The message from the Hovse of Commons to the Lords by Bulstrode Whitlocke and presented to Their Lordships by him. Whereunto is added His Maiesties most gracious answer to their message, February 22, 1642.
         Whitlocke, Bulstrode, 1605-1675 or 6.
      
       
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         ESTC R26357
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         ocm 09436560
         43104
         
           
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             The message from the Hovse of Commons to the Lords by Bulstrode Whitlocke and presented to Their Lordships by him. Whereunto is added His Maiesties most gracious answer to their message, February 22, 1642.
             Whitlocke, Bulstrode, 1605-1675 or 6.
             Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.
          
           [7] p.
           
             Printed by E. Griffin,
             London :
             1642.
          
           
             A discussion of measures to be taken against the Irish Rebellion. The Kings answer appears in paraphrase only.
             Reproduction of original in the Harvard University Library.
          
        
      
    
     
       
         eng
      
       
         
           Ireland -- History -- Rebellion of 1641.
           Great Britain -- Politics and government -- 1625-1649.
        
      
    
       A65911  R26357  (Wing W1987).  civilwar no The message from the House of Commons to the Lords, by Master Bulstrode Whitlocke Esquire, and presented to their Lordships by him. Whereunt England. Parliament. House of Commons 1643    1621 2 0 0 0 0 0 12 C  The  rate of 12 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 
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           THE
           MESSAGE
           FROM
           THE
           HOVSE
           OF
           COMMONS
           to
           the
           LORDS
           ,
           By
           Master
           
             Bulstrode
             Whitlocke
          
           Esquire
           ,
           and
           presented
           to
           their
           Lordships
           by
           him
           .
           Whereunto
           is
           added
           His
           Maiesties
           most
           gracious
           Answer
           to
           their
           Message
           ,
           
             February
          
           22
           ,
           1642.
           
        
         
           
             H.
             Elsinge
             Cler.
             do
             .
             Com.
             
          
        
         
           
             C
             R
          
        
         
           London
           Printed
           by
           
             E.
             Griffin
             ,
          
           1642.
           
        
      
    
     
       
       
         
           AT
           a
           Conference
           of
           both
           Houses
           in
           the
           painted
           Chamber
           ,
           Reported
           againe
           as
           followeth
           by
           the
           Lord
           Roberts
           to
           the
           house
           of
           Lords
           concerning
           the
           importance
           of
           imbracing
           and
           promoving
           the
           designe
           of
           those
           Petitioners
           who
           desire
           and
           hope
           that
           the
           state
           may
           be
           eased
           of
           the
           charge
           of
           the
           Irish
           Warre
           ,
           by
           the
           undertaking
           of
           particular
           adventurers
           in
           the
           houses
           of
           Parliament
           ,
           London
           and
           the
           rest
           of
           the
           Kingdome
           .
        
         
           
             Master
             Whitlocke
             ,
          
        
         
           WHo
           managed
           the
           conference
           ,
           acquainted
           my
           Lords
           ,
           that
           he
           was
           commanded
           by
           the
           house
           of
           Commons
           to
           present
           a
           Vote
           of
           that
           house
           to
           your
           Lordships
           ,
           which
           being
           read
           ,
           he
           afterwards
           proceeded
           .
           That
           whereas
           your
           Lordships
           were
           pleased
           to
           returne
           thankes
           lately
           to
           the
           King
           with
           the
           House
           of
           Commons
           for
           his
           Maiesties
           favour
           expressed
           in
           the
           passing
           of
           two
           Bils
           much
           importing
           the
           safety
           ,
           quiet
           and
           content
           of
           this
           Kingdome
           ,
           and
           the
           King
           had
           thereupon
           recommended
           to
           both
           houses
           the
           care
           
           of
           
             Ireland
             ,
          
           so
           as
           these
           propositions
           read
           to
           your
           Lordships
           even
           with
           relation
           to
           that
           message
           ,
           were
           seasonable
           .
           Then
           he
           offered
           by
           way
           of
           pretension
           ,
           something
           concerning
           the
           tytle
           ,
           which
           was
           ,
           the
           vote
           of
           the
           Lords
           and
           Commons
           .
           This
           he
           knew
           your
           Lordships
           understood
           to
           be
           but
           matter
           of
           forme
           ,
           for
           your
           Lordships
           consent
           was
           that
           ,
           which
           must
           make
           it
           to
           be
           so
           .
           He
           then
           proceeded
           and
           offered
           to
           your
           Lordships
           three
           motives
           ,
           each
           begining
           and
           concluding
           the
           entertainement
           of
           this
           course
           .
        
         
           
             1
             The
             reducing
             of
             
               Ireland
               .
            
          
           
             2
             The
             proffit
             of
             the
             King
             .
          
           
             3
             The
             ease
             of
             the
             people
             of
             
               England
               .
            
          
        
         
           For
           the
           first
           ,
           
             Ireland
          
           was
           in
           that
           condition
           ,
           as
           not
           onely
           the
           civill
           power
           ,
           which
           was
           wont
           to
           be
           the
           former
           quarrell
           ,
           but
           now
           even
           religion
           ,
           the
           rooting
           up
           of
           the
           protestant
           religion
           ,
           and
           extirpation
           of
           the
           English
           is
           the
           quarrell
           .
        
         
           The
           rebels
           are
           so
           audacious
           as
           to
           scandalize
           the
           King
           and
           Queene
           ;
           and
           the
           question
           is
           not
           now
           ,
           whether
           Irish
           or
           English
           ,
           but
           whether
           the
           Protestant
           or
           Popish
           Religion
           shall
           stand
           in
           that
           Kingdome
           ;
           This
           Rage
           of
           theirs
           stayes
           not
           there
           ;
           they
           intend
           to
           stayne
           this
           land
           with
           the
           bloud
           of
           Protestants
           .
        
         
           The
           life
           and
           soule
           of
           Religion
           is
           now
           at
           stake
           ,
           and
           
           hee
           made
           no
           doubt
           every
           good
           Protestant
           will
           lay
           downe
           his
           life
           and
           fortune
           for
           the
           preservation
           of
           it
           .
        
         
           Then
           he
           came
           to
           the
           second
           motive
           ,
           which
           he
           amplified
           ,
           first
           by
           way
           of
           disadvantage
           ,
           and
           shewed
           ,
           what
           a
           losse
           it
           would
           be
           to
           the
           King
           ,
           to
           be
           bereaved
           of
           that
           large
           and
           fruitfull
           Island
           ,
           which
           was
           a
           third
           part
           of
           the
           Kings
           dominions
           ,
           yea
           a
           third
           Kingdome
           .
           He
           then
           shewed
           how
           much
           the
           preservation
           of
           it
           conduced
           to
           the
           Kings
           profit
           ,
           and
           how
           improveable
           this
           would
           be
           ,
           by
           keeping
           that
           :
           now
           was
           the
           time
           to
           make
           him
           a
           through
           King
           there
           ,
           and
           to
           esta●lish
           the
           throne
           ,
           which
           had
           bin
           disputed
           and
           ●ottering
           in
           that
           Realme
           these
           400
           yeares
           .
        
         
           He
           then
           proceeded
           to
           the
           third
           motive
           ,
           and
           said
           the
           people
           of
           England
           ,
           have
           lately
           undergone
           many
           and
           heavie
           payments
           ;
           he
           meant
           not
           those
           illegall
           payments
           ,
           which
           were
           a
           just
           punishment
           ,
           to
           such
           as
           would
           submit
           to
           such
           uniust
           charges
           ,
           but
           he
           spake
           of
           the
           levyes
           by
           Parliament
           ,
           the
           burthen
           whereof
           together
           with
           the
           decay
           of
           trade
           ,
           our
           neighbours
           in
           the
           Country
           were
           very
           sensible
           ,
           by
           those
           propositions
           reade
           to
           your
           Lordships
           ,
           the
           poorer
           sort
           will
           be
           eased
           ,
           the
           payments
           made
           easie
           ,
           because
           voluntary
           ,
           and
           thereupon
           will
           be
           many
           and
           chearefull
           givers
           ,
           who
           must
           ever
           have
           the
           honour
           of
           a
           memory
           to
           have
           contributed
           
           to
           so
           good
           a
           worke
           ;
           so
           as
           where
           profit
           is
           an
           ingredient
           with
           piety
           and
           Loyalty
           ,
           the
           plaister
           will
           be
           sooner
           applyed
           to
           
             Ireland
             .
          
        
         
           When
           therefore
           our
           duty
           to
           God
           ,
           and
           the
           King
           ,
           may
           invite
           to
           so
           good
           a
           worke
           ,
           he
           doubted
           not
           of
           your
           Lordships
           concurrence
           with
           the
           House
           of
           Commons
           for
           the
           good
           of
           that
           ,
           which
           was
           the
           good
           of
           the
           Kingdome
           .
        
         
           Having
           said
           thus
           much
           in
           generall
           he
           offered
           some
           thing
           to
           the
           propositions
           in
           particular
           .
           That
           whereas
           the
           first
           Proposition
           demanded
           two
           Millions
           and
           halfe
           of
           Acres
           for
           the
           undertakers
           ,
           which
           might
           at
           first
           sight
           looke
           as
           a
           great
           demand
           to
           such
           as
           know
           not
           the
           extent
           of
           that
           Kingdome
           which
           is
           computed
           by
           those
           who
           well
           understood
           the
           latitude
           of
           it
           ,
           to
           containe
           15.
           
           Millions
           of
           Acres
           ,
           and
           therefore
           to
           take
           out
           two
           Millions
           and
           halfe
           ,
           when
           two
           parts
           of
           three
           of
           that
           Kingdome
           are
           in
           open
           rebellion
           ,
           is
           not
           so
           great
           a
           demand
           ,
           as
           may
           at
           first
           sight
           appeare
           ;
           and
           the
           proposition
           conduceth
           much
           to
           the
           raising
           of
           Rent
           to
           the
           King
           ;
           He
           said
           it
           was
           well
           knowne
           that
           the
           revenew
           of
           the
           Exchequer
           ,
           and
           Court
           of
           wards
           in
           
             Ireland
             ,
          
           did
           not
           exceed
           the
           summe
           of
           43000
           l.
           yearely
           ,
           besides
           the
           Customes
           which
           your
           Lordships
           found
           not
           great
           ,
           except
           in
           
           Monopolies
           and
           undue
           charges
           ,
           what
           ever
           the
           customes
           are
           ,
           they
           will
           be
           by
           these
           propositions
           much
           advanced
           ,
           20
           or
           30
           Thousand
           pounds
           a
           yeare
           rent
           will
           accrew
           to
           the
           Crowne
           by
           the
           reservations
           in
           them
           exprest
           ,
           besides
           7
           Millions
           and
           halfe
           of
           Acres
           ,
           over
           and
           above
           the
           two
           Millions
           and
           halfe
           desired
           in
           the
           propositions
           left
           to
           the
           Kings
           disposall
           .
        
         
           The
           other
           propositions
           which
           are
           for
           the
           manner
           of
           bringing
           in
           of
           the
           money
           are
           very
           necessary
           ,
           nothing
           being
           of
           more
           consequence
           then
           to
           dispatch
           this
           warre
           .
        
         
           He
           observed
           out
           of
           
             Livy
             ,
          
           that
           the
           Romans
           made
           their
           warres
           great
           and
           short
           ,
           some
           they
           finisht
           within
           6
           ,
           some
           within
           10
           ,
           other
           within
           20
           dayes
           ,
           as
           with
           the
           Samnites
           ,
           Latins
           ,
           &c.
           
           He
           did
           not
           mention
           this
           ,
           as
           though
           it
           were
           feasable
           for
           us
           to
           conclude
           this
           warre
           in
           so
           short
           a
           time
           ,
           but
           onely
           to
           prove
           by
           the
           Actions
           of
           that
           great
           State
           ,
           that
           nothing
           is
           more
           advantageous
           to
           a
           State
           ,
           then
           the
           speedy
           dispatch
           of
           a
           warre
           ,
           and
           he
           hopes
           that
           if
           this
           money
           comes
           in
           ,
           the
           warre
           of
           
             Ireland
          
           might
           be
           brought
           to
           a
           short
           issue
           :
           he
           added
           that
           he
           remembred
           with
           griefe
           the
           former
           obstructions
           for
           
             Ireland
             ,
          
           but
           he
           now
           hopeth
           by
           the
           King
           and
           your
           Lordships
           concurrences
           ,
           that
           delayes
           will
           be
           turned
           into
           dispatches
           ;
           and
           this
           was
           necessary
           
           because
           forragine
           Princes
           though
           now
           otherwise
           imployed
           ,
           will
           be
           a
           wakened
           by
           a
           lasting
           warre
           ,
           to
           take
           care
           of
           our
           affaires
           .
           He
           observeth
           the
           course
           of
           
             Irelands
          
           first
           plantation
           ,
           to
           suite
           much
           to
           this
           propounded
           .
        
         
           King
           
             William
          
           the
           first
           ,
           gave
           leave
           to
           12
           Knights
           to
           goe
           into
           
             Wales
          
           to
           get
           what
           they
           could
           and
           to
           plant
           themselves
           there
           ,
           from
           those
           descended
           
             Richard
             le
             strong
             bow
             ,
          
           first
           Earle
           of
           Pembrooke
           ,
           who
           made
           the
           first
           impression
           in
           that
           Kingdome
           .
        
         
           Of
           which
           
             Geraldus
             Cambrensis
          
           saith
           ,
           that
           it
           should
           be
           maintain'd
           
             Multis
             caedibus
             ,
             crebris
             Conflictibus
             multoque
             certamine
             ,
          
           he
           hopeth
           the
           course
           now
           in
           hand
           will
           give
           a
           period
           to
           that
           Conquest
           ,
           and
           this
           prophesie
           ,
           and
           that
           those
           intended
           plantations
           may
           be
           as
           prosperous
           to
           settle
           ,
           as
           the
           former
           to
           gaine
           that
           Kingdome
           .
        
         
           Wherefore
           this
           worke
           being
           so
           full
           of
           piety
           ,
           honour
           ,
           and
           charity
           ,
           none
           shall
           need
           to
           speake
           for
           it
           ,
           the
           workes
           speake
           for
           it selfe
           .
           And
           so
           delivering
           the
           vote
           of
           that
           house
           to
           your
           Lordships
           he
           concluded
           the
           Conference
           .
        
         
         
           
             His
             Maiesties
             most
             gracious
             Answer
             to
             the
             Message
             of
             the
             House
             of
             Commons
             to
             the
             Lords
             .
          
           
             HIs
             Majesty
             being
             very
             glad
             to
             receive
             any
             proposition
             that
             may
             repaire
             the
             calamitie
             of
             his
             distressed
             Kingdome
             of
             
               Ireland
               ,
            
             especially
             when
             it
             may
             be
             without
             burthen
             or
             Imposition
             ,
             and
             for
             the
             ease
             of
             his
             good
             Subjects
             of
             this
             Kingdome
             ,
             hath
             graciously
             considered
             the
             overture
             made
             by
             both
             Horses
             of
             Parliament
             to
             that
             purpose
             ,
             and
             returnes
             this
             answer
             .
          
           
             That
             as
             he
             hath
             offered
             and
             is
             still
             ready
             to
             venture
             his
             owne
             Royall
             person
             for
             the
             recovery
             of
             that
             Kingdome
             ,
             if
             his
             Parliament
             shall
             advise
             him
             thereunto
             ,
             soe
             he
             will
             not
             deny
             to
             contribute
             any
             other
             assistance
             he
             can
             to
             that
             service
             by
             parting
             with
             any
             profit
             or
             advantage
             of
             his
             owne
             there
             ,
             and
             therefore
             relying
             upon
             the
             wisdome
             of
             this
             Parliament
             doth
             consent
             to
             every
             proposition
             now
             made
             to
             him
             without
             taking
             time
             to
             examine
             whether
             this
             course
             may
             not
             retard
             the
             reducing
             of
             that
             Kingdome
             by
             exasperating
             the
             Rebells
             and
             rendering
             them
             desperate
             of
             being
             receaved
             into
             grace
             ,
             If
             they
             shall
             returne
             to
             their
             obedience
             ;
             and
             his
             Majesty
             will
             be
             ready
             to
             give
             his
             Royall
             Assent
             as
             to
             all
             such
             Bills
             as
             shall
             be
             tendered
             unto
             him
             by
             his
             Parliament
             to
             the
             Confirmation
             of
             every
             particular
             of
             this
             proposition
             ,
             &c.
             
          
           
             
               H.
               ELSYNGE
               ,
               Cler-Parl
               .
               D.
               Com.