A Second return to the letter of a noble peer, concerning the addresses 1682 Approx. 27 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 4 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-03 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A59014 Wing S2332 ESTC R9938 12533363 ocm 12533363 62806 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A59014) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 62806) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 293:2) A Second return to the letter of a noble peer, concerning the addresses Halifax, George Savile, Marquis of, 1633-1695. 4 p. Printed for Ralph Stamp, [London] : 1682. A reply to the Addresses importing an abhorrence of an association. "A reply to the Second return" suggests that the Marquis of Halifax is the author of the present piece; Sir Walter Scott in the 2nd ed. of the Somers tracts concurs, but Foxcroft in his ed. of Halifax's collected works denies the possibility. Caption title. Imprint from colophon. Place of publication from Wing. Reproduction of original in British Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. 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Great Britain -- Politics and government -- 1660-1688. 2003-10 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-11 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-11 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2004-11 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion A Second RETURN to the LETTER OF A NOBLE PEER , Concerning the ADDRESSES . My Lord , THE Favour you conferred upon me , to permit me to write to your Honour , with a condescending Invitation , occasioned that of March the 4 th . directed to your hand ; in which , my Thoughts of the numerous Addresses seemed to me so plainly set down , that no Mistake could ensue : yet it hath otherwise happened , and your Answer , although not altogether differing from my Expectation , is not wholly such , nor so ingenious , as I expected . I could have wish'd , that as you printed the Answer , you had with it published my Letter , which gave the Occasion , that if any Knowledge of the Persons between whom this Intercourse is used , should give the World occasion to repeat our Names , and descant upon our Judgments , I might not appear , after so much resolute Constancy , now dotish and fluctuating . But for your whole Discourse , Noble Peer , I must be plain in telling you , that not I , but the Likeness of it to that Speech you made in the House , which being published , the Hangman committed to the Flames , hath publish'd you the Author : And you do so mince this Association , and turn and wind it so tenderly , that it seems your own Projection , and a Brat so taking in your Affections , that every Abhorrence of it is a Daggers point at your Heart . You are much in Labour to have it believed never to have a Being , thinking that way to secure it from the zealous Abhorrors , and yet at every other turn , your Fondness of it makes you break out into Commendations of it's pretty Features and Usefulness . Indeed , your Shiftings shew you have something of a debauch'd Modesty left , and that you are ashamed of what you so much love ; my Willingness to excuse what will bear it , saith this of you : but the Generality cry out upon your Impudence , in saying , An Association pretended to have been seized in the E. of S's Closet , when nothing was ever more exactly proved , nothing more unquestionable and free from dispute , nothing more defended by that Lord's Clientage , and even owned in the Court by two of his Compurgators , ( for they acted such more than Jury-men ) who looking upon it , said , This is the same with that which we saw produced , and promoted in the House of Commons . And by the way , you may take notice what Justice was like to be done the King , when his Cause was in the hand of Persons guilty of the same Conspiracy ; for , should they have found the Bill , they had directed the Attorney General to draw up one against themselves ; as truly it is to be lamented , that they and all others should escape free from Punishment , who in the House saw and promoted this damnable Plot of Association , and did not so discover it , as to have the Projectors and Forwarders rewarded with their merited Rope . The Authors of such Parliamentary Proceedings ought to have their Heads advanced to the House-top , to admonish their Successors of Modesty and Allegiance . But to return ; Your Title , at the first sight , made me merry with the Remembrance of your Lordship's and that Religious Party's , you so diligently served , accustomed Activity , that out-run their Sagacity , laying open dangerous Plots and Designs before they were detected . As your Lordship hath been frequently termed a Catt , from your noted Skill in falling safely , so you further merit it from the Apology of the Catt changed into a beautiful Woman , receiving a Change only in Form not in Conditions . You are by the exceeding Greatness of Royal Favour , raised to very great Riches and Honour , not only out of a mean Fortune , but ( pray pardon my Plainness and necessary Freedom ) an ill State ( as you are too conscious ) that merited Severity : yet all Indulgences , all immerited Additions of Lustre and Fortune , cannot alter you , but you must be Catting , still playing your old Tricks , laying open before detecting . Your Wit hath , like Galba's , very unseemly Lodgings , and is no other than what may be conjectured to proceed out of so ill contrived a Frame , mischievous and unlucky : it serveth to no eminent Counsel , but to impose upon the silly and credulous Multitude , who adore you as some Idolaters are said to choose and worship their God , for it 's excellent Deformity . No Man who makes a just and serious Inspection into these Addresses , seeth any thing but what becomes generous and loyal Subjects , whom the Sense of their own Duty , and the odious Practises of Men of your Principles , stir up to these Expressions of Fidelity on their own part , and a most reasonable Abhorrence and Detestation of the others . And now , because it is an Answer to my Letter , you lay upon me the Task of enquiring what this Monster which you have rip'd up and laid open , is . You begin to tell me , that the Fermentation which the Nation is put into , must be cherish'd by the ways that first occasioned it , and that the Romish Designs against the Protestant Religion and Liberties of England , would miscarry , if the Heats and Animosities between Protestants were not artificially fomented . Here the Tale you tell of the Romish Designs is so exceedingly stale , that it stinks abominably , and is rejected by most of the apprehensive Dissenters and Factious Party , who see it in vain to talk any more at that rate , the Generality of the Nation being cured of those Fits which the affrightful Noise of Popery put it into . For , as soon as honest and quiet Men hear any begin to blutter those fusty Discourses , they leave them as men tainted and rusty , Tools ( as you call them ) to your Trade of Protestant Joynery . And the Truth is , you all so torment and saw what you take in hand to polish , that it 's great pity the Masters of the Company are not hanged for Company , with the Journey-man . It 's time indeed some end were put to the Lunacy the Kingdom hath been afflicted with , and I hope we may conclude it wrought , or near effecting , seeing the greatest part of what you stile distracted are recovered , and you are found not Lords of the Ascendent Predominant over Affections , but Witches and Juglers that have held men under some short Surprizal , but are delivered by Divine Providence , President at the Council-Table . Even they who commend you do not believe you , and the rest will never trust you : Neither have you shot your Bolt any thing near the Mark , in saying , the Operation of the Declaration against the two last Parliaments being wholly spent , this against the Association is slipt in , and managed to perpetuate Rancours ; for your self ( I fear to your Grief ) find the contrary , both that the Efficacy of the Declaration is not spent , but hath produced this brisk and genuine Off-spring , the natural Issue of so incomparable a Conjunction as the Peoples Affections , answering their Prince's Condescension and Love ; and that it is so far from fostering Animosities , that it is the most certain Bond of Union that could ever have been framed ; a League indced offensive and defensive , not as your squinting Loyalty and unmannerly Comparison would make it seem , between the Prince and a Faction , but between the King and all his Subjects , who conscientiously respect their own duty , and the general Welfare . We never think or call that a Faction , which , compelled by the Fear of God , honoureth the King ; but you , who of all Men living , have the greatest Provocations to admire and love regal Clemency and Bounty , do most wretchedly , after all the strictest Engagements to Loyalty , turn back like a Dog to his Vomit , and are pleased no otherwise , but during your Respect to that vile Excrescence of Government , which hath been spued out and abhorred , as your beloved Association is now , chiefly for it's Tendency toward the same . After you have made a Citation of a Loyal Gentleman's words , you will needs insinuate from them , a parity of His most Excellent Majestie 's , and that basest of Usurper's Oliver's Cause , and do in effect deride all that out of Devotion worship the true God , because some , out of Fear or Illusion , have worship'd the Devil . Usurpers , conscious to themselves what Hatred their ambitious and tyrannical Invasions merit , study Popularity , and are forc'd to fawn upon the worst of men , whom they interest to impose upon others , and always rule by Arts contrary to the Prescriptions of Legal and just Monarchy ; They either affright or corrupt men to obsequious acknowledgments ; These , with Majestical , but Gracious Countenance , receive the due Tributes of voluntary Obedience , and encourage Fidelity , to the shame and terrour of such as associate and consult by their Kings to disturb the Publick Peace . Because some unduely flattered Oliver , ( once your Master ) therefore you will allow none to give our Lawful King those proper Eulogies and Thanks which his wise and excellent Government challenges from all , whom God hath blessed with Judgment to see and rejoyce in their happiness by and under him . But this , with your Lordship , is a base and destructive Design : a strong Affirmation , which you would have received , although you have forgotten to tell us the Reason . And so in truth you have the Sense which should direct us to what you mean , in saying , It would have been some Argument of the Addressors Candour , and sincerity of their Intentions , in what they did before , if they had forborn their late Applications , till they had found that they were not mistaken in the grounds upon which they think to vindicate themselves for what they then did . Something your Lordship did here conceive , but being ill Midwiv'd , is spoil'd in the production . As to what you said a little before , you are as unfortunate in your expressions and reasoning . For these Addressors are not sick of your Lordships Megrims and distempers of Brain , that giddily rave and anticipate the Fruits of Royal Counsels before maturity . They , as all brave Spirits , are blessed with Humility , and meddle not with the King's Prerogative , neither take upon them to instruct him when a Parliament will be most seasonably called , but leave it to his Wisdom , from which , by God's blessing upon it , they hope to reap the satisfactory Effects of these and their former Addresses , while your Lordship and your Factious Adherents shall sit in melancholick postures , and enviously assist your tormenting Angels in your own vexation . How you call Mr. Groyn's Oath a bare suggestion , I understand not ; neither what credit you gain by saying this Association was , for what appears , only feigned and imaginary . Those few words upon this account before spoken , may ( I think ) suffice ; for all your scrupulous artifice will neither cover nor colour that Villany . You may as well call in question , Whether that Noble and Loyal Peer was accused and indicted , as whether that Paper was seized in his Closet , or any where promoted by Associators ; you may as well question , Whether that Lord ever was Lord Chancellor , and afterward made good his own words in his Speech to L. Treasurer , and found His Majesty a Prince under whom the unfortunate fall gently ; Whether afterward in the House of Peers he made any Speeches in opposition to a certain strict Test for the discovery of Popery , promoted in that House ; Whether he was since at Oxford , and afterward committed to the Tower ? Your Lordship thinks it congruous , that the Addressors testifie their detestation of the many Sham-Plots , whereby Loyal and innocent Protestants have been endeavoured to be destroyed ; and what is more evident , than that they do this , abhorring both the real and Sham-Plots , which bold and bloody-minded Factions , under the name ( forsooth ) of Protestants , were engaged in , to the destruction of the King , Religion , and Government ? This you are fierce and zealous to have done , yet being done , you dislike and complain of it ; and what 's the reason , but because while you cry out of Popish Plots , and Popish Sham-Plots onely , these Addressors , the true Friends of the Protestant Religion , and Peace of these Kingdoms , see you involved in the same Plots which you cry out against , — and engage to defend the King and establish'd Religion against all Conspirators whatsoever , whether Popishly , Scismatically , or Heretically affected ? But when all of you make such a dinn about Protestants , and name the Protestant Religion , why do you not set forth what this Protestant Religion is , that we may know it before we engage to defend it ? The Religion establish'd in the Church of England we are sure you would destroy , not preserve ; for this the Addressors promise and desire to preserve , which promises onely give you these Galls and Disturbances . Neither will you own the Presbyterian to be the onely Protestant , nor with the Presbyterian the Independent , for then the other younger Brethren , Anabaptist , Brownist , Quaker , Fifth Monarchy man , and all the rest of this large Family , will take it very ill to be rejected as Spurious , and unprovided of Protestant Portions . If you take all into your politick Ark , whether feathered or naked , cloven-footed , clawed , or hoofed , this Conjunction will make England in the next Generation , surpass any part of Africa for monstrous Issue , when those of Baxter's , Vincent's and Jacomb's holy Protestant Herds , shall mingle with Protestant Muggletons , Protestant Quakers , Protestant Ranters ; and your Honour 's , which is Protestant Atheists . Considering then , the impossibility of such pretended Union in different Opinions , knit together in one Band of Religion , and yet , that if any one or more Part or Opinion be rejected , the Project is that way inconsistent with what it throws out , and would seem , because there 's a Rupture made with the Muggletonian or Ranter , or whomsoever this Holy League receives not , who yet hath as good a title to that Vocabulum of Protestant , as Jack Presbyter , Jack of Leyden , George of Munster , or Hugh Peters , when he came from New England . So that in time I find the League hits not upon the score of Religion , but all these are Protestants , as protesting against Monarchy , and the whole present frame of Government , and that can no otherwise come under one name of Protestant , than by joyning with it the word Rebell ; and then Protestant Rebell speaks all the Parties together , Presbyterian , Muggletonian , Anabaptist , &c. being as the Colours of Yellow , Tawny , Green , &c. by which the several Regiments are to be distinguished . And these , you think meet , the City of London should lead the way to address for their Protection , until they may conveniently be ( as is aforesaid ) united and formed into a Body that can defend and set up for it self . But your Lordship is still unfortunate , advising impertinently ; for the City , seeing the Design , hath , in the Lord Mayor and Lieutenancy , taken a truly safe , commendable , and contrary way to your prescription , and so have bid your Honour good Night , wishing you to sleep for more wit. And when Parliaments shall , in stead of Endeavours to perfect the important matters of the Kingdom , sit down and spin out more time in doing nothing , than other Parliaments have taken to dispatch Multitudes of Affairs , or rather , in doing nothing but chalking out unwarrantable Rules for the Subject to grow licentious , and act as in an authorized Disobedience , What Reason is there , that good and peaceable Men should not make to their Prince grateful Addresses , for his Care of them , in dissolving such Parliaments , and scattering the impending Mischiefs which threatned Ruine to our Universe ? As an Anniversary day of Thansgiving for our Deliverance from the ineffable Calamities we sustained by that trayterous Convention , called a Parliament assembled under K. Charles the First , whom they devilishly persecuted , unking'd and murthered , is appointed upon the day of his Sacred Majesty now reigning his Birth , and happy Return ; it seems to me as reasonable , that those days , whereon his Majesty secured the Liberty of the Subject , by dissolving the last Parliaments , be kept Festival , in Commemoration of our Deliverance from those great and apparent Dangers , wherewith we were compassed , while they were in Session . Neither are all Associations , ( as either your Nine eyed Perusal reads , or your distorted and grieved Fancy interprets them ) abhorred in any of these Addresses , which detest only those two Diabolical ones , the first , of the Sole●n League and Covenant , and this seized in the E. of S.'s Closet , but are themselves pious and Loyal Associations , excellently adapted ( to use your Words ) for the Preservation of his Majesties Person and Dignity , and the Protestant Religion , now by Law establish'd . But for your so justly abhorred Association , which you would insinuate , was to have had the Royal Stamp , pray tell me where and when those audacious Russians ( who would not allow their King in the Management of his setled Revenues , the Priviledge which the meanest Owner of a Chattel Lease hath , in the disposal of it ) did agree and consent more than in the taking the Covenant to ask the King's Leave and Liking ? Or rather , tell me whether you would not first have taken it , and have afterward , upon the Point of a Spear , tendered it to him for his Approbation and Stamp , at Holmby House , the Isle of Wight , or Hurst Castle ? How strangely ( you say ) it looks , that the Mayor of Gl. who is recorded to have done Service against Ch. Stewart , at Worcester , should now be hugged for advancing these Addresses ! From a Person of good Credit I am assured , that this Gentleman , now Mayor of Gl. was in those times , with all the Family , 〈…〉 pelled that City , because Persons of known Loyalty . But if it be as you say , it is not so strange to see deceived men undeceived ; which happening , none are wont to be more zealous Maintainers of the Cause , which they once opposed . But it may be , you reflect on him , and the eminent Magistrate in the City of London , by reason of the Opinion received by many , ●●at Rebellion is never truly repented of : But 't is a Mistake ; for although it be rare , yet we have seen divers Eminent Person , great in the Rebellious times , far greater in the King 's ; as Col. J. B. and D. L. H. one of the five Members , yet since a Privy Counsellor , and Ambassador , entrusted with the weightiest Affairs of the Realm ; and above all , the E. of S. whose Ri●●es , Honours , and Trusts , were almost unaccountable : yet , to say these were not Men of Principles acting uniformly , but sway●ed by Interest , & ready to engage with the same heat in every thing that lieth in Subserviency to their Gain : What is this , but to upbraid those pious , great , and wise Ministers of State with Insincerity , which must be an Inlet to all Villany and Corruption ; which for you to think , or me to say , were a Crime never to be expiated . Therefore , if nothing in Mens Actions and Manners doth appear , but what speaks them obedient , all good Men will rejoyce at their Conversion , notwithstanding the affrightful Blackness of their former Transactions . As for your Brethren and Fathers of your Protestant Corporation and Interest , discourse them as you please at your own Leisure . But while your Zeal to the former Times transport you , no wonder you mistake Men and Business , and dream all things transacted after the Usurper's Mode , as if the Country-Gentlemen , Grand-Jurors , and chief Burgers of Corporations in these days are like your Upstarts , who were indeed mere Tools , and must be managed like Puppets , ere they could squeek a partiful Address to those Bables of Authority . And then , you , mentioning the different Opinions of the Papists in our days , from those in Queen Elizabeth's Reign , in the Cause of Succession , make we wonder at your either Error or imposing Conscience , if you either believe or would persuade others to believe the whirling Zealots have not a Papistical Rule and Method for all they do and say ; and change Sense and Language as they are taught from Rome . You now all along say expresly the same which they then ; but the Doctrine introduced under the Title of the whole Clergy , Nobility , Gentry , and Courtiers Arguments , concerning the Succession of Mary Queen of Scots , is wholly false : for , whereas some of the Puritan Gang ( which then began to be somewhat in esteem with Religious Time-servers ) did preach up , and throw forth such Discourses as you mention , yet was it far from the Sense of the Clergy or sincere States-man , who would not alter from the Pattern of Loyalty set before them , and sealed with the Blood and Sufferings of those who drew it , in the Case of Queen Mary's and the Lady Jane Grey's Title to the Crown . Tho' they saw the Danger , yet they had learned to believe in , and relye upon the Divine Providence , which takes Care for the Safety of the Church and blesseth it chiefly , when the Governours thereof renounce the Refuge of indirect Politicks . And then , what a Story you tell of Associations in Queen Elizabeth's Time ? Which had they been entred into , without her Consent , and of such a Draught as this abhorred one , which you so much dandle , no Ignoramus Jury should have rescued the Abettors and Concealers from the Gallows . And yet you presently destroy your own rare Tale in the following Paragraph , by pratling where the King should reign , even in the Hearts of his People , which you would suppose he doth only of those who subscribe these Addresses , An inconsiderable parcel of Men ( you say ) if compared with the Bulk of Nation . Pray my Lord , tell me , whether the Subscribers in Queen Elizabeth's time were a tenth part of the Number ? Yet were they a joyful Guard to her , who having their hands , was assured of the rest of inseriour Ranks , who were under the Subscribers Command . And whereas you pretend these Addresses do proclaim the Weakness of the Government , you are out in that Note upon the Text ; for , they most certainly magnifie it , rendring it glorious abroad and at home , in the Eyes of all , who wish the Prosperity of it , being also a disheartening to it's Enemies , whether Forreign or Domestick . Nothing can be imagined more to encrease the Honours of Esteem towards him in our Neighbours Affections , than to see the Readiness of the King of Great Brittain's Subjects throughout the whole Kingdom to assert the Royal Prerogatives , and give such hearty Engagements to defend his Majesties Sacred Person , Crown and Dignities , the Religion by Law established , and the Right of Succession : which last , is no less Reputation abroad and at home , than the former , because all Disputes and Heart-burnings concerning his Successor , disturbing his Peoples Affections make him uneasie , and frequently proves of as ill Consequence to any Prince , as if his own Title were in Controversie ; but that , setled and undubitable , strengthens his Power , and blunts the sharpest Edge of Malice against that Prince that hath such a Revenger of any his Reproaches or Injuries . And when the Heads and principal Members of all Counties , Cities , Towns , and other Corporations , do with so filial a Respect purge themselves of all sinister Designs or Intentions towards the Crown , either in the present Fruition or future Inheritance , and out of the Ardency of honest Affections , abhorr all such vitiated and rotten Members as you and others , who are , and have been versed in indirect and disloyal Practises , not only Forreign Malignity , but yours is hereby shattered in pieces , and you , who pretend you tremble at others , are in an Agony with the Thoughts of this and the cooperating Stings of Conscience . What your Lordship mentions concerning the Portugal King , is Forreign to the Matter discours'd , and more ridiculously introduced , than I should a Petition that your Honour as a Reward for your Oratory and Manners should be sent to the House of Correction . To conclude , seeing your Lordship so great a Counsellor and fortunate States-man , as never to be believed or loved , never to attain to what you seek , because your Mind 's more Changling than your unsightly Body gives us to suppose , and alway knowing , that you never speak Truth but as the Devil did Scripture , to corrupt the Holy to Apostacy ; our own Searchings having caused us strongly to confide in the D. of York's Loyalty , and unparalelled Love of his Prince , his untainted Candor and Sincerity towards all who faithfully respect their Duty and Allegiance , your forming such terrible Dangers to the King and Kingdom by his Authority and Succession doth sufficiently secure us from Fear : For , were there any real Danger imminent , you would never discover it , it being impossible but you should have an Hand in it . And this Giant Popery , as it is magnified by your Opticks to us , is but a Dwarfe : How much properer he may appear to some , when shewn from off your Munkey Shoulders , I cannot tell , and leave you to the Tryal ; whom I desire to pardon for any thing harshly expressed , because I hope it may prove beneficial to your Honour , and if so , it is the same to Your Lordships very Friend and Servant . &c. From Newmarket March 16 th . Printed for Ralph Stamp . 1682.