A second dialogue between the Pope and a phanatick, concerning affairs in England by the author of the first, who is a hearty lover of his prince and country. Hearty lover of his prince and country. 1681 Approx. 25 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-11 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A41189 Wing F758 ESTC R17988 11865184 ocm 11865184 50082 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A41189) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 50082) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 29:1) A second dialogue between the Pope and a phanatick, concerning affairs in England by the author of the first, who is a hearty lover of his prince and country. Hearty lover of his prince and country. Ferguson, Robert, d. 1714. [2], 14 p. Printed for H. Jones, London : 1681. Attributed by Wing to Robert Ferguson. Reproduction of original in Harvard University Libraries. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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By the Author of the First , who is a Hearty Lover of his Prince and Country . LONDON : Printed for H. Jones , 1681. A SECOND DIALOGUE Between the POPE AND A PHANATICK . Pope . BRother , You are welcome to the Belveder , we are now in a Committee of Secresie , and may discourse our thoughts with Freedom , without suspicion of a surprize . How stand our Affairs in England ? Phan. Ah , Sir ! Matters have not succeeded according to my Wishes and Expectations ; I thought I had been secure of my Designs , and this made me act with Confidence ; but ah ! — Pope . What ? Are all our Plots and Intrigues sham'd into a Sigh ? Is your Tripos himself deceiv'd ? I thought he had been so unerringly skill'd in the Arts of undermining , that no Government could have escap'd his Trains . Phan. You know his Antient Predecessor at Delphos was sometimes mistaken , and if our Oracle be at present doubtful , 't is according to former Precedent , and far from Wonder in Demonology . I had great hopes that my terrible Comet-Parliament ( whose Rod did far out-stretch the Regal Scepter ) would have mounted to a higher Elevation than Charles his Wain , and fix'd upon our Horizon : but on a sudden the Comet , and the Parliament , and our hopes dissolv'd together . Pope . In my opinion , your Blazing Commons appear'd with too fiery a Tail , and acted with too much openness and Effrontery ; there was more Capricio than Policy in their Proceedings . Affairs were not ripe enough for their daring Adventures ; they drew up 19 Propositions , and such bold Remonstrances , as if the King had already been their Prisoner in the Isle of Wight . And what a mischief was it to the Liberty-Keepers of England , to send for Gentlemen into Custody , by no other Warrant , but from Will , Will ? this was an unlucky Indication of the Plurality of Arbitrary Powers , and was as much as to say in our Language , Sic volumus , sic jubemus . Their Proceedings being illegal and unwarrantable was their Merit , and not their Crime ; in my opinion , their onely Guilt was the imprudence of a too early Vexation , & their being Arbitrary somewhat too soon . For I am afraid these frequent Hurricanes should impress upon the Abhorrers of Petitions , an Abhorrence of Parliaments , and make the People vote , that the Commons are the greatest Enemies to their own sitting , and give them occasion to Resolve , that if they must be Slaves , they had better with St. Paul be bound with one of Caesar's Chains , than loaden with 500 Irons . Remember that you once govern'd the Nation by a Junto of Commons , without a King or House of Lords , and if by a too early violence you force the King into Extremity , you may give him occasion to Govern the Realm by a King and House of Peers , and , at least , to exclude your Members from the Commons ; for your continu'd Affronts will furnish him with plausible Reasons to excuse the Model , and justifie such a Proceeding . I grant you shew much Gallantry , and met with good Success in the dayes of Charles the First , but I am your elder Brother , and have had longer experience in the Ruin of Empires than your Age can pretend to ; therefore it is my Counsel , as your Friend and Brother , that if you be again allow'd the Priviledge to choose your Representatives , advise them to court the King with fair Pretensions and reserv'd Compliances , till you can , by great Complements and a little money , caress him into an Act of Oblivion , and when he hath forgot both himself and you , then is the time to remember the Good old Cause . Phan. Indeed I now wish that we had treated the King with more fineness , for I know by precedent , that he who is to do Execution upon a Monarch , should not appear bare-fac'd , but in Masquerade : And I have a suspicion that our bolder Votes and Addresses have so awaken'd him , that we may have lost our Advantage : especially considering that he was immediate Successor to a murder'd Father . Pope . But how did you resent the Remove to Oxford ? Phan. Oh Sir , I had a very painful sense of that Removal , it was a kind of Dislocation in the Body Politick : for , methinks , the Commons out of London look like Members out of joynt . This Disappointment depriv'd us of the blessed Advantages of Republican Cabals , and Metropolitan Tumults . But yet , to shew that no change of Air could alter our Nature and Resolutions , we did pursue the same Votes at Oxford , that we had commenc'd at Westminster . My Dictator or Terrae Filius , was just preparing a Speech for the Theatre , but that proud Pile was founded by an Arch-bishop , and so surrounded with Caesars , that we could never enter the Circus , but were dispers'd with a sudden Thunder-clap ; and this gave occasion to some prophane Tantivy-men to ridicule that Assembly , and stile it the Anchovy Parliament , because it dissolv'd so soon upon the first Heat . Pope . But I am told of a Declaration that follow'd that Dissolution , and that the King hath declared , He will govern by his Laws ; and you and I have more reason to be afraid of that , than of his being Arbitrary . Phan. 'T is true , and I believe that Declaration was one of the Evils presag'd by that Malignant Comet ; for , to speak plainly , I was never pleas'd with that Blazing-Rod , for , when it first appear'd in it's Western Position , the Extremity of his Radius seem'd to be just Zenith to the House of Commons : and I am afraid , that Comet was some Tory among the Stars , that had no good meaning to the Lower House ; for when that Parliament dissolved , it presently disappear'd , as if it came on purpose to point at us , and affront us . Pope . Some did fancy here at Rome , that that Star might be the Receptacle of the Souls of Stafford , and the rest of my last Martyrs in England ; and that the large Emanation from the Comet , did remark the streaming Effusions of their Blood , and signifie a Rod to revenge it . Phan. I shall not dispute which Martyrs were the greater Saints your Regicides or mine ; but I must tell you , that I was resolv'd for the Blood of Stafford , not so much upon the account of his Crimes , but in regard to his name ; it sounded so like the Earl of Strafford , that I fancyed his Blood might be happily ominous , and be royally and canonically attended according to our former Precedent . But I assure you of late we are become very tender of Catholick blood , and if the Popish Lords , and my Bosom-Friend Fitz-Harris were to remain untry'd , till we vote them to the Bar , they should be reserv'd till Doomsday . Pope . But Brother , the Comet hath so amus'd you , that you have forgotten the Declaration . Phan. I confess , it did a little divert me ; but , I can as soon forget the Covenant as the Declaration . The King indeed did once pass an Act of Oblivion for us , but it is against our Method of Grace , to grant an Oblivion for the King , except it be to forget his Mercy . To declare against the Collective Wisdom of a Nation , to term the Actions of an Heroick House of Commons , Irregularities , Miscarriages , illegal and unwarrantable Proceeding , this is too high an Affront to be forgotten . For tho we printed our Votes , and discover'd our Secrets , on purpose to inflame the little Sisters , yet for the King to expose the Pudenda , or Nakedness of the Peoples Members , in Churches and Markets , to be observ'd and scoff'd at by Crowds of Tories ; this was uncivil and immodest , nay , about two years ago , I would have call'd it Impudence . But that which added to my Vexation was the Prelatical order for reading of it in the Pulpit ; if it had been denounc'd below the Mount , in the despis'd Service-Desk , it would have had no Impression or Solemnity ; but being publish'd from the Sanctum Sanctorum of the Pulpit , that most Sacred Seat of Oracles , this made it pass for Jure Divino , and because the Voice came from the Pulpit , some silly People were apt to think that the Declaration was made in Heaven . This was a Metropolitan Stratagem , and shall be recorded for the first Article against William the Second . Pope . But I am inform'd that there was an Use of Consolation in the conclusion of that Declaration , wherein the King promis'd the People the Favour of frequent Parliaments . Phan. In my opinion , that is not so great a Favour , except we can sit again next door to Hell , where we may correspond with our old Familiars . But however , Frequent Parliaments suppose frequent Dissolutions , and one Good old fashion'd Long Parliament were worth 500 frequent ones . Pope . But I hope you do not despond , and give up the common Cause as desperate . Phan. I will never despair as long as you have a Being in the World , for I yet find , there is an infallibility in your Name , the crying Pope and Popery is still the surest stratagem , and there could be no successful Plot without that infallible Noise . But that which most supports my hopes , is , the King's want of Money . The Fort Royal is defended by so many Cannons and Regular Fortifications , that there is no way to take it but starving ; And to this end , we have , by a Solemn Vote , made it Treason against the Parliament for the King or his Friends to supply his need , without the consent of his Enemies . For if it be in the power of Zeal , Money , or Perjury , we will send him such Commons as shall never grant him a penny , except he stake his Crown , or some of the Jewels of it . Pope . I would have you declare in all the High Courts of Shops and Coffee-houses , that a Parliament is as necessary to raise Money in England , as a Purgatory at Rome : But I am afraid your Church of England Tories have no more regard to Votes , than you have for Proclamations . And you have so alarm'd them by your late Arbitrary Proceedings , that I am jealous that they should rather think it their Interest to make an honourable and timely Composition with the Crown , by some considerable Benevolence , than run the Adventure to be plunder'd by your Troops , and sequester'd by your Committees . I do allow your indisputable Maxim , that the Poverty of the King is the interest of a Presbyterian House of Commons : And you have wisely ordain'd , that though the King should be reduc'd to the straitest Exigencies , yet he must not so much as ask an Alms , and if Necessity should teach him the common impudence to be a Beggar , yet you have politicly resolved , that it shall be a Crime to be charitable to the Crown , without the leave of the Commons , those High Almoners of England . But Brother , the Mischief is , that you did once contribute your Money and Plate to carry on the War against the King , without a Statute of Parliament : Now this may become an unlucky Precedent , and if ever the Cavaliers come to be considering Animals , they may chance to conclude , That they may as freely give their Gold to support the hands of Moses , as you did to make the Golden Calf of a Commonwealth : And that it were more Religion and Loyalty , in their Prince's Extremity , to contribute their money without a Parliament to preserve the King and Monarchy , than it was for you to destroy them both by an Arbitrary Contribution . Now this being the fatal Crisis of our Cause , be sure you maintain with all possible confidence , That for any one to cast in his Free-will-offerings into the Treasury or Corban of the Crown , is Will-worship and Popery , and as Antichristian a Superstition as Alms and Charity . I wonder you have so long allow'd the King that Imperial Prerogative to be the sole Lord of the Mint , it would have been a mighty Policy and Advantage , if you could have shared in that Authority , and Enacted that the Coin of England should have had the Image of the King stamp'd on one side , and the Superscription of the Common-wealth on the other . This would have been a Demonstration that he could never have had any Money without you . There is an Apocryphal passage in the Gospel , that would make us believe that Christ and St. Peter should pay Tribute to Caesar without the consent of the Sanhedrim , and should tell the Jews they were oblig'd to do so too , because the Money had the Image and Superscription of Caesar , which did suppose their subjection to him , and his intire Authority over them . And I observe that Charles the Second , in his English Coin , is stamp'd more Romano , and his Image looks like the Ancient Figure of Caesar Augustus . I wish this be not ominous . Phan. Peter's calling the King Supreme , and his Example , and Paul's Command of paying Tribute to Emperours because they are God's Ministers , and upon the account of their care in Government , does no way concern you or me ; for you know there were no Popes nor Parliaments in those dayes of Primitive Christianity . Pope . You have answer'd like an Oracle . But suppose the Cavaliers should be such Fools , as to shut their Purses till you cut them open , and keep their Money till they lose their Lands ; though they should not present their Oblations , yet the unwilling Sacrifices of our Estates which will be drawn from us by the Cords of Penal Laws , will help to inrich the Crown ; and , which is worst of all , will give the King the Advantage to answer our Clamors of Arbitrary Power , by destroying of us both according to Law. Phan. I hope to prevent all these Mischiefs in the next Session of Parliament . Pope . But I am afraid that your Elect Members have been so often Reprobated by Prorogations and Dissolutions , that they should be weary of appearing . And if ever the King , by any crafty Stratagem , procure a Cavaliering Parliament , who are Bigots for the Monarchy and Hierarchy of England , both you and I are ruin'd , and we are sure not to have one Friend in the three Estates . Such a pack of Tories would restore the Use of Convocations , and damn the Lay Committee for Religion ; they would contrive such Persian Laws that should obviate your Elections to 〈◊〉 , and cut off your Succession to the Chair . Nay , perhaps , they would Resolve to burn the Votes and Journals of the two last Houses , that your braver Affronts and oppositions to Princes , may be no Advantage or Precedent to Posterity . Phan. Sir , I know the warm Temper of my own Members , and that they have such a prurient Lust after Madam Respublica , that they have a State Priapism , and will stand as long as the Lower House is open , and they shall never want the provocatives of Aurum Potabile , for I will contribute as freely to raise a Parliament against the King , as ever I did to levy Arms against him ; for I cannot well do this without the other . Pope . Truly Brother , I begin to fear that the King will out-wit us both , with all our Cabals and Cardinals . That the Duke of York is a Romish Bigot , is not so infallibly resolv'd at Rome , as it is in Westminster . What would you say , if after all our noise the D. of Y. should declare to be no Papist , and your D. of M. prove a decoy Protestant , and that the Popery of the one , and the Compliance of the other , was onely an Intrigue to betray us both . — What 's the matter ? Phan. A little Faint , Sir. Pope . Ho' Staffiere ! fetch me quickly some Elixir Libertatis & Proprietatis . — Come , what cheer now ? Phan. This will recover me . But truly , you conjur'd up such a Formidable Apparition , that though I knew it to be but an Vmbra , yet it had such a horrid Aspect , that it almost frighted me into a Deliquium . Pope . I wish it may be onely a Phantom , but what would you do if it should prove a Reality ? Phan. Why , such a Miracle of Policy might perchance work another Wonder as great as that , and convert me to Loyalty and Obedience ; but if my nature render such a Change impossible , there were no living under so great a Sham , and therefore , when the Duke of York deserts you , and the Duke of Mon forsakes me , I will take the liberty to hang my self ; and so I shall yet live and dye in an Arbitrary way , and both in Life and Death affront the Government . Pope . But what think you of sending the D. of Y. into Scotland ? Phan. I wish he were banish'd out of your Dominions and ours , and yet , I think you challenge a Jurisdiction over all the Kingdoms of the Earth , besides the Territories of Purgatory . I would you had him upon the Scala Santa at Rome , or we upon a Scaffold on Tower-hill , any where , so he were not upon the same Terra Firma . My Scottish Brethren say , that he is posted like the threatning Angel at the Gates of Eden , with a flaming Sword , that turns to North and South , and was planted there , on purpose to stop their Passage , and prevent their Return to Paradise . Pope . But do you really design to enthrone your D. of M. and ever trust that Lord of the Sun Tavern with the Chariot and Ranies of Government ? Phan. No Truly . We know the natural Sons of Princes are begotten in an Arbitrary way , against the Proceedings of Law and Property , and therefore they are commonly born with an unhappy Inclination to unlimited Government ; and it is not Empire , but Common-wealth that we are designing . But you and I must have lost our ancient Politick , if we cannot embroil one Monarchy by the divided names of two opposite Dukes . Pope . What think you of the Condition of Tangier ? In my Opinion , the King 's securing that place without your Aid , and against your Will , was a mighty instance of his Power and Policy . His gallant Fleet in the Mediterranean , his victorious Arms at Tangier , have made his name glorious in the Levant ; and I believe the Emperour of Morocco , tho one of the Heads of the Dragon , yet dare not address to him with so much Rudeness as the Tail of a House of Commons . Phan. The preserving Tangier from the Assault of the Moors , was one of the blackest Misfortunes that ever befell us ; for our Confederates in Africa , intrench'd before that Town in a very Critical Juncture ; and if they had carried the place while my House of Comets were blazing , it would have given us a brave Advantage to have storm'd the Throne ; for , then we would have clamor'd against the King , and charg'd him with the Ruine of our Levant Trade ; we would have brought the Loss of that Town into the Popish Plot , and accus'd some Romish Officers for betraying the place to Infidels . This would have so much lessen'd the King's Reputation both at home and abroad , and so much serv'd our Interest in the promoting of popular Complaints , that we could not have wish'd a happier Event : but to preserve the place and to triumph too , was so great a Disappointment , that I begin to fear , the old Prince of the Blacks will deceive us . Indeed there was a time , when we would have annex'd that Place to the Crown , for fear it should have been remov'd into the Exchequer ; but to speak San's Complement , I had rather Tangier should have been annex'd to the Crown Imperial of Morocco , than to the Crown Imperial of England . Pope . Before we part , I thing my self oblig'd to give you my Thanks for some late eminent Services . First , For your vigorous Pursuit of the excluding Bill . There were some hundreds of years from the first Date of Anno Domini , which are commonly call'd the first four Centuries , when you and I had not a Being in the World. In those days , the Plain Christians kept themselves to the old fashion'd Modes of Primitive Christianity , and observ'd the meaner Habits of Meekness , Humility , and Patience , with a tame Subjection to secular Powers ; and tho sometimes they had the Command of Forts , and Castles , and valiant Armies , yet they were so silly as to truckle to a Pagan Successor , and suffer him to ascend the Throne without any Affront or Disturbance . But you and I have learn'd braver Principles , and taught the World , that Dominion is founded in Grace , that is , in your Favour and Mine . Now , if , like these Primitive Fools , you had left the Throne to the Right and Descent of Law and Nature , and to the quiet disposure of Providence , then I am confident , if the Duke had surviv'd the King , that he would never have render'd his short Reign uneasie , by removing the Boundaries of an establish'd Religion and Government , but would have thought himself oblig'd , in Generosity , to have been Defender of that Faith , and of that People , who had never given him the least Disquiet . I am not yet assur'd that the Duke is a Zealot in my Religion , but you do well to report him to be so , and you have taken a Course to make him one , and I thank you for that . That which next merits my Thanks is your Bill for uniting Protestants ; for , you have so ingeniously contriv'd the Project , that it will equally serve your Interest and mine ; for you only exclude the Roman Tongue , but in others allow a Confusion of Languages , and suffer every Division to enjoy their own Dialect : and yet by an Almighty Vote , resolve , that ninety and nine Divisions shall be but one single Unite , and the same Idiom . Brother , if ever you can effect this , I will grant you to be a greater Conjurer than I , and that you have out-done the mystery of Transubstantiation . This politick Stratagem would introduce so great a Confusion into the Church of England , that many wiser men would come over to Rome , and think it the better Babel of the two . In my opinion , your uniting Device does far exceed a Toleration , for that would leave the Church of England to enjoy it's distinct Order and Establishment ; but this cunning Contrivance and mystical Union , would confound the Glory and Discipline of that Church , which is the greatest Envy of Rome and Geneva . I have yet no hopes to repeal the 23. but I thank you for your endeavours of repealing the 35th . of Eliz. That Fundamental , establishing Law of rank Protestant Religion . I do dispence with your observing of Queen Elizabeth's day , and the pompous burning of my Effigies , so you will but damn the Statutes of Jesabel , for that was her ancient Title among yours and mine . I hope , next Parliament , tho you meet in a new place you will pursue your old Votes and Resolutions . Phan. We call it Popery to confess an Error , and scorn the Superstition of Repentance ; we have already offended beyond the hopes of Oblivion , and have no other method to secure our Indemnity , but by proceeding to higher Crimes . Pope . Well , dear Brother , I must leave you a while to divert your melancholy Thoughts with the pleasant Prospects of the Frescati . I have appointed a Consult with my Cardinals , about the Liberties of the Gallican Church , and the Regalities of Franee , and I will leave it to your Care , to undermine the Prelacy and Prerogatives of the Church and Monarchy of England . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A41189-e90 The Pope's Countrey-House . Villages where the Pope and Cardinals have their Country Houses .