The late apology in behalf of the papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists Lloyd, William, 1627-1717. 1673 Approx. 115 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 25 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-10 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A48822 Wing L2684 ESTC R30040 11239066 ocm 11239066 47021 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A48822) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 47021) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1446:1) The late apology in behalf of the papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists Lloyd, William, 1627-1717. 46 p. Printed for Henry Brome ..., London : MDCLXXIII [1673] Reproduction of the original in the Merton College Library, Oxford University. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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Copies of the texts have been issued variously as SGML (TCP schema; ASCII text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable XML (TCP schema; characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless XML (TEI P5, characters represented either as UTF-8 Unicode or TEI g elements). Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Castlemaine, Roger Palmer, -- Earl of, 1634-1705. -- Catholique apology. Catholics -- England. Great Britain -- Politics and government -- 1660-1688. 2003-11 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-01 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2005-01 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion The Late APOLOGY In behalf of the PAPISTS , Reprinted and Answered In behalf of the ROYALLISTS . LONDON : Printed for Henry Brome , at the Gun in S. Paul's Church-Yard . MDCLXXIII . TO THE AUTHOR OF THE Apology . SIR , ABout fourscore Years ago , in a time when there were such Apprehensions of the Papists as now there are , ( and howsoever they are now , surely then they were not without cause ) some of your Predecessors , to palliate the matter , and to make their Governors more secure of them ; writ a Book to this effect , that Catholicks are to imploy no other Arms against their Prince but the Arms of Christians , viz. Tears , and Spiritual Means , daily Prayers , and Watchings and Fastings ▪ . So you begin , [ My Lords and Gentlemen , The Arms which Christians can use against lawful Powers in their severity are only Prayers and Tears . ] We cannot say that you writ your Book for the same End as they did . But we do not like it , that you jump so together in the same Beginning . [ Now since nothing can equal the infinity of those we have shed , but the cause , viz. to see our dearest Friends forsake us , we hope it will not offend you , if ( after we have a little wip'd our eyes ) we sigh out our Complaints to you . ] Of the Cause of your Tears , we shall say more anon . Of the Quantity of them , you say very extravagantly , Nothing can equal the infinity of those we have shed . For you might have excepted those of the Protestants in Queen Maries dayes , or of them that suffered in the late Irish Rebellion . You ought to have excepted the Fears of your Fabulous Purgatory : and yet those are said to be short of Infinity . But you Jesuites love to be Hyperbolical , whether ranting or whining ; as if that Religion which obliges you to damn all other Christians , had likewise forbidden you to speak like other Men. [ We had spoke much sooner , had we not been silent through Consternation to see you inflamed , whom with reverence we honor ) and also to shew our submissive patience , which used no slights nor tricks to divert the Debates of Parliament : for no body can imagine where so many of the great Nobility and Gentry are concerned , but something might have been done ; when as in all Ages we see things of publick advantage by the managers dexterity nipt in the bud , even in the very Houses them selves . Far be it from Catholicks to perplex Parliaments , who have been the Founders of their I riviledges , and all Antient Laws : Nay Magna Charta it self had its rise from us , which we do the less boast of , since it was not at first obtained in so submiss and humble a manner . In the same Roman Style you commend your owne silence and patience . You boast that you have been the Founders of the Parliaments Priviledges , and all Antient Laws . Of the first , let every man believe as he sees cause . But the second we cannot allow , in either sense , whether you mean it of your selves , or of your Predecessors . For as now in your Church , men are of two sorts , even so they were heretofore in this Realm . There were some that wholly minded the common interests of Christian Religion and Civil Government . Others were Papalini , asserters and promoters of the Popes usurpations . They which acted in those first capacities were not more your Predecessors than Ours . They which acted in the other were truly and only Yours . You say , [ We sung our Nunc Dimittis when we saw our Master in his Throne , and you in your deserved Authority and Rule . ] 'T is very well . And yet * some of you sung your Venite Exultemus when you saw his Blessed Father upon the Scaffold . But what of that ? since the Son is King , who is not glad † that he is King ? or whom would it not grieve to have his Loyalty called in Question ? [ Nor could any thing have ever grieved us more , but to have our Loyalty called into question by you even at the instigation of our greatest Adversaries . [ If we must suffer let it be by you alone ; for that 's a double Death to men of Honor , to have their Enemies not only accusers , but for their insulting Judges also . ] Sir , he that is Loyal , and a man of Honor , has no cause to fear Death , double or single . For our Kings have alwayes Declared * that they put no man to death for Religion . Therefore if you Truly fear Death , it is for Treason . If you only pretend this , it is a Calumny . Either way you are no friend to the Government , for all your pretences to Honor and Loyalty . [ These are they that by beginning with us , murthered their Prince , and wounded you : and shall the same method continue by your Approbation ? We are sure you mean well ; though their design be wicked : but never let it be recorded in story , that you forgot your often Vows to us , in joyning with them that have been the cause of so great Calamity to the Nation . ] How far it is true , that the Kings Murtherers began with you , we shall consider anon . But it seems you take the Liberty of bestowing that Character upon whom you please ; that no man hereafter may dare move for the Execution of any Law against you , for fear of being said to continue the Method of the Kings Murtherers . As for any Vows that we have made to you , whatsoever they are , you are more sure of them than we can be of any that you make to us ; for we have no Pope to dispense with them . Neither is it recorded in Story , * that English Protestants ever joyn'd with the Enemies of their Nation . [ Of all Calumnies against Catholicks , we have admired at none so much as that their Principles are said to be inconsistent with Government , and they themselves thought ever proue to Rebellion . ] 'T is a Calumny of yours to call those things Calumnies , which are true , and which you cannot Deny without such a Presumption as we should much admire in you if it were not so very Ordinary . Concerning your Principles , where should we look for them , but in your Councils , your Decretals , and the Books of your Divines ? In each of these we are taught , that the Pope has a Power to depose Kings , and to discharge Subjects from their Allegiance : which Doctrines are utterly inconsistent with Government : for whosoever believes them , no Prince can be secure of him . But whosoever is a Papist , is bound to believe them . And he that has imbib'd this Faith , may well be thought ever prone to Rebellion . The Council of Lateran under Pope Innocent III. expresly Ordains , that in case any Prince be a favourer of Hereticks , after admonition given , The Pope shall discharge his Subjects from their Allegiance , and shall give away his Kingdom to some Catholick , that may root out those Hereticks , and possess his Kingdom without contradiction . 'T is observable , that this Pope was himself a deposer of Kings , namely of John King of England , and of Otho IV. the Emperor ; and also that this Council which made Rebellion a Duty , was the first that made Transubstantiation an Article of Faith. Next for the Bulls and Decrees of your Popes , which according to Bellarmine are sufficient to make that to be sin which is not sin , or not to be sin which is sin : it would be tedious to instance in all that could be produc'd to this purpose . From Gregory VII . downward ▪ such a Trade was driven of deposing Kings , that no weak Prince could wear his Crown , but at the Pope's Courtesie . And that it might never be otherwise , Pope Boniface VIII . declares it for Law in these words : † We say , and Define , and Pronounce , that it is absolutely Necessary to salvation , for every humane Creature to be subject to the Bishop of Rome : Which Oracle is thus interpreted by Bertrand ; Every humane * Creature , ( i. e. ) Every Magistrate , Must be subject , &c. ( i. e. ) Must submit himself to be deposed , when the Pope thinks fit . And that the Gloss doth not injure the Text , it appears by the Tenor of the Decree ; especially by those words about the middle of it , that the Spiritual Power ▪ is to order the Worldly Power , and to Judge , it if it be not as it ought ; according to that in Jeremy , I have set thee over Nations and over Kingdoms , &c. In which suppletive , &c. these words are wound up ; To root out , and to pull down , and to destroy , and to throw down , to build , and to plant . All which powers this Law-giver of yours endeavoured himself to exercise . He endeavour'd , saith Platina , to give and take away Kingdoms , to expell men , and to restore them at his pleasure . Agreeably to this doctrine and practice your great Canonist Lancelottus teaches you , That the Pope may depose Kings and Emperors , and transfer their Kingdoms and Empires from one Line to another . Which wholsome Doctrine , no doubt , as well as the rest of his Book , Pope Pius IV. has made Authentick by his unerring Approbation . Lastly for your Divines , They have generally own'd it ; and many of them have written large Books in defence of it . We do not tell you this as news , for your Clergy-men know it already ; but that your Laity may not be ignorant of it , we shall quote them some few of the greatest Doctors of your Church in this Age. And we shall leave it upon you to shew them , when and where they were condemned , what Justice has been executed on the Persons , what Index Expurgatorius has censur'd the Writings of these Authors . Nay , if you deal honestly , you cannot but confess , that their Works are generally approved , and that their Persons are had in admiration among you that are the guides of the Lay-mens Consciences . We pass over the gross things of Mariana's Book ▪ ; because , they which once licens'd it for love of the Doctrine ; have since condemned it , for fear of their King 's heavy Displeasure . But pray Sir , who condemned your Cardinals , Bellarmine and Baronius ? who teach you , that the Pope may do with any King , as Jehoiada did with Athalia ; that is , he may deprive him first of his Kingdom , and then of his Life . Bellarmine indeed elsewhere expresses it more like a Jesuite , and a man of distinctions , in these words ; The Pope does not allow you not to obey your King , but he makes him that was your King to be not your King ; as who should say , when the Pope has done His part , then you are free to do Yours . Again , who condemn'd your great School-Men , Suarez and Valentia ? of whom the one writes against his Majesties Grand-Father , that a King , Canonically Excommunicated , may be deposed or killed by any man whatsoever : the other says , that an Heretical Prince may , by the Pope's sentence , be depriv'd of his life , much more of his Estate , and of all Superiority over others . Nay , who has condemned our Country-man Parsons , or Cresswel ? ( for the high-fliers of Popery have been those of our own Nation ) by whom this is laid down as a Conclusion of the whole School of Divines and Canonists , and declar'd to be Certain , and of Faith ; that any Christian Prince whatsoever , that shall manifestly swerve from the Catholick Religion , and endeavour to draw off others , does immediately fall from all Power and Dignity , &c. and that , even before any Sentence of the Pope is pronounced against him ; and that all his Subjects whatsoever are free from all obligation of any Oath of Obedience which they have made to him as their lawful Prince ; and that they may and ought ( if they be strong enough ) to eject such a one from the Government of Christians , as an Apostate , an Heretick , a deserter of Christ , and an enemy of his Common-wealth , &c. Cardinal Perron went not altogether so high ; but yet he held to the Roman Catholick Principle , that Kings may be deposed by the Pope when he sees cause . He seemed to be of another opinion while Henry IV. was alive : but when He was dead , and a Child was in the Throne , then he ventur'd to declare this publickly in his Oration * on behalf of the whole Clergy of France . † He maintained that this was the current Doctrine in France till the time of Calvin : and for the contrary Doctrine , viz That Kings are not deposable by the Pope , Rossaeus * calls it the Paradox of the Lutherans ; Perron calls it a Doctrine that breeds Schisms : a gate that leads into all Heresie ; and to be held in so high a degree of detestation , that rather then yield to it , he and his fellow-Bishops would chuse to burn at a Stake . But how has this Doctrine taken among the Papists in our Kings Dominions ? it has not taken with some of them : either because you have not thought it seasonable for you to instruct them in it ( for Doctrines of this sort are then only proper to be Inculcated , when they may do Execution ) or else because your Instruction has been over rul'd by some better Principle ; as we doubt not there have always been some of your Church , in whose generous breasts the English man has been too strong for the Papist . But yet this Doctrine has taken with others ; and many of them have practised according to it , as we shall shew you hereafter ; and many more would have been practising , if there had not been something to hinder them or deterr them . For 't is allowed by your Divines , as a very good Reason , for Catholicks to omit the Duty of Rebellion , if they are not strong ●nough to go through with it . So Bannez excuses our English Catholicks , and so Bellarmin * does the Primitive Christians : Nay your † Casuists say , If there be any notable danger of Death or Ruin , without which you cannot perform it , that then you are not bound to endeavour it . Long may these Good Reasons continue ; for if these were remov'd , we know not how far we may trust you . For one of your Brethren , another poisoner of the people , has been so forward already , since His Majesties Restauration , as to declare in Print , that in case your Pope should take upon him to Deprive our King , he would not meddle between them . I leave that Question , saith he , to be decided by the two Supream Powers , the Pope , and the King , when occasion shall be for it . [ My Lords and Gentlemen , had this been a new Sect not known before , something perchance might have been doubted ; but to lay this at their doors that have govern'd the civilliz'd world , is the miracle of miracles to us ] Sir , we know not how to cure your wonder , but by shewing you , 't is unreasonable . For you can it a Miracle , that men judge according to good Evidence . Who doubts less of the dangerousness of your Principles and Practices , than they that have Read most , and had most Experience of them ? We can give you no greater instance , than in King James of blessed Memory , who was no stranger to you either way , and this is his judgment of you : That as on the one part , many honest ●en s●d●ced with some Errors of Po●ery , may yet remain go●d and fait●ful Subjects : So on the other part , none of those that truly know and believe ●he whole grounds and School-conclusions of ●heir Doctrines , can ever prove either go●d Christians or good Subjects . But pray Sir , when was it that you govern'd the civiliz'd World ? For the Eastern and Southern Churches never own'd your Government ; nor yet the Western , while Learning flourished : But when Barbarity had over-run it , then Popery grew up by degrees , and made it more Barbarous both in Ignorance and in Cruelty . Then came in those Doctrines of Transubstantiation , &c. Then came in those Papal Usurpations , &c. which the Wo●ld , being again Civiliz'd , hath partly thrown off , and partly reduced into more tolerable terms . [ Did Richard the First , or Edward Long-shanks , suspect his Catholicks that served in Palestine , and make our Countryes Fame big in the Chronicle of all Ages ? or did they mistrust ( in their dangerous absence ) their Subjects at home , because they were of the same profession ? could Edward the Third imagine those to be traiterous in their Doctrine , that had that care and duty for their Prince , as to make them ( by Statute ) guilty of Death in the highest Degree , that had the least thought of ill against the King ? be pleased that Henry the Fifth be remembred also , who did those Wonders , of which the whole World does yet resound ; and certainly all History will agree in this , that 't was Oldcastle he feared , and not those that believed the Bishop of Rome to be Head of the Church . ] The Reigns of those Kings whom you speak of , were in those dark times ; when all Goodness declin'd , and Corruptions were daily growing upon us . Richard the First , being told he had three wicked Daughters , Pride , Covetousness , and Leachery , said he could not Match them better than among your Templers , Fathers , and Friars . Edward the First out-law'd the whole Clergy of this Realm , for refusing to pay the King any Taxes , because the Pope had forbidden them to do it . And both those other Princes whom you mention , made Laws against his Usurpations . Edward the Third made a notable one of this kind , by advice of that very Parliament , in which he enacted his Laws against Treason . And certainly , Henry the Second was more vex'd with Becket , than ever Henry V. feared Oldcastle . We doubt not , those Kings had many good Subjects , and our King hath some better than you seem to be . But they differed not in Religion , as you do from ours : And yet then , your Faction was always encroaching where it was suffered , and dangerous where it was opposed . Did not your Pope force King John to do him homage for England ? Did he not wrestle with Edward I. * for the Sovereignty of Scotland ? Hath he not often laid claim to the Kingdom of Ireland ? If the old Gentleman in a pet should go to turn out his Tenant , what would our King have left , when these are disposed of ? [ We will no longer trouble you with putting you in mind of any more of our mighty Kings who have been feared abroad , and as safe at home as any since the Reformation of Religion . We shall only add this , That if Popery be the enslaving of Princes , France still believes it self as absolute as Denmark or Sweden . ] The French King will believe what he pleases , but not all that you say of him . For he cannot but know , that the Pope gave away that Kingdom from some of his Predecessors ; and maintained War in it against his Grandfather , till he brought him to his terms . And why hath not His Holiness dealt so with him that now is ? partly for the sake of his Religion ; but chiefly for fear of a Storm , lest his Coin should do that which Lewis the Twelfth's only threatned in the Inscription of it , PERDAM BABYLONIS NOMEN . [ Nor will ever the House of Austria abjure the Pope , to secure themselves of the fidelity of their Subjects . ] For the Austrian Princes that are so link'd to the Pope ▪ and whose Subjects are all Papists ; you suggest a mad way to secure themselves by firing their Countrey about their ears . But what is this to England ? where , since the exclusion of that trash , which you call the Catholick Faith , the King and the greatest part of his People are no Papists , and have had so much trouble and danger for it from them that are . May not Reason and Experience teach us to fear , that having to do with the same kind of Adversaries , we may still have some troublesome and dangerous Enemies ? No , we have none to fear but our selves , if we may believe you . For , say you , [ We shall always acknowledge to the whole world , that there have been as many brave English in this last Century , as in any other place whatsoever : yet , since the exclusion of the Catholick Faith , there hath been that committed by those who would fain be called Protestants , that the wickedest Papist at no time dreamt of . ] Pray Sir , what may that be ? For you have murthered Kings , and them of your own Religion , four or five in this Realm since the Conquest ( not to speak of those Numbers elsewhere . ) But that was in the growing Age of Popery . In latter times , have you so soon forgot our Kings Grand-Father , Henry IV. murthered by Ravilliac ? or his Predecesfor Henry III. murthered by Fryar Clement ? and the People you have kill'd up by whole Families and Townships ? Witness England , Ireland , France , Piedmont , which you may hear of elsewhere . These things have been done by Papists broad awake ; and what must that be which the wickedst of them never dreamt of ? [ 'T was never heard of before , that an absolute Queen was condemned by Subjects , and those styled her Peers ; or that a King was publickly Tryed and Executed by his own People and Servants . ] First , you tell us of the Queen of Scots being put to Death in Queen Elizabeths Reign . It was by the same colour of right , we suppose , that Wallis suffered in Edward the First 's Reign , namely of that Sovereignty that our Princes challenged over Scotland . But Edward I. was ere while a laudable Papist ; and Queen Elizabeth , for all this , might be a very good P●otestant . Sure we are , that King James and King Charles , who were nearest concerned in this matter , never imputed the Fault of it to her Religion . Your other instance is , of that most execrable Murther , committed on the best of Kings , by his own Subjects , and by such as you say , would fain be called Pro●estants . Sir , we would fain be called Christians , and Members of the Catholick Church : would you take it well of a Turk , that should therefore charge our faults upon you ? but you do worse than a Turk , in charging these mens faults upon us . They were neither then nor since of our Communion ; but that blessed Prince was , whom they murther'd . He declared upon the Scaffold , I dye a Christian , according to the profession of the Church of England , as I found it left me by my Father . He charged the Princess Elizabeth , not to grieve , and torment her self for him ; for that would be a glo●ious Death which he should dye , it being for the Laws and Liberties of this Land , and for maintaining the true Protestant Religion . He died with some Care not to leave you this advantage by his Death ; as it appears by these words of his last Letter to His Majesty that now is . The scandal of the late Troubles which some may object and urge to you against the Protestant Religion established in England , is easily answered to them or your own thoughts in this , that scarce any one who hath been a beginner or an active prosecutor of this late War against the Church , the Laws , and Mee , either was or is a true lover , embracer , or practicer of the Protestant Religion established in England ; which neither gives such Rules , nor ever before set such Examples . [ My Lords and Gentlemen , we know who were the Authors of this last abomination , & how generously you strove against the raging Torrent ; nor have we any other ends to remember you of it , but to shew that all Religions may have a corrupted spawn ; and that God hath been pleased to permit such a Rebellion , which our Progenitors never saw , to convince you perchance ( whom for ever may he prosper ) that popery is not the only source of treason ] But do you indeed know , who were the Authors of this last abomination ? Pray Sir be plain with us , for in these doubtful words , there seems to be more truth than every man is aware of . The Rebellion that led to it , began we know in Scotland , where the design of it was first laid by † Cardinal Richelien His Majesties * irreconcileable Enemy . Then it broke out in Ireland , where it was blest with His Holiness's Letters , and assisted by his Nuntio , whom he sent purposely to attend the Fire there . Lastly here in England , you did your parts to unsettle the People and gave them needless occasions of jealousie , which the vigilant Phanaticks made use of , to bring us all into War and Confusion . Both in England and Scotland , the special Tools that they wrought with , were borrowed out of your Shops . It was His Majesties own Observat on ( by which you may guess whose spawn they were ) Their Maxims , saith he , were the same with the Jesuites ; their Preachers Sermons were delivered in the very phrase of Becanus , Scioppius , and Eudaemon Johannes ; their poor Arguments , which they delivered in their seditious Pamphlets printed or written , were taken almost verbatim out of Bellarmin and Suarez . In Ireland , where you durst do it , you imploy'd Iron and Steel against him ; with which you might as well have preserved him , if you had pleased ; but you denyed to do that , ( as he tell us ) * only upon account of Religion . Then followed the accursed Fact it self , agreed to in the Councils of your † Clergy , contriv'd and executed by the Phanaticks . In vain did the poor Royallist strive against it , for what could he do ? when two such streams met against him ; of which the deepest was that which came from Rome , where the false Fisherman open'd all his Flood-gates , to overwhelm us with those troubles , which , for the advantage of his trade , he had often before endeavoured , but could never prevail till now to send them pouring in upon us . [ Little we think , ( when your Prayers and ours were offer'd up to beg a blessing on the Kings Affairs ) ever to see that day , in which Carlos Gifford , Whitgrave , & the Pendrels , should he punish'd by your desires for that Religion which obliged them to save their forlorn prince ; & a stigmatized man ( for his Offences against King & Church ) a chief promoter of it . Nay less , did we imagine , that by your Votes Huddleston might be hang'd , who again secured our Sovereign ; and others free in their fast Possessions that sate as Judges , and sealed the Execution of that great Prince of happy Memory . ] That many Gentlemen of your Church were not of your Party , we do willingly acknowledge ; and that some of them in that critical day of Danger , did the King very eminent Service . But so did Protestants too ; therefore you cannot ascribe this to Your Religion . Nor does it seem reasonable , that to requite particular persons for their service , we should abandon those Laws which may secure the publick against as great a danger . To question his Life that had freely exposed it for our Sovereigns , were too great a Barbarity for any Christians but of your Sect , or any Age but Queen Maries dayes ; for then Sir Nicholas Throgmorton was indeed so dealt with ; but we do not more detest those times than such examples . And we know that His Majesty , without any trespass on his Laws , may protect and reward those persons whom he judgeth deserving it ; as well as his Royal Predecessors did , in whose Reigns the penal Laws were made . Pray be you as favourable to the stigmatized Man , ( whom sure you are not angry with for his Offence against King and Church , whatsoever you say ; ) and if he be now a promoter of any thing that displeaseth you , bear with him , as His Majesty doth ; for whom he lately did his utmost against Phanaticks toward the bringing of him in : and he would not willingly live to see the Pope turn him out again . For the Regicides , be as severe with them as you please ; only beware how you tax His Majesty's Mercy , for fear you may have need of it . [ We confess we are unfortunate , and you just Judges , whom with our lives we will ever maintain to be so ; nor are we ignorant the necessity of Affairs made both the King and you do things , which formerly you could not so much as fancy . Yet give us leave to say , we are still loyal ; nay ▪ to desire you to believe so , and to remember how Synonymous under the late Rebellion ) was the word Papist and Cavalier ; for there was never no Papist that was not deemed a Cavalier , nor no Cavalier that was not called a Papist , or at least judged to be popishly affected . ] Your fawning upon the Parliament , and commending of your selves , we pass over as things of course . And we equally believe you now , as you did the Phanaticks heretofore , when they called us Papists ; or as we did you e'rewhile , when you called them Protestants . For pray Sir , what did they to be called Protestants ? or what did we to be judged Popishly Affected ? And if all Papists , as you say , were deemed Cavaliers ; we hope some of them have had the grace to be ashamed of it . In Ireland there were whole Armies of Irish and English , that fought against His Majesty , solely upon the account of your Religion . In England it is true , some came in voluntarily to assist him ; but many more of you were * hunted into his Garrisons , by them that knew you would bring him little help and much hatred . And of those that fought for him , as long as his Fortune stood ; when that once declined , a great part , even of them , fell from him . From that time forward , you that were , always , all , deemed Cavaliers , where were you ? In all those weak Efforts * of gasping Loyalty , what did you ? You complied , and flattered , and gave sugar'd words to the Rebels then , as you do to the Royallists now . You addrest your Petitions † to the Supream Authority of this Nation the Parliament of the Commonwealth of England You affirmed * that you had generally taken , and punctually kept the Ingagement . You promised , that if you might but enjoy your Religion † you would be the most quiet and useful Subjects in England . You prov'd it in these words . * The Papists of England would be bound by their own Interest ( the strongest obligation amongst wise men ) to live peaceably and thankfully in the private exercise of their Consciences ; and becoming gainers by such compassions , they could not so reasonably be distrusted , as the Prelatick Party that were losers . You prov'd it more amply by real Testimonies ; which we have no pleasure in remembring , and you would have less in hearing of them . These things were too lately done to be talk't of . If after all this said and done for your own Vindication , you were still deemed Cavaliers , the more was your wrong . But who could help it ? all the right we can do you , is , Not to believe it . [ We know though we differ something in Religion ( the truth of which let the last day judge ) yet none can agree with your Inclinations , or are fitter for your Converse than we ; for as we have as much Birth among us as England can boast of , so our Breeding leans your way both in Court and Camp : and therefore , had not our late sufferings united us in that firm tye , yet our like humors must needs have joyned our hearts . If we err , pitty our condition , and remember what your great Ancestors were , and make some difference between us ( that have twice converted England from Paganism ) and those other Sects that can challenge nothing but intrusion for their imposed Authority . ] As for Religion , we agree with you in all that is truly Catholick : We differ from you only in not admitting your Innovations . And whether justly , we say also , let the last day Judge . Your Converse , Breeding , &c. we heartily respect as far as 't is English. But we suspect every thing that Leans toward a Forreign Jurisdiction . And we would be loth , by our kindness to those things wherein we agree with you , to be drawn into the danger of those things in which we differ from you . By that flam of your having twice converted England from Paganism , sure you mean that we in this Land have been twice converted by persons sent to us from Rome . Which you will never perswade any one to believe , that dares trust himself to taste of Church-History without one of your Fathers chewing it for him . But , supposing this to be true , pray what would you infer from it ? that because we received good from the Primitive Christians of that place , therefore we should lay our selves open to receive any evil that may happen to us from their degenerous Successors . [ But 't is generally said , that Papists cannot live without persecuting all other Religions within their reach . We confess , where the name of Protestant is unknown , the Catholick Magistrates ( beliveing it erroneous ) do use all care to keep it out : Yet in those Countries where liberty is given , they have far more priviledges than we , under any reformed Government what soever . To be short , we will only instance France for all , wher they have publick churches , wher they can make what Proselytes they please , and where it 's not against Law to be in any charge or employment . Now Holland ( which permits every thing ) gives us , 't is true , our Lives and Estates , but takes away all trust in Rule , and leaves us also in danger of the Scout , whensoever he pleaseth to disturb our Meetings . ] What is generally said of the Popish Persecutions , is also generally believed . But Sir , you answer it deceitfully . For you tell us of the manner ; first , of those Countries where the Name of Protestant is unknown : and next , of those Countries where liberty is given : but you slip over a third sort , namely , of those where the Name of Protestant is well known , and yet no Liberty is given . Pray what Liberty have the Protestants in Flanders ? we are told they have none : and yet the Name of them is very well known there . The like may be said of divers other Countries : Nay in England , while it was Yours , did you give any Liberty at all ? yet the Name of Protestant was very well known here , and was sufficient for the burning of any one that was known by it . But you say , you will only instance France for all . Very wisely resolved : for it would not have been for your credit to instance any other . In France then , whatsoever Liberty the Protestants enjoy , it is by vertue of their Edicts : which how they were obtained , we shall have occasion to mind * you ; and how they are observed , let the poor Hugonots tell you . But if they were observed to the full ; should we therefore grant You that Liberty which is against Law ? because they are allow'd that which you say is not against Law. In Holland , the Papists may have some reason to complain , if their Masters allow them no more Liberty than you speak of . For , it was chiefly by their hands , that the Spanish yoak was thrown off : which , on the contrary , our Papists were so fond of , that for divers years together , we had much ado to keep them from pulling it on upon our necks . [ Because we have named France , the Massacre will perchance be urged against us : but the world must know , that was a Cabinet-Plot , condemned as wicked by Catholick Writers there , and of other Countries also : besides , it cannot be thought they were murthered for being Protestants , since 't was their powerful Rebellion ( let their Faith have been what it would ) that drew them into that ill machinated Destruction . ] The French Massacre , which you next speak of , was a thing of so horrid a Cruelty , that , as Thuanus * tells us , Considering-men , having turn'd over the Annals of the Nations , could find no example of the like in all Antiquity . * It was cloak'd over with shews of the greatest Amity in the world ; namely of a Marriage between the Houses of Valois and Bourbon ; to which all the chief of the Protestants were most lovingly invited . There , after the Jollity of Mirth , and caresles of Entertainment , in the dead-time of the night , the whole City was in Arms about them ; they fell upon all the Protestants Houses and Lodgings ; they butchered them without distinction , Men , Women and Children , till the Channels ran down with Blood into the River : And scarce a Protestant was left alive , except the * Bridegroom and the Prince of Conde ; who turned Papists to escape their hands , and yet they could not escape them ; the one being poisoned , and the other stabb'd by men of your Religion . This hellish Stratagem , you say , was condemned as wicked by Catholick Writers . It was likewise extoll'd as glorious by Catholick Writers . But pray Sir , what think you of it ? you are bashful in company , but one may guess at your meaning . First , you say it was a Cabinet-Plot : a fine soft word , for the butchering ▪ * of 30000 persons . Next , in answer to them that call it murther , you seem to blame it as a thing done to Halves ; for what else can you mean , by calling it an ill-machinated Destruction ? Lastly , whatsoever it was , that which drew it upon them , you say , was their Rebellion ( let their Faith have been what it would . ) Nay Sir , it was their Faith ( let their Obedience have been what it would . ) For neither had that King better Subjects than those which were Massacred ; nor had his Successor erranter Rebels than those that did Massacre them . Brave Coligni was the first murthered ; and his Head was sent to Rome , while his Body ( according to his own ominous * wish ) was mangled and dragged about the Streets of Paris . The Duke of Guise was chief of the murtherers ; whose factious Authority , as you sweetly style it , was as black a Rebellion as ever that Kingdom saw . But to end this Question , whether these men were massacred for Protestant Religion , or for Rebellion ; let us take judges between us : for possibly , We may be partial for the one , and You for the other . First , of Rebellion , a King should be the most competent Judge : hear therefore what King James saith , who lived in the fresh memory of those dayes . I could never yet learn ( saith he ) by any good and true Intelligence , that in France , those of the Religion took Arms against their King. In the first Civil Wars they stood only upon their Guard , they stood only to their lawful Wards , and Locks of Defence . They armed not , nor took the Field , before they were pursued with Fire & Sword , burnt up and slaughtered . Besides , Religion was neither the root nor the rinde of those intestine Troubles . The true ground of the Quarrel was this ; during the Minority of King Francis II. the Protestants of France were a refuge and succor to the Princes of the Blood , when they were kept from the King's Presence , and by the Power of their Enemies were no better than plainly driven and chased from the Court. I mean the Grandfathers of the King now Reigning , and of the Prince of Conde , when they had no place of safe Retreat . In regard of which worthy and honorable Service , it may seem the French King hath reason to have the Protestants in his gracious remembrance . With other Commotion or Insurrection the Protestants are not justly to be charged . Certain it is , that King Henry III , &c. by their good Service was delivered from a most extream & eminent peril of his Life , &c. they never abandoned that Henry III. nor IV. in all the heat of Revolts and Rebellions raised by the Pope , and the more part of the Clergy , &c. Then of Religion , since you will allow none but the Pope to be Judge , let us hear his Judgment from Thuanus , who was a Roman Catholick , and a most authentick Historian . He tells us , the Pope had an account of the Massacre from his Legate at Paris , that he read his Letter in the Consistory of Cardinals , that there it was decreed that they should go directly to St. Marks , and there solemnly give thanks to Almighty God for so great a blessing conferred upon the Roman See , and the Christian World. That soon after a Jubilee should be publisht through the whole Christian World , and these causes were exprest for it , To give thanks to God for destroying in France the Enemies of the Truth , and of the Church , &c. In the Evening , the Guns were fired at St. Angelo , and Bonefires were made , and nothing was omitted of all those things that use to be performed in the greatest Victories of the Church . Some dayes after , there was a Procession to St. Lewis , with the greatest resort of Nobility and People . First went the Bishops and Cardinals , then the Switzers , then the Ambassadors of Kings and Princes : then under a Canopy , went His Holiness Himself , with the Emperor's Ambassador bearing up his Train for him , &c. Over the Church-Door was an Inscription set up , in which the Cardinal of Lorain , in the name of the King of France , congratulated his Holiness , and the Colledge of Cardinals , &c. for the plainly stupendious effects , and altogether incredible events , of their Councils given him , and of their Assistances sent him , and of their twelve Years Wishes and Prayers . Soon after , the Pope sent Cardinal Ursin in his name , to congratulate the King of France , who in his Journey through the Cities , highly commended the Faith of those Citizens that had to do in the Massacre ; and distributed his Holiness's blessings amongst them . And at Paris , being to perswade the reception of the Council of Trent , he endeavoured it with this Argument , That the memory of the late Action , to be magnified in all ages , as conducing to the Glory of God , and the Dignity of the Holy Roman Church , might be as it were sealed by the Approbation of the Holy Synod : for that so it would be manifest to all men that now are , or hereafter shall be , that the King consented to the destruction of so many lives , not out of hatred or revenge , or sense of any injury of his own , but out of an ardent desire to propagate the Glory of God. That , what could not be expected whilst the Faction of Protestants stood , now since they were taken away , the Catholick Apostolick Roman Religion which by the Synod of Trent is cleared from the venom of the Sectaries , might be established without Controversie , and without Exception , through all the Provinces of the French Dominion . Well spoken , worthy Head of the Church ! we will take thy Judgment about cutting of throats at any time ; thou dost not mince the matter , as this English limb of thee doth : who yet is thus far to be commended ; that since he durst not say of it as he desir'd , for fear of provoking us , yet he would not call it as it deserved , for fear of too much contradicting thee . [ May it not be as well said in the next Catholick Kings Reign , that the Duke of Guise and Cardinal , Heads of the League , were killed for their Religion also ? Now no body is ignorant , but 't was their Factious Authority which made that jealous Prince design their Deaths , though by unwarrantable means . ] The Duke of Guise and his Brother , were not killed for their Religion ; for they were killed by * one of the same Religion , and one that was bent against the Protestants as much as they . Only because he spared the blood of the Protestants your Zealots hated him ; and so much the more , because a Protestant * being his Heir , he would not declare him uncapable of the Succession . For these causes , by the Popes consent , these Guises ( whom he called the Maccabes † of the Church ) entred into an Holy League against their King ; and called in the Succors of Spain and Savoy , which they paid for with the Rights of the Crown ; they maintained a sharp War against him , and did all that was in their power to deprive him of his Kingdom and Life . Whereupon that jealous Prince ( as you favourably * call him ) for his own preservation , was urged to deal with them , as they had dealt with the Protestants ; from whose case , this of the Guises is so vastly different , that one would wonder why you should mention it . But since you have led us thus far out of the way , let us invite you a little farther . The Pope Excommunicated the King for this Action , and granted 9 Years of true Indulgence to any of his Subjects that would bear Arms against him ; and foretold , * ( as a Pope might do without Astrology ) that e're long he should come to a fearful Death . The Subjects took Arms , and earned the Indulgence . A Friar took his Knife , and fulfilled the Prediction ; by ripping up those Bowels that were always most tenderly affected with kindness to the Monkish Orders . But what joy was there at Rome for this ! as if the news of another Massacre had come to Town , one would think so , by the Popes Oration * to his Cardinals : in which he sets forth this work of God ( the Kings Murther ) for its wonderfulness to be compared with Christs Incarnation and Resurrection . And the Friars Vertue , and Courage , and fervent Love of God , he prefers before that of Eleazar in the Maccabees , or of Judith killing Holofernes : and the murthered King ( who had profest himself to dye in the Faith of the Roman Catholick Apostolick Church ) he declared to have died in the Sin against the Holy Ghost . Pray Sir , may it not well be said , that Papists cannot live without persecuting Protestants ? when we see a Popish King stabb'd and damned for not persecuting them enough , or for doing the work of the Lord negligently . [ If it were for Doctrine that Hugonots suffered in France , this Haughty Monarch would soon destroy them now , having neither Force nor Town to resist his Might and Puissance . They yet live free enough , being even Members of Parliament , and may convert the Kings Brother too ; if he think fit to be so . Thus you see how well Protestants may live in a Popish Country , under a Popish King : nor was Charlemain more Catholick than this ; for though he contends something with the Pope , 't is not of Faith , but about Gallicane Priviledges , which perchance he may very lawfully do . ] [ Iudge then worthy Tatriots , who are the best used , and consider our hardship here in England , where it is not only a Fine for hearing Mass , but death to the Master for having a Priest in his House ; and so far we are from preserment , That by Law we cannot come within 10 miles of London ; all which we know your great mercy will never permit you to exact . ] You say , if this were true , then this Hanghty Monarch would soon destroy his Hugonots now . No such consequence , Sir , for he may persecute them , and not destroy them ; he may destroy them , but not so soon . Princes * use to go their own pace , whilst they are upon their legs ; but if any misfortune throws them upon all four , then the Pope gets up and rides them what pace he pleaseth . Nor is this Monarch yet so Catholick as Charlemain was ; if he were , he would do as Charlemain did . He would be Patron of all the Bishopricks in his Empire , even of Rome it self , if it were there . He would make the Pope himself know the distance between a Prelate and an Emperor . He would maintain the Rights of his Crown ; and not chop Logick about Gallicane Priviledges , which you say , like a sly Jesuite , that perchance he may lawfully do . He would call a Council when he pleased , to separate Errors from the Faith ; as Charlemain himself called a Council * against Image-Worship , which was then creeping into the Church . This were a good way of destroying the Hugonots , by taking away all causes of strife amongst Christians . By any other way than this he cannot destroy them , without the violation of his Laws : which , as they are the only Forces and Towers , whereby Subjects ought to be secured against their King ; so , since he is pleased to allow them no other , these Laws , backt with his puissance , are forces enough to secure them against their fellow-Subjects . We cannot pass this Paragraph , without observing your Jesuitical ingenuity ; how you slight those favours that you have ; how you complain of those hardships that you have not ; and how you insult over the poor Hugonots , by comparing with them , who generally would mend their condition by changing with you . Pray Sir , do not Popish-Peers sit in our English Parliaments , as well as Protestants in the French ? or have you not as free access to our Kings Brother , as they have to theirs ? or would you have his Highness to Catechise , as the Abbot had the Duke of Glocester ? perhaps that you would have . Otherwise we know nothing but His Highness's Wisdom , and care of his Conscience , that guards him from you . Of the Laws you complain hideously , Worthy Patriots consider our hardship . And yet , those very Laws you complain of , you never knew executed in your life ; and you tell us soon after , that you know they never will be . For what cause then were they enacted ? Plainly for this cause , to guard the lives of our Princes against your traiterous practices . [ It hath often been urged , that our Misdemeanors in Queen Elizabeth's days , and King James's time , was the cause of our Panishment . ] Your Misdemeanors ! We cry you mercy , if they were no more ; but that comes next to be argued , Whether they were Misdemeanors or Treasons ? [ We earnestly wish that the Party had more patience under that Princess . But pray consider ( though we excuse not their faults ) whether it was not a question harder than that of York and Lancaster , the cause of a War of such length , and death of so many Princes , who had most right , Q Elizabeth or Mary Stuart : for since the whole Kingdom had crowned and sworn Allegiance to Q. Mary , they had owned her Legitimate Daughter to Henry the Eighth ; and therefore it was thought necessarily to follow by many , That if Mary was the true Child , Elizabeth was the Natural , which must then needs give way to the thrice Noble Queen of Scots . ] Under Queen Elizabeth , you wish your Party had more patience ; and we think they Needed none ; for in the first ten Years of her Reign they had no Business for it . In all that space of time , which was twice as long as Queen Maries Reign , though it was fresh in memory what the Papists had done , yet not one of them suffered Death : till the Northern Rebellion : which being raised against her , only upon the account of her Religion ; it appears that She was the persecuted person : She had the occasion for Patience ; and you would have wished Them more Loyalty , if any such thing had been in your thoughts . But perhaps you wish they had so much patience , as not to have discovered their design before it was fully ripe for execution . Not unlike . For it appears , you account Rebellion no fault ; by this , that you say , you excuse not their faults , and yet you do excuse their Rebellion . You excuse them , by saying , it was a very hard Question , whether the Right of the Crown lay in her , or in the Queen of Scots ; for that many thought Queen Elizabeth Illegitimate . Pray Sir , who Thought it ? or when arose that Question ? The Arch-Bishop of York though a Papist , in his Speech at the publishing of Queen Maries Death , said , No man could doubt of the justness of the Lady Elizabeths Title to the Succession . The whole Kingdom received her , and owned her as Queen , more generally and freely than eyer they did Queen Mary . The Neighbour Kings of Spain and France , and the Emperor offered * Marriage to her , in hopes to have got the Crown by her . The Queen of Scots her self did acknowledge her , and claimed nothing more than to be Heir to her , and so did King James that was her Successor . So that whosoever opposed Queen Elizabeths Right , if they were English , 'c is apparent they were Rebels ; and if they were Papists , we may guess what led them to it For the first that Questioned her Title , was Pope * Paul IV. who would not acknowledge her for sundry causes ; the chief that he alledged , were these : First , Because this Kingdom is a Fee of the Papacy , and it was audaciously done of her to assume it without his leave . The second was , because she was Illegitimate : for if her Fathers Marriage were good , the Pope must let down his Mill. But after all this , his Successor Pius IV * did own her , and would have done any thing for her , so she would have owned him . Which because she would not , the next Pope Pius V. issued out his Bull * against her , and deposed her ; not for Bastardy † but for Heresie ; that is , for being a Protestant ; for which Heresie it was , that the Northern men Rebelled against her , and many more of her Subjects disowned her : and some or other were every foot plotting how to take away her life . True it is , that some of these pretended to do it in favour of the Queen of Scots . But how if that Queen had not been a Catholick ? or Queen Elizabeth had not Been thought Illegitimate ? would a legitimate Protestant have been so contended for ? or would a Popish Bastard have been rejected by them ? Pope Gregory XIII . had occasion to consider this . For his Holiness had a Bastard * of his own to provide for , and another † of the Emperors ; no doubt good Catholicks both of them . To one he gave the Kingdom of Ireland , and set out Stukely * with Forces to win it for him . To the other he gave the Kingdom of England , and gave him leave to win it for himself . But what was all this to the thrice Noble Queen of Scots ? Possibly she might have been preferred to have married one of the rwo ? but then it must have been expresly with this condition , That her Son King James ( who was a Heretick ) should have nothing to do with the Succession . When their bubbles were broken , and she was dead , all her Right descended to King James , who being as little to the Pope's mind , as Q. Elizabeth was , Sixtus V. only took no publick notice of Him , but he proceeded with all his might against Her. He curst her afresh , and publisht a Croysade against her , and gave the whole Right of Her Kingdoms to Philip the II. King of Spain . But neither that Popes Bounty , nor his three Successors Blessings , nor the Spanish Arms , nor the Italian Arts ( for no way was left untried ) could ever prevail against Gods Providence ; which , till the end of her days , kept that Queen always fast in her Possessions . At last , Pope Clement VIII . seeing there was nothing to be done against her , resolv'd to let her go like a Heretick as she was ; and to take the more care that another Heretick should not succeed her . For which cause he sent over two Breves into England , one to the Clergy , and the other to the Laity , commanding them not to admit any other but a Catholick , though never so near in Blood , to the Succession : that is to say , in plain words , not to admit King James to Reign after Queen Elizabeths death . So 't is clear , that your Popes never stuck at that hard Question that you speak of . Let us see what our Country-men did , who , as you say , suffered for it in those days . They did like obsequious Members , at every turn , as their Head directed them . They acted for the Papal Interest as far as they were able . They made the House of Scotland the Cloak for it , as far as it would reach . And it reacht pretty well , as long as the Title was in Queen Mary . But after the Title came to be in King James , Pray Sir , name us those Papists , or but one single person of them , that either died or suffered for Him : and then you bless us with a discovery . What then ? were they idle for so many years as past between the commencing of his Title , and the Death of Queen Elizabeth ? Nothing less . For they were as busie as Bees , in contriving how to hasten her Death , and how to put him by the Succession . And if it were for his Service , that they would have destroyed Her ; pray for whose service was it , that they would have defeated Him ? but that will be known by the story . Soon after his Mothers Death was the Spanish Invasion ; which would have defeated him with a Witness , if it had sped ; and yet our Papists , both Negotiated * it , and writ in Defence † of it . Afterwards in Scotland your Jesuites procured the Earl of Huntley * and others to raise a powerful Rebellion against him . In England , they endeavoured to perswade the Earl of Derby † to set up a Title to the Crown ; who honestly revealing it , was poisoned soon after , according to the prophetical threatning of Hesket whom they had made use of to perswade him . When these single shots failed , Father Parsons * gave a broad-side to the Royal House of Scotland . For he publisht a Book under the name of Dolman , wherein he set up divers Competitours for the Succession , and consequently so many Enemies to the unquestionable Right of that Family . And to provide one sure Enemy upon the place , he found out a Title for the Earl of Essex , the most ambitious and popular Man in the Nation , to whom also he craftily dedicated his Book . In which he mentions , † among other Books of this nature , one written by Lesley concerning the Queen of Scots Title ; another by Heghinton for the King of Spains Title ; and another concerning the Prince of Parma's ; But for his part , before these and all others , he prefers the Title of the Infanta . And , to shew that he meant as he said , * he caused their Scholars in the Seminaries abroad to subscribe to it , and made them swear to maintain it , and bound the Missionaries to promote it in those places whither they were to be sent . Whereas for King James his Title , he preferrs several others before it , and tells us , † I have not found very many in England that favour it : meaning sure of your Catholicks , with whom his converse chiefly was ; and concerning whom he gives this remarkable testimony , that * the Catholicks make little account of his Title by nearness of Succession . We have reason to believe he did not wrong them , because when an answer was written to his Book , † the Arch-Priest Blackwel would not suffer it to be published . And your next Head-Officer , the Provincial of the Jesuites , * declared he would have nothing to do with King James his Title ; and 't was the common voice of the men of his Order that * if King James would turn Catholick , they would follow him ; but if not , they would all die against him . Which pious Resolutions were seconded with agreeable Actions . For they endeavoured , as far as Catholicks are obliged by their Principles , viz. as far as they durst and were able ; at first ; to hinder him from coming in , and afterwards to throw him out again , or to destroy him in the place , as we shall have occasion to shew you in the answer to the next Paragraph . The mean while out of this present discourse , in which you cannot deny any thing that is material to our purpose ; It appears that this hard Question of Right to the Crown , was not between the Parties themselves in one or t'other of whom you confess the Right was . It appears that your Infallible Judge of Controversies very easily and impartially resolv'd it , by denying both sides of the Question , and assuming the whole right to himself . It appears that your Catholicks , who are said to have sided with one against the other , did in truth side with the Pope against them both . And lastly it appears that their Misdemeanors were inexcusable Treasons , if any Treason can be inexcusable that is befriended with such an Apologist . [ 'T was for the Royal House of Scotland that they suffered in those days ; and 't is for the same Illustrious Family we are ready to hazard all on any occasion . ] Sir , we have found you notoriously False in that which you Affirm : Pray God you prove True in that which you Promise . [ Nor can the consequence of the former procedure be but ill , if a Henry VIII . ( whom Sir W. Raleigh , and my Lord Cherbury , two famous Protestants , have so homely Characteriz'd ) should after twenty years cohabitation turn away his Wife , and this out of scruple of Conscience as he said ) when as History declares that he never spared Woman in his Lust , nor Man in his Fury . This Character would better agree with many a Head of a Church whom we could name you , than with Henry VIII . of whom better * Historians speak better things . But if he were such a Monster as you would make him , perhaps it was for want of a better Religion ; for he was * perfectly of Yours , except only in the point of Supremacy . And you had no occasion for this flurt at him ; unless that , having undertaken to put the best colours upon Treason , you might think you did something towards it in bespattering of Kings . We have a touch of the same Art in the next Paragraph . Where having undertaken to excuse the Gun-powder-Treason , you call it first a Misdemeanor , then the Fifth of November , and then a Conjuration ; soft words all of them : but you deal wicked hardly with the great Minister of State ; whom you make to have been the Author of it ; as if the Traitors had not conspired against the State , but the State against them . But before we come to answer this , It will be needful to set down the story , as it appears out of the Examinations and Confessions of the Traitors themselves . The rise of this Treason , was from the before-mentioned Breves of Pope Clement VIII . in which he required all his Catholicks , that after the death of that wretched Woman Queen Elizabeth , they should admit none but a Catholick to reign over them . These Breves were by Garnet the Provincial of the Jesuites , communicated to Catesby and others : who in Obedience thought best to begin their Practices in her life time . So they sent Father Tesmund and Winter into Spain to crave the assistance of that Crown . The Spaniard sent them back with the promise of an Army . But soon after Queen Elizabeth died , and no Army came . Therefore again they sent Christopher Wright into Spain to hasten i● and Stanley out of Flanders sent Fawks thither upon the same errand ; who finding the Councils of Spain at this time wholly enclined to peace , returned quickly back , and brought nothing but despair along with them . Yet the Breves had so wrought upon Catesby , that he could not find in his heart to give over ; but still casting about for ways , he hit upon this of the Powder-Treason , which as being much out of the common Rode , he thought the most secure for his purpose He communicated this to Winter , who approved it , and fetcht Fawks out of Flanders to assist in it . Not long after Piercy being in their company , and offering himself to any service for the Catholick Cause , though it were even the Kings Death : Catesby told him , that that was too poor an Adventure for him : but , saith he , if thou wilt be a Traitor , there is a Plot of greater advantage ; and such a one as can never be discovered . Thus having duly prepar'd him , he took him into the Conspiracy . And the like he did with so many more as made up their Number thirteen of the Laity . But where were the Jesuites all the while ? rot idle , you may be sure . The Provincial Garnet was privy to it from the beginning , so were divers * more of the Society . Insomuch that when Watson endeavour'd to have drawn them into his Plot ( for the setting up of the Lady Arbella's Title , in opposition to King James his ) they declin'd it , * saying , They had another of their own then afoot , and that they would not mingle designs with him for fear of hindering one another . But Watson miscarried with his Plot , and the Jesuites went on with theirs . They absolv'd the Conspirators of the Guilt , and extenuated the Danger of their design ; they perswaded them how highly Beneficial it would be in the Consequences of it ; they gave them their Oath , by the Holy Trinity , and the Sacrament which they did then receive , that none of them should reveal it to any other , or withdraw himself from it without common consent : and for the pittiful scruple of destroying the Innocent with the Guilty , Garnet answered , they might lawfully do it in order to a greater good . Yet it seems there was a spark of Humanity in some of them . which the Divinity of this Casuist had not quite extinguish't ; as appear'd , either by the absenting of some Lords that were afterward fined for it in the Star-Chamber , or certainly by that Letter of warning to my Lord Monteagle , which was the happy occasion of the Discovery of the whole Treason . In Warwick-shire , where the Princess Elizabeth then was , they had appointed a meeting , under the pretence of a Hunting-Match , to seize upon her , the same day in which the King and his Male Issue were to have been destroyed . There met about fourscore of them , which was a number sufficient for that business . But the news of the Discovery coming among them , they were so dismayed at it , that they desisted from their enterprize , and fled into Stafford-shire ; where , the Countrey being raised against them , they were some of them kill'd , and the rest taken ; and those which were left alive of the prime Conspirators were sent up to London , and there Executed . This is the plain story , now let us see how you colour it . [ Now for the Fifth of November ; with hands lifted up to Heaven , we abominate and detest . ] What is it that you abominate and detest ? That day which is the Festival of our Deliverance ? We can believe you without your hands lifted up to Heaven . Or mean you the Treason which was to have been acted upon that day ? why then do you not speak out and call it so ? For if you cannot afford to call it Treason , it is not the lifting up of your hands that can make us believe you do heartily abominate and detest it . [ And from the bottom of our hearts say , that may they fall into irrecoverable Perdition , who propagate that Faith by the Blood of Kings , which is to be planted in truth and meekness only . ] It was a good caution of a Philosopher to the Son of a common Woman , that he should not throw stones among a multitude , for fear of hitting his Father . You might have had that caution when you threw out this curse ; for your Father the Pope stands fairest for it of all men that we know in the World. [ But let it not displease you , Men , Brethren , and Fathers , if we ask whether Ulysses be no better known ? or who hath forgot the Plots Cromwel framed in his Closet ; not only to destroy many faithful Cavaliers , but also to put a lustre upon his Intelligence , as if nothing could be done without his knowledg . Even so did the then great Minister , who drew some few Desperadoes into this Conjuration , and then discovered it by a Miracle . ] Having spit and wip't your mouth , now you make your speech . And it begins with a mixture of Apostle and Poet ; to shew what we are to expect from you ; namely , with much Gravity , much Fiction : and so far you do not go about to deceive us . The scope of your speech is to make the world believe that your Catholicks were drawn into this Plot by Secretary Cecil . You are so wise , that you do not offer to prove this ; but you would steal it into us by an example , that we are concerned in . As Cromwel trepann'd many faithful Cavaliers , even so Cecil drew in some few Desperadoes . Comparisons ( they say ) are odious : But to the business . First , admitting your Fiction , as if it were true , that Cecil did draw in those wretches into this Treason . Was it ever the less Treason because he drew them into it ? For , according to your own supposition , they did not know that they were drawn in by him . But they verily thought that they had followed their own Guides ; and they zealously did according to their own Principles . They did , what they would have done , if there had been no Cecil in the world ; provided there had been a Devil in his room , to have put it into their heads . For your excuse only implies , that they had not the Wit to invent it : But their progress in it shews , that they wanted not the Malice to have executed it . So that according to your own illustration : As those faithful Cavaliers whom Cromwel drew in , had their Loyalty abused , & were nevertheless Faithful still ; so those Powder-Traitors whom you say Cecil drew in , had their Disloyalty outwitted , and were nevertheless Traitors still . For as well in the one case as in the other , this very thing that they could be drawn in , is a clear demonstration that they were before-hand sufficiently Disposed for it . Secondly , When you have considered the absurdity of your excuse for your friends , you may do well to think of an excuse for your Self . For that which you affirm of Cecil's having drawn them into this Plot , is a very groundless and impudent Fiction , and you are properly the Author of it . For though others perhaps may have spoken this in raillery ; yet you are the first , that we know of , that has asserted it in Print . Pray Sir , whence had you this tale ? By what Tradition did you receive it ? Or had you some new Revelation of the Causes threescore years after the Fact ? For 't is plain , that King James * knew nothing of it . Bellarmin and his fellow Apologists in that Age never pretended it . The parties themselves , neither at their Tryal , nor at their Execution , gave any intimation of it . Can you tell us which of the Conspirators were Cecil's Instruments to draw in the rest ? Or can you think he was so great an Artist , that he could perswade his Setters to be hang'd , that his Art might not be suspected ? For 't is well known that he sav'd not any of those wretches from suffering . And they which did suffer , charged none other , but themselves , in their Confessions . Particularly , Father Garnet said , before Doctor Overal , and divers others , that he would give all the World , if it were his , to clear his Conscience , or his Name from that Treason , These are strong presumptions of the Negative ; but you ought to have proved your Affirmative , or at least to have offered something toward it . For if barely to say this , be enough , then here is an excuse indifferently calculated for all Treasons in the world that miscarry : ( and if they prosper , who dares call them Treasons ? ) Here is a never failing Topick for any one that would write an Apology in behalf of any Villany whatsoever . For if the Traitors be discover'd by any kind of accident , this will alwaies remain to be said for them , that the then great Minister drew them in . But why did you not say this for those Conspiracies in Queen Elizabeths daies ? You might have said it perhaps with less improbability . But then had you a higher Game to fly at , namely the Queens Title to her Crown ; and if you durst have made so bold with King James his , you would not have stoopt at so low a Quarry as a Minister of State. But by the way we cannot but acknowledge , that you Jesuites are a sort of most obliging Gentlemen . If men will believe what you Say , nothing that you do can fall amiss . In your attempts against the life of Queen Elizabeth , you obliged his Majesty that now is , as being Martyrs for the Royal House of Scotland . And in your Plot to blow up that Royal House , you were a kind of Fellow-sufferers with the Faithful Cavaliers ; for as they us'd to be trapp'd by Cromwel , even so you were drawn in by Secretary Cecil . It is worth observing in this Paragraph , how you diminish that hellish Plot , by calling them that were engag'd in it , a few Desperadoes . The Fewness of them will be considered in your next . But in what sense do you call them Desperadoes ? Were they such in respect of their Fortunes ? That is so well known to be false , that it needs no Answer . Were they such in respect of their Discontents ? that seems to be your Meaning . But there was little Reason for any . For at the time of this Conspiracy , there was none of your Priests in Prison , there was no Mult taken of any Lay-man , Nor was there a man of them , as King James . * said , that could alledge any pretended cause of grief . And yet they were continually Restless , as we have shewn you in their story . Was it because they had not all the Liberty they would have had ? This is so far from excusing them , that it rathet gives us occasion of suspecting You. 'T is no wonder that you , who cannot afford to call this Conspiracy a Treason , are not willing to allow the Discovery of it a Miracle . Yet you might have forborn Scoffing at it , in respect to king * James , who was pleas'd to Name it so . Especially when his adversary Bellarmin * acknowledges that it was not without a Miracle of Divine Providence . And sure our King makes a better use of this word Miracle in the thankful acknowledgement of Gods great Mercy in his deliverance ; than your Pope * Sixtus V. did in his insolent Oration upon the King of France's Murder ; by which we may guess what Some body would have called this Plot , if it had Sped . [ This will easily appear , viz. how little the Catholick Party understood the Design , seeing there was not a score of Guilty found , though all imaginable industry was used by the Commons , Lords , and Privy Council too . ] The design it self was understood but by Few , because it was neither safe nor needful to impart it to many . But the Papists generally knew that there was a Design in hand ; and though they did not know the horrid nature of it , yet many of them pray'd for the success of it : and if the Plot had taken effect , and the Hunting-Match had gone on , we should then have been better able to have judg'd how your Catholick Party stood affected toward it . Sure enough though there were but a * Score in the Treason , yet there appear'd fourscore in the Rebellion : and it cannot be imagin'd , that so small a Number could Expect , without any other Assistance , to have made any great Advantage by surprizing the Lady Elizabeth . But when the Treason had miscarried , as hateful as it was , ( for who does not hate Treason when it is unsuccessful ? ) yet many of you had a high Veneration for some of those Wretches that were deeply engaged in it . What a Coil here was about the Miracle of Father Garnet's straw ? And perhaps you have seen his Picture , and Gerard's too among the * Martyrs of your Society . Nay his Holiness himself shew'd his good Will to them , when after all this , he made Tesmund Penitentiary at S. Peters in Rome . [ But suppose , my Lords and Gentlemen , ( which never can be granted ) that all the Papists of that Age were consenting , will you be so severe then to still punish the Children for the Fathers Faults ? ] [ Nay such Children that so unanimously joyned with you in that glorious Quarrel , when you and we underwent such sufferings , that needs we must have all sunk , had not our mutual love assisted . ] You suppose that which is False , to avoid that which is True. For who ever said , that All the Papists of that Age were Consenting to the Gun-Powder-Treason ? Or who can deny that some Papists in this Age retain the Principles of them that were consenting to it ? Who , although they are not to be Punisht for what their Predecessors did ; yet they ought to be so restrained , that they may not do like their Predecessors . And though , by that long word Unanimously , you endeavour to shuffle in the men of these Principles , amongst them that served his Majesty in that Glorious Quarrel : Yet we think it no hard matter to distinguish them . For those among you which did the King Service , are not so many but that they may be Numbred . And as for the rest of you , which Only suffer'd with us , we thank you for your Love , but not for your Assistance . For we could not well have sunk lower than we did . But some of you floted the while ▪ like Cork ; and others of you swum upon the Bladders of Dispensations . So that as we received no Help from you in your Swimming ; so we can apprehend no Assurance of you by your Sufferings . [ What have we done that we should now deserve your Anger ? has the indiscretion of some few incensed you ; 't is true , that is the thing objected . ] Sir , our Anger is only a Necessary Care , that what you now call your Indiscretions , may not grow to be such as you lately call'd your Misdemeanors . [ Do not you know an Enemy may easily mistake a Mass-Bell for that which calls to Dinner ? ] We know he may upon a Fast-day ; For then you use to ring your Vesper - Bell before Dinner . And how can a simple Heretick tell , whether it calls you , to Pray , or to eat Fish ? But we do not know that ever any of you was brought in trouble about this Question . [ Or a Sequestrator be glad to be affronted being Constable ? when 't was the hatred to his Person , and not present Office , which perchance egg'd a a rash man to folly . ] Possibly he May be glad of it . For it was your Jesuitical distinction between Person and Office , that first holp him to be a Sequestrator . And now he sees that Distinction come in play ; he may hope , within a while , to have his Place again . ( We dare with submission say , Let a publick invitation be put up against any Party whatsoever ; nay , against the Reverend Bishops themselves and some malicious Informer or other will alledge that , which may be far better to conceal . ) ( Yet all mankinde by a Manifesto on the house door are incouraged to accuse us ; nor are they upon Oath , though your Enemies and ours take all for granted and true . ) What an Ambush you have laid here for the Bishops ! to have them thought Popish , because you Reverence them , and Obnoxious , in such matters , as ( you say ) it may be far better to conceal . But as in the one , your kindness to them is sufficiently understood . So they are able to defie your Malice in the other . 'T is for a Bishop of Donna Olympia's * to need concealment . Our Bishops in England are of another make , than to hold their Credit at any one's Courtesie . For the Manifesto that troubled you , what could the Parliament do less , when the Complaints of you were great in all parts of the Nation , than to Invite men to bring their Grievances to the proper place of Redress ? But then say you , men were not upon Oath , for what they said against you . What a Hardship was this , that the House of Commons would not do that for your sakes , which no House of Commons ever did upon any occasion ? [ It can not be imagined where there is so many men of heat and youth , ( ever joyned with the happy restauration of their Prince ) and remembring the insolencies of their Grandees , that they should all at all times prudently carry themselves ; for this would be to be more than men . And truly we ecteem it as a particular blessing , that God hath not suffered many through vanity or frailty to fall into greater faults , than are yet as we understand laid to our charge . ] The King will never be out of your debt , if a Jesuite may but keep the reckoning . Your old Treasons you put upon the account of his Family and Friends , and your late Insolencies upon the score of his most Happy restauration . But would you seriously perswade us , that , at six years distance , so many men of heat and youth were still transported with the Joy of that Blessing ? That there were some fresher causes of this Jollity , has been vehemently suspected by many , who considered the great Unseasonableness of it , in so Calamitous a time , while the Fire was ranging in our Metropolis , and a French Army lay hovering upon our Coasts . ( Can we chuse but be dismay'd ( when all things fail ) that extravagant Crimes are fathered upon us . It is we must be the Authors ( some say ) of firing the City , even we that have lost so vastly by it ; yet in this , our ingenuity is great , since we think it no Plot , though our Enemy an Hugonot Protestant acknowledged the Fact , and was justly Executed for his vain Confession . Again , if a Merchant of the Church of England buy Knives for the business of his Trade ; This also is a Papist Contrivance to destroy the well affected . ) There can be nothing charged on you , more extravagant than those things were , which your Predecessors committed , and which here , You have taken upon you to justifie or excuse . The Particulars of your Charge , whatsoever they are , we leave to the Consideration of the Parliament : where we heartily wish there may appear more Reason on your side , than there is to be found in this Apology . For as to the Firing of the City , if according to your words ( which we have not hitherto found to be Gospel ) you have lost so vastly by it ; yet that will not Acquit you from the suspicion of the Fact. in the judgment of any one that considers the Determination of your late Provincial , * viz. that it is lawful to destroy the Inrocent with the Guilty in order to a greater good . And it seems this vast loss goes not near your Heart ; one would think so by your pleasantness in the very next passage . For there you call Hubert your Enemy , and a Hugonot Protestant : which Hubert , after Father Harvey had had him at Confession , did indeed affirm himself to be a Protestant ; but then being askt whether he meant a Hugonot ( which it seems was beyond his Instruction to say ) he earnestly denied that , as he very well might , for he then also declar'd that he believed Confession to a Ptiest was necessary to his salvation : and being admonish'd to call upon God , he repeated an Ave-Mary , which he said was his usual Prayer . So that it evidently appears , he was neither Hugonot , nor Protestant , nor Your Enemy upon any account of Religion . And yet you , being about to avouch this knot of Falshoods , are pleased to usher them in with this Preface , ( either in Praise of your Brother Harveys Pious Fraud , or of your own Proper Vertue ) Truly in this , our ingenuity is great . [ We must a little complain finding it by experience , that by reason you discountenance us , the People rage : and again , because they rage , we are the more forsaken by you . ] [ Assured we are , that our conversation is affable , and our Houses so many Hospitable receipts to our Neighbours . Our acquaintance therefore we fear at no time ; but it is the stranger we dread : that ( taking all on hear-say ) zealously wounds , and then examines the business when it is too late , or is perchance confirmed by another , that knows no more of us than he himself . ] [ T is to you we must make our Applications , beseeching you ( as Subjects tender of our King ) to intercede for us in the execution , and weigh the Dilemma , which doubtless he is in , either to deny so good a Parliament their requests , or else run counter to his Royal Inclinations , when he punishes the weak and harmless . ] He that complains without a cause , must be heard without redress . We only desire to be Safe from those dangers , to which your Principles would expose us , and against which neither Affableness nor Hospitality will secure us . The Protestants of Ireland were never so treated and caressed by their Popish Neighbors , as they were the very year before ▪ they cut their throats . The best Means of our security , is , that which his Majesty has been pleased to require , viz. The discreet Execution of his Laws . By which ( if others shall please to distinguish themselves from the rest by renouncing their disloyal Principles ) only the disloyal and seditious will be kept weak , that they may be harmless . [ Why may we not , noble Country-men , hope for favour from you , as well as French Protestants finde from theirs ? a greater duty then ours none could express , we are sure ; or why should the United Provinces , and other magistrates ( that are harsh both in mind and manners ) refrain from violence against our Religion , and your tender breasts seem not to harbour the least compassion or pity ? ] [ These barbarous People Sequester none for their Faith , but for Transgression against the State. Nor is the whole Party involved in the Crime of a few , but every man suffers for his own and proper fault . Do you then the like , and he that offends , let him dye without Mercy : ] [ And think alwayes , I beseech you , of Cromwels Injustice : who for the Actions of some against his pretended Laws , drew thousands into decimation , even ignorant of the thing , after they had vastly paid for their security and quiet . ] We have answer'd your Instances , of the French Protestants , and the Dutch Papists ; and your unjust upbraiding us with the greatness of your Duty , and with our want of compassion and pity . And yet , as if all these were Unanswerable , you come over with them again and again . These barbarous people , you say , sequester none for their Faith ; but pray what did you , when you govern'd the Civiliz'd World ? you hang'd and burn'd men , for no other cause but their Faith ; and this you did with abundance of Civility ; so it seems we may be worse than Barbarous , and yet much better than you . But that were little for our credit , unless we had this to say more ; that not the worst of you suffers any otherwise than by known Laws , or any more than is of pure Necessity . For , we hold it Necessary to maintain the Authority of the King , and the Peace of the Nation . If you call any thing Religion , that is contrary to these ; must we therefore alter our Laws ? or ought you to mend your Religion ? You put the Effigies of Cromwel upon any thing that you would render odious ; as your Inquisition bedresses one with Pictures of Devils , whom they are about to burn for his Religion . For such Disguizes are apt to work much upon the weak judgements of the multitude . But he must be very weak indeed that cannot perceive the wide Difference , between the Edicts of Cromwel , that were design'd to Ruine men for their Loyalty , and those Laws that our Princes have made to Restrain them from Treason and Rebellion . [ We have no other study , but the glory of our Sovereign , and just liberty of the Subjects . ] Sir , if we may judge by your Works , there is nothing less studied in your Colledge . [ Nor was it a mean Argument of our Duty , when every Catholick Lord gave his voice for the Restauration of Bishops ; by which we could pretend no other advantage , but that 26 Votes ( subsisting wholly by the Crown ) were added to the defence of Kingship , and consequently a check to all Anarchy and Confusion . ] This is no Argument of Your Duty ; for , sure , You are no Lord. Nor is it likely that these Lords follow'd Your direction in the doing of this Duty . [ 'T is morally impossible but that we who approve of Monarchy in the Church , must ever be fond of it in the State also . ] If you mean this of Papists in General , that which you call morally impossible , is Experimentally True. For in Venice , Genoa , Lucca , and the Popish Cantons of Switzerland , where they very well approve of Monarchy in the Church ; yet they are not fond of it in the State also . But if you mean this of the Jesuitical Party , then it may be true in this sense , that you would have the Pope to be sole Monarch both in Spirituals and Temporals . [ Yet this is a misfortune , we now plainly feel , that the longer the late Transgressors live , the more forgotten are their Crimes , whiles distance in time calls the faults of our Fathers to remembrance , and buries our own Allegiance in eternal oblivion and forgetfulness . ] We can now allow you to complain , and commend your selves without Measure ; having prov'd already , that you do it without cause . [ My Lords and Gentlemen , consider we beseech you the sad condition of the Irish Soldiers now in England ; the worst of which Nation could be but intentionally so wicked , as the acted Villany of many English , whom your admired Clemency pardoned . Remember how they left the Spanish Service when they heard their King was in France ; and how they forsook the Employment of that unnatural Prince , after he had committed the never to be forgotten Act of banishing his distressed Kinsman out of his Dominions . These poor men left all again to bring their Monarch to his home : and shall they then be forgotten by you ? or shall my Lord Douglas and his brave Scots be left to their shifts , who scorned to receive wages of those who have declared War against England . To swell up the Bill of the Merits of your Party , you take in the Services of the Irish and Scottish Soldiers , as if they were a part of the English Catholicks , whom you profess to plead for in the Title of your Apology . And that you may seem to have done this , in kindness to Them , and not to your Selves ; you exhort us to Consider them , in such terms , as if You were the first that had ever thought of them . God forbid but they should be consider'd as they deserve ; and he is neither good Christian , nor good Subject , that would grudge to contribute his proportion toward it . But you seem to have a farther drift in the mentioning of these Loyal Irish. For you immediately mingle them with the worst of that Nation ; namely with those infamous Butchers , that in times of as great Peace and Liberty as ever that Nation enjoyed , and in the Name of that gracious King under whom they enjoyed these , cut the throats of above an hundred thousand of his Protestant Subjects of all Sexes and Ages . It was so black a Villany , that You , the Apologist of such Actions , knew not how to mention in its proper place , viz. after the French Massacre , because you had not wherewith to colour it . And yet being conscious to your self that this lay as a blot upon your Cause , you thought fit to place it among these brave Men ; as if their Names would mend the hue of an Action that will make the Names of all that had to do in it , look black , and detestable to Mankind , throughout all Generations . Nor do you deal much better with our Royallists themselves ; of whom you do not stick to affirm , that in their admired Clemency , ( and if this were true , who would not admire it ? ) they pardon'd Many English , whose Acted Villanies were so wicked , that the worst of the Irish Nation could be but Intentionally so wicked in their Villanies . [ How commonly is it said that the Oath of Renouncing their Religion is intended for these , which will needs bring this loss to the King and you , that either you will force all of our Faith to lay down their Arms ( though by experience of great Integrity and Worth ) or else , if some few you retain , they are such whom necessity hath made to swear against Conscience , and who therefore will certainly betray you , when a greater advantage shall be offered . By this Test then you can have none , but whom ( with Caution ) you ought to shun . And thus must you drive away those who truly would serve you ; for had they the least thought of being false , they would gladly take the advantage of gain and pay to deceive you ] You proceed , concerning the Irish and Scottish Soldiers , in these words ; How commonly is it said , that the Oath of Renouncing their Religion is intended for them ! Pray Sir , can you tell who are said to intend this ? For if they are such as have no Authority , it is frivilous . If they are such as have Authority , it is false . And we do verily believe it was never said , wisht , or thought of , by any one that lov'd the King , and the peace of the Nation . But what trick had this Jesuite in his head when he fram'd this ? One may guess at his design : But let it pass . Perhaps he only imagined this , to heighten his Fancy , that he might think and write the more Tragically toward the end of his Oration . [ We know your Wisdom and Generosity , and therefore cannot imagine such a thing ; nor do we doubt when you shew favour unto these , but you will use mercy to us , who are both your fellow Subjects , and your own flesh and blood also ; if you forsake us , we must say the world decayes , and its final transmutation must needs follow quickly . ] Here you un-imagine for the Souldiers , and imagine for your self ; and , as if you really thought your self in danger , you beg for mercy of the Royalists , in such words as your Predecessor * us'd to the Rebels . Only for the last strain , we do not know that any one hit upon it before , nor do believe that any one will ever use it again . [ Little do you think the insolencies we shall suffer by Commitee men , &c. whom chance and lot , hath put into petty Power . Nor will it chuse but grieve you to see them abused ( whom formerly you loved ) even by the common enemies of us both . ] It seems Committee-men are intrusted with his Majesties Authority ; or that none must use it against Papists for fear of being accounted Committee-men . It is time to have done , when we are come to the dregs of your Rhetorick . [ When they punish , how will they triumph and say , take This ( poor Romanists ) for your love to Kingship ; and again This , for your long doting on the Royal Party : all which you shall receive from us Commissioned by your dearest Friends , and under this Cloak we will gladly vent our private spleen and malice . Sir , though you set your self before to speak Tragically , this does rather seem a piece of Drollery . But you Have your design either way . For no man can read it , but he must either Laugh , or Shake his head . [ We know my Lords and Gentlemen , that from your hearts you do deplore our condition , yet permit us to tell you , your bravery must extend thus far , as not to sit still , with pity only , but each is to labour for the distressed as far as in reallity his ability will reach : Some must beseech our Gracious Sovereign for us , others again must undeceive the good , though deluded multitude : therefore all are to remember who are the prime raisers of the storm ; and how through our sides they would wound both the King and you : for though their hatred to us our selves is great , yet the enmity out out of all measure increases , because we have been yours , and so shall continue even in the fiery day of tryal . Protect us we beseech you then , upon all your former promises , or if that be not sufficient , for the sakes of those that lost their Estates with you ; many of which are now fallen asleep : But if this be still too weak , we must conjure you by the sight of this bloody Catalogue , which contains the names of your murthered Friends and Relations , who in the heat of the Battle perchance saved many of your lives , even with the joyful lofs of their own . Sir , in answer to this Paragraph , you oblige us to speak plainer , what before we only intimated to you . It was the policy of the Rebels in the beginning of the late War , to harrass the Papists in all parts of the Kingdom . One Reason of it was to make his Majesty Odious ; for , the Papists being his Subjects , and having none but him to fly to , it was certain he would do what he could to Protect them , and this would make many Zealous People believe ▪ that what the Rebels pretended was true , viz. that his Majesty was a Friend to Popery . Another Reason was to enrich themselves with their Spoils , and to invite the Needy Rabble with a Prospect of Booty ; among which , if they found a string of Beads , or a Crucifix , it serv'd them upon both Accounts , both to fill their Pockets , and to justifie the Cause . By this Means you were driven into his Majesties Garrisons ; where , besides those that Voluntarily offer'd themselves to his Service , many of you were Necessitated to it for a subsistance , and many more of you did not serve him at all , but only shrowded your selves under his Protection . Whereas the Protestant Royallists had no such Necessity , for they might have been welcome to the Rebels , to do as They did ; or they might have been Permitted to live quietly at their home . But they chose to do otherwise , and were hated the more for it by the Rebels , because they preferr'd their duty before those Considerations . From this account of the Motives that brought us together , it is easie to Judge how far we are in Debt to one another . First , As for them which lost their Estates with us , We remember those things were alledged in their Defence , * which we would have been loth to have admitted in ours . But possibly it was not their Fault that these things were Alledg'd , nor was it to our Advantage that they were not Accepted . For the Rebels , having devour'd these Gentlemens Estates , fell to ours , with the more Colour , and never the less Appetite . In your Catolague of those Papists which were Slain in the Service , you have Omitted some names which we are able to Reckon . But perhaps you did this in Design , that you might the more excusably Reckon some names that you ought to have Omitted . So you begin with my Lord of Carnarvon , the onely noble man in your Catalogue , who was indeed too negligent of his Religion , till he came to be in view of Death ; But then , in his extremities , he Refus'd a Priest of yours , and Ordered the Chaplain * of his Regiment to pray with him . If you take this libert of stealing Martyrs , we have Reason to wonder , that you had not taken in one that would have adorn'd your Cause indeed , viz. his Majesty himself ; since Militiere * was not asham'd to publish , that that Blessed and Glorious Prince died of your Religion . Him alone we might weigh against All that ever was good in your Church . But besides , we could reckon you a far greater number of Protestants , than you pretend to do of Papists , that lost their lives also in the Day of Battle . They lost them joyfully , in hopes to have sav'd his Majesty's Life ; and 't was an Accession to their Joy , if perchance they sav'd any of yours . But did they ever intend their sufferings should go for nothing , or become Ciphers to yours in the day of Reckoning ? or that their blood should be made use of to stop the Execution of those Laws for which they shed it ? Did they think your condition was so deplorable , or their own was superfluously fenced and secured against you before the late troubles ? Pray Sir do not perswade us to believe a thing so incredible , or to do at the rate as if we did believe it . Rather if you have such an opinion of your own Faculty ; Try what you can do with your own Party , and perswade them to do what is fittest & best for Themselves . But because the Genius of your Writing does not give us any such Hopes of You : We shall rather make bold to say something from our selves , by way of Advice , to as many of them as may happen to need it , and are capable to receive it . We desire them to content them selves with that condition which they enjoy'd under his Majesties Royal Predecessors : and neither to Disparage those dayes , by endeavouring to perswade the world that they which suffered then for Treason died for Religion ; Nor to Undervalue all the Liberties which they now Enjoy , if they may not be allow'd to Exceed the Measures of their Fathers . We wish they would not , for the paring of their nails , make all Christendom ring with Cries of Persecution . We wish them deeply to lay to Heart , the Honor , and Peace , and Welfare of their Nation . To abhor him , that could wish to see it in Troubles , in hope that at next Turn it would settle in Popery ; or that could finde in his heart to bid a Foreigner welcome upon the terms of restoring Catholick Religion . We desire them to keep their Religion to themselves : and not lay about them , as some do , to make Proselytes ; of which they have had a plentiful harvest in the late Confusions ; and if they should think to go on at that rate , we have reason to fear , it would be a means to bring us into Confusion again . We desire them at least not to abuse the weakness of dying persons : nor under pretence of carrying Alms to condemn'd Prisoners , to Convert some of them with Drink , and to Cheat others with hopes of Salvation upon easier tearms than ever God yet declar'd unto Men. We desire them not to hinder the course of Justice , by interposing in the behalf of any Criminal , because he is a Catholick . We desire them to content themselves , as their Fathers have done , with such Priests as are known and protected * by the Civil Power ; and that They would be pleas'd to demean themselves as Priests ought to do : not disguising themselves like Hectors , or mingling with Gentlemen , to poyson the Clubs and Coffee-Houses with Phanatick Discourses , or even with Atheism it self , to destroy all Religion that they may have their will upon ours . We desire them not to fill the World with their Pamphlets , Parallels , Philanaxes , Exhortations , Apologies , &c which tend only to the fermenting of Mens Passions , not at all to the conviction of their Reason . If they please to come into the fair Field of Controversie , we shall not decline them ; and we think we are not in Debt to them upon that Account . But for Books of the other sort which are apt only to inflame Parties , and make the People Jealous , and the Government Uneasie , We wish they would spare their Own pains , and consequently Ours . If they will not ; let them bear their own blame , and let them Answer it to the world what Occasion they had to give us this trouble of Answering them . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A48822-e90 V. Cambdeni Annales . Anno 1586. concerning Babington's Conspiracy . * Answer to Philanax , p. 85 † So Argyle said Let them take all , since my Lord the King is come home in peace . * K James Premonition , p. 336. of his Works . * V. I●● . K. Charles his Testimony in his Letter to the Prince . Conc. Lateran . IV. c. 3. Bellarm. in Barclaium c. 31. † Extrav . de Majoritate & O●ed . c. 1. Unam sanctam * 1 Pet. 2. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●ulg . Lat. Om●● humanae 〈◊〉 . Jer. 1. 10. Plat. in Vit. Bonf. VIII . Lanc. in Temploomn . Judic . l. 2. c. 1. Sect. 4 Ib. in Traef . Bell. de Rom. Pont. l 5. c. 8. Baron . Anno 800. Sect. 10. Bell. in Bar claium c. 3. Suar. in Reg. M. B. l. 6. c. 4. Sect. 20. Greg. de Val. Tom. 3. in Thomam dis . 1. q. 12. p. 2 . ●hilopater . p. 149. * Jan. 15. 1615 † Note that the Pope sent him thanks for it ; & King James writ in answer to it , that solid Defence of the Right of Kings * Ross. p. 85. * Bell. de Rom. Pont. l. 5. c. 7. † Watsons Quodlibets , p. 255 , and 295 , &c. out of Bannez , Valentia , and Parsons . The Exhortation in the afternoon , p. 22. 1. His speech in Parliament . p 504. of his Works . Daniel's Hist. Ric. I. in fin . Walsingham . Edw. I. 1298. 25. E. 3. Vide Statute of Provisors . * Mat. Westm. 1301. Thu. Hist. l. 1. The Spaniard holds the Kingdoms of Navar and of Naples , and Sicily , only by the Popes gift ; by which he should have Ireland too , and England , but that the right Heir keeps them from him . Walsingham , Hist. Edw. I. 1306. Letter to the Prince . † V L'Estrange 1639. in Habernfields Relation . * Answer to the Reasons for no Address . Large Declaration concerning the tumults in Scotland , p. 3. * Answer to the Reasons for the Votes of no Address † Answer to Philanax , p. 59 Dolemans Conference of Succession , part 2. p. 237. * Second Moderator , p. 43. * 1647 , 1656 , 1659. † First Moderator , p. 59. * Second Moderator , p. 41. V. Answer to Philanax , p. 63. of Father Bret. . † First Moderator , p. 31. * First Moderator . p. 36. * K. James Defence of the Right of Kings p. 479 , 480. * Thu. Hist. l , 53. * Thu. Hist. l. 52. * Guignard , in his Oration said , It was ae great error that they had not cut the Basilick vein . * Id. l. 53. * Thu. Hist. l. 52. saith , that being forewarn'd of the Plot , & advised to stand upon his Guard ; He wisht rather to have his Body drag'd , &c. than to see any more Civil Wars in Franc. Defence of the right of Kings , in his Works , p. 479 , 480. Thu. Hist. l. 53. * Henry III. of France . * Henry IV. † Thu. Hist. l. 91. * Rossaeus , one of your Predecessors , calls him a thousand times worse than Mahomet , p. 170. & saith , From the beginning of the world , no Nation or State ever endured such a Tyrant , p. 171. * Sixtus ● . quoted his own Prediction in his Oration that follows . * Printed at Paris , 1589 , by the Printers of the Holy League , and approved by the Sorbon . * K. James works , p. 483. Canon Agatho Dist. 63. Fauchet . Anno 801. c. 10. that the Pope ador'd him , not he the Pope . * Council of Frankford , An. 794. Philopater . p. 103. Ross. p. 223. saith of them that were pretended to die for your Religion , Where was it ever heard that they denied her to have been the lawful Queen . * Philip II. and Henry III. for themselves , & the Emperor Maximilian for his Brother Charles . * Council of Trent . l. 5. An : 1558. * In his Letter by Parpaglia , dated 1560. May 5. * Dated 1570. Feb. 25. † See the Bull it self , there is not the least mention of Bastardy in it . * James Buoncompagno . † Don John. * Whom his Holiness had created Marquess of Lemster , Earl of Wexford , &c. Thu. Hist. l. 64. Cambden , Eliz. 1600. * Cambden Eliz . 1588. † Cardinal Allen's Admonition . V. Watson's Quodl . p. 240. and 247. * Cambden Eliz . , An. 1589. Watso . Quodl . p. 150. † Cambden Ib. Anno 1593. Watson Ib. p. 154. * Cambden Ib. Anno 1594. Dolmans Conference about the next succession to the Crown . † Dolman . part . 2. p. 9. * Cambden Ib. 1602. Watson . Ib. p. 279. † Dolman Ib. p. 109. * Ib. p 110. † VVatson . Ib. p. 107. * Tortura Torti . p. 197. * Watson . Ib. p. 150. * V. Thu. Hist. l. 1. * Philopater , p. 308. and 323. & v. Thu. Ib. * Baldwin , Hammond , Tesmund , and Gerard , were named by the Conspirators , as privy with them . * V. VVatsons Confession . * V. His speech in Parliament 1605. and his Relation , &c. Warmington , p. 7. saith ▪ None were therein culpable , but only Jesuites and Catholicks . Casaub. Epist. ad Front. Du●●um . * King James Speech in Parliament , 1605. * Ib. * Tortus , p. 85. Edit . Colon. * Sixti Orat. * 5 Jesuiteb 13. Lay-men , besides Owen and Stanley ▪ * At La Fleche , and elsewhere . * V. Her Life . p. 61. and p. 156 , 157. * Garnet in the Case of the Powder-plot . Lord Orory's Answer to W●lsh , p. 20. saith . Within few months about two hundred thousand . * First Moderator , p. 76. Your own Kindred and Allies , your own Countrymen , born to the same freedom with your selves ; who have in Much less measure ( than the Scots ) offended in matter of Hostility , nay divers of them not at all . * Second Mo derater , p. 43. Most of them in the begining of the late War ( seeing themselves unprotected by the Parliament , & exposed to the plunder of the then Soldiery ) fled into the King's Garrisons , to save their own lives , without taking up Arms to offend others . * Second Moderator , p. 43. * Mr Langford * In his Victory of Truth . D. of Medina in 88. said his Sword knew no distinction between Catholick and Heretick , * V. Cambden's Eliz. 1602.