objected at large : but that we are not willing to render our Power back again to the People , by which means ( as their other Papers and actions tell us ) a new Representative made by the Army ; so that the complaint in effect is , that we are not willing to render the power put into us for the Government of the Kingdome , into the hands of the Army ; which , wee con●esse , wee think wee ought not to doe . But as there is little doubt to be made that before an absolute conclusion of Peace with the King , an Act might have been had for putting a Period in short time to this Parliament : We for our parts , when the Kingdome should had been in quiet possession of these Propositions by Acts of Parliament , upon the conclusion and settlement of Peace ; There are no persons living would be more desirous then our selves to put a Period to our service in Parliament , and leave it to the care of succeeding Parliaments to preserve what , this hath gained to our Posterity . Wee should have ended this point here , but for one objection more ; which is made by their other Papers against any Agreement with the King , viz. That whatsoever the King grants in this Treaty hee may plead force to breake it , and that for any thing can bee discovered , hee is like to use his endeavours to spoile us , by policy of what we have gained by the expence of so much bloud . For answer hereunto : We say first , That this objection lies against any agreement with the King , though hee granted all the Houses desired or could desire ; and against any agreement betwixt King and people after a Warre made . It can hardly be imagined , after such differences , but that for sometime animosities will remain , and a disposition in those who thinke they have lost any part of their power to regain it ) It being naturall to all men in power to increase their power ) That this objection lay as strong against all former Treaties with His Majesty for Peace after the Warre began , and against the declared end of the Parliaments Warre , ( and of all just Warre ) a good Peace with His Majesty . But more particularly wee say , That the weight of this objection , depends only upon an uncertain conjecture of what may or may not bee hereafter , and the former experience , which this Kingdome hath had in keeping such Agreements , made in the heat of former differences , strengthened us against the feare of the danger of it . And though sometimes the Kings of this Realme , and particularly this King , have adventured to weaken their owne Grants for a time , yet they have ever beene regained with advantage , obtained and enjoyed in the times of peace . The usuall means whereby any of the Kings of this Land have made encroachment upon the good Laws granted to the people , and their own agreements , have been either by placing corrupt Judges , or other Ministers in the Courts of Justice . Who , though they could not abrogate the Law : yet they have made it speak against it self , and their good for whom it was made , or else by the power of preferring corrupt Courtiers to honour and profit , to stop the course of Justice by the Councell-Table for a time . Both these meanes are taken away from this King , by what is agreed on in this Treatie . The first , in the Proposition placing the choice of Officers in the Parliament ; whereby as they have the Lawes they desire , so they have the choice of the Judges and Officers that must administer them . And the second , in the Proposition barring the King from making any new Lords for the future to Vote in the House of Peeres , without the consent of the Houses . Which are a strong security against a politicke , as the M●litia in the Houses is against a forceable breach of this Agreement . Lastly , we say , That it cannot be expected of any Agreement should be made for peace settled after such a Civil War , without some hazard of violation or interruption . But whether the hazards and dangers be a breach upon such termes as are now in difference betwixt the Houses Propositions and the Kings answer , be not more and greater , and whether ( in case endeavours should be used hereafter to violate this agreement ) the Parliament might not then with more Justice , and greater advantage draw the Sword , then they can now keepe it unshathed upon the matter in difference : Wee leave it to all sober minded men to judge . And to what is said , That they wanted not good intelligence , that had they been suffered to meet all in the House but once more , it was designed to have passed some higher resolutions to lay further foundations of such new quarrell , so as to carry therein the name and countenance of Parliamentary authority together with the Kings , and acceptable pretence of peace , to draw men in , and then to have adjourned the Parliament for a long time , the exclusion of all remedy in the case but by another Warre . Wee say the House at the passing Vote upon the Kings Answers immediately appointed a Committee to goe to the Generall and conferre with him and the Officers of the Army , to keepe a good understanding betwixt the House and the Army . Which shewed the full intent of the House to proceed by all amicable wayes with them , not by force , but by reason . Which they were so far from attending unto , ( as in duty and conscience they ought to have done , and to which the Lord Generall promised his readinesse , however it was hindered afterwards . ) That they seized upon one of the Commissioners appointed to Treat with them ; affronted another of them , and left no way for any conference , that might have given them the the grounds of the Houses proceedings ; which gives grounds of suspi●ion , that they were resolved to do what they had designed , whatsoever the Houses had endeavoured to the contrary . Thus we have the more largely opened the thoughts of our hearts for their satisfaction ( if it be possible ) and especially for the satisfaction of those that intrusted us in what we have done upon the result of this Treaty , and in passing that Vote D●●●mb . 5. That the Answers of the King to the Prepositions of both Houses , are a ground for the House to proceed upon for the settlement of the peace of the Kingdome ; for which wee are charged to betray our Trust ; to bee selfe-servers to complect her in our wicked designs , and the like , For betraying our Trust , as our faithfulnesse hath appeared by our services and sufferings ; so wee hope it will not be accounted belonging our Trust to endeavour the obtaining of a just peace ; and for serving our selves , our owne hearts beare us witnesse , that wee had not respect in this Vote , or any private byasse towards our selves : so all that know what threatnings were cast into the House , in the Anmi●s Remonstrance and Declarations in the entrance upon this debate , what power of the Army was then in this City , what Language was commonly spoke amongst the Souldiers ? what Guards we then had , will judge that we had more cause to be byassed by fear● from doing our duties , then at that time to thinke to serve our selves by such a vote as this , to which nothing but the forceable impulse of our consciences for the discharge of our duties could have led us . And we now appeale even to the Consciences of those , even the Army themselves ( although Souldiers ) whose advantages arise by Warre , are not altogether the most competent Judges of constitutions for peace . ) Whether this were to bring in the King upon his owne Termes , or upon the Kingdomes Termes ? Whether the sixt and last particular of their account , be ground of necessity to warrant their extraordinary course in secluding us from the House ; carrying us along the streets of this City by their Souldiers , as if wee were their Captive slaves ; and to imprison our persons , and reproach our names . And to what they say in the close , That these Members , who are yet detained in custody , they are either such who have beene formerly impeached , and ( in part ) judged by the house for Treason , and other crimes , and never acquitted ; and against whom , they can , and very shortly shall produce new matter of no lesse Crime , or else such who have appeared most active and united in Councells with them , against whom also they are preparing , and shall shortly give matter of particular impeachment . Wee say , as wee doubt not but by what wee have said already , wee yet stand cleare in the judgements of all men that are guided by the Rules of Religion , Lawes , or Reason ; so when all , or any of us know what are those new Crimes , they say they can charge some of us with ; and what those charges are , they say they are preparing for others ; and when we know who those some and others are , we doubt not but they will make their innocency and integrity appeare against those Crimes and Charges which they have either in pretence , or in preparation against them . Lastly , the Army who hath done this against us , and have strengthened their hands to pursue it ; say , they appeal● to God : And wee also appeale unto God ( who is our strength , and besides him wee have none other to cleare our innocency , and protect us from violence . If in what we have endeavoured , wee may bee instrumentall to the settling of this Kingdom in a safe and well grounded peace ( wherein truth and righteousnesse may flourish ) If we may contribute to the saving of Ireland ; the Union betwixt the kingdomes of England and Scotland ; the peservation of the Parliament ; the Government , and Lawes of the Land ; the true Protestant Religion , and the Liberties of the people : wee have our hearts desire . But , if instead of Union and Peace in the three Kingdomes , the seeds of a longer and more wasting Warre is sowne ; if in stead of Reformation of Religion 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 〈…〉 and that Government by the Sword instead of Law slavery and 〈◊〉 instead of Liberty b●● our portion at the end of six yeares warre , ( which we tremble to thinke of ) wee shall humbly submit to the mighty hand of God , who in Judgement for our sinnes , and the sinnes of the Nation , reacheth out this cup of his sore displeasure to us . And in the midst of the greatest troubles , have this to comfort us , that we did our endeavours according to the best of our judgment and consciences towards the prevention thereof ▪ and for the settling this Kingdome in a safe and well grounded 〈◊〉 . A List of the Imprisoned and Secluded MEMBERS . Imprisoned . MAj. Gen. Rich. Browne , Col. John Birch , Thomas Boughton , Esq John ●ulkley , Esq Francis Buller , Esq Sir Henry Cholmeley , Sir John Clotworthy , Commissary Lionel Copley , John Crew , Esq Francis Drake , Esq Sir Walter Earle , Knight . Nathanul ●ines , Esq Sir Gilbert Gerrard , Baronet . Francis Gerrard , Esq Thomas Gewen , Esq Giles Greene , Esq Sir Harb●t . Grimstone , Baronet . Sir Rob. Harley , Kn. of the Bath . Col. Edward H●rley , Sir Anthony I●by , Knight . Richard Knightley , Esq Sir Martin Lister , Knight . Major Robert Harley . Col. Edward Leigh . Thomas Lane , Esq William Lewes , Baronet . Sir Samuel Luke , Knight . Major Gen. Edward Massey . Sir John Merrick , Knight . Sir Richard Ane●●●e , Knight . Henry Pelham , Esq William Priestly , Esq William Prynne , Esq Sir Robert Pye , Knight . Sir Benjamin Ruddyard Knight Sir Thomas Soam● , Knight . Edward Stephens , Esq Col. William Strode . John Swinfen Esq Charles Vaughan , Esq Edward Vaughan , Esq Sir William Waller , Knight . Clement Walker , Esq Thomas Viscount W●nman ▪ William Wheeler Esq Secluded . Mr. P●regryne Hobbye , Mr. John Holcroft , Mr. George Horner , Mr. Thomas Hodges , Mr. William Jones , Col. William Jepson , Sir Norton Knathpole Mr. James Cambell , Mr. Capell Luckinge , Sir Martin Lumley , Mr. Cha. Pym , Mr. Henry Peck , Sir John Pagrove , Sir Philip Parker , Sir William Playters , Mr. John Pelham , S●r Thomas Pelham , Sir N●vile P●●i , Mr. Edward Pool , Sr. Edward 〈◊〉 , Sir Thomas Parker , Mr. Tho. Povy , Mr. Henry Oxenden , Mr. Arthur Anes●●o , Mr. Arthur Owen , Sir Dudley North , Sir Robert Needham , Mr. John Nash , Sir Nicholas Martin , Sir Tho. Middleton , Mr. Tho. Middleton , Sir Oliver Luke , Sir William L●tton , Mr. Henry Lucas , Sir William Lister , Mr. John Ash , Mr. Robert Packer , Mr. John Harris , Sir John Seimor , Mr. Samuell Vassall , Sir Robert Napper , Sir Roger North , Mr. Tho. Grove , Mr. John Selman , Mr. Herbert Hay , Mr. Robert Genner , Sir John Burgen , Col. John Barker , Mr. John Nelthorpe , Mr. William Outfield , Mr. William Ellis , Mr. Edward Wingate , Mr. John Whadden , Mr. Thomas Wa●●r , Sir Richard Win , Mr. Richard Winwood , Sir Edward Askew , Sir Ralph Ashton , Mr. Mathew Allen , Mr. John Alford , Mr. Michael Bi●ulfe , Mr. Peter Brooke , Col. ●●hn Booth , Mr. Mor. Bartow , Mr. John Buller , Sir Ambrose Brown , Sir Thomas Trever , Mr. Sim. Thelwell , Secluded . Mr. Thomas Thinn , Sir John Temple , Mr. Thomas Temple , Mr. John Thomas , Mr. Samuell Terrick , Sir Humphry Tufton , Mr. Edward Thomas , Sir . John Corbet , Edward Lo. Clinton , Sir John Curson , Sir Thomas Dacres , Col. William Davies , Mr. John Dodrigde , Mr. Thomas Earl , Mr. William Edwards , Mr. Charles Rich , Sir William Spring , Mr. Simon Snow , Mr. Thomas Sands , Mr. George Scut , William Lord Fitz-William , Mr. William Hoxwist , Col. John Floid , Mr. Richard Gennings , Mr. Thomus Gell , Mr. Francis Gawdey , Mr. Samuel Gardner , Mr. Henry Hungerford , Mr. Denzill Ho●lis , Sir Francis Hollis . With sundry others driven away . Imprimatur , Joh. Langley . Jan. 20. 1648 / 9. FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A91317e-200 2 Sam. 21 2 , 3. Page 143. Page 663. 664.